Will There Be a Drop in Canadians Attending Bills Games in Buffalo This Year?

[SpikedLemonade]

Just wondering what the impact will be of the end of the Bills in Toronto series will have on Canadians attending Bills games in Buffalo.

Given:

Brandon has noted one success: attendance by Canadian fans at Ralph Wilson Stadium had increased from 11% to 20% at the time of the renewal agreement.[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series#cite_note-CanPress-24) Brandon has said that "Southern Ontario and the Toronto market and the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) are now the top secondary market of the Buffalo Bills".

and

However, Brandon also emphasized the financial benefits of the series by saying that it has "taken a game out of the [Buffalo] market that has essentially taken 70,000 seats out of our market, and we've truly only sold out two of our home games". He went on to say "we've manufactured sellouts in the other four or five. We're trying to find ways to obviously keep this team viable and we've done a very good job, and this [Toronto] series has obviously contributed to that".[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series#cite_note-review-32) Brandon has also said that the additional game would "stress-test the Buffalo market"

and

About 10,000 to 15,000 attendees (15-20% of the total) of Bills' home games at Ralph Wilson Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wilson_Stadium) come from southern Ontario.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series



I am surprised the percentage of Canadians increased to 20% as of January 2013.

So if Brandon is right that the increase is due to the now dead series, will Canadian attendance drop?

If it does, I hope all the big mouths crapping on Canadians will reach deeper into your pockets and buy more tickets so we can see the games up here without streaming.

Please don't let us down.

[swiper]

Will There Be a Drop in Canadians Attending Bills Games in Buffalo This Year?

We can always hope so.

[SpikedLemonade]

We can always hope so.

So Swiper do you have seasons tickets for the Bills?

[Skooby]

Fingers crossed.

[swiper]

No.

[SpikedLemonade]

No.

Could you get a pair to help keep the Bills in Buffalo?

[BillsImpossible]

Canadians like to party, and know a good time when they see it in Orchard Park, NY.

[SpikedLemonade]

Fingers crossed.

I realize you are out of town but you can help keep Canadians out of the seats by buying a pair and giving them to friends in the Buffalo area.

Is Pegula the only one who is expected to have charity start at home?

[Dr. Lecter]

Canadians are OK, even if their money is coloured and looks weird.

[SpikedLemonade]

Canadians like to party, and know a good time when they see it in Orchard Park, NY.

Perhaps, but longer border crossings and bad football wears that good time out.

We do have alcohol up here and don't need to drink it in a gravel parking lot that is at least a couple hour trip each way.

[SpikedLemonade]

Canadians are OK, even if their money is coloured and looks weird.

That is because we are not smart enough to have the different denominations be the same colour.

[BLeonard]

My bet is, the increase in the percentage of Canadian sales has zero to do with the Toronto Series. The 20% could just as easily have come as a result of less people outside of that area buying tickets.

If the number of people in Southern Ontario (S.O.) went up around 9% while the amount of people buying tix outside of the area remained the same, my guess is, there would be more sellouts.

Let me illustrate on a small scale:

Before the series, 1 out of every ten ticket purchasers was from S.O. (10%)

Then, during the series, 5 of those 9 that aren't from S.O. stop buying tix... That would mean that 1 out of 5 purchasers is now from S.O. (20%).

So yeah, Russ can sell the whole "20% Canadian" thing, but ignores that that number very likely increases because less people outside of that region are buying tix, not necessarily because people from S.O. are buying more.

-Bill

[SpikedLemonade]

....If the number of people in Southern Ontario (S.O.) went up around 9% while the amount of people buying tix outside of the area remained the same, my guess is, there would be more sellouts.....

....So yeah, Russ can sell the whole "20% Canadian" thing, but ignores that that number very likely increases because less people outside of that region are buying tix, not necessarily because people from S.O. are buying more.

-Bill

Sounds like our American brethren have already not put their money where their mouth is by not supporting the Bills enough.

Maybe it is time now for a little less talk and more action.

Step up and buy Bills tickets now to show you want the Bills to remain in Buffalo.

