Jeffrey Gundlach Exploring Buying Buffalo Bills

[DetDannyWilliams]

BUFFALO, NY- Doubleline Capital (http://www.doubleline.com/) founder Jeffrey Gundlach has expressed an interest in purchasing the Buffalo Bills, 2 On Your Side's Adam Benigni has learned.

Gundlach, an Amherst native, expressed interest in purchasing the Bills prior to Ralph Wilson's death (http://on.wgrz.com/1hWqV6R).
A source tells 2 On Your Side that Gundlach is interested in having former Bills quarterback Jim Kelly join his potential bid. Representatives for Kelly declined to comment on the possibility of joining Gundlach's bid.

http://www.wgrz.com/story/sports/nfl/future-of-the-bills/2014/07/09/jeffrey-gundlach-buffalo-bills/12437119/

[OpIv37]

Don't care as long as he keeps the team in the area.

[Skooby]

Is he liquid about $2 B ?

[THATHURMANATOR]

I read today he is the largest shareholder in a 50 Billion dollar company.

He probably could be if he wanted.

[trapezeus]

he is a principal on a firm that has $50BN in investments. I'm not sure its fair to say that he's the largest shareholder.

the difference between the two is that in the first statement, he's critical to the operation and seen as a key player. he may have significant amount of his wealth in investments. The second is saying that he has a large portion of the $50BN. i don't think that's the case. but i'm just guessing.

[Dr. Who]

I wonder if Mr. Gundlach or the Pegulas or Tom Golisano have talked to Fletch or Spiked or the many other individuals on this board who have determined that Buffalo is not a viable city to sustain an NFL team. We don't have the right kind of businesses to pursue stadium naming rights or to buy expensive suites. It's funny. They are wealthy people, so they probably know something about economics, but somehow they missed the memo on Buffalo.

[trapezeus]

don't forget, the doubters are also flying against what 24 of 32 owners voted for when they approved of the lease. if moving the team was a priority, the owners would have made sure that no lease was signed or that there were plenty of outclauses. especially way in advance of 2020.

[kingJofNYC]

This is the future of sports ownership. Private equity and investment funds will own most of the sports teams going forward, obviously there will be exceptions. Kelly would just be a face for a faceless organization, much like Magic is for the Dodgers.

[WagonCircler]

Articles all over the internet have his net worth at approximately $1 BIL.

I'll stick with Terry, but this wouldn't be tragic.

But I also think it's far fetched. Gundlach's total net worth is $1 BIL. Terry has almost $2 BIL in liquid assets, and he's making all the right moves.

[SpikedLemonade]

don't forget, the doubters are also flying against what 24 of 32 owners voted for when they approved of the lease. if moving the team was a priority, the owners would have made sure that no lease was signed or that there were plenty of outclauses. especially way in advance of 2020.

So the Bills ownership brings the lease to the other owners for approval and you believe there was a possibility that the other owners would reject a lease the Bills ownership was happy with?

Then you conclude that this is some sort of approval by the owners for the long-term suitability of Buffalo as a NFL location?

If a new Bills owner brings relocation to the NFL owners for approval in 2020 saying that there is not enough public funding for a new stadium in Buffalo, the NFL owners will approve that relocation.

[Dr. Who]

Pegula is the best option and I think he will end up winning the bid.

[Dr. Who]

So the Bills ownership brings the lease to the other owners for approval and you believe there was a possibility that the other owners would reject a lease the Bills ownership was happy with?

Then you conclude that this is some sort of approval by the owners for the long-term suitability of Buffalo as a NFL location?

If a new Bills owner brings relocation to the NFL owners for approval in 2020 saying that there is not enough public funding for a new stadium in Buffalo, the NFL owners will approve that relocation.

There are some potential owners who will clearly keep the Bills in Buffalo. Pegula, Golisano, Gundlach, apparently, are in that group. I think it will be relatively clear whether the new owner presents a concern about the future or not.

