What's the Difference?

[The King]

We're 2-0 with wins against solid opponents, but much like most Bills fans I have a hard time enjoying it because I just feel like the wheels are going to come off. They always seem to.

So whats the difference this time? Why does this feel better than 2011 or 2008? How do we know this is real?

Has Whaley constructed a team that's simply better than most?
Is Marrone coaching these players up?
Has the mentality of this team finally changed? If so as a fan how long before the doom and gloom is lifted?

And if we are finally moving in the right direction how many wins does it take to keep these pieces in place?

Making the playoffs would be exciting but I want to win the division, I want to dethrone the Patriots, I want to be able to bask in the sunlight of a football team people are afraid of.

[OpIv37]

I think a big reason why the 2008 and 2011 teams failed was that they were one dimensional on O. Once other teams figured out what they were doing, they were unable to adjust.

Is this team different? I really don't know. They have more talent than those earlier teams at the skill positions, but it depends on EJ and the OL continuing to play well and the coaches being creative enough to keep the offense evolving once other teams figure out what they are doing.

The D will be fine as long as the O can stay on the field.

[trapezeus]

differences:

1. more balance like op said, lack of reliance of having fitz have to be the man, or trent playing well. it comes from a number of people
2. not beating bad teams. our opponents beat SF in SF and NE.
3. the team isn't crumbling when adversity strikes. bad ref calls or having an opponent take control for a portion of the game doesn't have the wheels come off.
4. the OL is not a penalty machine.

i am with you and waiting for this to fall apart, but i have to say, bills seasons are more fun when it hurts a little. when they just suck out the gate, it just becomes boring. when there is a reason to billieve, even if it doesn't work out the way you want, it's much more fun. i'd take another meltdown over a slow bleed boring season any day of the week.

[djjimkelly]

there are major differences

for 1 NO DICK to run the ball 3 times then punt.

2 our roster is littered with high draft pick talent this time around

3 our qb can actually make all the throws

[Topas]

Well, actually I am not sure if it feels that much different. IIRC I was pumped also back then.

But probably you are right, it feels slightly different because:
- Marrone is our best coach since Marv or at least since Wade. The jury is still out but I am confident that this is true. I actually think Whaley gets too much credit for his drafting because Marrone coaches the player up
- the team is the bully instead of being bullied

The again, there is still a strong possibility that future teams will be better in exposing EJ. Hopefully not.

[Skooby]

We have depth now unlike previous years. When one of our players takes a rest, the drop off in talent isn't noticeable & there's a chance the replacement is better (See Graham).

[Fletch]

We'll see if there's more balance in the coming weeks. I don't think that there is. I think that Manuel's still the same Manuel and the newness of Watkins hasn't worn off yet and seen the reality that he's not going to be superman hit here yet. Equally concerning to Watkins' first 100-yard game should be Woods and Williams combining for 2 catches for 8 yards.

The defense had trouble stopping the run in the only game in which we faced a decent RB, so that's TBD too, but since it was supposed to be the strength of our D it should be cause for concern. The fact that we shut down Lamar Miller and an undrafted rookie free agent doesn't say much.

Neither does allowing over 400 yards offense to Chicago and a grand second half to Miami with 228 net yards and 17 1st downs. So really we've played 2 or 3 quarters of good defense.

This is the post you've been waiting for, isn't it.

:cool:

Have at it.

A. I can't wait for the team to lose. Check
B. I care more about being right than about my own team winning. Check
C. The Bills really aren't my team. Check
D. I said something in there that makes it impossible for some posters to not see that it wasn't a personal insult. Check

[GreedoII]

Depth and better D. The D in 2011 was bad. in 2008 Dickless Jauron was the problem as well as injuries and zero depth

[elltrain22]

Some differences I see (so far):

(in no particular order)

1. Way more talent. We have a very good O & D-line. Good WR's that will only improve, good tandem of RB's, better defense (esp the front 7), and so far, a QB who can move the chains and not turn the ball over

2. With Sammy, CJ, Fred, Robert Woods, and EJ Manuel that is an array of offensive talent that is legit.

3. Our defensive front 4 might be the best in the league

4. We have a stable of good young players.

5. Better coaching in a long time

6. Our competition in the AFC east is leveling out, it seems.

[The King]

I just dug into this a little bit too. We've "homegrown" 13 starters since the 2011 draft.

