say what u want about EJ

[djjimkelly]

hes not perfect by any means but hes the first bills qb in 20 years(kelly) to be able to drop in passes like that to chandler and hes done several other passes like that since hes been here

[BertSquirtgum]

He stinks.

[Typ0]

it would be a lot easier to like him if he would stop missing those wide open TDs. There has been at least three in this game so far. We should have been up 20+ points at the half.

[Goobylal]

Wait, what?

[better days]

it would be a lot easier to like him if he would stop missing those wide open TDs. There has been at least three in this game so far. We should have been up 20+ points at the half.

EJ threw a beautiful pass to Watkins that would have been a TD but for a GREAT defensive play.

[Novacane]

it would be a lot easier to like him if he would stop missing those wide open TDs. There has been at least three in this game so far. We should have been up 20+ points at the half.


What 3? I saw 1 possibly 2. He rushed the pass to Woods. Should of been a TD. Do you know Sammy was in the right spot on the one? I don't.

[casdhf]

EJ threw a beautiful pass to Watkins that would have been a TD but for a GREAT defensive play.
That was a perfect pass

[Novacane]

EJ threw a beautiful pass to Watkins that would have been a TD but for a GREAT defensive play.


They don't want to talk about that. They are so happy that ball was knocked out of Sammy's hands.

[WagonCircler]

He threw a beautiful pass to Sammy. He threw a nice pass (help by an amazing catch) to Chandler.

NFL QBs make these passes ALL THE TIME.

But the horrific inaccurate, drive killing passes are not getting any better.

And his vaunted running skills are the most overrated thing since Chiavetta's Chicken.

[casdhf]

I don't think anyone wanted that. That perfect pass was wasted because of a perfect play by Grimes. It's frustrating because he is capable but will then short hop a slant in the red zone. He needs work down there can you really argue with that?

[casdhf]

He threw a beautiful pass to Sammy. He threw a nice pass (help by an amazing catch) to Chandler.

NFL QBs make these passes ALL THE TIME.

But the horrific inaccurate, drive killing passes are not getting any better.

And his vaunted running skills are the most overrated thing since Chiavetta's Chicken.i do like how he gets out of bounds. But that 3rd and 5 where he ran out after 3 was a scratcher

[better days]

He threw a beautiful pass to Sammy. He threw a nice pass (help by an amazing catch) to Chandler.

NFL QBs make these passes ALL THE TIME.

But the horrific inaccurate, drive killing passes are not getting any better.

And his vaunted running skills are the most overrated thing since Chiavetta's Chicken.

Well, today was game #12 for EJ.

He is not Aaron Rodgers yet or Big Ben, but they were not themselves after only 12 games either.

The point is the arrow is pointing up for EJ, and only those that want to see him fail will refuse to acknowledge that.

[WagonCircler]

He is not Aaron Rodgers yet or Big Ben, .

No, he's Trent Edwards.

[GvilleBills]

He threw a beautiful pass to Sammy. He threw a nice pass (help by an amazing catch) to Chandler.

NFL QBs make these passes ALL THE TIME.

But the horrific inaccurate, drive killing passes are not getting any better.

And his vaunted running skills are the most overrated thing since Chiavetta's Chicken.


Lost me WC, I just smoked 30 thighs and drums marinated in Chiavetta's for the Gator game.
Phenomenal.

[WagonCircler]

Lost me WC, I just smoked 30 thighs and drums marinated in Chiavetta's for the Gator game.
Phenomenal.


To each, his own, I guess! Maybe if you do it yourself it comes out better. I've only ever had it from when they do lawn fetes and BBQs, and I just don't get it.

[better days]

No, he's Trent Edwards.

Trent NEVER ran like EJ can, nor could Trent ever throw as far as EJ can.

If you want to compare EJ to a failed Bills QB, JP would have been a better choice & they both even use initials for a first name.

[GvilleBills]

To each, his own, I guess! Maybe if you do it yourself it comes out better. I've only ever had it from when they do lawn fetes and BBQs, and I just don't get it.

I cherry wood smoked it for 2.5 hrs, probably helped a little ;)

I actually tried to pan fry it once when drunk, my nose didn't work for a week

[WagonCircler]

Trent NEVER ran like EJ can, nor could Trent ever throw as far as EJ can.

If you want to compare EJ to a failed Bills QB, JP would have been a better choice & they both even use initials for a first name.

