Boy, this wasn't very encouraging

[Fletch]

I was just googling for Bills news, part of my daily regimen, and ran across this ditty from today across the border.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2014/07/25/buffalo_bills_pros_and_cons_of_finding_home_in_gta.html

It's a good piece insofar as info goes, but hardly encouraging. It implies the much greater suitability for the team north of the border.

Lots of viable locations and lots of good traffic/transportation options that Buffalo/WNY does not have.

Also, and maybe this is the paranoia in me, is it possible that the Bon Jovi group was set-up to take heat for a move to Canada to draw the kind of ire that it is so that another group might do the same on the QT? I realize that that's rhetorical, just throwing it out there.

IDK, I guess as fans we've watched as hardly anything good has happened to this team since Polian left and I'm always waiting for that other shoe to drop which happens so often that I wonder how many "other shoes" there are.

[better days]

I was just googling for Bills news, part of my daily regimen, and ran across this ditty from today across the border.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/2014/07/25/buffalo_bills_pros_and_cons_of_finding_home_in_gta.html

It's a good piece insofar as info goes, but hardly encouraging. It implies the much greater suitability for the team north of the border.

Lots of viable locations and lots of good traffic/transportation options that Buffalo/WNY does not have.

Also, and maybe this is the paranoia in me, is it possible that the Bon Jovi group was set-up to take heat for a move to Canada to draw the kind of ire that it is so that another group might do the same on the QT? I realize that that's rhetorical, just throwing it out there.

IDK, I guess as fans we've watched as hardly anything good has happened to this team since Polian left and I'm always waiting for that other shoe to drop which happens so often that I wonder how many "other shoes" there are.

Actually, it is very encouraging. The lease stipulates the Bills can not be sold to anyone that has intentions of moving them.

And after reading the last article in the Toronto Sun that said the Toronto group will not bid much over $1 Billion, I am more concerned that someone will make a LARGE bid on the Bills to move them to LA.

[Goobylal]

The Bills' trust know the Toronto group is lying and wants to move the team to Canada, and they have no chance getting the team.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am done with the team if they are no longer in the US.

[better days]

I am done with the team if they are no longer in the US.

So you would be fine if they were in LA?

[Skooby]

I am done with the team if they are no longer in the US.

How about in Niagara Falls Canada but Still the Buffalo Bills ?

[trapezeus]

So why would someone buy the bills to move them when there are three other teams that are on yr to yr leases with no break clauses? And why would the nfl let the afc east get screwed up when 2 of those 3 teams are on the west coast?

[better days]

So why would someone buy the bills to move them when there are three other teams that are on yr to yr leases with no break clauses? And why would the nfl let the afc east get screwed up when 2 of those 3 teams are on the west coast?

Those teams are not for sale.

[OpIv37]

The Bills' trust know the Toronto group is lying and wants to move the team to Canada, and they have no chance getting the team.

You're assuming the Bills trust cares whether the team moves. Everyone assumes that but no one actually knows.

[better days]

You're assuming the Bills trust cares whether the team moves. Everyone assumes that but no one actually knows.

Well, we do know that according to the lease, they are not allowed to sell to anyone that plans to move the team.

[OpIv37]

Well, we do know that according to the lease, they are not allowed to sell to anyone that plans to move the team.
And the Bon Jovi group has said publicly they aren't going to move the team. Everyone knows that's not true, but if they're the highest bidders, then the trust has their plausible deniability.

[Fletch]

The Bills' trust know the Toronto group is lying and wants to move the team to Canada, and they have no chance getting the team.

It's funny that you know what's in the trust. No one else knows, every serious article on the subject states plainly that no one knows.

Except you of course.

Presumably you know who will win the bid, so who is it there Mr. Wizard?

[Fletch]

You're assuming the Bills trust cares whether the team moves. Everyone assumes that but no one actually knows.

It's funny, that's a fact, but a number of people here think that their opinion and preference in the matter means more to all of these billionaires and to the NFL.

