If we could trade CJ for a 1st pick next year, would it be worth it ?

[Skooby]

CJ's contract is expiring & if something easy was going to be done it would have already. So is getting a functional player now & a first round pick next year be worth it ? He's sorta been a mild bust for a top ten pick & I wouldn't call his production worth us not getting a new opportunity in the draft next year, so wouldn't it be like trading him for Sammy & our 4th round pick next year ?

I love Spiller but not his production for the team & I think we could probably pick up another player for our O-line or a LB as well on a well from stocked team that's contending.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

YES

[Skooby]

This is might add to the intrigue, where's there smoke....


Jason La Canfora is reporting don't be surprised if CJ is traded in the next month.

[ICRockets]

We wouldn't get a player AND a 1st round pick for CJ, but I'd take a 1st rounder, yes.

[jamze132]

I doubt we'll get a 1st.

But if so, maybe we could get our top 5 pick back?

[buftex]

Sure, getting a first rounder is appealing (as unlikely as that is), but a part of me really wants to see how this offense functions with all the weapons they have in training camp. I would rather see Spiller extended than traded...but I realize, too, the move to pick up Bryce Brown was very likely made with some future roster maneuvers in mind.

If Freddie and CJ are both free agents at the end of the season, it is hard to imagine the Bills re-signing both of them, with Brown and his modest contract. Depending on the kind of season Freddie has, you would imagine that he would want to re-sign with the Bills, and wouldn't likely command top dollar. CJ is another case. Say has a "pretty good" but not terrific season like he did in 2013... he would still likely make some major dollars in free agency. He is young, lightly used, and I have no doubt there are a dozen OC's in the NFL who think they could use him a lot more effectively than he has been used in Buffalo.

[GingerP]

The Eagles already looked into trading for him earlier this year before they got Darren Sproles, and the Bills showed no inclination to deal him. I don't even think it got to the point of an offer. I suppose the Bills have acquired Brown since then.

I doubt they would get a 1st, considering the depressed RB market and how poorly the Trent Richardson trade went for Indy. I don't see backs as being as valued an asset. A guy like Spiller likely is looked at as best in a rotation, adding a big-play element to a team (but not a feature back).

I just don't see it, I think the Bills hold onto him. I know they have some depth at RB, but given FJ's age and injury history I'd hold onto him. I guess if you could say he would return a 1st I'd do it, but that is a pipe dream.

[Fletch]

Some of you must think that Jackson's going to play for a few more years. I doubt that they even extend him after the season, I suspect that they might for one season simply to keep him around, but let's first see him make it through this season without an injury and playing even average football.

He's the oldest RB in the league right now. He'll be 34 next season. The market for 34-year old RBs is almost nonexistent.

As to CJ, if the team had planned on trading him it should be now. You can't trade a free agent. I suspect that they're waiting to see how he plays to see what kind of extension to offer him and to use that as leverage to get a good season out of him in Whaley's promised playoffs year.

Otherwise, put yourself on some other team, you going to trade a 1st round pick for CJ?

[Mr. Miyagi]

What GingerP said.

1. We're never getting a 1st rounder for him.
2. We're not interested in trading him.

[Fletch]

What GingerP said.

1. We're never getting a 1st rounder for him.
2. We're not interested in trading him.

Well yeah, to state the obvious. He's not worth a 2nd-rounder now either without a long-term contract.

Clearly the team isn't interested in trading him because of their promise to make the playoffs, as ridiculous as that is given the circumstances. Then again, they traded Stevie and if they were serious about this playoff challenge then that was one of the dumbest things that they could have done. Watkins as a rookie, even if KneeJ is on the field for 16 games and manages to play average football, is not going to lead this team into the playoffs.

Also, imo Jackson's downturn in play is going to be heavily felt this season.

[Jan Reimers]

We can't keep trading away our key players for something shiny next year. Let's see what we can do this year with CJ, Sammy and the rest of our high powered RB and WR corps, and let next year take care of itself. CJ - when healthy - can be an offensive force who can turn games around all by himself.

With a better supporting cast on both offense and defense, CJ just might lead us to the Promised Land of playoff football.

[buftex]

Did Whaley really promise a playoff birth this season? Did I miss that?

[sudzy]

What is this team best at. Turning former 1st round pick into future 4th round pick.

[OLDSRIP]

I don't see getting a first round pick for CJ.

The op called him a mild bust. Would you trade a first round pick for a mild bust?

if he has a season like 2 years ago again this year. Then you could probably come close.

If he has a killer fist few games this year his value can go up for a in season trade.

[stuckincincy]

What is this team best at. Turning former 1st round pick into future 4th round pick.


Ouch! :bullseye:

[YardRat]

If somebody was willing to give up a first, I'd pull the trigger. For reasons others have already pointed out, I think it's highly unlikely that will happen.

[GreedoII]

Perfect fit in NO in my opinion. a low 1st rounder perhaps

[Novacane]

Since he's not worth that yes I'd do it.

[DraftBoy]

I'm with Jan on this, you don't continue to trade away assets for the future if you think the team you have is good enough to make a run at the postseason.

[Homegrown]

CJ's contract is expiring .... So is getting a functional player now & a first round pick next year be worth it ? He's sorta been a mild bust

An other team is going to trade a "functional player" and a 1st round pick for a player who is a "mild bust" with an expiring contract? ...Lets also trade TJGraham to the same team for a "functional" player and a 3rd rounder while were at it ...

[SpikedLemonade]

I would trade him for a 2nd round pick.

There is going to be a wide divide between what Spiller thinks he is worth contract wise and what the Bills think he is worth.

[chris66]

CJ's contract is expiring & if something easy was going to be done it would have already. So is getting a functional player now & a first round pick next year be worth it ? He's sorta been a mild bust for a top ten pick & I wouldn't call his production worth us not getting a new opportunity in the draft next year, so wouldn't it be like trading him for Sammy & our 4th round pick next year ?

I love Spiller but not his production for the team & I think we could probably pick up another player for our O-line or a LB as well on a well from stocked team that's contending.
dumbest thing to do in the new nfl is to draft a rb in the first. The second thing is to give a rb a 2nd contract

[swiper]

I'm with Jan on this, you don't continue to trade away assets for the future if you think the team you have is good enough to make a run at the postseason.

