Buffalo Bills Sale Has Turned Into A Circus

[Fletch]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2014/08/01/buffalo-bills-sale-has-turned-into-a-circus/

The sale of the Buffalo Bills has evolved into an event Ringling Bros and Barnum & Baily (http://www.ringling.com/) would have been proud of.

[More at link]

[Fletch]

Funny piece.

[Night Train]

"Here’s what I think: Pegula has not as of yet offered anything close to $1.3 billion. Trump stands about as much of a chance as being approved by the league to buy the Bills as I do, and the Toronto group is maybe at $1.1 billion."



Yeah, he's got his finger on the pulse of reality.

[jimmifli]

Click bait. No information, just trying to steal some sports traffic by being a dick. Don't click it. Don't read it. Don't play with dicks.

[Dr. Lecter]

Or maybe the deadline was not a solid deadline at first. Or maybe they want more than 2 "real" bidders (excluding Trump)

The guy could be right. But he seems to speculate a lot and likes to throw out terms like circus to sensationalize the process</SPAN>

[SpikedLemonade]

But a funny thing happened. There was scant interest in buying the Bills. Of the 60 non-disclosure agreements Morgan Stanley sent out, only three offers have come in–Bon Jovi’s band, Trump and Pegula.

That is the part that should be of concern to the Bills remaining in Buffalo after the current lease expires.

It looks like Pegula will be purchasing the Bills now, but to assume he will then put in his own money into a new stadium for a team that is unattractive to purchase is a huge leap in faith.

The economic fundamentals are simply not there can be the only reason interest in purchasing the Bills and keeping them in Buffalo is so low.

[TedMock]

Click bait. No information, just trying to steal some sports traffic by being a dick. Don't click it. Don't read it. Don't play with dicks.

I don't know whether he knows something or not. I've never been a fan of his writing, so I generally avoid it. I just feel that he fancies himself as witty and comical when he is neither. He's generally annoying in my opinion, so I didn't read the article once I saw who the author was. Other than that, I actually enjoy most of Forbes' writers.

[better days]

But a funny thing happened. There was scant interest in buying the Bills. Of the 60 non-disclosure agreements Morgan Stanley sent out, only three offers have come in–Bon Jovi’s band, Trump and Pegula.

That is the part that should be of concern to the Bills remaining in Buffalo after the current lease expires.

It looks like Pegula will be purchasing the Bills now, but to assume he will then put in his own money into a new stadium for a team that is unattractive to purchase is a huge leap in faith.

The economic fundamentals are simply not there can be the only reason interest in purchasing the Bills and keeping them in Buffalo is so low.


No concern at all to Bills fans.

Most likely only three offers because of restrictions tied into the sale of the Bills & everyone knows Pegula will get the team...................& keep it in BUFFALO.


SUCK IT.

[SpikedLemonade]

No concern at all to Bills fans.

Most likely only three offers because of restrictions tied into the sale of the Bills & everyone knows Pegula will get the team...................& keep it in BUFFALO.


SUCK IT.

Since you are the one that believes the Bills are a charity case perhaps it is you that should do the sucking.

[EDS]

Having been involved in numerous M&A auctions as part of my day job, I think the piece in the article about extending bid deadlines is a bit disengenous. Even in non-robust auctions where there are a limited number of bidders there is typically a second round of the process where additional due diligence materials are made available to the bidders who are chosen to move to the next round.

For sure, the bankers and everyone else involved will try and use Trump and the Bon-Jovi group to drive up the price Pegula is willing to pay. No doubt he is the preferred bidder at this point (there usually is).

[Fletch]

Or maybe the deadline was not a solid deadline at first. Or maybe they want more than 2 "real" bidders (excluding Trump)

The guy could be right. But he seems to speculate a lot and likes to throw out terms like circus to sensationalize the process

They've confirmed that from day one. Even the local articles have said that the trust has within its authority to change the dates/deadlines.

Whether they will or not, and it sounds like they may, is another thing.

[better days]

Since you are the one that believes the Bills are a charity case perhaps it is you that should do the sucking.

I NEVER said they were a Charity case......................you did.

I said people that LOVED BUFFALO & the BILLS would make sure the team stayed in BUFFALO.

Now run/skip along & suck on your gay girly drink Spiked Lemonade.

[Dr. Lecter]

But a funny thing happened. There was scant interest in buying the Bills. Of the 60 non-disclosure agreements Morgan Stanley sent out, only three offers have come in–Bon Jovi’s band, Trump and Pegula.

That is the part that should be of concern to the Bills remaining in Buffalo after the current lease expires.

It looks like Pegula will be purchasing the Bills now, but to assume he will then put in his own money into a new stadium for a team that is unattractive to purchase is a huge leap in faith.

The economic fundamentals are simply not there can be the only reason interest in purchasing the Bills and keeping them in Buffalo is so low.


Or, alternatively, some of these people got scared off because of how serious Pegula is and they decided not to worry about.

I don't know if that is the truth or not, but it is certainly feasible

[SpikedLemonade]

Even in non-robust auctions where there are a limited number of bidders there is typically a second round of the process where additional due diligence materials are made available to the bidders who are chosen to move to the next round.


That was planned and is still happening. The Bills are to give more financial disclosure and then the bidders are to make binding bids.

That hasn't changed.

What has changed is an extension of the initial deadline in an attempt to obtain more than 3 bidders.

There is nothing wrong with that but it is only done when the process does not get enough initial bidders.

[SpikedLemonade]

Or, alternatively, some of these people got scared off because of how serious Pegula is and they decided not to worry about.

I don't know if that is the truth or not, but it is certainly feasible

I figured that would be the spin, but the truth is if the Bills were that attractive in Buffalo, more big money would have showed up given how rarely NFL teams go up for sale.

[Fletch]

Having been involved in numerous M&A auctions as part of my day job, I think the piece in the article about extending bid deadlines is a bit disengenous. Even in non-robust auctions where there are a limited number of bidders there is typically a second round of the process where additional due diligence materials are made available to the bidders who are chosen to move to the next round.

For sure, the bankers and everyone else involved will try and use Trump and the Bon-Jovi group to drive up the price Pegula is willing to pay. No doubt he is the preferred bidder at this point (there usually is).

Come on though, it has to be nothing but disappointing that there were only 3 bidders and that one of them was Trump. I'm of the opinion, as are many, that Trump just put his two-cents in just to get in on the process for the headlines and just in case something like this happened, with few bidders.

Either way, there's a reason why there were not more bidders. I mean can you imagine the NY Giants being sold and only 3 bidders, one being Trump? I can't, not for a second.

There's a reason and the only thing that makes sense is that others were scared off by stipulations that may exist, likely that potentially poison-pill lease in Buffalo. It sounds good on paper for us fans, and it's a dam good thing that we have a guy like Pegula that's willing to overbid to keep the team here, bless his soul, but that's hardly normal.

As to the bankers involved, they'll take their directions from what's in the trust. Do we even know that it's a bidding process? Sounds to me like it's a secret bid process. There's a huge difference. Also, we still don't know, despite the claims of some people here, whether the trust is obligated to sell to the highest bidder. We really know very little to nothing despite how much some claim to know about it. We should learn more very soon, but if they extend this first round of bidding it'll be longer before we find out.

[Fletch]

Or, alternatively, some of these people got scared off because of how serious Pegula is and they decided not to worry about.

I don't know if that is the truth or not, but it is certainly feasible

Possibly, but what makes more sense to you, them being scared off because of that, or them being scared off because they would be forced to keep the team in Buffalo with an economy that's more suited to a welfare state than it is to economic development?

We all assume the best, but again, and looking at if from a potential owner's standpoint, maybe there was too much in the NDA material that made the business sense and aspect to the purchase of the team less than optimal to be kind.

[better days]

I figured that would be the spin, but the truth is if the Bills were that attractive in Buffalo, more big money would have showed up given how rarely NFL teams go up for sale.

There are few people that can match the money Pegula has that would also want to buy the team in Buffalo.

[Dr. Lecter]

I figured that would be the spin, but the truth is if the Bills were that attractive in Buffalo, more big money would have showed up given how rarely NFL teams go up for sale.

I don't think anybody would deny that a team could make more money elsewhere.

but, it certainly appears Ralph's last act with the team was to construct a lease and non-relocation agreement that made the team hard to move.

