EJ horribly inaccurate

[Buffalogic]

We should be up a whole lot more than we are right now. The Sammy Watkins miss was just terrible.

[casdhf]

For every throw like that one to Chandler there are 4 like that one to Sammy.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Just enjoy watching your football team... My God!

[TacklingDummy]

Watkins won't be the only receiver with hurt ribs by the end of the year.

[Goobylal]

LOL! The chuckleheads have spoken.

[BertSquirtgum]

EJ stinks

[YardRat]

Actually, he had better accuracy today on his deeper throws than usual. Chandler (great catch) and the 'drop' by Watkins (a great play by Grimes) were perfect.

[cookie G]

He got flustered in the 2nd Q after his redzone misses.

To his credit, he calmed down in the 2nd half........

He's giving himself something to build on..

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Damn, what a pathetic POS qb. 200 yards, 60%+ completion rate, a td, no to's, and a big win. Yeah, he blows. Cut him yesterday. Better yet trade for Tannehill.

[RedEyE]

I saw only 3 plays that Manuel could have improved. He should have tucked and ran one in the red zone in in the first half, and two bad throws-1 could have been a TD to Woods but you could also argue Woods didn't properly read the coverage and should have slightly adjusted his route inside.

EJ didn't turn the ball over and managed the game and clock well.

Also, his name is not Tannehill.

So lay off the kid a bit a let him progress. Mistakes WILL happen, but there is hardly a perfect QB in the league.

[RedEyE]

BTW, no one crediting the position on those passes to Watkins (bomb first drive) and Chandler????!!! Those are NFL caliber throws. Miami defender played both of those passes perfectly and even though the Watkins pass was stripped, the position of the pass was perfect!!!

[Novacane]

He took another step forward today. That's all I ask.

[black N yellow]

this thread is horribly inaccurate.

[notacon]

I'm not sure what glasses some people have on when they watch games. Manuel is not "horribly inaccurate". That boneheaded observation IS horribly inaccurate.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

He took another step forward today. That's all I ask.

Well that and another one in the win column

[notacon]

Oh...that Watkins pass...it is much more likely that Watkins was not supposed to be where he was supposed to be. Every other pass to him was right on the money.

[Novacane]

Oh...that Watkins pass...it is much more likely that Watkins was not supposed to be where he was supposed to be. Every other pass to him was right on the money.


That's what I was thinking too. But I don't have an anti EJ agenda so I'm not going act like I know who made the mistake there.

[Crisis]

He still has his accuracy problems but he is improving for what it's worth. Don't think he'll ever be elite but maybe he can be serviceable.

[Buffalogic]

He blew two slants for td's by throwing the balls at their feet. If Orton started we probably would have scored 50 points.

[better days]

He blew two slants for td's by throwing the balls at their feet. If Orton started we probably would have scored 50 points.

Or Orton turns the ball over & the Fins score 30 points.

[Dujek]

I saw a QB who was calm under pressure and didn't turn the ball over. With the defense and running game that we have that's all we need to win games. Manuel will never be Peyton Manning, but he's a damn sight better than Trent Dilfer ever was.

[RedEyE]

He blew two slants for td's by throwing the balls at their feet. If Orton started we probably would have scored 50 points.

LMAO! Yes cause Orton is well known for his 50 pt games. Most ridiculous thing I have ever read on this post. If this isn't sarcasm then I officially nominate you as the worse Bills fan in history.

[RedEyE]

I saw a QB who was calm under pressure and didn't turn the ball over. With the defense and running game that we have that's all we need to win games. Manuel will never be Peyton Manning, but he's a damn sight better than Trent Dilfer ever was.

This^^

[Buffalogic]

LMAO! Yes cause Orton is well known for his 50 pt games. Most ridiculous thing I have ever read on this post. If this isn't sarcasm then I officially nominate you as the worse Bills fan in history.Who is well known for 50 point games? Dumb argument.

[Buffalogic]

If this was a close game those 3 missed TD passes would have this board melting down and asking for his head. But the defense plays outstanding so EJ gets a pass apparently.

[Novacane]

He blew two slants for td's by throwing the balls at their feet. If Orton started we probably would have scored 50 points.



Orton. LMAO Give it a rest

[SpikedLemonade]

EJ is improving game over game.

Not sure what he will improve to, but he is playing well enough to win right now.

[Buffalogic]

We had six field goal attempts. If we had a real qb we would have converted TD's on at least half of those and scored 50 points.

[cookie G]

I saw only 3 plays that Manuel could have improved. He should have tucked and ran one in the red zone in in the first half, and two bad throws-1 could have been a TD to Woods but you could also argue Woods didn't properly read the coverage and should have slightly adjusted his route inside.

nah..he did get teh jitters in the redzone, and I think he knew it. The passes to Woods and Watkins were really easy passes to make...he just got nervous...there isn't any way of getting around it..

But again, as I said earlier, he could have gotten down on himself and played a really bad 2nd half.

But he didn't. He got his composure back

[RedEyE]

Who is well known for 50 point games? Dumb argument.

I can play your game too. If the Bills had drafted Rothlisberger they'd have 3 Super Bowl wins right now.

That's how pathetic you sound. Put down your Mom's crack pipe and go watch the Jets game.

[Buffalogic]

I can play your game too. If the Bills had drafted Rothlisberger they'd have 3 Super Bowl wins right now.

That's how pathetic you sound. Put down your Mom's crack pipe and go watch the Jets game.
What does this even mean? Is EJ your son? Why are you defending his obvious miss throws and jitters?

[Dujek]

We had six field goal attempts. If we had a real qb we would have converted TD's on at least half of those and scored 50 points.

Two of those were at the end of the game when the Bills were running the ball every play. Hardly EJ's fault the RBs got bogged down

[Novacane]

What does this even mean? Is EJ your son? Why are you defending his obvious miss throws and jitters?



Because of dicks like you who only want to talk about his mistakes. He did a lot of good today. A lot more good than bad.

[Buffalogic]

Two of those were at the end of the game when the Bills were running the ball every play. Hardly EJ's fault the RBs got bogged downOk, then there were 4 other tries we failed on from inside the 10. Even though we had 6 tries we can throw two in the trash and it's still not good enough.

[Buffalogic]

Because of dicks like you who only want to talk about his mistakes. He did a lot of good today. A lot more good than bad.
Low standards. Why take it so personally? If this was a close game, one the defense didn't dominate, it would be easier for the apologists to see his obvious flaws.

[Novacane]

I don't live in IF land!

[Buffalogic]

I don't live in IF land!That game will come and you will see.

[Mike]

If this was a close game those 3 missed TD passes would have this board melting down and asking for his head. But the defense plays outstanding so EJ gets a pass apparently.

If the Bills were a Contender these sorts of plays make the difference between winning & losing big games. In such a scenario, homers would hate him; however, our actual scenario is the opposite of that.

[JoeMama]

EJ is playing within his limits, keeping mistakes to a minimum, and showing very good poise.

I have no complaints about the kid. He's doing a good job.

Even his accuracy seems to be improving.

[Novacane]

That game will come and you will see.


And you can't wait for that game can you? You'll be here jumping for joy patting yourself on the back if/when that game happens. You're joke.

[better days]

If the Bills were a Contender these sorts of plays make the difference between winning & losing big games. In such a scenario, homers would hate him; however, our actual scenario is the opposite of that.

The Bills hung 29 points on the Fins today & EJ did not have a single turnover.

If the Bills continue to score like that & EJ protects the ball like he did today, the Bills are going to win some BIG games with this defense.

[Buffalogic]

And you can't wait for that game can you? You'll be here jumping for joy patting yourself on the back if/when that game happens. You're joke.
God you are being stupid. No I won't be cheering for it. But I can see it happening and am prepared for it. Unlike you where you won't acknowledge that if EJ plays like this in a close game we lose. But you will make excuses for him on that day too I'm sure.

[Scumbag College]

The Bills hung 29 points on the Fins today & EJ did not have a single turnover.

If the Bills continue to score like that & EJ protects the ball like he did today, the Bills are going to win some BIG games with this defense.

With this defense if the Bills score 29 points and have no turnovers every game, this is a playoff team.

[WagonCircler]

The Offense didn't hang 29 on the Phins, and given their opportunities, a legit NFL QB would have hung 50 on them.

This is Trent Edwards all over again.

[better days]

The Offense didn't hang 29 on the Phins, and given their opportunities, a legit NFL QB would have hung 50 on them.

This is Trent Edwards all over again.

Here is a clue for you, Football is a team game.

Bills 29

Fins 10

[Buffalogic]

Here is a clue for you, Football is a team game.

Bills 29

Fins 10Ostrich man.

[WagonCircler]

Here is a clue for you, Football is a team game.

Bills 29

Fins 10

The Bills were awesome. EJ was barely adequate, at best.

That's not always going to be enough.

[Meathead]

boooo both wagons

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

I'm not sure what glasses some people have on when they watch games. Manuel is not "horribly inaccurate". That boneheaded observation IS horribly inaccurate.

It's not the glasses, it's what's in the glass. Well booze.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Boy somebody will never be happy.

[Jry44]

Who is well known for 50 point games? Dumb argument.


Is that why he's been a back up for three years, and was benched in favor for Tim Tebow?

Get a grip dude.... EJ Manuel has started only 12 games in his career and is showing signs of progressing. I understand that it's only two games, but he's 2-0 and is yet to cost us a game. If he can make this kind of play his standard for this year we can possibly be playing meaningful games in December. I would much rather seeif he can progress than to toss him aside for a journeyman, yet solid back up.

[Jry44]

If the Bills were a Contender these sorts of plays make the difference between winning & losing big games. In such a scenario, homers would hate him; however, our actual scenario is the opposite of that.

This whole "homers versus the realists" thing that this board seems to obsess over is beyond juvenile. I feel like I'm hearing the preps and the goths fight with each other in a junior high school cafeteria.

[TakingItuptheChin]

Damn, what a pathetic POS qb. 200 yards, 60%+ completion rate, a td, no to's, and a big win. Yeah, he blows. Cut him yesterday. Better yet trade for Tannehill.
I agree with everything you said except that I rather start Orton and give EJ a crummy clip board instead of trading him.

[Bill Cody]

The Bills won big today against the hated fins. Cue the douche bag agenda threads

[YardRat]

God you are being stupid. No I won't be cheering for it. But I can see it happening and am prepared for it. Unlike you where you won't acknowledge that if EJ plays like this in a close game we lose. But you will make excuses for him on that day too I'm sure.

'Realistically' speaking, arguably last week he played worse, it was a close game, and they won.

[Goobylal]

The EJ haters look like freaking morons here. Shut up and save it for a loss.

[BertSquirtgum]

He still has his accuracy problems but he is improving for what it's worth. Don't think he'll ever be elite but maybe he can be serviceable.

Exactly. He is holding this team back. As long as he is the the starting quarterback I don't think they will make the playoffs and if they do I don't think they will have a chance at winning the game. Unless the defense turns into the 2000 Baltimore Ravens.

[Yasgur's Farm]

EJ is now 6 and 6... Can you name any other Bills QB (not named Bledsoe) in the last 14 years that was .500?

[BertSquirtgum]

I'm dumb

[Yasgur's Farm]

There were plenty of you back in the Losman vs Edwards years that proclaimed that W vs L was the only valid stat... Don't make me look you up.

[X-Era]

16 of 22 and now 16 of 26... so 32 of 48 = 67% completion rate

Not sure what you're looking for because that puts him top 10 in the league out of the starters.

I think your argument would be better if you went after him for yards per game or something like that.

[RedEyE]

Exactly. He is holding this team back. As long as he is the the starting quarterback I don't think they will make the playoffs and if they do I don't think they will have a chance at winning the game. Unless the defense turns into the 2000 Baltimore Ravens.

Amazingly impatient!

[Dr. Lecter]

He was not horrible inaccurate. That is just an absurd thing to say

He might have missed Watkins on that throw, although it is certainly possible that Watkins did not cut enough. He threw the ball before Watkins made his move.

But even if he did and threw the other two passes poorly (which those certainly he did) that does not make him "horribly inaccurate"

Unfortunately it seems that any discussion of him is, for some people, focused only when he does make a mistake and the can jump in with an "I told you so". The fact is, during the course of a game, most QBs will make bad throws. They all do it. Hell, even Brady and Manning and Brees and Rodgers do it.

