Pundit rates QB corps

[stuckincincy]

Bucky Brooks bops Buf:

Colts, Saints, Chargers boast NFL's top quarterback situations
By Bucky Brooks NFL Media analyst Published: Sept. 1, 2014 at 02:42 p.m. Updated: Sept. 1, 2014 at 09:00 p.m.


32) Buffalo Bills
Starter: EJ Manuel
Backup: Kyle Orton

Outlook: Buffalo is primed to make a postseason run, based on a wealth of talent on both sides of the ball, but Manuel's shaky preseason has sparked concerns about his readiness as a starter. There is already a feeling around the NFL that veteran Kyle Orton -- brought in to stabilize the backup position -- could unseat the second-year pro in a few weeks. Given the overall instability at the position, the Bills are in a bit of a quandary.".

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000386682/article/colts-saints-chargers-boast-nfls-top-quarterback-situations

[Turf]

Once again, thanks Buddy. Who decided to hire this hick.

[better days]

He is CRAZY to rate the Colts with Luck #1.

IMO, the Colts should be about #10.

Luck had a CMP% of 54.1% his rookie year & 60.2% last year.

EJ's CMP% of 58.8 compares very well to Luck, yet Luck is #1 & EJ is #32?

Too high for Luck & too low for EJ IMO.

I think the Bills should be above the Texans with Fitz & Rams with Hill & maybe a few others.

[Topas]

better days, are you kidding me?
First, do you really want to compare EJ to Luck. Ok, it is fine to compare them, but it is not fine to find them comparable.
And second, this is also about the backup and while Hasselbeck is not the Pro-Bowl player he once was, he is definitely a lot better than Orton.

And our QB situation should be rated 33rd out of 32 teams at best. Yes, EJ might click and everything might work out. There is still the possibility. But the last 15 months told us that the probability for EJ to click is lower than for all other starting QBs. Having only the next 16 games in mind, Fitz would be a better option. And thats says more about EJ than about Fitz.

[justasportsfan]

We're running the ball anyways. How about someone rate our rb's.

[better days]

better days, are you kidding me?
First, do you really want to compare EJ to Luck. Ok, it is fine to compare them, but it is not fine to find them comparable.
And second, this is also about the backup and while Hasselbeck is not the Pro-Bowl player he once was, he is definitely a lot better than Orton.

And our QB situation should be rated 33rd out of 32 teams at best. Yes, EJ might click and everything might work out. There is still the possibility. But the last 15 months told us that the probability for EJ to click is lower than for all other starting QBs. Having only the next 16 games in mind, Fitz would be a better option. And thats says more about EJ than about Fitz.

If you read my post, I did not say the Bills with EJ should be rated anywhere near the Colts with Luck.

I am saying #1 with Luck is too high a rating, there are much better QB's than him like Brees, Rodgers, Brady, Peyton, etc.

I said the Colts should be at about #10.

I am also saying, the Bills at #32 is too low. EJ is better than Fitz & Hill & probably a few others.

And if Hasselbeck were any good, he would be starting somewhere with all the CRAPPY starters in the NFL.

[stuckincincy]

We're running the ball anyways. How about someone rate our rb's.

Emphasizing running the ball in the age of unprecedented advantage handed over to the passing game. Hmm... :pray:

[Fletch]

Outlook: Buffalo is primed to make a postseason run, based on a wealth of talent on both sides of the ball, ...

I think that as the season progresses we're going to quickly learn that this "wealth of talent" on defense is paper talent only. I us being a bottom-half defense easily this season.

The offense has some talent pending several things.

First, whether a role-playing RB is capable of actually doing more this season, particularly on 3rd downs, something that hasn't happened in his four seasons in the league to date.

Second, to what extent Jackson is capable of playing as the league's oldest RB at 33, particularly on yards-per-carry.

Third, to what extent Watkins is the player that everyone is expecting. It's one thing to perform in camp against a bunch of players that are no longer on the team, or against our questionable secondary otherwise, but in preseason he struggled against starting CBs even before he got hurt and otherwise showed nothing with 3 grabs for 21 yards on 7 targets.