[better days]

So the Bills ownership brings the lease to the other owners for approval and you believe there was a possibility that the other owners would reject a lease the Bills ownership was happy with?

Then you conclude that this is some sort of approval by the owners for the long-term suitability of Buffalo as a NFL location?

If a new Bills owner brings relocation to the NFL owners for approval in 2020 saying that there is not enough public funding for a new stadium in Buffalo, the NFL owners will approve that relocation.

Maybe the other owners would approve the move or maybe they wouldn't.

There will be no way to know because the new Bills owner will not want to move the Bills in any case.

[SpikedLemonade]

Maybe the other owners would approve the move or maybe they wouldn't.

There will be no way to know because the new Bills owner will not want to move the Bills in any case.

In your view, the new owner will own the Bills for charitable purposes regardless if he makes money on his investment. This local owner in your view will own the team for nostalgia or heritage purposes primarily.

I believe even if it is a local owner, they will want to make a reasonable return on their investment and will raise prices to do so over this period leading to 2020 to test whether Bills fans are willing to pay on average as much as fans in other NFL cities to support their team before investing even more of his money into a new stadium. I think the fans will meet that test.

[better days]

In your view, the new owner will own the Bills for charitable purposes regardless if he makes money on his investment. This local owner in your view will own the team for nostalgia or heritage purposes primarily.

I believe even if it is a local owner, they will want to make a reasonable return on their investment and will raise prices to do so over this period leading to 2020 to test whether Bills fans are willing to pay on average as much as fans in other NFL cities to support their team before investing even more of his money into a new stadium. I think the fans will meet that test.

As has been said by others before, the new owner of the Bills will see a reasonable return on his investment with the Bills in BUFFALO.

[cookie G]

Articles all over the internet have his net worth at approximately $1 BIL.

I'll stick with Terry, but this wouldn't be tragic.

But I also think it's far fetched. Gundlach's total net worth is $1 BIL. Terry has almost $2 BIL in liquid assets, and he's making all the right moves.

Could be around a billion or so. I do hope people realize that when they say he has a "$50 billion" company, that doesn't mean the company is worth $50 billion, that's just what they control. It isn't his money, or the company's money. Nevertheless, he's considered a stud on Wall St.

Several years ago, CNN had a really good article on his rise to fortune and his fight with his former company, but I just looked and got a 404 error.

This is a pretty decent one though:

http://www.crossingwallstreet.com/archives/2013/04/the-mind-of-jeffrey-gundlach.html

Extremely intelligent, result driven, track record of success, blunt, considered a bully by some, and like most in that position, controversial. When he was fired from his former company, 45 of the 60 people under him followed him to his new company. The recurring theme of the article was...you know where you stand with him, for good or for bad.

A guy like that would scare the hell out of Russ.

[trapezeus]

So the Bills ownership brings the lease to the other owners for approval and you believe there was a possibility that the other owners would reject a lease the Bills ownership was happy with?

Then you conclude that this is some sort of approval by the owners for the long-term suitability of Buffalo as a NFL location?

If a new Bills owner brings relocation to the NFL owners for approval in 2020 saying that there is not enough public funding for a new stadium in Buffalo, the NFL owners will approve that relocation.

Yes, i think there is a general idea of what people want from league meetings. i don't think the bills structure something in a vacuum and then present it to the league.

i think if the bills are putting osmething in it that makes it hard for relocation and relocation is a serious thought, the owners would easily kill the deal. plus the owners already got to the end of the last lease. they don't need it if they want to move.

and that is true, at 2020, if a new owner says, "i tried, this didn't work." the league will have to approve a move. and that's a posiblity. but the league will also say, "here are your relocation budget, and if you go over, you will not be entitled to new franchise fees if we expand and you owe us the difference back." remember st louis did not get any money on carolina and jax entering the league because their move was so much more expensive than budgeted.

plus having the possible move has always kept bills fans showing up for mediocre football which helps the bottom line.

