some observations

[chernobylwraiths]

Thought EJ looked pretty good.

Loved Sammy Watkins, made even not on target throws seem ordinary.

I liked how Spiller looked and feel he might be trade bait, because Watkins can do the same type of things he can, Freddy was extended, Brown looked good and Dixon is a beast. If they keep him, they have a great group of running backs.

With Watkins, Woods and Williams, we also have a really nice group of receivers.

I firmly believe EJ will be fine, he needs time to grow.

Defense looked really good, but might have difficulty with a running QB.

Lastly, anyone who feels that we already need a new QB or that EJ isn't the answer after only 10 games and barely any preseason games is a ***** moron. There are far more good to great QBs that didn't play well until there second or third year than ones played good from their first game/year. Let's give the guy a freaking chance for crying out loud.

[Typ0]

it's his second year not his first game/year. There has not been movement in the off season. You can make the same lame argument about Rob Johnson, Trent Edwards, JP Lossman etc. There are far more QBs who don't amount to **** and if you put all your eggs into their baskets you end up being the Bills.

[Parzival]

I also thought EJ looked markedly better in this game. Far from perfect, but dare I say, competent? He still is young after all. One decent game doesnt amount to much though so let's see if he can keep improving.

Defense looks legit. Would be reallllly nice to have Kiko.

[Fletch]

Not sure what you guys were watching. KneeJ looked good on the first drive, typical for us. After that he went 2 for 6 and looked problematic.

The rest doesn't matter and there are too many variables here to base "how the team looks" on two series. Most people here pretty much agree that if KneeJ plays well the team will. I disagree to an extent with that, but that's immaterial. By everyone's logic all that should matter is how KneeJ plays.

So far this preseason he's had one good drive. The first one in this game. The second drive he sucked. The third drive he had one notable pass.

Anyone thinking that this demonstrates improvement is deluding themselves.

[Skooby]

Not sure what you guys were watching. KneeJ looked good on the first drive, typical for us. After that he went 2 for 6 and looked problematic.

The rest doesn't matter and there are too many variables here to base "how the team looks" on two series. Most people here pretty much agree that if KneeJ plays well the team will. I disagree to an extent with that, but that's immaterial. By everyone's logic all that should matter is how KneeJ plays.

So far this preseason he's had one good drive. The first one in this game. The second drive he sucked. The third drive he had one notable pass.

Anyone thinking that this demonstrates improvement is deluding themselves.

Kneej? Can't we get a higher caliber of troll in here ?

[swiper]

Thought EJ looked pretty good.

Loved Sammy Watkins, made even not on target throws seem ordinary.

I liked how Spiller looked and feel he might be trade bait, because Watkins can do the same type of things he can, Freddy was extended, Brown looked good and Dixon is a beast. If they keep him, they have a great group of running backs.

With Watkins, Woods and Williams, we also have a really nice group of receivers.

I firmly believe EJ will be fine, he needs time to grow.

Defense looked really good, but might have difficulty with a running QB.

Lastly, anyone who feels that we already need a new QB or that EJ isn't the answer after only 10 games and barely any preseason games is a ***** moron. There are far more good to great QBs that didn't play well until there second or third year than ones played good from their first game/year. Let's give the guy a freaking chance for crying out loud.

Well you're right about Spiller at least.

Tuel and Manuel started at the same time. The development in Tuel has been levels higher than that of Manuel. Its easy to see on the field.

[chernobylwraiths]

it's his second year not his first game/year. There has not been movement in the off season. You can make the same lame argument about Rob Johnson, Trent Edwards, JP Lossman etc. There are far more QBs who don't amount to **** and if you put all your eggs into their baskets you end up being the Bills.

I know, it's the internet age of "if you aren't great by the 3rd game, then you're out. You're the type of "he has to be great now" idiot I'm talking about. I've seen far worse in QBs for the Bills and seen enough good things from EJ to be more patient. A QB, even all of those in that group, need to be given a chance to get better and all of them did and proved they weren't good enough. But they still needed time, and got it. Now is EJ's time. And we don't have any other options right now.

[chernobylwraiths]

Not sure what you guys were watching. KneeJ looked good on the first drive, typical for us. After that he went 2 for 6 and looked problematic.

The rest doesn't matter and there are too many variables here to base "how the team looks" on two series. Most people here pretty much agree that if KneeJ plays well the team will. I disagree to an extent with that, but that's immaterial. By everyone's logic all that should matter is how KneeJ plays.

So far this preseason he's had one good drive. The first one in this game. The second drive he sucked. The third drive he had one notable pass.

Anyone thinking that this demonstrates improvement is deluding themselves.

Well your second sentence proves you don't know what you are talking about. The Bills under EJ have been terrible starters typically. Carolina's defense is typically pretty damned good too.