Terrible analogy. Trent Manual and Losman were/are polar opposites.

Losman had a cannon, but could only throw downfield. He had the touch pass finesse of an atomic bomb. And he held the ball wayyyyy too long.

Trent Manuel loves to throw those little shot-put passes from the elbow. Captains Checkdown are petrified of throwing vertical passes, so they only do so once a game. Maybe twice. Otherwise, they try to look "poised" and throw the dump off pass as a matter of compulsion.

And Trent never ran like EJ? Fine, bot EJ doesn't run like EJ anymore either. He has knees of glass and he gives up on plays way too early.

It may or may not be the coaches drilling it into him, but the net result has totally negated any positive the Bills had from EJs alleged running prowess.

[LABillsFan]

He threw a beautiful pass to Sammy. He threw a nice pass (help by an amazing catch) to Chandler.

NFL QBs make these passes ALL THE TIME.

But the horrific inaccurate, drive killing passes are not getting any better.

And his vaunted running skills are the most overrated thing since Chiavetta's Chicken.
The Chiavetta's Chicken reference made me crack up.. Nothing against EJ, but you cant point to one or two good passes a game when there are 3 or 4 that are so far off the mark. He could go all day long completing passes inside the 20s, but to come away with 9 points in the first half could have been costly if Miami found their rhythm in the second half.

[Turf]

EJ still throws too soft of a pass. He needs to put a little more zip in it. He's not far away from being a really good QB, but needs to work on his passing skills. Reads will come with time.

[DynaPaul]

The accuracy definitely needs work but hey, at least he's not RGIII.

[Typ0]

Guys don't kill the messenger with the defensiveness. I love what I am seeing from Manual right now. Love seeing him grow and love the way he's playing. He is leaving some big plays on the field though. It's actually good that they are there. Let's hope he smokes the Chargers for a couple of them.

[tomz]

To each, his own, I guess! Maybe if you do it yourself it comes out better. I've only ever had it from when they do lawn fetes and BBQs, and I just don't get it.

WC: Definitely agree on the chicken. I cannot figure out the love.

[tomz]

The Chiavetta's Chicken reference made me crack up.. Nothing against EJ, but you cant point to one or two good passes a game when there are 3 or 4 that are so far off the mark. He could go all day long completing passes inside the 20s, but to come away with 9 points in the first half could have been costly if Miami found their rhythm in the second half.

HE needs major work on the fade pass, I agree with that. But the pass to Woods was an attempt to unload fast around an outstretched arm, I think, and he is definitely being taught to keep it low. And he is getting better all the time at the little awareness issues like when to just throw it away.

[mercyrule]

Hate to be negative - they did win and all. But he needs to get better in the red zone. Not loving the floating passes

[trapezeus]

Most young qbs who are mobile are asked to learn to use mobility within pocket and not take off at the first sign of danger. The fact manual runs 4 x a game should be seen as a positive in my opinion.

[Fletch]

Guys don't kill the messenger with the defensiveness. I love what I am seeing from Manual right now. Love seeing him grow and love the way he's playing. He is leaving some big plays on the field though. It's actually good that they are there. Let's hope he smokes the Chargers for a couple of them.

He still leaves us short on far too many drives.

We need to quit talking as if he won us the game. Last week he had one good drive and almost all the rest were stalled with the ball in his hands. If not for that set-up at the Chicago 7 we don't win that one. Special teams and defense won us the game yesterday and Miami is hardly a formidable offensive opponent. So will we play that way against better offenses. I guess we're going to find out.

This week the D played better, but offensively it was only a little better. He still left us on the field and having to settle for a FG, at least four times in the red zone. That's not good. Spiller's return was one of two TDs.

Manuel's had two TD drives in two games. We're not going to see set-ups inside the opponents' red zone or return TDs on a regular basis. We had better figure out, he had better figure out, how to move the ball and score more. Sorry, but we're just not going to win too many games playing like this. It's not about me, it's about that.

When you find yourself ranked poorly in key statistical indicators and are 2-0, it's always a good idea to step back and ask yourself why that is.

[better days]

Terrible analogy. Trent Manual and Losman were/are polar opposites.

Losman had a cannon, but could only throw downfield. He had the touch pass finesse of an atomic bomb. And he held the ball wayyyyy too long.

