How many pass attempts for over 40 yards did have yesterday ??

[Skooby]

I remember a couple of them but every Steelers player was at or near the line most of the night. Doesn't Hackett want to keep our opposing secondaries honest ? Don't we have "speed" ? Where was Goodwin ?

[Yasgur's Farm]

Goodwin has been down with a hammy.

[Skooby]

Goodwin has been down with a hammy.

That explains part of it.

[kishoph]

How many pass attempts for over 40 yards did have yesterday ??

Do you realize that teams do not throw that ball deep as far as some people imagine ? 68.1 % of pass attempts in 2012 were for less than 10 yds. 18.8% of them were behind the line of scrimmage.
Here's some numbers for attempts over 40 yds. for all of last season P. Manning - 1 att., C. Kaepernick - 2 att., T. Brady - 7 att., G. Smith - 3 att., R. Fitzpatrick - 2 att., A. Luck - 9 att., EJ Manuel - 5 att.
Last season 424 of Tom Brady's 628 attempts were less than 10 yds. 93 of them were behind the line of scrimmage and it's not just Tom Brady, it's where QB's throw the ball. Where are people getting this idea that QB's are throwing the ball down field 10 times a game, it's not happening and if you can move the ball throwing 5 yd. passes and dumping the ball off, that's a hell of a lot better than throwing into where most of the coverage is.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/pass-atlas-a-map-of-where-nfl-quarterbacks-throw-the-ball/

[WagonCircler]

How many pass attempts for over 40 yards did have yesterday ??

Do you realize that teams do not throw that ball deep as far as some people imagine ? 68.1 % of pass attempts in 2012 were for less than 10 yds. 18.8% of them were behind the line of scrimmage.
Here's some numbers for attempts over 40 yds. for all of last season P. Manning - 1 att., C. Kaepernick - 2 att., T. Brady - 7 att., G. Smith - 3 att., R. Fitzpatrick - 2 att., A. Luck - 9 att., EJ Manuel - 5 att.
Last season 424 of Tom Brady's 628 attempts were less than 10 yds. 93 of them were behind the line of scrimmage and it's not just Tom Brady, it's where QB's throw the ball. Where are people getting this idea that QB's are throwing the ball down field 10 times a game, it's not happening and if you can move the ball throwing 5 yd. passes and dumping the ball off, that's a hell of a lot better than throwing into where most of the coverage is.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/pass-atlas-a-map-of-where-nfl-quarterbacks-throw-the-ball/

How many TDs has the EJ led Offense accounted for so far this preseason?

[kishoph]

How many TDs has the EJ led Offense accounted for so far this preseason?

":woeisme:" Great rebuttal to that post. LOL

[WagonCircler]

":woeisme:" Great rebuttal to that post. LOL

Facts always are great rebuttals, and EJ has zero.

You can spin away and make whatever delusional case you want to, but the guy sucks. They made a huge deal about how they wanted to scored a TD this week, and they failed. Again.

Trent Jr.

[kishoph]

Facts always are great rebuttals, and EJ has zero.

You can spin away and make whatever delusional case you want to, but the guy sucks. They made a huge deal about how they wanted to scored a TD this week, and they failed. Again.

Trent Jr.

Do you know what "facts" are ? Facts are when you have proof of something and I have numerous post that contain 'facts" unlike you, when the best you can say is, I saw it with my eyes. Maybe if any of you trolls posted some facts, instead of just pulling your finger out of your ass and posting whatever oozes out, people might take you more seriously.

[Skooby]

Fact is we haven't played a real game yet this year, so step away from the edge.

[WagonCircler]

Do you know what "facts" are ? Facts are when you have proof of something and I have numerous post that contain 'facts" unlike you, when the best you can say is, I saw it with my eyes. Maybe if any of you trolls posted some facts, instead of just pulling your finger out of your ass and posting whatever oozes out, people might take you more seriously.

Fact: The Bills, when Quarterbacked by EJ Manuel, have not scored a Touchdown this year.

Fact: When kisoph puts his finger up his ass, it scratches his boyfriend's penis.

[Fletch]

How many pass attempts for over 40 yards did have yesterday ??

