Was this game really much different from the games of the last few seasons?

[Fletch]

For starters Chicago's D does not appear to be very good. Last season they ranked dead f'n last in rushing D and had a very average pass D despite allowing 3 fewer pass TDs than we did.

Contrasted with last season though:

4 of 12 on 3rd-down conversions, three of them in the 1st quarter.

15 total 1st-downs, 29 for Chicago.

9 penalties for 108 yards

28 min. TOP

Red Zone efficiency, 50%

Manuel still playing like Manuel. Can't show up for more than a quarter. 3 of his 4 3rd-down conversions were in the 1st Quarter as were nearly half of his passing yards.

He was 9 of 14 for 89 yards in quarters 2 - 4. Big yip!

Spiller showed nothing. Other than two big running plays the running game yielded little and no 3rd-down conversions.

The team still didn't show that it could generate drives. We had two over 40 yards.

Sorry, I'm seeing absolutely nothing different than last season. I'm not going to attempt to delude myself into thinking that I did.

[HAMMER]

The Bears brought in three key players to shore up their run defense, maybe they got a little better huh? Or does that not fit your agenda?

[jimmifli]

You are what your record says you are.

So, yeah, I can think of one way this game was REALLY different from past seasons. The 1 is on the other side of the - .

[Fletch]

The Bears brought in three key players to shore up their run defense, maybe they got a little better huh? Or does that not fit your agenda?

So which of those facts are you disputing contrasted with last season?

*****ing, whining, complaining are not arguments.

[Fletch]

You are what your record says you are.

So, yeah, I can think of one way this game was REALLY different from past seasons. The 1 is on the other side of the - .

Sure, and we were 3-0 after 3 weeks just three seasons ago and finished 6-10.

This isn't about being 1-0 or 0-1, it's about whether or not this team is playing differently than last season. I don't see that it is.

If you see that it is, say why. Add something intellectual to the debate, not just emotional stuff.

[JoeMama]

Yes, we should all be furious about this lousy win!

Winning a tough game on the road is a bad omen for a losing franchise. It can only mean one thing: the season's ****ing over!

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/JoeMama025/tzcvvrfbf7izn0mr28ew3pz5jcy42tobdvnc6x7bo88f4eb5b3yew5j6vzxjs6uy0idpp0trobinson_fred2-150x150_zps1b129938.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/JoeMama025/media/tzcvvrfbf7izn0mr28ew3pz5jcy42tobdvnc6x7bo88f4eb5b3yew5j6vzxjs6uy0idpp0trobinson_fred2-150x150_zps1b129938.jpg.html)

[Novacane]

EJ and the rest of the team made enough plays to WIN. There's the difference from games in the past.

[trapezeus]

fletch, you don't even acknowledge that it was fun to watch the team win. most of your criticisms are accurate, but we've definitely been in games like yesterday's where we just bled it away and didn't have a chance. and we did that against worse teams. but we won. It's monday. enjoy it.

Then we can talk about adjustments. the fact you are a pro "the team has to move" and can't enjoy a simple win kind of speaks to the trollishness of your posts.

I'm fairly negative on the team, but i want them to stay and i want them to win.

[Ginger Vitis]

Other than two big running plays the running game yielded little and no 3rd-down conversions.




Just pathetic your logic sorry you cant take a 45 and 38 yard run out of the equation

[Novacane]

Just pathetic your logic sorry you cant take a 45 and 38 yard run out of the equation


He must be a Wys diciple. You won't get this since you've only been around since 2009 lol

[Turf]

I think maybe we just dominated them somewhat? I remember Tasker saying that when you see this team get off the bus, they are big guys, unlike the previous group that fielded oft injured players. Maybe that's what you're seeing, rather than Chicago sucks.

[better days]

For starters Chicago's D does not appear to be very good. Last season they ranked dead f'n last in rushing D and had a very average pass D despite allowing 3 fewer pass TDs than we did.

Contrasted with last season though:

4 of 12 on 3rd-down conversions, three of them in the 1st quarter.

15 total 1st-downs, 29 for Chicago.

9 penalties for 108 yards

28 min. TOP

Red Zone efficiency, 50%

Manuel still playing like Manuel. Can't show up for more than a quarter. 3 of his 4 3rd-down conversions were in the 1st Quarter as were nearly half of his passing yards.

He was 9 of 14 for 89 yards in quarters 2 - 4. Big yip!

Spiller showed nothing. Other than two big running plays the running game yielded little and no 3rd-down conversions.

The team still didn't show that it could generate drives. We had two over 40 yards.

Sorry, I'm seeing absolutely nothing different than last season. I'm not going to attempt to delude myself into thinking that I did.

Well Troll, I told you before the game that the bears defense was TERRIBLE, but you still expected them to blow the Bills out in that game.

FAIL.

[Ginger Vitis]

He must be a Wys diciple. You won't get this since you've only been around since 2009 lol

lol actually I am aware of Wysian logic.. Gregg Williams use to do this as well in post game press conferences " Well if you discount Ricky Williams 55 and 60 yard TD runs our run defense was good today"

[HAMMER]

I don't think the Bears defense is as bad as you assert, I guess we will find out soon enough.

[Fletch]

Just pathetic your logic sorry you cant take a 45 and 38 yard run out of the equation

The point is one of whether we ran well all game or merely had a couple of big plays. We didn't run well all game. If we had then maybe we would have had an average number of sustained drives.

Or, maybe Manuel didn't play as well as many want to think here. I mean if Manuel played well, and our running game on average was stellar, and it was good, just against a bad rushing D, and averaging almost a yard per carry less in regulation than the Bears allowed last season is hardly impressive, then it seems to me that we would have scored more than two TDs in regulation with one being on a 7 yard drive thanks to the D.

Not to mention, all that offense and only 2 TDs in regulation, one courtesy of the D. That's it?

In regulation we had one drive, one, over 40 yards. Is that good to you? Seriously?

You really don't agree with that? What, it doesn't make sense to you? Something in there unreasonable?

[better days]

I don't think the Bears defense is as bad as you assert, I guess we will find out soon enough.

I expect the Bears to finish 8-8 or worse & not because of their offense.

[Fletch]

I don't think the Bears defense is as bad as you assert, I guess we will find out soon enough.

LMAO

That's hysterical. Before the game all we heard and read here was about how bad the Bears D sucks. Now all of a sudden it's not that bad.

You guys provide more humor and entertainment than you realize.

I haven't even looked, but if you want to run the reasons why the Bears D somehow went from last in rushing last season and well below average overall to something better now, I'll read and consider it.

[better days]

The point is one of whether we ran well all game or merely had a couple of big plays. We didn't run well all game. If we had then maybe we would have had an average number of sustained drives.

Or, maybe Manuel didn't play as well as many want to think here. I mean if Manuel played well, and our running game on average was stellar, and it was good, just against a bad rushing D, and averaging almost a yard per carry less in regulation than the Bears allowed last season is hardly impressive, then it seems to me that we would have scored more than two TDs in regulation with one being on a 7 yard drive thanks to the D.

Not to mention, all that offense and only 2 TDs in regulation, one courtesy of the D. That's it?

In regulation we had one drive, one, over 40 yards. Is that good to you? Seriously?

You really don't agree with that? What, it doesn't make sense to you? Something in there unreasonable?

Well, if 193 yards is not running well in your mind OK.

I think almost 200 yds rushing is pretty damn good.

[justasportsfan]

For starters Chicago's D does not appear to be very good. Last season they ranked dead f'n last in rushing D and had a very average pass D despite allowing 3 fewer pass TDs than we did.

Contrasted with last season though:

4 of 12 on 3rd-down conversions, three of them in the 1st quarter.

15 total 1st-downs, 29 for Chicago.

9 penalties for 108 yards

28 min. TOP

Red Zone efficiency, 50%

Manuel still playing like Manuel. Can't show up for more than a quarter. 3 of his 4 3rd-down conversions were in the 1st Quarter as were nearly half of his passing yards.

He was 9 of 14 for 89 yards in quarters 2 - 4. Big yip!

Spiller showed nothing. Other than two big running plays the running game yielded little and no 3rd-down conversions.

The team still didn't show that it could generate drives. We had two over 40 yards.

Sorry, I'm seeing absolutely nothing different than last season. I'm not going to attempt to delude myself into thinking that I did.


I saw a bills team win in Chicago. Thats all I care. I know you're hurt when the bills win. We understand.

[BuffaloRedleg]

We beat a playoff caliber (and what I wrongly thought a SB caliber) team on the road.

That is very much different from almost all the games from the last 2 seasons.

That's all I need, and all I care about.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Yes, we should all be furious about this lousy win!

Winning a tough game on the road is a bad omen for a losing franchise. It can only mean one thing: the season's ****ing over!

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q263/JoeMama025/tzcvvrfbf7izn0mr28ew3pz5jcy42tobdvnc6x7bo88f4eb5b3yew5j6vzxjs6uy0idpp0trobinson_fred2-150x150_zps1b129938.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/JoeMama025/media/tzcvvrfbf7izn0mr28ew3pz5jcy42tobdvnc6x7bo88f4eb5b3yew5j6vzxjs6uy0idpp0trobinson_fred2-150x150_zps1b129938.jpg.html)

I for one am outraged that it took us five quarters to not lose this one. I am even more outraged that the Bills failed to live down to my expectations. Damn Defense stopping the Bears and forcing OT and damn that old DIII product Fred Jackson for stiff arming that guy and placing us in position to win. Damn it, wins always leave me sad. Now you wanna ***** about us being 1-0? Fine, go ahead. I hope you join us next week and ***** that we are 2-0

[MikeInRoch]

Just like normal. When we lose, it doesn't matter how we look. When we win, it does.

