Players and Staffers told Marrone EJ wasn't good enough

[Ginger Vitis]

Matthew Kollar(WGR550) mentioned this morning on WGR that Jason Cole made this claim and sure enough here is the Jason Cole tweet.. If someone has posted this information in another thread I apologize if not I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet. Kollar claims Jason Cole use to work for Yahoo. I don't have a clue how often this happens players telling there HC at the end of a season the Starting QB blows but staffers? The janitor? The secretary? Nate Hackett? Jim Monos?

https://twitter.com/JasonPhilCole/status/503281788920553472

[better days]

Matthew Kollar(WGR550) mentioned this morning on WGR that Jason Cole made this claim and sure enough here is the Jason Cole tweet.. If someone has posted this information in another thread I apologize if not I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet. Kollar claims Jason Cole use to work for Yahoo. I don't have a clue how often this happens players telling there HC at the end of a season the Starting QB blows but staffers? The janitor? The secretary? Nate Hackett? Jim Monos?

https://twitter.com/JasonPhilCole/status/503281788920553472

And Kollar also said it was likely players complained in the same manor about Eli Manning before he won TWO Super Bowls.

[Ginger Vitis]

And Kollar also said it was likely players complained in the same manor about Eli Manning before he won TWO Super Bowls.


Tiki Barber called Mannings pregame speeches or in the huddle speeches "comical" and Michael Strahan has implied Manning was lacking in leadership ability before the SuperBowls were won..I doubt EJ will be here long enough to prove people wrong like Manning did

[better days]

Tiki Barber called Mannings pregame speeches or in the huddle speeches "comical" and Michael Strahan has implied Manning was lacking in leadership ability before the SuperBowls were won..I doubt EJ will be here long enough to prove people wrong like Manning did

Warren Sapp thinks Michael Strahan is a douchebag.

[ServoBillieves]

Did Doug tell the media this? Did someone overhear all these conversations? Was it not common enough sense? Who is this jag pretending he has inside information? Why is a Dolphins writer/fan who's only work seems to be speculation news? IS IT SUNDAY YET?!

[BillsOverDolphins]

I'm sure common sense told Marrone EJ wasn't good enough. I mean, that's how I found out...

[YardRat]

lol...next Sunday can't get here quick enough

[Mr. Pink]

lol...next Sunday can't get here quick enough

Think it's bad now, wait til next week when EJ looks just like he did in preseason.

[sudzy]

If this is true it's all on Marrone.

[Night Train]

He has Nix/Whaley to blame for that.

Marrone was saddled with the guy and I'm betting the Orton signing was demanded by him... and may explain that recent blow up at practice after another suspect Manuel showing, with no good backup options at that moment.

The hook on Manuel may be quick, I'm guessing.

[ServoBillieves]

He has Nix/Whaley to blame for that.

Marrone was saddled with the guy and I'm betting the Orton signing was demanded by him... and may explain that recent blow up at practice after another suspect Manuel showing, with no good backup options at that moment.

The hook on Manuel may be quick, I'm guessing.

The most FRUSTRATING aspect of this is that the hook can't be quick. EJ is the only one who knows the playbook well, he's the only one with "chemistry" with the receivers, putting Orton in does NOTHING week 1 or 2 to help this team win. Having 0 quarterbacks on the roster who had an entire summer/offseason to get the playbook to back up EJ is entirely the FO's fault. The first few games and season hinge on EJ, and... oh man, it'll be interesting to watch.

[Night Train]

The most FRUSTRATING aspect of this is that the hook can't be quick. EJ is the only one who knows the playbook well, he's the only one with "chemistry" with the receivers, putting Orton in does NOTHING week 1 or 2 to help this team win. Having 0 quarterbacks on the roster who had an entire summer/offseason to get the playbook to back up EJ is entirely the FO's fault. The first few games and season hinge on EJ, and... oh man, it'll be interesting to watch.

I see the Bills running the ball heavily early on, if they do doubt Manuel. I have no problem with that but Hackett seems a bit too pass happy...yet you have to have a QB who can make the throws he desires.

