A Football Team With A Quarterback Problem

[Typ0]

I have been doing this long enough. I know what a pre season game is. This is the best team the Bills have fielded in years but they still have not done enough to solve the quarterback problem--which sucks and is most likely a waste of all those other efforts.

[The last buffalo fan]

Let's have a snickers!

[Novacane]

You got that from two series?

[ServoBillieves]

... Wow.

[Typ0]

You got that from two series?

It's not just EJ. The whole position needs to be significantly improved and I question if it is. From EJ I saw poor passes though which has been pretty consistent since he showed up this year. I hope it changes ... and I hope he can stay on the field.

[SpikedLemonade]

Too early to reach that conclusion.

[Typ0]

I like Kit Kats and I refuse to review an August 3rd pre-season game.

I agree you can't review much ... but you can review what a player did.

[justasportsfan]

A Football Team With A Quarterback Problem I agree. The Giants are screwed

[Novacane]

It's not just EJ. The whole position needs to be significantly improved and I question if it is. From EJ I saw poor passes though which has been pretty consistent since he showed up this year. I hope it changes ... and I hope he can stay on the field.



I didn't like what I saw from EJ tonight but I wouldn't of been excited if he looked great and led a TD drive. If he's looking the same in a month I'll be worried.

[Mr. Pink]

Saw the same guy I saw last year.

Stares down receivers. Batted balls at the line.

Could be a looooooooooooong year.

[Typ0]

That's exactly it! I know people are going to discount my thread but it looks like status quo to me. It's not going to magically change in a month. If there was that kind of progress then we would be seeing him taking that step. He's not.


Saw the same guy I saw last year.

Stares down receivers. Batted balls at the line.

Could be a looooooooooooong year.

[Skooby]

EJ looks the same to me but his supporting cast got better, so I can't really say how this is going to workout. My own opinion right now is EJ needs to hand the ball off & set up the pass until he gets a clear understanding of what to do, right now he still looks pretty lost. There's a possibility that the whole offense is out of sync but there was some questionable throws, no ball control problems though.

[Skooby]

That's exactly it! I know people are going to discount my thread but it looks like status quo to me. It's not going to magically change in a month. If there was that kind of progress then we would be seeing him taking that step. He's not.

It's not a problem yet because the season hasn't started.

[Mr. Pink]

It's not a problem yet because the season hasn't started.

How is it not?

It's a full year later, basically, and he's doing the same crap.

Any progression would be nice, we saw none.

Or is he magically gonna look different when the games count?

[Typ0]

I will agree on one thing. It's nice to be starting a new season with a blank slate and have meaningful games.

[THRILLHO]

We have some receivers to be excited about. Woods looks better than he did last year. M Williams had that screen turn into a nice gain. TJ was catching quite a lot. Watkins didn't have a catch, but has the potential. But I will agree that EJ looked a lot like EJ from last year. He was trying to force it to Watkins, kept staring him down. Several batted passes, and the classic overthrow to Sammy. Its the preseason, I get it. But I'd like to see some progression. We still have a month to get on board. Lets hope EJ can, because this team's fate rests on him.

[elltrain22]

Saw the same guy I saw last year.

Stares down receivers. Batted balls at the line.

Could be a looooooooooooong year.


I have to agree to a certain extent. What we saw was in no way shape or form, a progression in play-making ability. He def' did stare down rec's & def did get balls batted down. That does suggest we might have the same level of talent (or lack there of) this year.

However, EJ did seem to be very nervous the first few drives of games and then settle and play better, and you can only hope that with more time, and less nerves, and better focus, he will perform better.

Only time will tell...

[bleve]

Preseason or not. Three batted balls in two series?


That's a problem.

[psubills62]

Two of the things I value in a QB are accuracy and mental development. I'm willing to give EJ a chance, but it appears so far that those are the two things he's lacking (and those are the two things this coaching staff doesn't seem to value). As I said after the draft, the overall team talent is increasing. As much as I hope it isn't during the season, QB is the main problem right now.

[ICRockets]

Two of the things I value in a QB are accuracy and mental development. I'm willing to give EJ a chance, but it appears so far that those are the two things he's lacking (and those are the two things this coaching staff doesn't seem to value). As I said after the draft, the overall team talent is increasing. As much as I hope it isn't during the season, QB is the main problem right now.

