Texans' Andre Johnson refuses to play for Texans, demands trade

[IlluminatusUIUC]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/texans-wr-johnson-requests-trade-161025466--nfl.html


Andre Johnson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6339/) spent months away from the team, and ultimately decided his future is not with the Houston Texans (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/hou/). The 33-year-old wide receiver requested a trade and will not report to training camp after skipping offseason workouts and minicamp, NFL Network reported Thursday. Houston Texans wide receiver Andre Johnson intends to skip the team's mandatory minicamp this week. Johnson has three years and $31.5 million in base salary left on his contract but does not want to be part of another rebuilding project. The Texans are coming off a 2-14 season.

One look at Ryan Fitzpatrick as his starting QB and the guy goes running for the door. I'm not sure they could afford him, but the Patriots have a history of trading peanuts for disgruntled veterans to see if they can wring one more good season out of them. Other than that, it seems like all the teams with big cap space are in the AFC.

[CoolBreeze]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/texans-wr-johnson-requests-trade-161025466--nfl.html



One look at Ryan Fitzpatrick as his starting QB and the guy goes running for the door. I'm not sure they could afford him, but the Patriots have a history of trading peanuts for disgruntled veterans to see if they can wring one more good season out of them. Other than that, it seems like all the teams with big cap space are in the AFC.

Oh I hope not, they did that for Moss too. I forget what they gave for him to but it wasn't much I believe. thank you for posting, nothing can be done but to pray Johnson doesn't go to NE.

[The King]

I wouldn't want to play for Bill Obrien either.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Oh I hope not, they did that for Moss too. I forget what they gave for him to but it wasn't much I believe. thank you for posting, nothing can be done but to pray Johnson doesn't go to NE.

And Ochocinco. Let's hope if it happens that Johnson turns out like him.

[feldspar]

They may regret not taking Sammy Watkins if they are forced to trade Andre Johnson.

And yeah, it would not be good if the Patriots managed to get their hands on Johnson.

[better days]

I think the Texans call his bluff.

Johnson was a very good receiver, but is past his prime.

No team is going to give the Texans anything of value for him, so why should the Texans try to trade him for next to nothing?

Johnson will have to pay about $18 Mill back to the Texans if he refuses to play this year.

[SquishDaFish]

That would give the Texans way too much dead cap money. They would need alot for him. Not going to happen

[Goobylal]

Will call his bluff. And they definitely won't be trading him to the Patriots.

[Buffalogic]

Will call his bluff. And they definitely won't be trading him to the Patriots.Why not? Reeks of Moss for fourth rounder.

[DraftBoy]

If he gets dealt, I doubt its inside the AFC.

Though if you're the Browns and you know Gordon is basically done, why not trade a couple of high picks for Johnson? Obviously you try and keep both 1st rounders but trading a 2nd and 3rd isn't such a bad idea when you have two potential top ten picks in your back pocket.

[swiper]

Texans' Andre Johnson refuses to play for Texans, demands trade

aka The Fitzpatrick effect.

[YardRat]

If he goes to the right team, he could do for them what Boldin did for Baltimore.

Anybody know exactly how much bonus money gets pushed forward if he moves?

[Parzival]

Why not? Reeks of Moss for fourth rounder.

Except for the one major difference; that was a trade with the Raiders. I really don't think anymore needs to be said.

[better days]

aka The Fitzpatrick effect.

I guess you didn't know, Fitzpatrick was a good QB & did everything the Bills asked him to do.

LOL.

[swiper]

I guess you didn't know, Fitzpatrick was a good QB & did everything the Bills asked him to do.

LOL.


I know exactly what Fitzpatrick is. And am still pining to have him over EJ Manuel. Apparently you weren't aware that he has a noodle arm and Johnson is a #1 WR who doesn't want to finish his career catching 8 yard passes.

[better days]

Why not? Reeks of Moss for fourth rounder.

A Pats* low fourth rounder that is only a few picks ahead of a fifth rounder.

Possible I guess if the Texans want to give him away.

But I think the Texans would rather have Johnson or the $18 Million he would owe them if he does not play than a low 4th rnd pick.

$18 Million is a LOT of money.

[Fletch]

I think the Texans call his bluff.

Johnson was a very good receiver, but is past his prime.

No team is going to give the Texans anything of value for him, so why should the Texans try to trade him for next to nothing?

Johnson will have to pay about $18 Mill back to the Texans if he refuses to play this year.

Yeah, he really saw a downturn last season with 1,400 yards and finishing 7th in the NFL and ahead of WRs like Desean Jackson and with Case Keenum throwing to him for half a season. Very astute observation.

