I guess someone needs to start it.

[Mace]

I know it's preseason, and this is practice game angst, but I am not feeling encouraged about this team.

QB situation looks alarming, next years draft compromised for insta win I don't see, offensive line looks worse, giving Glenn a flyer for his missed time, defense looks worse (to me, if a bit better against the run atm), Whaley gets negatives for trading the pick on a receiver who might not have anyone to sling at him, which reminds me of the Spiller pick of a great talent if you have anyone to use it, hiring a poor QB coach and not signing a vet looks worse than not hiring a QB coach and having a fragile vet, they look undisciplined and underschooled after a real long camp. Branch was fine with Pettine, who we don't have, and another neg to Whaley for resigning the loafing defensive misfit. Moeaki was an airball tight end who proved to be Moeaki, and good guy Marrone from last year has become profanity enraged guy this year, indicating at least to me, he's lost at how to get everyone on the same page.

Plus side, Hughes looks like not a mistake, Seantrel Henderson looks like a late round steal, Dan Carpenter looks sharp, Moorman still looks like an NFL punter if not a great one, Fred Jackson is still here, and Marrone has gone from good guy last year to being profanity enraged guy this year, indicating he's flexible.

I know it's preseason and this is preseason angst but I'm not feeling encouraged. Not gonna argue, but is anyone ?

[DynaPaul]

No... not really. Especially with the QB play. You know, the light isn't magically going to go on for EJ come the first game of the season. These pre-season games are just giving us a glimpse of what we're going to see ALL season long. Like I said, if there's no improvement from him by the end of the season it's seriously doubtful that he'll develop.

[Skooby]

No... not really. Especially with the QB play. You know, the light isn't magically going to go on for EJ come the first game of the season. These pre-season games are just giving us a glimpse of what we're going to see ALL season long. Like I said, if there's no improvement from him by the end of the season it's seriously doubtful that he'll develop.

It's pretty hard to swallow but boy was the whole offense disorganized.

[Turf]

This is what happens when a rookie head coach hires a rook offensive coordinator.

[Mace]

This is what happens when a rookie head coach hires a rook offensive coordinator.

...without a qb coach or a mentoring vet for the rook QB, and then a bad one and none.....

[Mr. Pink]

...without a qb coach or a mentoring vet for the rook QB, and then a bad one and none.....

I really believe that Kolb would have had the job last year for as long as he stayed healthy. Unfortunately in true Kevin Kolb fashion he spiked himself. I can't really fault the team for going with him as they probably figured they'd get about a half of a year of him behind center while EJ was being groomed and then got into some game action.

What I can fault the team for is nothing was done this past offseason to address the QB situation. A situation where I still think the best of the three is Thad Lewis I might add, but it's more than evident that none of the three are good enough.

Even if you're going Manuel or bust, he's still a good that so far has shown to be injury prone so you need some kind of contingency plan for if/when he goes down to play respectable football games and try to remain in the hunt.

We can run the ball which has been proven for a few years now and we'd be able to run the ball even more effectively if there was a QB who keep defenses honest. The OL while not the best in the league is somewhere in the middle of pack, which is plenty good enough. And, on paper, the wide receiver corps should be plenty good enough along with Chandler who has shown to be a nice safety valve sure he's no Jimmy Graham, Jordan Cameron or Rob Gronkowski but not many are.

Defensively, I think the loss of Byrd is gonna show. The corners don't appear to be good enough to play out on islands which certainly has been what Schwartz has been trying to do with them. The pass rush doesn't look as solid as last year but a change in scheme will do that. However against the run the first teamers have looked stout. But as was pointed out in another thread, it looks like the scheme/calls are to crash down on the LOS. This might prove to be a detriment against teams with quicker running backs who can bounce it outside and get around the end. We shall see.

I think against better passing teams this team will have difficulty stopping them and won't be good enough offensively to score enough points to stay in those games. Against rush heavy teams, we'll be in slugfests. In a pass heavy NFL that leads to another sub .500 record and top 10 pick we no longer have.