What is evident is that he is progressing. He is not a completely finished product yet. But he is learning the game and learning what he can and can't do. he had a perfect pass to Watkins deep that did not work out. The pass to Chandler was great. He used his outlets well when he was flushed from the pocket.

The fact of the matter is they won today and the QB did not turn the ball over. Is he a bona fide star? Hell no

But let's not treat him like he is Bruce Mathison, Joe Dufek or Matt ****ing Kolfer either.

Why some people only want to focus on a few bad throws is beyond me. I get that they want the team to succeed. But why they can't be the least bit objective is confusing as all hell.

[Historian]

These have been great team wins....big plays by a lot of guys, especially on the D line and the special teams.

Manuel has been methodical and workmanlike in his approach.

Some of you guys don't deserve to call yourselves fans.

[Yasgur's Farm]

We need a No Whining Zone!

[CommissarSpartacus]

EJ was okay, but I admit I was worried about the succession of field goals, but he got better. Hackett is up and down too, the guys in the booth were laughing about predicting his play calls.

But overall we made Miami look REALLY BAD. They stunk.

How much of that was them and how much was us remainjs to be seen, but I'm certainly more optimiastic. We have a bunch of really good athletes. If EJ and Hackett can keep improving, we may not have to be embarrassed by the Bills this year.

[CommissarSpartacus]

EJ is now 6 and 6... Can you name any other Bills QB (not named Bledsoe) in the last 14 years that was .500?

Kelly Holcomb was 4 - 4 as a starter.

[Novacane]

He was not horrible inaccurate. That is just an absurd thing to say

He might have missed Watkins on that throw, although it is certainly possible that Watkins did not cut enough. He threw the ball before Watkins made his move.

But even if he did and threw the other two passes poorly (which those certainly he did) that does not make him "horribly inaccurate"

Unfortunately it seems that any discussion of him is, for some people, focused only when he does make a mistake and the can jump in with an "I told you so". The fact is, during the course of a game, most QBs will make bad throws. They all do it. Hell, even Brady and Manning and Brees and Rodgers do it.

What is evident is that he is progressing. He is not a completely finished product yet. But he is learning the game and learning what he can and can't do. he had a perfect pass to Watkins deep that did not work out. The pass to Chandler was great. He used his outlets well when he was flushed from the pocket.

The fact of the matter is they won today and the QB did not turn the ball over. Is he a bona fide star? Hell no

But let's not treat him like he is Bruce Mathison, Joe Dufek or Matt ****ing Kolfer either.

Why some people only want to focus on a few bad throws is beyond me. I get that they want the team to succeed. But why they can't be the least bit objective is confusing as all hell.


I don't know why it's confusing to you. It's pretty obvious to me. They have put their "message board reps" on the line by prematurely labeling EJ a bust. I truly believe there are a small handful of posters here that don't want EJ to succeed.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Kelly Holcomb was 4 - 4 as a starter.LOL... I'm not even gonna check your accuracy.. His favorite target was Larry Centers.

[psubills62]

Definitely wouldn't say that. He's missed some throws. But I don't know what other people are seeing, he's definitively improved in the games I'm watching. He's making more intermediate throws and throws down the middle. Not checking down as much. Also seems to be throwing to the right guys (even when he misses them).

Obviously no Peyton Manning, but he's doing pretty well. Don't feel he's making great decisions in the "zone read" runs, though. The one time he kept it, he was well defended.

[Yasgur's Farm]

He's in the 7.8 - 7.9 yards per attempt range and he's throwing to all parts of the field in all ranges... Not bad for 12 starts.

[GvilleBills]

For all my concerns about the dude, he's progressing and that's all I can ask.

He's not going to improve to Elite this year, or maybe ever. But the Bills can win with this

[Buffalogic]

Everybody wants him to succeed. But if you criticize him at all the Homers start crying and going off the deep end saying 'omg you want him to failll ohh the humanity'. Stop being little ***** drama queens and open your eyes.

The guy continuously shrivels up in the red zone because he is scared about his accuracy. If you can't see that you aren't watching the game.

[Dr. Lecter]

Everybody wants him to succeed. But if you criticize him at all the Homers start crying and going off the deep end saying 'omg you want him to failll ohh the humanity'. Stop being little ***** drama queens and open your eyes.

The guy continuously shrivels up in the red zone because he is scared about his accuracy. If you can't see that you aren't watching the game.
That's not the case at all.

People are fine with criticism when it is due. But when people go overboard and nitpick that is when people get upset.

I don't see anybody saying he was perfect. I do see a few not acknowledging that he has done anything well

[Buffalogic]

Going 1/7 in the red zone isn't good enough for an nfl qb regardless of what his name is or what team he plays for.

[Dr. Lecter]

Nobody said it was.

Although, as Op pointed out be fair - the last two drives they were playing it safe.

And it is not just the QB that gets evaluated on that stat.

[Novacane]

Going 1/7 in the red zone isn't good enough for an nfl qb regardless of what his name is or what team he plays for.


Nope. That's not good enough. He has to get better in the red zone. Now can you say something good that he did today?

[Mike]

That's not the case at all.

People are fine with criticism when it is due. But when people go overboard and nitpick that is when people get upset.

I don't see anybody saying he was perfect. I do see a few not acknowledging that he has done anything well

I think just about everyone acknowledges that sweet completion to Chandler and even the pass to Watkins (one he dropped).

[Buffalogic]

It's the qb's job above all to lead the offense to touchdowns.

EJ has been good at converting third downs. He's been much improved in that area the first two games as opposed to last year.

It's frustrating to watch though because even when he hits the open man, the ball location is so poor that the wr has to jump up 10 feet to catch it or turn around completely for it. We are leaving tons of yards after the catch and points on the field because it's a complete toss up whether the ball will be crazy over the receivers head or drilled right into their feet or anywhere in between.

It's like watching a student driver grind the gears in a ferrari and his parents saying 'great job honey' from the sidewalk.

[BertSquirtgum]

I was happy he didn't get intercepted. Robert Woods saved one.

[Novacane]

It's the qb's job above all to lead the offense to touchdowns.

EJ has been good at converting third downs. He's been much improved in that area the first two games as opposed to last year.

It's frustrating to watch though because even when he hits the open man, the ball location is so poor that the wr has to jump up 10 feet to catch it or turn around completely for it. We are leaving tons of yards after the catch and points on the field because it's a complete toss up whether the ball will be crazy over the receivers head or drilled right into their feet or anywhere in between.

It's like watching a student driver grind the gears in a ferrari and his parents saying 'great job honey' from the sidewalk.



That was a problem last week. Not so much this week.

[Gilly]

2 - 0!!! W-C, whine all u want it can't change it...

[Turf]

EJ missed an easy TD and another pass. He also had a wide open receiver on a streak down the middle on a 3rd down he ran on and came up short. But he managed the game, and didn't turn the ball over, like SF vs Chic tonight.

[Buffalogic]

That was a problem last week. Not so much this week.
First Watkins catch could have been a td if he didn't have to completely turn around. The woods slant would have been a TD. The Watkins slant would have been a TD.

He's been pretty good between the twenties, but the redzone stuff is very hard to watch.

[Oaf]

If we had drafted Cousins, our playoff streak might have been all over. Now, we'll have to ride and manage with EJ's accuracy issues. I do see an improvement this year though.

[Novacane]

I've already said the Woods play was a bad pass. He seemed to rush it when he didn't need to. The miss to Sammy may have been on EJ. It may have been on Sammy. We don't know he ran the right route. Even if it was EJ's fault he improved today. Let's hope he'll improve in the red zone. I think he will.

[Buffalogic]

I've already said the Woods play was a bad pass. He seemed to rush it when he didn't need to. The miss to Sammy may have been on EJ. It may have been on Sammy. We don't know he ran the right route. Even if it was EJ's fault he improved today. Let's hope he'll improve in the red zone. I think he will.Who cares what the route was? At the end of the day Sammy was wide open in the end zone for a touchdown and EJ couldn't make it happen. That's his fault, not Sammy's.

[ICRockets]

First Watkins catch could have been a td if he didn't have to completely turn around. The woods slant would have been a TD. The Watkins slant would have been a TD.

He's been pretty good between the twenties, but the redzone stuff is very hard to watch.

You get that these are things that human beings are capable of improving upon, right?

I'd also like to ask you to cut the "it's not good enough" bull****. We won 29-10. Every single thing we did today was good enough. That doesn't mean that everything we did today was good. But the only reasonable metric behind "good enough" is if it's followed by "to win". Any other meaning is entirely subjective and not even close to meriting conversation.

[Buffalogic]

You get that these are things that human beings are capable of improving upon, right?

I'd also like to ask you to cut the "it's not good enough" bull****. We won 29-10. Every single thing we did today was good enough. That doesn't mean that everything we did today was good. But the only reasonable metric behind "good enough" is if it's followed by "to win". Any other meaning is entirely subjective and not even close to meriting conversation.oh be quiet. We won because our defense played incredible and spiller took a kick to the house.

Were we giving Thad credit for the fins game last year we won 19-0?? The only difference in the games is a spiller kick return td and a field goal. Otherwise the qb performance was very comparable. So stop trying to give ej credit for what the team does when he is on the sideline.

[ICRockets]

oh be quiet. We won because our defense played incredible and spiller took a kick to the house.

Were we giving Thad credit for the fins game last year we won 19-0?? The only difference in the games is a spiller kick return td and a field goal. Otherwise the qb performance was very comparable. So stop trying to give ej credit for what the team does when he is on the sideline.

Cool story, bro.

[JoeMama]

Jesus Christ, I've always considered myself one of the most unnecessarily pessimistic and consistently negative Bills fans on this forum.

But some of you guys are making me look like a ****ing amateur.

We're 2-0 but some of you guys sound as hopeless as people on suicide watch.

Are we watching the same team?

Is this 2010 when we were getting blown out by 30 points every week en route to an 0-8 start?

Or is this 2014 where we're undefeated and sitting alone atop the AFC East after two weeks?

A friendly reminder:

It's okay to be happy sometimes.

[Buffalogic]

You can be happy to be 2-0 and still realize flaws that will bite us in the future. Sooner or later we are going to need our qb to perform well to win a game and when that happens I hope we don't go 1/7 in the red zone.

[JoeMama]

You can be happy to be 2-0 and still realize flaws that will bite us in the future. Sooner or later we are going to need our qb to perform well to win a game and when that happens I hope we don't go 1/7 in the red zone.

And that's why it's a 16 game season.

Marrone has something to take the team to task for in practice until they start to show some improvement.

For now, 2-0. I'll postpone my outrage for if/when we don't improve our dreary red zone efficiency.

[psubills62]

Jesus Christ, I've always considered myself one of the most unnecessarily pessimistic and consistently negative Bills fans on this forum.

But some of you guys are making me look like a ****ing amateur.

We're 2-0 but some of you guys sound as hopeless as people on suicide watch.

Are we watching the same team?

Is this 2010 when we were getting blown out by 30 points every week en route to an 0-8 start?

Or is this 2014 where we're undefeated and sitting alone atop the AFC East after two weeks?

A friendly reminder:

It's okay to be happy sometimes.Yeah, I have a hard time taking a number of people on here seriously.

[Dr. Lecter]

You keep saying 1-7. Which is technically true

But don't act like the last two possessions were like the rest

Hell, Op pointed this out. and his hardly a "homer"

So please - try to be more complete when you rant on the horribleness that is EJ

[psubills62]

It's a good thing we aren't going to play the exact same way every week.

Would rather have this offense than the ones who only knew of the red zone because the other teams made it there. Keep getting in the red zone 7 times a game and the TD's will come.

[Buffalogic]

You keep saying 1-7. Which is technically true

But don't act like the last two possessions were like the rest

Hell, Op pointed this out. and his hardly a "homer"

So please - try to be more complete when you rant on the horribleness that is EJ
Even if you want to throw away two trips on technicalities, 1/5 is still awful so that doesn't really help ej.

[Meathead]

do you know why obama refuses to send ground troops back into iraq to clean up the isis mess? because ej sucks

[pmoon6]

:rofl: "If ya ain't complainin', there must be something wrong". New Age America.

I have a comparison. In 2000, when Tom Brady replaced Bledsoe due to injury, he was less than impressive. The Patriots won games because of a stellar defense and a running game. Brady was a game manager, running a dink and dunk passing game. He passed for exactly 146 yards in the Super Bowl, most coming on the last drive that ended in a FIELD GOAL.