[Fletch]

Well Troll, I told you before the game that the bears defense was TERRIBLE, but you still expected them to blow the Bills out in that game.

FAIL.

Wrong better days. I didn't make a single prediction about this game, not one other than maybe in passing that I expected them to lose. Maybe, I'm not even sure I said that.

This team has a history of trying to come out of the gates swinging to prove to the world that "this season" is and will be different than the last. Soemtimes they make it past a half, othertimes not. This was one of the games that they did not.

We did very little offensively after the 1st quarter and Manuel sucked royally after the 1st quarter once again raising questions as to his consistencey.

If you disagree, don't go mental and start with the name-calling, reasonably and controllably tell me why you disagree and why you think that the O, or D, was good after the first quarter or so.

Here's what I see, 17-7 us at the half, 13-3 them in the second half with the Bears doing most of their damage in the 2nd half and our offense doing nothing. Disagree? Why? Don't just go mental here.

The Bears had four drives of 56, 57, 60, and 61 yards in the 2nd half alone in regulation. We had drives of -1, 7, 14, 28, and 37 and one FG as a result.

Is that all good? Encouraging? Apparently so to most people posting today. I see issues with it though. You really don't see any?

For a team that couldn't get consistent play from its QB last season for 2 quarters much less 3 or 4, one good quarter is a bright spot? Seriously?

A defense that gave up over 250 yards in the 2nd half doesn't concern you? Seriously?

[BuffaloRedleg]

Oh man Fletch can't wait for us to lose so he can jam it all in our faces. He is salivating at the opportunity.

The kid just won't let us enjoy one fricken victory without trolling everyone and trying to **** all over it.

It's pathetic.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Wrong better days. I didn't make a single prediction about this game, not one other than maybe in passing that I expected them to lose. Maybe, I'm not even sure I said that.

This team has a history of trying to come out of the gates swinging to prove to the world that "this season" is and will be different than the last. Soemtimes they make it past a half, othertimes not. This was one of the games that they did not.

We did very little offensively after the 1st quarter and Manuel sucked royally after the 1st quarter once again raising questions as to his consistencey.

If you disagree, don't go mental and start with the name-calling, reasonably and controllably tell me why you disagree and why you think that the O, or D, was good after the first quarter or so.

Here's what I see, 17-7 us at the half, 13-3 them in the second half with the Bears doing most of their damage in the 2nd half and our offense doing nothing. Disagree? Why? Don't just go mental here.

The Bears had four drives of 56, 57, 60, and 61 yards in the 2nd half alone in regulation. We had drives of -1, 7, 14, 28, and 37 and one FG as a result.

Is that all good? Encouraging? Apparently so to most people posting today. I see issues with it though. You really don't see any?

For a team that couldn't get consistent play from its QB last season for 2 quarters much less 3 or 4, one good quarter is a bright spot? Seriously?

A defense that gave up over 250 yards in the 2nd half doesn't concern you? Seriously?

Sure thing dude, of course they weren't perfect. Of course there are things that are disconcerting.

But isn't the fact that we won on the road encouraging? Can't you at least admit there was something to be incredibly positive about, you know, winning a game that every single person in the media and amongst fans thought we were going to lose? Doesn't that have any value to you?

What if we played near perfect football and lost, would you be more happy?

Are you expecting the team to play perfect football and win every weak or you will complain? What is your standard for not complaining and being happy?

[justasportsfan]

I also don't see us beating Detroit, I have no idea how we're going to stop their passing game, we couldn't beat one team last season ranked better than 18th in passing and Detroit was ranked 3rd in passing. San Diego was ranked 4th and Chicago 5th. I see three losses there. Houston was ranked 15th and can't possibly be much worse this season. I think that's our best chance for a win.






In trying to figure out our record and how good we are compared to last season, I'm not sure that anyone realizes that of our starting Linebacker corps, we have not one pass-oriented LB starting.

Spikes, Rivers, and Brown are all almost exclusively run-defending LBs. WTF are we going to do on passing downs, which is most plays?

We can dismiss this as being irrelevant, but it would be ridiculously remiss to not consider that in any evaluation of what our record will be this season.

We couldn't beat one single team finishing better than 18th ranked in passing last season and our pass D just got significantly worse with Kiko out and Byrd and Leonard gone.

If we go by last season's rankings, then we face the following ranked passing teams:

1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 10th (twice) the Pats who we never beat, 11th, and 15th. That's 9 games.

The other teams are Miami, who we can take two from, the Jets with whom we'll either split or drop both, Minnesota, Oakland, and KC.

:roflmao:

[trapezeus]

Oh man Fletch can't wait for us to lose so he can jam it all in our faces. He is salivating at the opportunity.

The kid just won't let us enjoy one fricken victory without trolling everyone and trying to **** all over it.

It's pathetic.

and when they lose, he'll respond to every single poster in each thread. but since he's on the wrong side today, he'll just cherry pick a few stats with no further discussion. (see his watkins thread). the bills were run focused and threw only 22 times. the other receivers were on teams that threw 34 and 35 times. and mike evans had similar numbers to watkins.

and frankly watching tampa's total confusion makes me think that maybe fletch himself could have made about 5 catches for 80 yards.

[Fletch]

I saw a bills team win in Chicago. Thats all I care. I know you're hurt when the bills win. We understand.

I guess that depends upon your perspective.

Some of us want a winning record on the season. It's understandable however that many fans, apparently most here, are satisfied with a single win.

Kinda shows how sorry this franchise is and how low some fans' standards have plunged since the days that we were any good.

I look at each game, W or L, as an indicator as to what our long-term prospects are. All I'm pointing out is why this game was no different than most of our games last season or in other recent seasons.

Did we win? Yes, clearly. We also won 6 games in each of the last three seasons too. This is likely one of however many of fewer than 7 wins we'll have this season.

Did we win by outperforming our opponent? No, clearly not.

They had more 1st-downs, twice as many in fact.

They had more 3rd-down conversions and a better rate of them.

They had almost 4 minutes more in TOP.

They had fewer than half the penalties.

They had over twice the passing yards.

They had a better Red Zone efficiency.

They outplayed us, we managed to get just enough breaks, Graham's INT and Jackson's 38 yard run in OT, to be able to A, even get to OT, and B, win it there.

Chicago played better football overall. We just won the game. Am I happy about it, sure, why not. I was excited yesterday, but after looking at the data, it hasn't shown much that we've improved. At all.

That's all. Not sure why everyone has to turn into an ******* while reading some objective information on the game. Funny thing is that no one disputes the info in any real way, because it's not disputable. All everyone does is have a menstual cycle type of reaction to it.

But hey, that's what some of us have come to know and love about forums.

I'll be happy when we do this 10 or more times in a season.

[Fletch]

and when they lose, he'll respond to every single poster in each thread. but since he's on the wrong side today, he'll just cherry pick a few stats with no further discussion.

and frankly watching tampa's total confusion makes me think that maybe fletch himself could have made about 5 catches for 80 yards.

LOL

And you don't see any hypocrisy in this statement of yours, do you?

[RedEyE]

I read a stat the other day that was jaw dropping.

Since the start of the 2003 season the Bills have lost 35 games with 5 points or less.

I think imbondz said it best yesterday - parity. The difference in this game from past games is that the Bills made either one less mistake, one better play, or a combination of the two.

Fact is no one gave this team a chance in Chicago and they found a way to win. Looking back to the start of 2003, it seems that the Bills were about 1-2 plays a game a way from winning 35 times.

So yeah, it wasn't that much different, but it was different just enough to win a football game.

No pick six in the final drive.

The defense didnt give up the big play in OT or at the regulation.

No one fumbled a kick off return furthering the momentum of the opposing team.

The coach didnt mismanage the clock and take away necessary time from the players.

. . .

[Skooby]

Wrong better days. I didn't make a single prediction about this game, not one other than maybe in passing that I expected them to lose. Maybe, I'm not even sure I said that.

This team has a history of trying to come out of the gates swinging to prove to the world that "this season" is and will be different than the last. Soemtimes they make it past a half, othertimes not. This was one of the games that they did not.

We did very little offensively after the 1st quarter and Manuel sucked royally after the 1st quarter once again raising questions as to his consistencey.

If you disagree, don't go mental and start with the name-calling, reasonably and controllably tell me why you disagree and why you think that the O, or D, was good after the first quarter or so.

Here's what I see, 17-7 us at the half, 13-3 them in the second half with the Bears doing most of their damage in the 2nd half and our offense doing nothing. Disagree? Why? Don't just go mental here.

The Bears had four drives of 56, 57, 60, and 61 yards in the 2nd half alone in regulation. We had drives of -1, 7, 14, 28, and 37 and one FG as a result.

Is that all good? Encouraging? Apparently so to most people posting today. I see issues with it though. You really don't see any?

For a team that couldn't get consistent play from its QB last season for 2 quarters much less 3 or 4, one good quarter is a bright spot? Seriously?

A defense that gave up over 250 yards in the 2nd half doesn't concern you? Seriously?