[Fletch]

Marrone's in over his head. Branch now arrested. Marrone has no control over the players. Not sure he ever did. He sure doesn't know what he's doing as a coach.

Interesting to see all the "trolls" emerging all of a sudden though. Kinda soon.

[directFX]

I think the most telling thing about this thread is the Moorman statement.... Lol.

Even Bills alum Tasker and Bentley admitted he was not punting well at all.

Conjecture. All of it.

[Fletch]

I think the most telling thing about this thread is the Moorman statement.... Lol.

Even Bills alum Tasker and Bentley admitted he was not punting well at all.

Conjecture. All of it.

Conjecture?

I think that there's plenty of evidence that Marrone is in well over his head and that Manuel is never going to amount to much.

Hackett stinks. Whaley doesn't know what he's doing either, there's plenty of evidence to at least throw it out there reasonably.

I'll tell ya what's conjecture, that this team has a shot at a winning record, that's conjecture.

[Downinfloflo]

E.J Manuel still looks like a frightened rookie, The guy has not taken a single step forward.

[RedEyE]

Yeah EJ was sub par at best, but the penalties and the receivers dropping to the ground mid route sure didn't help things. Spiller still looks exactly as he did last year.

3rd and 35?!!?? ****ing pathetic. The entire offense should be running high school grass drills until 2 in the morning.

[Mace]

I think the most telling thing about this thread is the Moorman statement.... Lol.

Even Bills alum Tasker and Bentley admitted he was not punting well at all.

Not sure what you missed that I said, he looked like an NFL punter not a great one. It's probably telling that you focused on quibbling about punting. Any issues finding more telling things for hopeful ? Well you can't can you, so you get stuck on a sentence about punting. It's telling.

[coastal]

Put it this way... the best defensive player in the last two years who is going to play this year is Leodis McKelvin.

nuff said.

[Typ0]

The only reason for the status of our QB situation is this organization is not serious about winning...but we knew that didn't we?

[swiper]

I'm not going to comment about the QB play, because everyone here knows how I feel. Manuel just goes out again every week and proves me right. But what seems interesting was the change in play calling between two halves. Even Steve Tasker said before half that the "Bills seemed to be using the same 4 plays over and over and it seems like the Buccaneers have figured them out."

But in the second half, Hackett seemed to open it up... with some of those Manuel pass completions in the first two drives. And with the plays called after that. I know the Bucs were using second stringers at that point, but it let Manuel get rolling a little. Didn't Hackett get criticized about this last preseason as well?

[YardRat]

I'm not worried about the defense, at all. We aren't going to miss Byrd, the dline looks dominant top-to-bottom with tons of depth (although I think guys like Bryant and Cohen are going to find the regular season quite different than preseason), our corners will be fine when the starters are actually playing 60 minutes, and I actually like the make-up of our LBers, even without Kiko.

The offense? That's another story. This team has three major issues, maybe 2-1/2, on that side of the ball, and all are killers. We're OK at the skill positions, solid at WR and RB, a little thin at TE.

Quarterback-EJ just hasn't progressed enough. It isn't unfair to expect at this point some flashes of skill and consistency, but other than the two scoring drives in the second half he hasn't really done that yet, and he should have been able to show those flashes at least a couple of times against first stringers. EJ will never be Manning-Brady-Brees, but he at least has to show he can be Eli-Flacco-Ryan on a good day. Maybe the play-calling has held him back a bit, but still...

Offensive line-Very little talent, no continuity, no clue who is going to start where and when, other than Wood and maybe Glenn. That's not good for expected performance when the games are real. Just a side note, anybody that thinks Levitre would be making any kind of difference at this point is fooling themselves. We're probably set at tackle if Henderson can stay on course, but the interior line, all three positions, are a mess. Somebody needs to step up at guard, and Wood is Levitre-Lite at the center position.