How could you tell his accuracy was lacking? 2 balls got batted down at the line, one almost got picked because the route took Sammy to where the LB was, 1 longer throw went off Williams' hands because he jumped for it too early, and a couple were completed. He had one throw that we can classify as definitively inaccurate, and it was to a rookie WR in Week ZERO of preseason.

As for mental development, if you watched late enough into the broadcast you saw that EJ has indeed changed his throwing motion significantly. If his mental development were as deficient as you seem to believe, that would not be possible.

[jills]

How could you tell his accuracy was lacking? 2 balls got batted down at the line, one almost got picked because the route took Sammy to where the LB was, 1 longer throw went off Williams' hands because he jumped for it too early, and a couple were completed. He had one throw that we can classify as definitively inaccurate, and it was to a rookie WR in Week ZERO of preseason.

As for mental development, if you watched late enough into the broadcast you saw that EJ has indeed changed his throwing motion significantly. If his mental development were as deficient as you seem to believe, that would not be possible.

We saw the exact same thing last year. He's not accurate, period.

[YardRat]

First live action against a real opponent. Granted, he looked below average in his two series, but let's see how he fares the next couple of weeks.

He's never going to be a Brady/Manning/Brees, so some people need to start tempering their expectations. He doesn't have to be.

[AlbanyFan]

Saw the same guy I saw last year.

Stares down receivers. Batted balls at the line.

Could be a looooooooooooong year.

According to WGR, he had 3 batted balls all last year.

You have to let this play out before you walk the plank.

He was 2 of 7 and 2 of those were batted balls that many are saying have a lot to do with the o-line,

And I said it last night and many are saying today, the pass to Williams in the end zone was actually a good pass. Put it in the only place that could have been caught. Would have been a great catch, but it was catchable.

[Fletch]

We saw the exact same thing last year. He's not accurate, period.

And for those that did their homework regarding Manuel at FSU, others saw the exact same thing there for four seasons. This isn't a new weakness, it's a built-in one that Whaley should have paid a helluva lot more attention to.

[Fletch]

According to WGR, he had 3 batted balls all last year.

You have to let this play out before you walk the plank.

This isn't directed at you AF, but how the hell can a batted ball have to do with the OL? Offensive linemen aren't suppose to block open seams for the ball to be thrown. Balls get batted when they're thrown low enough towards defenders that are in the way of a target. Every QB faces the same things. If a QB throws a ball at a LB's helmet, he shouldn't be surprised to have it batted. Only one of those did the defender have to jump much. It's up to the QB to put the right touch and arc on the ball to get it to where it needs to be, or throw to another target. Who has that confidence in KneeJ.

KneeJ's play isn't going to come down to batted balls. He stinks at reading defenses and is about as accurate as a Florida weather forecast applied to Buffalo in January. Neither camp nor yesterday's game, even the two series, came close to hinting that anything's going to change in that way. He also overthrew Watkins, something that we'll be seeing a lot this year, throwing off when he goes to Watkins. Get used to it.

[don137]

Not in panic mode yet but I hate seeing the same mistakes of locking into a receiver. Easy to defend when know where he is going with ball most of time. Really hope he improves on this before season starts. He really needs to be out there longer.

[Skooby]

According to WGR, he had 3 batted balls all last year.

You have to let this play out before you walk the plank.

He was 2 of 7 and 2 of those were batted balls that many are saying have a lot to do with the o-line,

And I said it last night and many are saying today, the pass to Williams in the end zone was actually a good pass. Put it in the only place that could have been caught. Would have been a great catch, but it was catchable.

So he's regressing?

[Typ0]

The one thing we can latch onto is there will be new ownership which may prove the force necessary to end this cycle. If we see a good football team with a quarterback problem hopefully that won't mean completely starting over like it has for the past decade. Pegula is a loyal guy who is also not afraid to pull the trigger when necessary. This is all encouraging.

[ICRockets]

This isn't directed at you AF, but how the hell can a batted ball have to do with the OL? Offensive linemen aren't suppose to block open seams for the ball to be thrown. Balls get batted when they're thrown low enough towards defenders that are in the way of a target. Every QB faces the same things. If a QB throws a ball at a LB's helmet, he shouldn't be surprised to have it batted. Only one of those did the defender have to jump much. It's up to the QB to put the right touch and arc on the ball to get it to where it needs to be, or throw to another target. Who has that confidence in KneeJ.