If Manuel is limited in the plays he can actual succeed in, then Orton won't need much time to catch up and he won't hesitate to stick the ball in tight windows.

Not endorsing a quick hook but Marrone has his job on the line and won't hang his career on Manuel.

[JoeMama]

EJ had some impressive moments last season.

He was effective in a close loss in the opener vs NE.

He was calm, poised, and clutch in the win against Carolina in Week 2.

He was effective in the loss to ATL (and then Chandler fumbled the game away).

He was very good against JAX, as well he should've been.

The PIT and TB games were his lowest moments, and man, they were ugly.

The rest of his starts were so-so.

But whatever, EJ will get a fair shake to open the season. Hopefully he does well. If not, hopefully Orton has a grasp on the playbook and can salvage what's left of the season if EJ gets benched.

[Typ0]

The most FRUSTRATING aspect of this is that the hook can't be quick. EJ is the only one who knows the playbook well, he's the only one with "chemistry" with the receivers, putting Orton in does NOTHING week 1 or 2 to help this team win. Having 0 quarterbacks on the roster who had an entire summer/offseason to get the playbook to back up EJ is entirely the FO's fault. The first few games and season hinge on EJ, and... oh man, it'll be interesting to watch.

I have no idea what you are watching to see this so called chemistry. Another guy could come in one day have more chemistry ...

[ServoBillieves]

I have no idea what you are watching to see this so called chemistry. Another guy could come in one day have more chemistry ...

Didn't notice the word chemistry in quotation marks did you?

[DynaPaul]

I still think we'll have to wait for a phantom injury.

[ICRockets]

Can somebody explain to me all the EJ Hatred? I'm not talking about the people who doubt his ability to be our guy, I'm talking about the ones who are literally incapable of saying a nice, or even neutral, word about him. What is it about EJ Manuel that makes you people hate him as a human being? Do you even recognize that that's what is happening? Can we tone it down, maybe? He seems like a genuinely decent person and the type of guy who should be easy to root for.

[OpIv37]

Can somebody explain to me all the EJ Hatred? I'm not talking about the people who doubt his ability to be our guy, I'm talking about the ones who are literally incapable of saying a nice, or even neutral, word about him. What is it about EJ Manuel that makes you people hate him as a human being? Do you even recognize that that's what is happening? Can we tone it down, maybe? He seems like a genuinely decent person and the type of guy who should be easy to root for.

You're confusing frustration with hatred.

My wife and I met Bledsoe after a game in Baltimore and JP Losman before a game in Buffalo. Both were extremely nice and seemed like the kind of guy I'd want on my team. But they still didn't get the job done on the field.

[Novacane]

You're confusing frustration with hatred.

My wife and I met Bledsoe after a game in Baltimore and JP Losman before a game in Buffalo. Both were extremely nice and seemed like the kind of guy I'd want on my team. But they still didn't get the job done on the field.


For a couple of posters here it sure comes across as hatred. Not you btw

[BillsOverDolphins]

I hate the fact he's on my team

[Ginger Vitis]

For a couple of posters here it sure comes across as hatred. Not you btw

One poster should have his sig line removed in regards to EJ.. Over the top offensive

[BillsOverDolphins]

One poster should have his sig line removed in regards to EJ.. Over the top offensive

Fixed.

[Mr. Pink]

For a couple of posters here it sure comes across as hatred. Not you btw

I hate the fact that he somehow one upped JP Losman in terms of ineptitude.

That's no easy feat.

[Mike]

And Kollar also said it was likely players complained in the same manor about Eli Manning before he won TWO Super Bowls.

Better Days... your one for missing the bigger picture. There is a huge difference between those Giants teams and this Bills team, between Eli as a prospect and EJ as a prospect! Big Differences!

For one, the Giants were CONTENDERS with a number of aging HOF Vets who wanted to win a SB and felt that Collins gave them their biggest opportunity given that he had taken them to the Superbowl a few years before! So, its understandable why a few vets would prefer the guy who took them to the dance over the guy who was just drafted!