Seattle lost to St. Louis at home last season, did they give up ? Every team has games that they should play better or worse, it's just normal. There was a level of F-you from the players yesterday, this shows me instead of fighting each other their fighting their opponents (& refs). Can't really take much more away from the game except there's fight on our team, I haven't seen this in a long time.

So please stop complaining about wins, they're hard enough to get & need to be enjoyed when they happen.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I guess that depends upon your perspective.

Some of us want a winning record on the season. It's understandable however that many fans, apparently most here, are satisfied with a single win.

Kinda shows how sorry this franchise is and how low some fans' standards have plunged since the days that we were any good.

I look at each game, W or L, as an indicator as to what our long-term prospects are. All I'm pointing out is why this game was no different than most of our games last season or in other recent seasons.

Did we win? Yes, clearly. We also won 6 games in each of the last three seasons too. This is likely one of however many of fewer than 7 wins we'll have this season.

Did we win by outperforming our opponent? No, clearly not.

They had more 1st-downs, twice as many in fact.

They had more 3rd-down conversions and a better rate of them.

They had almost 4 minutes more in TOP.

They had fewer than half the penalties.

They had over twice the passing yards.

They had a better Red Zone efficiency.

They outplayed us, we managed to get just enough breaks, Graham's INT and Jackson's 38 yard run in OT, to be able to A, even get to OT, and B, win it there.

Chicago played better football overall. We just won the game. Am I happy about it, sure, why not. I was excited yesterday, but after looking at the data, it hasn't shown much that we've improved. At all.

That's all. Not sure why everyone has to turn into an ******* while reading some objective information on the game. Funny thing is that no one disputes the info in any real way, because it's not disputable. All everyone does is have a menstual cycle type of reaction to it.

But hey, that's what some of us have come to know and love about forums.

I'll be happy when we do this 10 or more times in a season.

HAHAHA what? How do you possibly win without outperforming your opponent? What does that even mean????

You are throwing a lot of stats out there, but guess what, the only stats that matter are POINTS. You call those breaks, but they aren't. They are good plays. That's what teams do, they play hard and have good plays. Only you would make them into a negative.

Good try though.

[Fletch]

:roflmao:

LOL

What's even funnier is that in 6 more weeks I doubt we'll be seeing your little laughing man.

I'll be you that just about everyone is mirroring my sentiments on this team come late October.

That's the most hysterical part about this.

- - - Updated - - -

Gotta run, I've had enough laughs for a morning.

[Bill Cody]

I'll be happy when we do this 10 or more times in a season.

No you won't

[justasportsfan]

They had more 1st-downs, twice as many in fact. we had more points at the end of the game.


They had more 3rd-down conversions and a better rate of them. we scored more points


They had almost 4 minutes more in TOP. we scored more points


They had fewer than half the penalties. we scored more points


They had over twice the passing yards. we scored more points


They had a better Red Zone efficiency. we scored more points


They outplayed us, we managed to get just enough breaks, Graham's INT and Jackson's 38 yard run in OT, to be able to A, even get to OT, and B, win it there. we scored more points


Chicago played better football overall. We just won the game. .Duh! the goal is not to look better but to win the game. I'm glad you're happy the the Bears had a MORAL VICTORY :snicker:

[Fletch]

No you won't

Oh really, thanks for letting me know how I'll feel.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

LOL

What's even funnier is that in 6 more weeks I doubt we'll be seeing your little laughing man.

I'll be you that just about everyone is mirroring my sentiments on this team come late October.

That's the most hysterical part about this.

- - - Updated - - -

Gotta run, I've had enough laughs for a morning.

I confess, I am confused. Maybe you can help me out? Do you actually want us to lose? I mean do you value being right over the Bills winning? What kind of fan are you?

[Fletch]

we had more points at the end of the game.

we scored more points

we scored more points

we scored more points

we scored more points

we scored more points

we scored more points

Duh! the goal is not to look better but to win the game. I'm glad you're happy the the Bears had a MORAL VICTORY :snicker:

Some people are just brighter than others and catch on more quickly. Sorry to see that you're in that latter group.

[justasportsfan]

Gotta run, I've had enough laughs for a morning.
translation : " My butt hurts, I'm out"

[BuffaloRedleg]

What is funny, is that Fletchyboy keeps throwing out stats. That's fine, stats are interesting. But they only matter insofar as they affect the score of the game. You can have 100000 yards rushing but if you don't score then who cares?

The stats he keeps presenting mean nothing alone. That is what he doesn't understand. If you keep throwing out stats you can make any point you want, which is what he is doing.

Moving the ball through the air and ground, interceptions, red zone efficiency etc are not an end but a means to an end---- to score points. This is so simple that I must assume that Fletch is just trolling.

[justasportsfan]

Some people are just brighter than others and catch on more quickly. Sorry to see that you're in that latter group.

I agree, you have yet to catch on that 23 > 20 .

[BuffaloRedleg]

The great thing is that if the Bills played fantastic and lost, he'd be saying well none of it matters except for wins. What a joke.

[GreedoII]

For starters Chicago's D does not appear to be very good. Last season they ranked dead f'n last in rushing D and had a very average pass D despite allowing 3 fewer pass TDs than we did.

Contrasted with last season though:

4 of 12 on 3rd-down conversions, three of them in the 1st quarter.

15 total 1st-downs, 29 for Chicago.

9 penalties for 108 yards

28 min. TOP

Red Zone efficiency, 50%

Manuel still playing like Manuel. Can't show up for more than a quarter. 3 of his 4 3rd-down conversions were in the 1st Quarter as were nearly half of his passing yards.

He was 9 of 14 for 89 yards in quarters 2 - 4. Big yip!

Spiller showed nothing. Other than two big running plays the running game yielded little and no 3rd-down conversions.

The team still didn't show that it could generate drives. We had two over 40 yards.

Sorry, I'm seeing absolutely nothing different than last season. I'm not going to attempt to delude myself into thinking that I did.

Biggest diff is they won the game? It's not easy to go on the road and pull out wins in the NFL so take it while you can. The best teams don't always blow people the hell out on the road. Man you're a dumb ass

[Generalissimus Gibby]

LOL

What's even funnier is that in 6 more weeks I doubt we'll be seeing your little laughing man.

I'll be you that just about everyone is mirroring my sentiments on this team come late October.

That's the most hysterical part about this.

- - - Updated - - -

Gotta run, I've had enough laughs for a morning.


Some people are just brighter than others and catch on more quickly. Sorry to see that you're in that latter group.

Why are you here? Isn't there anything you liked about yesterday? Lets see we got two redzone TDs, EJ didn't absolutely **** us over in that game, we didn't fall apart when we fell behind early, ordinarily this team goes on to lose after imploding like we did in the second half. We had three runners with great numbers. EJ's passing numbers weren't half bad, and the D got stops when it needed it the most. Oh and we WON. I will take a win be it 50 to 0 or 23 to 20.

[Fletch]

What is funny, is that Fletchyboy keeps throwing out stats. That's fine, stats are interesting. But they only matter insofar as they affect the score of the game. You can have 100000 yards rushing but if you don't score then who cares?

The stats he keeps presenting mean nothing alone. That is what he doesn't understand. If you keep throwing out stats you can make any point you want, which is what he is doing.

Moving the ball through the air and ground, interceptions, red zone efficiency etc are not an end but a means to an end---- to score points. This is so simple that I must assume that Fletch is just trolling.

See, some people understand that you don't win many games by being outplayed regularly.

You'll catch on too at some point. I'm sure you'll stuff it in your back pocket at the start of every season again like you may have done now.

What's funny about this whole thing is that we managed to log a W, but the turnaround in opinions by October or November of posters such as yourself, which seem to be the vast majority today, is going to once again be iconic. It'll be bi-polar city in not too long.

In the interim, good to see so many people wanting to actually break down and discuss football facts.

Duhhh, gee George, we got a Win. We're good, aren't we George.

[justasportsfan]

Why are you here? Isn't there anything you liked about yesterday? Lets see we got two redzone TDs, EJ didn't absolutely **** us over in that game, we didn't fall apart when we fell behind early, ordinarily this team goes on to lose after imploding like we did in the second half. We had three runners with great numbers. EJ's passing numbers weren't half bad, and the D got stops when it needed it the most. Oh and we WON. I will take a win be it 50 to 0 or 23 to 20.
He didn't like it that the bills won.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

He didn't like it that the bills won.

strange response on his part . . . . for a Bills fan. I know I trashed this team before and during yesterday's game, but well they put up and so I shut up. Fletch could do the same.

[Bill Cody]

Some people are just brighter than others and catch on more quickly. Sorry to see that you're in that latter group.

And some are tards

[Albany,n.y.]

For starters Chicago's D does not appear to be very good. Last season they ranked dead f'n last in rushing D and had a very average pass D despite allowing 3 fewer pass TDs than we did.

Contrasted with last season though:

4 of 12 on 3rd-down conversions, three of them in the 1st quarter.

15 total 1st-downs, 29 for Chicago.

9 penalties for 108 yards

28 min. TOP

Red Zone efficiency, 50%

Manuel still playing like Manuel. Can't show up for more than a quarter. 3 of his 4 3rd-down conversions were in the 1st Quarter as were nearly half of his passing yards.

He was 9 of 14 for 89 yards in quarters 2 - 4. Big yip!

Spiller showed nothing. Other than two big running plays the running game yielded little and no 3rd-down conversions.