the "they are definitely moving" crowd just consistently misses key points in this. You make it seem like the only way an owner comes to terms with staying is because they are willing to sacrifice profit. and that simply isn't the case. even in the worst case scenarios pitched around here, the bills are still making money. and what the nfl is clear on is moving isn't necessarily a guarantee its a good idea. they got that in jax. just because people love football, doesn't mean they'll love your team and they wont' abandon college. that's why they don't start a team in LA.

i don't think the bills are guaranteed anything after 2020, but if the town keeps up its positive momentum, i think they have a much better case to stay than they did 5-8 years ago. and with the main people in the lead, they have monied interests in a stadium build and the revitalization of downtown. as they say, 5years is a long time in business.

[swiper]

Pegula is the best option and I think he will end up winning the bid.

Think all you want. It's really not thinking, because you don't have a clue about what's going on. No one does. It's more like hoping.

[Ed]

Could be around a billion or so. I do hope people realize that when they say he has a "$50 billion" company, that doesn't mean the company is worth $50 billion, that's just what they control. It isn't his money, or the company's money. Nevertheless, he's considered a stud on Wall St.

Several years ago, CNN had a really good article on his rise to fortune and his fight with his former company, but I just looked and got a 404 error.

This is a pretty decent one though:

http://www.crossingwallstreet.com/archives/2013/04/the-mind-of-jeffrey-gundlach.html

Extremely intelligent, result driven, track record of success, blunt, considered a bully by some, and like most in that position, controversial. When he was fired from his former company, 45 of the 60 people under him followed him to his new company. The recurring theme of the article was...you know where you stand with him, for good or for bad.

A guy like that would scare the hell out of Russ.
He's definitely an interesting individual, but I could see some of the other owners looking at him as too controversial or eccentric and voting "no" on his approval. Joining the NFL owners ultra exclusive club is a rare opportunity and they have the right to be as picky as they want with there being a number of potential suitors. I think they would be much more comfortable with someone like Pegula and would push the Trust to select his bid.

[Mr. Miyagi]

ABBOT
Anybody But BonJovi Or Trump

[Ed]

ABBOT
Anybody But BonJovi Or Trump
Or that PBR Twinkie guy.

[trapezeus]

it is interesting, are there any wall street guys with NFL teams? i just don't know. most of it seems to be old money, oil guys, original owner families, or box store founders.

it's kind of shocking that there isn't wall street money in football. am i missing someone?

[Dr. Who]

Think all you want. It's really not thinking, because you don't have a clue about what's going on. No one does. It's more like hoping.

Adam Benigni recently tweeted: "Sources continue to tell me Sabres owner Terry Pegula and wife Kim are strong candidates to win Bills bidding process." Pegula would be in the top ten in terms of wealth for NFL owners. He has a strong commitment to Buffalo and the liquidity to make the purchase. I sorta think this is thinking, but it is certainly something I am hoping for as well.

[WagonCircler]

A guy like that would scare the hell out of Russ.

A guy like that would fire Russ as soon as the ink was dry on the sale papers.

[WagonCircler]

One of the many things I like about Pegula, and that I think the other owners will like about him, is that he has the liquidity to do things that will help to increase revenue. There are many ways to do that, but none so powerful as a winning team.

Winning teams sell tickets and they sell luxury boxes. There are plenty of companies, despite what the people rooting for the Bills to leave are saying, that would re-appropriate money that they currently spend on other things (in order to entertain clients, etc.) to buy a luxury suite for a team that's not a joke every year and that plays in a new stadium.

>>> Insert lame ass "The Sabres suck" comment here <<<

The fact is, Terry has the means and the balls to do what it takes to rebuild a franchise, and he's proving it right now. And not just with the tanking. He's doing wonders for the area around the arena, which he would continue with a new stadium, partially funded by Delaware North.

The NFL values owners with liquid assets, and Pegula would be in the top 10 or better among NFL owners.

