Best QB on Bills Roster

[Mike]

From what I have seen, read, & heard thus far, there is a good chance that EJ isn't even substantially the best QB on the Bills.

For the most part EJ has been... well, EJ. One great throw, a couple of ok throws , one wild throw & of course one throw in the arms of a defender. His accuracy, timing, progressions, reading defenses are still second rate.

<b>The other 2 QB: </b> Jeff Tuel & Thad Lewis - who was our best performing QB last year- are having a competition of their own and Jeff has taken the lead.

<b>Jeff Tuel</b>
He struggled in a few starts last season, but I never understood why Bills fans dogged him (an un-drafted rookie FA) while defending similarly bad play from EJ (1st rounder & 1st QB taken in draft). Somehow, this didn't add up, plus there were many things in Tuel's game that are clearly lacking in EJs.


<b>Tuel's Advantages:</b>

<b>Accuracy: </b>he is far more accurate and has much better ball placement than EJ.

<b>Down Field:</b> I remember his 50yrd TD bomb to Goodwin. It was exciting and longest TD for this Bills up to that point! He came in, and instantly stretched the field, something EJ could not do with his superior arm strength.

<b>Reading Defenses: </b>He spread the ball around and moved the chains. Sure he made mistakes, has bad plays and turnovers; however, he showed positives that were absent in EJ's game.

In my opinion, EJ is missing some very key and fundamental elements to his game and as a result his career may go in the way of Kevin Kolb or JP Lossman; in other words he may not even be backup material. Tuel on the other hand will at least make for a decent backup, a replica of our latest decent QB: Ryan Fitzpatrick or Jake Delohme.

<i>*** Hopefully I'm wrong and EJ becomes Warren Moon 2.0 and Tuel becomes Brady 3.0 and we trade one of them for like 6 picks... But chances are..,</i>

[Skooby]

Did you learn English from commercials?

[swiper]

I like Tuel. I hate Manuel. But, even I have a hard time justifying Tuel be elevated above the 16th overall pick from 2013 at this point. Manuel will dig his own grave. But Tuel is not likely to be the long-term QB solution. He's a back-up at best. He's not the next Tom Brady. This issue will be the albatross around Whaley's neck.

[Night Train]

Timing is everything

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/manuel-continues-to-improve-20140728

I'm going to 2 practices this week and a couple more next week. We'll see how much Manuel has progressed. I'm glad we have Tuel around and also wish to observe his development. I root for the jersey and hope either can step forward and play solid ball.

I would like to know that if Manuel goes down, we have an alternative in Tuel. I don't see that in Lewis, who despite being a gamer turns the ball over far too much.

[don137]

From what I heard on the John Murphy show EJ looked great in practice Monday evening going through his progressions and made several nice throws.

[Historian]

I wouldn't use John Murphy as a credible source, Don. He has a financial stake in the organization.

Just from what I have read, essentially tweets from the D and C and BEN writers at camp, (as well as the talking heads on tv) most say EJ has looked bad, but his saving grace is that Watkins is catching everything thrown to his side of the field, no matter how far off it is.

I'm really hoping something clicks inside the guys head...and soon.

[BertSquirtgum]

People are glad that Jeff Tuel is on the Bills roster? What the ****?

[better days]

I wouldn't use John Murphy as a credible source, Don. He has a financial stake in the organization.

Just from what I have read, essentially tweets from the D and C and BEN writers at camp, (as well as the talking heads on tv) most say EJ has looked bad, but his saving grace is that Watkins is catching everything thrown to his side of the field, no matter how far off it is.

I'm really hoping something clicks inside the guys head...and soon.

While John Murphy does work for the Bills, he does give his honest opinion on players.

I have often heard him say when a player is not playing well, including EJ.

[Turf]

With all of the potential QB's available in the middle rounds in the draft we could have gotten, but no, EJ's our guy.