Of course, that is contrary to the spin that he did NOTHING to help keep the team here.

[Fletch]

That was planned and is still happening. The Bills are to give more financial disclosure and then the bidders are to make binding bids.

That hasn't changed.

What has changed is an extension of the initial deadline in an attempt to obtain more than 3 bidders.

There is nothing wrong with that but it is only done when the process does not get enough initial bidders.

And since the trust had the option of not extending that deadline, we are left to assume that they were not happy with that fact.

If their goal was to try to sell to Pegula, I have no idea why they'd want more bidders, it would seem to me that they'd have been happy to take Pegula's offer, which is more than that of the selling price of any other NFL team in history. If we had polled everyone as to whether or not the team would sell for more than the $1.1B that the Fins did, I doubt many would have said yes prior to this information.

[Dr. Lecter]

Possibly, but what makes more sense to you, them being scared off because of that, or them being scared off because they would be forced to keep the team in Buffalo with an economy that's more suited to a welfare state than it is to economic development?

We all assume the best, but again, and looking at if from a potential owner's standpoint, maybe there was too much in the NDA material that made the business sense and aspect to the purchase of the team less than optimal to be kind.


I don't deny that the team is more profitable elsewhere.

What I am disputing is his assertion that there are no other possible explanations.

Most likely it was a combination of several factors, including how high Pegula is willing to go. As well as the fact that this team is in a very small NFL market without a ton of money to earn revenue that is not to be shared

[better days]

Possibly, but what makes more sense to you, them being scared off because of that, or them being scared off because they would be forced to keep the team in Buffalo with an economy that's more suited to a welfare state than it is to economic development?

We all assume the best, but again, and looking at if from a potential owner's standpoint, maybe there was too much in the NDA material that made the business sense and aspect to the purchase of the team less than optimal to be kind.

At this point, Buffalo is very well suited for economic development.

No State tax for the first 10 years for any company starting up in Buffalo.

And Pegula is investing heavily in Buffalo.

[Fletch]

There are few people that can match the money Pegula has that would also want to buy the team in Buffalo.

So then why did the trust, assuming that it's their primary goal to find a buyer that would keep the team in Buffalo, now be asking for more bidders?

I mean if they wanted a lot of money for the team, and it's pretty clear that Pegula's going to offer at least $1B even if the rumored $1.3B bid is inaccurate, but they wanted to keep the team in Buffalo, then given that the odds of that happening are the greatest with only 3 bidders one of which is Pegula, then why are they extending the initial round of bidding to attempt to get more bids and therefore more candidates to be the next owner?

[SpikedLemonade]

There are few people that can match the money Pegula has that would also want to buy the team in Buffalo.


Why is that?

Are you not reading here about the economic renaissance in Buffalo that is changing the **** stain of a dying city?

If those posts were true, wouldn't more bidders want a piece of that growth?

Do realize that after a 50+ years of declining population, Buffalo's population increased for the first time year over year in 2013?

[Fletch]

I don't think anybody would deny that a team could make more money elsewhere.

but, it certainly appears Ralph's last act with the team was to construct a lease and non-relocation agreement that made the team hard to move.

Of course, that is contrary to the spin that he did NOTHING to help keep the team here.

No one said that he did NOTHING to keep the team here. What we've heard for years is that he did all that he could to keep the team here, which is clearly a lie. He could have sold it himself to an owner willing to keep it here, and for whatever he wanted. At this point $600M, $1B, $1.5B, it's irrelevant. His family could live like kings forever if they sold the team for $100M. Money clearly was no object.

Why does everyone try to twist the words of critics and others?

[SpikedLemonade]

I don't think anybody would deny that a team could make more money elsewhere.

but, it certainly appears Ralph's last act with the team was to construct a lease and non-relocation agreement that made the team hard to move.

Of course, that is contrary to the spin that he did NOTHING to help keep the team here.

There is no question that the lease extends the Bills life in Buffalo, but I question if that is what was Ralph's main intention as opposed to getting a great deal on leasehold improvements and good rent.

After all, he had no plans to move the team while in his 90's so why not get what you can for the stadium.

[Fletch]

I don't deny that the team is more profitable elsewhere.

What I am disputing is his assertion that there are no other possible explanations.

Most likely it was a combination of several factors, including how high Pegula is willing to go. As well as the fact that this team is in a very small NFL market without a ton of money to earn revenue that is not to be shared

Fair enough, but again, the best case scenario for the trust, assuming that it's their goal as directed to keep the team in Buffalo, would be to have few bidders and Pegula (or Golisano) among them, but at least one or the other, not necessarily both.

They have that. If the goal of keeping the team here, which many people insist is in the instructions to the trust, is primary, then they had a best case scenario. Now they're looking to alter that for the worse.

Why?

[better days]

Why is that?

Are you not reading here about the economic renaissance in Buffalo that is changing the **** stain of a dying city?

If those posts were true, wouldn't more bidders want a piece of that growth?

Do realize that after a 50+ years of declining population, Buffalo's population increased for the first time year over year in 2013?

I explained to you before CIVIC PRIDE. Pegula lives in Buffalo & has CIVIC PRIDE in Buffalo.

No outsider has civic pride in a city they have nothing to do with.

And people in Hell want Ice Water or Cold Spiked Lemonade that doesn't mean they will get it.

As I said before, FEW people can match Pegula's money.

[Fletch]

At this point, Buffalo is very well suited for economic development.

No State tax for the first 10 years for any company starting up in Buffalo.

And Pegula is investing heavily in Buffalo.

Yeah, and with the Bills moving to Buffalo and starting up ...

Oh, wait ...

Really?

[Zero]

"Here’s what I think: Pegula has not as of yet offered anything close to $1.3 billion. Trump stands about as much of a chance as being approved by the league to buy the Bills as I do, and the Toronto group is maybe at $1.1 billion."

Yeah, he's got his finger on the pulse of reality.



That an interestingly unique perspective. Too bad he fails to elaborate on his reasons for feeling this way, and in doing so he falls short on adding anything new to the table. Nothing to read here folks...

[Dr. Lecter]

There is no question that the lease extends the Bills life in Buffalo, but I question if that is what was Ralph's main intention as opposed to getting a great deal on leasehold improvements and good rent.

After all, he had no plans to move the team while in his 90's so why not get what you can for the stadium.

The non relocation agreement is separate and definitely makes the team very difficult to move.

The intent of that agreement can only be to keep the team here after he died.

[better days]

Yeah, and with the Bills moving to Buffalo and starting up ...

Oh, wait ...

Really?

I would expect Pegula to get a new Stadium built in an area he is developing in Buffalo.

I was talking about money Pegula has already invested in Buffalo.

[Dr. Lecter]

Fair enough, but again, the best case scenario for the trust, assuming that it's their goal as directed to keep the team in Buffalo, would be to have few bidders and Pegula (or Golisano) among them, but at least one or the other, not necessarily both.

They have that. If the goal of keeping the team here, which many people insist is in the instructions to the trust, is primary, then they had a best case scenario. Now they're looking to alter that for the worse.

Why?


Because right now they only have two real bids (discount Trump who is not real) and one of those will move the team. I think there is a real intent on keeping the team here, but they also are not going to not try and have competition.

[SpikedLemonade]

The non relocation agreement is separate and definitely makes the team very difficult to move.

The intent of that agreement can only be to keep the team here after he died.

Separate?

Are you saying the county and state would have contributed so much money into leaseholds and agree to such a low rent if they did not have a relocation agreement?

It may be a separate agreement, but trust me that it was all one negotiated agreement.

[Fletch]

There is no question that the lease extends the Bills life in Buffalo, but I question if that is what was Ralph's main intention as opposed to getting a great deal on leasehold improvements and good rent.

After all, he had no plans to move the team while in his 90's so why not get what you can for the stadium.

Good point. Here's the thing though, even with the renovations, the stadium still has major issues and sorely needs a new stadium which Goodell himself has insisted.

Owners are hamstrung with being forced to stay here under that circumstance. It doesn't even make sense to build a new stadium here now given the existing lease.

IDK, but no one can convince me that the primary reason that there were not more bidders is because as a business investment, and given the constraints, this just isn't as attractive as it could be.

If Ralph really wanted to do the most to keep the team here, he should have sold it to someone willing to do so, Pegula or Golisano, while he was alive, and before doing renovations on the current stadium so that plans for a new one could have been drawn up and the money put towards renovations by the state could have gone towards that.