I think the point really is that others around the league probably think more of Spiller than the Bills do at this point. So the suggestion is to dump him now while his perceived value is high and the feeling is that the Bills RBs are a strong point and likely could survive without Spiller.

[swiper]

dumbest thing to do in the new nfl is to draft a rb in the first. The second thing is to give a rb a 2nd contract

Buddy Nix is that you?

[stuckincincy]

dumbest thing to do in the new nfl is to draft a rb in the first. The second thing is to give a rb a 2nd contract

Re 2nd contract...Adrian Peterson and Jamaal Charles come to mind.

[Skooby]

Perfect fit in NO in my opinion. a low 1st rounder perhaps

Exactly what I was thinking, they really could use him there.

[SpikedLemonade]

Re 2nd contract...Adrian Peterson and Jamaal Charles come to mind.

Yet in that sentence, Spiller doesn't.

[stuckincincy]

Yet in that sentence, Spiller doesn't.

That's another thing. The poster said signing any rb to a 2dn contract was dumb.

IMO, for this season, dumping Spiller would be dumb, unless it was a very advantageous offer. Spiller is not without decent skill - what team doesn't game plan against him? On the bench is Fred (with a leg injury history), and after that, folks with "promise."

Whether or not BUF will or will not re-sign him is something in the future.

[swiper]

Yet in that sentence, Spiller doesn't.

He still has something to prove in my mind.

[DraftBoy]

I think the point really is that others around the league probably think more of Spiller than the Bills do at this point. So the suggestion is to dump him now while his perceived value is high and the feeling is that the Bills RBs are a strong point and likely could survive without Spiller.

The perceived value by other teams is based on nothing more than a rumor of interest in a deal. You don't know if we're getting high value or low value on Spiller so I reject the premise of your point.

[OLDSRIP]

I think the point really is that others around the league probably think more of Spiller than the Bills do at this point. So the suggestion is to dump him now while his perceived value is high and the feeling is that the Bills RBs are a strong point and likely could survive without Spiller.

Serious question,

How did you come to determine that other around the league think more of Spiller than the Bills do?

i wouldn't have any idea how to gauge that without talking to many other GM's around the league.

[BertSquirtgum]

If a team was willing to trade away their first round pick next year for CJ I would do that trade in a heart beat if I were the Bills. CJ has no vision.

[TacklingDummy]

Who is stupid enough to give us a 1st?

[Fletch]

Who is stupid enough to give us a 1st?

Maybe Dan Snyder would.

[Fletch]

Serious question,

How did you come to determine that other around the league think more of Spiller than the Bills do?

i wouldn't have any idea how to gauge that without talking to many other GM's around the league.

That's the beautty of the forum, it's astonishing how people know things.

They know that, they know what's in the trust despite it having been reported that the info isn't even out yet to non-bidding parties.

They know how Sammy played at Clemson because of all the teams in college last year they watched Clemson and paid particular attention to how Sammy blocked despite the notion of his being a bill was like a fart in the wind back then.

It's what makes the place fun. lol

[Fletch]

That's another thing. The poster said signing any rb to a 2dn contract was dumb.

IMO, for this season, dumping Spiller would be dumb, unless it was a very advantageous offer. Spiller is not without decent skill - what team doesn't game plan against him? On the bench is Fred (with a leg injury history), and after that, folks with "promise."

Whether or not BUF will or will not re-sign him is something in the future.

They're not going to get rid of Spiller. The move makes no sense. Whaley's all in now, and Marrone by implication and association as a head coach, to make the playoffs. Not that Spiller's the difference, but they know that trading Spiller reduces our backfield to an aging Jackson, who's hurt again by the way, and Dixon and Brown who collectively have 338 carries for 1,736 yards rushing in the NFL in 6 combined seasons with Brown posting a high of 115 for 564 two seasons ago. Together they've averaged 2 TDs a season.

Spiller's going nowhere and if he does Whaley's the next one out the door.

[Mace]

I'd trade him, sure. And I have no doubt whoever grabbed him would make him work and it would be painful.

We seem incapable of using him. If you watch when he goes out wide, no one can cover him. But we keep running him into the line and it goes sideways for nothing. When we beat people up at the line of scrimmage, or via Jackson, a contact back (we must be able to find another one), then turn him loose at the line when they are tired, he flies like the wind through gaps.

They always run him into the line, rarely send him out wide, and when we do he's wide open but too far in the progression reads. They don't beat people up a half then take advantage of of in the next, they try and wind them in the first half and plod in the second.

I always said he was a great player, terrible pick, on other boards. I like Spiller, he's not Fred Jackson, Marshawn Lynch, or Travis Henry.

He's not going anywhere. I have come to feel bad for Spiller. You'd have to be a dimwit not to be able to use him to hurt people. He's become my measure of what we might do on offense. I wait to see if we remain dimwits. Poor fool, he could have been remarkable.

Not here though, evidently. Why resign him ? He's the perfect combo (runner/receiver) for a fast no huddle. I think Hackett is oblivious too. We'll all be furious when he lights up the league somewhere else, but sure, trade him, get it out of the way and take the pain.

[Skooby]

I'd trade him, sure. And I have no doubt whoever grabbed him would make him work and it would be painful.

We seem incapable of using him. If you watch when he goes out wide, no one can cover him. But we keep running him into the line and it goes sideways for nothing. When we beat people up at the line of scrimmage, or via Jackson, a contact back (we must be able to find another one), then turn him loose at the line when they are tired, he flies like the wind through gaps.

They always run him into the line, rarely send him out wide, and when we do he's wide open but too far in the progression reads. They don't beat people up a half then take advantage of of in the next, they try and wind them in the first half and plod in the second.

I always said he was a great player, terrible pick, on other boards. I like Spiller, he's not Fred Jackson, Marshawn Lynch, or Travis Henry.

He's not going anywhere. I have come to feel bad for Spiller. You'd have to be a dimwit not to be able to use him to hurt people. He's become my measure of what we might do on offense. I wait to see if we remain dimwits. Poor fool, he could have been remarkable.

Not here though, evidently. Why resign him ? He's the perfect combo (runner/receiver) for a fast no huddle. I think Hackett is oblivious too. We'll all be furious when he lights up the league somewhere else, but sure, trade him, get it out of the way and take the pain.