Brady was a young QB trying to get comfortable in the NFL. Fortunately for him, he was able to grow with a team that was successful. It bred the confidence that you have seen ever since. The same can be said for Roethlisberger. Can E.J. follow the same template? We don't know yet, but it's possible. He's gaining in confidence with every win.

That's the problem with quick assessments, they are sometimes wrong. If you look at alot of HOF QB's, they had meager beginnings. Montana road the bench for almost two years. Aikman was terrible his first two seasons. Even Peyton Manning took time to adapt. I could go on, but most of you know the stories.

E.J. stills needs alot of work, he is still guiding his passes and has to get more accurate, but he is improving. I look forward to watching his development and I'm not going to judge just yet.

Enjoy the ride, boyos, unless you want to strap on a helmet and compete for the starting job.

[swiper]

We should be up a whole lot more than we are right now. The Sammy Watkins miss was just terrible.

He could be worse. That throw to Chandler was something something I could watch a few more times.

[CommissarSpartacus]

It's obvious that EJ's still nervous in the red zone, leading to spastic throws.

Hopefully when he gets more comfortable, his accuracy will improve. His mechanics are fine. he just needs to get out of his own way.

[soapman]

We should be up a whole lot more than we are right now. The Sammy Watkins miss was just terrible.

Sammy ran that route way to skinny. EJ wasn't rushed and it APPEARED that he expected Sammy to break more towards the middle of the field. Sammy kept it skinny to avoid the safety. Miscommunication. They don't have the rapport just yet.

[SquishDaFish]

:rofl: "If ya ain't complainin', there must be something wrong". New Age America.

I have a comparison. In 2000, when Tom Brady replaced Bledsoe due to injury, he was less than impressive. The Patriots won games because of a stellar defense and a running game. Brady was a game manager, running a dink and dunk passing game. He passed for exactly 146 yards in the Super Bowl, most coming on the last drive that ended in a FIELD GOAL.

Brady was a young QB trying to get comfortable in the NFL. Fortunately for him, he was able to grow with a team that was successful. It bred the confidence that you have seen ever since. The same can be said for Roethlisberger. Can E.J. follow the same template? We don't know yet, but it's possible. He's gaining in confidence with every win.

That's the problem with quick assessments, they are sometimes wrong. If you look at alot of HOF QB's, they had meager beginnings. Montana road the bench for almost two years. Aikman was terrible his first two seasons. Even Peyton Manning took time to adapt. I could go on, but most of you know the stories.

E.J. stills needs alot of work, he is still guiding his passes and has to get more accurate, but he is improving. I look forward to watching his development and I'm not going to judge just yet.

Enjoy the ride, boyos, unless you want to strap on a helmet and compete for the starting job.

WELL SAID :clap:

[SquishDaFish]

Sammy ran that route way to skinny. EJ wasn't rushed and it APPEARED that he expected Sammy to break more towards the middle of the field. Sammy kept it skinny to avoid the safety. Miscommunication. They don't have the rapport just yet.

Dont go throwing facts out there like that. He was open should have been hit bla bla bla. Thats what the expert armchairs are saying. An NFL offense is all about communication and feel between the players. You throw where you think hes going to be based on the defense not where he is at. Thats how its done

[Dr. Lecter]

It's obvious that EJ's still nervous in the red zone, leading to spastic throws.

Hopefully when he gets more comfortable, his accuracy will improve. His mechanics are fine. he just needs to get out of his own way.
I agree. A lot of times I think it is confidence with him.

Just throw the ball. You have the ability and have receivers who will catch it

[Dr. Lecter]

Dont go throwing facts out there like that. He was open should have been hit bla bla bla. Thats what the expert armchairs are saying. An NFL offense is all about communication and feel between the players. You throw where you think hes going to be based on the defense not where he is at. Thats how its done

I don't know who was wrong on that pass. I will say, since I was sitting in that end, as soon as EJ threw the ball I looked down field and by the time I looked Watkins was just starting to cut. He threw it well before he made a move

Either one could have been wrong. Unless we know exactly how it was drawn up we can't be sure. It could be the 2nd year QB who does not have great accuracy. Or it could be the mega talented but still a rookie WR.

[notacon]

New Flash....Bills make Peter King's "Fine Fifteen" (http://mmqb.si.com/2014/09/15/monday-morning-qb-nfl-week-2/7/). His comment goes perfectly as to exactly how clueless the EJ haters out there are...



10. Buffalo (2-0). Bills 56, Foes 30. E.J. Manuel’s completing 67 percent. Two statoids I never thought I’d be writing after two weeks.

17094



Is a 67% completion rate and passer rating of 95.4 is "horribly inaccurate"??? I don't think so. Time to get the negative glasses cleaned, and slow down the beer drinking.

[Mike]

:rofl: "If ya ain't complainin', there must be something wrong". New Age America.

I have a comparison. In 2000, when Tom Brady replaced Bledsoe due to injury, he was less than impressive. The Patriots won games because of a stellar defense and a running game. Brady was a game manager, running a dink and dunk passing game. He passed for exactly 146 yards in the Super Bowl, most coming on the last drive that ended in a FIELD GOAL.

Brady was a young QB trying to get comfortable in the NFL. Fortunately for him, he was able to grow with a team that was successful. It bred the confidence that you have seen ever since. The same can be said for Roethlisberger. Can E.J. follow the same template? We don't know yet, but it's possible. He's gaining in confidence with every win.

That's the problem with quick assessments, they are sometimes wrong. If you look at alot of HOF QB's, they had meager beginnings. Montana road the bench for almost two years. Aikman was terrible his first two seasons. Even Peyton Manning took time to adapt. I could go on, but most of you know the stories.

E.J. stills needs alot of work, he is still guiding his passes and has to get more accurate, but he is improving. I look forward to watching his development and I'm not going to judge just yet.

Enjoy the ride, boyos, unless you want to strap on a helmet and compete for the starting job.

Are Your Reay comparing EJ to Brady....

[Buffalogic]

Sammy ran that route way to skinny. EJ wasn't rushed and it APPEARED that he expected Sammy to break more towards the middle of the field. Sammy kept it skinny to avoid the safety. Miscommunication. They don't have the rapport just yet.Open is open. Guessing that Sammy ran the wrong route to save EJ is a horrible argument. So the qb can't make an adjustment during a play? Ridiculous. Real qb's make plays when the original concept breaks down. The guy is wide open in the end zone it should be a touchdown.

You want to blame our receiver for getting wide open in the end zone just so we can make an excuse for our QB who clearly ****ed that up. It's the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard.

[Buffalogic]

New Flash....Bills make Peter King's "Fine Fifteen" (http://mmqb.si.com/2014/09/15/monday-morning-qb-nfl-week-2/7/). His comment goes perfectly as to exactly how clueless the EJ haters out there are...



Is a 67% completion rate and passer rating of 95.4 is "horribly inaccurate"??? I don't think so. Time to get the negative glasses cleaned, and slow down the beer drinking.
Oh my god it is about situational football and not an overall stat line. He's not putting up touchdowns with multiple attempts when we need the points. Then people defend him and say our receivers are wrong for being open. It's insane.

[soapman]

Open is open. Guessing that Sammy ran the wrong route to save EJ is a horrible argument. So the qb can't make an adjustment during a play? Ridiculous. Real qb's make plays when the original concept breaks down. The guy is wide open in the end zone it should be a touchdown.

You want to blame our receiver for getting wide open in the end zone just so we can make an excuse for our QB who clearly ****ed that up. It's the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard.

If he throws that pass to where Sammy was and Sammy makes his cut you are saying the same thing. It's a communication thing. Yes he should be able to adjust but if he's throwing the ball where Sammy SHOULD be and based on what I saw away from the coverage, you can't really blame him. As they play more together these things won''t happen as much, but it's growing pains.

[jimmifli]

Are Your Reay comparing EJ to Brady....
No. He used Brady as an example of why early success (whether earned or not) is important for QBs to develop.

[Novacane]

Open is open. Guessing that Sammy ran the wrong route to save EJ is a horrible argument. So the qb can't make an adjustment during a play? Ridiculous. Real qb's make plays when the original concept breaks down. The guy is wide open in the end zone it should be a touchdown.

You want to blame our receiver for getting wide open in the end zone just so we can make an excuse for our QB who clearly ****ed that up. It's the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard.


The throw was made before Sammy made his cut. That happens on more passes then not in the NFL. If the WR isn't in the right spot the QB will look bad. To say you know who missed that play is ludicrous.

[notacon]

Open is open. Guessing that Sammy ran the wrong route to save EJ is a horrible argument. So the qb can't make an adjustment during a play? Ridiculous. Real qb's make plays when the original concept breaks down. The guy is wide open in the end zone it should be a touchdown.

You want to blame our receiver for getting wide open in the end zone just so we can make an excuse for our QB who clearly ****ed that up. It's the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard.


Oh my god it is about situational football and not an overall stat line. He's not putting up touchdowns with multiple attempts when we need the points. Then people defend him and say our receivers are wrong for being open. It's insane.

You do not have the first idea what you are talking about.

Incredibly ignorant.

[better days]

Oh my god it is about situational football and not an overall stat line. He's not putting up touchdowns with multiple attempts when we need the points. Then people defend him and say our receivers are wrong for being open. It's insane.

You know what is insane?

People *****ing about EJ & the Bills when they are 2-0.

[Buffalogic]

You do not have the first idea what you are talking about.

Incredibly ignorant.
Cool reply. Really did a lot for the thread. And nice points to back up your argument.

We left a lot of points on the field. The reason we left those points on the field is primarily because of the quarterback. There is no denying that, unless you want to be a homer and say it wasn't actually 7 red zone attempts, it was five. No, wait, actually it was 4 because Sammy ran the wrong route and he's wrong for being open. So a 1/7 performance turns into a 1/4 performance with apologies made for our worse offensive player, but guess what, even after all the excuses 1/4 is still horrible.

I want EJ to succeed but I'm not going to throw a party for the guy when he played a very small role in the win.

- - - Updated - - -


You know what is insane?

People *****ing about EJ & the Bills when they are 2-0.
Give EJ more credit for what the defense and spiller do. That's how you evaluate an NFL qb and don't let anyone tell you differently!

[Yasgur's Farm]

Give it a rest WC... Nobody's giving EJ more credit for the win than the D or CJ... They're simply disputing the "Horribly Inaccurate" thread title.

Fact is that he shows progress period.

[Buffalogic]

Give it a rest WC... Nobody's giving EJ more credit for the win than the D or CJ... They're simply disputing the "Horribly Inaccurate" thread title.

Fact is that he shows progress period.
Sorry 1/7 inside the opponents 20 yard line is not progress. We were 1/7 because EJ was horribly innacurate.

[Downinfloflo]

It's obvious that EJ's still nervous in the red zone, leading to spastic throws.

Hopefully when he gets more comfortable, his accuracy will improve. His mechanics are fine. he just needs to get out of his own way.

Well......Easier to fix someones mechanical issues then it is their mental ones.

[notacon]

Cool reply. Really did a lot for the thread. And nice points to back up your argument.



Oh please. I DID present many points. You ignore reality. You, on the other hand, are prone to hyperbole and are not very convincing.

I don't care one whit how many points we "left on the field"...as long as there are more than the other team. That is all that matters.

If EJ plays like he did the past two games, we will be on the winning side many more times than not.

You are defending a demonstrable lie, that Ej is "horribly inaccurate". Anything else you say is nonsense because the premise is fatally flawed as evidenced by facts.

[SquishDaFish]

Well......Easier to fix someones mechanical issues then it is their mental ones.

Too bad we cant fix stupid. Like couple of certain posters here

[Buffalogic]

Oh please. I DID present many points. You ignore reality. You, on the other hand, are prone to hyperbole and are not very convincing.

I don't care one whit how many points we "left on the field"...as long as there are more than the other team. That is all that matters.

If EJ plays like he did the past two games, we will be on the winning side many more times than not.

You are defending a demonstrable lie, that Ej is "horribly inaccurate". Anything else you say is nonsense because the premise is fatally flawed as evidenced by facts.1/7 in the redzone where he missed multiple gimme touchdowns supports my horribly innacurate comment. You have nothing to support that you are anything but an apologist.

