FYI: Practice squad expanded to 10 players

[stuckincincy]

Good.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24666905/report-nfl-to-increase-practice-squad-size-from-8-to-10-players

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'm not sure why the practice squad is limited at all. I think it should be free to as many players the team is willing to pay, and shouldn't lock players out after they've received game experience. It's not like teams can hide players there, they have to clear waivers and any other team can snatch them at any time.

[bdutton]

I'm not sure why the practice squad is limited at all. I think it should be free to as many players the team is willing to pay, and shouldn't lock players out after they've received game experience. It's not like teams can hide players there, they have to clear waivers and any other team can snatch them at any time.

Is there a limit on how long a person can stay on a practice squad and does the practice squad pay count towards the cap?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Is there a limit on how long a person can stay on a practice squad

Yes


and does the practice squad pay count towards the cap?

Yes, but they are not bound by the minimum salary constraints for guys on the active roster, so a practice squaddie is on a week-to-week deal making 4 to 5 figures typically.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/8/31/4677982/nfl-practice-squad-salary-rules-eligibility

[Ed]

Is there a limit on how long a person can stay on a practice squad and does the practice squad pay count towards the cap?
Only the top 53 count towards the cap. PS players make a minimum of $6,000 per game or NFL week, but teams can pay them more if they want. I believe you're only eligible for 2 years, but I don't remember the details. Once you've been active on the 53-man roster for a certain amount of games, you are no longer eligible.

[Ed]

I'm not sure why the practice squad is limited at all. I think it should be free to as many players the team is willing to pay, and shouldn't lock players out after they've received game experience. It's not like teams can hide players there, they have to clear waivers and any other team can snatch them at any time.
That would mean billionaire "job creators" would have to create more jobs.

[The Jokeman]

I'm not sure why the practice squad is limited at all. I think it should be free to as many players the team is willing to pay, and shouldn't lock players out after they've received game experience. It's not like teams can hide players there, they have to clear waivers and any other team can snatch them at any time.

Probably because teams with big pockets could afford to pay more guys on their practice squads and would hurt teams like the Bills. It's also locks players out after so many NFL games played because it also avoids team from stockpiling talent etc. Case in point nobody has signed Jermichael Finley because of his injury but if he was practice squad eligible you bet some team would give him tons of money and keep him around to twiddle on the practice squad until he shows he's healthy again or if he shows he will never return they could just cut him. As players can chose to stay on a team's practice squad if another team tries to sign to their active roster as was the case of one of the WR we have now but the kid's name escapes me.

[better days]

IMO, it would be better to expand the regular roster by about 6 players.

[The Jokeman]

IMO, it would be better to expand the regular roster by about 6 players.

That is the one thing I really don't understand as to why teams can't dress a full 53 man roster on game day.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Probably because teams with big pockets could afford to pay more guys on their practice squads and would hurt teams like the Bills.

They would still be unable to bring more than 53 guys onto the field each game, and it could also benefit the Bills as we would be able to develop players for a longer period of time or take chances on guys from the CFL.


It's also locks players out after so many NFL games played because it also avoids team from stockpiling talent etc. Case in point nobody has signed Jermichael Finley because of his injury but if he was practice squad eligible you bet some team would give him tons of money and keep him around to twiddle on the practice squad until he shows he's healthy again or if he shows he will never return they could just cut him.

Your example shows exactly why the practice squad should be expanded. As it stands now, Finley is unsigned because no team is willing to risk a valuable roster spot on him due to his injury. He's already missed TC and might miss the entire year, if that's the case then he's probably out of football entirely. Who wins in that scenario? Finley's career is over, no team gets the benefit of his play, and the league loses a talented player. In your scenario he might make a comeback, and a savvy team gets a good player for relatively cheap.


As players can chose to stay on a team's practice squad if another team tries to sign to their active roster as was the case of one of the WR we have now but the kid's name escapes me.

So what if some doofus player would rather stay on a week-to-week non-guaranteed deal rather than be signed to a real roster? How common would that be and why should it affect the rules?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

That is the one thing I really don't understand as to why teams can't dress a full 53 man roster on game day.

Well that does have some justification. Without only very limited options for temporary IR, it means that if one team has say 5 injured guys compared to 0, then the other team has a huge advantage because they can dress 5 extra players. By limiting it to 45 dressed players, that generally prevents that from happening.

[The Jokeman]

They would still be unable to bring more than 53 guys onto the field each game, and it could also benefit the Bills as we would be able to develop players for a longer period of time or take chances on guys from the CFL.



Your example shows exactly why the practice squad should be expanded. As it stands now, Finley is unsigned because no team is willing to risk a valuable roster spot on him due to his injury. He's already missed TC and might miss the entire year, if that's the case then he's probably out of football entirely. Who wins in that scenario? Finley's career is over, no team gets the benefit of his play, and the league loses a talented player. In your scenario he might make a comeback, and a savvy team gets a good player for relatively cheap.



So what if some doofus player would rather stay on a week-to-week non-guaranteed deal rather than be signed to a real roster? How common would that be and why should it affect the rules?

In terms of Finley, I'm shocked no one signed him and put him on PUP and/or IR designated to return but with his insurance claim that he could make $10 million for missing the season I think that answers more to why he wasn't signed.

