PFT Ranks us 28th Preseason

[Fletch]

Seems like 27th/28th is about where we fall in the media outside of Buffalo.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/09/preseason-power-rankings-no-28-buffalo-bills/

The comments are funny too.

You have to love the ones that name all the crappy teams on the schedule and talk about how if we win those games we'll be 10-6 or something.

Last season we lost to Atlanta, Tampa, Cleveland, all 4-12 teams. We did beat the Fins twice though.

[SpikedLemonade]

EJ is going to have to take a huge step forward for us to get to my prediction of 7-9.

There was a lot more national optimism for this team last pre-season if I recall correctly.

[cookie G]

Bear Bryant
Vince Lombardi
Nick Saban
Bill Belichick
Josh Alper- Pro Football Talk

The Mount Rushmore of Football

[Ginger Vitis]

There was a lot more national optimism for this team last pre-season if I recall correctly.

You recall incorrectly

[better days]

You recall incorrectly

I don't think any of the National media had the Bills finishing better than 3rd in the division last year.

Spiked probably thinks that was optimism.

[Fletch]

EJ is going to have to take a huge step forward for us to get to my prediction of 7-9.

There was a lot more national optimism for this team last pre-season if I recall correctly.

Well, more is relative, but as I recall maybe a little bit more, but not much. Here there was obviously more. Expectations for Manuel were much higher and kind of what they are for Watkins now. Manuel was going to transform the offense and we finally had the QB that we'd been dreaming of. Everyone talked about how Whaley knew more than everyone else since he had to have Manuel. Those expectations didn't exist in the greater media.

I'm guessing that the biggest difference between what we read here on the forums from some, and more objective national media, is that they look past just sacks and INTs and see the bigger picture.

[coastal]

Welcome to year 15

[Fletch]

EJ is going to have to take a huge step forward for us to get to my prediction of 7-9.

There was a lot more national optimism for this team last pre-season if I recall correctly.

Not sure about optimism, but here was last year's PFT ranking, same as this year's.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/07/11/pft-preseason-power-rankings-no-28-buffalo-bills/

Here are some key excerpts from last year's that also play this year:

You can’t argue with the reasons why the team has shifted directions, but you can certainly wonder whether it will make a difference since the team’s gone through several such shifts since last making the playoffs in 1999 without much success.


While Spiller, Johnson, Byrd and the defensive linemen give the Bills a strong core, there’s not enough supporting parts to expect them to make a serious run at the playoffs this season unless Manuel is the latest rookie quarterback to take the league by storm.


The good news is that there appears to be some real direction with the team as opposed to former General Manager Buddy Nix talking about the need for a franchise quarterback less than a year after paying Fitzpatrick like one. More aggressiveness on both sides of the ball should help to build an identity that the Bills can use to climb the ladder in the AFC.


Get a couple of rungs out of the way this season and that climb will be easier in the years to come.


There are no more "supporting parts" than there were last year at this point. As with Fitzpatrick the team has seemed to try to stuff Manuel in as a franchise QB by taking a huge risk on him, this time with draft picks not money, but also with no better results. Not sure they got many "rungs out of the way," but risking next year's 1st rounder on Watkins could derail any rebuilding effort.


ESPN had us at 30th last preseason according to this. http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/6086/power-rankings-no-25-buffalo-bills-4

[Fletch]

Welcome to year 15

and counting and hoping for a new owner soon.

[better days]

Welcome to year 15

Actually this will be year ONE.

The first year with the new owner.

[Uncle Jesse]

The reality is that losing Alonso really only alters out win projection by 1/3 of a win. It's really not as drastic as people think, so that shouldn't have a major impact on where we are ranked/projected. Aaron Schatz of Football outsiders laid that out pretty clearly.

[jills]

EJ is going to have to take a huge step forward for us to get to my prediction of 7-9.

There was a lot more national optimism for this team last pre-season if I recall correctly.

I remember a lot of optimism on this board, Marrone was a great offensive mind and he was going to take this offense to next level, Manuel is the best QB because this FO wanted him, etc.

New HC, OC, DC, QB, great draft picks = playoffs! That was the rationale back in 2013.

[better days]

I remember a lot of optimism on this board, Marrone was a great offensive mind and he was going to take this offense to next level, Manuel is the best QB because this FO wanted him, etc.

New HC, OC, DC, QB, great draft picks = playoffs! That was the rationale back in 2013.

Well, I am accused of being a HOMER, but I was not high on Marrone or EJ.

I did think with some good luck the Bills could make the playoffs, but the luck they had was all bad.

[bleve]

I don't pretend to be a GM wannabe, but last year with all the new coaches/schemes, and rookie QB I didn't expect much.

