The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

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  • Haile SpikedLemonade
    • Jun 2024

    The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

    For those that don't expect charity from Pegula simply because they were born or raised in Buffalo, I thought it would be worth looking at the economics of purchasing the Bills.

    The Bills are reported to have made $30M last year and it appears they will sell for $1B or more. So that would be a 3% return.

    That $30M does not include $78M/5 years for the Bills series but does include some lessor amount for the Bills game in Toronto last year -- let's say $8M rather than almost $16M per year for the prior 5 years. I believe I read that the Bills did not share this income in the same way that they share non-premium seat ticket revenue for home games in Buffalo.

    On the other hand, the next NFL TV contract is said to increase each team's share by $40M after the player's get their share through an increased salary cap.

    The Bills are currently behind the 4 year average salary minimum floor and that will cost them $5M more in the next two years (2015 and 2016).

    In any event, here are two interesting arguments about the merits of the investment -- one in favour and one not.

    -------------------------------------

    I took this from another message board and was impressed enough that I simple copied and pasted it here. It is not my own work product, but I agree completely with it. The author is someone posting under the user name Finknottle...

    There is an idea out there that would-be owners are already so rich that they are so motivated by joining the club that making money falls by the wayside. I think that is misleading.

    Set aside the question of whether the personal qualities that make you filthy rich (such as good discipline about business decisions) can be turned on and off.

    Think about the relative size of a billion dollars. Even if a would-be owner is worth more than that, a billion dollars is a significant fraction of everything they own. You are asking them to liquidate half or whatever of their financial empire and convert it into a toy. And the great majority of bidders are not billionaires, which is why you generally see ownership groups formed.

    Raising an absurd amount of money takes time and maneuvering, even for the extremely rich, and a typical winner may wind up borrowing money one way or another to finance their bid. And that loan charges them interest. So when you say 'who cares, 3.5% sounds good if you are rich already,' you ignore the fact that after they pay their interest they are making diddly or even losing money. So they need a return at least as big as what they are losing to finance the purchase.

    As to the point that this is risk-free, and that history shows this is the safest investment there is, things always go up until they stop. Railroads, steel, broadcast television, real estate, many industries had half-century periods of growth by the end of which they appeared money-in-the-bank investments. Horse racing was the dominant sport at its height. I'd guess that the major horse tracks showed similar growth until the 50's or so, appearing then to be slam-dunk investments. Didn't last. The bottom line is that there is risk to the NFL - risk that popularity will wane, risk that the internet age will destroy their broadcast revenues, risk that lawsuits, liabilities, and government regulations will undermine the product. Owning an NFL franchise looks reasonably safe, but it certainly no more risk-free than buying an S&P tracking fund for the long haul.


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    On the other hand, Ralph did not have the tax write-off advantage that the new owner will have...

    Buying Buffalo Bills Would Save Donald Trump A Fortune In Taxes

    ...The Bills would go for around $900 million, and tax law established in 2004 allows the buyer to count the majority of the purchase price as an “intangible” asset that can be amortized–deducted from profits–over 15 years. Given their recently improved (from the standpoint of the Bills) stadium lease and the NFL’s collective bargaining agreement, even a small market team like Buffalo is likely to generate at least $200 million in pretax income over the next 15 years.

    Let’s assume that $800 million of the purchase price is amortized over 15 years. Such a large write-off would eliminate the team’s tax bill entirely. Moreover, the remainder ($600 million) of the write-off could be used to shield taxes from the other businesses owned by the team’s investors. Even if Trump were, say, just a 20% owner of the Bills, he would have perhaps $120 million of write-offs to deduct from his profitable businesses, like television and training programs....

    Donald Trump says he has been approached by a group of investors interested in buying the Buffalo Bills from the estate of Ralph Wilson, the NFL team's founder who passed away last week. His reply to the potential buyers: "I will take a look at it." Of course he will. From [...]



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    Thoughts?
  • BillsImpossible
    Registered User
    • Mar 2013
    • 16206

    #2
    Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

    What if the new owner has to shell out another $700 million for a new stadium on top of the more than $1 billion for the team?

    Terry Pegula recently sold land for $1.75 billion.

    Is that just a coincidence how the cost of buying the Bills and building a new stadium almost exactly matches $1.75 billion?

    If Terry Pegula buys the Buffalo Bills with cash, and guarantees the Bills Trust $750 million for the construction of a new stadium in downtown Pegulaville in 2020, I will crap Skittles for a week straight.