Everything is lining up just right for him to buy the Bills.

[Famous Amos]

"One of these days, maybe five years from now -- I hope it's 20 years from now -- the Bills will have to have an ownership change," Gundlach said in a followup interview with Channel 7 (http://www.wkbw.com/news/Bills-prospective-buyer-122711699.html).
"I think it would be a tragedy to have the Bills go to some random city and be called, you know, the L.A. Multitude or whatever the hell they'd call it. I want them to be the Buffalo Bills. I want Buffalo to receive a championship one of these days."
http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/07/09/sources-jeffrey-gundlach-exploring-bills-purchase-approached-jim-kelly/

He is saying the right things. Guy will probably have to collaborate with another billionaire in order to buy the Bills. He doesn't seem like he can financially compete with Pegula, Golisano, and some of the other multi billionaires. Sounds like a fan, too. I thought I'd be nervous about his relationship with Los Angeles but according to him, he wouldn't move the team.

it's interesting what he says about the team could be sold 5 years from now...is that the year when the team can break the lease for tens of millions of dollars rather than hundreds? or is it the end of the lease?

[trapezeus]

he made that quote in 2011. so he was saying it in the sense that ralph would eventually pass on and the team would need to be purchsed.

[DynaPaul]

You can safely say goodbye to Bon Jovi, Trump, AND Toronto.

PS - L.A. too!

[better days]

You can safely say goodbye to Bon Jovi, Trump, AND Toronto.

PS - L.A. too!

It looks like only one Toronto group. LA is a question, someone could try to buy the Bills to move them there.

But it looks like a number of people want to buy the Bills to keep them in Buffalo & even the Toronto group is now saying they would not move the Bills.

It sounds like there is something in the sale that forbids the team from moving aside from the lease.

[better days]

Yes, i think there is a general idea of what people want from league meetings. i don't think the bills structure something in a vacuum and then present it to the league.

i think if the bills are putting osmething in it that makes it hard for relocation and relocation is a serious thought, the owners would easily kill the deal. plus the owners already got to the end of the last lease. they don't need it if they want to move.

and that is true, at 2020, if a new owner says, "i tried, this didn't work." the league will have to approve a move. and that's a posiblity. but the league will also say, "here are your relocation budget, and if you go over, you will not be entitled to new franchise fees if we expand and you owe us the difference back." remember st louis did not get any money on carolina and jax entering the league because their move was so much more expensive than budgeted.

plus having the possible move has always kept bills fans showing up for mediocre football which helps the bottom line.

the "they are definitely moving" crowd just consistently misses key points in this. You make it seem like the only way an owner comes to terms with staying is because they are willing to sacrifice profit. and that simply isn't the case. even in the worst case scenarios pitched around here, the bills are still making money. and what the nfl is clear on is moving isn't necessarily a guarantee its a good idea. they got that in jax. just because people love football, doesn't mean they'll love your team and they wont' abandon college. that's why they don't start a team in LA.

i don't think the bills are guaranteed anything after 2020, but if the town keeps up its positive momentum, i think they have a much better case to stay than they did 5-8 years ago. and with the main people in the lead, they have monied interests in a stadium build and the revitalization of downtown. as they say, 5years is a long time in business.

I really think the Bills will move crowd underestimate the number of Bills fans around the Country that would stop watching the NFL if the Bills did move.

I think the NFL realizes the potential loss of TV viewers around the Country that are Bills fans if the Bills moved. You know, the fans that pay for the Sunday Ticket which makes the NFL a LOT of MONEY.

[YardRat]

lol...

For years people have *****ed about Ralph Wilson being cheap, only in it for the money, and padding his bank account...and now people are *****ing because any new owner is going to have to bite the bullet and run the team 'non-profit' if they keep it in Buffalo, or move it to make any money.

The funniest part is it's usually the same people.

[Fletch]

lol...