Trent Manuel loves to throw those little shot-put passes from the elbow. Captains Checkdown are petrified of throwing vertical passes, so they only do so once a game. Maybe twice. Otherwise, they try to look "poised" and throw the dump off pass as a matter of compulsion.

And Trent never ran like EJ? Fine, bot EJ doesn't run like EJ anymore either. He has knees of glass and he gives up on plays way too early.

It may or may not be the coaches drilling it into him, but the net result has totally negated any positive the Bills had from EJs alleged running prowess.

Did you watch the Bears game?

The TD EJ ran in was from about 8 yds out on a designed play.

The JP & EJ comparison is much better than the comparison to Trent.

The biggest difference between EJ & JP IMO is EJ has a better work ethic & leadership abilities than JP did.

Both JP & CJ could sling the ball, Trent could not. And both JP & EJ are mobile while Trent was a statue.

[Fletch]

Hate to be negative - they did win and all. But he needs to get better in the red zone. Not loving the floating passes

Even out of the red zone. It's not like Manuel's leading us on drives over 50 yards, he's not. He seems kind of like Bledsoe, can get us down the field a little bit, and like yesterday into the red zone, but then he chokes.

Here's the deal, our running game is about the same as last seasons and all the improvement is supposed to come from the passing game on O. But he's got 1 TD per game. That's not enough to even be average. We need much more from him. I'm not seeing any improvement whatsoever that says that's coming.

[justasportsfan]

We need to quit talking as if he won us the game.

nobody is saying anything close to that. Stop being a drama queen.

[Novacane]

When you find yourself ranked poorly in key statistical indicators and are 2-0, it's always a good idea to step back and ask yourself why that is.


Are you talking about that key statistical indicator of points scored where we are 5th? Could drop to 7th if Indy and Philly pass us tonight?

[Fletch]

Terrible analogy. Trent Manual and Losman were/are polar opposites.

Losman had a cannon, but could only throw downfield. He had the touch pass finesse of an atomic bomb. And he held the ball wayyyyy too long.

Trent Manuel loves to throw those little shot-put passes from the elbow. Captains Checkdown are petrified of throwing vertical passes, so they only do so once a game. Maybe twice. Otherwise, they try to look "poised" and throw the dump off pass as a matter of compulsion.

And Trent never ran like EJ? Fine, bot EJ doesn't run like EJ anymore either. He has knees of glass and he gives up on plays way too early.

It may or may not be the coaches drilling it into him, but the net result has totally negated any positive the Bills had from EJs alleged running prowess.

That's as accurate of an assessment as I've ever read on that. Nice job.



Did you watch the Bears game?

The TD EJ ran in was from about 8 yds out on a designed play.

The JP & EJ comparison is much better than the comparison to Trent.

The biggest difference between EJ & JP IMO is EJ has a better work ethic & leadership abilities than JP did.

Both JP & CJ could sling the ball, Trent could not. And both JP & EJ are mobile while Trent was a statue.

I don't know about work ethic bd, I think both had it. JP and EJ can both sling the ball, but JP could put it on the numbers, EJ can't. We're seeing it again this season. Nothing changed. That's pretty important.

WagonCircler is right though about Edwards throwing from the elbow. Never heard it put like that, but that's accurate.

[trapezeus]

Fletch give us a stat line that would make you feel that ej is getting it

to me it seems the bills aren't about having a qb who can carry the team. They want strong d, good run game and mistake free football. If ej was throwing 35-40 times a game, the 3 downs and lack of scores would be an issue.

I do agree that he hasn't had 60-80 drives. But he is having success to build on. And it seems to me most posters know it has to get better as season wears on, but it has been more than enough through two weeks

also, fletch, give us your take on Watkins playing hurt and getting 117 yards

- - - Updated - - -

Fletch give us a stat line that would make you feel that ej is getting it

to me it seems the bills aren't about having a qb who can carry the team. They want strong d, good run game and mistake free football. If ej was throwing 35-40 times a game, the 3 downs and lack of scores would be an issue.

I do agree that he hasn't had 60-80 drives. But he is having success to build on. And it seems to me most posters know it has to get better as season wears on, but it has been more than enough through two weeks

also, fletch, give us your take on Watkins playing hurt and getting 117 yards

[Ingtar33]

Guys don't kill the messenger with the defensiveness. I love what I am seeing from Manual right now. Love seeing him grow and love the way he's playing. He is leaving some big plays on the field though. It's actually good that they are there. Let's hope he smokes the Chargers for a couple of them.

the only way we're beating the chargers is if he doesn't leave those plays on the field. the Chargers look like a legit wildcard team right now. This is the level of football team we'll need to beat to get to the playoffs.