Meanwhile, Jackson's 5 months older but you've argued that he's still a great RB despite the fact that WRs outlast RBs on average.

You're a trip better days.

That "past his prime" receiver will probably still put up more than anyone on this team will.

[better days]

I know exactly what Fitzpatrick is. And am still pining to have him over EJ Manuel. Apparently you weren't aware that he has a noodle arm and Johnson is a #1 WR who doesn't want to finish his career catching 8 yard passes.

Like Andre Johnson, I want nothing to do with Fitz.

But Johnson will have to put up with him for a year or pay back a whole lot of money to the Texans.

Fitz will not be the Texans QB after this year.

[Goobylal]

The reason the Pats were able to get Moss for a 4th rounder is because few teams wanted him. He was injured both years in Oakland and was a head case. Plus he probably said he'd only agree to be traded to NE, because Brady was still in his prime. AJ has been nothing but a consummate professional, came off a great year, and has several suitors. If the Pats want him, they'll have to pony up at least a 2nd rounder, and they never do that.

[Goobylal]

Like Andre Johnson, I want nothing to do with Fitz.

But Johnson will have to put up with him for a year or pay back a whole lot of money to the Texans.

Fitz will not be the Texans QB after this year.
I doubt he'll be their QB for more than a handful of games. He's a backup at best and they'd be better served going with a younger guy.

[swiper]

But Johnson will have to put up with him for a year or pay back a whole lot of money to the Texans.

Fitz will not be the Texans QB after this year.

Ok. Now tell us all something we don't already know.

[better days]

Ok. Now tell us all something we don't already know.

OK, The Texans have said they will not trade Johnson.

How is that? Read it on Pro football talk.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

OK, The Texans have said they will not trade Johnson.

How is that? Read it on Pro football talk.

Teams always say this. I think Denver publicly stated they wouldn't trade Cutler about three days before they did. I think it's a solid bet he's traded this year.

[better days]

Teams always say this. I think Denver publicly stated they wouldn't trade Cutler about three days before they did. I think it's a solid bet he's traded this year.

OK, what do you think the Texans get for him?

[swiper]

OK, The Texans have said they will not trade Johnson.

How is that? Read it on Pro football talk.

Again. Knew that before you posted it. Try again.

- - - Updated - - -


OK, what do you think the Texans get for him?

Depends on the exact circumstances, of course. But it wouldn't be difficult to see a second round pick.

[stuckincincy]

If he gets dealt, I doubt its inside the AFC.

Though if you're the Browns and you know Gordon is basically done, why not trade a couple of high picks for Johnson? Obviously you try and keep both 1st rounders but trading a 2nd and 3rd isn't such a bad idea when you have two potential top ten picks in your back pocket.

Good call.

The pundits have had a field day about the Browns' WR corps before the draft, after it, and now Gordon is in more trouble.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

OK, what do you think the Texans get for him?

I'd think a conditional 3rd, based on whether he renegotiates.

[stuckincincy]

I'd think a conditional 3rd, based on whether he renegotiates.

Sounds right, what with the rookie cap in place. My guess is that conditional contract language will become more common.

[TigerJ]

I'm just glad this didn't turn into a "Let's trade for Andre Johnson" thread. Let it remain a problem for the Texans, and whoever might look to acquire him.

[better days]

I'd think a conditional 3rd, based on whether he renegotiates.

He would have to renegotiate his contract for the Texans to even consider trading him.

If he didn't the Texans would have about a $12 Mill dead money hit against the cap.

[sudzy]

I'm just glad this didn't turn into a "Let's trade for Andre Johnson" thread.

I think most of us are smart enough to understand, if he doesn't want to play for the Texans and Fitzpatrick, he wouldn't be much more interested in playing for the Bills and Manuel.

[YardRat]

I think most of us are smart enough to understand, if he doesn't want to play for the Texans and Fitzpatrick, he wouldn't be much more interested in playing for the Bills and Manuel.

Or Cleveland and Manziel.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

He would have to renegotiate his contract for the Texans to even consider trading him.

If he didn't the Texans would have about a $12 Mill dead money hit against the cap.

True, but their roster is basically set for the year, barring cuts. If traded him, his cap hit would be split over this year and next as well, and they could afford that if they wanted to.

[better days]

True, but their roster is basically set for the year, barring cuts. If traded him, his cap hit would be split over this year and next as well, and they could afford that if they wanted to.

Well, the pick would have to be high enough to make it worthwhile.

Like I said, if Johnson refuses to play for the Texans this year, he would owe the Texans about $18 Million dollars.

If I were the owner I would take $18 Mill over a late 3rd rnd pick & a $12 Mill cap hit.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Well, the pick would have to be high enough to make it worthwhile.