For years people have *****ed about Ralph Wilson being cheap, only in it for the money, and padding his bank account...and now people are *****ing because any new owner is going to have to bite the bullet and run the team 'non-profit' if they keep it in Buffalo, or move it to make any money.

The funniest part is it's usually the same people.

I wouldn't say that Wilson was cheap, I'd say that he was cheap in the wrong areas and spent big money in the wrong areas.

The people that he hired did this. They spent like drunken sailors, unwisely and with abandon.

[Mace]

Articles all over the internet have his net worth at approximately $1 BIL.

I'll stick with Terry, but this wouldn't be tragic.

But I also think it's far fetched. Gundlach's total net worth is $1 BIL. Terry has almost $2 BIL in liquid assets, and he's making all the right moves.

He testified in 2011 he was worth 90 million, in 2014 he may be worth a Billion, by 2017 he might be worth a dollar .47 and I don't think the NFL will much take a shine to his shenanigans.

Go Clan Pegula Go !

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

it is interesting, are there any wall street guys with NFL teams? i just don't know. most of it seems to be old money, oil guys, original owner families, or box store founders.

it's kind of shocking that there isn't wall street money in football. am i missing someone?


still rooting for Jordan Belfort to buy the team. lol

[Turf]

Let's put it this way. He'd be the leading candidate if Pegula wasn't around. But Pegula is the better choice.

[trapezeus]

He testified in 2011 he was worth 90 million, in 2014 he may be worth a Billion, by 2017 he might be worth a dollar .47 and I don't think the NFL will much take a shine to his shenanigans.

Go Clan Pegula Go !

gundlach is a bond expert. he isn't a hedge fund guy. he's made his money managing pimco bond funds to your 401k. and when they had their falling out he openned his own company.

unless i missed something, i think he provides services mainly to mainstreet and large institutional investors. he's not a speculator trying to find an edge in esoteric markets.

but turf said it best. if pegula wasn't there, he'd be the best option.

when we first heard gundlach talk about potentially buying the bills back in the day, he was saying investor group. so while i trust that in the last 4 -5 years as any one with money in stock market has done significantly better, i don't think he went from 90MM to $1BN.

[TedMock]

Gundlach was head of fixed income for TCW. Stud. Bill Gross runs the more popular Pimpco fund. They're widely considered the two best. Gross is a much bigger name and has been around a lot longer, but Gundlach had outperformed him several times.

[trapezeus]

Gundlach was head of fixed income for TCW. Stud. Bill Gross runs the more popular Pimpco fund. They're widely considered the two best. Gross is a much bigger name and has been around a lot longer, but Gundlach had outperformed him several times.

Correct. I got them mixed up.
Thanks

[Jry44]

My gut feeling is that either Pegula or Golisano will win the bid. From everything that I have read, they have each actually met with Russ Brandon to discuss the topic, which leads me to believe that there is a comfort level between the Wilson's and each potential owner in place.

[TedMock]

Correct. I got them mixed up.
Thanks

Mixed up happens to me all the time! Gundlach's also more aggressive than Gross. He's hit some homeruns on MBS's. I mention it because I'm curious as to what his net worth may be now. Still, Pegula must have the higher liquid net worth and I would still consider him the front runner. Based on nothing but my own opinion, of course.

[Mike]

I wonder if Mr. Gundlach or the Pegulas or Tom Golisano have talked to Fletch or Spiked or the many other individuals on this board who have determined that Buffalo is not a viable city to sustain an NFL team. We don't have the right kind of businesses to pursue stadium naming rights or to buy expensive suites. It's funny. They are wealthy people, so they probably know something about economics, but somehow they missed the memo on Buffalo.

It's because that memo made zero sense. The author mistook a few trees for the forest.

[Mike]

lol...

For years people have *****ed about Ralph Wilson being cheap, only in it for the money, and padding his bank account...and now people are *****ing because any new owner is going to have to bite the bullet and run the team 'non-profit' if they keep it in Buffalo, or move it to make any money.

The funniest part is it's usually the same people.