Now, as this author says, and like him or not, this has turned into a virtual circus. Everything else about us has been a circus, why not this too.

[better days]

No one said that he did NOTHING to keep the team here. What we've heard for years is that he did all that he could to keep the team here, which is clearly a lie. He could have sold it himself to an owner willing to keep it here, and for whatever he wanted. At this point $600M, $1B, $1.5B, it's irrelevant. His family could live like kings forever if they sold the team for $100M. Money clearly was no object.

Why does everyone try to twist the words of critics and others?

Yeah sure Ralph could have sold the team before he died & he would have paid taxes TWICE on that money. Once when the team was sold & again after he died.

Ralph was not a Stupid man.

[Fletch]

I would expect Pegula to get a new Stadium built in an area he is developing in Buffalo.

I was talking about money Pegula has already invested in Buffalo.

You know, everyone talks about Pegula as if he just doesn't care about how he spends his money and whether he gets a return on it or not.

I'm not sure that's a great assumption. It sounds as if he's willing to go above and beyond, but this talk of him overspending for the team by potentially $500-$700M, then building his own stadium which would likely cost in the area of $1B, as it it's chump change and that he never cares of he ever recoups any of that is taking some serious liberties.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Can you guys just stop it already?

[Fletch]

I would expect Pegula to get a new Stadium built in an area he is developing in Buffalo.

I was talking about money Pegula has already invested in Buffalo.

Seriously?

Absolutely nothing related to the Bills could possibly be considered "starting up" in Buffalo. Honestly!

[SpikedLemonade]

I would expect Pegula to get a new Stadium built in an area he is developing in Buffalo.

I don't know if he will get the stadium built, but I can see him saying to the various levels of government that he has done his part buying the team and he expects them to fund at least 60% of the cost of a new stadium.

He will become resistant to putting in his own funds into a new stadium as he sees what happens when he raises Bills ticket prices over the next 6 years.

[better days]

Can you guys just stop it already?

It is too funny to see them grasp at the last straw & watch it slip through their fingers.

[better days]

I don't know if he will get the stadium built, but I can see him saying to the various levels of government that he has done his part buying the team and he expects them to fund at least 60% of the cost of a new stadium.

He will become resistant to putting in his own funds into a new stadium as he sees what happens when he raises Bills ticket prices over the next 6 years.

As I said before, an $11 increase will put the Bills at the upper end of what 25 NFL teams charge.

[SpikedLemonade]

As I said before, an $11 increase will put the Bills at the upper end of what 25 NFL teams charge.

I don't trust your calculations but if true it is only if you exclude premium seats and corporate boxes.

The truth is that the Bills have the cheapest tickets in the NFL other than Cleveland and Cleveland has more revenue coming from premium seats and corporate boxes than the Bills.

[Skooby]

The deadline was a lifeline.

[Fletch]

Because right now they only have two real bids (discount Trump who is not real) and one of those will move the team. I think there is a real intent on keeping the team here, but they also are not going to not try and have competition.

But it's also pretty clear that Bon Jovi's ceiling is too low to beat out Pegula. So if those are the only two bidders we all acknowledge that Pegula's a shoe-in.

By introducing new bidders they only risk having Pegula get outbid. Why would they care about that if the primary goal is to sell to an owner that truly wants to keep the team in Buffalo?

You did not answer the question. I'll put it another way, they have competition, from the Toronto group, which has pushed the price tag high enough. And by insisting that, you're implying that the priority is "highest bidder," not "keeping the team in Buffalo."

So again, put another way, how does soliciting new and additional bids, and clearly not only from Golisano who still may not even bid, particularly if he was purely bidding to keep the team here when Pegula is now doing that, help keep the team in Buffalo?

Because the logic says plainly, the more bidders, the more likely that Pegula doesn't win. This isn't complicated.

I see absolutely nothing but lawsuits and a long drawn out process of appeals and the like if they solicit more bidders purely to drive Pegula's price up, then if he's not the highest bidder they award it to him anyway. That would be highly disingenuous and unethical. I don't see it happening. Which would mean that "keeping the team in Buffalo" likely isn't a significant part of the trust's instructions and that the only thing keeping the team here for the future would be this 10 year lease with its buyout clause that can be exercised after the 2019 season, and which I would see getting exercised if anyone but Pegula wins the bid.

Initially I was excited to hear the news about Pegula's bid and only three bidders. I thought that this was a best case scenario. Now this, soliciting more bids. I'm no longer nearly as excited. To me this stinks.

[Fletch]

I don't know if he will get the stadium built, but I can see him saying to the various levels of government that he has done his part buying the team and he expects them to fund at least 60% of the cost of a new stadium.

He will become resistant to putting in his own funds into a new stadium as he sees what happens when he raises Bills ticket prices over the next 6 years.

Yeah, but you know that that's unreasonable, 60%. No NFL team has gotten that and certainly no teams in NYS including the Yankees, which are far more important to NYS and which have a far more extensive history both in terms of success/winning and of longetivity, not to mention classic names and such.

So if I read you right, you're saying that Pegula's doing this "from his end," but then on the back end he's going to be telling the state (and county to a lesser extent) that looking beyond 2022 they're going to have to ante-up?

That doesn't sound like the Pegula that has been pitched to me.

[better days]

I don't trust your calculations but if true it is only if you exclude premium seats and corporate boxes.

The truth is that the Bills have the cheapest tickets in the NFL other than Cleveland and Cleveland has more revenue coming from premium seats and corporate boxes than the Bills.

The Jags also have cheaper seats than the Bills as of now according to CBS sports.com.

And yes average ticket price is only for general admission seats.

So Pegula won't make as much as Jerry Jones on sale of seats.................few people do.

[SpikedLemonade]

So Pegula won't make as much as Jerry Jones on sale of seats.................few people do.

Pegula won't make as much money as any other NFL owner and yet you expect him to use his own money for a new stadium?

Never going to happen.

Pegula will tell Goodall to shut up about a new stadium and just play in the Ralph until it literally crumbles.

[better days]

Pegula won't make as much money as any other NFL owner and yet you expect him to use his own money for a new stadium?

Never going to happen.

Pegula will tell Goodall to shut up about a new stadium and just play in the Ralph until it literally crumbles.

No I don't expect Pegula to pay the entire cost of a new Stadium.

But I do expect a new Stadium to be built in the next decade....................in WNY.

[SpikedLemonade]

No I don't expect Pegula to pay the entire cost of a new Stadium.

But I do expect a new Stadium to be built in the next decade....................in WNY.

Then grandpa you need to come home and start paying taxes in WNY along with another couple hundred thousand other people who have left Buffalo for greener pastures.

[Fletch]

Pegula won't make as much money as any other NFL owner and yet you expect him to use his own money for a new stadium?

Never going to happen.

Pegula will tell Goodall to shut up about a new stadium and just play in the Ralph until it literally crumbles.

Yeah, something's gonna give. I just don't see Pegula shelling out $2B+ of his own money on a team and a new stadium when he has zero chance of ever recouping that as long as the team remains in Buffalo.

One thing that we're all overlooking, or at least most of us are overlooking, is what I think you implied earlier, that he's taking the first step to keep the team here and is going to put the ball in the court of the state and county in several years to do its share. If you think about it, who could argue. He's the only one that anyone had the faith in to keep the team here. According to everyone here anyone else (BJ/Tannenbaum Group or Trump) will move the team for sure.

He'll have done what Wilson could easily have done while Wilson was alive, while simultaneously having had a new owner back then put some of the extra cash that Pegula will have had to spend just to get the team now, into a stadium instead, which coupled with what the state provided for the renovation, may very well have been enough to have gotten us that new stadium that's required.

[Fletch]

No I don't expect Pegula to pay the entire cost of a new Stadium.

But I do expect a new Stadium to be built in the next decade....................in WNY.

So in essence, you're ignoring any and all history in the matter, ignoring what NYS's governor has said, ignoring the fact that any contribution by Erie County is negligible, and insisting that they're all going to pony up a good portion of the cost of a new stadium.

Got it.

Think this over. Wilson while he was alive, and before signing that stupid $150M renovation deal (I think it was), could have sold the team to Pegula for the estimated value of $870M, hell, let's round up and say $900M.