[Dr. Lecter]

That is because we are not smart enough to have the different denominations be the same colour.
Not my fault you guys don't know the difference between '1', '5', '10', '20', '50', etc.

[BLeonard]

Just looked it up: http://www.statista.com/statistics/250065/average-home-attendance-of-the-buffalo-bills/

Overall average attendance in 2008 was 71,405... It went down for the first four years of the Series, rebounding slightly in 2012 and a bit more last season.

2013's average attendance was 66,267... Over 5000 less than the 2008 average.

That's proof to me that the reason for the percentage going up was due to less sales outside of S.O. instead of some great surge of people in S.O. buying tix that they didn't prior to the Toronto Series.

-Bill

[SpikedLemonade]

Not my fault you guys don't know the difference between '1', '5', '10', '20', '50', etc.

We just don't have the great school system that you guys do down there.

[SpikedLemonade]

That's proof to me that the reason for the percentage going up was due to less sales outside of S.O. instead of some great surge of people in S.O. buying tix that they didn't prior to the Toronto Series.

-Bill

How can that be given the economic renaissance that is occurring in Buffalo?

It can't be due the Bills on field record because us Canadians have been told time and time again here that you guys down there are better fans than us. You are more loyal.

How could the percent of seats bought at the Ralph by Canadians be increasing?

Makes no sense.

[BLeonard]

Sounds like our American brethren have already not put their money where their mouth is by not supporting the Bills enough.

Well, not necessarily... The 15-20% is only taking southern Ontario into account... Those 5 that stopped buying tix in my example above could be from the US, could be from Quebec, could be from Manitoba, could be from Pago Pago. We don't really know where they are from.

Regardless, I can't say that I blame them... IMO (and I'm sure many others) the product on the field has not been worth the investment.

All's I'm saying is, Brandon basically saying "Canadian Fans have increased by 9%" is a very small part of the entire story. It doesn't suggest an increase in ticket sales to Canadians at all, though I'm sure that's what he wants people to believe.

-Bill

[justasportsfan]

If we win everyone will show up

[justasportsfan]

Canadians are OK, even if their money is coloured and looks weird.

Coloured? Eh?

[SpikedLemonade]

If we win everyone will show up

Can't any city of any sport claim the same regardless of the size of the **** stain?

Isn't the key to fan loyalty and support to attend games even when the team is bad?

- - - Updated - - -


Coloured? Eh?

No I'm White but thanks for asking.

[BLeonard]

How can that be given the economic renaissance that is occurring in Buffalo?

It can't be due the Bills on field record because us Canadians have been told time and time again here that you guys down there are better fans than us. You are more loyal.

How could the percent of seats bought at the Ralph by Canadians be increasing?

Makes no sense.

Well, I'm an American Bills fan and don't recall saying anything about an "economic renaissance" or saying that American fans are more loyal.

I know you're trying to stir the pot with some on here and that's fine... You know as well as I do that we agree about many things regarding the Bills.

I am interested to see what happens to the Series after the new owner is announced. What if Pegula is named the owner and decides to continue the Series, for whatever reason?

To me, it looks like many want Pegula simply because "he won't move the team." I was actually thinking about making a thread (and still might) about selling me on Pegula, because, at least personally, the response of "he won't move the team" isn't a good enough reason for me to want him as owner. He's owned the Sabres for three years now and they haven't done jack.

Admittedly, I don't watch much hockey, so maybe there's a reason for the Sabres not being successful since Pegula took over. But, I dealt with that whole "at least we have a team" crap when Wilson was owner... I'm expecting a bit more from whoever the new owner is. I'd hope that other Bills fans are raising the bar a bit higher than "he won't move the team" too, but I'm not sure about that at this point.

-Bill

[SpikedLemonade]

I am interested to see what happens to the Series after the new owner is announced. What if Pegula is named the owner and decides to continue the Series, for whatever reason?


No you can count on it being dead.

Simply no interest up here.

The initial series was just a smart move by Ralph to put $78M into his pocket and you can now see he did not turn around and spend it on player salaries.

The second series was renewed as a face saver at a much lower price, but after one year it was so embarrassing to both parties, they agreed to end it.

People in Toronto have little interest in anything Buffalo (it makes them laugh) unless it is the Leafs playing in Buffalo.