[Buffalogic]

Too bad we cant fix stupid. Like couple of certain posters here
Squish you are living in fairy land as usual. You are fighting something that was completely obvious that everyone in the world who watched the game saw, except for a certain faction of bills fans who won't acknowledge that QB is our worst player and we win in spite of him not because of him. Just keep your head in the sand.

[ryjam282]

We'll face a team sooner or later that we aren't able to run against and EJ will have to pass to keep us in it....That's when all the EJ-ostriches will hopefully take their heads out of the sand. While I'm happy with the win, it was still against a bad Dolphins team who only beat the Pats because of the weather down south, IMO. I just hope the Bills can keep the momentum going and get some confidence as the season progresses.

[Bill Cody]

Two Wagon Circlers competing for the title of who can make the most douche posts after a big win. Classic Bills Zone.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Well......Easier to fix someones mechanical issues then it is their mental ones.

Sounds cute but if you actually think about it...

Only sociopaths don't feel nervousness, because nerves stem from worrying about how OTHER people feel.

Will he get over them? Maybe, maybe not.

But it's not an issue yet.

I'd be worried if he was nervous all the time, but he isn't.

generally, success breeds success, so winning is a good thing for a qb's development.

Look, I haven't said EJ won't be a bust, but it's looking less likely that it was two weeks ago.

Why should I be upset that he isn't perfect yet?

[Downinfloflo]

Sounds cute but if you actually think about it...

Only sociopaths don't feel nervousness, because nerves stem from worrying about how OTHER people feel.

Will he get over them? Maybe, maybe not.

But it's not an issue yet.

I'd be worried if he was nervous all the time, but he isn't.

generally, success breeds success, so winning is a good thing for a qb's development.

Look, I haven't said EJ won't be a bust, but it's looking less likely that it was two weeks ago.

Why should I be upset that he isn't perfect yet?

I never told you what you should feel or suggested how you should feel.

The Bills (E.J) missed way to many shots to score TD's.

The D won yesterdays game, If your D holds a NFL team to only 10 points, You better win.

Right now, E.J is doing what Timmy boy did for the Broncos..Riding the coat tales of his defense.

[JoeMama]

No. He used Brady as an example of why early success (whether earned or not) is important for QBs to develop.

Yeah people forget how slowly Charlie Weiss brought Tom Brady along.

Brady was known as a gimmicky dink and dunk passer early in his career. The general consensus on this forum and the range was that Brady was a flash in the pan whose bubble would eventually burst.

But they slowly let him start to air it out and by 2004 he was a very polished passer.

I don't think anyone has that in mind for EJ but the point is a valid one about early success being something to build on.

[starrymessenger]

I think both the pro and con EJ camps have legitimate arguments.
Re "pro", EJ looks to be more accurate than he was last year. I noticed it in the pre-season when he only overthrew Watkins by a step or two on a long ball that would have hit the guy selling hotdogs in row 5 only last year. Then against the Bears, I saw him do it again (overthrow Watkins by a step or two). I was hoping that he was just getting his timing down with SM and ya know what maybe he was because but for a great Brent Grimes play he had a long TD pass to Sammy yesterday. The throw to Chandler was also on the money, assuming it was not pure accident. Generally so far he has been pretty good at protecting the football and avoiding really ugly turnovers. In seeing him game manage what comes to mind is Big Ben when he first came in and played as a rook. With the benefit of hindsight we know BR to be a great QB but the impression I had first seeing him was that if they had tried to put more on his plate his game would have come undone. His middle level game management seemed to me to be fragile, a bit like EJ's. They are handling him the way the Steelers handled Ben. So maybe EJ can continue to improve. And what has been said about good QBs also making poor throws is absolutely true (though of course good QBs also make lots of tough throws.
Of course he will have to improve because his game right now is just not good enuf. Red zone (in)efficiency is especially telling here because that's where the demands on the QB's abilities are the greatest, where ball placement, vision, quick decision making and accuracy are most in demand. And since these are essentially the all important qualities most needed to play the position well in the first place, it's a useful measure of where the guy is now, which is not really a good place.
and frankly it still looks to me like he continues to stare down his primary receiver too much (though it's fine to do it sometimes-I saw Jay Cutler do it quite a lot with considerable success yesterday).
The thing that's frustrating of course is that with good To above average QB play the Bills are a team ready to make some noise, and without it is unlikely that they will be able to compete with any expectation of success.

[notacon]

1/7 in the redzone where he missed multiple gimme touchdowns supports my horribly innacurate comment. You have nothing to support that you are anything but an apologist.

Actually, it was 1-6 (http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/72030/the-film-dont-lie-bills). Why can't you get simple facts straight? 3 of the drives had a running play as the last one before kicking a FG. Fred Jackson gained zero yards in six red zone runs. Why don't you start a stupid thread that says the Freddie is "horribly ineffective" running back that cannot gain any yards? Certainly the WHOLE offense has to pick up their game to succeed going forward. The play calling must be more creative. The O-line must block better. EJ has to be more accurate in the red zone. THAT is a realistic accounting of what happened yesterday. According to the piece I linked to:



Two of EJ Manuel (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/15803/ej-manuel?ex_cid=null)'s passes in the red zone -- incompletions to Robert Woods (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/15880/robert-woods?ex_cid=null) and Mike Williams (http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/_/id/13489/mike-williams?ex_cid=null)-- were off-target passes, a reminder that the Bills likely will need to run better in the red zone if they want to improve their efficiency rate.


Sorry....but two passes missing their mark in the Red Zone does not mean he is "horribly inaccurate".

I am not an "apologist"...just a truth teller and a realist. There are many, many reasons that drive falters in the red zone...play calling, bad routes, missed blocking assignments...and, yes, inaccurate throws. There are no "gimme" touchdowns in the NFL. This type of stupid comment shows why you have zero credibility.

The inaccurate throws from EJ were one of the factors for not finishing red zone drives. Not the most important one. He has not been "horribly inaccurate" by any definition of both of those words.

You are a troll, who wants to show what a great analyst you are by trashing whatever the QB does. It's really quite childish and ignorant seeing that the Dolphins were routed.

YOU have nothing to support your premise exact hubris and bravado. I, and many other posters, are not impressed.

[starrymessenger]

Actually, it was 1-6 (http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/72030/the-film-dont-lie-bills). Why can't you get simple facts straight? 3 of the drives had a running play as the last one before kicking a FG. Fred Jackson gained zero yards in six red zone runs. Why don't you start a stupid thread that says the Freddie is "horribly ineffective" running back that cannot gain any yards? Certainly the WHOLE offense has to pick up their game to succeed going forward. The play calling must be more creative. The O-line must block better. EJ has to be more accurate in the red zone. THAT is a realistic accounting of what happened yesterday. According to the piece I linked to:



Sorry....but two passes missing their mark in the Red Zone does not mean he is "horribly inaccurate".

I am not an "apologist"...just a truth teller and a realist. There are many, many reasons that drive falters in the red zone...play calling, bad routes, missed blocking assignments...and, yes, inaccurate throws. There are no "gimme" touchdowns in the NFL. This type of stupid comment shows why you have zero credibility.

The inaccurate throws from EJ were one of the factors for not finishing red zone drives. Not the most important one. He has not been "horribly inaccurate" by any definition of both of those words.

You are a troll, who wants to show what a great analyst you are by trashing whatever the QB does. It's really quite childish and ignorant seeing that the Dolphins were routed.

YOU have nothing to support your premise exact hubris and bravado. I, and many other posters, are not impressed.

When the opposition fully expects you to run in the red zone and you do, there are two things to bear in mind. One is that in the NFL your run game is not likely to succeed. Second, if they expect the run your chances of successfully passing are increased (and that may be why SW and Woods were so wide open)
So why do you think they run so much in the red zone? It's because they are afraid of turnovers and losing three sure points. That philosophy is not going to win you many championships. You need to play with more of an edge, get them to worry about both run and pass as credible options, in which case the run should be more productive, and have the proven ability to back it up.

[Dr. Lecter]

Open is open. Guessing that Sammy ran the wrong route to save EJ is a horrible argument. So the qb can't make an adjustment during a play? Ridiculous. Real qb's make plays when the original concept breaks down. The guy is wide open in the end zone it should be a touchdown.

You want to blame our receiver for getting wide open in the end zone just so we can make an excuse for our QB who clearly ****ed that up. It's the most ludicrous thing I have ever heard.

No.

Did you read what was written?

He threw the ball before he made the move. He threw it to a spot, not a person.

What we don't know is if EJ threw it to the wrong spot or if Watkins ran to the wrong spot.

I am sorry, but if you don't get that concept you have a sore lack of understanding on how routes are run in the NFL and how and when passes are thrown

[Dr. Lecter]

1/7 in the redzone where he missed multiple gimme touchdowns supports my horribly innacurate comment. You have nothing to support that you are anything but an apologist.

Multiple gimme touchdowns?

Really?

I must have missed those plays

[YardRat]

The pass to Woods was poor.
The pass to Watkins is debatable. Might've been a perfect pass if Watkins ran the route right instead of flattening it out, or it might've been a bad pass.
Big deal. **** like that happens to every QB, every game.

[pmoon6]

Are Your Reay comparing EJ to Brady....No, only a brain dead moron would think so.

May I suggest "Hooked On Phonics" to improve...er... relearn how to read.

Maybe you and Wagon Circlejerker can attend the same classes.

[pmoon6]

Multiple gimme touchdowns?

Really?

I must have missed those playsYou couldn't see, you were actually at the game.

Wagon Circlejerker got to see it in super slo mo and he knows stuff.

Secret stuff.

[pmoon6]

No. He used Brady as an example of why early success (whether earned or not) is important for QBs to develop.Thanks Jimmi.

BTW, I was going to add "..and no, I'm not comparing E.J. to Tom Brady or Ben Roethlisberger" for the mentally challenged, but I had to get to work.

[Buffalogic]

Actually, it was 1-6 (http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/72030/the-film-dont-lie-bills). Why can't you get simple facts straight? 3 of the drives had a running play as the last one before kicking a FG. Fred Jackson gained zero yards in six red zone runs. Why don't you start a stupid thread that says the Freddie is "horribly ineffective" running back that cannot gain any yards? Certainly the WHOLE offense has to pick up their game to succeed going forward. The play calling must be more creative. The O-line must block better. EJ has to be more accurate in the red zone. THAT is a realistic accounting of what happened yesterday. According to the piece I linked to:



Sorry....but two passes missing their mark in the Red Zone does not mean he is "horribly inaccurate".

I am not an "apologist"...just a truth teller and a realist. There are many, many reasons that drive falters in the red zone...play calling, bad routes, missed blocking assignments...and, yes, inaccurate throws. There are no "gimme" touchdowns in the NFL. This type of stupid comment shows why you have zero credibility.

The inaccurate throws from EJ were one of the factors for not finishing red zone drives. Not the most important one. He has not been "horribly inaccurate" by any definition of both of those words.

You are a troll, who wants to show what a great analyst you are by trashing whatever the QB does. It's really quite childish and ignorant seeing that the Dolphins were routed.

YOU have nothing to support your premise exact hubris and bravado. I, and many other posters, are not impressed.
Fred Jackson didn't miss multiple open holes like EJ missed open receivers. I don't need you to be impressed because you aren't even smart enough to know you are wrong.

[Buffalogic]

No.

Did you read what was written?

He threw the ball before he made the move. He threw it to a spot, not a person.

What we don't know is if EJ threw it to the wrong spot or if Watkins ran to the wrong spot.

I am sorry, but if you don't get that concept you have a sore lack of understanding on how routes are run in the NFL and how and when passes are thrownThis is also flawed logic. Why would he have to throw to a spot? Why is he committed to that? He isn't. But you people keep saying he was and that Watkins wasn't at the right spot. The guy is open the entire play. If EJ can't judge where he is going to end up while that play is developing right before his eyes, then that's robotic and idiotic.

People are thanking your post basically agreeing that EJ is too ******ed to adjust and forces it to a magical designated spot regardless of what happens after the snap. There's no argument on the planet that excuses EJ from not converting that touchdown but you biased fools would rather say asinine things than criticize our soft QB.

Watkins play and both slants were gimme TD's for any real qb. Stop lying to yourselves.

[Buffalogic]

Our offense lived in fins territory all game and our offense only managed to score one touchdown. How is that progress? We had amazing field position all game and still couldn't get it done. Even the worst offenses in the league are going to get field goals when starting drives at the 40 yard line repeatedly over the course of the game.