[gebobs]

Based on his performances, I think any fan has to be pleasantly surprised. He hasn't lit it up, but he's shown some sparks. Despite the less than heroic performances, he hasn't made many mistakes and he's managed the team to two wins. Just one INT and the Bills rarely go 3-and-out. On the one hand, they haven't gotten as many TDs as we'd like but 3 points is better than none. Hopefully, his confidence will build and his talent will emerge. Definitely needs more zip on the ball.

I am not going to change my season prediction from 5-11. You'll thank me for that. The moment I do, the wheels will come off.

[Novacane]

Completion % up 8% over last year. YPA up almost 1.5 yd per attempt Rating up 18 points over last year. He is showing improvement Fletch whether you admit it or not. Yeah I know it's only 2 games but that's all we have to go on. He needs to keep improving. Especially in the red zone which we all are aware of. He's played 12 games in his career. Your'e timetable for improvement is unreasonable.

[better days]

the only way we're beating the chargers is if he doesn't leave those plays on the field. the Chargers look like a legit wildcard team right now. This is the level of football team we'll need to beat to get to the playoffs.

The Chargers looked good yesterday beating the Seahawks, but it was at home in 115 degree heat.

The Fins looked just as good beating the Pats* at home.

Then the Bears come from behind & beat the 49ers on the road.

This game will be in BUFFALO. I expect the crowd to be as loud as it was against the Fins.

Rivers reminds me of Cutler. He can sling the ball, but when pressured, he makes mistakes.

I'm calling it now...........

Bills 27
Chargers 21

[Fletch]

Are you talking about that key statistical indicator of points scored where we are 5th? Could drop to 7th if Indy and Philly pass us tonight?

It's too early in the season to look at PF and PA. Those things stabilize after about 6 weeks.

It's more important to look at how you're getting your points.

Last season only 5 teams had more than 1 return for a TD. Only two teams had more than 2. That's not a way that you win a lot of games.

I don't know how many times teams had the ball dropped inside the opponents 10-yard line either, but I'm guessing that it's also not enough to win games.

It's more important to see how well we're moving the ball.

Can we move it? How do we move it?

We can't. After last week we were ranked 27th by PFO in net yards per drive. That got worse this week.

You have to move the ball to score, you know that. Once you get into the red zone you've gotta punch into the End Zone.

I'm not trying to piss you off or anything, but damn, if we can't move the ball better and do something with it in the red zone besides hit FGs then we're in trouble.

We lead the league in FGs with 8, 2nd is 6. We also are near the bottom in ability to generate a drive. There is a correlation between the two.

[better days]

It's too early in the season to look at PF and PA. Those things stabilize after about 6 weeks.

It's more important to look at how you're getting your points.

Last season only 5 teams had more than 1 return for a TD. Only two teams had more than 2. That's not a way that you win a lot of games.

I don't know how many times teams had the ball dropped inside the opponents 10-yard line either, but I'm guessing that it's also not enough to win games.

It's more important to see how well we're moving the ball.

Can we move it? How do we move it?

We can't. After last week we were ranked 27th by PFO in net yards per drive. That got worse this week.

You have to move the ball to score, you know that. Once you get into the red zone you've gotta punch into the End Zone.

I'm not trying to piss you off or anything, but damn, if we can't move the ball better and do something with it in the red zone besides hit FGs then we're in trouble.

We lead the league in FGs with 8, 2nd is 6. We also are near the bottom in ability to generate a drive. There is a correlation between the two.

I agree Fletch, we need 7 points instead of 3, especially when on the road.

On the other hand what are the stats against the Bills defense?

[Novacane]

1 game at time fletch. I know you want EJ to go from 0 to 60 immediately. I'm happy with him plugging along and getting there 1 step at a time.

[casdhf]

the only way we're beating the chargers is if he doesn't leave those plays on the field. the Chargers look like a legit wildcard team right now. This is the level of football team we'll need to beat to get to the playoffs.
I agree with this. They are the definition of dink and dunk. I feel like we need to get back to our cover-2 roots for this one.