Fourth, to what extent will Woods develop and improve? Is he going to end up being a 700-800 yard WR, or is he capable of putting up 1,000-1,200 yards? We don't know.

Fifth, how is Williams going to play here? Again, we don't know.

Sixth, what are we going to get from our TE play which is dicey on paper.

Those are a lot of question marks for a team with such a "wealth of talent." The WRs are very young and inexperienced apart from Williams.

[better days]

Emphasizing running the ball in the age of unprecedented advantage handed over to the passing game. Hmm... :pray:

In the AFC East, the running game remains important.

The Pats* won the 2nd game last year against the Bills because they ran the ball better than the Bills did.

[justasportsfan]

Emphasizing running the ball in the age of unprecedented advantage handed over to the passing game. Hmm... :pray:

yeah it sucks. Even if we were to throw the ball , Ej dinking the ball under 5 yards won't help. :ill:

[better days]

I think that as the season progresses we're going to quickly learn that this "wealth of talent" on defense is paper talent only. I us being a bottom-half defense easily this season.

The offense has some talent pending several things.

First, whether a role-playing RB is capable of actually doing more this season, particularly on 3rd downs, something that hasn't happened in his four seasons in the league to date.

Second, to what extent Jackson is capable of playing as the league's oldest RB at 33, particularly on yards-per-carry.

Third, to what extent Watkins is the player that everyone is expecting. It's one thing to perform in camp against a bunch of players that are no longer on the team, or against our questionable secondary otherwise, but in preseason he struggled against starting CBs even before he got hurt and otherwise showed nothing with 3 grabs for 21 yards on 7 targets.

Fourth, to what extent will Woods develop and improve? Is he going to end up being a 700-800 yard WR, or is he capable of putting up 1,000-1,200 yards? We don't know.

Fifth, how is Williams going to play here? Again, we don't know.

Sixth, what are we going to get from our TE play which is dicey on paper.

Those are a lot of question marks for a team with such a "wealth of talent." The WRs are very young and inexperienced apart from Williams.

Well, I think you will be proven WRONG about the Bills defense.

I expect them to be in the top 10 against the run & in the top 15 overall.

[Fletch]

Once again, thanks Buddy. Who decided to hire this hick.

Once again ...

"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

Why do people still insist that Nix was responsible, Whaley's on record several times directly asserting that the choice of Manuel was his.

[stuckincincy]

yeah it sucks. Even if we were to throw the ball , Ej dinking the ball under 5 yards won't help. :ill:

They are so handicapped by Manuel's inability to see and hit receivers stretching the field. Even with that, I had hoped in pre season that they would run 3-down series doing just that, understanding that EJ's completion rate would be poor, so that it would be on the game films. For cripes sake, just try it.

As it stands now, no opposition really need fear any long game, so they just hover around combating the incessant nickle-and-dime offense BUF presents.

[Fletch]

It's going to be FUGLY on offense. I see Watkins struggling too as he didn't show much against starting DBs in the preseason except that he's not just going to blaze past them like so many seem to be expecting. Then there's the issues with his ribs. Williams and Woods cannot carry this offense.

Unfortunately I don't see the D being nearly as good as many seem to think it will be. It's going to be very weak against the pass, just like it was last season.

It cannot possibly be stated often enough that we did not beat one single team ranked in the top half of the league in passing last season, not one, despite our record sacks and high INT totals. File under it looked good on paper but the the sacks and INTs simply masked the real problems.

[Mike]

Well, I think you will be proven WRONG about the Bills defense.

I expect them to be in the top 10 against the run & in the top 15 overall.

Top 15 is average
Average means that your not very good or bad.

If this were to happen, than he would be correct in saying the Bills defense is over rated.

[Fletch]

He is CRAZY to rate the Colts with Luck #1.

IMO, the Colts should be about #10.

Luck had a CMP% of 54.1% his rookie year & 60.2% last year.

EJ's CMP% of 58.8 compares very well to Luck, yet Luck is #1 & EJ is #32?

Too high for Luck & too low for EJ IMO.

I think the Bills should be above the Texans with Fitz & Rams with Hill & maybe a few others.