[jimmifli]

We'll face a team sooner or later that we aren't able to run against and EJ will have to pass to keep us in it....That's when all the EJ-ostriches will hopefully take their heads out of the sand.
Really? Do you see anyone hear claiming EJ can win without a strong run game, that he can carry the offense on his own? I don't see that claim being made.

[jimmifli]

This is also flawed logic. Why would he have to throw to a spot? Why is he committed to that?
Because that's how plays work in the NFL. You should be embarrassed that you still don't understand and keep ignoring people that are telling you how football is played.


But you people keep saying he was and that Watkins wasn't at the right spot.
Nope. They are saying one of them made a mistake. We don't know which. But it wasn't a wildly off target throw. It went exactly where EJ intended to throw it.


The guy is open the entire play. If EJ can't judge where he is going to end up while that play is developing right before his eyes, then that's robotic and idiotic.
If EJ looks at Sammy before the break he'll tip the safety. He's intentionally not looking at Sammy until just before the break when he releases the ball.


People are thanking your post basically agreeing that EJ is too ******ed to adjust and forces it to a magical designated spot regardless of what happens after the snap. There's no argument on the planet that excuses EJ from not converting that touchdown but you biased fools would rather say asinine things than criticize our soft QB.
You really don't understand that play.

[Dr. Lecter]

This is also flawed logic. Why would he have to throw to a spot? Why is he committed to that? He isn't. But you people keep saying he was and that Watkins wasn't at the right spot. The guy is open the entire play. If EJ can't judge where he is going to end up while that play is developing right before his eyes, then that's robotic and idiotic.

People are thanking your post basically agreeing that EJ is too ******ed to adjust and forces it to a magical designated spot regardless of what happens after the snap. There's no argument on the planet that excuses EJ from not converting that touchdown but you biased fools would rather say asinine things than criticize our soft QB.

Watkins play and both slants were gimme TD's for any real qb. Stop lying to yourselves.


You can't be serious. You can't be.

NFL QBs routinely throw to a spot on the field. These are called timing routes.

The players in the NFL are fast. Very fast. It is not like us throwing in our backyard. To get the ball to the WR the QB will throw to a spot and the receiver is supposed to be there.

Like I said, more than once, he threw the ball before Watkins made his cut into the end zone.

You can believe this or not.

And no, nobody is saying that Watkins was not at the right spot. What we are saying, and have said time and time and time and time again is that we don't know if it was the wrong route or the wrong pass.

[Night Train]

You can't be serious. You can't be.
NFL QBs routinely throw to a spot on the field. These are called timing routes.


Sounds like he has the football acumen of a door knob. No sense debating.

Reed probably caught 300 passes from Kelly, with the ball being delivered to the spot before Reed came out of his break. Timing routes have been around for decades.

I am now starting to understand all these idiot savants/realists I'm putting on ignore. They know very little about football.

[DraftBoy]

For the record on the Watkins v. EJ spot. It could be a lot of different issues beyond just a wrong route v. wrong throw discussion. For example if Watkins reads double high safeties presnap he's going to run a skinnier post. However if postsnap EJ sees the safety creep up he's going to lead Watkins wider on the post to hit the open area for a score.

Could of been a hot read that wasn't communicated properly or understood fully.

There is too much we don't know about that play call and read to decide who may be to blame.

The important part of the play is that EJ isn't tipping the throw. He's looking off the safety and giving Watkins the chance to get open and then go get the ball.

[Dr. Lecter]

Then that is the wrong route - Watkins did not make the postsnap read

I don't want to nitpick you, but ultimately that is still the wrong route

Regardless, the idea that a QB does not throw to a spot is wrong as wrong can be

[Fletch]

Then that is the wrong route - Watkins did not make the postsnap read

I don't want to nitpick you, but ultimately that is still the wrong route

Regardless, the idea that a QB does not throw to a spot is wrong as wrong can be

That's really a part of a QB-WR relationship. Some QBs like Brady are really good at adjusting like that.

I'm not taking issue with the notion that QBs don't throw to a spot, Brady does too, obviously, but some QBs recognize when coverage is there and between them and certain receivers they have a knack for breaking that coverage. Brady's very good at it. It takes time and getting used to one another to do it, it's not something that typically develops in one season.

[Dr. Lecter]

That's really a part of a QB-WR relationship. Some QBs like Brady are really good at adjusting like that.

I'm not taking issue with the notion that QBs don't throw to a spot, Brady does too, obviously, but some QBs recognize when coverage is there and between them and certain receivers they have a knack for breaking that coverage. Brady's very good at it. It takes time and getting used to one another to do it, it's not something that typically develops in one season.

Be careful saying that. You'll be called an EJ lover!!!! ;)

[Buffalogic]

Of course there are timing routes in the NFL. Nobody is arguing that. Yes the ball is thrown before the receiver comes out of his break. But where the ball is being thrown to is in relation to the receivers route. It's the QB's job to make the ball intersect with the open receiver whether the pass is a timing route or not.

Even the apologetic argument that EJ was looking off the safety is flawed. The ball was missed because it was too close to the safety side. He didn't miss to the right, he missed to the left and that is where the safety was closer to. So EJ, looking off the safety, chose to throw the ball CLOSER to the safety than in the open spot where his receiver was all alone and would have caught the pass? Listen to how dumb that sounds. And why would the receiver try and run CLOSER to the player that is defending him in order to make the catch?? Any way you try to look at it to minimize the blame for EJ, HE MADE AND ERRANT THROW THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A TOUCHDOWN.

The posters who don't understand the game are obvious to see. They just dismiss things that their puny brains can't wrap their heads around Jimmifli, Night Train, Squish, etc. If you want to be a homer that's fine, just don't try to analyze the game because it's painful how obtuse some of you are.

[WagonCircler]

All I know is, I watch guys like Luck and Foles and Rivers and Wilson and their passes are between the numbers on the jerseys, not the numbers on the field.

Of course QBs throw to spots on some patterns. But so many of EJs throws are so ridiculously errant that they can't have been intended to go where they do.

I don't care if this is his 12th start or his first start, he has a serious accuracy problem.

It hasn't been as much of an issue thanks to outstanding pass protection--but it's been way more an issue than it should.

What concerns me is that there will be games where the protection isn't as good, and it will wreak havoc on his already shaky accuracy.

And the reluctance to throw anything but short passes will be adjusted to by Defensive Coordinators.

[Buffalogic]

All I know is, I watch guys like Luck and Foles and Rivers and Wilson and their passes are between the numbers on the jerseys, not the numbers on the field.

Of course QBs throw to spots on some patterns. But so many of EJs throws are so ridiculously errant that they can't have been intended to go where they do.

I don't care if this is his 12th start or his first start, he has a serious accuracy problem.

It hasn't been as much of an issue thanks to outstanding pass protection--but it's been way more an issue than it should.

What concerns me is that there will be games where the protection isn't as good, and it will wreak havoc on his already shaky accuracy.

And the reluctance to throw anything but short passes will be adjusted to by Defensive Coordinators.I mean we have our differences, but at least you can see and understand what is going on at the field level. Some of these people either don't want to admit it or just don't understand it. Either way both frustrate the hell out of me.

[ICRockets]

And the reluctance to throw anything but short passes will be adjusted to by Defensive Coordinators.

Have you actually watched either regular season game? EJ is airing it out on the regular.

- - - Updated - - -


I mean we have our differences

You really don't.

[Dr. Lecter]

And the reluctance to throw anything but short passes will be adjusted to by Defensive Coordinators.


The Bills are 5th in the NFL in passes over 20 yards

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH&tabSeq=2&season=2014&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=false

His reputation for only checking down was much more deserved last year. Not as true this year

[justasportsfan]

oh be quiet. We won because our defense played incredible and spiller took a kick to the house.



it was an all around team win.

[swiper]

Have you actually watched either regular season game? EJ is airing it out on the regular.


You obviously haven't. They shut him down throwing in the second half of the Chicago game. And take away Sammy Watkins catches in the Miami, and add up the WR yards. YOU obviously aren't watching the games.

[swiper]

it was an all around team win.

No. I don't feel like Marcus Easley contributed enough.

[stuckincincy]

The Bills are 5th in the NFL in passes over 20 yards

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH&tabSeq=2&season=2014&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=false

His reputation for only checking down was much more deserved last year. Not as true this year

It is encouraging, but this needs to be revisited come game #10 or so. The first few games of a season are filled with all kinds of stats that point good for this club, this player, and poor for that one.

[Dr. Lecter]

You obviously haven't. They shut him down throwing in the second half of the Chicago game. And take away Sammy Watkins catches in the Miami, and add up the WR yards. YOU obviously aren't watching the games.

Good thing that Sammy Watkins was here. You can't just take them away

[Buffalogic]

The Bills are 5th in the NFL in passes over 20 yards

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH&tabSeq=2&season=2014&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=false

His reputation for only checking down was much more deserved last year. Not as true this year
0 at 40+ yards. Not good.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Why are some people always in such a hurry to make such sweeping proclamations around here.

He isn't a pro bowler, he isn't good enough to win us a football game yet, but he is improving and has played well enough to win even when the running game is average.

I'm starting to get more confident in him. For a young QB he is playing how you want him to play. As he gains confidence hopefully the other things will fall into place.

[Dr. Lecter]

0 at 40+ yards. Not good.

Yep. Although he was spot on when throwing to Watkins this last game.But I am sure that is his fault too.
And it should also be noted that Seattle, Carolina, San Francisco and San Diego also have 0 passes over 40 yards too.

Do their QBs suck?

[WagonCircler]

Why are some people always in such a hurry to make such sweeping proclamations around here.

He isn't a pro bowler, he isn't good enough to win us a football game yet, but he is improving and has played well enough to win even when the running game is average.

I'm starting to get more confident in him. For a young QB he is playing how you want him to play. As he gains confidence hopefully the other things will fall into place.

Two reasons:

We've become experts at quickly identifying false messiahs at the QB position after having been fed a steady stream of them for a decade.

We have eyes, which we use to watch real deal NFL QBs, and it's night and day, regardless of "he's only on his 12th NFL start" nonsense.

EJ has been asked to do next to nothing and has barely accomplished that.

This team could go to the playoffs with a legit QB. EJ is not one, at this point. Some of us feel that we've seen this exact guy a few times before, but with a different name on his jersey.

[WagonCircler]

Yep. Although he was spot on when throwing to Watkins this last game.But I am sure that is his fault too.
And it should also be noted that Seattle, Carolina, San Francisco and San Diego also have 0 passes over 40 yards too.

Defenses will figure out a way to stop the short passing game. They always do. They did last year. It's not that difficult when you have no vertical threat.

Last year they were daring the Bills to throw downfield. And they didn't (unless Thad was playing). And we lost.

And it will happen again.

[Dr. Lecter]

Your short passing game meme has already been shot down

Of course, it is only two games and that is hardly a significant sample size.

But this year has not been a year of constant short passes

[WagonCircler]

Your short passing game meme has already been shot down

Of course, it is only two games and that is hardly a significant sample size.

But this year has not been a year of constant short passes

*********. If you pay no attention to RAC, maybe. But that would be delusional.

Those slant patterns to Sammy make those numbers what they are, and those will soon be defended against.

Then Trent Manuel will be forced to go vertical. And the Bills will be fuct.

[DraftBoy]

Then that is the wrong route - Watkins did not make the postsnap read

I don't want to nitpick you, but ultimately that is still the wrong route

Regardless, the idea that a QB does not throw to a spot is wrong as wrong can be

Not always, depends on the call. Some routes are based on pre-snap reads alone and some on post-snap reads. Like I said could be a number of things.

Agreed.

[Dr. Lecter]

*********. If you pay no attention to RAC, maybe. But that would be delusional.

Those slant patterns to Sammy make those numbers what they are, and those will soon be defended against.

Then Trent Manuel will be forced to go vertical. And the Bills will be fuct.


Except it has not all been RAC.

[Dr. Lecter]

Not always, depends on the call. Some routes are based on pre-snap reads alone and some on post-snap reads. Like I said could be a number of things.

Agreed.


My point is, that if one used the pre-snap read and the other a post-snap read one still messed up. It was either thrown to the wrong spot or was the wrong route.

[Mike]

Dont go throwing facts out there like that. He was open should have been hit bla bla bla. Thats what the expert armchairs are saying. An NFL offense is all about communication and feel between the players. You throw where you think hes going to be based on the defense not where he is at. Thats how its done

Look at the end of the day... When QBs & WR miss opportunities like that, they lose to good teams.