Kinda enlightens us as to their opinions on the team and its performance.

[better days]

It's funny that you know what's in the trust. No one else knows, every serious article on the subject states plainly that no one knows.

Except you of course.

Presumably you know who will win the bid, so who is it there Mr. Wizard?

It is also in the lease, that the Trust can not sell to someone that plans to move the team.

[Fletch]

It is also in the lease, that the Trust can not sell to someone that plans to move the team.

Source?

We've seen numerous sources say the exact opposite on this. Cite it or quit saying it.

[Goobylal]

You're assuming the Bills trust cares whether the team moves. Everyone assumes that but no one actually knows.
The trust most certainly does care whether the team moves. Otherwise there would have been no need for a trust and the team would have been put up for auction to the highest bidder.

Well, we do know that according to the lease, they are not allowed to sell to anyone that plans to move the team.
And this.

And the Bon Jovi group has said publicly they aren't going to move the team. Everyone knows that's not true, but if they're the highest bidders, then the trust has their plausible deniability.
They also originally said they wanted to move the team and and then they backtracked. Why do you think they did?

And John Wawrow did a report revealing they did a study on stadium sites in Ontario, meaning their plan is to move the team. The trust knows this/they're lying.

It's funny that you know what's in the trust. No one else knows, every serious article on the subject states plainly that no one knows.

Except you of course.

Presumably you know who will win the bid, so who is it there Mr. Wizard?
Yes I do. Terry Pegula. Hear me now, realize I was right later.

[better days]

Source?

We've seen numerous sources say the exact opposite on this. Cite it or quit saying it.

GOOGLE is your friend.

I am not talking about the trust, but the lease.

It is a matter of PUBLIC RECORD!

LOOK IT UP.

[OpIv37]

The trust most certainly does care whether the team moves. Otherwise there would have been no need for a trust and the team would have been put up for auction to the highest bidder.


And why do you think they wouldnt use a trust to auction to the highest bidder? Someone has to be in charge.

[OpIv37]

And John Wawrow did a report revealing they did a study on stadium sites in Ontario, meaning their plan is to move the team. The trust knows this/they're lying.


Im not saying they don't know. Im saying they don't necessarily care. The public statements by the Bon Jovi group give them plausible deniability if that group makes the highest bid.

[OpIv37]

GOOGLE is your friend.

I am not talking about the trust, but the lease.

It is a matter of PUBLIC RECORD!

LOOK IT UP.
No, thats not how it works. If you make a claim, it's on you to support it. You don't get to claim something as fact and then force other people to research it. You need to have the source before you make the claim.

[better days]

No, thats not how it works. If you make a claim, it's on you to support it. You don't get to claim something as fact and then force other people to research it. You need to have the source before you make the claim.

I didn't realize you made the rules.

My bad. And people call me old.

This was not reported on that long ago.

Anyone that does not know about the Bills lease with Erie County is NOT a Bills fan.

[Goobylal]

And why do you think they wouldnt use a trust to auction to the highest bidder? Someone has to be in charge.
If the plan was to sell to the highest bidder, sure you might need one person in charge. Not a group.

Im not saying they don't know. Im saying they don't necessarily care. The public statements by the Bon Jovi group give them plausible deniability if that group makes the highest bid.
They do care. That's why they'll take the best bid, not necessarily the highest. And again, they can see right through BJ. Not that it matters because it's Pegula's team to lose.

[OpIv37]

I didn't realize you made the rules.

My bad. And people call me old.

This was not reported on that long ago.

Anyone that does not know about the Bills lease with Erie County is NOT a Bills fan.

I don't make the rules.

Whoever makes the claim needs to be able to support it, or else the claim isn't valid. That's how it is- that's how it has always been and that's how it should be.

[OpIv37]

If the plan was to sell to the highest bidder, sure you might need one person in charge. Not a group.

They do care. That's why they'll take the best bid, not necessarily the highest. And again, they can see right through BJ. Not that it matters because it's Pegula's team to lose.