You keep saying "IMO," but YO's are wrong so many times. You're wrong way more than you're correct. You even did a complete 180 on the whole Toronto thing.

You're a revolving door of opinions.

[Homegrown]

When I 1st read the title, I thought it said "Putin rates QB corps"
17044

[OLDSRIP]

Once again ...

"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

Why do people still insist that Nix was responsible, Whaley's on record several times directly asserting that the choice of Manuel was his.

Many people continue to say it was Marone who made the decision too.
strange indeed.

[Albany,n.y.]

Once again ...

"I was an integral part in the drafting process of EJ Manuel," Whaley said Thursday on NFL Network's Total Access. "I was the person that handled the draft process and setting up the board."

Why do people still insist that Nix was responsible, Whaley's on record several times directly asserting that the choice of Manuel was his.

Nix was responsible for letting a number of NFL starting QBs sail by when the Bills were on the clock (worse yet they were available in the 2nd & 3rd rounds) when he was GM: Kapernick, Dalton, Wilson & Foles to name them. GMs of other teams grabbed these guys, sometimes on the very next pick. He even traded up for TJ Graham with Wilson & Foles available. He put all his eggs into the Fitz basket & then dumped him. He backed the team into a corner where they had to use a 1st rounder on a QB in a very questionable QB year after sleeping through 2 straight QB rich drafts. That's why I insist Nix is responsible for the QB mess.
PS: I don't need to hear that teams like Minnesota drafted guys like Ponder as a defense for Nix's incompetence. Just showing that another team's GM was even dumber than Nix doesn't absolve him of blame. It was his job to get this team a winning QB and he failed miserably.

[Fletch]

When I 1st read the title, I thought it said "Putin rates QB corps"
17044

LMAO

[Fletch]

Many people continue to say it was Marone who made the decision too.
strange indeed.

I'm just wondering why fools keep insisting that a GM that had already all but "resigned" and for which it was made public prior to the Draft that year that he wouldn't be the GM after that Draft, would be allowed to do anything at all significant in the future of the team from a player perspective.

i.e., "You're fired, but before you go, here, straighten some very important things out for us."

I mean really, just f'in' really?

[Fletch]

Nix was responsible for letting a number of NFL starting QBs sail by when the Bills were on the clock (worse yet they were available in the 2nd & 3rd rounds) when he was GM: Kapernick, Dalton, Wilson & Foles to name them. GMs of other teams grabbed these guys, sometimes on the very next pick. He even traded up for TJ Graham with Wilson & Foles available. He put all his eggs into the Fitz basket & then dumped him. He backed the team into a corner where they had to use a 1st rounder on a QB in a very questionable QB year after sleeping through 2 straight QB rich drafts. That's why I insist Nix is responsible for the QB mess.
PS: I don't need to hear that teams like Minnesota drafted guys like Ponder as a defense for Nix's incompetence. Just showing that another team's GM was even dumber than Nix doesn't absolve him of blame. It was his job to get this team a winning QB and he failed miserably.

You can insist that Nix is responsible for this QB mess, but you can in no way insist that drafting Manuel was his idea. It was clearly Whaley's. So as long as we start there I'd be inclined to at least partially agree with you although I'd say that this goes way back beyond even Nix.

[swiper]

He is CRAZY to rate the Colts with Luck #1.

IMO, the Colts should be about #10.

Luck had a CMP% of 54.1% his rookie year & 60.2% last year.

EJ's CMP% of 58.8 compares very well to Luck, yet Luck is #1 & EJ is #32?

Too high for Luck & too low for EJ IMO.

I think the Bills should be above the Texans with Fitz & Rams with Hill & maybe a few others.

They let Luck make REAL drop-backs and throw REAL passes. Try watching and understanding what you're looking at. Because you don't.

[Novacane]

I can't argue with rating us 32.

[justasportsfan]

They are so handicapped by Manuel's inability to see and hit receivers stretching the field. Even with that, I had hoped in pre season that they would run 3-down series doing just that, understanding that EJ's completion rate would be poor, so that it would be on the game films. For cripes sake, just try it.

As it stands now, no opposition really need fear any long game, so they just hover around combating the incessant nickle-and-dime offense BUF presents.