And as prospects, these two guys could not be more different! Eli was first pick in the draft and widely considered the best QB and player and the CONSENSUS #1 Overall Pick...IN ONE OF THE BEST QB DRAFTS EVER!!!

EJ on the other hand, was considered a Developmental Project who was projected to be 3-5th round pick in one of the WORST QB DRAFTS! And he is coming on a team that has not stiffed the playoffs in 15years, to vets who want any ray of light and hope.... and he brings NONE!
He is as far from Eli as you can get...

[Homegrown]

For one, the Giants were CONTENDERS with a number of aging HOF Vets who wanted to win a SB and felt that Collins gave them their biggest opportunity given that he had taken them to the Superbowl a few years before! .

Your storyline is a little off.
The 2003 Giants finished 4-12, including losing their last 8 games. Not so much a contenter…their QB (Collins) play was horrible.
In 2004 the Giants drafted Eli Manning.
Manning & Collins NEVER played on the same team …Collins was gone after the 2003 season. Kurt Warner was the other Giant QB in 2004.

[BertSquirtgum]

And Kollar also said it was likely players complained in the same manor about Eli Manning before he won TWO Super Bowls.

Can you please get your head out of EJs ass? I mean you stick up for the guy like he is your son or something. He might turn it around but he probably won't. Your constant rescuing of his reputation in threads is sickening.

[BertSquirtgum]

You're confusing frustration with hatred.

My wife and I met Bledsoe after a game in Baltimore and JP Losman before a game in Buffalo. Both were extremely nice and seemed like the kind of guy I'd want on my team. But they still didn't get the job done on the field.

No he isn't.... and if you don't think so then you're not reading the same posts as I am.

[ICRockets]

You're confusing frustration with hatred.

My wife and I met Bledsoe after a game in Baltimore and JP Losman before a game in Buffalo. Both were extremely nice and seemed like the kind of guy I'd want on my team. But they still didn't get the job done on the field.

I'm not, but thanks for trying. There are the guys like you who are frustrated with EJ's lack of visible progress and doubt his future success. That's fine. I'm in the same camp, but with a little bit more optimism than you are capable of. But then there are people who act like he's personally slighted them by merely existing in the vicinity of their favorite football team. Those are the guys who I don't understand, and I'd like them to make some sort of effort in helping me do so.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Think it's bad now, wait til next week when EJ looks just like he did in preseason.

I'm more worried about if he looks "okay"

[better days]

Better Days... your one for missing the bigger picture. There is a huge difference between those Giants teams and this Bills team, between Eli as a prospect and EJ as a prospect! Big Differences!

For one, the Giants were CONTENDERS with a number of aging HOF Vets who wanted to win a SB and felt that Collins gave them their biggest opportunity given that he had taken them to the Superbowl a few years before! So, its understandable why a few vets would prefer the guy who took them to the dance over the guy who was just drafted!

And as prospects, these two guys could not be more different! Eli was first pick in the draft and widely considered the best QB and player and the CONSENSUS #1 Overall Pick...IN ONE OF THE BEST QB DRAFTS EVER!!!

EJ on the other hand, was considered a Developmental Project who was projected to be 3-5th round pick in one of the WORST QB DRAFTS! And he is coming on a team that has not stiffed the playoffs in 15years, to vets who want any ray of light and hope.... and he brings NONE!
He is as far from Eli as you can get...

It was not me that said it, I just posted what Matt Kollar said.

Call him up & argue with him.

[better days]

Can you please get your head out of EJs ass? I mean you stick up for the guy like he is your son or something. He might turn it around but he probably won't. Your constant rescuing of his reputation in threads is sickening.

I never said EJ is going to be great.

All I am saying is that he should be given the year to sink or swim.

There are no better options than that, not even Orton.

[better days]

And IMO, what is sickening is all the HATE for a guy that has only played 10 games.