[SquishDaFish]

WOW some people really are mentally disturbed and just want to see him fail to say I told you so. How pathetic

[better days]

I cherry wood smoked it for 2.5 hrs, probably helped a little ;)

I actually tried to pan fry it once when drunk, my nose didn't work for a week

I grill chicken with Buffalo style wing sauce & cherry wood in a box with the top of the grill closed, GREAT tasting chicken.

[Fletch]

Fletch give us a stat line that would make you feel that ej is getting it

to me it seems the bills aren't about having a qb who can carry the team. They want strong d, good run game and mistake free football. If ej was throwing 35-40 times a game, the 3 downs and lack of scores would be an issue.

I do agree that he hasn't had 60-80 drives. But he is having success to build on. And it seems to me most posters know it has to get better as season wears on, but it has been more than enough through two weeks

also, fletch, give us your take on Watkins playing hurt and getting 117 yards.

I don't think that EJ is getting it. He's the one responsible for getting 1st downs, something we rank near the bottom at, for generating drives, something we rank near the bottom at, converting 3rds, something he stinks at, and for doing something with it in the red zone, where he stinks too. I cannot share anyone's optimism on Manuel. I think as the season progresses you will eventually think the same way.

I think that if he's "having success to build on" as you put it, it's simply winning. But he had winning at FSU too, much more than here, and he still couldn't step up to be that kind of QB there either. So I'm still not expecting it here. There's no success in his play. He's still inconsistent, cannot put several quarters of solid football together, in fact he's struggling to put two together just as he did last season, and he's still inaccurate on the deep balls.

As to Watkins, what can be said, is this a trick question? Great game. I'd love to see that every week which is going to be what it takes to make him worth 2 1st-rounders and a 4th.

Let's see if he does it. It'd be nice.

Having said that, I'm skeptical. This was the home opener with more emotion, energy, and fan support than we'll see all season long. This team has a long track record of posting one or two emotional games like this early in the season before going completely flat.

Also, it's nice that Manuel found Watkins, but seems that he completely forgot about Woods and Williams who combined for 2 catches for 8 yards. Next week it might be Williams for 90 yards and Watkins and Woods going flat. To talk about Watkins as if he's going to post 100-yard every week isn't smart right now. Our WRs combined for 10 catches for 125 yards. How many winning teams do you think did worse than that from their WRs on Sunday?

Manuel did better to his WRs last week with 9 for 145. He had a TD this week though. He's averaging 135/week to his WRs is the point.

At 135 yards per week to his WRs if you're expecting Watkins to post a season that would justify spending two 1st-rounders and a 4th, you're wasting your time. Something is going to have to change for that to happen and that something is Manuel.

[SquishDaFish]

Fletch is one of the types that will never be happy. Ill take the experts who are hopping on the wagon saying Buffalo might be a lot better than they thought. (What IF CJ didnt return the kick What IF this WHAT IF that.... GET OVER IT!!!)

[Mahdi]

EJ took the first step any rookie QB needs to take to be successful. Get the ball to the playmakers. He didn't do very flashy things, although he had a few really well placed throws, but he mainly just waited for his best players to get open and dumped it off to them.

For me that's step one.

[Novacane]

Fletch is one of the types that will never be happy. Ill take the experts who are hopping on the wagon saying Buffalo might be a lot better than they thought. (What IF CJ didnt return the kick What IF this WHAT IF that.... GET OVER IT!!!)


There were a few that wanted Reich over Kelly. My cousin was one of them. Fletch is the same type. EJ will never be able to please him. His mind is made up.

[better days]

EJ took the first step any rookie QB needs to take to be successful. Get the ball to the playmakers. He didn't do very flashy things, although he had a few really well placed throws, but he mainly just waited for his best players to get open and dumped it off to them.

For me that's step one.

And he is protecting the ball.

Only one turnover in two games.

[Fletch]

Completion % up 8% over last year. YPA up almost 1.5 yd per attempt Rating up 18 points over last year. He is showing improvement Fletch whether you admit it or not. Yeah I know it's only 2 games but that's all we have to go on. He needs to keep improving. Especially in the red zone which we all are aware of. He's played 12 games in his career. Your'e timetable for improvement is unreasonable.

So by your same standards then, tell us about Fitzpatrick over in Houston?

Has he turned a corner? Or do you expect him to flop coming up at some point?

