Will Toronto EVER get an NFL team?

[better days]

That is the poll question in the Toronto Sun.

As of now 80% of respondents answered NO.

That Spiked Lemonade must be tasting pretty sour about now.

[don137]

No offense but who cares...heck, they can't even field a competitive hockey team and that is their national pastime.

[Historian]

This is just my perception but...

I don't think the Canadians even want one. Attendance at those Toronto games stunk.

The Canadians want to come down here to join our party. Sundays at the Ralph are more of a celebration of life than a football game.

They can't do that up there.

JMO.

[Homegrown]

Toronto has the same "problem" LA has... No stadium.

I truly believe if LA or Toronto had a modern, ready to use NFL stadium build ( or being built), some multi-billionare would have paid a premium for the Bills, paid the fee to break the lease, and moved the team ASAP.

We may have dodged a bullet this time, but I get this feeling if the state & county don't commit to a new stadium by 2020, we're going to go through this whole "relocation" thing again.

[OpIv37]

Toronto and Buffalo will NEVER have teams at the same time. There is too much overlap in the fan base. Toronto will only get a team if the Bills move there, or if the Bills move somewhere far away (like LA) and then TO gets an expansion team.

As long as the Bills are entrenched in Buffalo, Toronto will not get a team.

The flip side of that: the nightmare scenario for Bills fans is a team in Toronto. If the team were to go to LA or somewhere else far, there is always the possibility of a Cleveland/Houston situation where we get the team back in an expansion. But if Toronto gets a team, then Buffalo would NEVER get another NFL team, at least not in any of our lifetimes.

[chris66]

That is the poll question in the Toronto Sun.

As of now 80% of respondents answered NO.

That Spiked Lemonade must be tasting pretty sour about now.no, not because they don't want one. Nfl won't allow it as long as the bills call Toronto their market

[better days]

no, not because they don't want one. Nfl won't allow it as long as the bills call Toronto their market

Well, I really don't think the majority of the population in Toronto really gives a damn about having an NFL team, but I agree Toronto is a part of Buffalo's market

[WagonCircler]

Toronto has the same "problem" LA has... No stadium..

You're half right.

Toronto has the same problem as LA.

No fan support.

[Mr. Pink]

People didn't go to the Bills games there because the Bills aren't their team and let's be real here, they sucked for the entirety of the series.

Plus it's not like any marquee matchups were played there.

Say the Bills didn't have a team, would you go to the Ralph to watch the Browns play the Jags?

[SpikedLemonade]

People didn't go to the Bills games there because the Bills aren't their team and let's be real here, they sucked for the entirety of the series.

Plus it's not like any marquee matchups were played there.

Say the Bills didn't have a team, would you go to the Ralph to watch the Browns play the Jags?

You are wasting your breath. They just don't get it.

Let's see if the big mouths keep buying tickets when they are not the cheapest in the NFL.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I will continue to buy tickets.

And I do understand the point on the Bills not being their team and no good matchups leading to poor attendance for the Toronto series.

If Toronto had an NFL team I am sure they would support it. It doesn't appear however they will get a team any time soon.

[BuffaloRedleg]

People didn't go to the Bills games there because the Bills aren't their team and let's be real here, they sucked for the entirety of the series.

Plus it's not like any marquee matchups were played there.

Say the Bills didn't have a team, would you go to the Ralph to watch the Browns play the Jags?

I think we all absolutely would go to that game (if we hadn't lost the Bills in the first place, let's just say they never existed).

Those problems don't go away either if they get their own team. A Toronto v Jags game is most likely going to be just as much of a snoozer as a Bills v Jags game. Most games are not marquee matchups and most teams are middling garbage.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I think we all absolutely would go to that game (if we hadn't lost the Bills in the first place, let's just say they never existed).

Those problems don't go away either if they get their own team. A Toronto v Jags game is most likely going to be just as much of a snoozer as a Bills v Jags game. Most games are not marquee matchups and most teams are middling garbage.

I wouldnt. I don't care about either of those teams.

[SpikedLemonade]

I wouldnt. I don't care about either of those teams.

Then just imagine paying almost 4 times as much for those tickets in Toronto than they are in Buffalo. That was how they were initially priced.

In fact, when the series was first announced, you had to buy the whole series upfront -- 5 regular season games plus 3 pre-season games over 5 years.

It was a disaster.

[stuckincincy]

Then just imagine paying almost 4 times as much for those tickets in Toronto than they are in Buffalo. That was how they were initially priced.

In fact, when the series was first announced, you had to buy the whole series upfront -- 5 regular season games plus 3 pre-season games over 5 years.

It was a disaster.

I remember that. The pricing boggled anyone's mind.

[Mr. Pink]

I think we all absolutely would go to that game (if we hadn't lost the Bills in the first place, let's just say they never existed).

Those problems don't go away either if they get their own team. A Toronto v Jags game is most likely going to be just as much of a snoozer as a Bills v Jags game. Most games are not marquee matchups and most teams are middling garbage.

When you have a game at a neutral site, which is what Toronto is right now, you have to pull in teams people nationally/globally care about. Put two garbage teams there, which is what all of these matchups we've put there have been, and you see what happens.