[Bill Cody]

Orton may be the best backup QB in the league but he is just that, a backup. It seems like signing Orton brought the EJ hate up several notches, not sure why. EJ is what he is. A raw QB who is going to have his ups and downs. I swear to God the usual suspects that post something negative in every single thread that even mentions EJ are sad sacks that need to step out of mommy's basement and get some fresh air.

[Forward_Lateral]

I hate the fact he's on my team

When did you buy the team?

[CoolBreeze]

And IMO, what is sickening is all the HATE for a guy that has only played 10 games.

We share the same opinion. He hasn't even played a full season yet, and last year he did fine for a rookie QB. He can win games, and it's questionable if he's progressed even close to where we want him. But I seriously doubt he's gotten worse. Unfortunately the constant badgering will continue until he shuts them up or gets benched. I'm not concerned with the "bench EJ he's terrible, and we're doomed" crowd. For they're not football experts, nor do they have a crystal ball. This is what 15 years of disappointment does to a select few. They're frustrated and want results now. For me, I'll wait until week 4 before I come to a conclusion about EJ.

I have to put my faith in EJ, our season is on his and only his shoulders. NOT ORTON'S whether we like it or not

[Mike]

Your storyline is a little off.
The 2003 Giants finished 4-12, including losing their last 8 games. Not so much a contenter…their QB (Collins) play was horrible.
In 2004 the Giants drafted Eli Manning.
Manning & Collins NEVER played on the same team …Collins was gone after the 2003 season. Kurt Warner was the other Giant QB in 2004.


In 2000 Collins took the Giants to the SB, with many of the same players that were on that 2003 team that imploded to 4-12.

Even the year before, 2002, the Giants were a playoff team and I think that was the year they lost that crazy game in the playoffs to the 49ers -second greatest playoff comeback!


Point is that the Giants and Bills are not comparable in their situations and prior performance and vet expectations.

[Fletch]

Can somebody explain to me all the EJ Hatred? I'm not talking about the people who doubt his ability to be our guy, I'm talking about the ones who are literally incapable of saying a nice, or even neutral, word about him. What is it about EJ Manuel that makes you people hate him as a human being? Do you even recognize that that's what is happening? Can we tone it down, maybe? He seems like a genuinely decent person and the type of guy who should be easy to root for.

These are the same people that cheered and applauded Whaley for drafting him and then proceeded to lecture us all on how anyone that was skeptical of the move didn't know what they were doing. This is that other side of that bi-polar thing that they have going on.

They get so ramped up with eagerness and anticipation instead of simply reading coherent and well-written documentation on, in this case, Manuel, and they ignore anything unfavorable written about him as a draftee.

Then when their opinionated narcissistic world crumbles around them they swing over to that other polarity in that bi-polar thing. Just wait, it will get even better as the season progresses and will climax early this year, probably in early October if not sooner. At least if the team isn't entertaining, you'll be able to come here and be entertained by it all.

[Mike]

I never said EJ is going to be great.

All I am saying is that he should be given the year to sink or swim.

There are no better options than that, not even Orton.

I see your 'Changing your Vote' already

[Fletch]

Players and Staffers told Marrone EJ wasn't good enough



A whole lot of people told everyone in the world that EJ wasn't good enough, that was prior to the day that we drafted him. Did anyone at OBD listen? No, of course not. Why put to use good information when you can wing it and make it sound good in post-draft speeches.

Instead, see below in my sig. Whaley states that they found a gem, that Manuel has that "It Factor," and that he's a great leader with presence.

Three strikes in a matter of moments on Draft Day last year.

[Homegrown]

In 2000 Collins took the Giants to the SB, with many of the same players that were on that 2003 team that imploded to 4-12.

Even the year before, 2002, the Giants were a playoff team and I think that was the year they lost that crazy game in the playoffs to the 49ers -second greatest playoff comeback!


Point is that the Giants and Bills are not comparable in their situations and prior performance and vet expectations.

True ...

[Fletch]

I see your 'Changing your Vote' already

Dude, he's a poster-boy for vote changing. He's a revolving door of opinions.

[Mike]

Dude, he's a poster-boy for vote changing. He's a revolving door of opinions.