If you apply the same standard then he's well on track to be a league leader. Right? Do you expect that?

My timetable for the improvement of a 16th overall drafted QB is right now.

What I'm looking for aren't indicators that are overcome by other indicators. Let's put it this way, who cares if he has a higher YPA if it doesn't lead to yards, points, 1st-downs, 3rd-down conversions, or Red Zone performance.

I'd rather have a lower YPA and increases in those things.

As to rating, you're right, it's only two games, so let's see where his rating is after 8. Last season after two games his rating was even higher than it is now and we beat one much better team than Chicago or Miami and nearly beat NE. We did it with much more offense from Manuel too. Carolina had the 2nd ranked defense in the league last season.

So I'm not sure what you're point is. If these points about Manuel improving are valid, then last season wouldn't have happened the way it did and we wouldn't even be discussing Manuel right now.

I'll say it again, Manuel's performances in his first two games last season were better than they are in the first two games this season.

Do with that information what you want.

[Fletch]

EJ took the first step any rookie QB needs to take to be successful. Get the ball to the playmakers. He didn't do very flashy things, although he had a few really well placed throws, but he mainly just waited for his best players to get open and dumped it off to them.

For me that's step one.

And yet that resulted in what, 1 offensive TD, right?

[Novacane]

Your mind is made up Fletch. No sense in debating you. I'm enjoying 2-0 and hoping for better things! If they happen awesome! If not oh well. We're used to it lol. Have a good day!

[Mahdi]

And yet that resulted in what, 1 offensive TD, right?

The ability to score consistently inside the redzone takes a level of ability EJ doesn't have at this point. We need to be better running the football when we're in tight.

[WagonCircler]

to me it seems the bills aren't about having a qb who can carry the team. They want strong d, good run game and mistake free football. If ej was throwing 35-40 times a game, the 3 downs and lack of scores would be an issue

That's the frustrating part. The rest of the team looks so good, but you can't keep leaving TDs on the field and walking off with FGs.

Miami had a good first week, but they are a deeply flawed team that matches up very poorly with the Bills. Then, they lost Moreno on his first carry.

Against better teams that don't match up well, and on days without 102 yard kick returns, you need a QB who can carry a team. And you need Touchdowns.

[Fletch]

I agree Fletch, we need 7 points instead of 3, especially when on the road.

On the other hand what are the stats against the Bills defense?

I know that our new and improved rushing D gave up almost 5 yards per carry against Chicago.

I don't consider Miami to have much of an offense, they were terrible last season and couldn't run the ball for ****. I don't think that they've improved much and their two best RBs left the game yesterday. So in that environment I'm not sure it's a good indicator.

Still, having said that, Tannehill played a lot better than I had expected, the Fins had 23 1st downs to our 13, were similar in 3rd-down conversions in a very hostile environment, put up almost as many net yards as we did, and had 3 of the 4 longest drives in the game.

So what are your thoughts on that?

I kinda thought that Tannehill would have maybe 150 passing yards and that Miller, whose not a good rusher, wouldn't average 4 ypc which he did. Williams is an undrafted rookie free agent and he ran well the few times he got the ball.

[Fletch]

That's the frustrating part. The rest of the team looks so good, but you can't keep leaving TDs on the field and walking off with FGs.

Miami had a good first week, but they are a deeply flawed team that matches up very poorly with the Bills. Then, they lost Moreno on his first carry.

Against better teams that don't match up well, and on days without 102 yard kick returns, you need a QB who can carry a team. And you need Touchdowns.

That's exactly it. Thanks for saying it. I say it and I get nothing but insults thrown my way.

[Fletch]

The ability to score consistently inside the redzone takes a level of ability EJ doesn't have at this point. We need to be better running the football when we're in tight.

We haven't been much better running in the red zone either though. This isn't just an EJ in the red zone thing. Jackson's our best Red Zone and 3rd-down RB and he's been terrible at that this season. Maybe age is catching up to him, I don't know.

[Fletch]

Your mind is made up Fletch. No sense in debating you. I'm enjoying 2-0 and hoping for better things! If they happen awesome! If not oh well. We're used to it lol. Have a good day!

This isn't about you and me Novacane. I'd say that the one that's made his mind up is you though.

And please, don't debate me. You're not debating anyway, you're merely coming down on me angrily because I don't agree with you, that's hardly a debate or even a reasonable discussion.