That would have left Pegula $400M off his current bid, which according to all the cheerleaders here he's willing to pay much more, so maybe more than that $400M.

Throw in that $150 that the state (and county?) paid for the renovation resulting in nothing but a 10-year lease with an out after 7, and that would have been at least $550M towards a new stadium. I find that a lot more palatable to anyone than $1.3B or upwards for the team and nothing or much less from the state and nothing significant from the county and another $800M to $1B needed for a stadium.

But again, yeah, Ralph did all he could to keep the team in Buffalo. Let's face it, Ralph was serving Ralph, no one else.

Instead we get this scenario.

[Mr. Pink]

I love how people who don't live here think some great renaissance is happening.

Buffalo is great...but it's the same place it was in 2004 and the same place it was in 1994.

[Dr. Lecter]

I love how people who don't live here think some great renaissance is happening.

Buffalo is great...but it's the same place it was in 2004 and the same place it was in 1994.


Even with the expansion of the medical center and the news on the renewable energy place?

I am not saying that there is a great resurgance, but saying it is the same place is just flat out wrong.

[SpikedLemonade]

I love how people who don't live here think some great renaissance is happening.

Buffalo is great...but it's the same place it was in 2004 and the same place it was in 1994.

It is due to the guilt they feel for leaving Buffalo for greener pastures.

[SpikedLemonade]

Even with the expansion of the medical center and the news on the renewable energy place?


Lipstick on a pig.

I was shocked what my hometown of Hamilton has become when I toured it recently, but it is nothing compared to what I saw of my tour of downtown Buffalo last September.

[Dr. Lecter]

But it's also pretty clear that Bon Jovi's ceiling is too low to beat out Pegula. So if those are the only two bidders we all acknowledge that Pegula's a shoe-in.

By introducing new bidders they only risk having Pegula get outbid. Why would they care about that if the primary goal is to sell to an owner that truly wants to keep the team in Buffalo?

You did not answer the question. I'll put it another way, they have competition, from the Toronto group, which has pushed the price tag high enough. And by insisting that, you're implying that the priority is "highest bidder," not "keeping the team in Buffalo."

So again, put another way, how does soliciting new and additional bids, and clearly not only from Golisano who still may not even bid, particularly if he was purely bidding to keep the team here when Pegula is now doing that, help keep the team in Buffalo?

Because the logic says plainly, the more bidders, the more likely that Pegula doesn't win. This isn't complicated.

I see absolutely nothing but lawsuits and a long drawn out process of appeals and the like if they solicit more bidders purely to drive Pegula's price up, then if he's not the highest bidder they award it to him anyway. That would be highly disingenuous and unethical. I don't see it happening. Which would mean that "keeping the team in Buffalo" likely isn't a significant part of the trust's instructions and that the only thing keeping the team here for the future would be this 10 year lease with its buyout clause that can be exercised after the 2019 season, and which I would see getting exercised if anyone but Pegula wins the bid.

Initially I was excited to hear the news about Pegula's bid and only three bidders. I thought that this was a best case scenario. Now this, soliciting more bids. I'm no longer nearly as excited. To me this stinks.

Of course the more bidders it will, at least in theory, make it harder for Pegula. But that assumes that somebody else jumps in. Or that people were not scared off by him. Allowing more time for initial (non-binding) bids to come only gives them another chance to get actual competition. As was explained, if there are only two bids and one drops out then the remaining guy can low ball and they are stuck. Keeping multiple people going for it will make Pegule remain "honest". So it might not be about the highest bid, but also about not getting a minimal return.

As for there being lawsuits and the such if the bring more bids and still award to Pegula that depends, as many of us have explained to you and others numerous times, if his bid is compliant with the trust then there are no suits.

[Dr. Lecter]

Lipstick on a pig.

I was shocked what my hometown of Hamilton has become when I toured it recently, but it is nothing compared to what I saw of my tour of downtown Buffalo last September.


And how much do you know about either project?

You might as well explain both to us, because clearly you know more about it.

[SpikedLemonade]

And how much do you know about either project?

You might as well explain both to us, because clearly you know more about it.

Only what I read. I hope it is all that you think it will be, but that city needs a lot of lipstick.

[Dr. Lecter]

Only what I read. I hope it is all that you think it will be, but that city needs a lot of lipstick.


And what did you read?

Have you also seen the improvements in the downtown area at Canalside? The Phillips Lytle building? The Harbor Center?

I am not saying Buffalo is totally fixed. But to not acknowledge that there are positives lately is foolish.

[better days]

Then grandpa you need to come home and start paying taxes in WNY along with another couple hundred thousand other people who have left Buffalo for greener pastures.

LMAO at you. I support the Bills & the NFL from Fla.

I have spent a LOT of money over the years doing that.

And how much in taxes are you going to pay for a new Stadium up in Canada?

How much do you spend a year supporting the Bills?

[SpikedLemonade]

How much do you spend a year supporting the Bills?

Less and less.

[WagonCircler]

Hahahahaha!!!!

Felch and Spikey and those dreaming of the Bills moving are getting so desperate! Dream on, *****es.

This team is staying right here, where it belongs.

[Pinkerton Security]

NEWS FLASH: This was an opinion piece. The whole story came down to the guy saying: "Heres what I think".

WHO CARES! Lets just see how it plays out. Everyone shut up.

[swiper]

I agree with NBS. These threads get mind-numbing really quickly. The "They'll move over my dead body" wishers vs. the Canadians and people that think they're bound to move. We have to wait and see. Writing "the Bills aren't moving" a hundred times isn't going to make it so.

[Ed]

Maybe Trump and Bon Jovi are just a couple clowns making this seem like a circus, but Pegula is the real deal. Whether or not other groups want to bid or not is irrelevant. It was always going to be Pegula, it's just a question of how much he'll have to pay.

[Jan Reimers]

Forbes has no idea of what Pegula, Trump or the Toronto Carpetbaggers bid. If the reports of Pegula's bid of $1.3 Billion are accurate, the Bills will sell for the highest price in NFL history.

I fail to see how a process resulting in a sale of this magnitude is a "circus."

[Fletch]

NEWS FLASH: This was an opinion piece. The whole story came down to the guy saying: "Heres what I think".

WHO CARES! Lets just see how it plays out. Everyone shut up.

Agreed. But the problems start when people start lecturing others using reasoning as facts that have never even been proven to be factual.

Here are some of the things we've heard by speculators here that have absolutely no basis for laying these out and without any reasoning as to why these things might be the case:

Mary Wilson can somehow dictate to the board of the trust what Ralph's wishes were posthumously. That cannot possibly be the case legally.

The trust can sell to whomever they want regardless of the size of the bid. We don't know that, we haven't been told a thing officially about the trust in terms of selling the team.

Pegula's willing to bid whatever it takes. We also have not heard this confirmed via any source, it's all rumors. The $1.3B figure is also a rumor for the most part, a widely reported one, but there's been nothing official released from what I've read.

That Pegula's perfectly willing to buy the team for "whatever it takes" even if it's $2B, and then on top of whatever he spends to get the team, he'll be perfectly fine with shelling out another $800M to $1B to build a stadium with his own money.

Pegula doesn't care if he makes a profit. We also don't know this.

That the state is going to put up anything significant to build a stadium when the governor has already said it won't happen. How on earth can anyone (better days for example) claim that the state will. That's pure speculation at its finest.

You're right, we'll know when we know. In the meantime, pardon those of us that take issue with some of the brash and baseless assumptions that many are making here.

In the meantime, if as one poster says above that it's all about Pegula, then why are they considering extending the original deadline, again, another rumor, in that case? I mean if it's all about Pegula, then they should be happy that he bid and that so few others did. If they do extend the deadline, then clearly that's not the case.

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I love how people who don't live here think some great renaissance is happening.

Buffalo is great...but it's the same place it was in 2004 and the same place it was in 1994.

And worse than it was in 1964.

[Fletch]

Forbes has no idea of what Pegula, Trump or the Toronto Carpetbaggers bid.

Correct, and neither do we or anyone here. Yet some talk as if they know. All anyone is doing is reacting to rumors. We can't just take the positive rumors and act on those as if they're facts while dismissing any unfavorable news as meaningless like most posters here seem to want to do.

Or rather, we can, but it makes for ridiculous discussion.

[Dr. Lecter]

If you are talking about jimmi, he did not say that Mary can carry his wishes like that.

