What did you think of Johnny Football?

[Mike]

Saw every play of his the other night. He looks like he did in college: has 'it' factor, quick release, accuracy, understood defenses, etc...

In a short span he has shown that he has the following:
1) top 5 ceiling & 'it' factor
2) great fundamentals
(Accuracy, Timing, etc)
3) Dual threat
4) hight issues
5) character concerns

Compared with EJ, Johhny Football has a much higher ceiling & floor. He can be top 5 and the only advantages EJ has are not directly football related: size & character.

[Forward_Lateral]

He's a garbage can.

[Historian]

2nd cousin to Jimmy Clausen

[Forward_Lateral]

If EJ put up a 5.7 yards per attempt and a 79 QB rating, he'd be called a loser/dink and dunker and a bust.

[Buffalogic]

Total bust. No Mike Evans to save him on his questionable lobs. He will be forgotten very soon.

[The King]

He's going to get killed.

[Static]

He's the less christian verson of Tim Tebow...

[TedMock]

It was his first bit of action. Too soon, but I was not impressed.

[Jry44]

He's going to get killed.

Agreed. He was diving head first after he ran, and got stopped dead in his tracks on a read option that he used to break out on in college. 1st teamers will absolutely abuse this kid.

[OpIv37]

Saw every play of his the other night. He looks like he did in college: has 'it' factor, quick release, accuracy, understood defenses, etc...

In a short span he has shown that he has the following:
1) top 5 ceiling & 'it' factor
2) great fundamentals
(Accuracy, Timing, etc)
3) Dual threat
4) hight issues
5) character concerns

Compared with EJ, Johhny Football has a much higher ceiling & floor. He can be top 5 and the only advantages EJ has are not directly football related: size & character.

The sample size is WAY too small to be meaningful. Remember, at this point last off-season, we could have said lots of very good things about Jeff Tuel.....

[trapezeus]

his size is the thing that would have me the most concerned if he was on the bills. he's exciting, but if he doesn't want to learn up the play book and wants to make plays with his feet when dump offs are available, he'll be a vick like character spending 3 weeks as everyone's darling and 3-6 on IR.

[Mr. Pink]

The read option that he dove head first and got stopped on a 3rd and 1 was his only real bad play of the game, should have given the ball to the RB.

He'll need to pick his spots to run at the NFL level as his athleticism alone won't carry him, whether he learns that or not before he gets killed is another story entirely.

Good placement on passes when he had time, poor footwork and weird jittery jump passes when pressured.

[kishoph]

In a short span he has shown that he has the following:
1) top 5 ceiling & 'it' factor
2) great fundamentals
(Accuracy, Timing, etc)
3) Dual threat
4) hight issues
5) character concerns



I'd have to say that the first time I've ever seen "great fundamentals" and Johnny Manziel ever associated with each other.

[tampabay25690]

Exciting player to watch.
They will have to build a offense around him that suits his needs.
Big problem Cleve has no playmakers when Gordon is suspended for the year.
Wait and see for him.

[ServoBillieves]

http://ilovefootballseason.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/johnny-manziel.jpg

[Mike]

If EJ put up a 5.7 yards per attempt and a 79 QB rating, he'd be called a loser/dink and dunker and a bust.

Lol. I don't know what your trying to say... EJ passer rating in his first preseason game this year vs Giants was a 39.6!

[keep in mind were comparing a pro here to a rookie...]


Many fans -such as yourself- have a wait and see approach when it comes to EJ and an overall positive judgement. When it comes to other teams QBs, you trash them and if they succeed it is because of the system or their weapons.

[Mike]

The read option that he dove head first and got stopped on a 3rd and 1 was his only real bad play of the game, should have given the ball to the RB.

He'll need to pick his spots to run at the NFL level as his athleticism alone won't carry him, whether he learns that or not before he gets killed is another story entirely.

Good placement on passes when he had time, poor footwork and weird jittery jump passes when pressured.

There were a couple of plays: that he was off target or late. The jump pass was partly due to him missing on the hot wr who was open for a first down.