[Fletch]

Fletch is one of the types that will never be happy. Ill take the experts who are hopping on the wagon saying Buffalo might be a lot better than they thought. (What IF CJ didnt return the kick What IF this WHAT IF that.... GET OVER IT!!!)

lol

Love who the "thankers" are on this post.

The funny thing is that come about 8 weeks from now you're going to be so much unhappier with this team than I am now.

[Mahdi]

We haven't been much better running in the red zone either though. This isn't just an EJ in the red zone thing. Jackson's our best Red Zone and 3rd-down RB and he's been terrible at that this season. Maybe age is catching up to him, I don't know.

That's what I'm saying, we need to run the ball better in the redzone...

[trapezeus]

I don't think that EJ is getting it. He's the one responsible for getting 1st downs, something we rank near the bottom at, for generating drives, something we rank near the bottom at, converting 3rds, something he stinks at, and for doing something with it in the red zone, where he stinks too. I cannot share anyone's optimism on Manuel. I think as the season progresses you will eventually think the same way.

I think that if he's "having success to build on" as you put it, it's simply winning. But he had winning at FSU too, much more than here, and he still couldn't step up to be that kind of QB there either. So I'm still not expecting it here. There's no success in his play. He's still inconsistent, cannot put several quarters of solid football together, in fact he's struggling to put two together just as he did last season, and he's still inaccurate on the deep balls.

As to Watkins, what can be said, is this a trick question? Great game. I'd love to see that every week which is going to be what it takes to make him worth 2 1st-rounders and a 4th.

Let's see if he does it. It'd be nice.

Having said that, I'm skeptical. This was the home opener with more emotion, energy, and fan support than we'll see all season long. This team has a long track record of posting one or two emotional games like this early in the season before going completely flat.

Also, it's nice that Manuel found Watkins, but seems that he completely forgot about Woods and Williams who combined for 2 catches for 8 yards. Next week it might be Williams for 90 yards and Watkins and Woods going flat. To talk about Watkins as if he's going to post 100-yard every week isn't smart right now. Our WRs combined for 10 catches for 125 yards. How many winning teams do you think did worse than that from their WRs on Sunday?

Manuel did better to his WRs last week with 9 for 145. He had a TD this week though. He's averaging 135/week to his WRs is the point.

At 135 yards per week to his WRs if you're expecting Watkins to post a season that would justify spending two 1st-rounders and a 4th, you're wasting your time. Something is going to have to change for that to happen and that something is Manuel.


is there a difference between teams that rely solely on their qb and a team that is trying a more balanced approach? and if so, would you expect to see that in the stat lines?

your boy mike evans left the game. watkins played through the pain all game.

the bills warts are a lot easier to deal with at 2-0 than 0-2.

manual is being asked to be accurate 70% of the time with 25 passes. a lot of third downs were runs up the middle. where is ej to blame on that?

and frankly in years past, we got cute and made a big mistake. i agree the bills don't look like a powerhouse team, but its mid september and it doesn't feel like the sky is falling. i'll take it.

i also don't see any qb in the league right now ripping it up over 2 weeks. it seems like the qb play is about average across the board.

[better days]

I know that our new and improved rushing D gave up almost 5 yards per carry against Chicago.

I don't consider Miami to have much of an offense, they were terrible last season and couldn't run the ball for ****. I don't think that they've improved much and their two best RBs left the game yesterday. So in that environment I'm not sure it's a good indicator.

Still, having said that, Tannehill played a lot better than I had expected, the Fins had 23 1st downs to our 13, were similar in 3rd-down conversions in a very hostile environment, put up almost as many net yards as we did, and had 3 of the 4 longest drives in the game.

So what are your thoughts on that?

I kinda thought that Tannehill would have maybe 150 passing yards and that Miller, whose not a good rusher, wouldn't average 4 ypc which he did. Williams is an undrafted rookie free agent and he ran well the few times he got the ball.

Here are my thoughts on the Bills defense...

The Bills allowed the Bears to score 20 points in CHICAGO.

The Bears scored 28 points in a road game against the 49ers.

The Bills allowed only 10 points to the Fins.

[Typ0]

Well I don't know who said those things but it wasn't me. He didn't win us the game...but he didn't lose it for us either. The kid is young and the way he is playing I'm more than willing to give him time to grow on the field. I'm seeing something completely different than the crap we have seen in the past trying to develop QBs who were never going to make it. Manual has a chance and 2 TDs in two games is four times better than the offense produced in the pre-season that I found so concerning.