He's not going to do anything that involves being physically capable of existing in the NFL, lets dream later.

[Fletch]

I'd trade him, sure. And I have no doubt whoever grabbed him would make him work and it would be painful.

We seem incapable of using him. If you watch when he goes out wide, no one can cover him. But we keep running him into the line and it goes sideways for nothing. When we beat people up at the line of scrimmage, or via Jackson, a contact back (we must be able to find another one), then turn him loose at the line when they are tired, he flies like the wind through gaps.

They always run him into the line, rarely send him out wide, and when we do he's wide open but too far in the progression reads. They don't beat people up a half then take advantage of of in the next, they try and wind them in the first half and plod in the second.

I always said he was a great player, terrible pick, on other boards. I like Spiller, he's not Fred Jackson, Marshawn Lynch, or Travis Henry.

He's not going anywhere. I have come to feel bad for Spiller. You'd have to be a dimwit not to be able to use him to hurt people. He's become my measure of what we might do on offense. I wait to see if we remain dimwits. Poor fool, he could have been remarkable.

Not here though, evidently. Why resign him ? He's the perfect combo (runner/receiver) for a fast no huddle. I think Hackett is oblivious too. We'll all be furious when he lights up the league somewhere else, but sure, trade him, get it out of the way and take the pain.

He's purely a role player and clearly not a 3-down RB. As such his value is limited. He's pretty useless on 3rd-downs specifically because he's not good in short yardage situations.

Everyone says things such as that, about him being better wide, but have you ever looked at his splits?

Here they are from last season on position of run:


<colgroup><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:6729;width:138pt" width="184"> <col style="width:48pt" span="5" width="64"> </colgroup><tbody>


Carries
Yards
YPC
Long
TD


RIGHT SIDE
55
232
4.2
46
1


LEFT SIDE
51
215
4.2
54
1


MIDDLE
67
388
5.8
77
0


LEFT SIDELINE
21
55
2.6
19
0


RIGHT SIDELINE
8
43
5.4
18
0

</tbody>

His longest run and best ypc were UTM.

That tells me that he's had some great blocking because he's not the kind of RB that will get you those kinds of yards on his own as you implied.

It also means that he's not as effective on the outsides as many like to claim. He was pedestrian on Right Side and Left Side and horrible Left Sideline. He didn't have enough carries Right Sideline to make that relevant. So while he's not an UTM banger, he's done his best UTM. That's why he's not worth nearly what some like to claim, because with those kinds of holes most decent RBs will make a lot of them.

Notice too that none of his TDs were on those UTM runs, which tells us that he got run down often there refuting this notion that once he hits open space he's gone, a fallacy ever since he was drafted.

Even in 2012, 40% of his carries were UTM where he had most of his longer success. His Right/Left Sidelines were only 13% of his runs and relatively insignificant. UTM is where he had his best YPC except for Right Sideline where he ran only 14 times, having run nearly 6 times as much UTM.

So this notion that he's done much better on the wide runs is wrong. He's had great blocking at times giving him cadillac sized holes. If he were better on the outsides, which is what everyone that liked him as a pick preached, then he'd be worth more. But an UTM rusher that isn't good on 3rd downs in short-yardage situations is only worth so much. Couple that with his injury issues and he's got limited value anywhere. Again, he's a role player. Role players typically don't command the kind of money that he's likely to be asking.

What this team needs is a replacement for Jackson, a true 3-down RB. Right now that RB is not on the roster. If Jackson has any kind of significant injuries this season, we're screwed.

[Mr. Pink]

Probably get a third for Spiller.

[trapezeus]

We can't keep trading away our key players for something shiny next year. Let's see what we can do this year with CJ, Sammy and the rest of our high powered RB and WR corps, and let next year take care of itself. CJ - when healthy - can be an offensive force who can turn games around all by himself.

With a better supporting cast on both offense and defense, CJ just might lead us to the Promised Land of playoff football.


kind of agree, but i also don't think this team is built to win. their big goal this year is to make the playoffs. russ brandon and doug whaley seem to be willing to die happy if they make the playoffs this year. the other 31 teams have their sights set a little higher.

so to that extent, the question mark is squarely on the QB position. if EJ can't make a meaningful step forward (i.e. carry the team when the teamneeds him to do so, and manage games when everything else is clicking) then the bills need to get a starting qb fast to take advantage of a young line, some WR talent and a decent run game. the way to do that is to draft a QB high. and if the bills truly blow this year (if the defense doesn't transitions smoothly and EJ struggles) we could easily be looking at a top 5 pick. that would be the best time to get a QB.

so if someone is dangling 1st rounder as unlikely as that may be, the bills have to consider it as a hedge to this season. i think there is a higher likelihood that this is a really bad season than a 10-6 season.

[trapezeus]

Who is stupid enough to give us a 1st?
a team who has a lot of promise for this year and their RB goes down in practice with an injury that puts him on the season IR. That team would maybe willing to trade. and what sucks there is that we more than likely will get their latter round pick by providing spiller. at that point, you almost need to get a player and a mid round pick for it to be worth it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

How does trading our best RB help us win this year? NO THANK YOU.

[trapezeus]

see my email above.
the bills are building, but they aren't really there. if ej is good, then the team is good. if he's mediocre to poor, they will be mediocre to poor.

the bills are far enough in their development plans that if they know ej isn't the guy, then they have to have a contingency plan (i.e. get a new starting qb) in a hurry. This may involve high draft pick. otherwise, they'll need a fa qb. good teams don't let go of quality QB's.

[THATHURMANATOR]

see my email above.
the bills are building, but they aren't really there. if ej is good, then the team is good. if he's mediocre to poor, they will be mediocre to poor.

the bills are far enough in their development plans that if they know ej isn't the guy, then they have to have a contingency plan (i.e. get a new starting qb) in a hurry. This may involve high draft pick. otherwise, they'll need a fa qb. good teams don't let go of quality QB's.

Do you really think we would get a top 5 pick for Spiller? No freaking way. Anything outside that range is EJ territory.

I say re sign Spiller and get best Free Agent if EJ is terrible.

[Ingtar33]

Why not trade away CJ?