What are you talking about?
The Bills make money, good money! About $41M per year in OI which is top 9th in NFL.... And it's because of about $20M savings in player salaries.

We've been through this before but I guess you've made up your mind and you don't want the facts to confuse you.

[BertSquirtgum]

This was posted like it was new news or something??? We knew about this last year when he mentioned he wanted to buy the team. He grew up in Buffalo. I wouldn't trust anyone currently living in LA to keep the Bills in Buffalo if they bought the team.

[Skooby]

This was posted like it was new news or something??? We knew about this last year when he mentioned he wanted to buy the team. He grew up in Buffalo. I wouldn't trust anyone currently living in LA to keep the Bills in Buffalo if they bought the team.

Trusting an LA billionaire with the Bills ownership seems like Risky business, I'll take a local guy with money already committed in Buffalo.

[Mace]

gundlach is a bond expert. he isn't a hedge fund guy. he's made his money managing pimco bond funds to your 401k. and when they had their falling out he openned his own company.

unless i missed something, i think he provides services mainly to mainstreet and large institutional investors. he's not a speculator trying to find an edge in esoteric markets.

but turf said it best. if pegula wasn't there, he'd be the best option.

when we first heard gundlach talk about potentially buying the bills back in the day, he was saying investor group. so while i trust that in the last 4 -5 years as any one with money in stock market has done significantly better, i don't think he went from 90MM to $1BN.

I think it goes back to your earlier question about Wall Street guys owning teams. You have levels of speculators and terms, money made in one year can be transitory, but so can making it in 5 years....investment trends are cyclic also and tentative, sometimes over longer periods.

Gundlach himself testified he was worth 90 million in 2011, so yes, whatever billions he represents belong to an investment company, investments are transitory, and 90 million in 2011 is minor partner. My only thought is that Wall Street people appear to flock with fellow Wall Street people, transitory investment money, transitory investment via necessity, and I don't think the NFL much appreciates transitory possibility.

You mentioned bond funds, those are transitory too, when I had 401k's, I shifted them regularly to account for economy or trends between the available options. It's just the nature of investing. The NFL wants that stable big old redoubtable consistent green.

[trapezeus]

This was posted like it was new news or something??? We knew about this last year when he mentioned he wanted to buy the team. He grew up in Buffalo. I wouldn't trust anyone currently living in LA to keep the Bills in Buffalo if they bought the team.

You guys are crazy. a lot of us left buffalo and all of us love buffalo. we had different opportunities that took us different places. if i was a $3BN man and could buy the bills, i would keep them right where they are. i don't know gundlach, but i think a guy from the area loves the area as much as the rest of us.

if he was not from buffalo, yeah, i'd be worried.

that all being said, i really don't think he's relaly in the running for this.

[trapezeus]

I think it goes back to your earlier question about Wall Street guys owning teams. You have levels of speculators and terms, money made in one year can be transitory, but so can making it in 5 years....investment trends are cyclic also and tentative, sometimes over longer periods.

Gundlach himself testified he was worth 90 million in 2011, so yes, whatever billions he represents belong to an investment company, investments are transitory, and 90 million in 2011 is minor partner. My only thought is that Wall Street people appear to flock with fellow Wall Street people, transitory investment money, transitory investment via necessity, and I don't think the NFL much appreciates transitory possibility.

You mentioned bond funds, those are transitory too, when I had 401k's, I shifted them regularly to account for economy or trends between the available options. It's just the nature of investing. The NFL wants that stable big old redoubtable consistent green.


normally those stay within a few advisors...so its transitory for you, but staying within their larger family of funds. and for non 401-k money, they are quite flexible about moving around in the family, but the fees to move out can be killer.

[Fletch]

What are you talking about?
The Bills make money, good money! About $41M per year in OI which is top 9th in NFL.... And it's because of about $20M savings in player salaries.

We've been through this before but I guess you've made up your mind and you don't want the facts to confuse you.