[better days]

With all of the potential QB's available in the middle rounds in the draft we could have gotten, but no, EJ's our guy.

Tell us who you would have wanted the Bills to take in the draft & in which round.

[better days]

Everyone says that Tuel is beating out Lewis in their competition, but I haven't heard anyone say that Tuel has looked better than EJ overall.

The Op has commented on EJ's poor throws, well Tuel has had poor throws as well, including INT's.

[Mike]

Did you learn English from commercials?

Actually, I did.

Why do you ask?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Another wasted Thread.

We are EJ or bust. Why even discuss this?

[justasportsfan]

Like I said before, in spite of Tuel's limited experience in college and limited snaps at camp last year vs EJ, EJ looked just as bad as Tuel at times. From what I saw at camp last year, Tuel kept up with both EJ and Kolb.

I've have a feeling the coaching staff see's the potential in Tuel as a BACK UP. If EJ doesn't improve then he's just another back up like Tuel.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Tuel looks good in camp and looks terrible in games. EJ was at least serviceable and made a few good plays at the ends of games to seal a W. I'm not saying it's impossible for that to turn around but as of right now, you have no evidence to suggest that is going to happen.

[Buffalo Thriller]

I remember when i was bashed for wanting us to draft Nick Foles. Good times.... Gooooood times.

[ServoBillieves]

I remember when i was bashed for wanting us to draft Nick Foles. Good times.... Gooooood times.

So was I for wanting Colin Kaepernick...

[The last buffalo fan]

I really liked Joe Montana!

[Fletch]

From what I have seen, read, & heard thus far, there is a good chance that EJ isn't even substantially the best QB on the Bills.


Was there ever anything definitive that he was?

He wasn't even the best QB in the ACC in his senior season, that honor went to a Jr., Tahj Boyd. Glennon was better too. Both Glennon and Boyd threw many more TDs and had worse teams around them.

Only those that actually believed that Whaley knew what he was doing by reaching to take Manuel would even have thought that for a moment. There always was more than enough info on KneeJ prior to the draft last year to have challenged whether he would ever even be an average starter in the NFL much less one worth reaching for by a round, perhaps rounds, to take him in the mid-1st. Only our front office knew better than everyone else.

We're left to enjoy another looming rebuilding mess. As usual, when it begins, hopefully after this season and not next one, the new GM and HC will probably insist that we really don't need to rebuild with no QB, no 3-down RB, no TE, one dicey DT and one aging one, only one above average LB on the squad, and only one above average DB. Then they'll approach that season as if we're not rebuilding while treating us to the news that we are following it.

Our hope is to get a new owner that cans the entire group of FO staff.

Odds of that happening? Rhetorically speaking of course.


Jeff Tuel
He struggled in a few starts last season, but I never understood why Bills fans dogged him (an un-drafted rookie FA) while defending similarly bad play from EJ (1st rounder & 1st QB taken in draft). Somehow, this didn't add up, plus there were many things in Tuel's game that are clearly lacking in EJs.

I'm not sure I share your optimism on Tuel, who did absolutely nothing significant in college and under any circumstances it would be remarkable if he even earned his way into a #2 spot as a career. But sure you know why Bills fans dogged him, it was because their fearless leader told them that KneeJ was better, and of course they believe everything that their fearless leader tells them.

[kishoph]

So was I for wanting Colin Kaepernick...


I really liked Joe Montana!


For 6 rounds in 2000, I was pulling out my hair, yelling draft Tom Brady from Michigan. :idea:


:horsecrap

[Fletch]

For 6 rounds in 2000, I was pulling out my hair, yelling draft Tom Brady from Michigan. :idea:


:horsecrap

Sure you were. I'm sure you were right there suggesting that we draft Terrell Davis too in the 1995 Draft.

Funny though, I was saying the same thing about Russell Wilson in the 2012 Draft. Instead, realizing the gem we had in Fitzpatrick, our crack front office chose TJ Graham instead, another player that may not even make the roster this season.