Offensive coordinator...This is the maybe one-half problem part. Hackett certainly hasn't done anything yet to indicate he's progressed as OC any more than Manuel as QB up to now, but maybe the scoring drives were an indication that they really were holding back on the playbook quite a bit for these games. IMO Marrone told him '**** it...pull out some plays we've been stashing, this team needs to get into the end zone.' I'm betting that little TE quick-pitch was one they hated to use in preseason, but were getting desperate to score points.

[Goobylal]

All I can say is that it was pre-season, they're not showing their real stuff, and no one got injured. But EJ isn't even close to the major problem with the offense.

[gebobs]

Moorman still looks like an NFL punter if not a great one
38 yd/punt sucks is good for high school maybe.

[gebobs]

But EJ isn't even close to the major problem with the offense.

Yes he is. The offense sucks, but everything hinges on the QB. Manuel blows.

[Novacane]

Why haven't they even let Dombrowski punt in a game? Anyone know how the guy has looked in practice? I'm hoping he's been good enough that they know they are keeping him and showcasing Moorman so maybe someone else will pick him up when he gets cut. Moorman was awful.

[Goobylal]

Yes he is. The offense sucks, but everything hinges on the QB. Manuel blows.
Because he's responsible for: bad play calling, lack of a running game, poor protection, and players slipping, fumbling, and committing penalties? I won't say he played well, but who did? Who helped him out? No one.

[Goobylal]

And the biggest problems with this team appear to be Marrone and Hackett.

[gebobs]

Because he's responsible for: bad play calling, lack of a running game, poor protection, and players slipping, fumbling, and committing penalties? I won't say he played well, but who did? Who helped him out? No one.
I didn't say he was the only problem. I disagreed with your statement that he wasn't the major problem.

Bad play calling? That's certainly largely because the Bills are trying to find a few plays he can run with any consistency. It's not working.

[TacklingDummy]

I blame the execution of the play that was called more than I blame the play that was called.

The offense hinges on the QB position. A good/great QB makes the players around them better.

A bad QB makes the players around him look worse.

[Goobylal]

I blame the execution of the play that was called more than I blame the play that was called.

The offense hinges on the QB position. A good/great QB makes the players around them better.

A bad QB makes the players around him look worse.
Look at Brady and Manning, well into their careers, when they had little help from their teammates, like in the SB's they lost. A QB can only do so much.

[better days]

I didn't say he was the only problem. I disagreed with your statement that he wasn't the major problem.

Bad play calling? That's certainly largely because the Bills are trying to find a few plays he can run with any consistency. It's not working.

EJ said that Hackett was saving plays for Chicago.

Let's hope that is the case. But this preseason the playcalling has been putrid, vanilla & predictable.

[better days]

I blame the execution of the play that was called more than I blame the play that was called.

The offense hinges on the QB position. A good/great QB makes the players around them better.

A bad QB makes the players around him look worse.

And an average/mediocre QB needs all the help he can get.

EJ is not going to put this team on his shoulders & deliver wins.

If the Bills are to win, it will take a team effort.

If everyone around him plays well, EJ should be able to win more often than he loses.

[The Jokeman]

I blame the execution of the play that was called more than I blame the play that was called.

The offense hinges on the QB position. A good/great QB makes the players around them better.

A bad QB makes the players around him look worse.

and to solely blame a QB for the execution is wrong. I mean the Chandler slip lead to the Manuel INT. The penalty that nullified Spiller's long run that looked like was going to offset another penalty killed another drive. Sure EJ was bad at times but it's not all on him. Toss in Moorman wasn't helping the D early on with short punts. This team isn't talented enough that it can count on one group to carry the team but if they play together can be playoff caliber if ask me. I might sound like a homer but I have faith in what this team is doing and it's been a really long time since I can say I had it.

[better days]

and to solely blame a QB for the execution is wrong. I mean the Chandler slip lead to the Manuel INT. The penalty that nullified Spiller's long run that looked like was going to offset another penalty killed another drive. Sure EJ was bad at times but it's not all on him. Toss in Moorman wasn't helping the D early on with short punts. This team isn't talented enough that it can count on one group to carry the team but if they play together can be playoff caliber if ask me. I might sound like a homer but I have faith in what this team is doing and it's been a really long time since I can say I had it.