I'm sure some owner (see Jerry Jones) would abuse that practice squad if it wasn't limited. As he's got deep pockets and am sure he'd sign some kid to his practice squad to some absurd contract to keep him there since there is no max or limit as to what a team can sign a PS player too and of course said players don't count against the cap.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Funny how that season ended for the Packers then, with a barrage of dropped passes.

[The Jokeman]

Funny how that season ended for the Packers then, with a barrage of dropped passes.

ironies of ironies the doofus type kid you referred to chose to stay on Packers PS instead of going with the Vikings. It was Tori Gurley but this was 3 years ago:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/15/tori-gurley-chooses-packers-practice-squad-over-vikings-active-roster/

[swiper]

IMO, it would be better to expand the regular roster by about 6 players.

Didn't they have bigger rosters in the past?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'm sure some owner (see Jerry Jones) would abuse that practice squad if it wasn't limited. As he's got deep pockets and am sure he'd sign some kid to his practice squad to some absurd contract to keep him there since there is no max or limit as to what a team can sign a PS player too and of course said players don't count against the cap.

The link I posted says they do count against the cap. Here's another one that says the same thing: http://www.spotrac.com/terms/nfl/how-are-practice-squad-players-paid-361/

And Jerry Jones is rich but not stupid. If the kid is worth paying absurd money to, then Jones will sign him to the roster, not leave him hanging around on the PS where he could be poached away.


ironies of ironies the doofus type kid you referred to chose to stay on Packers PS instead of going with the Vikings. It was Tori Gurley but this was 3 years ago:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/15/tori-gurley-chooses-packers-practice-squad-over-vikings-active-roster/

Weird, I saw you post that link and responded to it but the post is gone now.

[The Jokeman]

The link I posted says they do count against the cap. Here's another one that says the same thing: http://www.spotrac.com/terms/nfl/how-are-practice-squad-players-paid-361/

And Jerry Jones is rich but not stupid. If the kid is worth paying absurd money to, then Jones will sign him to the roster, not leave him hanging around on the PS where he could be poached away.



Weird, I saw you post that link and responded to it but the post is gone now.

If Jones gave a kid on the practice squad enough money he couldn't get poached away is what I'm getting at. Ironically now that I think about it but the Broncos think offered Tony Romo more money to be part of their practice squad but he chose Dallas as he thought he'd have a better chance at playing so it's possible some players can't be swayed by money alone but think some could. That said the NFL makes rules to best serve the league and rarely players and that's why I don't think they have any kind or DL rule like baseball which to me be ideal but am sure they don't want to be sued for collusion by the NFLPA or some team crying that another team is stockpiling talent on rosters by claiming guys are injured when their not etc.

[The Jokeman]

The link I posted says they do count against the cap. Here's another one that says the same thing: http://www.spotrac.com/terms/nfl/how-are-practice-squad-players-paid-361/

And Jerry Jones is rich but not stupid. If the kid is worth paying absurd money to, then Jones will sign him to the roster, not leave him hanging around on the PS where he could be poached away.



Weird, I saw you post that link and responded to it but the post is gone now.

I stand corrected, I guess they do count against the cap. I must have misread the article I saw about the topic.

[DraftBoy]

Interesting...

10 player practice squads mean an additional 320 players in the league over the 53...or just over halfway to a 10 team minor league developmental system.

[YardRat]

I'm not sure why the practice squad is limited at all. I think it should be free to as many players the team is willing to pay, and shouldn't lock players out after they've received game experience. It's not like teams can hide players there, they have to clear waivers and any other team can snatch them at any time.

Do you also feel regular rosters shouldn't be limited at all, and a team should be able to keep as many as they are willing to pay?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Do you also feel regular rosters shouldn't be limited at all, and a team should be able to keep as many as they are willing to pay?

No

[stuckincincy]

Probably because teams with big pockets could afford to pay more guys on their practice squads and would hurt teams like the Bills. It's also locks players out after so many NFL games played because it also avoids team from stockpiling talent etc. Case in point nobody has signed Jermichael Finley because of his injury but if he was practice squad eligible you bet some team would give him tons of money and keep him around to twiddle on the practice squad until he shows he's healthy again or if he shows he will never return they could just cut him. As players can chose to stay on a team's practice squad if another team tries to sign to their active roster as was the case of one of the WR we have now but the kid's name escapes me.

You could sign him and keep him on IR. Such has been done for compassionate reasons - CIN owner Brown kept DL David Pollack and RB Kenny Irons on IR until they qualified for an NFL pension.

[stuckincincy]

FYI...some further info on the new ps eligibility rules:

..."In addition to the extra two players, they changed the rules of how much experience those two players can have to be eligible for the squad. The new rule states the extra two players can have up to 32 games on an active roster over their first two seasons and still be eligible for the practice squad. So, basically any 2012 or 2013 rookies are now eligible to fill those two additional practice squad positions.
The other eight players on the practice squad will still be under the old eligibility rule which allows for no more than eight games on an active NFL roster.
Another new rule in place says if a player spends less than six games of the season on a team's practice squad, it doesn't count against their total practice squad seasons. This is key because players are only allowed three full seasons of practice squad eligibility."

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2014/8/19/6046301/nfl-practice-squads-raised-to-ten-players-new-eligibility-rules