This is a very "Buffalo Bills" type move. Spend a 1st round draft pick on a position we are strong in (remember we had both Freddie AND Lynch when we drafted Spiller) ignoring better players on the board who played positions we are weak in. Trade away one probowler (lynch) to make room for Spiller... remember he was a 1st rounder too... and we got a 4th (Chris Harrison) and a 5th (Tank Carter) back for him... get a few years of so-so production... I remember saying when he was drafted he was a Reggie Bush... and if we were lucky his ceiling would be about that of Tiki Barber... right now i would take tiki in his prime over cj... that said i'd take cj over reggie bush so i guess he sorta landed in the middle between the two. NOT a first round pick, right now he's playing like a 2nd rounder.

But as i said, this is a very buffalo bills move, because the best we could hope for in trading him is a 4th rounder... maybe a 3rd... we wouldn't get a 1st for him. So turning a former 1st rounder into a 4th rounder is about what we do. The best part about that is as skeptical as I've been about CJ, I wouldn't trade him. You don't make the playoffs by creating weaknesses in your roster. And that's something else the bills specialize in...

So why not? Lets make our roster weaker... get some worthless 4th round pick out of a former 1st, and pat ourselves on the back for not spending money resigning him when his rookie contract expires.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why not trade away CJ?

This is a very "Buffalo Bills" type move. Spend a 1st round draft pick on a position we are strong in (remember we had both Freddie AND Lynch when we drafted Spiller) ignoring better players on the board who played positions we are weak in. Trade away one probowler (lynch) to make room for Spiller... remember he was a 1st rounder too... and we got a 4th (Chris Harrison) and a 5th (Tank Carter) back for him... get a few years of so-so production... I remember saying when he was drafted he was a Reggie Bush... and if we were lucky his ceiling would be about that of Tiki Barber... right now i would take tiki in his prime over cj... that said i'd take cj over reggie bush so i guess he sorta landed in the middle between the two. NOT a first round pick, right now he's playing like a 2nd rounder.

But as i said, this is a very buffalo bills move, because the best we could hope for in trading him is a 4th rounder... maybe a 3rd... we wouldn't get a 1st for him. So turning a former 1st rounder into a 4th rounder is about what we do. The best part about that is as skeptical as I've been about CJ, I wouldn't trade him. You don't make the playoffs by creating weaknesses in your roster. And that's something else the bills specialize in...

So why not? Lets make our roster weaker... get some worthless 4th round pick out of a former 1st, and pat ourselves on the back for not spending money resigning him when his rookie contract expires.

THE PERFECT POST!!!! :bf1:

[Night Train]

I'm all for keeping skill players in their contract years. Quite often, they tend to play out of their minds.

With a question mark at QB, I like having a blazing fast safety valve.

The horrid Trent Richardson trade (1st round pick) by Indy finished off any thought of receiving value back for a RB. Plus no team selected one in Round 1 in May.

" Hello Reality...sit down and have a beer... "

[Ingtar33]

I think I've posted something similar when talk came up about trading Stevie Johnson... and Marshawn Lynch...

(BTW: i want to know how indy was conned into that trade. Richardson showed he was a bust from day one... yet the colts gave up the farm for him... wild... that trade still blows my mind)

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Why not trade away CJ?

This is a very "Buffalo Bills" type move. Spend a 1st round draft pick on a position we are strong in (remember we had both Freddie AND Lynch when we drafted Spiller) ignoring better players on the board who played positions we are weak in. Trade away one probowler (lynch) to make room for Spiller... remember he was a 1st rounder too... and we got a 4th (Chris Harrison) and a 5th (Tank Carter) back for him... get a few years of so-so production... I remember saying when he was drafted he was a Reggie Bush... and if we were lucky his ceiling would be about that of Tiki Barber... right now i would take tiki in his prime over cj... that said i'd take cj over reggie bush so i guess he sorta landed in the middle between the two. NOT a first round pick, right now he's playing like a 2nd rounder.

But as i said, this is a very buffalo bills move, because the best we could hope for in trading him is a 4th rounder... maybe a 3rd... we wouldn't get a 1st for him. So turning a former 1st rounder into a 4th rounder is about what we do. The best part about that is as skeptical as I've been about CJ, I wouldn't trade him. You don't make the playoffs by creating weaknesses in your roster. And that's something else the bills specialize in...

So why not? Lets make our roster weaker... get some worthless 4th round pick out of a former 1st, and pat ourselves on the back for not spending money resigning him when his rookie contract expires.

Saying I'd be willing to trade CJ Spiller for a first rounder doesn't mean I'd trade him for anything that came along. Nobody on this team is off-limits for trading, and a 1st would easily compensate for Spiller - especially considering how easy halfbacks are to find. You are correct that the trade market for halfbacks is dry as a bone, but the OP opens with a hypothetical - Would you trade CJ for a 1st? Yes, I absolutely would.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Saying I'd be willing to trade CJ Spiller for a first rounder doesn't mean I'd trade him for anything that came along. Nobody on this team is off-limits for trading, and a 1st would easily compensate for Spiller - especially considering how easy halfbacks are to find. You are correct that the trade market for halfbacks is dry as a bone, but the OP opens with a hypothetical - Would you trade CJ for a 1st? Yes, I absolutely would.

There is 0 chance of getting a first so why bother talking about it? (for reasons mentioned by ING)

To add to that even if by some miracle we did get one it likely would not be in the range where a difference making QB could be had.

Spiller is arguably our most dangerous offensive weapon. (sure Watkins could be but remember he is just a rookie)

He is in a contract year and we are trying to make the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. Yes lets trade him away. Some Bills fans just have such idiotic viewpoints on things like this. It always makes me just wonder "What the **** are talking about???". Why can't we re sign him by the way?

[Mr. Pink]

I think I've posted something similar when talk came up about trading Stevie Johnson... and Marshawn Lynch...

(BTW: i want to know how indy was conned into that trade. Richardson showed he was a bust from day one... yet the colts gave up the farm for him... wild... that trade still blows my mind)

The Browns robbed the Colts on that trade. RBs are a dime a dozen in this league.

Trading away Spiller doesn't necessarily make RB a hole though either. There's still Brown - who has shown in his limited appearances he has skills, Freddy - who always gets the job down when healthy, and Dixon - who is at best a short yardage back.