Lol I know...

[Cleve]

This is beating a dead horse, but HOW does a supposed professional football GM, Buddy Nix, not realize the Fitzpatrick Xperiment had failed miserably a year before, when there was a GOOD QB class to draft from? Why did he feel the need to wait yet another year when the QB class is poor? The fans knew, the writers knew, and the stats proved that Fitzpatrick was mediocre at best. Why did it require another season for this epiphany to hit Buddy Nix?

And if you're the Bills, how could Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey not be viewed as part of the problem in the team being so awful? So how do you, as the Bills, leave the selection of the most vitally important player on the roster up to an OUT going GM, whose tenure encompassed losing season after losing season?

W.
T.
F.

[Fletch]

This is beating a dead horse, but HOW does a supposed professional football GM, Buddy Nix, not realize the Fitzpatrick Xperiment had failed miserably a year before, when there was a GOOD QB class to draft from? Why did he feel the need to wait yet another year when the QB class is poor? The fans knew, the writers knew, and the stats proved that Fitzpatrick was mediocre at best. Why did it require another season for this epiphany to hit Buddy Nix?

And if you're the Bills, how could Buddy Nix and Chan Gailey not be viewed as part of the problem in the team being so awful? So how do you, as the Bills, leave the selection of the most vitally important player on the roster up to an OUT going GM, whose tenure encompassed losing season after losing season?

W.
T.
F.

There are problems left and right. Guys like Nix and Gailey end up here in the first place because of those that hire them. That would have been Brandon. The entire FO is suspect, so is the entire personnel staff, there's no sense in trying to figure out which directors and scouts did this or that, the unit has failed in spades since the '90s. Cut the entire lump of flesh out upon new ownership and hopefully you got all the cancerous elements.



Why did he feel the need to wait yet another year when the QB class is poor?

Because this is the way that we do it in Buffalo and has been for years.

The "optimists" here then applaud every move and when it flops in spades they'll sit there and say "who else was available then?" while being completely oblivious to what you just said, or maybe better implied, that building a team takes a couple or three seasons, you grab a QB when there's one to be had (Wilson over Graham who's not even with the team anymore and which should have been a no-brainer, Kaepernick or even Dalton over Aaron Williams in 2011, Flacco over McKelvin in '08, etc.)

If you want a QB, go to a QB rich draft, don't wait until a year like last year where there isn't a serious 1st-rounder in the bunch and then pretend that there is. Or trade up for a guy like Losman. If you want a MLB, grab one in a MLB rich draft, don't wait until there's only one and have to give away draft picks to move up and get him. This front office just doesn't understand this most simplest of things. HTF are they capable of rebuilding a team? Clearly they're not.

Our history with trade-ups, or down for that matter, and just drafting in general, is horrendous. One more reason that the entire personnel dept. needs to go and be given their pink slips within hours of new ownership. No hard feelings, thanks for your contributions over the last 20 years, good luck with your future!

Get rid of Whaley, Brandon, Littman, Overdorf, and Mary Owen. All of 'em.

[swiper]

Can you please get your head out of EJs ass? I mean you stick up for the guy like he is your son or something. He might turn it around but he probably won't. Your constant rescuing of his reputation in threads is sickening.

ROFL. It's stupid.

[Mr. Miyagi]

There's probably enough Manuel bashing/hating threads to be segregated into their own forum.

[stuckincincy]

There's probably enough Manuel bashing/hating threads to be segregated into their own forum.


Engendered by by the Bills' management to refuse to acknowledge that they made a mistake. They forked over $ to a proven fragile Kolb, and got what the rest of the league management predicted. Now they toss up the highest contract ever for a back-up who has been a benifciary of not playing and cashing in big time.

Manuel played in what? 10 games last season? Despite extraordinary amounts of playing time in the preseason, along with an equal extraordinary time with the putative starter OL receivers and backs , his game was beyond putrid.

I'd start an iffy Orton and spew some spin about Manuel.

[BillsOverDolphins]

There's probably enough Manuel bashing/hating threads to be segregated into their own forum.