The team still didn't show that it could generate drives. We had two over 40 yards.

Sorry, I'm seeing absolutely nothing different than last season. I'm not going to attempt to delude myself into thinking that I did.

It's a good thing blind people can type, it gives you something to fill your day.

[Dying_-2-_Live]

I am very happy to be starting the season out 1-0 but I do agree with Fletch to a certain point. Do you think we win this game without the Brandon Marshall fumble or without kyle Williams being in the right place at the right time? We made 1 or 2 plays that pulled out the win. Without those 1 or 2 plays, we would be kicking ourselves in the rear saying Hackett's conservative playcalling cost us the game, or the inability to contain Forte cost the game. Im going to enjoy the win, and hope for progress throughout the season, but I did not see a playoff team on the field yesterday.

Lets not celebrate too long though, we have an apparently tough Miami team coming to town. Its gonna be another grind to pull this one out.

[justasportsfan]

strange response on his part . . . . for a Bills fan. I know I trashed this team before and during yesterday's game, but well they put up and so I shut up. Fletch could do the same.


I think Fletch is really Feelthepain. Pretending to be a bills fan.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Oh, and Fletch, to be fair, this team has only played one game this year. As such I am not yet talking Superbowl, homefield advantage, division title, playoffs, winning record, or better or worse than last year. Quite simply, the sample size is not yet large enough for me to make a determination. Do we need some work? Yes. Our Pass D was --three picks and a sack aside -- scary. However, we by and large shut down the bears Running game. We won the turnover battle, dominated in the kicking and field position game, and beat a playoff calibre team. Ultimately, we played well enough to win on the road against a very good ball club and we are 1-0. We overcame mistakes and set ourselves up to win.

[trapezeus]

fletch you act like every one of us thinks the bills are destined to be a playoff team. Who knows. there weren't any real warts or sense that we got luck.

a good d should make game changing plays. we did.
A good o should take advantage of Turnovers. we did. we scored 13 points off them instead of relying on our usual FGs.

bills offense needs to be better, bills d needs to be better. teams will be better than that. but last year, we would have watched the bills piss that game away. and the talk would be about squandering 10 point lead and how the refs jobbed us. the refs still jobbed us, but we won. that's kind of a sign of improvement.

i don't think the team has more than 5-7 wins in them. but i'm happy to be proven wrong. but you seem like you are going ot be offended if they put up a 10-6 season.

[JohnnyGold]

See, some people understand that you don't win many games by being outplayed regularly.

You'll catch on too at some point. I'm sure you'll stuff it in your back pocket at the start of every season again like you may have done now.

What's funny about this whole thing is that we managed to log a W, but the turnaround in opinions by October or November of posters such as yourself, which seem to be the vast majority today, is going to once again be iconic. It'll be bi-polar city in not too long.

In the interim, good to see so many people wanting to actually break down and discuss football facts.

Duhhh, gee George, we got a Win. We're good, aren't we George.

I actually agree with you--99% of the way on this issue.

The fact is, the Bills can't play like this every week and expect to win enough football games to make the playoffs. And the Bears D is suspect, for sure. With that being said though, any advantages the Bills may have had over the Bears were pretty much nullified by the fact that we were playing on the road against a team that (while average) was certainly better than us last year, and pegged to be much better than us this year.

To me though, the most encouraging part of yesterday were 2 specific bounces:
Freddy muffing a punt and having it bounce right back into his numbers
and on the fumble in the first half where it bounced right into our guy's hands, and he rumbled for 30 yards into Bears territory.

In years gone by, both of those would have resulted in plays going the Bears way... recovering that punt, and their fumble bouncing helplessly out of bounds as a linebacker tried to make "the right" play and fall on top of it.

There have been years (last year included) where the balls just didn't bounce our way. We outplayed NE in week 1 last season... we SHOULD have won that game. We SHOULD have beat the falcons. We SHOULD have beat the Jets week 3. And on and on and on through the years.

For whatever reason, teams like the Bills lose those games, while teams like the Patriots win those games. Maybe it's just simply a matter of drafting winning players from winning programs and letting them play to win on the field. So that way, when things don't go your way (like yesterday), you can still get a break, still pull out a victory, even when it looks like the game is hopelessly slipping away.

Rather than taking offense at the fact that the Bills won a game that they got outperformed in, take solace in the fact that they stole that win, and hope they outperform opponents more often this year!

[Fletch]

Why are you here? Isn't there anything you liked about yesterday? Lets see we got two redzone TDs, EJ didn't absolutely **** us over in that game, we didn't fall apart when we fell behind early, ordinarily this team goes on to lose after imploding like we did in the second half. We had three runners with great numbers. EJ's passing numbers weren't half bad, and the D got stops when it needed it the most. Oh and we WON. I will take a win be it 50 to 0 or 23 to 20.

Yes, I enjoyed the win. You'd never know it because everyone's putting words in my mouth.

But to suggest that there was more to like than to dislike is absurd. If we play like that every week we're going to be no better than 6-10 again.

We were outplayed. We played well for one quarter offensively, one MS3TK, and for one half, the 1st half, defensively! Do you dispute that?

You say two Red Zone TDs? So what? Is that a hallmark for this team? Maybe for you, not for me. We were a below average 50% in RZ efficiency. If we had scored once more in the RZ maybe the game wouldn't have needed to go to OT.

We did implode in the second half, just not enough to force a loss. The Bears hung over 250 yards of offense on us, IN THE SECOND HALF, and our own offense could get only 85 yards of total offense on five drives. That's 17 yards per drive.

You think that was good? Seriously?

Everyone jumps on these posts, but you just hit the nail squarely on the head while suggesting the complete opposite of what you posted. We did collapse in the second half, the Bears just didn't capitalize, but it was hardly us that prevented it.

The Bears had 17 1st-downs in the 2nd half, that's more than we had all game long.

My biggest concern is that we played with a glaring lack of consistency last season, it was arguably the single biggest reason why we sucked. But that didn't change yesterday. Yesterday's game was every bit as inconsistent, from Manuel to the D to the O in general, as any game was last season. Just because we came away with the W doesn't change that. Jumping around as if starting off the season going 1-0 has any significant meaning at all is childish. Especially for us Bills fans who've seen this play out far too many times without the desired results.

So want to discuss the particulars, I'm happy to. If all you want to do is make fun of me, have at it, I will have the last laugh with the homers here, at least with those making more an issue out of me than of the team, but that's not going to change how the team plays. Feel free to try to come and put a bullet in my head, it's not going to change the facts one bit.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I am very happy to be starting the season out 1-0 but I do agree with Fletch to a certain point. Do you think we win this game without the Brandon Marshall fumble or without kyle Williams being in the right place at the right time? We made 1 or 2 plays that pulled out the win. Without those 1 or 2 plays, we would be kicking ourselves in the rear saying Hackett's conservative playcalling cost us the game, or the inability to contain Forte cost the game. Im going to enjoy the win, and hope for progress throughout the season, but I did not see a playoff team on the field yesterday.

Lets not celebrate too long though, we have an apparently tough Miami team coming to town. Its gonna be another grind to pull this one out.

I am only going to comment on the bold here. SO MUCH OF FOOTBALL is decided by a handful of plays, especially the close games. You put yourself in the right position to make those plays and you capitalize on your opponent's mistakes you will generally win. We did. Again, we did plenty that shows we need work. However, we also did plenty that shows me that we are off to a good start. Hopefully, we learn the right lessons.

[Forward_Lateral]

They won, on the road, in a place the franchise has never won before.

There is no reason to try to find things to gripe about. Do us all a favor and stop posting.

Thanks

The Zoners

[Dying_-2-_Live]

I am only going to comment on the bold here. SO MUCH OF FOOTBALL is decided by a handful of plays, especially the close games. You put yourself in the right position to make those plays and you capitalize on your opponent's mistakes you will generally win. We did. Again, we did plenty that shows we need work. However, we also did plenty that shows me that we are off to a good start. Hopefully, we learn the right lessons.

You are right, though i agree that i did not see a playoff team yesterday. Im celebrating just like everyone else and would not start a thread to deflate everyone either.

[ServoBillieves]

Sure thing dude, of course they weren't perfect. Of course there are things that are disconcerting.

But isn't the fact that we won on the road encouraging? Can't you at least admit there was something to be incredibly positive about, you know, winning a game that every single person in the media and amongst fans thought we were going to lose? Doesn't that have any value to you?

What if we played near perfect football and lost, would you be more happy?

Are you expecting the team to play perfect football and win every weak or you will complain? What is your standard for not complaining and being happy?

EJ Could put up 300+ and 2 TD's a game 5 games in a row and it would be a "fluke". Simply by me stating this I will get a repost saying "even if that did happen (which it never will because EJ is terrible, has he ever even come close? Do you watch him play? Marrone is a bad coach, watch the game noob) he looked bad and is going back to his old ways". We would see doom and gloom the second he had a bad game. Negative people or just downright "trolls" (I hate that word) will ALWAYS have a reason to defeat a positive.

Did you see the mental gymnastics? "If you take away those big runs... non-sustained drives yada yada." The beauty of NFL football and games like we witnessed yesterday are that after the outcome, statistics don't matter except for your Fantasy Football team. If you're trying to look in to your crystal ball to make sure you aren't butt hurt the rest of the year, you're doing exactly what you did in the preseason; going off of the past.