Problem is with a dime dozen RB who's no different than guys like Bush, Woodhead, McCluster for that matter is their value isn't there as they're not every down type of players. Eric Metcalf was good too and was never worth the 1st round pick used on him. All of these guys are fine complimentary players but not studs that are deserving of a big pay day. If Spiller is a guy who thinks he deserves a big pay day, I'd rather the Bills not be the team to give it to him is all.

[Ingtar33]

There is 0 chance of getting a first so why bother talking about it? (for reasons mentioned by ING)

To add to that even if by some miracle we did get one it likely would not be in the range where a difference making QB could be had.

Spiller is arguably our most dangerous offensive weapon. (sure Watkins could be but remember he is just a rookie)

He is in a contract year and we are trying to make the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. Yes lets trade him away. Some Bills fans just have such idiotic viewpoints on things like this. It always makes me just wonder "What the **** are talking about???". Why can't we re sign him by the way?

the highlighted part is the ONLY reason we're talking about trading Spiller. And if the rumor that we're examining our options is true~ it's just more of the same from this franchise. I supposed i should be happy... i mean they're apparently thinking of getting something for him rather then going into the off season and letting him walk after not talking to him all season about an extension and then low-balling him

of course this is a team that drafts players in positions of strength just because they expect those strong players to walk in free agency in a year or two... rather then resign them. Which is why we really drafted Spiller and let Lynch walk for peanuts. It was lynch's last rookie contract running out... i think he had 1 more year on it after that season). Of course you notice Seattle resigned lynch... and they won a superbowl with him the center-point of their offence. You notice Seattle resigned a lot of expiring contracts too... extended key pieces of their team as well. (of course lynch wants more money now... but they did chose to keep him in 2011 rather then let him walk... i know the concept is foreign around here but you are allowed to resign players... even if they're not the best player in their position).

sidenote: because lynch was not Adrian Peterson, a lot of folks around here couldn't wait to show him the door. you know since he went to Seattle no other running back in the league has run for more yards or touchdowns? Sure, he's not the best running back in the league. but you can build a team around him. Emmitt Smith wasn't the best running back in the league either... i wouldn't even say he was top 3... despite his numbers... he played behind one of the best lines in league history... but he was a guy you could win with. He was good enough. Some day we as fans and the bills as a franchise have to stop chasing that "dragon"... sure there is better then what we have, but sometimes what we have is good enough. You don't let good enough walk because you don't want to pay it solid money. You resign good enough and you build on it. that's how you build a championship team. Instead we trade away "good enough" and draft "unknown" you fill in for it.

Trading Stevie Johnson was stupid. Trading Lynch was stupid. Not resigning Jairus Byrd was stupid. You won't make the playoffs doing stupid crap like this. And i'm calling it stupid and CHEAP crap.

[chris66]

Re 2nd contract...Adrian Peterson and Jamaal Charles come to mind. and Spiller is no where close to either one of them. Those 2 make up over 60 percent of their respective teams offense.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The Browns robbed the Colts on that trade. RBs are a dime a dozen in this league.

Trading away Spiller doesn't necessarily make RB a hole though either. There's still Brown - who has shown in his limited appearances he has skills, Freddy - who always gets the job down when healthy, and Dixon - who is at best a short yardage back.

Problem is with a dime dozen RB who's no different than guys like Bush, Woodhead, McCluster for that matter is their value isn't there as they're not every down type of players. Eric Metcalf was good too and was never worth the 1st round pick used on him. All of these guys are fine complimentary players but not studs that are deserving of a big pay day. If Spiller is a guy who thinks he deserves a big pay day, I'd rather the Bills not be the team to give it to him is all.

But explain why trading away your best RB is a good idea though?

I would rather get a great year out of him and roll the dice on re signing him than getting a 4th round pick that will likely be a non difference making BUM.

[Mr. Pink]

But explain why trading away your best RB is a good idea though?

I would rather get a great year out of him and roll the dice on re signing him than getting a 4th round pick that will likely be a non difference making BUM.

I disagree that he's the best RB on the team. I still think Fred Jackson is.

I do agree that having him is better than what will likely be a 4th round BUM.

However if he has contract demands of like 7m per year, I don't see how anyone can justify paying him that much.

[chris66]

But explain why trading away your best RB is a good idea though?

I would rather get a great year out of him and roll the dice on re signing him than getting a 4th round pick that will likely be a non difference making BUM. Agreed, makes no sense trading him at worst you get a decent season out of him and the possibility of resigning him for cheap is pretty good since no one pays big bucks for an rb any more

[THATHURMANATOR]

I disagree that he's the best RB on the team. I still think Fred Jackson is.

I do agree that having him is better than what will likely be a 4th round BUM.

However if he has contract demands of like 7m per year, I don't see how anyone can justify paying him that much.

I think when healthy (which he was not for virtually any game last year) he is MUCH better than Fred.

If he goes off this year he is well worth 7 Million. If he sucks or gets injured he won't approach that total.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I mean how can we count on an injury prone 33 year old Running back? Are we serious?

Bryce Brown and Anthony Dixon are fantastic depth but neither have proven a thing in this league.

Brown had a couple good games 2 years ago and not much since.

[Mr. Pink]

I mean how can we count on an injury prone 33 year old Running back? Are we serious?

Bryce Brown and Anthony Dixon are fantastic depth but neither have proven a thing in this league.

Brown had a couple good games 2 years ago and not much since.

Honestly, I think Fred Jackson and CJ Spiller are both gone after this year.

So you're rolling next year with Brown, Dixon and FA/draft pick.

The running back position in the NFL is completely devalued as it's a pass happy league. It's why the Broncos don't care to let Knoshown Moreno go on to greener pastures. Why the Saints let Bush and then Sproles leave. Want to know where Spiller would flourish for the next 3-4 years? Send him to New Orleans and watch him be employed in the role Bush and Sproles once had.

Spiller is not and will not ever be an every down RB in this league and better not be paid as such on this team.

[Mr. Pink]

Trading Stevie Johnson was stupid. Trading Lynch was stupid. Not resigning Jairus Byrd was stupid. You won't make the playoffs doing stupid crap like this. And i'm calling it stupid and CHEAP crap.