[Goobylal]

Was there ever anything definitive that he was?

He wasn't even the best QB in the ACC in his senior season, that honor went to a Jr., Tahj Boyd. Glennon was better too. Both Glennon and Boyd threw many more TDs and had worse teams around them.

Only those that actually believed that Whaley knew what he was doing by reaching to take Manuel would even have thought that for a moment. There always was more than enough info on KneeJ prior to the draft last year to have challenged whether he would ever even be an average starter in the NFL much less one worth reaching for by a round, perhaps rounds, to take him in the mid-1st. Only our front office knew better than everyone else.

We're left to enjoy another looming rebuilding mess. As usual, when it begins, hopefully after this season and not next one, the new GM and HC will probably insist that we really don't need to rebuild with no QB, no 3-down RB, no TE, one dicey DT and one aging one, only one above average LB on the squad, and only one above average DB. Then they'll approach that season as if we're not rebuilding while treating us to the news that we are following it.

Our hope is to get a new owner that cans the entire group of FO staff.

Odds of that happening? Rhetorically speaking of course.
Cans the entire FO over taking EJ? LOL! Get a grip.


I'm not sure I share your optimism on Tuel, who did absolutely nothing significant in college and under any circumstances it would be remarkable if he even earned his way into a #2 spot as a career. But sure you know why Bills fans dogged him, it was because their fearless leader told them that KneeJ was better, and of course they believe everything that their fearless leader tells them.
No, it's because he showed nothing in actual games. Actually, he showed why he was an UDFA. If he improves, great.

[Fletch]

Cans the entire FO over taking EJ? LOL! Get a grip.

What, you become a Bills fan last season.

Really?


No, it's because he showed nothing in actual games. Actually, he showed why he was an UDFA. If he improves, great.

He won't, but exactly nonetheless. In full agreement. I'm not the one suggesting that we have even one good QB on the roster much less more than that.

We're going to be in the market for a QB, again, after this season.

Now, getting back to that FO question ...

[Goobylal]

What, you become a Bills fan last season.

Really?
Huh? The FO changed about a year ago when Whaley became GM. Why would a new ownership group fire him and the rest of the guys, Brandon especially?


He won't, but exactly nonetheless. In full agreement. I'm not the one suggesting that we have even one good QB on the roster much less more than that.

We're going to be in the market for a QB, again, after this season.
We'll see. Having guys like Watkins, Williams, Woods, and Chandler will help EJ immensely. As will a strong running game and defense.

[swiper]

Having guys like Jerry Rice, Barry Sanders, and Antonio Gates couldn't help Manuel. Dream as you will.

[Goobylal]

Having guys like Jerry Rice, Barry Sanders, and Antonio Gates couldn't help Manuel. Dream as you will.
Yeah, okay.

[swiper]

From yesterday:


He still struggled with going through all of his reads, which is concerning because it appears as though Jeff Tuel has no problem doing so in the offense, and that has limited him at practice so far. That, in addition to his inaccuracy, is what holds him back from realizing the potential the Bills believe that he has.

[kishoph]

From yesterday:


Funny last night Marty Schottenheimer said he "was so extremely impressed" with EJ and also said that "he was terrific with accuracy and velocity." Granted EJ had a very good night, but whats to say that he can't continue to do so. Then again, who the hell is Marty Schottenheimer, when Joe Blow from WGR says that Jeff Tuel is the man.


http://www.buffalobills.com/video/audio/Schottenheimer-Youve-got-to-be-very-excited/10413a4f-418c-4d13-9461-1fe2188eda8a

[PromoTheRobot]

EJ Manuel is the most physically gifted of the 4 Bills QBs. Is he the best overall? Right now? barely.

[better days]

Tuel looks good in camp and looks terrible in games. EJ was at least serviceable and made a few good plays at the ends of games to seal a W. I'm not saying it's impossible for that to turn around but as of right now, you have no evidence to suggest that is going to happen.