I think last season was marred by bad offensive play calling, inconsistent QB play, and inability to stop the run.

This year, talent aside, hopefully experience alone will add a couple extra wins.

We've got Hackett with a years experience, and also help in a "Senior Offensive Assistant", and an official QB coach which will help the offense.

EJ, while still a big question mark, has had his first full year of NFL offseason and should see at least moderate improvement.

And we have a Defensive coordinator known for stopping the run. I don't know if there will be an improvement, the the issue mainly was the offense.

I think we'll "be in the conversation" in December, maybe pushing .500

[better days]

I think both Whaley & Marrone have their jobs on the line this season.

Watkins has to play like a player worthy of two first round picks for Whaley to keep his job.

The Bills have to win at least 8 games minimum for Marrone to keep his.

[Night Train]

I think both Whaley & Marrone have their jobs on the line this season.

Watkins has to play like a player worthy of two first round picks for Whaley to keep his job.

The Bills have to win at least 8 games minimum for Marrone to keep his.


Don't know about that. Normal circumstances don't apply, with a pending sale and new owner.

If Pegula takes over, he won't change anything for a year or 2. He extended the complete disaster Darcy, for God's sake. If the the missing piece is determined to be QB ( if Manuel fails ), then why blow up everything when only QB needs to be redone. I see good depth at most positions now outside of QB and we all know how key the QB play is.

[better days]

Don't know about that. Normal circumstances don't apply, with a pending sale and new owner.

If Pegula takes over, he won't change anything for a year or 2. He extended the complete disaster Darcy, for God's sake. If the the missing piece is determined to be QB ( if Manuel fails ), then why blow up everything when only QB needs to be redone. I see good depth at most positions now outside of QB and we all know how key the QB play is.

Well, I would hope Pegula learned from his mistakes with the Sabres.

I think there is enough talent on this team to win 8 games even if EJ does not play great.

They could have won 8 games last year but for a few plays.

And if Watkins is a bust, then it would show Whaley does not know what he is doing.

I do think the Bills will win at least 8 games & I think Watkins will be a big reason they do.

[swiper]

Whaley and Marrone have their fortunes linked to the success or failure of their 2013 first round draft pick and his production this season.

[Mike]

Well, I am accused of being a HOMER, but I was not high on Marrone or EJ.

I did think with some good luck the Bills could make the playoffs, but the luck they had was all bad.

Maybe not by the end of the season...
But in the beginning you were very defensive...

You expected a 9-7 to 10-6 type season and addition through subtraction and a clear improvemt over previous HC & QB.

You said that if Bills don't finish better than previous year you would no longer back Marrone and when they failed to do just that, you blamed injuries.

At the end of the day you used all the twisted logic and what if scenarious to justify your stance. And what were those justifications: injuries, rookie HC & QB, etc.... Precisely the same reason why Realists predicted the team would struggle 9 months prior.

In effect at the end of the season you used the Realist argument to justify your position and still think your right.

Lastly, you predicted the Bills would win between 6-10 games, which in essence is meaningless. It's talking out of both sides of your mouth.


Your track record was so awful last year (predicted demise of Pats, miss predicted Jets & Dols, etc) someone on here should just bet the opposite of what you say.

[better days]

Maybe not by the end of the season...
But in the beginning you were very defensive...

You expected a 9-7 to 10-6 type season and addition through subtraction and a clear improvemt over previous HC & QB.

You said that if Bills don't finish better than previous year you would no longer back Marrone and when they failed to do just that, you blamed injuries.

At the end of the day you used all the twisted logic and what if scenarious to justify your stance. And what were those justifications: injuries, rookie HC & QB, etc.... Precisely the same reason why Realists predicted the team would struggle 9 months prior.

In effect at the end of the season you used the Realist argument to justify your position and still think your right.

Lastly, you predicted the Bills would win between 6-10 games, which in essence is meaningless. It's talking out of both sides of your mouth.


Your track record was so awful last year (predicted demise of Pats, miss predicted Jets & Dols, etc) someone on here should just bet the opposite of what you say.

From the very begining I said Marrone had to win at least 6 games or he should be fired.

The Bills did win 6 games so he deserves another year.

It is a small margin between 6 & 10 wins a few plays here & there, an injured team vs a healthy team.

If the Bills don't suffer any more major injuries this year, I expect them to win at least 8 games.

If they don't, I would want Marrone fired.

[swiper]

Actually this will be year ONE.

The first year with the new owner.

I believe he was referring to suckage, not ownership.

[better days]

I believe he was referring to suckage, not ownership.

Well, everything from the past is on Ralph, not the new owner.

[BertSquirtgum]

PFT is worse than getting a hot chick in bed and finding out she has a hairy ass crack.