Trading Stevie is not really stupid once you draft Watkins and pick up Williams. You're not getting Williams to be your number 4. And who out of Watkins, Woods, Williams and Johnson would be the 4? Of course, if you're keeping Stevie you have no reason to bring in Williams.

Trading Lynch wasn't stupid either. Jackson was more than capable of handling the running on his own and Lynch was one problem out of being in major trouble with the league offices - of course that hasn't happened yet but sometimes you need to hedge your bets. What was stupid was drafting Spiller instead of a Dez Bryant.

Letting Byrd walk was stupid as there is nothing in place to replace him plus he was let go of for absolutely nothing.

And the real reason why this team doesn't make the playoffs has to do with the poor decisions on QBs which hopefully next time the right one is chosen.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Honestly, I think Fred Jackson and CJ Spiller are both gone after this year.

So you're rolling next year with Brown, Dixon and FA/draft pick.

The running back position in the NFL is completely devalued as it's a pass happy league. It's why the Broncos don't care to let Knoshown Moreno go on to greener pastures. Why the Saints let Bush and then Sproles leave. Want to know where Spiller would flourish for the next 3-4 years? Send him to New Orleans and watch him be employed in the role Bush and Sproles once had.

Spiller is not and will not ever be an every down RB in this league and better not be paid as such on this team.

I am fine with this and with that said I would MUCH prefer to keep him this year at least. I don't care about a waste 4th round draft pick. Trading him for something like that is pure idiocy.

[THATHURMANATOR]

And by the way 2 years ago Spiller was MUCH more than a Sproles type player.

How do people just wipe that season out of their memories.

Last year sucked because he had that high ankle sprain early on that NEVER healed. You could just see he couldn't cut or accelorate. He should have sat out 4 games minimum but he gutted it out and for that he is looked at like a lessor player.

[John Doe]

And by the way 2 years ago Spiller was MUCH more than a Sproles type player.

How do people just wipe that season out of their memories.

Last year sucked because he had that high ankle sprain early on that NEVER healed. You could just see he couldn't cut or accelorate. He should have sat out 4 games minimum but he gutted it out and for that he is looked at like a lessor player.

Absolutely. If CJ does not get that high ankle sprain last season this would be a completely different conversation.

It was painful watching him run on the injured leg.

[Mr. Pink]

Absolutely. If CJ does not get that high ankle sprain last season this would be a completely different conversation.

It was painful watching him run on the injured leg.

No it wouldn't.

He's a complimentary player, just like the Reggie Bush's of the league.

He can run for a thousand yards and get you 500 receiving too.

Do you build your offense around him? Obviously not since he's bounced around the league.

Why hold Spiller in any higher of a regard? Outside of bias because he wears the colors.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Trading Stevie is not really stupid once you draft Watkins and pick up Williams. You're not getting Williams to be your number 4. And who out of Watkins, Woods, Williams and Johnson would be the 4? Of course, if you're keeping Stevie you have no reason to bring in Williams.

You're not trading for Williams to be your #4, you are trading for Williams to put Steve in the slot where he belongs. And Woods would be the #4 in most situations.

[THATHURMANATOR]

No it wouldn't.

He's a complimentary player, just like the Reggie Bush's of the league.

He can run for a thousand yards and get you 500 receiving too.

Do you build your offense around him? Obviously not since he's bounced around the league.

Why hold Spiller in any higher of a regard? Outside of bias because he wears the colors.

1700 yards from scrimmage is a complimentary player?????

WHAT????

[John Doe]

No it wouldn't.

He's a complimentary player, just like the Reggie Bush's of the league.

He can run for a thousand yards and get you 500 receiving too.

Do you build your offense around him? Obviously not since he's bounced around the league.

Why hold Spiller in any higher of a regard? Outside of bias because he wears the colors.

As Thum pointed out, the 2012 season seems to get lost in the shuffle:

2012 207 attempts 1,244 yards 6 yards per carry 6 TDs
43 receptiongs 459 yards 10.7 yards per reception 2 TDs

The TD stats are a little low, but the rushing stats are eye-popping.

Yes, you can build an offense around that quite nicely, and that was the plan last season until the sprain.

[Mr. Pink]

1700 yards from scrimmage is a complimentary player?????

WHAT????


As Thum pointed out, the 2012 season seems to get lost in the shuffle:

2012 207 attempts 1,244 yards 6 yards per carry 6 TDs
43 receptiongs 459 yards 10.7 yards per reception 2 TDs

The TD stats are a little low, but the rushing stats are eye-popping.

Yes, you can build an offense around that quite nicely, and that was the plan last season until the sprain.

Bush 1006 yards rushing 506 yards receiving last year 7 total TDs in 14 games. Is Detroits offense built around the guy?

Since he's capable of that did the Saints build their offense around him? Did the Dolphins?

Why is Spiller held in any different regard?

[John Doe]

Bush 1006 yards rushing 506 yards receiving last year 7 total TDs in 14 games. Is Detroits offense built around the guy?

Since he's capable of that did the Saints build their offense around him? Did the Dolphins?

Why is Spiller held in any different regard?

I believe that the Dolphins did build their offense around Bush. I was quite happy to see him go. They were much easier to defend with him gone.

If you are going to compare Bush's last season to the healthy 2012 season that Spiller had, then have at it. Spiller averaged a whopping 1.5 yards per carry more. The Bills glory days featured Thurman Thomas and Spiller's 2012 season would have been very comparable in most respects and superior in some as well.

It might be a different story if the Bills had one of the premier QBs, but they don't grow on trees. In lieu of that, with a developing QB, I would say that a back like Spiller in top form should be one of the main cogs of the offense.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Bush 1006 yards rushing 506 yards receiving last year 7 total TDs in 14 games. Is Detroits offense built around the guy?

Since he's capable of that did the Saints build their offense around him? Did the Dolphins?

Why is Spiller held in any different regard?

Well for starters he had 200 more yards...

[Skooby]

And by the way 2 years ago Spiller was MUCH more than a Sproles type player.

How do people just wipe that season out of their memories.

Last year sucked because he had that high ankle sprain early on that NEVER healed. You could just see he couldn't cut or accelorate. He should have sat out 4 games minimum but he gutted it out and for that he is looked at like a lessor player.