KneeJ's play isn't going to come down to batted balls. He stinks at reading defenses and is about as accurate as a Florida weather forecast applied to Buffalo in January. Neither camp nor yesterday's game, even the two series, came close to hinting that anything's going to change in that way. He also overthrew Watkins, something that we'll be seeing a lot this year, throwing off when he goes to Watkins. Get used to it.

He does? Then can you explain how he was able to read the Patriots defense in his very first regular season game to know that the play that came in from the sideline wasn't the right call when he changed it and threw a TD to Robert Woods?

[trapezeus]

what's tough about EJ is that he's a likable guy. he's not a moper. he always seems to let things brush off him easily.

from johnson to fitz, guys just seemed so defeated when things went wrong. so that seems positive that EJ has confidence. that one bad series or half doesn't mean he won't come out the next series/half and perform better.

however, with such an incomplete record last year, its hard to know if this is just slow growth or if this is it with him.

i suspect the preseason isn't going to show us too much. for every good game he has, there will be reason to doubt it and for every bad game there is, there will be reason to suspect this isn't the regular season EJ.

I really hope the coaches help him by getting the OL up to snuff fast and run the ball consistently to allow more one on one match ups. this gives EJ a strength to find a WR open one on one and not have to read too much.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I just feel it is so asinine to jump to any conclusion at this point.

If Mike Williams comes down with that very catchable pass in the endzone this is a different conversation.

Trust me if he blows in the regular season I won't sugar coat it.

[Fletch]

Not in panic mode yet but I hate seeing the same mistakes of locking into a receiver. Easy to defend when know where he is going with ball most of time. Really hope he improves on this before season starts. He really needs to be out there longer.

I agree, I don't understand this wisdom-less mentality that says to save KneeJ for the regular season.

What are we saving? Crap.

It makes more sense to put him in there until he can play a complete game well, something he hasn't even come close to doing here.

Not that I think it would matter, I don't. He clearly had these issues at FSU too. It would be a miracle if he were able to correct them by the start of the season, especially as you imply, if he only plays 6 or 7 scattered quarters in preseason.

Once again, we are apparently not blessed with the kind of coaching that realizes this.

[Fletch]

The one thing we can latch onto is there will be new ownership which may prove the force necessary to end this cycle. If we see a good football team with a quarterback problem hopefully that won't mean completely starting over like it has for the past decade. Pegula is a loyal guy who is also not afraid to pull the trigger when necessary. This is all encouraging.

I sure as hell hope so. If Pegula buys the team with the stupid money that it's apparently going to take, not to mention the stupid money it will take to keep the team here, and we'd all be thankful for that, but if at that point he takes the same standing position of this team by not hiring a proven and good GM, it won't make much sense. It would be like buying a Ferrari and then heading over to Walmart to have cheap tires put on it.

[Fletch]

He does? Then can you explain how he was able to read the Patriots defense in his very first regular season game to know that the play that came in from the sideline wasn't the right call when he changed it and threw a TD to Robert Woods?

LMAO

You're right, based on one play he's fantastic at reading defenses.

Otherwise, maybe it had to do with the fact that the Patriots' defense really wasn't very good last season. Just maybe. As they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again.

Really, is it your experience after watching KneeJ that he reads defenses well?

[swiper]

He does? Then can you explain how he was able to read the Patriots defense in his very first regular season game to know that the play that came in from the sideline wasn't the right call when he changed it and threw a TD to Robert Woods?

Yes he does. The proof is that Hackett and Marrone know this, that's why they only gave him short route, single read throws yesterday.

[better days]

This isn't directed at you AF, but how the hell can a batted ball have to do with the OL? Offensive linemen aren't suppose to block open seams for the ball to be thrown. Balls get batted when they're thrown low enough towards defenders that are in the way of a target. Every QB faces the same things. If a QB throws a ball at a LB's helmet, he shouldn't be surprised to have it batted. Only one of those did the defender have to jump much. It's up to the QB to put the right touch and arc on the ball to get it to where it needs to be, or throw to another target. Who has that confidence in KneeJ.

KneeJ's play isn't going to come down to batted balls. He stinks at reading defenses and is about as accurate as a Florida weather forecast applied to Buffalo in January. Neither camp nor yesterday's game, even the two series, came close to hinting that anything's going to change in that way. He also overthrew Watkins, something that we'll be seeing a lot this year, throwing off when he goes to Watkins. Get used to it.

Offensive linemen are supposed to engage defensive linemen to prevent them from putting up their arms.

Marrone blamed two of the batted balls on the OL.

