Bills GM Whaley takes all-in rebuilding approach

[justasportsfan]

''You have equal chances of missing when you play it safe as when you try to swing for a home run,'' the Bills general manager said. ''So why not go for the home run?''



''This is a desperate franchise with desperate players and coaches to win,'' center Eric Wood said. ''I'm not using desperate in a negative way. I'm using desperate in a positive way. Desperate like: Willing to do whatever-it-takes mentality. This is probably the most positive energy I've felt since I've been here.''


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/bills-gm-whaley-takes-rebuilding-191452364--nfl.html

[Pinkerton Security]

I would HOPE the organization is desperate - to me, if they arent, then there is just a lack of desire to win.

[Fletch]

''It is our duty to do what we can to get this team into the playoffs. And I have no problem in saying that,'' Whaley said. ''That's a goal. I'm not guaranteeing it, but that's a goal.''

Sounds like he's backing off, or trying to, from his statements earlier that he believes that Watkins will propel us into the playoffs.

It's his duty to build the team using a sound strategy, not the approach that a gambling addict would use. Last year he gambled on reaching for Manuel, this year he's gambled on trading away two additional picks for Watkins.

If Watkins doesn't work out he should be fired for that. If Watkins doesn't succeed because of Manuel, and now now 1st rounded next season which will then be a high one, then he should be fired for that. I cringe at what his next gambling move will be. What, trading away our '16 and '17 1st rounders for a late 1st rounder next year.

[Fletch]

I would HOPE the organization is desperate - to me, if they arent, then there is just a lack of desire to win.

They should be focused on changing the things that have kept us in bottom-dwelling status and the league's most futile playoff status for years. They're not doing that though, they're doing the same things that got us here. Also, let's not forget, Whaley didn't just step onto this boat last season. He's been here as the top personnel guy for five years now.

[justasportsfan]

Sounds like he's backing off, or trying to, from his statements earlier that he believes that Watkins will propel us into the playoffs.



I think Watkins could be a huge factor to propel us to the playoffs, the questions is, do we have the qb to get Watkins the ball?

[OpIv37]

So his home run swing is Watkins and Brandon Spikes? Come on.

Don't get me wrong- I'm glad we have those guys. I just don't see how they get a 6-10 team to the 9-10 wins we will need to be a WC team.

[Bill Cody]

I think Watkins could be a huge factor to propel us to the playoffs, the questions is, do we have the qb to get Watkins the ball?

It really is what this is all about. Whaley's future, Marrone's future and the teams's future for the next several years are directly tied to what the answer to your question is. There are both physical and mental questions about EJ's game that are not yet answered in a satisfactory way. Unlike the "experts" on this board I remain hopeful.

[Fletch]

I think Watkins could be a huge factor to propel us to the playoffs, the questions is, do we have the qb to get Watkins the ball?

That's something that Whaley should have thought about before reaching for Manuel last season, and in making the move for Watkins this season. That's his job, it's what gets paid 7 figs to do.

I don't see it happening. This offense has lots of questionmarks to it starting with the OC. Then the QB, a young OL for which it will take time to develop chemistry. No major threat at TE. Young and inexperienced WRs that will also take time to develop chemistry, and that's if Manuel plays well. If not it's a lost cause from the beginning. A WR that they've placed far too much faith in to do the types of things as a WR that he simply did not do in college. No 3-down RB behind a rapidly aging limited use Jackson.

That combination of things doesn't strike me as a team led by an offense that's going to propel us into the playoffs anytime soon. The defense sure isn't going to do it, even if it plays like last season, or maybe I should say especially if it plays like last season.

[Fletch]

It really is what this is all about. Whaley's future, Marrone's future and the teams's future for the next several years are directly tied to what the answer to your question is. There are both physical and mental questions about EJ's game that are not yet answered in a satisfactory way. Unlike the "experts" on this board I remain hopeful.

Whether or not we're "hopeful" is meaningless. The only thing that pertains to is how we agree or disagree with one another. It has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the outcome of the season.