Is he going to want to get paid based on the season of 2 years ago or last season? This season it's assumed he will run like it's a jailbreak, some team might be willing to overpay for him to do that. He hasn't re-signed because he's probably looking for out of whack money for a top ten pick coming out of his rookie deal, that's not happening in Buffalo.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Is he going to want to get paid based on the season of 2 years ago or last season? This season it's assumed he will run like it's a jailbreak, some team might be willing to overpay for him to do that. He hasn't re-signed because he's probably looking for out of whack money for a top ten pick coming out of his rookie deal, that's not happening in Buffalo.

Again a no brainer risk we should all be willing to take. We won't get a first for him. Why weaken this teams chances of winning this year? It is just ASININE!!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

This board is morphing into idiot WGR550 whiner line callers.

Pull it together people.

[Skooby]

Again a no brainer risk we should all be willing to take. We won't get a first for him. Why weaken this teams chances of winning this year? It is just ASININE!!!

What if he wants $9 Million a year? That's not a risk, that'd be crazy.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What if he wants $9 Million a year? That's not a risk, that'd be crazy.

THEN LET HIM WALK WHO CARES?????

We would get like a 3rd or 4th rounder for him. What good will that do us?????

A good season of play by Spiller is MUCH more valuable to me at this point, even at the risk of losing him for nothing. I WANT THE TEAM TO WIN NOW!!!!

[Skooby]

THEN LET HIM WALK WHO CARES?????

We would get like a 3rd or 4th rounder for him. What good will that do us?????

A good season of play by Spiller is MUCH more valuable to me at this point, even at the risk of losing him for nothing. I WANT THE TEAM TO WIN NOW!!!!

We all do, it's just not that wise to move someone for great value before they get to walk for nothing / especially so if we know there's 0 chance to re-sign him. His highest value is before the season starts & we can utilize our depth at one position to try & add talent at another at some point.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We all do, it's just not that wise to move someone for great value before they get to walk for nothing / especially so if we know there's 0 chance to re-sign him. His highest value is before the season starts & we can utilize our depth at one position to try & add talent at another at some point.

What do you foolishly think we could get for Spiller right now?

Please tell me.

[BertSquirtgum]

Trading Lynch wasn't stupid either.

Keep telling yourself that.

[BertSquirtgum]

1700 yards from scrimmage is a complimentary player?????

WHAT????

One year.

[stuckincincy]

[QUOTE=MitchMurrayDowntown;3969196]We all do, it's just not that wise to move someone for great value before they get to walk for nothing / especially so if we know there's 0 chance to re-sign him. His highest value is before the season starts & we can utilize our depth at one position to try & add talent at another at some point.[/QUOTE

Well, beyond Spiller and (injured) Freddie, the BUF running depth has some promise, but nobody that's got a couple hundred of carries in a season under their belt. I think Spiller's name got bandied about recently by the pundits, because a couple of rbs have been injured in camp, none of which (IMO) were irreplaceable.

[Skooby]

What do you foolishly think we could get for Spiller right now?

Please tell me.

If a contending team loses it's star RB, a late first round pick. The Saints are also the best choice & Byrd would obviously be asked about CJ.

[GingerP]

If a contending team loses it's star RB, a late first round pick. The Saints are also the best choice & Byrd would obviously be asked about CJ.

The Saints lack cap room and are pretty deep at RB themselves (Pierre Thomas, Mark Ingram, Khiry Robinson & Travis Cadet). They aren't dropping a 1st on a RB, nobody is going to do that.

If the Bills do let him go they stand to get a compensatory selection as high as a 3rd, depending on what else they do in FA, although I am sure their preference is to re-sign him. The market for RB is depressed, so it is doubtful that Spiller will get huge money. The smart bet is to keep him, get a good year out of him and see if they can re-sign him. They aren't going to get value in a trade at this point.

[Mike]

To answer the thread question:

YES: do it! If Anyone offers a First for CJ, take it!!! And run to the bank!

Reality: No RB have been taken in 1st round in last 2 seasons! In Aprils draft first RB taken was at pick #54, which is latest EVER!!!

[Mike]

If a contending team loses it's star RB, a late first round pick. The Saints are also the best choice & Byrd would obviously be asked about CJ.

Maybe once upon a time in a land far far away...

RBs aren't what they used to be! They are no longer as valuable in the new NFL, plus they have a short shelf life!

15 years ago... It could have been a different story

[Skooby]

The Saints lack cap room and are pretty deep at RB themselves (Pierre Thomas, Mark Ingram, Khiry Robinson & Travis Cadet). They aren't dropping a 1st on a RB, nobody is going to do that.

If the Bills do let him go they stand to get a compensatory selection as high as a 3rd, depending on what else they do in FA, although I am sure their preference is to re-sign him. The market for RB is depressed, so it is doubtful that Spiller will get huge money. The smart bet is to keep him, get a good year out of him and see if they can re-sign him. They aren't going to get value in a trade at this point.

CJ's on his rookie contract & the cap goes up next year, so it's not going to come down to that.

[trapezeus]

Do you really think we would get a top 5 pick for Spiller? No freaking way. Anything outside that range is EJ territory.

I say re sign Spiller and get best Free Agent if EJ is terrible.

again, that's why you would just be looking. if you got what would be normal, a 3rd or 4th, then you proceed as normaly. however, if you get a desperate team that just lost a RB late in camp and think they have a good year but need a back, they may be willing to mortgage the future.

in that unlikely case, you should consider it.

otherwise, i agree with Ingtar. you would be weakening your run game by hoping freddie can last an entire year with a lot of running and some unproven guys behind him. you'd really have to feel likeyour OL took a huge step up and everyone can run behind the line play. but based on the reviews at camp, it doesn't sound like they are at that point to make that gamble.

but people love whaley's all in view.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If a contending team loses it's star RB, a late first round pick. The Saints are also the best choice & Byrd would obviously be asked about CJ.

Just as I figured pretty foolish. NOT HAPPENING. More like what we received from Seattle for Lynch.

[Skooby]

Just as I figured pretty foolish. NOT HAPPENING. More like what we received from Seattle for Lynch.