2011
1- Dareus
2- Aaron Williams
4- Searcy

2012
1- Gilmore
2- Glenn
3- Bradham

2013
1- Manuel
2- Woods
2- Kiko
UD- Robey

2014
1- Watkins
3- Brown
7-Henderson

[ServoBillieves]

1) Depth, as stated numerous times above. There is little to no drop off in talent when starters are resting and so forth.
2) Playing 60 minutes of football. IIRC the teams from before would do the "Hey we're winning, let's play extremely conservative!". (But Servo, they ran the ball late in the 4th in the red zone!) Yes, they did, while they were up 2 scores and a FG would net them a 3 score lead. That may be conservative but that's also clock management and smart.
3) Opponent statistics are inflated by catch-up and prevent yards. There was a point in the game last weekend that the Bills had 190+ yards compared to the Dolphins 33. The defense is no joke. Also, when Dareus went out, did anyone notice until it was mentioned? I'm astonished the All-Pro announcing team didn't comment that Marcus Stroud had cramps.

Three things that doomed those good starts before: Injuries, QB play, and coaching. These are all things that where the Bills stand preparing for week 3 we have no clue how that will develop. But, let me say that EJ has surprised and not had a bad game yet. The coach hasn't made any crazy stupid calls yet. We still have an uphill battle against refs, injuries... Who knows. The fear, doom and gloom was losing Kiko for the year, and Week 1 we were down Bradham, and are now without Rivers, with to a lesser extent losing Sylvester for the year. That's the beginning of our yearly injury curse right there...

But unlike in the past, we have players who can make the leap and fill in. Hell, Spikes barely played last week and we were still dominant on D.

The 8 ball says good things are coming, but I'm waiting for the wheels to come off.

[justasportsfan]

It's early but IMO so far it's coaching.

Marrone always stated that as a HC you have to be like a CEO of the entire program. Under Dick Jauron and Gailey, they were at the mercy of their assistant coaches to know what they are doing.

Dick Jauron didn't know the offensive side of things and had several unproven OC's that he even had to fire Turk right before the season started. You can't do that and expect to succeed. He also forced his OC's to run his philosophy of playing not to lose. Be conservative and take what the D gives you rather than force you will against the D force them make the adjustments.

Gailey knew Wanny from his time in Miami and didn't know that the game had evolved passed Wanny's head.


A few successful coaches that come to mind who were true CEO's of their program were Marv, Cowher and Bellicheat. They all had a handle on everything that goes on in every unit. Dick, Mularkey, Greg Williams, Gailey were nothing but coordinators who were in over their head.

Marrone as a CEO did his homework when looking up his assistant coaches. He did that with Pettine and now Schwartz. Hackett is still a question mark and so far, he gave Crossman weapons on ST and seems to be working up to this point.

[Bill Cody]

So far the O line has looked pretty good. You have a young QB that is still green. If he gets good OL play that's going to be huge for his development. It still all comes down to that.

[sukie]

Until we beat NE it feels no different aside from the delight in watching Sammy Watkins with sore ribs and dreaming of the day we see him healthy.

[ublinkwescore]

does any one ever read fletch's comments? I don't...

[ublinkwescore]

Until we beat NE it feels no different aside from the delight in watching Sammy Watkins with sore ribs and dreaming of the day we see him healthy.

this. and we should be undefeated going in to our game against New England. and if we are undefeated after New England pays us a visit, I would be all in on the band wagon - and with a big "Thanks Cleveland, your first from us will be in the 20s.

[JohnnyGold]

does any one ever read fletch's comments? I don't...

I do. You would be wise to.

The Bills are a historically inept franchise, save for what amounts to 6 years of success. For a franchise that has been around for close to 60 years, that amounts to them being downright bad 90% of the time. Just because someone is "realistic" about that scenario does not mean that they are not a fan. How could anyone be accused of not being a fan: I can't imagine why anyone would voluntarily follow this club only for the sake of being negative. No, Fletch brings up good, relevant points very often.

If, heaven forbid, a close family member (or yourself) ever receives a "terminal" diagnosis, I assure you, the doctors are not being "mean", and you can not "not read/believe" their diagnosis just because it is uncomfortable for you.