If you put a Bills vs Broncos or Colts a few years ago game there, the game would have sold out but it wouldn't have been to see the Bills. It would have been to see Peyton Manning.

[OpIv37]

I remember that. The pricing boggled anyone's mind.

Iirc, the intial Toronto average ticket price was higher than the Patriots, who had the highest average ticket price in the NFL at the time (and probably still do).

Did Rogers really think Canadians were going to pay that to see the Bills and the fish or Jets duke it out for the basement of the AFCE?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Then just imagine paying almost 4 times as much for those tickets in Toronto than they are in Buffalo. That was how they were initially priced.

In fact, when the series was first announced, you had to buy the whole series upfront -- 5 regular season games plus 3 pre-season games over 5 years.

It was a disaster.

Couldn't agree more. Such a ****ty idea as far as fan experience and success of the team on the field.

However it was a genious business deal.

[SpikedLemonade]

Iirc, the intial Toronto average ticket price was higher than the Patriots, who had the highest average ticket price in the NFL at the time (and probably still do).

Did Rogers really think Canadians were going to pay that to see the Bills and the fish or Jets duke it out for the basement of the AFCE?

They were focused on the NFL aspect of it.

They didn't appreciate in what disrespect non-Bills fans in Toronto see anything that is from Buffalo.

They would have been better off rotating through different teams like the Cowboys, Steelers, Patriots, etc.

Unfortunately, those teams did not have an owner who was willing to sell a home game and screw his fans.

[OpIv37]

Couldn't agree more. Such a ****ty idea as far as fan experience and success of the team on the field.

However it was a genious business deal.
You just described 95% of what Russ Brandon has done since he's been involved with the Bills.

[SpikedLemonade]

However it was a genious business deal.

For Ralph personally, yes!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yes that is what I meant.

[stuckincincy]

They didn't appreciate in what disrespect non-Bills fans in Toronto see anything that is from Buffalo.



Bunk. I've spent time in TOR before you were born and after. You are attempting to plant a nasty inference, tossing out a blanket assertion that folks in Ontario diss folks in WNY. Or vice versa.

Stop it.

[SpikedLemonade]

Bunk. I've spent time in TOR before you were born and after. You are attempting to plant a nasty inference, tossing out a blanket assertion that folks in Ontario diss folks in WNY. Or vice versa.

Stop it.

You think the City of Buffalo is seen in a positive light by most Torontians?

[stuckincincy]

You think the City of Buffalo is seen in a positive light by most Torontians?

Try a response other than tossing up a classic straw man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man


You said "They didn't appreciate in what disrespect non-Bills fans in Toronto see anything that is from Buffalo."

Tell us about that, give evidence how the BUF organization didn't appreciate that, show us facts that support your contention that the people in the street in Toronto are dripping with disrespect for the City of Buffalo, WNY.

Tell me.

[SpikedLemonade]

Try a response other than tossing up a classic straw man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man


You said "They didn't appreciate in what disrespect non-Bills fans in Toronto see anything that is from Buffalo."

Tell us about that, give evidence how the BUF organization didn't appreciate that, show us facts that support your contention that the people in the street in Toronto are dripping with disrespect for the City of Buffalo, WNY.

Tell me.

I am not sure how I do that other than an anecdotal.

[stuckincincy]

I am not sure how I do that other than an anecdotal.

Exactly. You are a smart fellow and I appreciate your football acumen. Best we all keep it on that basis and not let ancillary musings enter in.

On that, we must agree. Agreed?

[SpikedLemonade]

Exactly. You are a smart fellow and I appreciate your football acumen. Best we all keep it on that basis and not let ancillary musings enter in.

On that, we must agree. Agreed?


I am just telling you that mentioning the Bills evokes laughter -- which I can live with being a Bills fan -- and mentioning downtown Buffalo evokes more laughter.

A lot more than simply a new stadium downtown is needed to make it attractive.

Maybe it is just us Canadians since even in Hamilton I have not seen house after house abandoned. Certainly not in Toronto.

I believe most Canadians coming to Bills games would prefer the stadium not be in downtown Buffalo. They certainly don't plan on staying over night.

[don137]

I am just telling you that mentioning the Bills evokes laughter -- which I can live with being a Bills fan --t.

We get that. 14 years of not making playoffs the Bills brought this on themselves. It's kind of like hockey fans laughing at the Maple Leafs. At least the Bills will have a new owner and a new identity.

[THATHURMANATOR]

You think the City of Buffalo is seen in a positive light by most Torontians?

No I think for the most part they have a very snotty attitude towards Buffalo.

On the other hand most people in Buffalo have great things to say about Toronto. All this Bills stuff aside.

It is a shame really. We just want to be liked.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am just telling you that mentioning the Bills evokes laughter -- which I can live with being a Bills fan -- and mentioning downtown Buffalo evokes more laughter.

A lot more than simply a new stadium downtown is needed to make it attractive.

Maybe it is just us Canadians since even in Hamilton I have not seen house after house abandoned. Certainly not in Toronto.

I believe most Canadians coming to Bills games would prefer the stadium not be in downtown Buffalo. They certainly don't plan on staying over night.