This didn't help either:

Ticket prices for the Series were announced in May, and averaged C$183 per seat. In Buffalo, Bills tickets averaged C$51 per seat.

[Ed]

Just wondering what the impact will be of the end of the Bills in Toronto series will have on Canadians attending Bills games in Buffalo.

Given:

Brandon has noted one success: attendance by Canadian fans at Ralph Wilson Stadium had increased from 11% to 20% at the time of the renewal agreement.[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series#cite_note-CanPress-24) Brandon has said that "Southern Ontario and the Toronto market and the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) are now the top secondary market of the Buffalo Bills".

and

However, Brandon also emphasized the financial benefits of the series by saying that it has "taken a game out of the [Buffalo] market that has essentially taken 70,000 seats out of our market, and we've truly only sold out two of our home games". He went on to say "we've manufactured sellouts in the other four or five. We're trying to find ways to obviously keep this team viable and we've done a very good job, and this [Toronto] series has obviously contributed to that".[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series#cite_note-review-32) Brandon has also said that the additional game would "stress-test the Buffalo market"

and

About 10,000 to 15,000 attendees (15-20% of the total) of Bills' home games at Ralph Wilson Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wilson_Stadium) come from southern Ontario.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series



I am surprised the percentage of Canadians increased to 20% as of January 2013.

So if Brandon is right that the increase is due to the now dead series, will Canadian attendance drop?

If it does, I hope all the big mouths crapping on Canadians will reach deeper into your pockets and buy more tickets so we can see the games up here without streaming.

Please don't let us down.
Season ticket sales this year surpassed 44,000 in May, which is higher than any of the previous five seasons and they still have time to sell more. I find it interesting that season ticket sales were higher before the Toronto series ever came into existence and then bounce back the moment the Bills cancel the Toronto series. Sorry Canada, but I don't think you're as important to the Bills as you want to believe you are.

[SpikedLemonade]

Season ticket sales this year surpassed 44,000 in May, which is higher than any of the previous five seasons and they still have time to sell more.

Why do you think the season ticket sales are so high this year?

[SpikedLemonade]

Clue: Something happened on March 25th of this year that scared people into showing their support financially for the Bills.

[BertSquirtgum]

Sounds like our American brethren have already not put their money where their mouth is by not supporting the Bills enough.

Maybe it is time now for a little less talk and more action.

Step up and buy Bills tickets now to show you want the Bills to remain in Buffalo.

Mind your own Canadian business. We will be just fine.

[SpikedLemonade]

Mind your own Canadian business. We will be just fine.

Please don't start blacking out games because your American mouths are bigger than your wallets.

[OpIv37]

Canadians are OK, even if their money is coloured and looks weird.

Negative points for not ending the sentence with "eh?"

[Dr. Lecter]

Negative points for not ending the sentence with "eh?"

Or calling them hosers, eh? That way he will understand what I am talking aboot

[djjimkelly]

your an idiot im canadian i dont support the toronto series at all BUT

if it wasnt for us canadian fans the bills would have moved long ago not what i want im a huge fan

but to want us not to come is ****ing ignorant

[SpikedLemonade]

your an idiot im canadian i dont support the toronto series at all BUT

if it wasnt for us canadian fans the bills would have moved long ago not what i want im a huge fan

but to want us not to come is ****ing ignorant

I didn't support the Toronto series either.

[coastal]

I wish I was Canadian.

[SpikedLemonade]

I wish I was Canadian.

I am surprised that this post was not responded to with a "just leave" post.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I don't anticipate a drop in Canadian fans.

[trapezeus]

Well, I'm an American Bills fan and don't recall saying anything about an "economic renaissance" or saying that American fans are more loyal.

I know you're trying to stir the pot with some on here and that's fine... You know as well as I do that we agree about many things regarding the Bills.

I am interested to see what happens to the Series after the new owner is announced. What if Pegula is named the owner and decides to continue the Series, for whatever reason?

To me, it looks like many want Pegula simply because "he won't move the team." I was actually thinking about making a thread (and still might) about selling me on Pegula, because, at least personally, the response of "he won't move the team" isn't a good enough reason for me to want him as owner. He's owned the Sabres for three years now and they haven't done jack.