With that being said, the team has not received a terminal diagnosis, so I would enjoy if Fletch could be more forthcoming with his loyalty/optimism for the team. Surely it must exist at some level--I find it hard to believe anyone isn't excited and hoping for a win every Sunday at 12:59 pm. It's everything that happens after kickoff (and for the rest of the week), where things have historically fallen apart for the Bills.

On to the question at hand: truthfully, I'm more worried this season than either of those 2 seasons that have been mentioned. In 2008, I had a tremendous amount of confidence in Edwards going into the season: he showed quite a bit in the previous season after taking over for Losman. Going into Cleveland (snow globe game) in 2007, the Bills were very much alive for a wildcard, with Edwards at the helm. Obviously we lost that game in boring fashion, but going into the next year, I expected them to contend for a wildcard. Seeing them start 5-1 did nothing to dissuade that, and it was quite shocking the extent to which they fell apart. That Monday nighter against Cleveland where we lost by a last second missed field goal was/is one of the most underrated Bills heartbreakers of all time.

With Fitz in 2011, again, I had a ton of confidence in that team. If you recall the season before, we started 0-8 and finished 4-4. And in those first 8 games, there were a few times (Ravens, Chiefs) where there was ample opportunities to win, and in the second half, there were games against Pittsburgh where it really seemed like we had arrived. Starting 3-0, in hindsight, might have been a fluke, but to me, that's revisionist history. I thought that team had a good offense, and could score at will--Fredex in his prime, a young Spiller, and Stevie catching everything.

That brings us to now. Nothing they showed me/us last year made me think this team was for real, aside from the defense. They have played well in the first 2 games, HOWEVER, they can't finish in the redzone, and this is being completely glossed over/marginalized. It's 2014 in the NFL--you need to be able to score points. I think this game against San Diego will be very telling. 100% of my being hopes we come out, light it up, and dominate--but I just don't see it happening.

I would love to be wrong. More than anything I've ever said about the Bills, I'd love to be wrong about this. I'd love to be quoted into Bolivia about being pessimistic and wrong as the Bills go 11-5, host a wildcard game, and are a "sexy super bowl" pick next year. But I'm going to need to see EJ finish some drives with 6 points this weekend/going forward. The great thing about a team with a young qb is, that could happen at any time. He already looks better than last year, but just not good enough.

And how anyone could say that this team gives you more confidence than those other teams? It's wild: those other teams had QBs who were in the zone, were throwing it all over the yard, were making highlight reel plays, were getting lucky, and were winning. EJ is managing the game. No mistakes, to be sure, but that game against Miami could have been over after 1 last week. Instead, it was very much in doubt until the end of the third. That won't fly against New England, Denver, Cincy, Indy, or SD: ie, the teams we'll play in the playoffs.

[justasportsfan]

I do. You would be wise to.

The Bills are a historically inept franchise, save for what amounts to 6 years of success. For a franchise that has been around for close to 60 years, that amounts to them being downright bad 90% of the time. Just because someone is "realistic" about that scenario does not mean that they are not a fan. How could anyone be accused of not being a fan: I can't imagine why anyone would voluntarily follow this club only for the sake of being negative. No, Fletch brings up good, relevant points very often.

If, heaven forbid, a close family member (or yourself) ever receives a "terminal" diagnosis, I assure you, the doctors are not being "mean", and you can not "not read/believe" their diagnosis just because it is uncomfortable for you.

With that being said, the team has not received a terminal diagnosis, so I would enjoy if Fletch could be more forthcoming with his loyalty/optimism for the team. Surely it must exist at some level--I find it hard to believe anyone isn't excited and hoping for a win every Sunday at 12:59 pm. It's everything that happens after kickoff (and for the rest of the week), where things have historically fallen apart for the Bills.

On to the question at hand: truthfully, I'm more worried this season than either of those 2 seasons that have been mentioned. In 2008, I had a tremendous amount of confidence in Edwards going into the season: he showed quite a bit in the previous season after taking over for Losman. Going into Cleveland (snow globe game) in 2007, the Bills were very much alive for a wildcard, with Edwards at the helm. Obviously we lost that game in boring fashion, but going into the next year, I expected them to contend for a wildcard. Seeing them start 5-1 did nothing to dissuade that, and it was quite shocking the extent to which they fell apart. That Monday nighter against Cleveland where we lost by a last second missed field goal was/is one of the most underrated Bills heartbreakers of all time.