[Fletch]

It is due to the guilt they feel for leaving Buffalo for greener pastures.

They're thinking of their suburban neighborhoods that they grew up in, that's the same, so in their minds everything else is too. Except of course that 80% of their high school class lives in other states because they couldn't find jobs commensurate with their degrees.

[Fletch]

If you are talking about jimmi, he did not say that Mary can carry his wishes like that.

I'm talking about anyone that has expressed the notion that Mary Wilson can talk for her husband or that she can dictate to the trust what to do. That kind of thinking is so ridiculously childish that it should be deleted.

People talk about the trust like it's a kids club after school. A trust is a legal written document that is very specific. It's drafted by attorneys and typically sees to it to state what happens to something under certain conditions and circumstances. People here assume that Mary's some kind of heir, but the entire reason that there's a trust to begin with is because neither she nor anyone else in Wilson's family wanted the team after he died.

Which brings up another great point, they can't have all that much tie or affinity for the Bills and Buffalo if they have no interest in those things, can they, but everyone talks about Wilson's surviving family members as people that care more about us as fans than anyone else. There's no basis for that.

[Fletch]

I can't wait for this siht to end. The idiocy discussions surrounding this and the associated assumptions are ridiculous. Hopefully the team stays beyond 2019, but right now there are reasons to think that it might not.

And like I've been saying, it would really help if the new owner hires a real GM for a change who then staffs this team better than his predecessors. I mean who needs 35 seasons of playoff futility.

[WagonCircler]

but right now there are reasons to think that it might not..

Felch, there are far more concrete reason to think the will be here for decades.

[Fletch]

Felch, there are far more concrete reason to think the will be here for decades.

OK, I've named, in nauseating repetition due to people perpetually challenging it, why it might not.

Go ahead and give us the "concrete" reasons why they will? The only one that I can think of is that someone that is sentimental about the team that has the cash to buy them may overpay to do so, but that still does not solve the new stadium issue that Goodell is on record as saying we need to keep the team here.

So go ahead, list all those "concrete" reasons for us. If you can't, then do us a favor, quit talking about it as if there really are more concrete reasons for them staying than good solid reasons that clearly make more sense for a new owner to move the team.

You're on the clock!

[Dr. Who]

Really, if Pegula ends up buying the Bills and EJ plays well, more than half this board isn't going to have anything to talk about. The Pegula part is the most important part. I do not understand those who like to present "realist" cases why the city is a joke and the team won't stay. I think both are untrue. If I felt so negatively about something, I'd just keep it to myself. What kindness are you perpetuating?

On the other hand, I looked at Mike Florio's rumor site this morning. There was an article about Jim Kelly showing up for Andre Reed's induction into the Hall of Fame. Most had good things and best wishes for Jim. Yet a significant number (or one or two with multiple identities) voted thumbs down for Jim getting better. Some people get a weird thrill being a bastard.

[Dr. Lecter]

Fletch, do you currently live in the Buffalo area?

[Fletch]

Really, if Pegula ends up buying the Bills and EJ plays well, more than half this board isn't going to have anything to talk about. The Pegula part is the most important part. I do not understand those who like to present "realist" cases why the city is a joke and the team won't stay. I think both are untrue. If I felt so negatively about something, I'd just keep it to myself. What kindness are you perpetuating?

On the other hand, I looked at Mike Florio's rumor site this morning. There was an article about Jim Kelly showing up for Andre Reed's induction into the Hall of Fame. Most had good things and best wishes for Jim. Yet a significant number (or one or two with multiple identities) voted thumbs down for Jim getting better. Some people get a weird thrill being a bastard.

Well how about not treating anyone here as if they voted Jim down like that, to start.

Secondly, "if KneeJ plays well?" What, are you new to this team. We've been hearing "if this" and "if that" for years. Why don't you come back and lecture us all about who's going to be here and not when it actually happens. In the meantime let's defer to prior seasons where you likely said the exact same things about Edwards, TO, Mario, etc., and there's no shortage of "etc.'s", and then ask yourself who should or shouldn't be here now and who should or shouldn't be opening their mouth at all here anymore.

[THATHURMANATOR]

They're thinking of their suburban neighborhoods that they grew up in, that's the same, so in their minds everything else is too. Except of course that 80% of their high school class lives in other states because they couldn't find jobs commensurate with their degrees.

WTF are you talking about?

Virtually my entire group of friends from High school still live in the area and have good jobs. SHUT THE **** UP.

[Fletch]

By the way, Pegula is the most important part, right now. But to assume that he's going to bid $1.3B on the team, or more, and then build a new stadium for another $1B out of his own pocket is ridiculous. Do you or anyone else here speak for him?

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am from the Burbs and live in the city.

WHAT NOW?

[Fletch]

WTF are you talking about?

Virtually my entire group of friends from High school still live in the area and have good jobs. SHUT THE **** UP.

I'll tell you what, give us the name of your HS class and the year that you graduated. One quick call to the school should verify whether or not you're full of ****. I'm guessing that you are.

- - - Updated - - -


I am from the Burbs and live in the city.

WHAT NOW?

LOL

I call that an irrelevant sample size. In more ways than one.

[Dr. Lecter]

OK, I've named, in nauseating repetition due to people perpetually challenging it, why it might not.

Go ahead and give us the "concrete" reasons why they will? The only one that I can think of is that someone that is sentimental about the team that has the cash to buy them may overpay to do so, but that still does not solve the new stadium issue that Goodell is on record as saying we need to keep the team here.

So go ahead, list all those "concrete" reasons for us. If you can't, then do us a favor, quit talking about it as if there really are more concrete reasons for them staying than good solid reasons that clearly make more sense for a new owner to move the team.

You're on the clock!

Well, there is the entire lease and non relocation thing and how it impacts a team that buys a team that wants to move them in ~6 years. Would they do that knowing that their ROI is delayed like that? And knowing that in addition to spending 1 billion plus on a team, the money for a new stadium and the relocation fee to the NFL it is prohibitive.

[THATHURMANATOR]

By the way, Pegula is the most important part, right now. But to assume that he's going to bid $1.3B on the team, or more, and then build a new stadium for another $1B out of his own pocket is ridiculous. Do you or anyone else here speak for him?

I would assume he would pay a portion but taxpayers would get the rest.

We don't need a billion dollar stadium.

In fact from what I have seen and heard people are going be shocked at how nice the Ralph will be after this renovation. We might not need a new stadium for 10 years.

[Fletch]

Besides, STFU. It's nonsense like yours that adds absolutely nothing to conversations. All emotional bull****. Nothing concrete, no facts, just beer-muscled "I'm a better fan than you are" bull****.

[Dr. Lecter]

By the way, Pegula is the most important part, right now. But to assume that he's going to bid $1.3B on the team, or more, and then build a new stadium for another $1B out of his own pocket is ridiculous. Do you or anyone else here speak for him?


Yes. I do. And so does Thurm

[Fletch]

I would assume he would pay a portion but taxpayers would get the rest.

We don't need a billion dollar stadium.

In fact from what I have seen and heard people are going be shocked at how nice the Ralph will be after this renovation. We might not need a new stadium for 10 years.

Your entire presence here runs on assumptions. You're one of the dumbest posters here. Take your 87 IQ and move on. It's no wonder that all of your blue collar buddies are still in Buffalo making x dollars per hour.

[Dr. Who]

Well how about not treating anyone here as if they voted Jim down like that, to start.

Secondly, "if KneeJ plays well?" What, are you new to this team. We've been hearing "if this" and "if that" for years. Why don't you come back and lecture us all about who's going to be here and not when it actually happens. In the meantime let's defer to prior seasons where you likely said the exact same things about Edwards, TO, Mario, etc., and there's no shortage of "etc.'s", and then ask yourself who should or shouldn't be here now and who should or shouldn't be opening their mouth at all here anymore.

I've been a fan for over forty years. I'll say what I like. You do.

[Fletch]

Yes. I do. And so does Thurm

LOL

You have a brain. So now the sample size is up to two. Ever seen one of those thread that asks where people are from? Most aren't from Buffalo. That's just here.

Either way, we're off on another completely idiotic tangents here. If you want to associate with Thurmanator's idiocy, feel free. I have you pegged a little, or a lot, higher than that. Your posts are intelligent. His always come across as if he's just emptied a bong.