Do you realize that teams do not throw that ball deep as far as some people imagine ? 68.1 % of pass attempts in 2012 were for less than 10 yds. 18.8% of them were behind the line of scrimmage.
Here's some numbers for attempts over 40 yds. for all of last season P. Manning - 1 att., C. Kaepernick - 2 att., T. Brady - 7 att., G. Smith - 3 att., R. Fitzpatrick - 2 att., A. Luck - 9 att., EJ Manuel - 5 att.
Last season 424 of Tom Brady's 628 attempts were less than 10 yds. 93 of them were behind the line of scrimmage and it's not just Tom Brady, it's where QB's throw the ball. Where are people getting this idea that QB's are throwing the ball down field 10 times a game, it's not happening and if you can move the ball throwing 5 yd. passes and dumping the ball off, that's a hell of a lot better than throwing into where most of the coverage is.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/pass-atlas-a-map-of-where-nfl-quarterbacks-throw-the-ball/

And yet, everyone here that's optimistic preaches the merits of the deep ball. Graham, Goodwin, Watkins

LOL

[Fletch]

Do you know what "facts" are ? Facts are when you have proof of something and I have numerous post that contain 'facts" unlike you, when the best you can say is, I saw it with my eyes. Maybe if any of you trolls posted some facts, instead of just pulling your finger out of your ass and posting whatever oozes out, people might take you more seriously.

I post facts incessantly and usually your response is to stick your finger straight up your ass and post what oozes out.

You selectively ignore those.

Incredible that you say something like this. LOL

[Fletch]

How many pass attempts for over 40 yards did have yesterday ??

Do you realize that teams do not throw that ball deep as far as some people imagine ? 68.1 % of pass attempts in 2012 were for less than 10 yds. 18.8% of them were behind the line of scrimmage.
Here's some numbers for attempts over 40 yds. for all of last season P. Manning - 1 att., C. Kaepernick - 2 att., T. Brady - 7 att., G. Smith - 3 att., R. Fitzpatrick - 2 att., A. Luck - 9 att., EJ Manuel - 5 att.
Last season 424 of Tom Brady's 628 attempts were less than 10 yds. 93 of them were behind the line of scrimmage and it's not just Tom Brady, it's where QB's throw the ball. Where are people getting this idea that QB's are throwing the ball down field 10 times a game, it's not happening and if you can move the ball throwing 5 yd. passes and dumping the ball off, that's a hell of a lot better than throwing into where most of the coverage is.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/pass-atlas-a-map-of-where-nfl-quarterbacks-throw-the-ball/

Dealing with this seriously;

You're right about the short game being the bread and butter for NFL QBs. What's funny is that while everyone here, posters such as yourself, continually hammer on the contributions of players like Graham, Goodwin, and Watkins' deep ball abilities, and while I've explained for years exactly what you did above and by saying that deep balls really don't make the kind of difference that so many here seem to think that they do, it was met with the typical troll labels and other name calling nonsense.

Now, when it's clear that Manuel struggles with deep balls you sling this out leaving a huge element of disingenuousness here.

Anyway, it was nice of you to pick and choose the things relevant to your argument at the moment, but how about injecting some other relevant facts.

More importanly, I'd really like to see you in your intellect explain the gap that exists given what you wrote.

P. Manning - 8.31 ypa, ranked 3rd,
Kaepernick - 7.69 ypa, ranked 8th
Brady - 6.92, ranked 22nd in one of his worst seasons ever
G. Smith - 6.88, ranked 25th
Fitzpatrick - 7.01, ranked 18th
Luck - 6.71, ranked 26th

Manuel - 6.44, ranked 32nd.

Clearly Manuel doesn't manage a game anywhere close to how Luck does.

This preseason Manuel has a ypa of 5.6 ypa and has been unable to put even one TD on the board.

Those are facts kisoph, you said you like facts. So I'm curious what you can do with these. If you ask me they're quite relevant, a whole lot more relevant than what other QBs of varying skill levels have done or not done.

So I'm curious as to why you seem to think that this doesn't matter or what your stated reason is for Manuel being seemingly unable to produce anything but a bottom-dwelling ypa?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

You don't have to throw the ball 40 yards in the air to have a "deep" passing game. A 40 yard throw requires probably 3+ seconds of clean protection and usually results in your QB getting pasted after he lets go. Most passers won't throw more than one of those a game.

Flacco had 16 all last year.
Kaepernick had 2
Peyton had 1.
Eli had 13.
Wilson had 9.
etc

[Fletch]

What I find interesting in the current discussions about Manuel is that everyone is completely overlooking the asset of his arm strength which everyone felt was so important last season.

It's pretty clear that his inaccuracy and inconsistency are his biggest flaws, but both of those will prevent any QB from developing in the NFL.

Unfortunately both are also not nearly as correctable by coaching.

But it's an interesting point of note that last year when we drafted him no one heeded the warnings and everyone ran down the street proclaiming this great deep game. Now, after the warnings have played out, all there is is questioning of his deep game and whether or not it's the coaching or play calling. He threw at least a couple of deep balls in this last game but was simply inaccurate.