Fletch, and everyone else I would assume, just wants consistency. The separation is even if there is no consistency, those big plays that go by the wayside or that are taken out for arguments sake, if those continue to happen and set us up for success, it adds numbers in the W column. Without Graham's interception, you're looking at points for the Bears O: without KW's interception, probably points for the Bears. Mc-Can't-Catch-A-Pass-That-Hits-Him-Kelvin's FF? A sustained drive for the Bears with points. EJ's interception cost us points, and Chandler's block to finish off a play that is apparently illegal also did. The score is still if I'm reading it correctly 23-20.

I hate Cris Collinsworth, and my push to have him euthanized was heavily influenced by his comments on Thursday: "I played the '85 Bears in '86."

It's not the same team. Tendencies may be similar. But this is not the same team. The stats, record, whatever could be the same, but it's not the same team. We could go 16-0, but after that 1 loss, a negative person will spin that in to "Well, we didn't win the Super Bowl, same old Bills."

Enjoy the win, even if others don't.

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't think most people are unwilling to look at a game the team loses and point out that there are things they need to do better, just as there is nothing wrong with looking at a loss and pointing out what went well. Neither outcome means that there were not things to take out of the game that run counter to the outcome.

But the problem is when you look at a win and refuse to point out anything that went well. One of the Bills biggest problem in recent times was that they did not make the final plays needed to get a close win. They let the other team do that. But this week they made those plays. Kyle Willaims Int. Jackson's run. EJ's pass to Mike Williams in OT. Corey Graham's plays in OT and the 4th quarter.

Will that continue? I have no idea and really none of us do. But the line between winning and losing in the NFL is often a fine line, where only a few plays can make a huge difference. This week the Bills made those plays and the Bears did not.

So by all means, point out what they need to improve on. But let's not act like there is no difference in the way the team played this week as compared to last year. Of course it is only one week and they can lose a bunch of games the rest of the year.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying a win and acknowledging that not everything is a negative.

[Forward_Lateral]

I don't think most people are unwilling to look at a game the team loses and point out that there are things they need to do better, just as there is nothing wrong with looking at a loss and pointing out what went well. Neither outcome means that there were not things to take out of the game that run counter to the outcome.

But the problem is when you look at a win and refuse to point out anything that went well. One of the Bills biggest problem in recent times was that they did not make the final plays needed to get a close win. They let the other team do that. But this week they made those plays. Kyle Willaims Int. Jackson's run. EJ's pass to Mike Williams in OT. Corey Graham's plays in OT and the 4th quarter.

Will that continue? I have no idea and really none of us do. But the line between winning and losing in the NFL is often a fine line, where only a few plays can make a huge difference. This week the Bills made those plays and the Bears did not.

So by all means, point out what they need to improve on. But let's not act like there is no difference in the way the team played this week as compared to last year. Of course it is only one week and they can lose a bunch of games the rest of the year.

There is nothing wrong with enjoying a win and acknowledging that not everything is a negative.

:bf1:

[Novacane]

I think Fletch is really Feelthepain. Pretending to be a bills fan.


He's doing a really poor job at pretending!

[Fletch]

fletch you act like every one of us thinks the bills are destined to be a playoff team. Who knows. there weren't any real warts or sense that we got luck.

a good d should make game changing plays. we did.
A good o should take advantage of Turnovers. we did. we scored 13 points off them instead of relying on our usual FGs.

bills offense needs to be better, bills d needs to be better. teams will be better than that. but last year, we would have watched the bills piss that game away. and the talk would be about squandering 10 point lead and how the refs jobbed us. the refs still jobbed us, but we won. that's kind of a sign of improvement.

i don't think the team has more than 5-7 wins in them. but i'm happy to be proven wrong. but you seem like you are going ot be offended if they put up a 10-6 season.

What am I supposed to think trap when all I do is post my objective thoughts on this team and how it played, using more facts than the sum total in any given thread otherwise, and people A, call me names, B, insist that I'm not a real fan, C, didn't enjoy the win in isolation, D, label me a troll, E, do a 180 on their very own opinions of just days ago, F, continually slam me as if what I offer up for discussion is irrelevant with implications, contrary to what you say, that this team has finally turned a corner, etc.?

Few people here seem to want to discuss this team rationally. It's like a room full of drunken monkeys when we win one game. I know that we're all starved for success here in Buffalo, but damn, just damn, projecting such as this after a single win like this one, it's ridiculous.

I would **** my pants in glee if we put up a 10-6 season. You read far too much of what others say about me. I cannot help you with that. If I want to know what you think I'll come to you and ask directly, you know that. I may even PM you like I've done for a number of others. Here though everyone seems to want to define me and everyone listens to what others say about me. I find it amusing and can play off of it and even enjoy doing so, but it's far from the truth.

But you're wrong, several posters here are projecting this as more than simply a win. Otherwise, what's the big F'n deal? So, we won a game. We won 6 of them in each of the last three seasons. Some people here act as if this is the first en route to a 10-6 record. I don't see how given how we actually played yesterday.

Watkins didn't even do anything. Neither did Williams. Spiller sucked. The D collapsed in the 2nd half and the O folded until OT. The D was not as advertised against the run, the Bears just didn't run that much.

Those are the facts.

I'm reacting to the harsh, childish, taken out of context, and mean-spirited comments on my comments. It says more about the posting mentality in this forum than it does about me.

If you want to know what I think, try asking me, not listening to everyone with bipolar disorder about what they say about me when their opinions come November are likely going to make mine look tame with mine remaining consistent and theirs all doing a 180.

I'll be ****in' tickled if we're 10-6 this season. In fact, if I thought that anyone here was actually worth hanging out with after the **** that they put me through, I'd offer to take everyone here out to a bar in Buffalo somewhere and by drinks all around for an entire evening if we did finish 10-6.

At the same time I'll be stunned if we are a game better than 6-10 this season. Between Manuel's play, the seeming lack of improvement of the run D, the collapse of the D overall in the 2nd half, the complete inability of Manuel to show up after the 1st quarter, what should obviously be related coaching, the lack of the offense to be able to generate 1st-downs and convert 3rd's, the seeming weakness of the pass D, and a few other things, I'm very sorry if my expectations for this season are not overcome with changes to my estimates prior to yesterday.

I see no difference, or no significant difference except that our pass D is obviously weaker. People can talk about Marrone and coaching all that they want, there's nothing to see here if you ask me.

[Fletch]

I don't think most people are unwilling to look at a game the team loses and point out that there are things they need to do better, just as there is nothing wrong with looking at a loss and pointing out what went well. Neither outcome means that there were not things to take out of the game that run counter to the outcome.

But the problem is when you look at a win and refuse to point out anything that went well.

Let me ask you Lechter, in your opinion, what were the key differences between how we played on average last season and how we played yesterday?

Take some time to answer that and PM me when you're finished, I'd like to read it.

Do you think that Manuel played better? Why or why not?

How about the D? As good as advertised overall? Why or why not?

How about Watkins? Impressive?

Williams? Same there?

Look at the team stats for the game and tell me what impressed you.

How about consistency? Do you see the team having been consistent in its play throughout the game, or do you see a difference either by quarter or by half or whatever, that shows you something different?

It's funny, I post something and people jump on me for "projecting how good we're going to be, or not," based on one game when that's not what I'm even doing. Then in other threads and other posts people are talking about how Marrone finally has control, how EJ's taking that next step, how the D has improved by leaps and bounds (after allowing over 400 yards and 4.8 ypc which would have been good for 31st last season), how the offense has exploded despite the fact that it could only produce on sustained drive resulting in a TD, and a bunch of other things.

Quit talking about me and discuss the team and the facts surrounding the win. Seriously, are the lives of some people so boring that they need to waste them on coming down on me like a ton of bricks? How sad.



So by all means, point out what they need to improve on. But let's not act like there is no difference in the way the team played this week as compared to last year.

OK, go ahead, point out the things that they need to improve on. I've listed a number of them that are no different than last season's.

The ones acting like they don't need to improve on anything are the ones taking issue with the things that I've pointed out are no different than last season, some of which included in this post.

So was there a big difference from yesterday and last season? What was it? I'm not seeing it. Help me, factually, by pointing out those things.

[Novacane]

Few people here seem to want to discuss this team rationally.
.

You are not paying attention if you really think that. I need to see a lot more before I start talking 10-6. We saw the same things you pointed out and other than you thinking EJ did nothing good I agree with most of your gripes. They overcome those and won though. That's improvement. Why can't you say anything positive about the game?

[Novacane]

It's funny, I post something and people jump on me for "projecting how good we're going to be, or not," based on one game when that's not what I'm even doing. Then in other threads and other posts people are talking about how Marrone finally has control, how EJ's taking that next step, how the D has improved by leaps and bounds (after allowing over 400 yards and 4.8 ypc which would have been good for 31st last season), how the offense has exploded despite the fact that it could only produce on sustained drive resulting in a TD, and a bunch of other things.

Quit talking about me and discuss the team and the facts surrounding the win. Seriously, are the lives of some people so boring that they need to waste them on coming down on me like a ton of bricks? How sad.

Can you please link me to the thread where anyone said EJ is taking the next step and our defense improving leaps and bounds? I missed them.

[better days]

Can you please link me to the thread where anyone said EJ is taking the next step and our defense improving leaps and bounds? I missed them.