[TacklingDummy]

If Mike Williams comes down with that very catchable pass in the endzone this is a different conversation.


If Williams doesn't push the CB the ball is most likely intercepted.

[Skooby]

LMAO

You're right, based on one play he's fantastic at reading defenses.

Otherwise, maybe it had to do with the fact that the Patriots' defense really wasn't very good last season. Just maybe. As they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and again.

Really, is it your experience after watching KneeJ that he reads defenses well?
The fact that you're calling EJ /Kneej shows you being an unobjective di**head, please try not to just call names like a child.

[better days]

I just feel it is so asinine to jump to any conclusion at this point.

If Mike Williams comes down with that very catchable pass in the endzone this is a different conversation.

Trust me if he blows in the regular season I won't sugar coat it.

Nor will I. But I do think if EJ can get the ball to his receivers, this team will put up some points.

[Mr. Pink]

If Williams doesn't push the CB the ball is most likely intercepted.

I was about to say, I was kind of shocked Williams didn't get flagged for PI

[ICRockets]

Yes he does. The proof is that Hackett and Marrone know this, that's why they only gave him short route, single read throws yesterday.

You've convinced me. I forgot how often the Hall of Fame game is a bastion of offensive complexity.

[YardRat]

This isn't directed at you AF, but how the hell can a batted ball have to do with the OL? Offensive linemen aren't suppose to block open seams for the ball to be thrown. Balls get batted when they're thrown low enough towards defenders that are in the way of a target. Every QB faces the same things. If a QB throws a ball at a LB's helmet, he shouldn't be surprised to have it batted. Only one of those did the defender have to jump much. It's up to the QB to put the right touch and arc on the ball to get it to where it needs to be, or throw to another target. Who has that confidence in KneeJ.

KneeJ's play isn't going to come down to batted balls. He stinks at reading defenses and is about as accurate as a Florida weather forecast applied to Buffalo in January. Neither camp nor yesterday's game, even the two series, came close to hinting that anything's going to change in that way. He also overthrew Watkins, something that we'll be seeing a lot this year, throwing off when he goes to Watkins. Get used to it.

If the oline properly engages and controls their man, they create the throwing lanes...this really isn't that difficult.

The batted balls shouldn't be as much of a concern as one that got through, but hit a LBer in the belly in the red zone.

[YardRat]

If Williams doesn't push the CB the ball is most likely intercepted.


I was about to say, I was kind of shocked Williams didn't get flagged for PI

He didn't get flagged because he didn't push off...it wasn't a penalty.

[swiper]

So let's see what the EJ Manuel apologists have tried to sell us here....

1) It's only the HOF game. It's not supposed to be complex. What did you expect? (What we expected is that he'd be better than 2/7 in his quick, single read calls).
2) Its only the first preseason game. (But we all watched 2014 Manuel look exactly like 2013 & FSU Manuel)
3) The batted balls were the o-line's fault. Marrone said so. (Maybe a good QB wouldn't have thrown right at an uncovered charging DE - we don't know b/c we don't have one of those).
4) If Mike Williams caught that ball everything would be different. (Maybe he would have caught it, if it was truly catchable, which it wasn't).
5) Perhaps the best one ... He completed this pass last year against the Patriots so this means he's both accurate AND he can read defenses.

[Mike]

So let's see what the EJ Manuel apologists have tried to sell us here....

1) It's only the HOF game. It's not supposed to be complex. What did you expect? (What we expected is that he'd be better than 2/7 in his quick, single read calls).
2) Its only the first preseason game. (But we all watched 2014 Manuel look exactly like 2013 & FSU Manuel)
3) The batted balls were the o-line's fault. Marrone said so. (Maybe a good QB wouldn't have thrown right at an uncovered charging DE - we don't know b/c we don't have one of those).
4) If Mike Williams caught that ball everything would be different. (Maybe he would have caught it, if it was truly catchable, which it wasn't).
5) Perhaps the best one ... He completed this pass last year against the Patriots so this means he's both accurate AND he can read defenses.


If the Apologist were EVER remotely right we would have made the playoffs at least once in the past 15 years.

[CoolBreeze]

This is the problem I have with the "all is lost" group. We drafted this guy 14 months ago 14 MONTHS! He hasn't even played 14 full games yet preseason/regular season combined. His rookie season wasn't even close to terrible. Our coaches, players, and FO are behind him 100%. Yet after two off putting series in his first preseason game in his 2nd year, some of us are looking to throw him to the wolves. "We're done" " We're finished" "Our QBs are terrible". Unreal....