And penalties on the Bills defense kept drives alive for the Bucs.

[JoeMama]

I know it's preseason, and this is practice game angst, but I am not feeling encouraged about this team.

QB situation looks alarming, next years draft compromised for insta win I don't see, offensive line looks worse, giving Glenn a flyer for his missed time, defense looks worse (to me, if a bit better against the run atm), Whaley gets negatives for trading the pick on a receiver who might not have anyone to sling at him, which reminds me of the Spiller pick of a great talent if you have anyone to use it, hiring a poor QB coach and not signing a vet looks worse than not hiring a QB coach and having a fragile vet, they look undisciplined and underschooled after a real long camp. Branch was fine with Pettine, who we don't have, and another neg to Whaley for resigning the loafing defensive misfit. Moeaki was an airball tight end who proved to be Moeaki, and good guy Marrone from last year has become profanity enraged guy this year, indicating at least to me, he's lost at how to get everyone on the same page.

Plus side, Hughes looks like not a mistake, Seantrel Henderson looks like a late round steal, Dan Carpenter looks sharp, Moorman still looks like an NFL punter if not a great one, Fred Jackson is still here, and Marrone has gone from good guy last year to being profanity enraged guy this year, indicating he's flexible.

I know it's preseason and this is preseason angst but I'm not feeling encouraged. Not gonna argue, but is anyone ?

Agreed for the most part.

My mother sent me a text this morning that simply read:


The Bills :(

I responded by saying I wish my phone had a barfing face emoticon. A frowny face doesn't do this team justice.

If there's one thing this franchise is good at, it's sucking the joy out of living.

[Raptor]

It was ugly there is no way around it....they put all their eggs in one basket with EJ when they should have pursued a vet back up to at least give this team a chance if the bottom falls out....EJ is a problem

[Mr. Pink]

EJ said that Hackett was saving plays for Chicago.

Let's hope that is the case. But this preseason the playcalling has been putrid, vanilla & predictable.

That's awesome that the craptastic QB can't even execute vanilla plays. What do you think will happen when the real playbook goes in? He's somehow gonna be able to execute?

Is he sandbagging to make opponents overconfident?

[cookie G]

But in the second half, Hackett seemed to open it up... with some of those Manuel pass completions in the first two drives. And with the plays called after that. I know the Bucs were using second stringers at that point, but it let Manuel get rolling a little. Didn't Hackett get criticized about this last preseason as well?

Did he "open it up" or did someone have a chat with Manuel at halftime?

Just about every play you call is going to have a check down receiver. But when your QB is immediately going to the checkdown...these plays tend to look alike. In the second half, they still ran a screen or two when he was in there...but the difference was...he actually did more than a token glance at the intermediate and deep routes.

[GvilleBills]

Did he "open it up" or did someone have a chat with Manuel at halftime?

Just about every play you call is going to have a check down receiver. But when your QB is immediately going to the checkdown...these plays tend to look alike. In the second half, they still ran a screen or two when he was in there...but the difference was...he actually did more than a token glance at the intermediate and deep routes.

"Grow a set, or you can be the first of the New Jill's!"

[Mace]

I blame the execution of the play that was called more than I blame the play that was called.

The offense hinges on the QB position. A good/great QB makes the players around them better.

A bad QB makes the players around him look worse.

Sort of yes. But by the same token, a good coordinator doesn't keep calling plays for players that can't make them work, he works plays to the capabilities of his players.

By the same token though, I have to say again, I don't think there's any way to know what the plays are supposed to be, because as Cookie pointed out, they tend to become fast checkdowns.

That makes a mild positive though, if they're trying to break Manuel of automatic checkdowns during preseason games and roughing him up with the tape.

2nd half against 2nd stringers. If t made him confident in the plays or he learned something, I'm all for it. We'll find out against Detroit. Not sure Marrone is risking much working the starters longer than usual and think he may have said he intends to.