[Downinfloflo]

Yep. Although he was spot on when throwing to Watkins this last game.But I am sure that is his fault too.
And it should also be noted that Seattle, Carolina, San Francisco and San Diego also have 0 passes over 40 yards too.

Do their QBs suck?

:rofl:

How many winning seasons have those teams had in the last 14 years?

Did Seattle just win the Super Bowl? Were the 49'ers just in the Super Bowl?

[DraftBoy]

My point is, that if one used the pre-snap read and the other a post-snap read one still messed up. It was either thrown to the wrong spot or was the wrong route.

I think that's a over simplification of the offensive call and requirements. It's not worth really getting into because neither of us can actually prove anything right or wrong. We'll have to agree to disagree.

[Downinfloflo]

The Bills are 5th in the NFL in passes over 20 yards

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASSING&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_20PLUS_YARDS_EACH&tabSeq=2&season=2014&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=false

His reputation for only checking down was much more deserved last year. Not as true this year

Could it be because he dumps the ball off 2 yards down the field, And the running backs do the rest?

[Buffalogic]

I think that's a over simplification of the offensive call and requirements. It's not worth really getting into because neither of us can actually prove anything right or wrong. We'll have to agree to disagree.
The bottom line is should that have been a touchdown? Yes or no? And do you see pro bowl QB's miss that type of throw for a touchdown? Yes or No?

[Buffalogic]

Could it be because he dumps the ball off 2 yards down the field, And the running backs do the rest?And it is 20 yards. Is that long or something? It is not. Seattle gets away without having a deep threat because their Playcaller is very inventive. Ours, haha is not.

[Buffalogic]

Yep. Although he was spot on when throwing to Watkins this last game.But I am sure that is his fault too.
And it should also be noted that Seattle, Carolina, San Francisco and San Diego also have 0 passes over 40 yards too.

Do their QBs suck?
Running QB, Running QB, Running QB, Noodle Arm.

[justasportsfan]

Flash Goodwin needs to make an appearance this sunday.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Look at the end of the day... When QBs & WR miss opportunities like that, they lose to good teams.

Our QB played a total of 12 games and the receiver played 2 games in their NFL career thus far. Can we give them some time?

EJ has thrown one deep pass each game without connecting. If I were Marrone, I'd not even call those plays. If they give me what Miami has given me, just keep doing what I'm doing because it is working and I'm winning. No need to show my hidden hand if I don't have to. When they managed to stop me, then I turn to that playbook page.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Two reasons:

We've become experts at quickly identifying false messiahs at the QB position after having been fed a steady stream of them for a decade.

We have eyes, which we use to watch real deal NFL QBs, and it's night and day, regardless of "he's only on his 12th NFL start" nonsense.

EJ has been asked to do next to nothing and has barely accomplished that.

This team could go to the playoffs with a legit QB. EJ is not one, at this point. Some of us feel that we've seen this exact guy a few times before, but with a different name on his jersey.

Well I don't think he is a legit QB who can take us to the playoffs right now either. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that he has shown a bit of poise and confidence that makes me think he may grow into the QB we need. I'm not allowing the failures of any past QBs impact my analysis, and I really think others should do the same.

I guess we saw two different things in the past 2 weeks. I'm not going to go toe to toe with you on experience at the Bills pulling a fast one on us over the years as you've seen a lot. I'm just staying positive until we start losing this season.

[Mad Bomber]

Could it be because he dumps the ball off 2 yards down the field, And the running backs do the rest?

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Sammy-Watkins-vs-Dolphins-highlights/e7928069-0784-4e74-9408-67459ca4becd

[better days]

Two reasons:

We've become experts at quickly identifying false messiahs at the QB position after having been fed a steady stream of them for a decade.

We have eyes, which we use to watch real deal NFL QBs, and it's night and day, regardless of "he's only on his 12th NFL start" nonsense.

EJ has been asked to do next to nothing and has barely accomplished that.

This team could go to the playoffs with a legit QB. EJ is not one, at this point. Some of us feel that we've seen this exact guy a few times before, but with a different name on his jersey.

EJ has started 12 games in the NFL.

That is FACT, not nonsense.

If EJ continues to play like he did against the Fins, the Bills will go to the playoffs.

[trapezeus]

ej has gone from 6 yards an attempt to almost 8. he also isn't being asked to throw30-40 times a game and carry us to the win

there are parts of his game that defintely have to improve and the coaches have to feel like they can trust him to do those things, but if you told me we would have a qb who wouldn't throw games away and could manage wins and make a few big plays when needed (i.e. a good drive in chicago after we gave up a quick TD) and a nice 3rd down TD after the opponent scored to make a game of it), i'd say good enough.

personally, i think ej will a pass and get credit for these type of games for another 3-5 weeks regardless of outcomes. but there will be a time when your qb will need to carry the day. i hope he'll be able to answer the bell. and frankly its more likely that he can when he's playing well than if he was crapping the bed.

[psubills62]

I think one of the best parts of these two wins is that the pessimists are forced to sound like what the optimists normally sound like.

"Well, if you take away these passes and these passes and concentrate on these 2-3 horrible passes then clearly you can see EJ sucks. Obviously, on the second Sunday of months that have a harvest moon, EJ's performance is going to lead to only a 19 point win rather than a 42 point win."

[Buffalogic]

I think one of the best parts of these two wins is that the pessimists are forced to sound like what the optimists normally sound like.

"Well, if you take away these passes and these passes and concentrate on these 2-3 horrible passes then clearly you can see EJ sucks. Obviously, on the second Sunday of months that have a harvest moon, EJ's performance is going to lead to only a 19 point win rather than a 42 point win."
There aren't 2-3 great passes to focus on.

[SquishDaFish]

WC you really dont know what the hell your talking about

[Dr. Lecter]

There aren't 2-3 great passes to focus on.

I can think of two off the top of my head - both to Watkins

One was in the 2nd quarter and was probably 15 yards down field. EJ threw it to him getting hammered

The second was the deep pass on the sidelines where he hit Watkins in stride and Grimes broke it up.

But let me guess - it is EJ's fault that the pass was broken up

[Dr. Lecter]

Of course there are timing routes in the NFL. Nobody is arguing that. Yes the ball is thrown before the receiver comes out of his break. But where the ball is being thrown to is in relation to the receivers route. It's the QB's job to make the ball intersect with the open receiver whether the pass is a timing route or not.

Even the apologetic argument that EJ was looking off the safety is flawed. The ball was missed because it was too close to the safety side. He didn't miss to the right, he missed to the left and that is where the safety was closer to. So EJ, looking off the safety, chose to throw the ball CLOSER to the safety than in the open spot where his receiver was all alone and would have caught the pass? Listen to how dumb that sounds. And why would the receiver try and run CLOSER to the player that is defending him in order to make the catch?? Any way you try to look at it to minimize the blame for EJ, HE MADE AND ERRANT THROW THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A TOUCHDOWN.

The posters who don't understand the game are obvious to see. They just dismiss things that their puny brains can't wrap their heads around Jimmifli, Night Train, Squish, etc. If you want to be a homer that's fine, just don't try to analyze the game because it's painful how obtuse some of you are.

Actually you were arguing that when you said a QB does not throw to a spot and were incredulous at those of us that said QBs do.

And your description is wrong regardless. It is thrown in relation to the WR's route. But if the WR runs the wrong route the ball will not be caught. He can't throw it to the WR if the cut is wrong.

The pass he threw was nowhere near the safety. If it had thrown it like you said it would have been intercepted in the end zone. It was not. It landed harmlessly. He threw the ball to were there was no defender, which is what he is supposed to do. It does not mean that it was the right pass, but certainly is not like you describe.

As for not understanding the game, I don't think any of those posters are showing a lack of understanding. After interacting with those posters you mention for a long time I can say they are not homers. Especially jimmi. I've seen him post for 15 years now and he is anything but a homer.

[Dr. Lecter]

Defenses will figure out a way to stop the short passing game. They always do. They did last year. It's not that difficult when you have no vertical threat.

Last year they were daring the Bills to throw downfield. And they didn't (unless Thad was playing). And we lost.

And it will happen again.

Serious question for you

When Fletch, Spiked, Coastal, etc all questioned Pegula and the sale process you questioned whether or not they wanted the Bills to move and said they were upset when the Bills sold and would stay local.

So I assume that you WANT Manuel to fail based on your logic and posting.

The question is why do you want him to fail? Wouldn't you want him to succeed? Do you hate him that much?

Or was your logic flawed and moronic previously?

[swiper]

There aren't 2-3 great passes to focus on.

The tip-toe pass to Chandler was well placed. There can be no argument there.

[Dr. Lecter]

There's 3!

[Historian]

I think one of the best parts of these two wins is that the pessimists are forced to sound like what the optimists normally sound like.

"Well, if you take away these passes and these passes and concentrate on these 2-3 horrible passes then clearly you can see EJ sucks. Obviously, on the second Sunday of months that have a harvest moon, EJ's performance is going to lead to only a 19 point win rather than a 42 point win."


WYSian logic.

[Fletch]

ej has gone from 6 yards an attempt to almost 8. he also isn't being asked to throw30-40 times a game and carry us to the win

there are parts of his game that defintely have to improve and the coaches have to feel like they can trust him to do those things, but if you told me we would have a qb who wouldn't throw games away and could manage wins and make a few big plays when needed (i.e. a good drive in chicago after we gave up a quick TD) and a nice 3rd down TD after the opponent scored to make a game of it), i'd say good enough.

personally, i think ej will a pass and get credit for these type of games for another 3-5 weeks regardless of outcomes. but there will be a time when your qb will need to carry the day. i hope he'll be able to answer the bell. and frankly its more likely that he can when he's playing well than if he was crapping the bed.

We'll see how this plays out. I'm still willing to stake my reputation on the notion that everyone's going to be coming down hard on Manuel soon.

He's not good in the red zone and leaves the field too often on 3rd downs.

We've managed to overcome that because we played a very weak Miami team in a sick home opening atmosphere and by capitalizing on the poor play of Cutler in week one. We cannot count on those things in a week to week situation.

He has also not been able to play more than one or one-and-a-half consistent quarters of football together at this point.

At some point the offense is going to be forced to move the ball and be effective in the red zone, something that still hasn't happened yet. If we think that we're going to keep winning games by allowing over 400 yards of net offense as in the Bears game, by allowing 4.8 ypc like we did in the Bears game, or by allowing over 200 yards of offense and 17 1st-donws in one half like we did vs. Miami, both signs of a D that isn't as good as some think it is, then we're fooling ourselves, and many here are fooling themselves.

[Topas]

Serious question for you

When Fletch, Spiked, Coastal, etc all questioned Pegula and the sale process you questioned whether or not they wanted the Bills to move and said they were upset when the Bills sold and would stay local.

So I assume that you WANT Manuel to fail based on your logic and posting.

The question is why do you want him to fail? Wouldn't you want him to succeed? Do you hate him that much?

Or was your logic flawed and moronic previously?

Touché. Excellent post, well said.

[better days]

We'll see how this plays out. I'm still willing to stake my reputation on the notion that everyone's going to be coming down hard on Manuel soon.

He's not good in the red zone and leaves the field too often on 3rd downs.

We've managed to overcome that because we played a very weak Miami team in a sick home opening atmosphere and by capitalizing on the poor play of Cutler in week one. We cannot count on those things in a week to week situation.

He has also not been able to play more than one or one-and-a-half consistent quarters of football together at this point.

At some point the offense is going to be forced to move the ball and be effective in the red zone, something that still hasn't happened yet. If we think that we're going to keep winning games by allowing over 400 yards of net offense as in the Bears game, by allowing 4.8 ypc like we did in the Bears game, or by allowing over 200 yards of offense and 17 1st-donws in one half like we did vs. Miami, both signs of a D that isn't as good as some think it is, then we're fooling ourselves, and many here are fooling themselves.

What reputation?

[pmoon6]

What reputation?Well, he is a top notch douchebag.

[Bill Cody]

The thing that's so ****ing annoying about threads like this is we've been winning like a third of our games for well over a decade and even when we do get a big W we have the usual suspects whipping their dicks out to piss on our Cheerios

[pmoon6]

The thing that's so ****ing annoying about threads like this is we've been winning like a third of our games for well over a decade and even when we do get a big W we have the usual suspects whipping their dicks out to piss on our CheeriosWell, I tried to give a psychological profile of the usual suspects, but I like your take much better.