The pattern on message boards is that everyone is hopeful. People were just as hopeful when we hired Levy. Then again when we hired Nix and Gailey. Even last year there was a huge degree of hope, some of which has dissipated.

Hope is irrelevant. What we discuss here, or should amidst the emotional tantrums, is the basis for why people are hopeful.

Take Spikes for example. We can hope that he can cover the pass, and to a lesser extent we can hope that Spikes Lite, Preston Brown, can also cover the pass this season. But neither has done that well, so there is no basis for that hope. We can hope anyway, but hell, why not just hope that Leon Searcy plays like Ronnie Lott used to. Without any LBs that can cover the pass well, sorry, but we're just going to be hurting on passing downs, which is most plays in the NFL. Hope as we may to the contrary.

We can hope that Bryce Brown turns into Terrell Davis, but it's very unlikely to happen.

But to turn around and criticize those that try to find why we should hope for something amidst a lack of reasons why doesn't sound very honest to me.

[Bill Cody]

Whether or not we're "hopeful" is meaningless. The only thing that pertains to is how we agree or disagree with one another. It has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the outcome of the season.

The pattern on message boards is that everyone is hopeful. People were just as hopeful when we hired Levy. Then again when we hired Nix and Gailey. Even last year there was a huge degree of hope, some of which has dissipated.

Hope is irrelevant. What we discuss here, or should amidst the emotional tantrums, is the basis for why people are hopeful.

Take Spikes for example. We can hope that he can cover the pass, and to a lesser extent we can hope that Spikes Lite, Preston Brown, can also cover the pass this season. But neither has done that well, so there is no basis for that hope. We can hope anyway, but hell, why not just hope that Leon Searcy plays like Ronnie Lott used to. Without any LBs that can cover the pass well, sorry, but we're just going to be hurting on passing downs, which is most plays in the NFL. Hope as we may to the contrary.

We can hope that Bryce Brown turns into Terrell Davis, but it's very unlikely to happen.

But to turn around and criticize those that try to find why we should hope for something amidst a lack of reasons why doesn't sound very honest to me.

If that's how you want to look at it that's fine. I'm not criticizing you. Everyone's different. To me hope is the fundamental basis of fandom. It's what makes sports fun. Because truly you never know how things are going to turn out. We can agree there are issues and be concerned about any number of things. I'm not saying put your head in the sand and pretend everything's great. But hope for progress is what makes me watch. OK?

[Bill Cody]

So his home run swing is Watkins and Brandon Spikes? Come on.

Don't get me wrong- I'm glad we have those guys. I just don't see how they get a 6-10 team to the 9-10 wins we will need to be a WC team.

Manuel is the wild card. He needs to step up his game and stay on the field. It's not unfeasible. He's a raw player but he now has a bit of experience and he'll be going through his 2nd camp. If he is the player he was last year I agree with you completely.

[Ed]

So his home run swing is Watkins and Brandon Spikes? Come on.

Don't get me wrong- I'm glad we have those guys. I just don't see how they get a 6-10 team to the 9-10 wins we will need to be a WC team.
The home run reference only refers to the draft. Being aggressive/risky to get the guy you really want as opposed to just staying put and seeing who falls to you. Whaley specifically said during free agency that they weren't going to pursue big name guys, but go after what he called "dust settlers" to plug holes and add depth. His approach to free agency was basically the opposite of going for the "home run" like they did with Mario Williams.

[trapezeus]

So his home run swing is Watkins and Brandon Spikes? Come on.

Don't get me wrong- I'm glad we have those guys. I just don't see how they get a 6-10 team to the 9-10 wins we will need to be a WC team.

i've said this before, the bills were a few plays away from beinga 2-14 team as easily as they were to be a 10-6 team last year. the bills gave up the 10th least amount of points last year. the offense were ranked in the back third of scoring points. they need points. and they may need loads of points because it's not a given that hte defense can be a top 10 d in terms of points against again.

if the new line and the receiving weapons help manuel run an offense that can pick up yards on the ground first and have him throw second, they can control the clock. if they had that kind of offense last year that could take advantage of the turnovers, they could have been an 8-10 win team.

i think they need every break to go just their way for an 8-10 win team this season. and that's not a good position to be in.

this is why they play the games.