Now that they brought in Orton who is willing to throw the ball, maybe EJ will start thinking dinking isn't gonna cut it.

[swiper]

You can insist that Nix is responsible for this QB mess, but you can in no way insist that drafting Manuel was his idea. It was clearly Whaley's. So as long as we start there I'd be inclined to at least partially agree with you although I'd say that this goes way back beyond even Nix.

Can't disagree with any of that. Maybe Whaley felt backed into a corner with regard to this issue.

I mean Geno Smith actually looks like he's made strides and now looks better than Manuel. He could have made a different choice I suppose.

[stuckincincy]

Forget Nix and Whaley. They are just the latest names whirling around a franchise that hasn't hit on a qb since Kelly faded away.

It borders on the near impossible, that the club hasn't hit on a QB through the years and years that wasn't two or so and out.

Even dumb luck has eluded them...hasn't walked over to them, put an arm around, and said "Hi - I'm Dumb Luck! I'm here to help you"!

:crap:

[better days]

Top 15 is average
Average means that your not very good or bad.

If this were to happen, than he would be correct in saying the Bills defense is over rated.

He said the Bills would finish in the BOTTOM half of the NFL.

I said the Bills will be in the TOP half of the NFL.

I did NOT say they would finish #15, I said they would finish ABOVE that number.

[Fletch]

Now that they brought in Orton who is willing to throw the ball, maybe EJ will start thinking dinking isn't gonna cut it.

And why would you think this?

For starters you assume that he is capable of such thought and then of translating it to the field. Is there anything you've read about Manuel in the past that suggests this? I know I've posted a whole bunch of stuff from people that watched him at FSU for every snap he ever took there, with a coaching staff that was near tops in the NCAA's, and they say that they couldn't do it there. So now under Marrone and Hackett you think they'll be able to correct this, or that Manuel himself in some unprecedented manner will figure it out for himself?

I see no basis for such optimism.

I also see no basis for any notion that Orton will end up replacing Manuel at any point other than for injury even though it would be the smart thing to do.

[better days]

They let Luck make REAL drop-backs and throw REAL passes. Try watching and understanding what you're looking at. Because you don't.

Yeah, I do.

You IDIOTS can't read.

I did not say EJ or the Bills should be rated anywhere near the Colts & Luck.

[Fletch]

Can't disagree with any of that. Maybe Whaley felt backed into a corner with regard to this issue.

I mean Geno Smith actually looks like he's made strides and now looks better than Manuel. He could have made a different choice I suppose.

I sure as hell would have waited until round 2 to see which one of the two was available. Having taken Manuel in round 2 doesn't pose all of these issues, I said it at that time too.

You're being generous with Whaley. He just read too many press clippings about him and about how he was the next up-and-coming GM genius and started to believe it without trying to do something to provide a basis for it first. I really think that he, as a direct result, began to think that he was really that bright and sharp and took Manuel almost trying to buck the well-documented issues regarding Manuel.

Either that or he just ignored a wealth of pertinent information on Manuel that was publicly available prior to the Draft last year. Or both.

Either way it doesn't say much for him.

[Fletch]

Forget Nix and Whaley. They are just the latest names whirling around a franchise that hasn't hit on a qb since Kelly faded away.

It borders on the near impossible, that the club hasn't hit on a QB through the years and years that wasn't two or so and out.

Even dumb luck has eluded them...hasn't walked over to them, put an arm around, and said "Hi - I'm Dumb Luck! I'm here to help you"!

:crap:

As they say, you make your own luck sometimes.

Again, when you consistently wait for QB poor drafts and then claim that you had to draft a QB, it only reflects poor strategic planning and suggests that you don't know what you're doing.

Money has not been the issue. We've paid a number of players well beyond what any other team would reasonably give them. We hardly ever see our money's worth coming back to us. That's a common thread of a problem for this FO for decades after Polian left. Even Butler and Smith were at least somewhat overrated although I'd much rather have them, at least they had a clue.

[gebobs]

Well, I think you will be proven WRONG about the Bills defense.

I expect them to be in the top 10 against the run & in the top 15 overall.