[kishoph]

Dealing with this seriously;

You're right about the short game being the bread and butter for NFL QBs. What's funny is that while everyone here, posters such as yourself, continually hammer on the contributions of players like Graham, Goodwin, and Watkins' deep ball abilities, and while I've explained for years exactly what you did above and by saying that deep balls really don't make the kind of difference that so many here seem to think that they do, it was met with the typical troll labels and other name calling nonsense.

Now, when it's clear that Manuel struggles with deep balls you sling this out leaving a huge element of disingenuousness here.

Anyway, it was nice of you to pick and choose the things relevant to your argument at the moment, but how about injecting some other relevant facts.

More importanly, I'd really like to see you in your intellect explain the gap that exists given what you wrote.

P. Manning - 8.31 ypa, ranked 3rd,
Kaepernick - 7.69 ypa, ranked 8th
Brady - 6.92, ranked 22nd in one of his worst seasons ever
G. Smith - 6.88, ranked 25th
Fitzpatrick - 7.01, ranked 18th
Luck - 6.71, ranked 26th

Manuel - 6.44, ranked 32nd.

Clearly Manuel doesn't manage a game anywhere close to how Luck does.

This preseason Manuel has a ypa of 5.6 ypa and has been unable to put even one TD on the board.

Those are facts kisoph, you said you like facts. So I'm curious what you can do with these. If you ask me they're quite relevant, a whole lot more relevant than what other QBs of varying skill levels have done or not done.

So I'm curious as to why you seem to think that this doesn't matter or what your stated reason is for Manuel being seemingly unable to produce anything but a bottom-dwelling ypa?

First off, I have never "hammered on the contributions of players like Graham, Goodwin, and Watkins' deep ball abilities" because the "deep ball" is over rated and exageratted since the completion rate is so minimal. Next you accuse me of "picking and choosing and put out 3 QB's with 10 years or more of experience and the QB from Manuel's class does have a higher by .44 but is also a turnover machine. I'll take .44 yds. less per attempt than turn it over like Smith does. Then you ask me to explain the "gap", I'm sorry I can't explain such a significant gap between Luck's 6.71 y/a and Manuel's 6.44 y/a. Maybe it's because Luck is known as such a ""gunslinger". Lastly do you really think preseason stats mean anything ?


What I find interesting in the current discussions about Manuel is that everyone is completely overlooking the asset of his arm strength which everyone felt was so important last season.

It's pretty clear that his inaccuracy and inconsistency are his biggest flaws, but both of those will prevent any QB from developing in the NFL.


I'll use some of the QB's you used for this, it's last seasons stats for passes thrown between 21 and 30 yards.

Luck - 6 of 29 for 20.7 comp.% with o TD's and 1 int.
Fitz - 8 of 23 for 34.8 comp.% with1 TD and 2 ints.
Kaepernick - 9 of 33 for a 27.3 comp.% with 2 TD's and 2 ints.
Brady - 9 of 41 for a 22.0 comp.% with 3 TD's and 3 ints.
Manuel - 6 of 19 for a 31.6 comp.% with 3 TD's and 1 int.

I could also go for passes between 11 and 20 yds. where Manuel had a higher comp. % than both Luck and Fitz and the exact same as Brady's only lower than Kaepernick's in that group.
I didn't use Manning because he's in a class by himself and as I said even if Geno Smith's %'s are higher (they are) it's not worth the risk reward of his turnovers.

[Skooby]

I really think that we need to play to EJ's current strength, handing the ball off.

[cookie G]

You don't have to throw the ball 40 yards in the air to have a "deep" passing game. A 40 yard throw requires probably 3+ seconds of clean protection and usually results in your QB getting pasted after he lets go. Most passers won't throw more than one of those a game.

Flacco had 16 all last year.
Kaepernick had 2
Peyton had 1.
Eli had 13.
Wilson had 9.
etc

Agreed for the most part...

I think the real question is..how many pass plays did he have where the ball travelled more than 10 yards from teh LOS Sat. night. I think I counted 3.

[Mr. Pink]

You have to throw the intermediate and deep routes with some accuracy in order to keep other teams honest.

If I was gameplanning against the Manuel led Bills, I'd put 8 in the box every play.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Agreed for the most part...

I think the real question is..how many pass plays did he have where the ball travelled more than 10 yards from teh LOS Sat. night. I think I counted 3.

I'm not defending EJ, he clearly needs to work on his longer throws. But 40 yard throws are a huge outlier.