[swiper]

PFT is worse than getting a hot chick in bed and finding out she has a hairy ass crack.

:lol::spanku::moon::poop:

[coastal]

Well, everything from the past is on Ralph, not the new owner.
Troll level 9

[better days]

Troll level 9

Yeah you are along with your other alt user names you post under.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Well, more is relative, but as I recall maybe a little bit more, but not much. Here there was obviously more. Expectations for Manuel were much higher and kind of what they are for Watkins now. Manuel was going to transform the offense and we finally had the QB that we'd been dreaming of. Everyone talked about how Whaley knew more than everyone else since he had to have Manuel. Those expectations didn't exist in the greater media.

I'm guessing that the biggest difference between what we read here on the forums from some, and more objective national media, is that they look past just sacks and INTs and see the bigger picture.

This is patently false. It was almost unanimous in Buffalo that he was a project (or that he had no chance). I don't recall anyone ever saying that he would immediately make this team a competitor or anyone talk even close as highly as they do about Watkins. If anyone did, they were an insanely tiny minority.

I don't understand why people around here feel the need paint every argument like it is tiny little them alone fighting the good fight for truth and justice surrounded by fanboy idiots who never listen to your wisdom. Let the facts speak for themselves.

[coastal]

Yeah you are along with your other alt user names you post under.
Name one gibby.

[Fletch]

We've got Hackett with a years experience, and also help in a "Senior Offensive Assistant", and an official QB coach which will help the offense.

Everyone talks about Downing like he coached Peyton Manning to greatness. He was let go in Detroit because Stafford, who's a whole lot better than Manuel, regressed and did not improve under Downing. Before that he coached as a defensive assistant in St. Louis and has no other relevant experience. Sounds exactly like the kind of hire that we usually make, but there's far more uncertainty in his hiring than there is expectation for him to turn Manuel in the right direction and have him improve. Talk is nice, but he has no proven track record of mentoring any QB to greatness. Many people are now saying that Stafford's on thin ice in Detroit and to date he's only had Downing coaching him.

As to Hackett, one year of experience? He's going to need more than that given how he coached last season. He was light on experience when he got here and his performance last season hardly validated Marrone's having picked him as his OC, instead it has come across as more of a comfort pick for Marrone in having one of his buddies close by. Typical for us. I think that Hackett's even more on ice than either Whaley or Marrone. I don't see any of them having the fans' support by the end of the season.

[Fletch]

This is patently false. It was almost unanimous in Buffalo that he was a project (or that he had no chance). I don't recall anyone ever saying that he would immediately make this team a competitor or anyone talk even close as highly as they do about Watkins. If anyone did, they were an insanely tiny minority.

I was talking about here in the forums. Go back and find the threads. The prevailing opinion was that Whaley was some kind of genius that saw more than other people and that his having reached for Manuel would pay off. Everyone was talking about how Whaley was the hottest GM since Polian last year, the newest and hottest up-and-coming GM. When I said "expectations" I didn't necessarily mean limited to his rookie season, I meant overall, and yes, the prevailing opinion right here was that Manuel would eventually be our QB of the future, so no, it is not patently false. The hopes of the short and future terms of this franchise were high in Manuel. Three injuries/surgeries and a dozen ridiculously inconsistent games later and all of a sudden that optimism has fled.

Did we have reason to think that Manuel might have injury issues? Yes, but it was ignored and it wasn't going to materialize here. Now the talk already is that if he gets hurt again we'll need another QB for the long-term.

Did we have reason to think that Manuel's skills, or lack thereof, would be an issue in the NFL? Yes, but it was ignored because everyone thought that Whaley had this incredible foresight and knew better than GMs and other talent people around the NFL.


I don't understand why people around here feel the need paint every argument like it is tiny little them alone fighting the good fight for truth and justice surrounded by fanboy idiots who never listen to your wisdom. Let the facts speak for themselves.

I don't understand why people here always try to make these discussions personal by issuing statements like this of yours.

I also don't understand why people that think something one year all of a sudden claim that they were on board with the opposite reality when it finally sets in after they've been proven wrong, yet simultaneously expect to have any credibility left after years of doing that.

Either way, Whaley was lauded last year for trading down to get Manuel, despite the consensus outside of Buffalo, and for sure outside of this forum, that it was a major reach.

The same this season with Watkins. While few, me being among those few I might add, challenge whether or not Watkins' skillset and collegiate play will translate well to the NFL, most are in consensus that expecting Watkins to propel this team into the playoffs is a reach and that trading next year's 1st rounder was also not a judicious use of that pick. If we end up 4-12 that will be a PR disaster for Whaley and imo terminate his GM career. There won't be any reason to keep him around for the 2015 draft at that point, in fact he'll only risk doing more damage.