[Mr. Miyagi]

The only "desperate in a positive way" I can think of is a desperate housewife, and the only positive is for the dude who gets to boink her.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I don't have a problem with taking Manuel where he did. From a philosophical standpoint, I'd rather him get the QB he wants on a reach than take a mid-first round DB or something. We also got Alonso out of it, so that was a major bonus as well. It was just a very unlucky year to have to need to draft a QB. I don't consider that "taking a risk" as the alternative was Geno Smith.

The trading of next year's first rounder however is inexcusable and if it works out, he'll be a hero, but if it doesn't it is absolutely a fire-able offense. You don't get "props" for taking poor risks.

[trapezeus]

The only "desperate in a positive way" I can think of is a desperate housewife, and the only positive is for the dude who gets to boink her.

i get his point. when you want something bad and you are desperate, nothing is beneath you. if you aren't desperate there might be a lower breaking point. you throw in the towel a little quicker and say, "eh, maybe next time."

in football if you are exhausted with 1 minute to go and you need to win to stay alive, it's more likely your desperation lets you focus on the importance of that one play. whereas a less desperate team says, "maybe the next play. or it's not that big a deal, we have 2 more games."

i get what he's saying. it's just hard to know how much if fluff and how much is real. we've heard this for 14 years now with results that only get worse.

[trapezeus]

I don't have a problem with taking Manuel where he did. From a philosophical standpoint, I'd rather him get the QB he wants on a reach than take a mid-first round DB or something. We also got Alonso out of it, so that was a major bonus as well. It was just a very unlucky year to have to need to draft a QB. I don't consider that "taking a risk" as the alternative was Geno Smith.

The trading of next year's first rounder however is inexcusable and if it works out, he'll be a hero, but if it doesn't it is absolutely a fire-able offense. You don't get "props" for taking poor risks.

and i get the skeptism on manual. i am right there with everyone else. but no other qb from last year's class really made us look like idiots taking him. only geno and glennon played as starters last year, no? remember tackling dummy banging the drum for barkley 2 years out to only have the guy as the number 3 on a decent team? if the bills took manual and someone behind him turned out to be a superstar, i'd be more annoyed with whaley.

[Homegrown]

I'm getting desperate to get ****** , I mean that in a positive way...

[Typ0]

If the coaches wanted to swing for a home run they would fire themselves and get someone in here who wouldn't pussy foot around our lame ass QB situation.

[Fletch]

If that's how you want to look at it that's fine. I'm not criticizing you. Everyone's different. To me hope is the fundamental basis of fandom. It's what makes sports fun. Because truly you never know how things are going to turn out. We can agree there are issues and be concerned about any number of things. I'm not saying put your head in the sand and pretend everything's great. But hope for progress is what makes me watch. OK?

Hope means different things to different people. I hope that the organization fires its front office at some point. Some might claim that that's unrealistic, but I think there's more hope for that than there is for creating a playoff caliber team under that front office.

What we discuss here is why or why not progress was made. I don't think that progress was made. No matter how anyone looks at it, if progress was made, it wasn't that much.

[Fletch]

i've said this before, the bills were a few plays away from beinga 2-14 team as easily as they were to be a 10-6 team last year.

Seems like that's said every season, so how come we never "randomly" hit that 10-6 mark?

[Fletch]

I don't have a problem with taking Manuel where he did. From a philosophical standpoint, I'd rather him get the QB he wants on a reach than take a mid-first round DB or something. We also got Alonso out of it, so that was a major bonus as well. It was just a very unlucky year to have to need to draft a QB. I don't consider that "taking a risk" as the alternative was Geno Smith.