This from 28th against the run and from 10th overall. How do you account for the swing in rushing yards allowed? Will Spikes be that big of a difference? Does the injury to Alonso not have significant impact in this regard?

As for the possible drop in overall, that's certainly believable. I think the Bills secondary is going to struggle this year and the defense as a whole will feel it if ever the offense can't establish the ground game.

I guess we need to hope the defense is all what you think and more if the Bills have any hope this year. Here's hoping they pull it all together and guys like Bradham and Searcy turn in seasons that make heads turn around the league. Dare we hope McKelvin does too?

[swiper]

One way to solve this problem moving forward: Pegula/Polian.

[stuckincincy]

Now that they brought in Orton who is willing to throw the ball, maybe EJ will start thinking dinking isn't gonna cut it.

If the offense is as moribund as in the pre season and the games aren't close after the first three games and are losses, I'd sit Manual. Orton may not light it up, but it makes no sense to think that Manuel is going to magically discover the light.

You have to be smart enough to cut your losses and move on.

[gebobs]

They let Luck make REAL drop-backs and throw REAL passes. Try watching and understanding what you're looking at. Because you don't.

It seems the #1 ranking has as much to do with the 38-year-old backup who is seven years removed from his peak season as it does the third-year starter.

Indy fans have to love what Luck has done, but #1 overall? God forbid he should ever go down for an extended period. If I was a Colts fan, the last thing I would want to see is Hasselbeck carrying the load for more than a week.

[Fletch]

One way to solve this problem moving forward: Pegula/Polian.

As much as I love Polian, my response to this is what Parcell's response was when LT wanted to play in New England when The Tuna took over.

NO NO NO NO NO!

Polian's in his 70's and his better days are past him. No room here for nostalgia. I'm not even sure he'd accept the job, my thinking is that he would not.

[BillsOverDolphins]

He is CRAZY to rate the Colts with Luck #1.

IMO, the Colts should be about #10.

Luck had a CMP% of 54.1% his rookie year & 60.2% last year.

EJ's CMP% of 58.8 compares very well to Luck, yet Luck is #1 & EJ is #32?

Too high for Luck & too low for EJ IMO.

I think the Bills should be above the Texans with Fitz & Rams with Hill & maybe a few others.

17045

If every player in the NFL was available for drafting right now (at their current age/health/etc), Luck would be the #1 player off the board. The only other pick that would make a modicum of sense is Aaron Rodgers. EJ might go undrafted

[BillsOverDolphins]

When I 1st read the title, I thought it said "Putin rates QB corps"
17044

I'd love for him to buy the Bills tbh

[stuckincincy]

This from 28th against the run and from 10th overall. How do you account for the swing in rushing yards allowed? Will Spikes be that big of a difference? Does the injury to Alonso not have significant impact in this regard?

As for the possible drop in overall, that's certainly believable. I think the Bills secondary is going to struggle this year and the defense as a whole will feel it if ever the offense can't establish the ground game.

I guess we need to hope the defense is all what you think and more if the Bills have any hope this year. Here's hoping they pull it all together and guys like Bradham and Searcy turn in seasons that make heads turn around the league. Dare we hope McKelvin does too?

Thanks to NFL Network, I've seen 3 BUF ps games. MLB Spikes has been played as a 5th DL, but without knuckles on the ground or lining up on the LOS. Come regular season, opposing qbs face such with glee.

Then Schwartz threw blitz after blitz, and because of that, tossed away what smart folks do - use the preseason to evaluate the entire defensive roster.

[better days]

This from 28th against the run and from 10th overall. How do you account for the swing in rushing yards allowed? Will Spikes be that big of a difference? Does the injury to Alonso not have significant impact in this regard?

As for the possible drop in overall, that's certainly believable. I think the Bills secondary is going to struggle this year and the defense as a whole will feel it if ever the offense can't establish the ground game.

I guess we need to hope the defense is all what you think and more if the Bills have any hope this year. Here's hoping they pull it all together and guys like Bradham and Searcy turn in seasons that make heads turn around the league. Dare we hope McKelvin does too?

Even without Spikes, the Bills would have played against the run much better under Schwartz than they did under Pettine who sold out the run game to bring extra pressure on the QB.