[chernobylwraiths]

Well you're right about Spiller at least.

Tuel and Manuel started at the same time. The development in Tuel has been levels higher than that of Manuel. Its easy to see on the field.

Yeah, Tuel sure looks good against backups. Easy to see that.

I do remember how he looked against Cleveland and KC last year.

[swiper]

Yeah, Tuel sure looks good against backups. Easy to see that.

I do remember how he looked against Cleveland and KC last year.

If you understand what you're looking at, you would agree with all the reports that have him as noticeably improved. That versus every day camp reports of Manuel struggling.

Again, I'm not suggesting the Bills start Tuel over their 2013 first round pick, but - both QBs started at the same time. One has clearly showed improvement. One clearly has not. All the people claiming "Manuel looked good" don't seem to see that Hackett is giving him quick single read looks that would make most any high school QB look good. When he takes actual time to look around for a receiver he always takes too long, usually getting sacked. The only pass (where they let him look) that "worked out for him" was that completion to Mike Williams over the middle. Manuel actually found the receiver. But then threw the ball too high. It only worked out because Williams leapt up an grabbed it.

[Famous Amos]

One pass by EJ stood out to me. It was for a first down. There was some pressure and he had to get rid of it fast because the pocket was collapsing. So he calmly chucks a three yard spear at CJ Spiller in traffic, flat footed. Almost looked like an after thought. Spiller did a nice job corralling the ball. It showed patience, poise and confidence.

[SquishDaFish]

:roflmao: What a :shortbus:

[Thurmal]

I don't want the EJ thing to turn into what the Rams do with Bradford and what the Vikes did with Ponder -- playing a QB that sucks for 3 years just because he is a first rounder and hoping that he'll somehow become good out of nowhere.

He's got a ton of weapons on this team. If he struggles this year they need to cut the cord, period. I'm tired of watching this team suck.

[Typ0]

3rd game? I'm not going to say it again. Your attitude is the one that allows single players to set franchises back decades.


I know, it's the internet age of "if you aren't great by the 3rd game, then you're out. You're the type of "he has to be great now" idiot I'm talking about. I've seen far worse in QBs for the Bills and seen enough good things from EJ to be more patient. A QB, even all of those in that group, need to be given a chance to get better and all of them did and proved they weren't good enough. But they still needed time, and got it. Now is EJ's time. And we don't have any other options right now.

[Dr. Lecter]

3rd game? I'm not going to say it again. Your attitude is the one that allows single players to set franchises back decades.
So you give up on players after 10 games?

[Typ0]

So you give up on players after 10 games?

It's not the amount of games. It's the amount of time and his showing up after an off season of composting as the same guy. I would not say I have given up on him either ... I would say I think it's ridiculous we have no other options though .... if he's going to grow it's likely going to take some time: like in the 5 - 10 season range. And he's going to need to work in different systems. I can see EJ has potential for a successful quarterbacking career. Maybe getting it together and being on a good team later in his career. He's not a good fit here. Anyone clamoring that he is a good fit here has their homer glasses on and ANYONE could be in that position they would be good enough.

[DraftBoy]

If you understand what you're looking at.

Really? Can you break it down for us?

[Forward_Lateral]

it's his second year not his first game/year. There has not been movement in the off season. You can make the same lame argument about Rob Johnson, Trent Edwards, JP Lossman etc. There are far more QBs who don't amount to **** and if you put all your eggs into their baskets you end up being the Bills.

Every NFL team puts all their proverbial eggs in one basket when it comes to starting QBs.

[justasportsfan]

Ej looked better. Does that mean he's good to go? No way, but call a spade a spade. He played better.

Tuel played vs back ups but he played WITH back ups.

[HHURRICANE]

Thought EJ looked pretty good.

Loved Sammy Watkins, made even not on target throws seem ordinary.

I liked how Spiller looked and feel he might be trade bait, because Watkins can do the same type of things he can, Freddy was extended, Brown looked good and Dixon is a beast. If they keep him, they have a great group of running backs.

With Watkins, Woods and Williams, we also have a really nice group of receivers.

I firmly believe EJ will be fine, he needs time to grow.

Defense looked really good, but might have difficulty with a running QB.

Lastly, anyone who feels that we already need a new QB or that EJ isn't the answer after only 10 games and barely any preseason games is a ***** moron. There are far more good to great QBs that didn't play well until there second or third year than ones played good from their first game/year. Let's give the guy a freaking chance for crying out loud.

Unlike Rob Johnson, Lossman, and all of the other non-Kelly QBs at least Manuel plays with confidence and seems to have the support of his teammates.

He doesn't have to be great for us to win and make the playoffs. He just has to be effective. The Bills brought in players that can make plays for him so I think we will be ok.

One last point. Unlike other QBs, including Mr. Harvard, he seems to keep himself enough in check that he won't throw games away by making stupid plays when the game is on the line.