Too funny.

[justasportsfan]

What reputation?

another legend in his own mind.

[Buffalogic]

The thing that's so ****ing annoying about threads like this is we've been winning like a third of our games for well over a decade and even when we do get a big W we have the usual suspects whipping their dicks out to piss on our Cheerios
Because we have seen this before and another crash and burn after a hot start is on the horizon because our offense can't put up the points it needs to even when everything is going completely in their favor.

[pmoon6]

Because we have seen this before and another crash and burn after a hot start is on the horizon because our offense can't put up the points it needs to even when everything is going completely in their favor.Defense mechanism to avoid pain.

Do you have an extra ten "Y" chromosomes? Little testicles?

They now make a self absorbing cream that may help or you can go to full pony and take the injections.

[Buffalogic]

Actually you were arguing that when you said a QB does not throw to a spot and were incredulous at those of us that said QBs do.

And your description is wrong regardless. It is thrown in relation to the WR's route. But if the WR runs the wrong route the ball will not be caught. He can't throw it to the WR if the cut is wrong.

The pass he threw was nowhere near the safety. If it had thrown it like you said it would have been intercepted in the end zone. It was not. It landed harmlessly. He threw the ball to were there was no defender, which is what he is supposed to do. It does not mean that it was the right pass, but certainly is not like you describe.

As for not understanding the game, I don't think any of those posters are showing a lack of understanding. After interacting with those posters you mention for a long time I can say they are not homers. Especially jimmi. I've seen him post for 15 years now and he is anything but a homer.Your argument is that this magical spot is fixed regardless of what happens post snap and that is just not how it works.

Rewatch the play. The ball lands between the safety and Watkins. He's leading Watkins INTO the safety when the guy is wide open where he is. Whether it is a timing pattern or not, he should be able to recognize the trajectory of the receiver and connect on that play. Watkins is open before the ball is thrown so the QB should be able to anticipate where he will end up.

Nobody hates EJ. If EJ plays well that means the bills win. Period. We want the bills to win, but if they don't score touchdowns when they are set up perfectly to do so, we probably are going to lose to strong teams.

[Buffalogic]

Defense mechanism to avoid pain.

Do you have an extra ten "Y" chromosomes? Little testicles?

They now make a self absorbing cream that may help or you can go to full pony and take the injections.Try hard. If you were as clever as you thought you were I could understand your antics. You should know how history repeats itself. Patton avatar.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Well, he is a top notch douchebag.Play nice... Name calling is a TOS violation... Consider this a warning to all.

[pmoon6]

Try hard. If you were as clever as you thought you were I could understand your antics. You should know how history repeats itself. Patton avatar.:rofl:

Well, we have just heard from Lloyd Christmas, can Harry Dunne be far behind?

[pmoon6]

Play nice... Name calling is a TOS violation... Consider this a warning to all.Well, it's not like I called him a Patriots' Fan.

That would be really a banable offense.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Well, it's not like I called him a Patriots' Fan.

That would be really a banable offense.LMAO... True dat.

[psubills62]

WC is a pretty clear troll. Not hard to simply go to nfl.com, see at least three passes where Manuel led Watkins perfectly on crossing routes including an intermediate one, plus the Chandler pass.

67% completions at 7.8 YPA, which is 11th in the NFL. It's pretty simple to see.

[Goobylal]

It's great to see another weekend where the EJ haters have to twist themselves into a pretzel to keep the hate going. Forget the missed redzone opps, look at his stats and the outcome of the game. And unless you know what routes the receivers were supposed to run on a given play, you can't pin every missed pass on EJ.

[DraftBoy]

The bottom line is should that have been a touchdown? Yes or no? And do you see pro bowl QB's miss that type of throw for a touchdown? Yes or No?

Could be either way on the first yes and no and yes on the second.

[Buffalogic]

Could be either way on the first yes and no and yes on the second.
Never. Neeeeverrr. I challenge you to duplicate that.

[Buffalogic]

WC is a pretty clear troll. Not hard to simply go to nfl.com, see at least three passes where Manuel led Watkins perfectly on crossing routes including an intermediate one, plus the Chandler pass.

67% completions at 7.8 YPA, which is 11th in the NFL. It's pretty simple to see.Yeah, clear troll whatever. Show me where he ranks in red zone stats. Probably dead last. Who cares what his overall completion percentage is. That is a useless stat. It is about situational football and he has been terrible when in the red zone.

But ya, hater, troll, pretzel. Whatever you guys want to say to be dismissive when deep down you really know these are problems for him and if they aren't fixed he will be Jason Campbell or Josh Freeman soon. Second or thrid string or a perpetual free agent. That's his future if he doesn't stop ****ting his pants in the opponants territory.

[Goobylal]

"Red zone stats"? LOL!

[Buffalogic]

"Red zone stats"? LOL!
Yea I know, those aren't as valueable as the check downs in our territory, right?

[Goobylal]

Yea I know, those aren't as valueable as the check downs in our territory, right?
The stat that is most valuable is wins.

[psubills62]

Yeah, clear troll whatever. Show me where he ranks in red zone stats. Probably dead last. Who cares what his overall completion percentage is. That is a useless stat. It is about situational football and he has been terrible when in the red zone.

But ya, hater, troll, pretzel. Whatever you guys want to say to be dismissive when deep down you really know these are problems for him and if they aren't fixed he will be Jason Campbell or Josh Freeman soon. Second or thrid string or a perpetual free agent. That's his future if he doesn't stop ****ting his pants in the opponants territory.Yeah, sure.

[Meathead]

Play nice... Name calling is a TOS violation... Consider this a warning to all.

i agree with the ignorant slut

[Buffalogic]

The stat that is most valuable is wins.
Not in QB evaluation. Try to separate the two because we are talking about the QB, so stop crawling back to the accomplishments of other players at different positions. I know you don't want to single EJ out because it's obvious he is the worst starter on the offense and the worst starter on the team and it crushes your heart to admit that.

Be objective, not overly loyal and these things are easy to see if you aren't a bleeding crybaby homer apologist.

[Goobylal]

Not in QB evaluation. Try to separate the two because we are talking about the QB, so stop crawling back to the accomplishments of other players at different positions. I know you don't want to single EJ out because it's obvious he is the worst starter on the offense and the worst starter on the team and it crushes your heart to admit that.

Be objective, not overly loyal and these things are easy to see if you aren't a bleeding crybaby homer apologist.
Wait, W-L isn't important in QB evaluation? LOL! You're losing it even more than before.

Look, we all realize you've entrenched yourself in the "EJ sucks" camp. But judging by the performances of Brady and Kaep against the same opponents, EJ is doing very well. True he hasn't needed to put the team on his shoulders, but neither has Kaep, and look how that Bears game turned out.

And another thing. If you don't know what the routes the WR's were supposed to run, and you don't, then you can't say he was "horribly inaccurate" when the ball doesn't get to the receiver.

[Buffalogic]

Wait, W-L isn't important in QB evaluation? LOL! You're losing it even more than before.

Look, we all realize you've entrenched yourself in the "EJ sucks" camp. But judging by the performances of Brady and Kaep against the same opponents, EJ is doing very well. True he hasn't needed to put the team on his shoulders, but neither has Kaep, and look how that Bears game turned out.I've always said Kaepernick is a joke and is a wide receiver playing quarterback. Do a forum search on Kaepernick if you want, I crush him in every thread. I'm an equal opportunity crusher and my opinions usually get a lot of heat in the moment, but as time goes on I'm right more often than not.

W-L is a team stat, or do you want to give loads of credit to Dilfer? Depending on the structure of the team, W-L is no more important to a quarterback than it is to an MLB pitcher.

[Yasgur's Farm]

For Christ sake, let it die... Why are you so compelled to pummel this subject?

[Buffalogic]

For Christ sake, let it die... Why are you so compelled to pummel this subject?
If I keep getting addressed I will keep answering. Pretty Simple.

[Goobylal]

I've always said Kaepernick is a joke and is a wide receiver playing quarterback. Do a forum search on Kaepernick if you want, I crush him in every thread. I'm an equal opportunity crusher and my opinions usually get a lot of heat in the moment, but as time goes on I'm right more often than not.

W-L is a team stat, or do you want to give loads of credit to Dilfer? Depending on the structure of the team, W-L is no more important to a quarterback than it is to an MLB pitcher.
I see. So EJ going 32 for 48 (66.7%) for 375 yards (7.8 YPA), 2 TD and 1 INT, plus another TD rushing, and going 2-0 aren't good enough for you. Now the only stats that matter are "redzone" stats. Yeah, okay.

How about if you take out the 2 longest runs against the Bears (47 and 38 yards) and the longest run against the Dols (47) and the rushing offense averaging 3.5 YPC and 2.1 YPC? Is that helping EJ out? What about the play of the interior OL? Do you view Chris Williams and Erik Pears as upper, middle, or lower tier OG's? Are they helping him out? And again, do you know whether the routes Sammy and Robert ran in the redzone were the proper ones, in terms of depth?

[Buffalogic]

I see. So EJ going 32 for 48 (66.7%) for 375 yards (7.8 YPA), 2 TD and 1 INT, plus another TD rushing, and going 2-0 aren't good enough for you. Now the only stats that matter are "redzone" stats. Yeah, okay.

How about if you take out the 2 longest runs against the Bears (47 and 38 yards) and the longest run against the Dols (47) and the rushing offense averaging 3.5 YPC and 2.1 YPC? Is that helping EJ out? What about the play of the interior OL? Do you view Chris Williams and Erik Pears as upper, middle, or lower tier OG's? Are they helping him out? And again, do you know whether the routes Sammy and Robert ran in the redzone were the proper ones, in terms of depth?Hi. EJ is doing better than last year. However, his situational football is still very poor. That is the point of the thread. I really don't care if he goes 8/8 on a drive that ends in a punt, but you seem to want to celebrate that more than scoring 6 points.

You can't take away runs, they happened. With that said, he is benefitting the mostly from field position. I mean our defense and special teams are setting up the offense in the best way possible and we aren't converting touchdowns.

Our receivers are great. The play can break down in seconds and then it comes down to skill and improvisation. Both of which EJ appears to be lacking in crucial moments. If our receiver is open for a touchdown, we should be scoring on passing plays.

Our O-line has played great and has only given up one sack. Chris Williams, despite the common negativity, opened the huge gaping hole Freddy ran through to seal the bears victory.

It's hard for us to ask our running game, o-line, defense, or special teams to play better. It is not hard to ask that from our QB. He needs to improve and produce at a winning level like the other units on the field, because those units will have off games from time to time and we will lose those games if we can't ask the QB to do anything but settle for field goals.

[swiper]

"Hi"?

[Goobylal]

Hi. EJ is doing better than last year. However, his situational football is still very poor. That is the point of the thread. I really don't care if he goes 8/8 on a drive that ends in a punt, but you seem to want to celebrate that more than scoring 6 points.

You can't take away runs, they happened. With that said, he is benefitting the mostly from field position. I mean our defense and special teams are setting up the offense in the best way possible and we aren't converting touchdowns.

Our receivers are great. The play can break down in seconds and then it comes down to skill and improvisation. Both of which EJ appears to be lacking in crucial moments. If our receiver is open for a touchdown, we should be scoring on passing plays.

Our O-line has played great and has only given up one sack. Chris Williams, despite the common negativity, opened the huge gaping hole Freddy ran through to seal the bears victory.

It's hard for us to ask our running game, o-line, defense, or special teams to play better. It is not hard to ask that from our QB. He needs to improve and produce at a winning level like the other units on the field, because those units will have off games from time to time and we will lose those games if we can't ask the QB to do anything but settle for field goals.
"His situational awareness is poor"? From what orifice are you pulling that one? Even with the missed hookups, EJ has almost always made the correct read. But again, whether it's because he misfired or the receiver ran the wrong route, we don't know. Ascribing it all to EJ is disingenuous at best.

As for taking away the runs, yes, I can take them away. Three long runs out of 25 drives tells me the running game isn't helping the offense out as much as it should/was supposed to be.

Yes the receivers are great. And EJ has been getting them the ball at a 66.7% rate and at 7.8 YPA. But all off-season all people were talking about was how EJ had to "throw the WR's open" or "throw to them and trust them to make a play," and now that he's doing it, it's "well, the receivers are great and are making circus catches."