    Comment

    • Mace
      Haha...yeah you think so ?
      • Mar 2013
      • 20315

      #3
      Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

      Pegula, for example needs no time and maneuvering, he just made 1.75 billion, and when he did, inferred he has plenty more. He can write a check and would appear to intend to.

      If you consider it an investment, the return comes on sale. Buy it for a billion today, in 10 years it's going to worth, well, a lot more. I don't know of any NFL owner, or really, any major pro sports team owner, who makes their living from their team.

      Luxury or purchases come in all shapes and sizes relative to income. I don't think a Pegula, a Ballmer or Paul Allen, buys a team much concerned about rate of return. A Bon Jovi has to be concerned.

      I hardly think it would be charity if Pegula bought it though compared to his gas wells, owning an NFL team would be a savings account.

      Comment

      • SpikedLemonade
        • Jun 2024

        #4
        Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

        Originally posted by BillsImpossible View Post
        What if the new owner has to shell out another $700 million for a new stadium on top of the more than $1 billion for the team?

        Terry Pegula recently sold land for $1.75 billion.

        Is that just a coincidence how the cost of buying the Bills and building a new stadium almost exactly matches $1.75 billion?

        If Terry Pegula buys the Buffalo Bills with cash, and guarantees the Bills Trust $750 million for the construction of a new stadium in downtown Pegulaville in 2020, I will crap Skittles for a week straight.
        The trust cannot and will not ask for a new stadium in Buffalo guarantee. They can't monitor that. On the other hand, they will not sell to a potential buyer who looks to be in litigation immediately with the state and county over the $400M relocation clause.

        We talk about a $1B stadium, but that is what has been spent on a stadium recently.

        I would not be surprised that in 6 - 8 years during the construction of a new stadium that a stadium will cost closer to $1.2B or more.

        Real estate may be cheap in Buffalo right now, but we are in the midst of a Buffalo Economic Renaissance/Miracle so predictably costs will rise.

        Comment

        • BillsImpossible
          Registered User
          • Mar 2013
          • 16206

          #5
          Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

          Originally posted by Mace View Post
          Pegula, for example needs no time and maneuvering, he just made 1.75 billion, and when he did, inferred he has plenty more. He can write a check and would appear to intend to.

          If you consider it an investment, the return comes on sale. Buy it for a billion today, in 10 years it's going to worth, well, a lot more. I don't know of any NFL owner, or really, any major pro sports team owner, who makes their living from their team.

          Luxury or purchases come in all shapes and sizes relative to income. I don't think a Pegula, a Ballmer or Paul Allen, buys a team much concerned about rate of return. A Bon Jovi has to be concerned.

          I hardly think it would be charity if Pegula bought it though compared to his gas wells, owning an NFL team would be a savings account.
          Awesome post.

          Comment

          • stuckincincy
            Buffalo Bills Fan
            • Sep 2003
            • 15084

            #6
            Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

            Originally posted by SpikedLemonade View Post
            I took this from another message board and was impressed enough that I simple copied and pasted it here. It is not my own work product, but I agree completely with it. The author is someone posting under the user *name Finknottle...


            Thoughts?
            Yes.

            Gussie Fink-Nottle was a beloved character from the pen of P.G. Wodehouse:



            No life can be complete without the laugh-until-your-sides-split enjoyment of having read the works of Wodehouse. BTW. IMO.
            Fiat justitia ruat caelum. Noli timere. Laus Deo.

            Comment

            • SpikedLemonade
              • Jun 2024

              #7
              Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

              Originally posted by Mace View Post
              Pegula, for example needs no time and maneuvering, he just made 1.75 billion, and when he did, inferred he has plenty more. He can write a check and would appear to intend to.

              If you consider it an investment, the return comes on sale. Buy it for a billion today, in 10 years it's going to worth, well, a lot more. I don't know of any NFL owner, or really, any major pro sports team owner, who makes their living from their team.

              Luxury or purchases come in all shapes and sizes relative to income. I don't think a Pegula, a Ballmer or Paul Allen, buys a team much concerned about rate of return. A Bon Jovi has to be concerned.

              I hardly think it would be charity if Pegula bought it though compared to his gas wells, owning an NFL team would be a savings account.
              In Canada, you can only use business losses among related companies for tax purposes.

              If it is the same in the US, I wonder if Bills losses (from the 15 year write-off of most of the purchase price) can be used against an unrelated business like fracking.

              Comment

              • BillsImpossible
                Registered User
                • Mar 2013
                • 16206

                #8
                Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

                A $30 million per year profit can be turned in to a $60 million or more profit with a new stadium.

                A new stadium adds value to the team. The Cowboys are worth so much because of Jerryland, not the Boys.