Not according to Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mlm45ekfed/30-buffalo-bills/

$12.6M OI in 2012.

There's been so much misinformation on the profitability of the Bills. The top 75% of teams on that list of team valuations are all in much larger metro areas. Pittsburgh probably comes closest to Buffalo but even that's nearly twice the size of Buffalo's metro area population.

If buying the Bills is purely a business decision, then it's gotta be a longshot for the team to stay in the region. I think that it's going to take an owner like Golisano or Pegula, one that is interested purely in keeping the team around despite likely losing tons of money to do so, if the team is to stick around.

The state and county just put money into a sizeable stadium renovation, I don't see them offering more for a new stadium anytime soon. They're not even in a position to be able to do that.

[Fletch]

Trusting an LA billionaire with the Bills ownership seems like Risky business, I'll take a local guy with money already committed in Buffalo.

That's my thought exactly.

Golisano lives in Florida though, right? I hear ya though, he seems committed to keeping the Bills in NY. I'm sure he just lives in Florida for tax purposes, I don't blame him.

[Fletch]

You guys are crazy. a lot of us left buffalo and all of us love buffalo. we had different opportunities that took us different places. if i was a $3BN man and could buy the bills, i would keep them right where they are. i don't know gundlach, but i think a guy from the area loves the area as much as the rest of us.

if he was not from buffalo, yeah, i'd be worried.

that all being said, i really don't think he's relaly in the running for this.

Did he go to high school here? People say that he was from Buffalo, or Amherst, but when did he leave? He did his college at Dartmouth, not at Columbia or Cornell.

I mean if he left Buffalo with his family when he was 10, then I'm not so sure I see the commitment to Buffalo.

From everything I read about him he seems to be tremendously independent in his decision making. That can cut both ways.

[Mace]

normally those stay within a few advisors...so its transitory for you, but staying within their larger family of funds. and for non 401-k money, they are quite flexible about moving around in the family, but the fees to move out can be killer.

Well no, it's transitory for them too, fees are part of the margin and when you're talking those sums of money, are relative.

None of them are married to their investments or funds, nature of the beast is transitory, it has to be for any viable investment firm. "I" shifted them within families of funds on the bottom user end of the scale.

It was mentioned we are talking about Bond investors, those are either stable and slow, or volatile, it's the nature of the market. Testifying in court that you're worth 90 million in 2011, then talking big as in primary investor in an NFL team in 2014 means you aren't being conservative, you have to admit. That's not to say Gundlach isn't just simply great at it, but the nature of the beast puts it back into what the NFL would think of it in a potential owner.

I mentioned Ballmer throwing out his 2 billion in another thread, he's worth about 20 billion, that's pretty stable buffer if he wanted to blow 5 more in the eyes of the NFL. But he was worth most of it already for a decade.

I still believe the NFL wants that stable old redoubtable consistent green.

[trapezeus]

Did he go to high school here? People say that he was from Buffalo, or Amherst, but when did he leave? He did his college at Dartmouth, not at Columbia or Cornell.

I mean if he left Buffalo with his family when he was 10, then I'm not so sure I see the commitment to Buffalo.

From everything I read about him he seems to be tremendously independent in his decision making. That can cut both ways.

to me, it's crystal clear that you want the team to leave. and almost every thread you will fight any logic that contradicts your predetermined hope that the team leaves.

he has said in the same interview that he was 1. a bills fan, 2. wanted the team to stay, 3. was fromt the area.

i'm saying the average person who leaves after spending time in buffalo loves buffalo. yes, there is the offchance he hated it and wants to screw over the area and take a huge risk in putting football in LA for the 3rd time to have it fail again.

which case is more believable? never mind, i know you are going to decide that its more likely they just move. but for everyone else reading these threads, i think they would say its more likely that he's a fan of the area. that's why he's still a bills fan today. if he hated the area, the first thing you do is forget about these bad sports teams. they've done nothing for us winning wise.