[Captain gameboy]

EJ has a very brief history, but it does include a skill of kind of "playing into" games.

By that I mean he seems to start out a bit robotic, but get better as he gets additional snaps.

His workload this preseason, at least in games, doesn't allow for that to develop.

My view last night was that he was told to call the play, get the ball out early, and be done with it.

Thus, my view is that its very hard to judge his field vision under those limited conditions.

Still, his performance during camp, if not troubling, seems to be a bit less than expected.

Two more weeks of work and we'll know a lot more.

[swiper]

Really? Can you break it down for us?

You too should watch Blake Bortles performance against Tampa Bay, then go back and watch Manuel. Tool.

[MikeInRoch]

Bortles had a good drive against backups. Did you watch it, or are you just pulling crap out of the air?

[DraftBoy]

You too should watch Blake Bortles performance against Tampa Bay, then go back and watch Manuel. Tool.

I have.

You didn't address my question.

[swiper]

I watched it. I suggest you do to. Watch how he can drop back, scan the field, and find a receiver. All the things Manuel can't do very well.

So did others.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/08/blake-bortles-impressive-in-his-jaguars-debut/

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/nfl/jaguars/os-jaguars-blake-bortles-0809-20140808,0,1484184.story

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2157415-blake-bortles-strong-debut-is-encouraging-start-for-jacksonville-jaguars

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/134786/bortles-takes-another-step-forward

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000376008/article/blake-bortles-looks-the-part-in-jaguars-debut

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/article1181782.html

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Blake-Bortles-has-solid-game-in-preseason-opener.html

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/8/9/5985139/blake-bortles-jaguars-quarterback-competition-chad-henne-gus-bradley/in/5747746

[swiper]

I have.

You didn't address my question.

See above. If you have to ask the question, then you have a problem.

[Albany,n.y.]

Not sure what you guys were watching. KneeJ looked good on the first drive, typical for us. After that he went 2 for 6 and looked problematic.

The rest doesn't matter and there are too many variables here to base "how the team looks" on two series. Most people here pretty much agree that if KneeJ plays well the team will. I disagree to an extent with that, but that's immaterial. By everyone's logic all that should matter is how KneeJ plays.

So far this preseason he's had one good drive. The first one in this game. The second drive he sucked. The third drive he had one notable pass.

Anyone thinking that this demonstrates improvement is deluding themselves.

You sure like being miserable. In the perfect world for you, no QB would ever pan out, the Bills would go 0-16 because they have no 1st round pick and then be moved to LA by the new owner. Must suck being you.

[Skooby]

You sure like being miserable. In the perfect world for you, no QB would ever pan out, the Bills would go 0-16 because they have no 1st round pick and then be moved to LA by the new owner. Must suck being you.

This board needs a better class of troll, one that sucks you in and black-asses you until you hate the team. Haven't had a good one like that in a while & the BBMB just bans you for even mentioning negative ideas or hides them in other posts.

[CoolBreeze]

EJ will do just fine. He looked very composed for the better part of the Panthers game. Just watching the "all is lost" group comment on the GDT yesterday was comical. Manuel hits Watkins 15 yards, then 7-11 for a 30+ yard completion.. Started the game 7/8 but still when he took a sack and had that incompletion, the negative comments sprung up on how terrible he is. Not even week 1 yet... And you would think fans would support their team and players blindly. At least until they stunk it up in a regular season loss, guess those days are gone

[Dr. Who]

This board needs a better class of troll, one that sucks you in and black-asses you until you hate the team. Haven't had a good one like that in a while & the BBMB just bans you for even mentioning negative ideas or hides them in other posts.

Really? There are tons of negative posters on BBMB.

Personally, I try to separate the team from the "fans." Trolls don't make me hate the team, they confirm my basic misanthropy.

[Dr. Who]

EJ will do just fine. He looked very composed for the better part of the Panthers game. Just watching the "all is lost" group comment on the GDT yesterday was comical. Manuel hits Watkins 15 yards, then 7-11 for a 30+ yard completion.. Started the game 7/8 but still when he took a sack and had that incompletion, the negative comments sprung up on how terrible he is. Not even week 1 yet... And you would think fans would support their team and players blindly. At least until they stunk it up in a regular season loss, guess those days are gone

It's times like these, I ask myself, what would Swiper, Fletch, Tackling Dummy, et al, say?


You mean he finished 2 - 5? See, that's regression. It actually proves the 2-7 in the HOF game wasn't a fluke. Ah, I feel so much better and so much more intelligent than those idiotic homers who can't see that EJ is a miserable failure.


Splendid fellows, one and all.