As he learns the game and as it slows down, I think he will have the opportunity to get better at seeing the field and making the right decisions. Learning to slide for instance is a pretty easy lesson to learn.

I think he as a little jittery behind that weak browns 2nd team line but he showed some good stuff: accuracy, quick release, arm strength, mobility, and improv. And he is definitely fun to watch.

[Mike]

The sample size is WAY too small to be meaningful. Remember, at this point last off-season, we could have said lots of very good things about Jeff Tuel.....

I am also basing this on his body of work. He looks like the same player he was at Texas A&M.

If we took his name off the jersey, you would still be able to distinguish him by how he runs, throws the ball, the way he plays football. BTW, EJ looks the same now as he did at FSU. You can easily distinguish him by the way he plays football.

When evaluating a QB, I like to ask that question: 'If he played just like this in the pros (accuracy, mobility, etc) would you want this guy?' and for a guy like EJ my answer would be hell no and for Johnny I think it is worth the risk/reward of a mid 1st rounder.

[Forward_Lateral]

Lol. I don't know what your trying to say... EJ passer rating in his first preseason game this year vs Giants was a 39.6!

[keep in mind were comparing a pro here to a rookie...]


Many fans -such as yourself- have a wait and see approach when it comes to EJ and an overall positive judgement. When it comes to other teams QBs, you trash them and if they succeed it is because of the system or their weapons.

I'm saying your post is stupid. How you can say Manziel has good fundamentals, and a higher ceiling is wrong. His fundamentals are terrible.

[Mike]

his size is the thing that would have me the most concerned if he was on the bills. he's exciting, but if he doesn't want to learn up the play book and wants to make plays with his feet when dump offs are available, he'll be a vick like character spending 3 weeks as everyone's darling and 3-6 on IR.

This is the Risk on Johnny Football. He has most of the tangibles and cool 'IT' factor but he lacks in other areas: character. Character goes a very very long way and without it, many things are lost! However between two options of having 1) a player that has tons of talent but lacks character and 2) a player that has tons of character but lacks talent, I would go with payer #1.

Why?

Because he may work on his character and become a great player, like Chris Carter did. However if he lacks talent and has all the Character in the world, he would only cost my team time, money and aggravation with the fan base, just like Tim Tebow.

If it is all about character and if talent didn't matter, then Tim Tebow would be the top QB in the NFL

[trapezeus]

manziel has the same chances of making it as EJ at this point. he's exciting, has some pros and has some cons. i am not convinced pure athletic qbs who don't seem to care about playbooks and just believe in themselves works out in most cases. but it does occassionally work out.

i don't think EJ and manziel are similar, but i just htink their pro days have been fairly limited and there isn't anything to this point that can let you definitively claim, "he'll be fine" or "he's a bust"

[Mike]

I'm saying your post is stupid. How you can say Manziel has good fundamentals, and a higher ceiling is wrong. His fundamentals are terrible.

You changed the argument! Lol...

As far as fundamentals go here is what I saw:
quick compact throwing motion
accurate
decent footwork
- he missed a few throws or was late.
- he missed hot read on a couple of plays but made up for them via QB sneak.

His QB Fundamentals for a Rookie QB playing his first Preseason Game was Good (no he is not polished or Manning-esque).

Here is Ron Jaworski, one of Jahnny's biggest critics, on the topic, "But mechanically there he was fine. His weight was on his back foot. Compact, quick delivery. But when the ball is between the hashmarks, you have to drive it to the receiver." "I like what I see," Jaworski said. "The ball comes out well."

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/6128/jaworski-on-manziel-starting-he-wont

[Mike]

manziel has the same chances of making it as EJ at this point. he's exciting, has some pros and has some cons. i am not convinced pure athletic qbs who don't seem to care about playbooks and just believe in themselves works out in most cases. but it does occassionally work out.

i don't think EJ and manziel are similar, but i just htink their pro days have been fairly limited and there isn't anything to this point that can let you definitively claim, "he'll be fine" or "he's a bust"

I don't know what metric you are using to evaluate their chances of 'making it' and how you are defining success.