Oh just you wait till Sunday...it'll be like watching that one scene from Irreversible over and over and over again--with EJ playing the role of Monica Bellucci

[Ginger Vitis]

Bumpity bump... How much more convincing does Marrone need just pull the plug and play Orton

[Bunion]

Bumpity bump... How much more convincing does Marrone need just pull the plug and play Orton

Doug pulling Manuel signals that Whaley and probably Brandon are dead men walking. When they are, it'll happen.

Right now, Doug sounds like a politician covering for a cabinet secretary that got caught with his pants around his ankles. He's got all faith in the guy and his abilities right up to the point where he 'has to spend more time with his family' and the door hits him in the ass on the way out.

When Pegula comes in, I hope he's got the sense to fire people who need to be fired, and keep people who deserve to be kept. Schwartz as DC, Pepper Johnson as DL coach, Crossman as Special Teams (can't believe I'm saying that, but his guys have been lights out this year), everybody else can go spin.

[Typ0]

Why does there have to be so much drama? Maybe, just maybe this is a good coach making a tough call to help the team win.

[BillsOverDolphins]

and an Orton shall lead them

[better days]

I see your 'Changing your Vote' already

Well, you just don't know how to read.

I said this team could go 9-7 or 10-6.

I still think that.

[better days]

Dude, he's a poster-boy for vote changing. He's a revolving door of opinions.

BS, Show us some evidence of that.

[Fletch]

BS, Show us some evidence of that.

LOL

You're funny

[better days]

LOL

You're funny

And you are not funny, just wrong as usual.

[trapezeus]

Doug pulling Manuel signals that Whaley and probably Brandon are dead men walking. When they are, it'll happen.

Right now, Doug sounds like a politician covering for a cabinet secretary that got caught with his pants around his ankles. He's got all faith in the guy and his abilities right up to the point where he 'has to spend more time with his family' and the door hits him in the ass on the way out.

When Pegula comes in, I hope he's got the sense to fire people who need to be fired, and keep people who deserve to be kept. Schwartz as DC, Pepper Johnson as DL coach, Crossman as Special Teams (can't believe I'm saying that, but his guys have been lights out this year), everybody else can go spin.

I just don't think its coaches at this point. i just want brandon to pay for this. he needs to lose his job. and then a real gm needs to come in.

i realize that means the end for the coaches, but i wouldn't mind seeing marrone get another year since the rest of the team seems ok.

the issue is a GM picked a bad qb, doubled down to help him, and now is ok with a journeyman winning games. regardless of how this all turns out, there is no long term strategy in orton and no ability to fix it without a first round pick next year. The leadership at the very top created this situation. they should not be involved in any more decisions going forward. in a just world.

[Fletch]

Get rid of everyone and start fresh. No sense in trying to figure out who did what.

The way that Pegula is spending money I wouldn't be surprised to see him go after Gruden and a GM that Gruden likes. Kinda backwards but can you imagine.

Gruden and a good GM would be worth five Mario's and cost what one does.

[better days]

Get rid of everyone and start fresh. No sense in trying to figure out who did what.

The way that Pegula is spending money I wouldn't be surprised to see him go after Gruden and a GM that Gruden likes. Kinda backwards but can you imagine.

Gruden and a good GM would be worth five Mario's and cost what one does.

Gruden would probably be a GREAT HC for the Bills in the short term, but he lost the Bucs over time by lying to players & being two faced.

[JohnnyGold]

There are problems left and right. Guys like Nix and Gailey end up here in the first place because of those that hire them. That would have been Brandon. The entire FO is suspect, so is the entire personnel staff, there's no sense in trying to figure out which directors and scouts did this or that, the unit has failed in spades since the '90s. Cut the entire lump of flesh out upon new ownership and hopefully you got all the cancerous elements.


Because this is the way that we do it in Buffalo and has been for years.