[Oaf]

One pass by EJ stood out to me. It was for a first down. There was some pressure and he had to get rid of it fast because the pocket was collapsing. So he calmly chucks a three yard spear at CJ Spiller in traffic, flat footed. Almost looked like an after thought. Spiller did a nice job corralling the ball. It showed patience, poise and confidence.

+1

[Night Train]

My hope is the OL getting the starters established very soon, so they can get work together for a while prior to the opener. Glenn just passed his physical and was activated.

Hated the short yardage calls early, although Fred Jackson was screwed by a ref moving the ball back a foot after the initial spot. Still, that's a Dixon or Brown play during the regular season.

Still see the Bills running more than most teams, which is still fine with me. 4 good RB's.

[Fletch]

Kneej? Can't we get a higher caliber of troll in here ?


Well your second sentence proves you don't know what you are talking about. The Bills under EJ have been terrible starters typically. Carolina's defense is typically pretty damned good too.

Say what you want, call me a troll, say whatever other childish nonsense you want to because you can't think of a counter to the facts that I stated.

He started well but then fizzled equally. The single biggest problem of his is that he's incapable of playing 4 good quarters of football. That's not the mark of a QB that's going to be even average at any point in his career.

So if you two lovebirds want to cram it down our throats that Manuel played well, at least have the forthrightness to qualify that it was the first part of his play that was good.

Unless of course you think that going 2 for 6 and finishing the game on a 3-yard scramble on 20-to-go while leading the team on a 13-yard drive followed by a 35-yard drive/punt is good, which apparently you do.

It's no wonder the expectations among fans in Buffalo are so low.

[chernobylwraiths]

Joe Webb played great, we should get him.

[Mike]

Thought EJ looked pretty good.

Loved Sammy Watkins, made even not on target throws seem ordinary.

I liked how Spiller looked and feel he might be trade bait, because Watkins can do the same type of things he can, Freddy was extended, Brown looked good and Dixon is a beast. If they keep him, they have a great group of running backs.

With Watkins, Woods and Williams, we also have a really nice group of receivers.

I firmly believe EJ will be fine, he needs time to grow.

Defense looked really good, but might have difficulty with a running QB.

Lastly, anyone who feels that we already need a new QB or that EJ isn't the answer after only 10 games and barely any preseason games is a ***** moron. There are far more good to great QBs that didn't play well until there second or third year than ones played good from their first game/year. Let's give the guy a freaking chance for crying out loud.

Regarding EJ
It sounds like your basing your statement a belief instead of observation.

[Mike]

Not sure what you guys were watching. KneeJ looked good on the first drive, typical for us. After that he went 2 for 6 and looked problematic.

The rest doesn't matter and there are too many variables here to base "how the team looks" on two series. Most people here pretty much agree that if KneeJ plays well the team will. I disagree to an extent with that, but that's immaterial. By everyone's logic all that should matter is how KneeJ plays.

So far this preseason he's had one good drive. The first one in this game. The second drive he sucked. The third drive he had one notable pass.

Anyone thinking that this demonstrates improvement is deluding themselves.

Any lack of obvious improvement is a sign of the opposite - relative regression.

From what I've seen, EJ lacks in certain needed fundamental skills to such an extent that it is irrational to think that all if the sudden he will some attain these skills.

[kishoph]

Not sure what you guys were watching. KneeJ looked good on the first drive, typical for us. After that he went 2 for 6 and looked problematic.

The rest doesn't matter and there are too many variables here to base "how the team looks" on two series. Most people here pretty much agree that if KneeJ plays well the team will. I disagree to an extent with that, but that's immaterial. By everyone's logic all that should matter is how KneeJ plays.

So far this preseason he's had one good drive. The first one in this game. The second drive he sucked. The third drive he had one notable pass.

Anyone thinking that this demonstrates improvement is deluding themselves.

Not sure what you're watching, after the 1st drive Manuel went 5 of 9, and the last drive would of brought points if it wasn't for a holding call on Lee Smith that took the ball from the Panthers 21 back to the 48. Maybe next game instead of switching channels back and forth to watch re-runs of the bachelor, just concentrate on watching the game. Or better yet just stick to watching the bachelor, maybe you'll find the man of your dreams.

[YardRat]

lol...five drives over two preseason games proves a QB can't play four regular season quarters. Unbelievable.

[better days]

Yeah, Tuel sure looks good against backups. Easy to see that.

I do remember how he looked against Cleveland and KC last year.

And has any QB in Bills history thrown more INT's in the opposing teams end zone in so few attempts as Tuel has?

[DraftBoy]

See above. If you have to ask the question, then you have a problem.

I asked the original question because you claimed you could see things other weren't. Are you going to actually break down what you claim you can see?

[Typ0]

lol...five drives over two preseason games proves a QB can't play four regular season quarters. Unbelievable.

That we are seeing the exact same guy we saw in all the games last year is discouraging.