In my assessment, I would give EJ less than a 2.5% chance of becoming a top 5 QB in the league. For Manziel I would give him a 20% chance. Odds are that both fail, but at least with Johhny we will have excitement and a 1/5 shot at hitting the QB jackpot. With EJ, its more like a 1/40 shot, its boring, and your better off playing roulette. When it comes to 1st round picks, I like to go with the higher Probability and higher ceiling.

[Jry44]

He's slower, smaller, and has a weaker arm and is less accurate than Michael Vick. His first instinct is always to run, which will often have him injured. He'll be nothing more than a poor mans Michael Vick, and might not even be in the league in 5 years from now.

[DynaPaul]

At least his family is rich so when he bombs out of the league he'll still have money...

[Turf]

I think he's already better than any QB on our roster.

[Night Train]

A warm weather/dome team would have been his best chance.

That Cleveland stadium right on the water will be his undoing in those late season games.

[better days]

He's the less christian verson of Tim Tebow...

Less Christian MUCH SMALLER version of Tim Tebow.

As others have said it is not if Johnny gets injured, the question is when will Johnny get injured.

[stuckincincy]

The read option that he dove head first and got stopped on a 3rd and 1 was his only real bad play of the game, should have given the ball to the RB.

He'll need to pick his spots to run at the NFL level as his athleticism alone won't carry him, whether he learns that or not before he gets killed is another story entirely.

Good placement on passes when he had time, poor footwork and weird jittery jump passes when pressured.

Good read - that's just the impression I got, watching his small amount of play. He looked like he was wearing a flak jacket...

[kishoph]

His QB Fundamentals for a Rookie QB playing his first Preseason Game was Good (no he is not polished or Manning-esque).

Here is Ron Jaworski, one of Jahnny's biggest critics, on the topic, "But mechanically there he was fine. His weight was on his back foot. Compact, quick delivery. But when the ball is between the hashmarks, you have to drive it to the receiver." "I like what I see," Jaworski said. "The ball comes out well."

http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/6128/jaworski-on-manziel-starting-he-wont

How is he mechanically doing fine if he's throwing off his back foot ?

[Mike13]

He's the less christian verson of Tim Tebow...

Fratbro Tebow

[trapezeus]

I don't know what metric you are using to evaluate their chances of 'making it' and how you are defining success.

In my assessment, I would give EJ less than a 2.5% chance of becoming a top 5 QB in the league. For Manziel I would give him a 20% chance. Odds are that both fail, but at least with Johhny we will have excitement and a 1/5 shot at hitting the QB jackpot. With EJ, its more like a 1/40 shot, its boring, and your better off playing roulette. When it comes to 1st round picks, I like to go with the higher Probability and higher ceiling.

i don't have a strong metric. i'm going with EJ's stats from year 1. totally an unfinished season, but his numbers are comparative to QBs who went on to be stars in the league for many years and they are similar to players who just got worse. With 10 games, i am not comfortable saying he's a bust just yet. the thing about EJ is that he comes off as
1. wanting to be on this team and wanting to be the man to lead this team (not a trait of many of the QB's who were supposed to be the saviors, ie. losman, edwards, johnson).
2. he isn't a sulker. he can have a crappy first half and he comes out without the slumped shoulders and ripping off the chin strap where you know it can't get better. he hasn't done it consistently to win, but to me it says he knows how to shrug off bad starts. a good trait to have that none of the qbs back to johnson with the exception flutie had.
3. if he plays all the games this year and there is improvement, he'll have played 26 games. if after 20, he looks unchanged, then i think we know what we need to know and should prepare for a future with a different qb.

Manziel was an excellent college QB. he's got the IT factor. it's hard to quantify. but for every favre/steve young that can get away with it, there are a lot of cunninghams, vicks, tebows, vince youngs, jamarcus russells that don't make it. i guess i can see your 1/5 chance based on that. but i think EJ is currently showing a 50/50 chance at this Flop stage of the hand we've drawn. let's see what the next card shows us and see if we need to fold or go all in.