Well to be fair there aren't really any houses downtown so not sure what they are talking about.

Also the "abandoned houses" are located in very poor areas. Certainly not a good thing but what can you do.

Elmwood, Allen, Delaware, and Hertel are littered with beautiful well kept homes. Many of which are large mansions from the early 1900s. Those neighborhoods are awesome.

[stuckincincy]

I am just telling you that mentioning the Bills evokes laughter -- which I can live with being a Bills fan -- and mentioning downtown Buffalo evokes more laughter.

A lot more than simply a new stadium downtown is needed to make it attractive.

Maybe it is just us Canadians since even in Hamilton I have not seen house after house abandoned. Certainly not in Toronto.

I believe most Canadians coming to Bills games would prefer the stadium not be in downtown Buffalo. They certainly don't plan on staying over night.

[SpikedLemonade]

Elmwood, Allen, Delaware, and Hertel are littered with beautiful well kept homes. Many of which are large mansions from the early 1900s. Those neighborhoods are awesome.

I saw those in 2007 when I spent 3 days in the area and they are indeed very beautiful.

[stuckincincy]

[QUOTE=SpikedLemonade;3976013]I a

Maybe it is just us Canadians since even in Hamilton I have not seen house after house abandoned. Certainly not in Toronto.

{QUOTE]

[stuckincincy]

I am just telling you that mentioning the Bills evokes laughter -- which I can live with being a Bills fan -- and mentioning downtown Buffalo evokes more laughter.

A lot more than simply a new stadium downtown is needed to make it attractive.

Maybe it is just us Canadians since even in Hamilton I have not seen house after house abandoned. Certainly not in Toronto.

I believe most Canadians coming to Bills games would prefer the stadium not be in downtown Buffalo. They certainly don't plan on staying over night.

Search and delve into the effects and the reasons why, about the "U.S. "Community Reinvestment Act" that Carter accomplished.

[SpikedLemonade]

Search and delve into the effects and the reasons why, about the "U.S. "Community Reinvestment Act" that Carter accomplished.

Oh, I am not blaming the people of Buffalo for that.

They are the victims.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I wouldnt. I don't care about either of those teams.

But you don't have an NFL team and the NFL comes to your town once a year. I don't know, I'd go see it. I like football.

My assumption is that many of the people in the greater Toronto area could care less about football, just like you. Which is fine, I'm kind of getting sick of it myself.

[stuckincincy]

Oh, I am not blaming the people of Buffalo for that.

They are the victims.

They weren't victims, they jumped in with both feet to buy 5,000+ sq. ft. without putting a Loonie down. All across America. The thing here is to think about the motives of the Congress that passed the legislation and the President that was happy to sign such, that forced the banks under penalty of criminal prosecution to have to lend money to the clearly un-creditworthy. And why. Your Canadian legislature didn't do so.

[better days]

They weren't victims, they jumped in with both feet to buy 5,000+ sq. ft. without putting a Loonie down. All across America. The thing here is to think about the motives of the Congress that passed the legislation and the President that was happy to sign such, that forced the banks under penalty of criminal prosecution to have to lend money to the clearly un-creditworthy. And why. Your Canadian legislature didn't do so.

What are you talking about? If there is a 5000 sq ft house on the East Side or the West Side, it has got to have at least 4 apts in it.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What are you talking about? If there is a 5000 sq ft house on the East Side or the West Side, it has got to have at least 4 apts in it.

Probably true. Although a house on the east side only goes for like 25K.

[better days]

Probably true. Although a house on the east side only goes for like 25K.

Overpriced at that IMO. Those were cheap working class houses when built a couple centuries ago.

But the vast majority of those houses are duplexes or single family homes.

I would bet the average size is under 2000 sq ft.

[Mr. Pink]

Probably true. Although a house on the east side only goes for like 25K.

I wouldn't pay 25 bucks for one of those houses.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I wouldn't pay 25 bucks for one of those houses.

Neither would I. Not a very safe area.

[better days]

Neither would I. Not a very safe area.

After being boarded up & neglected all these years the houses are probably not safe either.

The best thing would be to rip down abandoned houses & create neighborhood parks.

[stuckincincy]

Neither would I. Not a very safe area.

It used to be. As a lad, I'd take a bus down there from N. Bflo, rake and broom and dust pan in hand, to earn some money knocking door to door doing yard work and clean-ups. Nice folks, nice families, nice neighborhoods back then, long before the welfare state destroyed a person's dignity. Heh - I still remember being called to..."Boy! You come here now and get some food in you!" or some such.

Looking back and the way things are now, it was a different galaxy. There's not even an emoticon available on this site's list that expresses longing or fond remembrance. Sad...

[upstart]

As a non Bill fan, I will SAY if Toronto wants the Bills it will happen.

Why not ? The NFL wants to expand to other country's.

[Dr. Lecter]

As a non Bill fan, I will SAY if Toronto wants the Bills it will happen.

Why not ? The NFL wants to expand to other country's.
No, that is not exactly how it works. But nice try

[Dr. Lecter]

And, I am shocked that nobody else said this:

Will Buffalo?