Sorry, that EJ has only been sacked once does not mean the OL has been playing great. That alone should disqualify you from any future discussions. Williams and Pears have been mostly horrible. I have no idea why Whaley signed Williams and gave him the money he did. But he's made many good personnel moves, so I'll cut him some slack and hope Richardson can take over for him sooner rather than later. I also wonder why Urbik isn't back starting over Pears, whose 6'8" frame and lack of experience at OG is hurting the team. Oh and as for that run by Freddie, he faked like he was going up the middle, which drew the DT to the inside and Williams was able to hold him off long enough for Fred to get through, with help from Wood (who also obliterated Briggs on that play), and then Freddie made a great move to bounce it outside between the massive hole that Cordy also contributed to.

It's hard to ask for the OL to play better because guys like Williams and Pears are at their ceiling and not going to get any better. The best we can hope for is personnel change there. And their play affects the running game and passing game as well. Defense and ST's, I agree, they're doing great.

[Buffalogic]

We disagree. Go Bills!

[stuckincincy]

"His situational awareness is poor"? From what orifice are you pulling that one? Even with the missed hookups, EJ has almost always made the correct read. But again, whether it's because he misfired or the receiver ran the wrong route, we don't know. Ascribing it all to EJ is disingenuous at best.

As for taking away the runs, yes, I can take them away. Three long runs out of 25 drives tells me the running game isn't helping the offense out as much as it should/was supposed to be.

Yes the receivers are great. And EJ has been getting them the ball at a 66.7% rate and at 7.8 YPA. But all off-season all people were talking about was how EJ had to "throw the WR's open" or "throw to them and trust them to make a play," and now that he's doing it, it's "well, the receivers are great and are making circus catches."

Sorry, that EJ has only been sacked once does not mean the OL has been playing great. That alone should disqualify you from any future discussions. Williams and Pears have been mostly horrible. I have no idea why Whaley signed Williams and gave him the money he did. But he's made many good personnel moves, so I'll cut him some slack and hope Richardson can take over for him sooner rather than later. I also wonder why Urbik isn't back starting over Pears, whose 6'8" frame and lack of experience at OG is hurting the team. Oh and as for that run by Freddie, he faked like he was going up the middle, which drew the DT to the inside and Williams was able to hold him off long enough for Fred to get through, with help from Wood (who also obliterated Briggs on that play), and then Freddie made a great move to bounce it outside between the massive hole that Cordy also contributed to.

It's hard to ask for the OL to play better because guys like Williams and Pears are at their ceiling and not going to get any better. The best we can hope for is personnel change there. And their play affects the running game and passing game as well. Defense and ST's, I agree, they're doing great.

The thing is, Manuel and his OL has faced a CHI defense where the consensus here was a poor one, and in the next game, MIA, we were informed, was lacking their starting lb corps. SD seems to be pretty intact regarding their defensive starters, but missing their best rb and probably their best wr. Which, if that causes them to falter offensively, aids the BUF offense. I can't really change my opinion about Manual's poor pre season...he did get more than normal starting time. Of course, the 2 victories are welcome, and his performance was good.

SD TE Gates had a fine game last week...targeted 7 times and snagged all of them, and wr Royal grabbed 7 of 10. Rb Woodhead caught 4 of 5, replacing injured starter Matthews.

Should be an interesting contest, perhaps one where Manual shows something more to my liking.

[pmoon6]

"His situational awareness is poor"? From what orifice are you pulling that one? Even with the missed hookups, EJ has almost always made the correct read. But again, whether it's because he misfired or the receiver ran the wrong route, we don't know. Ascribing it all to EJ is disingenuous at best.

As for taking away the runs, yes, I can take them away. Three long runs out of 25 drives tells me the running game isn't helping the offense out as much as it should/was supposed to be.

Yes the receivers are great. And EJ has been getting them the ball at a 66.7% rate and at 7.8 YPA. But all off-season all people were talking about was how EJ had to "throw the WR's open" or "throw to them and trust them to make a play," and now that he's doing it, it's "well, the receivers are great and are making circus catches."

Sorry, that EJ has only been sacked once does not mean the OL has been playing great. That alone should disqualify you from any future discussions. Williams and Pears have been mostly horrible. I have no idea why Whaley signed Williams and gave him the money he did. But he's made many good personnel moves, so I'll cut him some slack and hope Richardson can take over for him sooner rather than later. I also wonder why Urbik isn't back starting over Pears, whose 6'8" frame and lack of experience at OG is hurting the team. Oh and as for that run by Freddie, he faked like he was going up the middle, which drew the DT to the inside and Williams was able to hold him off long enough for Fred to get through, with help from Wood (who also obliterated Briggs on that play), and then Freddie made a great move to bounce it outside between the massive hole that Cordy also contributed to.

It's hard to ask for the OL to play better because guys like Williams and Pears are at their ceiling and not going to get any better. The best we can hope for is personnel change there. And their play affects the running game and passing game as well. Defense and ST's, I agree, they're doing great.My fervent wish is that when he is circling the wagons in Arizona he gets three or four arrows though his heart.

Lots of Injuns down there.

[Buffalogic]

My fervent wish is that when he is circling the wagons in Arizona he gets three or four arrows though his heart.

Lots of Injuns down there.
Rofl that is a bit extreme.

[pmoon6]

Rofl that is a bit extreme.Ha!!! I made you laugh.

Progress.

[Buffalogic]

Ha!!! I made you laugh.

Progress.
You had a couple good one's in the stadium thread but I wasn't ready to give you credit for them yet.

[BertSquirtgum]

This website needs to buy a few cans of Troll-B-Gone.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww216/mudbug73/Troll_B_Gone.jpg http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s379/bhurtgam/140hxqc_zps97099eea.jpg

[Buffalogic]

^ you really felt this was necessary?

[BertSquirtgum]

^ you really felt this was necessary?

Was it posted? Somebody needed to post something to get you to shut the **** up about it.

[Typ0]

You said it yourself...he's doing better than last year. That's all we need from him. Improvement. There is one thing about Manual we have clearly seen...he knows how to dog it off. He's our QB and if he can continue to improve we are in business with him.

The comment about Dilfer is way off by the way. Dilfer was a guy with a limited tool set who played lights out with what he had consistently. That does not describe anything about our situation here. Manual has the tools and is/will be coached up to use them as he grows.


Hi. EJ is doing better than last year. However, his situational football is still very poor. That is the point of the thread. I really don't care if he goes 8/8 on a drive that ends in a punt, but you seem to want to celebrate that more than scoring 6 points.

You can't take away runs, they happened. With that said, he is benefitting the mostly from field position. I mean our defense and special teams are setting up the offense in the best way possible and we aren't converting touchdowns.

Our receivers are great. The play can break down in seconds and then it comes down to skill and improvisation. Both of which EJ appears to be lacking in crucial moments. If our receiver is open for a touchdown, we should be scoring on passing plays.

Our O-line has played great and has only given up one sack. Chris Williams, despite the common negativity, opened the huge gaping hole Freddy ran through to seal the bears victory.

It's hard for us to ask our running game, o-line, defense, or special teams to play better. It is not hard to ask that from our QB. He needs to improve and produce at a winning level like the other units on the field, because those units will have off games from time to time and we will lose those games if we can't ask the QB to do anything but settle for field goals.

[swiper]

Was it posted? Somebody needed to post something to get you to shut the **** up about it.

I love it. Trolls chasing trolls in cyberspace.

[Buffalogic]

Was it posted? Somebody needed to post something to get you to shut the **** up about it.Needed?

[BertSquirtgum]

I love it. Trolls chasing trolls in cyberspace.

Pot, meet kettle.

[BertSquirtgum]

Needed?

Really?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/needed

[JoeMama]

Bottom line, EJ looks better than he did last season. Including his accuracy.

Save the criticism for when he has a dud.

[WagonCircler]

Bottom line, EJ looks better than he did last season. Including his accuracy.

Save the criticism for when he has a dud.

In my opinion, 99.99% of the credit for that goes to Hackett and the OL.

EJ has been operating under almost no pressure and has been asked to do very little.

[JoeMama]

In my opinion, 99.99% of the credit for that goes to Hackett and the OL.

EJ has been operating under almost no pressure [B]and has been asked to do very little.

I don't know how much credit I'd give Hackett. He still doesn't know how to get much out of our RBs, especially when you consider how well Gailey used Spiller.

The line is playing well, true.

But it's like I said before the Bears game. What we need is for EJ to minimize mistakes, take what's given to him, and let an turnover hungry D create opportunities.

EJ hasn't been great but he's been playing within his limits and doing an effective job.

Is it a recipe for a Super Bowl? No. But it's definitely a step in the right direction for a QB who looked utterly lost in preseason and the TB/PIT games last year.

I'll take it.

[Buffalogic]

Bottom line, EJ looks better than he did last season. Including his accuracy.

Save the criticism for when he has a dud.Dude he did have a dud. Scoring one touchdown in 7 tries is a dud. DUD!

[pmoon6]

Dude he did have a dud. Scoring one touchdown in 7 tries is a dud. DUD!What I think alot of the negative posters fail to consider alot of the time is that there are 11 professional guys on the other team trying to stop us from scoring a TD. Brent grimes made a great play to prevent a Manuel to Watkins TD pass and the Fins were pretty stout against the run all day.

However, the Nancy boys see it as our offense and our QB failed, not that defenders made some very good plays. There were a couple swing passes and one screen that I recall that should have went for good yardage, but were limited to only a few yards due to great plays by Miami's DBs.

E.J. hasn't sucked nor is he the second coming of Jim Kelly. BTW, if this board was around in the late '80's and even during our SB runs, you would have been screaming that Jimbo should be benched because he threw too many picks...or that he was making the wrong calls at the LOS.

That's the trouble with some spectators. They are critical because they can't do, they expect perfection when it's impossible. They live in a fantasyland that has become more real than their boring existence.

[JoeMama]

Dude he did have a dud. Scoring one touchdown in 7 tries is a dud. DUD!

You just keep beating that horse. We've been conservative in the redzone.

EJ botched a throw to Robert Woods, he was off on a few others, but I can't remember too many plays where was solely responsible for our inability to score touchdowns in the redzone.

We're running a ball a lot in the redzone too. Does that means F-Jax and Spiller are duds?

Lots of season left to play. Lots of room to improve on redzone efficiency.

[pmoon6]

You just keep beating that horse. We've been conservative in the redzone.

EJ botched a throw to Robert Woods, he was off on a few others, but I can't remember too many plays where was solely responsible for our inability to score touchdowns in the redzone.

We're running a ball a lot in the redzone too. Does that means F-Jax and Spiller are duds?

Lots of season left to play. Lots of room to improve on redzone efficiency.Preach on, brother.

[notacon]

Is this stupid thread still going on???

[Yasgur's Farm]

Mr "last word" says he won't quit as long as he's being addressed... Ignore him and it will go away.
If I keep getting addressed I will keep answering. Pretty Simple.

[YardRat]

Good test for both QB's today, if the wind acts like some of the forecasters are saying (10-15mph w/30mph gusts). EJ has a decent arm, but the edge would have to go to Rivers IMO. Hopefully it only blows when the Chargers have the ball :D

[ICRockets]

What I think alot of the negative posters fail to consider alot of the time is that there are 11 professional guys on the other team trying to stop us from scoring a TD.

This exact point has been something I've tossed around in my head for years, but never wanted to make because I wasn't sure how it would sound. I'm glad someone else has said it, and I'm glad it's someone whose take I respect.

[WagonCircler]

What I think alot of the negative posters fail to consider alot of the time is that there are 11 professional guys on the other team trying to stop us from scoring a TD..

Brother Moon! Real Wagon here. The only thing about that is that there are 11 pro guys trying to stop every QB.

And that's where my radar really goes up when it comes to EJ. I watch the other teams' QBs--and I don't just mean Peyton and Aaron Rodgers--but guys like Luck and Matt Ryan and about 10 others, and there's just a world of difference, mechanically and otherwise. The throws EJ is praised here for are run of the mill throws that and 3rd string or practice squad QB can make, especially with the kind of protection EJ has had this year.

I've seen this guy (EJ) before. Over and over again. It doesn't matter if he's had 12 starts or 300, he is who he is, and he just doesn't have the consistency to be a top tier QB in this league.

The tools EJ has are those of a guy who will struggle to be an adequate starter in the NFL. He will never be a star.