Fletch must be taking lessons form OpIv........."Quit talking about me"

[Fletch]

What is funny, is that Fletchyboy keeps throwing out stats. That's fine, stats are interesting. But they only matter insofar as they affect the score of the game. You can have 100000 yards rushing but if you don't score then who cares?

The stats he keeps presenting mean nothing alone. That is what he doesn't understand. If you keep throwing out stats you can make any point you want, which is what he is doing.

Moving the ball through the air and ground, interceptions, red zone efficiency etc are not an end but a means to an end---- to score points. This is so simple that I must assume that Fletch is just trolling.

Again, some people are simply more intelligent than others and understand how to project a big picture.

[Fletch]

Can you please link me to the thread where anyone said EJ is taking the next step and our defense improving leaps and bounds? I missed them.

I didn't miss them, I'm also not going to waste my time going back to look for them.

That's not the issue though, is it. No one replies in any sensible or objective way to my points. You all act like a bunch of children.

[Novacane]

I didn't miss them, I'm also not going to waste my time going back to look for them.

That's not the issue though, is it. No one replies in any sensible or objective way to my points. You all act like a bunch of children.


No one said that. I've read every thread about yesterdays game.

[Novacane]

I didn't miss them, I'm also not going to waste my time going back to look for them.

That's not the issue though, is it. No one replies in any sensible or objective way to my points. You all act like a bunch of children.


Several people have said they see the some of the same issues you posted about.

[Dr. Who]

I didn't miss them, I'm also not going to waste my time going back to look for them.

That's not the issue though, is it. No one replies in any sensible or objective way to my points. You all act like a bunch of children.

I hope the Bills continue to win so I can see how far you will take this psychosis of yours.

[cookie G]

Ok sweetie, this is really becoming unhealthy. Seriously.

And the unhealthiness isn't so much the negativity...but it is becoming pretty obvious that you don't really watch football...you read about it.

That is why we see so much box score analysis in your posts, but rarely a "Did you see what so and so did on that play?"

I imagine its an affliction for frustrated fantasy football managers....or teenagers who were picked on quite a bit.

But I've seen this disease before..especially recently. The bar I watched the game yesterday had about 150 TV's...every game on multiple screens...and people are bringing in their laptops...or spending their entire afternoon on their smartphones...getting stupid text updates on their fantasy teams. It makes you want to crack a bottle over their head or something and scream.."Hey, WATCH the game...ANY game!".

You aren't alone in this affliction...but that doesn't make it healthy.

Watch the games...not the box scores. Because you are missing out on the whole point of the game itself. It is a visually incredible experience. And you can't get it from number crunching.

So here's what I want you to do..

No reading ANY box score until after the bye week. That means....none.

-Take footballoutsiders.com and profootballfocus.com off of your favs. Delete them for now. Good sites...but not what you need right now.

-Your fantasy teams? let 'em go.. forfeit them ...give 'em to someone else. You won't miss it nearly as much as you think. And what you will gain will more than make up for it.

-If you can...get the NFL All-22 service or whatever it is called (I need to get that myself)...breakdowns of plays, different angles..kind of what coaches do. If you are going to read an article...find something from someone like

-DVR a few games and WATCH them....hit the rewind button a few times and focus on a different battle each time.

Most importantly...enjoy the game...

We can get you through this. We might ahve to drag your nose out of the stat book from time to time...but that's to be expected.

With a little help from the board and a commitment from you...we can get you back on the path of being a football fan.

[streetkings01]

You mad bruh?

[Downinfloflo]

If the Bills would have lost yesterdays overtime game, It would have been a disaster to the franchise.

[Fletch]

If the Bills would have lost yesterdays overtime game, It would have been a disaster to the franchise.

This franchise is already in disaster mode. I mean how can it possibly get any worse?

Seriously, how can it get any worse?

Well, OK, no one could bid on the team I supposed, but that's not going to happen.

This is about as low as you can get as a professional sports franchise, where we are right now.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Again, some people are simply more intelligent than others and understand how to project a big picture.

But that's the thing, you aren't seeing the big picture.

The big picture is that we won. That the evaluation of a performance should not be based on its parts but by the sum of its parts.

You are looking at the little picture, and only the negative parts of the picture at that.

The big picture is that we found a way to win. That has value, more value than any stat you provided.

[Fletch]

What is funny, is that Fletchyboy keeps throwing out stats. That's fine, stats are interesting. But they only matter insofar as they affect the score of the game. You can have 100000 yards rushing but if you don't score then who cares?

The stats he keeps presenting mean nothing alone. That is what he doesn't understand. If you keep throwing out stats you can make any point you want, which is what he is doing.

Moving the ball through the air and ground, interceptions, red zone efficiency etc are not an end but a means to an end---- to score points. This is so simple that I must assume that Fletch is just trolling.

The stats are not alone RedLeg. There's a lot of other stuff with them, like comparisons to last season.

Do you take issue with any of them, or are you agreeing that they're valid and just *****ing for *****ing's sake? Seems like that's the going thing here, everyone says, despite statements to the contrary, that on one's disagreeing with me, yet everyone seems to be compelled to slam me personally.

So are my points and "statistics" valid, or not? I know you probably won't answer, you'll just wait for the next opportunity to offer up nothing to the contrary and slam me.

Just thought I'd try. No harm in trying. Oh wait, ...

- - - Updated - - -


But that's the thing, you aren't seeing the big picture.

The big picture is that we won.

LOL

OK Einstein

[Downinfloflo]

The negative from yesterday...

The Bills still don't have an NFL QB that can lead them down the field.

The defense handed him some real nice field position.

The Bills secondary got TORCHED!!!

The Bears #1 and #2 WR's got hurt during the game so they were not 100%...Still got torched.

[HAMMER]

So Felch sees it as glass half empty, shocker.

I see it as half full, it is likely a we have a buyer interested in keeping the team in B-Lo and has the money to help build a new stadium. Our current stadium was revamped and includes bigger gates for easier entry, better A/V systems, more bathrooms, and more places to buy beer. Winning.

We have a GM that is doing a very good job, our roster depth is far better than in years past. Do you think that the Pats missed Spikes yesterday?

Anyways, there are some unreachable people here that want to wallow in their miserable lives, that can't be changed by anything.

[BuffaloRedleg]

The stats are not alone RedLeg. There's a lot of other stuff with them, like comparisons to last season.

Do you take issue with any of them, or are you agreeing that they're valid and just *****ing for *****ing's sake? Seems like that's the going thing here, everyone says, despite statements to the contrary, that on one's disagreeing with me, yet everyone seems to be compelled to slam me personally.

So are my points and "statistics" valid, or not? I know you probably won't answer, you'll just wait for the next opportunity to offer up nothing to the contrary and slam me.

Just thought I'd try. No harm in trying. Oh wait, ...

- - - Updated - - -



LOL

OK Einstein

Dude I don't take any issue with the facts you provided. They are stats, they can't be argued with. Nobody is arguing with you about them because they can't be argued against.

But although I agree that 2 and 2 are both numbers and in fact exist, that doesn't mean that I agree that 2 plus 2 equals 5. You are just throwing out stats and saying "don't get too excited." Well great, that is real profound.

I believe the Bills showed signs of progress when looking at the game as a sum of parts. I was happy with the overall performance.

Comparing to last season is interesting but it by no means proves anything. Last time I checked, we lost that first game as well. This time we won, but you refuse to acknowledge that important difference.

- - - Updated - - -


The negative from yesterday...

The Bills still don't have an NFL QB that can lead them down the field.

The defense handed him some real nice field position.

The Bills secondary got TORCHED!!!

The Bears #1 and #2 WR's got hurt during the game so they were not 100%...Still got torched.

Come on pathetic troll you can do better than that. At least Fletch is trying to disguise it.

[Downinfloflo]

Dude I don't take any issue with the facts you provided. They are stats, they can't be argued with. Nobody is arguing with you about them because they can't be argued against.

But although I agree that 2 and 2 are both numbers and in fact exist, that doesn't mean that I agree that 2 plus 2 equals 5. You are just throwing out stats and saying "don't get too excited." Well great, that is real profound.

I believe the Bills showed signs of progress when looking at the game as a sum of parts. I was happy with the overall performance.

Comparing to last season is interesting but it by no means proves anything. Last time I checked, we lost that first game as well. This time we won, but you refuse to acknowledge that important difference.

- - - Updated - - -



Come on pathetic troll you can do better than that. At least Fletch is trying to disguise it.

The land of make believe gives you comfort, I understand that, That don;t mean the rest of us try to hide from reality just because it feels good for you. ;)

[BillsOwnAll]

They had more 1st-downs, twice as many in fact.

They had more 3rd-down conversions and a better rate of them.

They had almost 4 minutes more in TOP.

They had fewer than half the penalties.

They had over twice the passing yards.

They had a better Red Zone efficiency.


As any great coach always would agree with. The only stats that are relevant to the outcome of the game are


"Win the TO battle"

"run the ball. Stop the run"

So you can nit pick 100 other stats that we happen to have done worse in but... We won the score stats...The TO stat and the Rushing stat. Why are you ignoring this?

Also noone is saying the bills are super bowl favorites. Winning on the road against a playoff caliber team in OT will do wonders with the team "learning how to win" which we havent been that good at in the recent past. If the bills win the close games like this they will have a good season.