Like I said, if Johnson refuses to play for the Texans this year, he would owe the Texans about $18 Million dollars.

If I were the owner I would take $18 Mill over a late 3rd rnd pick & a $12 Mill cap hit.

Where are you seeing that Johnson would owe the Texans 18 million? If he refused to show up, they could sue him for a fraction of the bonuses that he has been paid, but I don't see any source saying that would be nearly that high.

And if Johnson holds out, my understanding is that he still counts against their cap - making his $14 million "live" cap hit even worse if it continues into the season.

[better days]

Where are you seeing that Johnson would owe the Texans 18 million? If he refused to show up, they could sue him for a fraction of the bonuses that he has been paid, but I don't see any source saying that would be nearly that high.

And if Johnson holds out, my understanding is that he still counts against their cap - making his $14 million "live" cap hit even worse if it continues into the season.

I read it on profootballtalk.com if you go back a page or two, you will probably find it there.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I read it on profootballtalk.com if you go back a page or two, you will probably find it there.

I still can't find what you are referring to. The only thing I can guess whatever you read mean was aggregating all the missed game losses and holdout fines AND some fraction of his restructure bonuses into one massive lump sum which is listed as his loss if he doesn't play this year. But that doesn't mean he owes it all to the Texans, and I certainly don't think they'd be dumb enough to take the most popular player in franchise history to court over this. I stand by what I said before: I think he'll be traded, and I think he'll fetch a conditional 3rd rounder.

[better days]

I still can't find what you are referring to. The only thing I can guess whatever you read mean was aggregating all the missed game losses and holdout fines AND some fraction of his restructure bonuses into one massive lump sum which is listed as his loss if he doesn't play this year. But that doesn't mean he owes it all to the Texans, and I certainly don't think they'd be dumb enough to take the most popular player in franchise history to court over this. I stand by what I said before: I think he'll be traded, and I think he'll fetch a conditional 3rd rounder.

It is 5 or 6 pages in.

The article is titled "Andre Johnson: I don't know if I'll play for the Texans this year."

I was mistaken, If Johnson doesn't play for the Texans this year, he would not be paid the $10 Million he would have received this year & he would have to repay the Texans $8.7 Million in bonus money he received.

So a loss of $18.7 Million to Johnson if he doesn't play for the Texans this year.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

It is 5 or 6 pages in.

The article is titled "Andre Johnson: I don't know if I'll play for the Texans this year."

I was mistaken, If Johnson doesn't play for the Texans this year, he would not be paid the $10 Million he would have received this year & he would have to repay the Texans $8.7 Million in bonus money he received.

So a loss of $18.7 Million to Johnson if he doesn't play for the Texans this year.

Ok, that makes sense. I don't think it would come to that though unless both sides were absolutely determined to go to the mattresses over this.

[sudzy]

Or Cleveland and Manziel.

To be honest, there probably about ten teams that he wouldn't want to play for.

[GingerP]

And if Johnson holds out, my understanding is that he still counts against their cap - making his $14 million "live" cap hit even worse if it continues into the season.

He will continue to count on their cap, but if he misses games they will be credited cap space equivalent to what they don't pay him. They only will be charged against the cap for what they pay him.

The point is moot, though, because he won't miss games. He already sacrificed a $1M bonus tied to off-season participation (he needed to show up for 90% of voluntary work). He apparently told them he was going to report for mandatory minicamp if they gave him a chance to earn that money back. They refused, and that is when he asked to be traded.

I doubt he even misses any time in training camp, because of the high fines. Either way, he isn't going to miss games and put his high salary at risk.

[BertSquirtgum]

Who cares? This has nothing to do with the Buffalo Bills.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Who cares? This has nothing to do with the Buffalo Bills.

The Texans are on our schedule, as are some of the teams who might pursue him.

[stuckincincy]

He will continue to count on their cap, but if he misses games they will be credited cap space equivalent to what they don't pay him. They only will be charged against the cap for what they pay him.

The point is moot, though, because he won't miss games. He already sacrificed a $1M bonus tied to off-season participation (he needed to show up for 90% of voluntary work). He apparently told them he was going to report for mandatory minicamp if they gave him a chance to earn that money back. They refused, and that is when he asked to be traded.


I doubt he even misses any time in training camp, because of the high fines. Either way, he isn't going to miss games and put his high salary at risk.

Sometimes, it seems like rooting for anything connected with the NFL is like rooting for the lawyers in Jarndyce vs. Jarndyce in Dickens's Bleak House... :anvil:

[Mr. Pink]

He's not going anywhere.