It's about money.

I'd like some proof as to why some of you think the best bid and the highest bid are different things.

[better days]

I don't make the rules.

Whoever makes the claim needs to be able to support it, or else the claim isn't valid. That's how it is- that's how it has always been and that's how it should be.

Well the Bills & Erie County have a valid contract & that is a matter of public record.

[OpIv37]

Well the Bills & Erie County have a valid contract & that is a matter of public record.

Well this is naivete at its finest.

First, you are assuming such a stipulation is legally enforceable. It's not

Second, the Bon Jovi group publicly said that they will not move the team. We know that's not true, but technically and legally, it meets the stipulation. As usual, you take the overly simplistic view and show no propensity for understanding or analysis. But the overly simplistic view gives you the reassurance that you crave, so why think about it beyond that, right?

[better days]

Well this is naivete at its finest.

First, you are assuming such a stipulation is legally enforceable. It's not

Second, the Bon Jovi group publicly said that they will not move the team. We know that's not true, but technically and legally, it meets the stipulation. As usual, you take the overly simplistic view and show no propensity for understanding or analysis. But the overly simplistic view gives you the reassurance that you crave, so why think about it beyond that, right?

If I am caught doing something & I tell the judge in Court I did not do it I guess they can't charge me right?

I don't think there is any law that says LIERS must be believed.

And you are correct. The lease can be challenged in Court, but NY State has deep pockets.

[OpIv37]

If I am caught doing something & I tell the judge in Court I did not do it I guess they can't charge me right?

I don't think there is any law that says LIERS must be believed.

And you are correct. The lease can be challenged in Court, but NY State has deep pockets.

If the pockets of NYS were as deep as you say, they'd be ponying up for a new stadium and this wouldn't be an issue.

And the law has never been about who's telling the truth. It's always been about who can convince a judge or jury that they're telling the truth. And if the Bon Jovi group publicly says they won't move the team and submits a bid that only discusses the team being in Buffalo, then the trust can convince the judge/jury that they had no idea the group would move the team.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to engage in a debate with someone who thinks that liars don't win in court (and can't even spell "liars" correctly).

[better days]

If the pockets of NYS were as deep as you say, they'd be ponying up for a new stadium and this wouldn't be an issue.

And the law has never been about who's telling the truth. It's always been about who can convince a judge or jury that they're telling the truth. And if the Bon Jovi group publicly says they won't move the team and submits a bid that only discusses the team being in Buffalo, then the trust can convince the judge/jury that they had no idea the group would move the team.

I don't even know why I'm bothering to engage in a debate with someone who thinks that liars don't win in court (and can't even spell "liars" correctly).

Excuse my grammar. Never made a mistke in you lifee did yu?

What does a new Stadium have to do with the Bills being sold?

The point is Bon Jovi & the Toronto group have to convince the 4 members of the trust they are not lying.

How do you think they will do with that?

And a lower offer can be a better offer if it is ALL CASH while the higher offer is a payment plan.

[OpIv37]

Excuse my grammar. Never made a mistke in you lifee did yu?

What does a new Stadium have to do with the Bills being sold?

The point is Bon Jovi & the Toronto group have to convince the 4 members of the trust they are not lying.

How do you think they will do with that?

And a lower offer can be a better offer if it is ALL CASH while the higher offer is a payment plan.

If the Bon Jovi group says they won't move the team publicly, and the bid makes no mention of moving the team, then it is VERY easy to convince a judge or jury that they thought they were not lying.

And I never said anything about a new stadium, but for what it's worth: the team needs a new stadium within the next 10 years whether they move or not. If they had a viable stadium in Buffalo, it makes staying a lot cheaper than moving, but they don't.

[better days]

If the Bon Jovi group says they won't move the team publicly, and the bid makes no mention of moving the team, then it is VERY easy to convince a judge or jury that they thought they were not lying.