Tuel looked GREAT against the Chiefs...................right up until he threw that pick 6.

[better days]

Sure you were. I'm sure you were right there suggesting that we draft Terrell Davis too in the 1995 Draft.

Funny though, I was saying the same thing about Russell Wilson in the 2012 Draft. Instead, realizing the gem we had in Fitzpatrick, our crack front office chose TJ Graham instead, another player that may not even make the roster this season.

Well unlike you, I REALLY was BANGING the drum for the Bills to draft Russell Wilson before that draft.

[Goobylal]

Tuel looked GREAT against the Chiefs...................right up until he threw that pick 6.
Eh, not really. He was 18 of 39 (46.2%) for 229 yards (5.9 YPA) with 1 TD and 1 INT, not counting that pick six.

[better days]

Eh, not really. He was 18 of 39 (46.2%) for 229 yards (5.9 YPA) with 1 TD and 1 INT, not counting that pick six.

Stats don't really mean crap. Tuel was WINNING the game. All he had to do was to protect the ball at the point he threw the pick 6 to get the win.

If the Chiefs took over on downs at their one yard line with the time remaining in the game, the Bills would have won that game.

[swiper]

Funny last night Marty Schottenheimer said he "was so extremely impressed" with EJ and also said that "he was terrific with accuracy and velocity." Granted EJ had a very good night, but whats to say that he can't continue to do so. Then again, who the hell is Marty Schottenheimer, when Joe Blow from WGR says that Jeff Tuel is the man.


http://www.buffalobills.com/video/audio/Schottenheimer-Youve-got-to-be-very-excited/10413a4f-418c-4d13-9461-1fe2188eda8a

Swiper loves the Schott. But he's wrong about the Manuel.

- - - Updated - - -


Stats don't really mean crap. Tuel was WINNING the game. All he had to do was to protect the ball at the point he threw the pick 6 to get the win.

If the Chiefs took over on downs at their one yard line with the time remaining in the game, the Bills would have won that game.

Who told him to throw the ball?

[better days]

- - - Updated - - -



Who told him to throw the ball?[/QUOTE]

The Devil.

[kishoph]

Sure you were. I'm sure you were right there suggesting that we draft Terrell Davis too in the 1995 Draft.

Funny though, I was saying the same thing about Russell Wilson in the 2012 Draft. Instead, realizing the gem we had in Fitzpatrick, our crack front office chose TJ Graham instead, another player that may not even make the roster this season.

You can't even identify such bold sarcasm (notice the horse taking a **** = horse****), it's no wonder you can't correctly identify anything football related either.

[Fletch]

Well unlike you, I REALLY was BANGING the drum for the Bills to draft Russell Wilson before that draft.

Who said I was joking! I would have kissed my own ass if we had drafted Wilson. Meanwhile, I distinctly recall having to listen here about how Graham was going to light up opposing Ds with his blazing speed, ... kinda like Goodwin and now Watkins.

[Fletch]

Eh, not really. He was 18 of 39 (46.2%) for 229 yards (5.9 YPA) with 1 TD and 1 INT, not counting that pick six.

I Buffalo that's close enough to QB paradise these days. Hence the need for a new GM and FO.

[Fletch]

You can't even identify such bold sarcasm (notice the horse taking a **** = horse****), it's no wonder you can't correctly identify anything football related either.

Yeah, it's tough around here in the forum where "kids say the darndest things." Half the time far more ludicrous things are meant seriously.

[Goobylal]

I Buffalo that's close enough to QB paradise these days. Hence the need for a new GM and FO.
LOL! Hardly.

[TigerJ]

Tuel reads defenses naturally and makes quick decisions, but I'm not ready to make him a starter any time soon. As far as John Murphy promoting Manuel, he's not the only one gushing about Manuel's performance on Monday evening. Marty Shottenheimer loved him too. He still needs to get better, but he's progressing, and I'm encouraged.