                A roughly $2 billion total investment in Pegulaland will make the Buffalo Bills worth at least $3 billion in 20 years.

                I don't think Terry Pegula is in this for charity, more like business philanthropy.

                Many people forget how Pegs is a real estate genius. He knows the land, and the business opportunity it holds.

                Buffalo needs a business makeover.

                I hope Terry's wife runs for Mayor of Buffalo.

                Comment

                • SpikedLemonade
                  • Jun 2024

                  #9
                  Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

                  Originally posted by BillsImpossible View Post
                  Many people forget how Pegs is a real estate genius. He knows the land, and the business opportunity it holds.
                  That may be said about Trump.

                  Not Pegula.

                  Pegula got an early start into fracking before the craze. Not urban real estate.

                  By the way, Canada and most of Europe have said no to fracking.

                  His money is his money and I will not diminish it, but you should spend an hour looking into what fracking is.

                  Comment

                  • BillsImpossible
                    Registered User
                    • Mar 2013
                    • 16206

                    #10
                    Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

                    Originally posted by SpikedLemonade View Post
                    In Canada, you can only use business losses among related companies for tax purposes.

                    If it is the same in the US, I wonder if Bills losses (from the 15 year write-off of most of the purchase price) can be used against an unrelated business like fracking.
                    Speaking of fracking, New York has an enormous untapped fracking opportunity.

                    But there's more fricks in NY thank frackers.

                    Comment

                    • BillsImpossible
                      Registered User
                      • Mar 2013
                      • 16206

                      #11
                      Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

                      Originally posted by SpikedLemonade View Post
                      That may be said about Trump.

                      Not Pegula.

                      Pegula got an early start into fracking before the craze. Not urban real estate.

                      By the way, Canada and most of Europe have said no to fracking.

                      His money is his money and I will not diminish it, but you should spend an hour looking into what fracking is.
                      Billieve me, I know what fracking is.

                      Comment

                      • stuckincincy
                        Buffalo Bills Fan
                        • Sep 2003
                        • 15084

                        #12
                        Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

                        Originally posted by BillsImpossible View Post
                        Billieve me, I know what fracking is.

                        http://www.psmag.com/navigation/natu...racking-86897/
                        And all that off-shore oil, East and West coasts. My o my...all that low-sulfur coal made off limits to pay back the Indonesians My o my...
                        Fiat justitia ruat caelum. Noli timere. Laus Deo.

                        Comment

                        • Mace
                          Haha...yeah you think so ?
                          • Mar 2013
                          • 20315

                          #13
                          Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

                          Originally posted by SpikedLemonade View Post
                          In Canada, you can only use business losses among related companies for tax purposes.

                          If it is the same in the US, I wonder if Bills losses (from the 15 year write-off of most of the purchase price) can be used against an unrelated business like fracking.
                          Well, I honestly don't know, but I can't wrap my head around what you mean by Bills losses atm, because they make 30 million a year profit and a 15 year amortization isn't a loss.

                          It all pales though if you just figure it as he spends a billion today and makes billions more from it if they sell in say 10 years. Any possible losses disappear into the bigger numbers.

                          Need someone who knows accounting to answer whether losses can be applied to other businesses, but I want to say losses can only be applied to the overall corporation controlling the businesses. If say, he buys the Bills personally, he can't apply their losses if they have any to PegulaInc gas drilling or whatever, unless PegulaInc owned the team.

                          From what I understand of Pegula for example, his sports businesses are separate from his money makers.

                          Comment

                          • SpikedLemonade
                            • Jun 2024

                            #14
                            Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

                            Originally posted by BillsImpossible View Post
                            Billieve me, I know what fracking is.

                            http://www.psmag.com/navigation/natu...racking-86897/
                            So you are confidant in 50 years it will not leave the same mess that was left by the steel and chemical industry in WNY?

                            Comment

                            • BillsImpossible
                              Registered User
                              • Mar 2013
                              • 16206

                              #15
                              Re: The Merits of a $30M Annual Return on a $1B Investment

                              If Terry Pegula is the next owner of the Buffalo Bills, I think he will have a significant impact on opening the doors to fracking in New York.

                              I hope so.

                              THE NORTHERN TIER, PA. The people trying to keep “fracking” illegal in New York rely on our ignorance about the safety and environmental impact of this drilling technology. So I went over the borde…


                              THE NORTHERN TIER, PA. The people trying to keep “fracking” illegal in New York rely on our ignorance about the safety and environmental impact of this drilling technology. So I went over the border to Pennsylvania for a hands-on education on the subject.

                              Comment

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