And I never said anything about a new stadium, but for what it's worth: the team needs a new stadium within the next 10 years whether they move or not. If they had a viable stadium in Buffalo, it makes staying a lot cheaper than moving, but they don't.

#1 the Toronto group would have to convince the trust to sell them the team.

At this point, I am more concerned about someone buying the Bills with secret intentions of moving them to LA than I am about the Toronto group.

[Goobylal]

It's about money.

I'd like some proof as to why some of you think the best bid and the highest bid are different things.
Where is your proof that they'll sell to the highest bidder? Has every NFL team been sold to the highest bidder, or the best bidder?

If the Bon Jovi group says they won't move the team publicly, and the bid makes no mention of moving the team, then it is VERY easy to convince a judge or jury that they thought they were not lying.

And I never said anything about a new stadium, but for what it's worth: the team needs a new stadium within the next 10 years whether they move or not. If they had a viable stadium in Buffalo, it makes staying a lot cheaper than moving, but they don't.
LOL! And you're lecturing bd on naivete?

BTW, Pegula's bid topped $1B.

[OpIv37]

#1 the Toronto group would have to convince the trust to sell them the team.

At this point, I am more concerned about someone buying the Bills with secret intentions of moving them to LA than I am about the Toronto group.

I would have thought that LA was a better option than TO too, especially after the disastrous Bills in Toronto series.

But, there has been no momentum behind LA. When Ralph first died, there was all this talk of a new stadium in LA, and LA-based buyers interested in the team, but it just died. The Toronto stuff just keeps coming up in the news over and over again. I can't say for sure that there is no LA group that submitted a bid, but if there is, they've done a VERY good job of staying out of the news.

And the NFL seems to have a hard-on for international expansion. You've said yourself that people in LA are already football fans even though there's no team. The NFL has basically saturated the US market, so the only way to truly grow is to attempt to go international with a sport that the whole world views as American. Canada would be a good start, because there are NFL fans there and they have the CFL. The rest of the world just views American football as some American indulgence and they don't give a ****.

It would be nice to summarily dismiss the Toronto group, but I just don't think that's realistic.

[WagonCircler]

What asswipes like Fletch and Spikey don't understand is that this isn't just about money. And it isn't just about metropolitan population. And it isn't just about what owners like Jerry Jones would like to see happen.

It's about politics.

I detest Chuck Schumer, but for once, I'm glad to have him on my side. And there's no way in hell the State of New York is going to lose a third football team. There are a number of serious weapons at the State's disposal, and they can make the NFL say uncle.

The NFL doesn't have an anti-trust exemption. They live off the one granted to Major League Baseball, which is to say that the very existence of the monopoly that is the NFL exists at the whim of the federal government.

This team isn't going anywhere. Cry me a fahking river Fletch. Your dreams are dying.

[Goobylal]

Fletch wants the team to move?

[WagonCircler]

Fletch wants the team to move?

Yes. He and Spiked are playing passive aggressive little ***** games, slamming Buffalo at every turn, while weakly claiming not to want the team to move. When he says "this isn't very encouraging" he means "this is AWESOME!"

[trapezeus]

Those teams are not for sale.

Sabres weren't for sale either, but we got a new owner under the cover of night.

if bon jovi wants any NFL team and only wants big profit centers to play in, why not make a bid on a team with no lease issues, and move to LA (a place he's spent a lot of time) and not deal with the headaches of moving a team in a strong lease.

[Goobylal]

Yes. He and Spiked are playing passive aggressive little ***** games, slamming Buffalo at every turn, while weakly claiming not to want the team to move. When he says "this isn't very encouraging" he means "this is AWESOME!"
Pathetic if true. But I'll give them a chance to defend themselves.

[TigerJ]

Toronto is Canada's largest metropolitan area and compares favorably to a number of current NFL cities in terms of its infrastructure's suitability for hosting an NFL team. However, all of that is irrelevant as per the terms of Ralph Wilson's will.