The trading of next year's first rounder however is inexcusable and if it works out, he'll be a hero, but if it doesn't it is absolutely a fire-able offense. You don't get "props" for taking poor risks.

Yeah, if we made the playoffs based on offseason props we'd be in good shape.

[Ed]

Seems like that's said every season, so how come we never "randomly" hit that 10-6 mark?
Probably the same reason they never hit the 2-14 mark. If you play a bunch of close games, breaks go both ways and you usually end up somewhere in between.

[stuckincincy]

Probably the same reason they never hit the 2-14 mark. If you play a bunch of close games, breaks go both ways and you usually end up somewhere in between.

So true. An inch here and there, the bounce of the oval ball. CLE had the luck in 2007, finishing 10 and 6. The NFL big mucks said hurrah! at last! the new Browns are back!, scheduled them for a fistful of prime time appearances and they ended up 4 and 12 in '08.

[Fletch]

Probably the same reason they never hit the 2-14 mark. If you play a bunch of close games, breaks go both ways and you usually end up somewhere in between.

The only problem with that argument is that we have finished 4-12, but never better than 6-10 the last four seasons. Seems to me that if we're that close to 10-6 we'd get a little closer than 6-10 at some point.

[Bill Cody]

The only problem with that argument is that we have finished 4-12, but never better than 6-10 the last four seasons. Seems to me that if we're that close to 10-6 we'd get a little closer than 6-10 at some point.

If your QB play is mediocre or worse, 6 games may be the ceiling.

[Bill Cody]

Hope means different things to different people. I hope that the organization fires its front office at some point. Some might claim that that's unrealistic, but I think there's more hope for that than there is for creating a playoff caliber team under that front office.

What we discuss here is why or why not progress was made. I don't think that progress was made. No matter how anyone looks at it, if progress was made, it wasn't that much.

Thanks for the opinion but that's all it is. I think the swing on how Manuel does is at least 3 games. Neither you nor anyone else really knows what progress if any he will make. A giant step gets us to 10-6. Little to no progress is 6-10 to 7-9. If he really sucks or is hurt you could be talking 4-12. Am I being over simplistic? I really don't think I am.

[trapezeus]

The only problem with that argument is that we have finished 4-12, but never better than 6-10 the last four seasons. Seems to me that if we're that close to 10-6 we'd get a little closer than 6-10 at some point.

i'm not saying we've historically had that break of being better and could have squeaked out more wins. The bills lost and won some close games last year. if they got all the breaks, 10-6 if they didnt get any 2-14.

i've always said the jauron years the bills were an over acheiving 7-9 team. they routinely deserved to be a 3-4 win team and he'd squeak out a few at the end. with the exception when he won the first 4 in 2008.

Gailey's teams looked squarely like 6-10 teams. the 2012 team had me excited at the good start, i thought cerebral fitzy was going to know when to dial it back.

[Ed]

The only problem with that argument is that we have finished 4-12, but never better than 6-10 the last four seasons. Seems to me that if we're that close to 10-6 we'd get a little closer than 6-10 at some point.
Well in that one 4-12 season four years ago we weren't anywhere close to being a 10-6 team. For the last three years we've been a 6-10 team, putting us as close to being a 2 win team as a 10 win team. But we haven't been good enough or bad enough to be either. I don't think anyone has ever thought that this team has been close to a 10 win team every single year during this 14 year playoff drought. We've consistently been a below average team during that time with a couple 3 and 4 win seasons, a couple 8 and 9 win seasons and everything else in between. We've never been a 2 win team and never been a 10 win team, but we've come equally close to being both. This teams average wins per season during the last 14 years is 6.3.

[k-oneputt]

A qb here a qb there. There is your difference between 6 wins and 10 wins because the rest of this team is good enough.

I wil say Whaley, Marone, and Russ have some big balls going all in on EJ.

With new owner coming their fate is tied to EJ. Who scouted this guy ???????