[Dr. Lecter]

Your entire presence here runs on assumptions. You're one of the dumbest posters here. Take your 87 IQ and move on. It's no wonder that all of your blue collar buddies are still in Buffalo making x dollars per hour.

Thurm is smart.

There is no way that somebody has a noggin that big and not be smart too!

[Skooby]

Well how about not treating anyone here as if they voted Jim down like that, to start.

Secondly, "if KneeJ plays well?" What, are you new to this team. We've been hearing "if this" and "if that" for years. Why don't you come back and lecture us all about who's going to be here and not when it actually happens. In the meantime let's defer to prior seasons where you likely said the exact same things about Edwards, TO, Mario, etc., and there's no shortage of "etc.'s", and then ask yourself who should or shouldn't be here now and who should or shouldn't be opening their mouth at all here anymore.

Fletch, if the Bills start winning will you step away from the ledge ?

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Thurm is smart.

There is no way that somebody has a noggin that big and not be smart too!

Does he have a head like Kazoo ?

[Fletch]

I've been a fan for over forty years. I'll say what I like. You do.

Feel free. Have I ever tried to stop you? Or insisted that you don't?

Just don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining as the saying goes.

Facts are facts. Don't spout off opinions as if they're facts. That's the problem here.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I'll tell you what, give us the name of your HS class and the year that you graduated. One quick call to the school should verify whether or not you're full of ****. I'm guessing that you are.

- - - Updated - - -

LOL

I call that an irrelevant sample size. In more ways than one.

How would my high school have any idea whether my friends live here and what their jobs are? What are you talking about?

Haa you are probably right on the second point though.

[Dr. Lecter]

LOL

You have a brain. So now the sample size is up to two. Ever seen one of those thread that asks where people are from? Most aren't from Buffalo. That's just here.

Either way, we're off on another completely idiotic tangents here. If you want to associate with Thurmanator's idiocy, feel free. I have you pegged a little, or a lot, higher than that. Your posts are intelligent. His always come across as if he's just emptied a bong.

I would expect a Bills message board's population to be skewed from being out of town. What originally attracted a lot of people to boards like this is the need for Bills news and discussion which is harder to come by when you live out of town. People who live in the area get Bills news and talk by being local and talking with co-workers, friends, etc.

Not to mention there are a lot of people that were never in the area and are out of town Bills fans regardless.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Your entire presence here runs on assumptions. You're one of the dumbest posters here. Take your 87 IQ and move on. It's no wonder that all of your blue collar buddies are still in Buffalo making x dollars per hour.

Haaa

OK fine!

[Dr. Who]

ask yourself who should or shouldn't be here now and who should or shouldn't be opening their mouth at all here anymore.

That sounded to me like an invitation to shut up.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Thurm is smart.

There is no way that somebody has a noggin that big and not be smart too!

Great point!

[Fletch]

Fletch, if the Bills start winning will you step away from the ledge ?

ROFLMAO

You guys are so funny. Every year you say this to people just discussing the realities of this team and that aren't ready to admit that we're playoff bound. Every year for the last umpteen you've been wrong, but like weeds, you keep popping up every year to clutter up the garden.

It's been so long that the team has won that I've fogotten what it's like. Natually our front office is great though and changes are right around the corner. LOL

Every year, like the fresh stench of the water treatment facility wafting across our yards you guys are here to set us all straight that this is the season that everything changes just because our GM said so.

How can people not read here, it's so entertaining just watching you guys morph from this mindset that insists that we're on the cusp of winning into one of psycho mode in late November where everything associated with the team should be nuked.

[THATHURMANATOR]

LOL

You have a brain. So now the sample size is up to two. Ever seen one of those thread that asks where people are from? Most aren't from Buffalo. That's just here.

Either way, we're off on another completely idiotic tangents here. If you want to associate with Thurmanator's idiocy, feel free. I have you pegged a little, or a lot, higher than that. Your posts are intelligent. His always come across as if he's just emptied a bong.

I hate hippy Pot heads.

[Fletch]

That sounded to me like an invitation to shut up.

If you're one of those people that has lectured the rest for daring to not buy into what the FO has done over the last ten years, at least, and tells the rest that we'll have nothing to say once we win or start making the playoffs, or whatever other lofty goal they claim we'll achieve but never do, but then continue to speak, then you would be.

I don't know, are you one of those people? I can't say, don't care, haven't paid attention. Just sayin'. I just know they're here and pull their wash/rinse/repeat nonsense every year. One would think that after being so incredibly wrong for so incredibly wrong that they'd be shamed to say much of anything, but this is America where opinion trumps facts in our pop-culture.

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I hate hippy Pot heads.

Yeah, you seem to hate a lot of things, including much of your fellow man.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I don't even understand what the argument is here either.

It seems as if Pegula and BJ are serious about buying the team.

No numbers reported can be confirmed or denied.

I don't see the point in talking about it really until things are confirmed.

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If you're one of those people that has lectured the rest for daring to not buy into what the FO has done over the last ten years, at least, and tells the rest that we'll have nothing to say once we win or start making the playoffs, or whatever other lofty goal they claim we'll achieve but never do, but then continue to speak, then you would be.

I don't know, are you one of those people? I can't say, don't care, haven't paid attention. Just sayin'. I just know they're here and pull their wash/rinse/repeat nonsense every year. One would think that after being so incredibly wrong for so incredibly wrong that they'd be shamed to say much of anything, but this is America where opinion trumps facts in our pop-culture.

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Yeah, you seem to hate a lot of things, including much of your fellow man.

I like the Bills! :D

[Dr. Who]

[QUOTE=Fletch;3970608]If you're one of those people that has lectured the rest for daring to not buy into what the FO has done over the last ten years, at least, and tells the rest that we'll have nothing to say once we win or start making the playoffs, or whatever other lofty goal they claim we'll achieve but never do, but then continue to speak, then you would be.

I don't know, are you one of those people? I can't say, don't care, haven't paid attention. Just sayin'. I just know they're here and pull their wash/rinse/repeat nonsense every year. One would think that after being so incredibly wrong for so incredibly wrong that they'd be shamed to say much of anything, but this is America where opinion trumps facts in our pop-culture.

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Well, since you evidently "don't care," I don't know why I am answering this. You will see my join date to this site is July 2002. I rarely posted until quite recently, because while I always hoped for the best, I wasn't truly persuaded we were going to be better. I like the current team and I am optimistic. I don't care about failures in the past. If it doesn't work out, I'll be disappointed and you will have more ammunition for your particular perspective.

[Fletch]

I don't even understand what the argument is here either.

Yeah, that seems to be a recurrent theme with you. You step into a conversation like a drunkard shoving people out of the way to get to the punch bowl while ignoring everything around you.

Then you scratch your noggin and wonder why anyone would take offense.

I'll give you props for providing good amusement by stirring things up at times when things slow down.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah, that seems to be a recurrent theme with you. You step into a conversation like a drunkard shoving people out of the way to get to the punch bowl while ignoring everything around you.

Then you scratch your noggin and wonder why anyone would take offense.

I'll give you props for providing good amusement by stirring things up at times when things slow down.

HAHA thanks man!

Yes I do that I will admit.

[Fletch]

Well, since you evidently "don't care," I don't know why I am answering this. You will see my join date to this site is July 2002. I rarely posted until quite recently, because while I always hoped for the best, I wasn't truly persuaded we were going to be better. I like the current team and I am optimistic. I don't care about failures in the past. If it doesn't work out, I'll be disappointed and you will have more ammunition for your particular perspective.

Then don't include yourself in among the emotional midgets here that have a grade school mentality and 8-year old emotional level.

Look, I enjoy discussing this team in a manner that addresses the facts. No one likes listening to people that treat them as if they want the team to move or want the team to do poorly simply because they don't see any evidence that what the front office has done is making the kind of progress that should be made if a team is genuinely to improve.

This is a cyclical exercise. I haven't posted here much until this season because of the state of the sale of the team my interest has increased. I'm not a message board person. But I've read enough over the years to know that we have this situation every season. You have certain posters, and presumably they're the same ones because the more rational ones wouldn't toggle their opinions like that.