Admittedly, I don't watch much hockey, so maybe there's a reason for the Sabres not being successful since Pegula took over. But, I dealt with that whole "at least we have a team" crap when Wilson was owner... I'm expecting a bit more from whoever the new owner is. I'd hope that other Bills fans are raising the bar a bit higher than "he won't move the team" too, but I'm not sure about that at this point.

-Bill

my sell on pegula is that he seems to be long term committed to a winner. he's following a fairly deliberate plan. i think it took him a year to not be enamored that he was a sports owner. but he gave the keys to the guys there and said, "money isn't an issue. win". They didn't and he cut them pretty fast. and instead of rushing to get some "name" players to sell seats, he got a unit of trusted advisors and made a move to get talent into the fold in a manner than can have a serious run.

will it pan out? who knows, but the pipeline looks pretty exciting and they have plenty of money if they need additional pieces as they improve.

he also doesn't beat the "we are poor little buffalo" routine of previous owners. he's a "we build it, they will come".

to me those are desires to be a winner and help the community. i dont think it comes with guarantees, but i'd rather be the worst team in the league trying to be really good than being a routine 6-10 team in the middle of the pack knowing that they are hitting their ceiling.

[SpikedLemonade]

he also doesn't beat the "we are poor little buffalo" routine of previous owners. he's a "we build it, they will come".

That part is refreshing.

I hope he is right since if he builds a new stadium, he will have more than half his worth sunk into Buffalo sports teams.

That is radically different than fracking.

[swiper]

I am surprised that this post was not responded to with a "just leave" post.

Surf's up.. Tide's out.. Lit still reigns in his little world.

[THATHURMANATOR]

That part is refreshing.

I hope he is right since if he builds a new stadium, he will have more than half his worth sunk into Buffalo sports teams.

That is radically different than fracking.

True but the NFL is a proven money maker.

Per below since the Packers are publicly held they had to report their revenues. They received 136 Million dollars last season from TV deals and other profits. You would have to imagine the Bills receive a similar amount. If a new stadium is built it would probably be at least 5 to 10 years out. In fact if a guy like Pegula gets the team he might be just happy enough with the profits the Bills currently make, meaning the new stadium could be at the high end of 10 years out. No one here disagrees that they could make more money in Toronto. All we are saying is that the team can also make quite a bit of money here as well. A guy like Pegula, who is very loyal to this region might not care about maximizing profits. He clearly hasn't with the Sabres (elbeit to a much less financial commitment)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11200179/nfl-teams-divided-6-billion-revenue-according-green-bay-packers-financials

[swiper]

I don't anticipate a drop in Canadian fans.

Anticipation. It's making me wait.

[better days]

I wish I was Canadian.

One Canadian AHOLE on this board is more than enough.

[justasportsfan]

Isn't the key to fan loyalty and support to attend games even when the team is bad? Bills fans have showed up even when the team is bad. I'm just saying that if we start winning, all the more people will show up and all this JBJ won't even matter. Winning fixes everything.






No I'm White but thanks for asking. Quoted Lecter because of how he spelled colored

[SpikedLemonade]

Bills fans have showed up even when the team is bad.

However, Brandon also emphasized the financial benefits of the series by saying that it has "taken a game out of the market that has essentially taken 70,000 seats out of our market, and [B]we've truly only sold out two of our home games". He went on to say "we've manufactured sellouts in the other four or five. We're trying to find ways to obviously keep this team viable and we've done a very good job, and this [Toronto] series has obviously contributed to that".[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bills_Toronto_Series#cite_note-review-32) Brandon has also said that the additional game would "stress-test the Buffalo market".

[SpikedLemonade]

One Canadian AHOLE on this board is more than enough.


Can you buy more Bills tickets this year?

Just to support the Bills.

Or are you only going to rely on Pegula's charity?

[Ed]

Why do you think the season ticket sales are so high this year?
I think it has a lot more to do with the new renovations and an overall increase in optimism with EJ and the coaching staff entering year two than Ralph Wilson passing away. My point is that if season tickets sales were at their lowest during the Toronto series, what's the benefit to keeping the Toronto series? Does it really matter what the percentage of Canadian sales are if the overall sales are up?