The "optimists" here then applaud every move and when it flops in spades they'll sit there and say "who else was available then?" while being completely oblivious to what you just said, or maybe better implied, that building a team takes a couple or three seasons, you grab a QB when there's one to be had (Wilson over Graham who's not even with the team anymore and which should have been a no-brainer, Kaepernick or even Dalton over Aaron Williams in 2011, Flacco over McKelvin in '08, etc.)

If you want a QB, go to a QB rich draft, don't wait until a year like last year where there isn't a serious 1st-rounder in the bunch and then pretend that there is. Or trade up for a guy like Losman. If you want a MLB, grab one in a MLB rich draft, don't wait until there's only one and have to give away draft picks to move up and get him. This front office just doesn't understand this most simplest of things. HTF are they capable of rebuilding a team? Clearly they're not.

Our history with trade-ups, or down for that matter, and just drafting in general, is horrendous. One more reason that the entire personnel dept. needs to go and be given their pink slips within hours of new ownership. No hard feelings, thanks for your contributions over the last 20 years, good luck with your future!

Get rid of Whaley, Brandon, Littman, Overdorf, and Mary Owen. All of 'em.

Fletch, I think I agree with you more than any other poster on this board.

So--let me ask you this: do you think that if we had drafted Brady, we would have been able to develop him into the player he is (or should I say, was :) ) I think that the entire organization is second rate, and not just the big names that you mentioned. Everyone from the trainers, to the ball boys, to the water boys.

Ralph built a BAD company, it's as simple as that. And if he wasn't protected by the monopoly of the NFL, he would have gone out of business decades ago. Fortunately for Ralph's "investment", the Bills will always be a team in the NFL, and he got his billions. But in terms of putting football guys in football positions to draft football players and win football games, the Bills are a train wreck, that crashed into a tire factory, and the only way to put out the ensuing tire fire was by tapping into the waste treatment facility ***** tanks. It's bad.

HOPEFULLY, Pegula will spend the money out of pocket to get the assistants and staff in the building to change the culture of the team, the way the organization operates, and the hierarchy of control. To me, second to Pegula being hired, the most important story to come out about the Bills in the last 20 years was the report that Marrone wanted the trainers ousted, and the "Bills" wouldn't allow it.

With all that being said--I think Orton is the best QB the Bills have had since Kelly.

[Ginger Vitis]

Meh to Gruden... He is/was overrated got a ton of press due to his "Chucky" image.. Has been out of football for 5 years and likely wouldn't have the same hunger or drive that he did in his 30s

[Typ0]

That Wilson built a bad company is really a matter of perspective. I think he built a good company but the goals were quite different than ours. Of course pushing the spin they were there to win football games was easy because that's what the front line guys were there hired to do. But there were other goals driving the organization that were consistent with someone who is at the end of their life cycle.

Not sure Orton is better than Bledsoe...but Bledsoe always had this 'force it in there and shoot the team in the foot' thing going on. That's why he was benched for Brady ... because you can't have a guy out there who will blow a big game for you no matter how good he is.


Fletch, I think I agree with you more than any other poster on this board.

So--let me ask you this: do you think that if we had drafted Brady, we would have been able to develop him into the player he is (or should I say, was :) ) I think that the entire organization is second rate, and not just the big names that you mentioned. Everyone from the trainers, to the ball boys, to the water boys.

Ralph built a BAD company, it's as simple as that. And if he wasn't protected by the monopoly of the NFL, he would have gone out of business decades ago. Fortunately for Ralph's "investment", the Bills will always be a team in the NFL, and he got his billions. But in terms of putting football guys in football positions to draft football players and win football games, the Bills are a train wreck, that crashed into a tire factory, and the only way to put out the ensuing tire fire was by tapping into the waste treatment facility ***** tanks. It's bad.

HOPEFULLY, Pegula will spend the money out of pocket to get the assistants and staff in the building to change the culture of the team, the way the organization operates, and the hierarchy of control. To me, second to Pegula being hired, the most important story to come out about the Bills in the last 20 years was the report that Marrone wanted the trainers ousted, and the "Bills" wouldn't allow it.

With all that being said--I think Orton is the best QB the Bills have had since Kelly.