[Fletch]

As any great coach always would agree with. The only stats that are relevant to the outcome of the game are


"Win the TO battle"

"run the ball. Stop the run"

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Those coach's points are dated. Today it's stop the pass. 15 years ago and earlier it was stop the run.

We didn't do that.

We did win the TO battle, but that's unusual for us and cannot be game-planned in, you have to agree with that.

I'm not sure we stopped the run while allowing 4.8 ypc. The Bears had to throw so their runs were limited, but that's good for bottom-dwelling status if it doesn't improve. Also, teams are not often going to be behind us like the Bears were yesterday this season.

Do you think that allowing 4.8 ypc is good?

[better days]

As any great coach always would agree with. The only stats that are relevant to the outcome of the game are


"Win the TO battle"

"run the ball. Stop the run"

So you can nit pick 100 other stats that we happen to have done worse in but... We won the score stats...The TO stat and the Rushing stat. Why are you ignoring this?

Also noone is saying the bills are super bowl favorites. Winning on the road against a playoff caliber team in OT will do wonders with the team "learning how to win" which we havent been that good at in the recent past. If the bills win the close games like this they will have a good season.

And Jim Schwartz has said the only stats he is concerned about with his defense is points allowed.

He said he doesn't give a damn about yards, just points.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Those coach's points are dated. Today it's stop the pass. 15 years ago and earlier it was stop the run.

We didn't do that.

We did win the TO battle, but that's unusual for us and cannot be game-planned in, you have to agree with that.

I'm not sure we stopped the run while allowing 4.8 ypc. The Bears had to throw so their runs were limited, but that's good for bottom-dwelling status if it doesn't improve. Also, teams are not often going to be behind us like the Bears were yesterday this season.

Do you think that allowing 4.8 ypc is good?

No it isn't good, but that is because we spent our time stopping the pass. We held the best WR combo back pretty damn well (yes I now Jeffery got banged up). With a team as good as Chicago on offense you have to pick your poison, not every team out there is that talented on offense.

[BillsOwnAll]

I don't think you know what you're talking about. Those coach's points are dated. Today it's stop the pass. 15 years ago and earlier it was stop the run.

We didn't do that.

We did win the TO battle, but that's unusual for us and cannot be game-planned in, you have to agree with that.

I'm not sure we stopped the run while allowing 4.8 ypc. The Bears had to throw so their runs were limited, but that's good for bottom-dwelling status if it doesn't improve. Also, teams are not often going to be behind us like the Bears were yesterday this season.

Do you think that allowing 4.8 ypc is good?

Ehhh i think the playoffs still prove that a better defense wins over a better offense still. Bears offense is way better then you're giving them credit for for whatever reason. We held em to 20. If it's such an "offensive " league as you say it is. Why are you not happy with holding one of the is say top 3 if not best offense we will see all season to 20 points.

[BillsOwnAll]

Ej completed 72% of his passes. Did we win that stat?

[Albany,n.y.]

Again, some people are simply more intelligent than others and understand how to project a big picture.

You're not one of them.

[bdutton]

Yes. We scored more points than the opposing team.

Good job... keep doing that.

[justasportsfan]

Feelthepains argument was record be damned, it's all about the statistics.... Fletch's argument as well. Both handles start with an F as in.......fail.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Fletch

1)How do you have so much time to post such long replies?

2)Why do you do it? What fun can you be having here? It seems like we are doing nothing but bothering you with our idiocy....

[Bill Cody]

Oh really, thanks for letting me know how I'll feel.

You're welcome. You seem to think you're smarter than the rest of us but we have you pegged. You're a fan of another team trolling here. Period.

[JoeMama]

Maybe this game was different.

Everything pointed to this team hitting rock bottom after a disastrous preseason that showcased zero improvement from EJ or the offense, public shouting matches between our coach/front office, players tempers constantly flaring...

Despite of all this, the Bills --- seemingly out of nowhere -- rallied to win at Soldier Field against a good Bears team.

This was the quintessential game we always lose. A close game. On the road. Need to close it out but usually snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in some odd fashion, etc etc.

But we didn't.

We always talk about the 'culture of losing' in Buffalo.

Did F-Jax sprinting down the sideline, double stiff-arming his way to a victory look like a 'culture of losing' mentality?

That's the emotional kind of **** that makes teams believe in themselves again.

[trapezeus]

What am I supposed to think trap when all I do is post my objective thoughts on this team and how it played, using more facts than the sum total in any given thread otherwise, and people A, call me names, B, insist that I'm not a real fan, C, didn't enjoy the win in isolation, D, label me a troll, E, do a 180 on their very own opinions of just days ago, F, continually slam me as if what I offer up for discussion is irrelevant with implications, contrary to what you say, that this team has finally turned a corner, etc.?

Few people here seem to want to discuss this team rationally. It's like a room full of drunken monkeys when we win one game. I know that we're all starved for success here in Buffalo, but damn, just damn, projecting such as this after a single win like this one, it's ridiculous.

I would **** my pants in glee if we put up a 10-6 season. You read far too much of what others say about me. I cannot help you with that. If I want to know what you think I'll come to you and ask directly, you know that. I may even PM you like I've done for a number of others. Here though everyone seems to want to define me and everyone listens to what others say about me. I find it amusing and can play off of it and even enjoy doing so, but it's far from the truth.

But you're wrong, several posters here are projecting this as more than simply a win. Otherwise, what's the big F'n deal? So, we won a game. We won 6 of them in each of the last three seasons. Some people here act as if this is the first en route to a 10-6 record. I don't see how given how we actually played yesterday.

Watkins didn't even do anything. Neither did Williams. Spiller sucked. The D collapsed in the 2nd half and the O folded until OT. The D was not as advertised against the run, the Bears just didn't run that much.

Those are the facts.

I'm reacting to the harsh, childish, taken out of context, and mean-spirited comments on my comments. It says more about the posting mentality in this forum than it does about me.

If you want to know what I think, try asking me, not listening to everyone with bipolar disorder about what they say about me when their opinions come November are likely going to make mine look tame with mine remaining consistent and theirs all doing a 180.

I'll be ****in' tickled if we're 10-6 this season. In fact, if I thought that anyone here was actually worth hanging out with after the **** that they put me through, I'd offer to take everyone here out to a bar in Buffalo somewhere and by drinks all around for an entire evening if we did finish 10-6.

At the same time I'll be stunned if we are a game better than 6-10 this season. Between Manuel's play, the seeming lack of improvement of the run D, the collapse of the D overall in the 2nd half, the complete inability of Manuel to show up after the 1st quarter, what should obviously be related coaching, the lack of the offense to be able to generate 1st-downs and convert 3rd's, the seeming weakness of the pass D, and a few other things, I'm very sorry if my expectations for this season are not overcome with changes to my estimates prior to yesterday.

I see no difference, or no significant difference except that our pass D is obviously weaker. People can talk about Marrone and coaching all that they want, there's nothing to see here if you ask me.

again, watkins did not play poorly. he did what was asked of him. he caught 3 of 4 passes to him and one was simply uncatchable.

i am not sure what questions you want me to answer from here. i'm not going off other people.

people somehow are comparing you to OP. and i always thought he puts his take on a game succinctly and accurately. He always states he's happy for the win and areas he wants to see improved. he was the goldstandard of the negative nancy. but you go well beyond that.

i've said brandon sucks and whaley probably isn't what everyone hopes. but the games actually get played. and when a d gets 3 turnovers, that's a good thing. Can you rely on that week to week? no, but they did what was asked of them. buckle down at the end, hold for a field goal and send a team 3 and out on its first OT drive.

Mike Williams caught a 20yard pass to move the team over the mid field. that's a big play. the next play was FJ's run.

The bills were evenly matched against the bears. neither team looked like they were ready for the superbowl. but they have some early momentum, they have somethings to fix and they are 1 win better than i thought they'd be.

there is something in your delivery that just rubs me the wrong way.
like i said elsewhere, i am not sold on this team, but i was proud of how they hung in there. they all could have played better. and from their own mouths, seem to acknowledge that.

you're hangup on watkins is unbelievable. your hang up about the sale process is unbelievable. i just feel bad that some posters see any similarity between OP and you.

to say spiller sucked when he was part of a run game that ran 193 yards is insane. if the ol blocked better, they could have put the game out of reach earlier. if the bills aren't passing because they are running for 200 yards, i'm fine with that. and if it comes by committee, i'm fine with that.

Collapse of the d is ridiculous. yes, they gave up 10 points. but they also had a short field to defend. but they rebounded after letting a team march on them 66 yards in 4 plays in like 2 minutes. old bill teams would have just been blown out after that.

at the end of the day, this is a new season and there is limited information. what we've seen from week 1 was enough to me to say, "they have a chance against miami" they won't if they play like they did yesterday. but they are playing with momentum and confidence. two things you need regardless of the stats. and i already said i still see them as a 6-10 season. i'm just very happy they dealt with adversity positively for a change.

[HAMMER]

Fletch

1)How do you have so much time to post such long replies?

2)Why do you do it? What fun can you be having here? It seems like we are doing nothing but bothering you with our idiocy....

I was about to ask the same question re: how much time he has to post. Must live in his parents basement and collect unemployment.

[JoeMama]

What does this game mean?


The Bills hope to be turning a corner

Orchard Park, NY (WGR 550) -- Some of the Bills defensive backs were kidding around on Monday that they should invite Kyle Williams into their meetings. Williams got his first career interception when he backed off into coverage against Jay Cutler. Williams said, “They should! I’ve been telling the safeties it’s like lying in wait and then you just pounce, but that was just a one in a million deal and I don’t expect that to happen again anytime soon.”