I want the team to stay as much as the next guy, so having people insist that I'm lying is offensive and insulting. Just because I look at the economic and financial facts and don't see them lining up doesn't make a difference and just because I don't shut my eyes and stick my head in the sand and plug my ears repeating over and over to myself "I can't hear you - I can't hear you - I can't hear you" doesn't mean anything. All it means is that people doing that aren't reacting rationally or addressing the facts.

I'd love for this team to win, but I don't see it happening this season, sorry. That doesn't mean that I want them to lose. Instead, I look at why we have the weaknesses that we have, and I challenge and bang on those things. Things like Whaley for example. Sorry, but if Manuel whiffs, the one that should go is Whaley. Period. He's directly responsible for that.

Instead all we hear is about how Whaley's the new up and coming great personnel GM in the league. Really? Is that why we're on the cusp of irrelevance for another few years again if Manuel doesn't work out? ... and without a 1st-rounder next season to do much about it if that happens?

I know I know, Manuel's going to work out, Watkins is going to propel us to the playoffs, and the December 14th Green Bay home game is going to be ice cream and lollipops day at the stadium as rainbows hover overhead as an omen as to the future and if I don't believe that then I hate the team.

It gets old after a while. Meanwhile, I've heard few people say that they care more about the team actually winning than only virtually winning in the preseason or during camp, in discussing a new owner. They seem to be quite content if the team stays and we get 20 more years of non-playoffs added to this record string of futility that will be pushing 20 years if Manuel doesn't work out, and right now the smart money says he won't. But those fans will start telling you how much better fans they are. Really? Since when did settling for losing just so that we can go see them lose become as status symbol for being a fan? I must have missed that.

[WagonCircler]

OK, I've named, in nauseating repetition due to people perpetually challenging it, why it might not.

Go ahead and give us the "concrete" reasons why they will? The only one that I can think of is that someone that is sentimental about the team that has the cash to buy them may overpay to do so, but that still does not solve the new stadium issue that Goodell is on record as saying we need to keep the team here.

So go ahead, list all those "concrete" reasons for us. If you can't, then do us a favor, quit talking about it as if there really are more concrete reasons for them staying than good solid reasons that clearly make more sense for a new owner to move the team.

You're on the clock!

Here you go, FELCH:

1. The potential legal and political implications faced by any group intending to move the team. Very, very real, and deadly serious. But most of all, incredibly expensive, on top of the purchase price.

2. The stated desire of the NFL to have single, self-finaced owners, ala Pegula.

3. The threat of anti trust lawsuits facing the NFL if a team is moved, not only out of NY State, but especially to Canada. Schumer and his cronies could curb-stomp the NFL in court, and they a rightly afraid. Jerry Jones can kiss my ass. Most NFL owners are not like Jerry Jones. They know they have a license to print money and they have no desire to jeopardize that by poking the bear that is the Federal Trade Commission.

4. The fact that Terry P's bid would already be the highest ever paid for an NFL franchise. It would be one thing to move a team in a situation where keeping them in their current city was untenable, i.e. a dispute over a stadium, poor fan support, lack of a local buyer, but to move a team with excellent fan support and a local, motivated buyer who meets and exceeds NFL criteria? Not happening.

5. The entire process that we're watching unfold would not be happening were it not for Ralph Wilson's explicit and expressed desire for the team to remain in WNY. This is made clear by the formation of the overseers of the trust and by the provisions in the lease that make it basically impossible to move the team until more than enough time has passed to sort out his estate. The situation sets up perfectly for a local, committed owner like Pegula.

There are many more factors, but any single one of the above would likely be enough to keep the team here. But when you add them all together, it paints a very bright picture of a team staying right here, where it belongs.

I'm off the clock and you're still sucking C O C K.

[Fletch]

HAHA thanks man!

Yes I do that I will admit.

I respect that!

[THATHURMANATOR]

Then don't include yourself in among the emotional midgets here that have a grade school mentality and 8-year old emotional level.

Look, I enjoy discussing this team in a manner that addresses the facts. No one likes listening to people that treat them as if they want the team to move or want the team to do poorly simply because they don't see any evidence that what the front office has done is making the kind of progress that should be made if a team is genuinely to improve.

This is a cyclical exercise. I haven't posted here much until this season because of the state of the sale of the team my interest has increased. I'm not a message board person. But I've read enough over the years to know that we have this situation every season. You have certain posters, and presumably they're the same ones because the more rational ones wouldn't toggle their opinions like that.

I want the team to stay as much as the next guy, so having people insist that I'm lying is offensive and insulting. Just because I look at the economic and financial facts and don't see them lining up doesn't make a difference and just because I don't shut my eyes and stick my head in the sand and plug my ears repeating over and over to myself "I can't hear you - I can't hear you - I can't hear you" doesn't mean anything. All it means is that people doing that aren't reacting rationally or addressing the facts.

I'd love for this team to win, but I don't see it happening this season, sorry. That doesn't mean that I want them to lose. Instead, I look at why we have the weaknesses that we have, and I challenge and bang on those things. Things like Whaley for example. Sorry, but if Manuel whiffs, the one that should go is Whaley. Period. He's directly responsible for that.

Instead all we hear is about how Whaley's the new up and coming great personnel GM in the league. Really? Is that why we're on the cusp of irrelevance for another few years again if Manuel doesn't work out? ... and without a 1st-rounder next season to do much about it if that happens?

I know I know, Manuel's going to work out, Watkins is going to propel us to the playoffs, and the December 14th Green Bay home game is going to be ice cream and lollipops day at the stadium as rainbows hover overhead as an omen as to the future and if I don't believe that then I hate the team.

It gets old after a while. Meanwhile, I've heard few people say that they care more about the team actually winning than only virtually winning in the preseason or during camp, in discussing a new owner. They seem to be quite content if the team stays and we get 20 more years of non-playoffs added to this record string of futility that will be pushing 20 years if Manuel doesn't work out, and right now the smart money says he won't. But those fans will start telling you how much better fans they are. Really? Since when did settling for losing just so that we can go see them lose become as status symbol for being a fan? I must have missed that.

Great Post!

I agree I am not sold on the team winning this year. Only chance of that is the light going on for Manuel. I suppose that is possible but I am not holding my breath.

I also don't dismiss your points on the team staying or going. I would tend to think Pegula will win the bid but anything is certainly possible.

[WagonCircler]

No one likes listening to people that treat them as if they want the team to move or want the team to do poorly simply because they don't see any evidence that what the front office has done is making the kind of progress that should be made if a team is genuinely to improve..

Why the **** do you keep bringing the front office into a conversation regarding the Bills sale? The front office has absolutely nothing to do with the sale.

And you're full of **** when you say that you want the team to stay. It's obvious from your every post that you're obsessed with the Bills leaving Buffalo.

And you come here, on a BUFFALO BILLS discussion board and you piss all over people who are--GASP--rooting for the Bills to stay in BUFFALO.

You are a jackass, FELCH.

[Fletch]

Why the **** do you keep bringing the front office into a conversation regarding the Bills sale? The front office has absolutely nothing to do with the sale..

Yeah, it's tough when you have the reading comprehension issues that you have. It's right in there, but I understand your inability to relate it.

Enjoy your drunken stupored weekend. I realize that it's just a continuation of your week, but nonetheless. Maybe your boyfriend can help you feel a little better this evening.

[Dr. Who]

Then don't include yourself in among the emotional midgets here that have a grade school mentality and 8-year old emotional level.

Look, I enjoy discussing this team in a manner that addresses the facts. No one likes listening to people that treat them as if they want the team to move or want the team to do poorly simply because they don't see any evidence that what the front office has done is making the kind of progress that should be made if a team is genuinely to improve.

This is a cyclical exercise. I haven't posted here much until this season because of the state of the sale of the team my interest has increased. I'm not a message board person. But I've read enough over the years to know that we have this situation every season. You have certain posters, and presumably they're the same ones because the more rational ones wouldn't toggle their opinions like that.

I want the team to stay as much as the next guy, so having people insist that I'm lying is offensive and insulting. Just because I look at the economic and financial facts and don't see them lining up doesn't make a difference and just because I don't shut my eyes and stick my head in the sand and plug my ears repeating over and over to myself "I can't hear you - I can't hear you - I can't hear you" doesn't mean anything. All it means is that people doing that aren't reacting rationally or addressing the facts.