EJ has got to learn how to convert if we are going to reach the next level I agree. But I also think the coaching staff is working the problem intelligently and placing him in situations where he can't force something that kills the whole team. He's got to work into it if it's going to happen..why throw away games in the process? I thought he was going to struggle a lot more than he is. Instead I see him playing smart and the team with passion. Those are winning combinations of things and we are going to have to have some patience again no matter how bad the taste from the past in our mouths.


He still leaves us short on far too many drives.

We need to quit talking as if he won us the game. Last week he had one good drive and almost all the rest were stalled with the ball in his hands. If not for that set-up at the Chicago 7 we don't win that one. Special teams and defense won us the game yesterday and Miami is hardly a formidable offensive opponent. So will we play that way against better offenses. I guess we're going to find out.

This week the D played better, but offensively it was only a little better. He still left us on the field and having to settle for a FG, at least four times in the red zone. That's not good. Spiller's return was one of two TDs.

Manuel's had two TD drives in two games. We're not going to see set-ups inside the opponents' red zone or return TDs on a regular basis. We had better figure out, he had better figure out, how to move the ball and score more. Sorry, but we're just not going to win too many games playing like this. It's not about me, it's about that.

When you find yourself ranked poorly in key statistical indicators and are 2-0, it's always a good idea to step back and ask yourself why that is.

[trapezeus]

Well I don't know who said those things but it wasn't me. He didn't win us the game...but he didn't lose it for us either. The kid is young and the way he is playing I'm more than willing to give him time to grow on the field. I'm seeing something completely different than the crap we have seen in the past trying to develop QBs who were never going to make it. Manual has a chance and 2 TDs in two games is four times better than the offense produced in the pre-season that I found so concerning.

EJ has got to learn how to convert if we are going to reach the next level I agree. But I also think the coaching staff is working the problem intelligently and placing him in situations where he can't force something that kills the whole team. He's got to work into it if it's going to happen..why throw away games in the process? I thought he was going to struggle a lot more than he is. Instead I see him playing smart and the team with passion. Those are winning combinations of things and we are going to have to have some patience again no matter how bad the taste from the past in our mouths.

agreed. it was frustrating to watch the FG, but to some degree, they trusted the defense, were running clock. why show any packages that weren't practiced well and throw away momentum when simply doing the boring thing would get what you wanted, a W.

i think we'd all feel better if we had a bonafide star at QB. but the teams that typically win superbowls and are more reliable are more balanced teams. if the bills keep this up and win from contributions from different people each week, i'm fine with it.

for me, i was hoping what the bills brass wanted. a playoff appearance. if the bills do that, it was a successful year. anything more is excellent. and anything less is expected.

[Typ0]

As I was watching the game last Sunday it dawned on my how poor this team has been for the past decade. We have guys making plays all over the field right now. We have guys layers down on the depth chart stepping in and being competitive and people are still making plays. Mentally, the men are in the game. That is such a huge part of the battle keeping their focus and minds in the game. So far, I'm impressed. I can't wait to see how they respond to the hiccups.


agreed. it was frustrating to watch the FG, but to some degree, they trusted the defense, were running clock. why show any packages that weren't practiced well and throw away momentum when simply doing the boring thing would get what you wanted, a W.

i think we'd all feel better if we had a bonafide star at QB. but the teams that typically win superbowls and are more reliable are more balanced teams. if the bills keep this up and win from contributions from different people each week, i'm fine with it.

for me, i was hoping what the bills brass wanted. a playoff appearance. if the bills do that, it was a successful year. anything more is excellent. and anything less is expected.

[DesertFox24]

He is not an elite qb today. He may become one or may not. He has started 12 games and is 6-5 in the 11 games he has finished.

He was a developmental project coming out and was going to need work like several other qbs.

The best part is we won two games and he is getting better. No he did not win the game but that is not the plan this year or probably next year. Neither is it the plan of the Seahawks or 49ners.

[swiper]

Well, today was game #12 for EJ.

He is not Aaron Rodgers yet or Big Ben, but they were not themselves after only 12 games either.

The point is the arrow is pointing up for EJ, and only those that want to see him fail will refuse to acknowledge that.

Wrong again.