[Bill Cody]

Toronto is Canada's largest metropolitan area and compares favorably to a number of current NFL cities in terms of its infrastructure's suitability for hosting an NFL team. However, all of that is irrelevant as per the terms of Ralph Wilson's will.

No one has seen Ralph's will and you have no idea what's in it. You have no idea what the trust says either. Nobody does.

[Fletch]

Toronto is Canada's largest metropolitan area and compares favorably to a number of current NFL cities in terms of its infrastructure's suitability for hosting an NFL team. However, all of that is irrelevant as per the terms of Ralph Wilson's will.

You mean the trust, there's a difference there.

We should be hearing more about what's in that trust here soon. Things are going to have to start moving along at a quick pace here soon if the timeframes that we've been hearing are going to happen.

Right now it would seem that there's a lot to be optimistic about though. If it works out against us though, it would hardly be the first time that we as fans were told one thing but the opposite unfolded.

[WagonCircler]

Sabres weren't for sale either, but we got a new owner under the cover of night..

And the guy who made that happen is on OUR side. The mulleted little *****/wannabe rock star doesn't make that happen. Our guy did, and he can do it again.

[trapezeus]

just saying, bon jovi's only option isn't the buffalo bills. there are three teams without a lease and two of them are staring LA right in the face. And the whole, "we won't move, just show up can be strung along as a stadium is built. Whereas they can't do that in buffalo because the second ground is broken, people give up.

it gives them the excitement of extorting one fanbase, while firing up another. and frankly bon jovi has jerry jones and kraft on his side. i'm sure they can help play the "we aren't moving a team into LA, we are expanding into LA. and then when the stadium is complete, they just move the team."

[Zero]

The trust most certainly does care whether the team moves. Otherwise there would have been no need for a trust and the team would have been put up for auction to the highest bidder.

And this.

They also originally said they wanted to move the team and and then they backtracked. Why do you think they did?

And John Wawrow did a report revealing they did a study on stadium sites in Ontario, meaning their plan is to move the team. The trust knows this/they're lying.

Yes I do. Terry Pegula. Hear me now, realize I was right later.


I don't share in your optimism but I sincerely hope you are right. I don't see how this team stays in Buffalo long term ig Bon Jovi and his camp acquire the Bills so we need Pegula to come up big...

[Goobylal]

just saying, bon jovi's only option isn't the buffalo bills. there are three teams without a lease and two of them are staring LA right in the face. And the whole, "we won't move, just show up can be strung along as a stadium is built. Whereas they can't do that in buffalo because the second ground is broken, people give up.

it gives them the excitement of extorting one fanbase, while firing up another. and frankly bon jovi has jerry jones and kraft on his side. i'm sure they can help play the "we aren't moving a team into LA, we are expanding into LA. and then when the stadium is complete, they just move the team."
Considering the Bills will be sold for at least $1.3B, and they're one of the lowest valued franchises, BJ has almost no shot to be an NFL owner.

I don't share in your optimism but I sincerely hope you are right. I don't see how this team stays in Buffalo long term ig Bon Jovi and his camp acquire the Bills so we need Pegula to come up big...
BJ's bid is pretty much at his max. And Pegula has more money to throw in if he needs to. The team is his. Hear me now, believe me later.

[HAMMER]

Why do I keep hearing the trust says this, the lease says that, but NO ONE has shown anything that backs either assertion. Hmmm.

[better days]

Why do I keep hearing the trust says this, the lease says that, but NO ONE has shown anything that backs either assertion. Hmmm.

Nobody really has any idea what the trust says, but the lease is a matter of Public record & after it was signed, it was made public for all interested in it to see.

[WagonCircler]

I don't think there's anything funnier than watching the pussies here who are desperately rooting for the Bills to move (especially those who transparently pretend otherwise) go down in flames. Grasping at straws, flailing in the wind "But...but....but....you never know! They could reopen the bidding process and some Saudi Sheik might buy the team and move then to Mississauga!" "Maybe Pegula has dead bodies buried in his oil fields!"

Suck it. Suck it. Suck it.