He's either gonna play for the Texans or he's gonna have to retire after they continue to fine him.

[Fletch]

He's not going anywhere.

He's either gonna play for the Texans or he's gonna have to retire after they continue to fine him.

I hope he retires. He's been with the Texans for all but their inaugural season and they have managed to make the playoffs twice in those 11 seasons as wild cards, both times also losing in the divisional round.

Johnson like most players wants a shot at a ring. He's not going to get it there. The Texans should work to trade him and move on. There's been far too much uncertainty and change with them over the last couple of seasons, trying to hang onto a player that's on the downswing isn't going to help them rebuild at this point. Johnson will be 35 by the time that they're in a decent position again, at best.

They would be well served to try to trade him for a player or picks that might be useful down the road. Then again, maybe that's why the Texans are the Texans much like why we're the Bills.

[Goobylal]

I hope he retires. He's been with the Texans for all but their inaugural season and they have managed to make the playoffs twice in those 11 seasons as wild cards, both times also losing in the divisional round.

Johnson like most players wants a shot at a ring. He's not going to get it there. The Texans should work to trade him and move on. There's been far too much uncertainty and change with them over the last couple of seasons, trying to hang onto a player that's on the downswing isn't going to help them rebuild at this point. Johnson will be 35 by the time that they're in a decent position again, at best.

They would be well served to try to trade him for a player or picks that might be useful down the road. Then again, maybe that's why the Texans are the Texans much like why we're the Bills.
The cap hit would be prohibitive.

[Fletch]

The cap hit would be prohibitive.

So you think that Johnson won't retire because of a cap hit? I don't see why that would even be a remote thought on his part. That's for the Texans, he shouldn't care. Also, I think that cap hits don't count for retired players. Not sure about that, but it wouldn't make sense if it did.

Also, if that's the case then it seems to me that he has quite a bit of leverage in the situation, but from everything I've read he has none.

[Fletch]

The cap hit would be prohibitive.

Here's the best breakdown of this that I've read.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Andre-Johnsons-trade-leverage.html

Sounds like his agent really dropped the ball. No pun intended.

[Fletch]

I have a hard time believing that if the Texans really wanted to that they couldn't work something out with a team that was willing to take on AJ for three seasons to make it happen. I don't know who has cap room, but a team like Cleveland, or Baltimore are two teams that come to mind quickly as in dire need of WRs. Carolina's another after losing theirs to free agency.

Johnson's going to show up and simply put in half an effort and I can't say that I'd blame him. The team's going nowhere with whatever time he has left. He's going to be frustrated with Fitzpatrick after a few games.

[Goobylal]

So you think that Johnson won't retire because of a cap hit? I don't see why that would even be a remote thought on his part. That's for the Texans, he shouldn't care. Also, I think that cap hits don't count for retired players. Not sure about that, but it wouldn't make sense if it did.

Also, if that's the case then it seems to me that he has quite a bit of leverage in the situation, but from everything I've read he has none.
I wasn't looking at it from AJ's POV. The team can't afford to trade him. Looks like they're willing to be the worst team in the league for a 2nd straight year and use or first overall on a QB/trade down and stockpile picks if there are several good prospects.

[Fletch]

I wasn't looking at it from AJ's POV. The team can't afford to trade him. Looks like they're willing to be the worst team in the league for a 2nd straight year and use or first overall on a QB/trade down and stockpile picks if there are several good prospects.

Yeah, I don't get it. A good GM would realize that they're rebuilding and try to get something towards that rebuild for a player whose value will begin to drop precipitously.

[better days]

So you think that Johnson won't retire because of a cap hit? I don't see why that would even be a remote thought on his part. That's for the Texans, he shouldn't care. Also, I think that cap hits don't count for retired players. Not sure about that, but it wouldn't make sense if it did.

Also, if that's the case then it seems to me that he has quite a bit of leverage in the situation, but from everything I've read he has none.

I think Goobylal meant the Texans won't trade him because of the cap hit.

[better days]

Yeah, I don't get it. A good GM would realize that they're rebuilding and try to get something towards that rebuild for a player whose value will begin to drop precipitously.

If a team offered a 2nd rd pick for him, the Texans may make that trade at the end of the day, but how much value is there in a 4th rnd pick?

Not much.

[Woodman]

**** Johnson who cares?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I hope he retires. He's been with the Texans for all but their inaugural season and they have managed to make the playoffs twice in those 11 seasons as wild cards, both times also losing in the divisional round.

They did win their division twice, though they could only accomplish this once Manning was gone.


The cap hit would be prohibitive.

His "live" cap hit is nothing to sneeze at either, and if he's playing at half speed or holding out then it's not helping them.