[better days]

Can you buy more Bills tickets this year?

Just to support the Bills.

Or are you only going to rely on Pegula's charity?

As I said, one Canadian AHOLE on this board is more than enough.

[SpikedLemonade]

As I said, one Canadian AHOLE on this board is more than enough.

So you won't put your big money where your big mouth is.

[stuckincincy]

I think it has a lot more to do with the new renovations and an overall increase in optimism with EJ and the coaching staff entering year two than Ralph Wilson passing away. My point is that if season tickets sales were at their lowest during the Toronto series, what's the benefit to keeping the Toronto series? Does it really matter what the percentage of Canadian sales are if the overall sales are up?

IIRC, the TOR games have been postponed this season.

[better days]

So you won't put your big money where your big mouth is.

I told you before I have spent a lot of money supporting the Bills over the years & I will spend money on the Bills this year as well.

And you have said you will spend less than zero.

[SpikedLemonade]

IIRC, the TOR games have been postponed this season.

The series is done.

"Postponed" was a face saver.

It will never be restarted.

With the increase in the price of season tickets this year due to 10 games rather than 9 and the new 3 level pricing scheme, the only reason season ticket sales are up is due to Ralph's death.

The tickets are being bought out of fear.

[SpikedLemonade]

I told you before I have spent a lot of money supporting the Bills over the years & I will spend money on the Bills this year as well.

And you have said you will spend less than zero.


I said I spend less and less.

Last year $300.

This year probably less.

However, it is up to you homers to pick up the slack so 4 or 5 sell outs don't need to be manufactured this year.

[Ed]

IIRC, the TOR games have been postponed this season.
I know, thanks.

- - - Updated - - -




The tickets are being bought out of fear.
Do you have any data to back up this claim?

[SpikedLemonade]

- Updated - - -


Do you have any data to back up this claim?

What data could there be?

Read the board and see if there is a renewed faith in EJ or the Bills coaching staff after last year's 6-10 record. Shouldn't season ticket sales have gone up last year when EJ was drafted and the new coaching staff was hired?

Prices went up for season tickets.

The only significant event that has occurred this off-season is Ralph's death and all this talk about the team possibly relocating.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I know, thanks.

- - - Updated - - -


Do you have any data to back up this claim?

As I have been told I am a small sample size but I put in my renewal for my 5 season tickets prior to Ralph's passing.

[ticatfan]

Not my fault you guys don't know the difference between '1', '5', '10', '20', '50', etc.We don't have a 1 dollar bill. Wake up.

[THATHURMANATOR]

WAKE THE **** UP LECTER!

[cookie G]

Can't any city of any sport claim the same regardless of the size of the **** stain?

Isn't the key to fan loyalty and support to attend games even when the team is bad?


Not according to you or Troy or Bduff...

You guys would go on and on about how Torontorians will support a "winner", implying that they wouldn't support a team that loses. (which is of course, what they do with any team not named Mapleleafs.).

[SpikedLemonade]

Not according to you or Troy or Bduff...

You guys would go on and on about how Torontorians will support a "winner", implying that they wouldn't support a team that loses. (which is of course, what they do with any team not named Mapleleafs.).

Torontorians will not support a team that does not belong to them.

[better days]

Torontorians will not support a team.

[cookie G]

Torontorians will not support a team that does not belong to them.

Or a team that does belong to them not named Mapleleafs.

[SpikedLemonade]

Or a team that does belong to them not named Mapleleafs.

Raptors and Blue Jays attendance at high ticket prices is pretty good.

I have no doubt that a NFL team in Toronto will do very well.

I have plenty of doubt that any public money will be spent on a new stadium there.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am sure the Bills would sell out in Toronto for a long time.

Plus you would have to think eventually they would field a good team.

[cookie G]

Raptors and Blue Jays attendance at high ticket prices is pretty good.

I have no doubt that a NFL team in Toronto will do very well.

I have plenty of doubt that any public money will be spent on a new stadium there.

uh huh