I'd love for this team to win, but I don't see it happening this season, sorry. That doesn't mean that I want them to lose. Instead, I look at why we have the weaknesses that we have, and I challenge and bang on those things. Things like Whaley for example. Sorry, but if Manuel whiffs, the one that should go is Whaley. Period. He's directly responsible for that.

Instead all we hear is about how Whaley's the new up and coming great personnel GM in the league. Really? Is that why we're on the cusp of irrelevance for another few years again if Manuel doesn't work out? ... and without a 1st-rounder next season to do much about it if that happens?

I know I know, Manuel's going to work out, Watkins is going to propel us to the playoffs, and the December 14th Green Bay home game is going to be ice cream and lollipops day at the stadium as rainbows hover overhead as an omen as to the future and if I don't believe that then I hate the team.

It gets old after a while. Meanwhile, I've heard few people say that they care more about the team actually winning than only virtually winning in the preseason or during camp, in discussing a new owner. They seem to be quite content if the team stays and we get 20 more years of non-playoffs added to this record string of futility that will be pushing 20 years if Manuel doesn't work out, and right now the smart money says he won't. But those fans will start telling you how much better fans they are. Really? Since when did settling for losing just so that we can go see them lose become as status symbol for being a fan? I must have missed that.


That's fine. I still agree with Wagon Circler regarding Pegula and regarding the Bills staying put. That argument doesn't seem ridiculous or purely emotive to me.

If Manuel doesn't work out, it doesn't look good for Whaley. Sorry if it is unpopular here, but I think EJ will work out. I wanted the Bills to draft him. I wanted them to trade up and draft Watkins. The last two drafts were agreeable to me; one of the reasons I like Whaley. It's a risk, of course. Most things in life are. I think I ought to be allowed to hold these opinions -- I never said they were anything beyond that -- without being accused of potentially being an emotional midget or some such.

[BertSquirtgum]

But a funny thing happened. There was scant interest in buying the Bills. Of the 60 non-disclosure agreements Morgan Stanley sent out, only three offers have come in–Bon Jovi’s band, Trump and Pegula.

That is the part that should be of concern to the Bills remaining in Buffalo after the current lease expires.

It looks like Pegula will be purchasing the Bills now, but to assume he will then put in his own money into a new stadium for a team that is unattractive to purchase is a huge leap in faith.

The economic fundamentals are simply not there can be the only reason interest in purchasing the Bills and keeping them in Buffalo is so low.

Give it up and get a life already. Nobody likes Canadian men.

[swiper]

Give it up and get a life already. Nobody likes Canadian men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm93-rsIzmY

[BidsJr]

Is Wys back? I haven't seen someone so obsessed with his own opinion in a long time. At least Op keeps his rants short enough that it only takes 1 swipe of the ipad to scroll past.

[bleve]

The thread about the Buffalo Bills sale becoming a circus, is becoming a circus. :D

[Fixxxer]

But a funny thing happened. There was scant interest in buying the Bills. Of the 60 non-disclosure agreements Morgan Stanley sent out, only three offers have come in–Bon Jovi’s band, Trump and Pegula.

That is the part that should be of concern to the Bills remaining in Buffalo after the current lease expires.

It looks like Pegula will be purchasing the Bills now, but to assume he will then put in his own money into a new stadium for a team that is unattractive to purchase is a huge leap in faith.

The economic fundamentals are simply not there can be the only reason interest in purchasing the Bills and keeping them in Buffalo is so low.

Wow buddy you’re really something, you should really STFU, more so when you bring up the point of not having enough bidders as a negative. For over 10 years I/we had to read your idea that this team will be sold to the highest bidder because old Ralph Wilson didn't have a plan in place to keep the team in Buffalo, you kept harping on an on ad nauseam with this notion until you became unreadable.
It’s evident that Ralph and his group had a solid plan in place so that the Bills sold to someone with roots in WYN. You not only fail to give the man his due credit but you waste no time going immediately to the next negative crusade on how the Bills will never be viable in Buffalo long term.

You really are miserable , worst part you make the life of the members of this board miserable as well.

Peace out.

[better days]

Less and less.

So, LESS than ZERO.

I think that is a Bob Dylan song.

[Homegrown]

So, LESS than ZERO.

I think that is a Bob Dylan song.

Less than zero is an Elvis Costello song

Love minus zero, no limit is the Zimmerman song

[better days]

Yeah, that seems to be a recurrent theme with you. You step into a conversation like a drunkard shoving people out of the way to get to the punch bowl while ignoring everything around you.

Then you scratch your noggin and wonder why anyone would take offense.

I'll give you props for providing good amusement by stirring things up at times when things slow down.

What the hell is in that punch bowl? SPIKED LEMONADE?

REAL men drink BEER & WHISKEY.

Punch Bowls & Spiked Lemonade are for GAYS & WOMEN.

[better days]

Less than zero is an Elvis Costello song

Love minus zero, no limit is the Zimmerman song

Thanks. I am a huge fan of BOTH Elvis & Robert.

[better days]

Give it up and get a life already. Nobody likes Canadian men.

Not even Canadian Women.

They much prefer us Americans, Especially those of us from Buffalo.

[stuckincincy]

This thread could use a Greek chorus.

[YardRat]

Pop quiz, hotshots...

Who is more pathetic?

A)The *******s that write this ****
B)The ****tard 'fans' that pop a boner when they read it.

[better days]

Besides, STFU. It's nonsense like yours that adds absolutely nothing to conversations. All emotional bull****. Nothing concrete, no facts, just beer-muscled "I'm a better fan than you are" bull****.

Well, beer muscled BS beats Spiked Lemonade gayness.

[Dujek]

Don't play with dicks.

Unless you're into that sort of thing of course. We welcome everyone in the Zone.

[Night Train]

Pop quiz, hotshots...

Who is more pathetic?

A)The *******s that write this ****
B)The ****tard 'fans' that pop a boner when they read it.


Some just wake up and drink the 64 oz. Haterade every day.

[BertSquirtgum]

Pop quiz, hotshots...

Who is more pathetic?

A)The *******s that write this ****
B)The ****tard 'fans' that pop a boner when they read it.

Equally pathetic.

[swiper]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/2588882359/pnf0mh1s37rhqlph8thl_normal.pngBuffalo Rumblings @BuffRumblings (https://twitter.com/BuffRumblings)

Golisano to enter the fray early next week, writes @nypost (https://twitter.com/nypost).

[Dr. Who]

I am starting to think that the trust may have a preference for Golisano. He would not be bad, but I much prefer Pegula.

[better days]

I am starting to think that the trust may have a preference for Golisano. He would not be bad, but I much prefer Pegula.

I think the trust would prefer the highest bidder that will keep the team in Buffalo.

[stuckincincy]

I think the trust would prefer the highest bidder that will keep the team in Buffalo.

That may be a preference, but a trust can't be worded such, that is, keep the team in Buffalo or no sale. Trustees are charged with a fiduciary responsibility. Maximize value to the beneficiaries.

[Dr. Who]

I think the trust would prefer the highest bidder that will keep the team in Buffalo.

If that is the case, I would guess that would favor Pegula's chances. I've read that Golisano has cultivated friendship with Wilson and his people over the years. Don't know how true all that is.

[WagonCircler]

I am starting to think that the trust may have a preference for Golisano. He would not be bad, but I much prefer Pegula.

The speculation is that the trust wants a real competitor to start a bidding war with Pegula and the neither the Toronto group or Trump are willing/able to start one.

[better days]

That may be a preference, but a trust can't be worded such, that is, keep the team in Buffalo or no sale. Trustees are charged with a fiduciary responsibility. Maximize value to the beneficiaries.

This has been discussed before, YES there can be contingencies that the trust must follow.

[BertSquirtgum]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2014/08/01/buffalo-bills-sale-has-turned-into-a-circus/

The sale of the Buffalo Bills has evolved into an event Ringling Bros and Barnum & Baily (http://www.ringling.com/) would have been proud of.

[More at link]

Why did you go from posting about once a month to 10 times a day when Ralph Wilson Jr died? Very obvious you have some sort of agenda involving the bills moving to Canada. Don't bother denying it because I just went back and checked your posts.

[WagonCircler]

Why did you go from posting about once a month to 10 times a day when Ralph Wilson Jr died? Very obvious you have some sort of agenda involving the bills moving to Canada. Don't bother denying it because I just went back and checked your posts.

I'm pretty sure he's an alter-ego of one of the usual douches.