[Skooby]

So let's see what the EJ Manuel apologists have tried to sell us here....

1) It's only the HOF game. It's not supposed to be complex. What did you expect? (What we expected is that he'd be better than 2/7 in his quick, single read calls).
2) Its only the first preseason game. (But we all watched 2014 Manuel look exactly like 2013 & FSU Manuel)
3) The batted balls were the o-line's fault. Marrone said so. (Maybe a good QB wouldn't have thrown right at an uncovered charging DE - we don't know b/c we don't have one of those).
4) If Mike Williams caught that ball everything would be different. (Maybe he would have caught it, if it was truly catchable, which it wasn't).
5) Perhaps the best one ... He completed this pass last year against the Patriots so this means he's both accurate AND he can read defenses.

Many QB's don't start great out of the box & after our porous O-line last season / youthful WR core there was bound to be a learning curve.

[kishoph]

So let's see what the EJ Manuel apologists have tried to sell us here....


4) If Mike Williams caught that ball everything would be different. (Maybe he would have caught it, if it was truly catchable, which it wasn't).



That line right there gives you about as much credibility as dog feces. :poop:

[swiper]

Many QB's don't start great out of the box & after our porous O-line last season / youthful WR core there was bound to be a learning curve.

A) Who said all is lost? No one I've seen. But 6-10 is likely. You want to accept that?

B) I often use the fact that Steve Young took 6 or 7 years to break fully out. Get one thing straight, EJ Manuel is not, nor ever will be Steve Young. All you have to do is watch him play to understand his shortcomings.

The question, again, is how long are Marrone and Whaley willing to watch that before they start shoring up the position.

[swiper]

That line right there gives you about as much credibility as dog feces. :poop:

Then why didn't he catch it Mr. Credibility? LOL at clueless fans.

[Skooby]

A) Who said all is lost? No one I've seen. But 6-10 is likely. You want to accept that?

B) I often use the fact that Steve Young took 6 or 7 years to break fully out. Get one thing straight, EJ Manuel is not, nor ever will be Steve Young. All you have to do is watch him play to understand his shortcomings.

The question, again, is how long are Marrone and Whaley willing to watch that before they start shoring up the position.

Where did I say all is lost ? We drafted to make the O-line much better this past draft. Our depth there was mentioned several times throughout our second stringers playing. They also focused on how sure they were Sammy would be a great one as well. I can't remember one time last season about those things being mentioned, especially the O-line.

Steve got to study under Montana for all that time & had a great team around him as well, it's not like he was out there with a bunch of rookie WR / self-centered disobedient child (Stevie).

[Typ0]

This is the problem I am having. The team has made a lot of improvements--and we are sitting here hoping Manual gets his act together so they can be taken advantage of. That's a ridiculous situation to be in after all the heartache we have had from that position on the field.

Someone said above that EJ doesn't let things phase him much. I think that is huge and I love that about him. Truly we have had guys here who would make a bad play and become the bad play for the rest of the game. That is so pathetic! But we need production from that position and sitting here discussing EJ Manual and Jeff Tuel is kinda sad if you ask me ...



This is the problem I have with the "all is lost" group. We drafted this guy 14 months ago 14 MONTHS! He hasn't even played 14 full games yet preseason/regular season combined. His rookie season wasn't even close to terrible. Our coaches, players, and FO are behind him 100%. Yet after two off putting series in his first preseason game in his 2nd year, some of us are looking to throw him to the wolves. "We're done" " We're finished" "Our QBs are terrible". Unreal....

[Skooby]

This is the problem I am having. The team has made a lot of improvements--and we are sitting here hoping Manual gets his act together so they can be taken advantage of. That's a ridiculous situation to be in after all the heartache we have had from that position on the field.

Someone said above that EJ doesn't let things phase him much. I think that is huge and I love that about him. Truly we have had guys here who would make a bad play and become the bad play for the rest of the game. That is so pathetic! But we need production from that position and sitting here discussing EJ Manual and Jeff Tuel is kinda sad if you ask me ...

Part of EJ getting his act together is improving the people around him, it goes hand in hand. We had a porous O-line with a group of rookie WR, how much could EJ have done last year either way? He ended up being 4-6 as a starter last season, so one could think with much tools around him that he should improve. 3-3 in the division wasn't horrible & Miami would of made the playoffs if they beat us both games, heck they might of made it just splitting with us so who knows ?