Three different times the Bills responded to a Bears score. Chicago scored on its first possession and then Buffalo put together a 71 yard drive of its own. After the Bears tied the game at 17, Williams got his interception and Dan Carpenter put them ahead again. Then Chicago kicked the late field goal to force overtime, but Fred Jackson ripped off a 38 yard run and Carpenter won it. Williams said, “I think you can look at it as an improved makeup of the team. Guys that have been around awhile and guys that have had success like Spikes and Corey Graham. You can do it on all three levels for us defensively. We've got guys that have been around and can kind of rub off on guys.”

It’s been years since the Bills went on the road and beat a playoff caliber type team. It’s only one game, but wins like that sometimes can help a team turn the corner. The Pro Bowler said, “I think so. The win was important obviously, but what meant more to me was the adversity at the end of the game, a call goes against us, gives them a big first down and I told the team after the game, I’ve been on other teams that would’ve used that as a crutch or as an excuse and rather than using it that way, we turned it into some fuel, made some plays and went out and won the football game.”

Williams and Fred Jackson are the senior members of this football team. Kyle looked up as Fred was turning the corner on his 38 yard overtime run. Williams said, “Same old, same old, I’m like, ‘There he goes’ and totally expected what happened at the end of the run. The guy thinks he’s going to be able to knock the ball out or he thinks he might step out of bounds and Fred puts it in his face, so totally expected it.”

I think it’s legitimate to think that the Bills are starting to become a deeper football team. Kiko Alonso goes down and Nigel Bradham steps up throughout the preseason. Stephon Gilmore couldn’t play against the Bears and veteran Corey Graham not only played, but the Turner Carroll grad made some huge plays. Williams feels the depth has been built over time, “I think we have over the last couple of years. If you look at what coach Nix and Whaley have done, we’ve really started to add a lot of good players. Things on paper can look good, but we have to make it happen out on the field. We’ve added some good players over the last few years and not just good players, but good guys, good leaders and that can spill over into your whole team.”

http://www.wgr550.com/The-Bills-hope-to-be-turning-a-corner/19859269

[Dujek]

At the end of every game only one stat matters, who scored the most points. And from what I saw yesterday that would appear to have been the Bills.

Was the performance perfect? No. Are there some serious questions that need answered? Yes. Do I give two ****s right now, after the Bills won in Chicago for the first time in their history? Not a chance in hades.

One further question, are we sure Fletch isn't FTP in disguise?

[Night Train]

He must be a Wys diciple. You won't get this since you've only been around since 2009 lol

" We won..but.."

It's a well known disease called Dickhead Hyperbole.

[JoeMama]

" We won..but.."

It's a well known disease called Dickhead Hyperbole.

That guy knew how to take all the fun out of living, I remember that.

[casdhf]

See sig

[TacklingDummy]

For starters Chicago's D does not appear to be very good. Last season they ranked dead f'n last in rushing D and had a very average pass D despite allowing 3 fewer pass TDs than we did.

Contrasted with last season though:

4 of 12 on 3rd-down conversions, three of them in the 1st quarter.

15 total 1st-downs, 29 for Chicago.

9 penalties for 108 yards

28 min. TOP

Red Zone efficiency, 50%

Manuel still playing like Manuel. Can't show up for more than a quarter. 3 of his 4 3rd-down conversions were in the 1st Quarter as were nearly half of his passing yards.

He was 9 of 14 for 89 yards in quarters 2 - 4. Big yip!

Spiller showed nothing. Other than two big running plays the running game yielded little and no 3rd-down conversions.

The team still didn't show that it could generate drives. We had two over 40 yards.

Sorry, I'm seeing absolutely nothing different than last season. I'm not going to attempt to delude myself into thinking that I did.
It was a ugly win, thanks to the Bears offense. I'll take it

I couldn't get over all the high passes EJ completed that almost got his recievers killed. Or the wide open Watkins in the middle of the field that he over threw. If it wasn't for the Bears making costly mistakes the Bills would be lucky to have scored 3 points. The apologists can't blame the pass blocking, the offense line did great for the most part in pass blocking.

The offense is no different from last year and the defense may be worse.

Sadly I think we are in for another long year.

[better days]

It was a ugly win, thanks to the Bears offense. I'll take it

I couldn't get over all the high passes EJ completed that almost got his recievers killed. Or the wide open Watkins in the middle of the field that he over threw. If it wasn't for the Bears making costly mistakes the Bills would be lucky to have scored 3 points. The apologists can't blame the pass blocking, the offense line did great for the most part in pass blocking.

The offense is no different from last year and the defense may be worse.

Sadly I think we are in for another long year.

Sad for anyone that expected the Bills to go 3-13.

This team is going to the playoffs.

[Dr. Lecter]

Let me ask you Lechter, in your opinion, what were the key differences between how we played on average last season and how we played yesterday?

There were a number of differences – which I will repeat.

For one, they made the plays when they needed. You don’t want to seem to acknowledge that the difference in winning and losing in this league is often one or two plays. There are not many teams that outside that window. Sure Seattle is and Jacksonville. But for the most part teams are a play or two away from being good and bad.

They went against a team with a damn good offense and held them to 20 points in their home opener.


Take some time to answer that and PM me when you're finished, I'd like to read it.
Nah. I will put it here.


Do you think that Manuel played better? Why or why not?

Overall? Better?
He made better decisions as to when to run the ball. His completion % was well up. His YPA (which many say is one of the biggest indicators of QB play) was outstanding.

He made one really bad pass.


How about the D? As good as advertised overall? Why or why not?

Define as “advertised”?

They had some holes. They really missed Alonso and Bradham I though. Brown mad e a few plays, but overall looked like a rookie 3rd round pick. I thought the DBs missed not having their two best safeties from last year out at the end of the game.

But overall they were fine. As I already said they were playing a potent offense in their home opener and held them to 20 points. I will take that anytime.


How about Watkins? Impressive?

Williams? Same there?

Both were fine. Certainly not spectacular. But neither were the vocal point of the passing game. Which is fine.


Look at the team stats for the game and tell me what impressed you.

What “stats” so you want? Don’t obsess with stats. They can be deceptive.


How about consistency? Do you see the team having been consistent in its play throughout the game, or do you see a difference either by quarter or by half or whatever, that shows you something different?

Nope – they had ups and downs and ebbs and flows. Just like most NFL games have. There is another team out there playing too. And it is a team that is not expected to be a piece of crap either.

It seems like you are not happy unless they win 40-0, scoring 10 points in each quarter.


It's funny, I post something and people jump on me for "projecting how good we're going to be, or not," based on one game when that's not what I'm even doing. Then in other threads and other posts people are talking about how Marrone finally has control, how EJ's taking that next step, how the D has improved by leaps and bounds (after allowing over 400 yards and 4.8 ypc which would have been good for 31st last season), how the offense has exploded despite the fact that it could only produce on sustained drive resulting in a TD, and a bunch of other things.

I have not seen many people say EJ has taken the next step or that the defense has improved. I have seen most people say that they are happy with the result, I saw nobody, and I mean nobody say the offense has exploded

Can you provide those quotes?

Most of what I saw is people saying that they were happy with the win and that this is the kind of game the team has choked away in the past.


Quit talking about me and discuss the team and the facts surrounding the win. Seriously, are the lives of some people so boring that they need to waste them on coming down on me like a ton of bricks? How sad.

That is fine, but then quit making it about you. You are the one who said I started a thread just for you. You are the one who keeps telling people they said things they did not say. You are the one who has resisted saying anything good happened in the game.





OK, go ahead, point out the things that they need to improve on. I've listed a number of them that are no different than last season's.
You did.

Yet you did not seem to want to acknowledge anything that good about the game.


As for things they need to improve on, in no particular order - few penalties. A better job in run defense (although Matt Forte is a top 5 RB). Better OL work (think of what those two screens could have done had the guards gotten out front). More consistent pass rush.

There are others too. Even on EJ's game.

But, nobody has said that.

The ones acting like they don't need to improve on anything are the ones taking issue with the things that I've pointed out are no different than last season, some of which included in this post.

So was there a big difference from yesterday and last season? What was it? I'm not seeing it. Help me, factually, by pointing out those things.
Again, you are misconstruing what people are saying. Not many are saying there is nothing to improve on.

What your post ignored was who they played and where. What you also ignored were things like EJ’s completion % or YPA in the game. It is easy to make a team look bad, when you cherry pick stats. So you can say it is not about you, but you took that approach, either willingly or by being oblivious.

So I have thrown out some facts.

You might not like them, but they are there.

[better days]

It was a ugly win, thanks to the Bears offense. I'll take it

I couldn't get over all the high passes EJ completed that almost got his recievers killed. Or the wide open Watkins in the middle of the field that he over threw. If it wasn't for the Bears making costly mistakes the Bills would be lucky to have scored 3 points. The apologists can't blame the pass blocking, the offense line did great for the most part in pass blocking.

The offense is no different from last year and the defense may be worse.

Sadly I think we are in for another long year.

As I heard on WGR yesterday, it is nice to see the Chicago media complain about their football team instead of the Buffalo media doing the complaining.

It is nice to see the pessimists using the word IF instead of the optimists on this board.