[better days]

I don't know what metric you are using to evaluate their chances of 'making it' and how you are defining success.

In my assessment, I would give EJ less than a 2.5% chance of becoming a top 5 QB in the league. For Manziel I would give him a 20% chance. Odds are that both fail, but at least with Johhny we will have excitement and a 1/5 shot at hitting the QB jackpot. With EJ, its more like a 1/40 shot, its boring, and your better off playing roulette. When it comes to 1st round picks, I like to go with the higher Probability and higher ceiling.

If you think EJ is boring to watch, you have not been watching him.

He was injured while running picking up extra yards against Cleveland.

That might have been a stupid thing for EJ to do to try to get a few extra meaningless yards, but it was NOT boring.

[Ingtar33]

while we're evaluating rookie QBs after 1 preseason game, why not talk about Logan Thomas?

He was the best looking QB in preseason last weekend. Of course it was against 3rd string scrubs... but hey! he's a 4th rounder and looked like an all pro! I mean it's preseason... it means something right?

[Mace]

1st teamers will absolutely abuse this kid.

After a couple games, yes. A linebacker, CB or safety will end his season either on a blitz or when he's going for that one or two extra yards past the line of scrimmage.

I just doubt his survivability because his sense of himself from his college career is going to lead him into one instinctive play too many. And that's what his game is all about. Won't work in the NFL imho.

[TacklingDummy]

Should have been the Bills selection.

Looks better than Manuel already.

And we would still have our 1st next year.

[YardRat]

Not a fan, and don't think he'll amount to much, but I've started rooting for the kid just because I have family that are Browns fans.

[Ingtar33]

Should have been the Bills selection.

Looks better than Manuel already.

And we would still have our 1st next year.

I think he's a lock for a Ryan Leaf style career... that said who knows? the kid might be able to grow into the pro game. he certainly was exciting in college. While we're on the topic of QBs who look better then EJ Manuel while playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers... did you see what Logan Thomas did against those 3rd string scrubs?

[better days]

Should have been the Bills selection.

Looks better than Manuel already.

And we would still have our 1st next year.

And we would need our first next year to draft a QB if the Bills cut bait on EJ in favor of Johnny football.

And we would not have Sammy Watkins either.

That is a lose, lose situation IMO.

[Forward_Lateral]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/s526x395/10464327_10203431291996475_5716708167935214913_n.jpg

[imbondz]

Manziel is on pace to be out of the league in 1-2 years.

Not because he can't compete but because his scrambling is going to get him destroyed. He isn't half as athletic as Michael Vick but tries to do the same things. It'll work for a few games.

Unless he learns to be a pocket passer he won't make it. Hope I'm wrong cuz he's exciting to watch. Even tho I only like Cleveland when they are losing.

[imbondz]

He's slower, smaller, and has a weaker arm and is less accurate than Michael Vick. His first instinct is always to run, which will often have him injured. He'll be nothing more than a poor mans Michael Vick, and might not even be in the league in 5 years from now.

Totally agree

[stuckincincy]

"Johnny get angry, Johnny get mad,
Give them the biggest finger they ever had..."

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24667073/johnny-manziel-flicks-someone-off-during-browns-redskins

:kid:

[IlluminatusUIUC]

He cracks me up. I wish him well, because it makes people's heads explode when a guy like that is successful in football.

[Historian]

He cracks me up. I wish him well, because it makes people's heads explode when a guy like that is successful in football.


After 10 seasons in Canada perhaps....

[Fletch]

This is hysterical. The same people defending Manuel have Manziel, who's gone 14 for 27 for 128, 1 TD, no INTs this preseason in about 3 quarters worth of action, busting.

Oh the humor here.

Oh, and I thought that Cleveland's WRs sucked and were far worse than ours. Do we need to go dig up those threads. LOL

I would trade Manziel for Manuel without a thought. I'm not saying he's the next great, but at least he's showing that he knows what's going on while he's on the field. His protection also isn't as good as Manuel's I've noticed.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

After 10 seasons in Canada perhaps....

Oh my god ticat's reactions would be even funnier if he did