Yeah, Lynch fresh off a DUI & striking a pedestrian increased his value.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah, Lynch fresh off a DUI & striking a pedestrian increased his value.

And Spiller coming off a sub 1000 yard year helps his.

Couple that with the Colts getting fleeced in the TRich deal and there is no way we get a first.

I would be Completely shocked. To add to that if the first wasn't top of the draft I would rather just keep Spiller. Like I said I want to win NOW. So sick of putting things off until next year.

[Skooby]

And Spiller coming off a sub 1000 yard year helps his.

Couple that with the Colts getting fleeced in the TRich deal and there is no way we get a first.

I would be Completely shocked. To add to that if the first wasn't top of the draft I would rather just keep Spiller. Like I said I want to win NOW. So sick of putting things off until next year.

Pretty big difference between a high-ankle sprain & a Felony.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Pretty big difference between a high-ankle sprain & a Felony.

Is it?

[Skooby]

Is it?

Let me be a little more blunt, it's my understanding that there's a massive gulf between what CJ wants and the Buffalo Bills are willing to spend. The highs-ankle sprain suffered last season is a convenient excuse for CJ's poor performance, so one would figure if he stays healthy that he can become a force again. The Bills have a loaded back-field, it's our strongest & most depth filled position by far. So all of that being said, another team that looks to improve and could obtain a potential force for running might be willing to step-up to overpay and give us a first round pick. If for any reason that wouldn't come about and we will probably keep CJ & see how he does this year with all these other players to run against. Either way he won't be running on all three downs & will probably not see huge numbers, which will obviously lower his value on the market.

Collectively speaking knowing all these variables, we either get the benefit of the doubt from a potential contending team who figure to end up with a late-round 1st pick that will probably not be better CJ or we devalue him to get a better contract for the team after this season. His best value for the Bills is to get rid of him in the next 30 days, otherwise it's potluck.

P.S. Lynch would of probably been in jail or out of the league if he stayed in Buffalo, a change of scenery was needed.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Again no chance we get a first rounder.

[Skooby]

Again no chance we get a first rounder.

Then CJ stays, no issue. There's a scenario that I just laid out that says there's a chance, it's not a no chance scenario.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Fine I will agree to that. There isn't a 0% chance but unlikely.

[GingerP]

CJ's on his rookie contract & the cap goes up next year, so it's not going to come down to that.

C.J.'s contract has a salary of $3.5M this year, and the Saints have $4.7M right now using the rule-of-51. When the season starts, they will need to account for 2 additional salaries, a PS, and operating room for the year as players go on IR and replacements are needed.

They are capped out, they can't afford to add Spiller, let alone sign him to an extension. They are a heavily-leveraged cap team, and on top of that they are deep at RB and don't have the need to trade for another.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The Saints are not realistic to get CJ. The problem is that all the teams with cap space are in the AFC.

[Mr. Pink]

I did not say that the Saints would be the team to actually get him, it would just be a perfect place for him with his skill set and how they've used similar RBs in the past. Of course, he'd go there for 4 years and then they'd move on to someone else.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I did not say that the Saints would be the team to actually get him, it would just be a perfect place for him with his skill set and how they've used similar RBs in the past. Of course, he'd go there for 4 years and then they'd move on to someone else.

Any team that has a QB who can reliably pick up 3rd and long is a fantastic place for Spiller. If you can let Spiller run for 1 and 2 yard gains but still consistently keep the chains moving, he will eventually start breaking the big ones. The problem is, by the time he's done that for us, we've already gone 3 and out four times and are down by 17 points.

[Skooby]

Any team that has a QB who can reliably pick up 3rd and long is a fantastic place for Spiller. If you can let Spiller run for 1 and 2 yard gains but still consistently keep the chains moving, he will eventually start breaking the big ones. The problem is, by the time he's done that for us, we've already gone 3 and out four times and are down by 17 points.

This is the exact problem we have.

[Skooby]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000374302/article/cj-spiller-hopes-to-stay-with-buffalo-bills-in-2014

Funny how this just shows up huh?

[Skooby]

I also understand that he's looking for an agent & plans on getting a mid $30 Million range deal, which isn't going to happen in Buffalo. So I'd sell his jersey while you can, I don't think CJ is long for WNY.

[stuckincincy]

The only team that would trade a #1 for Spiller is Buffalo. :lolpoint:

[k-oneputt]

He's not going anywhere.
The two Dougies have to win this season with an inadequate qb who they went all in with.
Why would they send him off for a draft pick they will probably never see ?

[trapezeus]

He's not going anywhere.
The two Dougies have to win this season with an inadequate qb who they went all in with.
Why would they send him off for a draft pick they will probably never see ?

because that is part of the bills historical activity. build something up and then remove a piece. they even did it with watkins. they bring him in, could have let him just be a 2 or a 1b receiver with stevie, and then they yanked him. i think stevie, woods, and watkins would be harder to defend and create those kind of one on one receiver situations that would help an inaccurate qb.

but they trade him for another rb. i was fine that that provided some strong injury protection and a different style runner. but if they trade him, they'll be doing it to replace someone else they feel might be too expensive.

if a trade has to happen, i would hope we could get a LB back in return to at least really help that group out. they are all in on a rookie.

[notacon]

CJ's contract is expiring & if something easy was going to be done it would have already. So is getting a functional player now & a first round pick next year be worth it ? He's sorta been a mild bust for a top ten pick & I wouldn't call his production worth us not getting a new opportunity in the draft next year, so wouldn't it be like trading him for Sammy & our 4th round pick next year ?

I love Spiller but not his production for the team & I think we could probably pick up another player for our O-line or a LB as well on a well from stocked team that's contending.

A 1st round pick for Spiller?!?!? Uhhhhh...no team in their right mind would pay a 1st round lick for him.

I said at the time, and continue to say that Spiller was NEVER worth a 1st round pick, considering the Bill's needs at the time. He's STILL not even close to being worth that.

You are dreaming.

[Skooby]

A 1st round pick for Spiller?!?!? Uhhhhh...no team in their right mind would pay a 1st round lick for him.

I said at the time, and continue to say that Spiller was NEVER worth a 1st round pick, considering the Bill's needs at the time. He's STILL not even close to being worth that.

You are dreaming.

Situational moves from contending teams might allow it to happen, where there's smoke....