The addition of Spikes is HUGE however, with him in the Schwartz defense, I have no doubt the Bills finish top 10 against the run, maybe top 5.

The question will be how well they play against the pass. It may fall off somewhat from last year, but I don't think it will be a huge drop.

[swiper]

Even without Spikes, the Bills would have played against the run much better under Schwartz than they did under Pettine who sold out the run game to bring extra pressure on the QB.

The addition of Spikes is HUGE however, with him in the Schwartz defense, I have no doubt the Bills finish top 10 against the run, maybe top 5.

The question will be how well they play against the pass. It may fall off somewhat from last year, but I don't think it will be a huge drop.

Your dog does not look happy!

http://brojsimpson.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/whats-wrong-picture-dog-hump-520x604.jpg

[better days]

You keep saying "IMO," but YO's are wrong so many times. You're wrong way more than you're correct. You even did a complete 180 on the whole Toronto thing.

You're a revolving door of opinions.

You don't know what the hell you are talking about.

I posted once last year all the thing I predicted that I was proven right about to refute stupid claims like this.

This year I predicted Schwartz would have a GOOD defense when others were moaning about the loss of Pettine.

I also said Spikes would be a GREAT signing when others were calling him a two down player & dismissing him as someone the Pats* did not see fit to keep.

I said from day one the Bills would NEVER move to Toronto, so I don't know what you are talking about there. But I NEVER changed my position about Toronto.

I can't wait to see this season play out.

I PREDICT:

The Bills will remain in Buffalo with Pegula as owner.

That the Bills will have a GOOD Defense & Spikes will play a huge part of that.

That the Bills will win at least 8 games.

[Mr. Pink]

This from 28th against the run and from 10th overall. How do you account for the swing in rushing yards allowed? Will Spikes be that big of a difference? Does the injury to Alonso not have significant impact in this regard?

As for the possible drop in overall, that's certainly believable. I think the Bills secondary is going to struggle this year and the defense as a whole will feel it if ever the offense can't establish the ground game.

I guess we need to hope the defense is all what you think and more if the Bills have any hope this year. Here's hoping they pull it all together and guys like Bradham and Searcy turn in seasons that make heads turn around the league. Dare we hope McKelvin does too?

They'll be better against the run because they collapse down on rush blitzing and will end up being much worse against the pass as the loss of Byrd will be huge.

[better days]

They'll be better against the run because they collapse down on rush blitzing and will end up being much worse against the pass as the loss of Byrd will be huge.

4 INT's for Byrd last year.

I predict someone will at least match that in the Bills secondary.

[Mr. Pink]

4 INT's for Byrd last year.

I predict someone will at least match that in the Bills secondary.

Did you see what the Tampa first string offense did in the passing game against this team?

McCown ain't even all that good, you'll see that happen on an almost weekly basis by every NFL team.

Same goes with their lack of ability to run the ball against the D. You'll see that almost weekly too.

Of course there will be outliers on both accounts where some team will throw for like 100 yards with 3 INTs and some team will run for 200 yards. But overall this will probably be a top 10 run D while being a bottom 10 pass D.

[YardRat]

Buffalo should be in the bottom four with Cleveland, Tennessee and St Louis, and considering their starter struggled and back-up has been here less than a week it isn't surprising to see someone have them at #32.

[Mike]

4 INT's for Byrd last year.

I predict someone will at least match that in the Bills secondary.

Why don't you:

1) Compare Byrd with the person replacing him
2) Compare 2014 Stats
3) Compare 2013 to 2014 Bills Secondary! Did it get better or worst?
4) Compare 2013 to 2014 Siants Secondary! Did it get better or worst?

[YardRat]

Why don't you:

1) Compare Byrd with the person replacing him
2) Compare 2014 Stats
3) Compare 2013 to 2014 Bills Secondary! Did it get better or worst?
4) Compare 2013 to 2014 Siants Secondary! Did it get better or worst?

If the run defense plays up to expectations, the defensive passing stats should be worse than last season...doesn't really have much to do with Byrd vs his replacement. That being said, with more athleticism on the back end and increase opportunities, turnovers should increase.