This time next season I expect people to be talking about Watkins as we are about Manuel and Spiller. "What happened?" "Why isn't he ..." "Why can't he ..." But the reason will be because we don't consistently play passing defenses the equivalent of the worst 60 pass defenses in the NCAA every week and to the contrary, that we play more like defenses with talent that was among the top-20 defenses in the NCAA and even better, to the extent that this notion that one player is going to continually shake an entire defense with his moves appears to be as ridiculous as it was with Spiller, who just coincidentally played under the same coach in the same or very similar system despite the ACC having been better during Spiller's tenure at Clemson.

[stuckincincy]

The same this season with Watkins. While few, me being among those few I might add, challenge whether or not Watkins' skillset and collegiate play will translate well to the NFL, most are in consensus that expecting Watkins to propel this team into the playoffs is a reach and that trading next year's 1st rounder was also not a judicious use of that pick. If we end up 4-12 that will be a PR disaster for Whaley and imo terminate his GM career. There won't be any reason to keep him around for the 2015 draft at that point, in fact he'll only risk doing more damage.

This time next season I expect people to be talking about Watkins as we are about Manuel and Spiller. "What happened?" "Why isn't he ..." "Why can't he ..." But the reason will be because we don't consistently play passing defenses the equivalent of the worst 60 pass defenses in the NCAA every week and to the contrary, that we play more like defenses with talent that was among the top-20 defenses in the NCAA and even better, to the extent that this notion that one player is going to continually shake an entire defense with his moves appears to be as ridiculous as it was with Spiller, who just coincidentally played under the same coach in the same or very similar system despite the ACC having been better during Spiller's tenure at Clemson.

Watkins got praise from a lot of teams, coaches, and pundits. I've never seen him play, so I'll reserve judgement about his skills and if they will prove useful in the NFL.

I do have an objection to what they gave up to obtain him. A high price, IMO, especially in a draft class where the same teams, coaches, and pundits remarked that the WR crop was pretty good.

[better days]

Watkins got praise from a lot of teams, coaches, and pundits. I've never seen him play, so I'll reserve judgement about his skills and if they will prove useful in the NFL.

I do have an objection to what they gave up to obtain him. A high price, IMO, especially in a draft class where the same teams, coaches, and pundits remarked that the WR crop was pretty good.

While the WR class was talked of as good, there was no controversy about who the BEST WR in the draft was.

EVERYONE had Watkins as the BEST WR in the draft.

[stuckincincy]

While the WR class was talked of as good, there was no controversy about who the BEST WR in the draft was.

EVERYONE had Watkins as the BEST WR in the draft.

Do you think he's worth - or will be worth the giving up next years' #1 to move up 5 spots to get him?

[better days]

Do you think he's worth - or will be worth the giving up next years' #1 to move up 5 spots to get him?

I really don't know that he will be worth it.

To be worth two #1 picks IMO, he will have to be a future HOF player.

I think Whaley went all in on this draft because he knows he may not get another one.

[Fletch]

I do have an objection to what they gave up to obtain him. A high price, IMO, especially in a draft class where the same teams, coaches, and pundits remarked that the WR crop was pretty good.

Mike Evans would have been a much better choice for this team where it is now. He's also much more in that prototypical size range of the more recently drafted bigger WRs that have had so much success.

I think that Evans is going to be a monster. With his size and other skills he'll be able to compete immediately. Watkins is going to struggle as he finds out that he's not lining up against defensive players from Wake Forest, BC, Virginia, and Maryland and when he finds no more "space" than Spiller has found.

I still can't believe that we didn't draft Evans if we had to have a WR, and we could have kept our 1st rounder next season too.

[Fletch]

Do you think he's worth - or will be worth the giving up next years' #1 to move up 5 spots to get him?

The only people that lean towards believing that live in Buffalo or otherwise are Bills fans.

[better days]

Mike Evans would have been a much better choice for this team where it is now. He's also much more in that prototypical size range of the more recently drafted bigger WRs that have had so much success.

I think that Evans is going to be a monster. With his size and other skills he'll be able to compete immediately. Watkins is going to struggle as he finds out that he's not lining up against defensive players from Wake Forest, BC, Virginia, and Maryland and when he finds no more "space" than Spiller has found.

I still can't believe that we didn't draft Evans if we had to have a WR, and we could have kept our 1st rounder next season too.

As a Bucs fan I am happy the Bucs drafted Evans. The Bills & Bucs drafted the two best WR's in the draft by all accounts.

But Evans faced such power houses as Lamar, Rice & Louisiana-Monroe.

You can only play who is on the schedule.