[Fletch]

LOL! Hardly.

You're right. They're doing a fine job and the people that have been there for decades have a lot to be proud of.

By the way, what kinds of prescriptions meds are you on anyway?

... I'm assuming that they're prescription.

[Fletch]

Tuel reads defenses naturally and makes quick decisions, but I'm not ready to make him a starter any time soon. As far as John Murphy promoting Manuel, he's not the only one gushing about Manuel's performance on Monday evening. Marty Shottenheimer loved him too. He still needs to get better, but he's progressing, and I'm encouraged.

Tuel was terrible in college, why would he ever be good in the NFL? I realize that you're not saying that he is, just wondering why anyone might hope in Tuel beyond just blind hope.

As to Manuel, according to NFL.com's draft profile, which matches the others, here was the weaknesses about KneeJ:

Weaknesses

Gives opponents too many chances for turnovers by forcing throws into coverage trying to make a play. Area code accuracy -- short throws are often low or wide, preventing receivers from making a play after the catch. Deep ball accuracy is uneven as well. Gets happy feet under pressure, spins to the outside to avoid the rush. Inconsistent recognizing blitz. Must step into his throws more consistently to fully utilize his arm strength.

He was like that for four seasons at FSU and last season here. I don't understand what the hope is that he'll be any different this season, especially when camp, when he's up against nothing defenders lots of the time, and not anywhere close to real-game situations, he's playing the same. Why would that improve mysteriously for no reason once the season starts. It won't.

Can he overcome that to become a good starter? I dont' see how, those are enormous weaknesses in the NFL and are typically showstoppers in the development of any QB. He's not going to "athletic" or "character" his way to becoming good.

We're screwed, once again.

[swiper]

Tuel was not terrible in college. You saying that shows you are a joke. Stop babbling on about stuff you don't even know about.

[Fletch]

Tuel was not terrible in college. You saying that shows you are a joke. Stop babbling on about stuff you don't even know about.

You're funny.

Yeah, you're right, we'll just take your word for it instead of his 8 TD/8 INT season as a Sr. Great numbers. Maybe we can manage to squeeze that out of him here and then we'd be Super Bowl bound.

After all, who can possibly argue with half of his game resulting in 0 TDs and 6 INTs.

Some fans seem to deserve the team that we have. I count you among them.

[stuckincincy]

You're funny.
Yeah, you're right, we'll just take your word for it instead of his 8 TD/8 INT season as a Sr. Great numbers. Maybe we can manage to squeeze that out of him here and then we'd be Super Bowl bound.
After all, who can possibly argue with half of his game resulting in 0 TDs and 6 INTs.
Some fans seem to deserve the team that we have. I count you among them.

Why rag on Tuel? He's an undrafted player who is 3rd on the depth chart.

[justasportsfan]

Tuel was terrible in college, why would he ever be good in the NFL?

In now way I am saying that TUel will even be a decent back up however, was here really TERRIBLE when he was healthy in college? At the conclusion of his collegiate career in Pullman, Tuel ranked first in completion percentage, fifth in completions, sixth in passing attempts, seventh in passing yards and seventh in passing touchdowns in Washington State history.

[Goobylal]

You're right. They're doing a fine job and the people that have been there for decades have a lot to be proud of.

By the way, what kinds of prescriptions meds are you on anyway?

... I'm assuming that they're prescription.
Nothing. What are you on? Besides ass fumes.

[Mike]

Stats don't really mean crap. Tuel was WINNING the game. All he had to do was to protect the ball at the point he threw the pick 6 to get the win.

If the Chiefs took over on downs at their one yard line with the time remaining in the game, the Bills would have won that game.

Plus Cheifs were one of Best Defenses at that point. Their D was unstoppable. Tuel played well for most of the game and the Bills almost won a game they had no business being in against an undefeated opponent.