With Fitz in 2011, again, I had a ton of confidence in that team. If you recall the season before, we started 0-8 and finished 4-4. And in those first 8 games, there were a few times (Ravens, Chiefs) where there was ample opportunities to win, and in the second half, there were games against Pittsburgh where it really seemed like we had arrived. Starting 3-0, in hindsight, might have been a fluke, but to me, that's revisionist history. I thought that team had a good offense, and could score at will--Fredex in his prime, a young Spiller, and Stevie catching everything.

That brings us to now. Nothing they showed me/us last year made me think this team was for real, aside from the defense. They have played well in the first 2 games, HOWEVER, they can't finish in the redzone, and this is being completely glossed over/marginalized. It's 2014 in the NFL--you need to be able to score points. I think this game against San Diego will be very telling. 100% of my being hopes we come out, light it up, and dominate--but I just don't see it happening.

I would love to be wrong. More than anything I've ever said about the Bills, I'd love to be wrong about this. I'd love to be quoted into Bolivia about being pessimistic and wrong as the Bills go 11-5, host a wildcard game, and are a "sexy super bowl" pick next year. But I'm going to need to see EJ finish some drives with 6 points this weekend/going forward. The great thing about a team with a young qb is, that could happen at any time. He already looks better than last year, but just not good enough.

And how anyone could say that this team gives you more confidence than those other teams? It's wild: those other teams had QBs who were in the zone, were throwing it all over the yard, were making highlight reel plays, were getting lucky, and were winning. EJ is managing the game. No mistakes, to be sure, but that game against Miami could have been over after 1 last week. Instead, it was very much in doubt until the end of the third. That won't fly against New England, Denver, Cincy, Indy, or SD: ie, the teams we'll play in the playoffs.


Na, I'd rather read OP's pessimistic posts. While OP like Fletch would rather harp on the negatives, OP doesn't seem to wish the bills would lose just so that he can say he was right.

[Meathead]

doesnt feel different at all

fact is, every season you have two-ish teams that are really good and two-ish that are really bad. for the other twenty-eight teams its really all about good old fashioned luck. how many injuries do you have compared to your opponents and at what positions? did you win a couple of key replay reviews in a row or lose them? did that ball go two inches to the left or two inches to the right?

we pretend like our team either willed themselves to victory or stood around watching the other team do it. but really, for those middle pack teams its just a big huge dice roll. and just like dice you can roll a bunch of sevens in a row or a whole boatload of craps

just gotta wait and see which one it is

[jimmifli]

Both lines have dominated their opponents. When that happens you win a lot of football games.

The Dline is for real, the depth is great and they were even beating Miami's line. The OL is still a huge question mark. Chicago's Dline sucked, Miami's was supposed to be good.

If they can keep making pockets and opening holes I'll give them a pass on not being able to pull or screen.

[jimmifli]

doesnt feel different at all

fact is, every season you have two-ish teams that are really good and two-ish that are really bad. for the other twenty-eight teams its really all about good old fashioned luck. how many injuries do you have compared to your opponents and at what positions? did you win a couple of key replay reviews in a row or lose them? did that ball go two inches to the left or two inches to the right?

we pretend like our team either willed themselves to victory or stood around watching the other team do it. but really, for those middle pack teams its just a big huge dice roll. and just like dice you can roll a bunch of sevens in a row or a whole boatload of craps

just gotta wait and see which one it is
I'd change the numbers a bit, but otherwise I agree. Really there isn't much difference between the teams that go 10-6 and the teams that go 6-10. Some luck, injuries, coaching decisions and mental toughness is about the only difference.

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't know if there is a differene yet. I like to think there is, but I have thought that before too. Certainly there are positive signs - the defense is doing its job. They played a good team on the road in week 1 and won the game, even after losing a lead. They played an emotionally charged game in week 2 and did not wilt.

They certainly seem to have more actual talent. They are not starting guys that were picked up as street free agents all over the place. There is a mix of youth and experience. They can produce in some key areas like the pass rush. The offense is not making dumb mistakes.

that being said a collapse is still very possible. What if the offense starts to turn the ball over? What if the defense stops making sacks and ints?

The next few weeks are huge. Can they come off this week's win and beat a good San Diego team? Can they go to Houston and beat a team that they "should" beat? Then New England comes here. Imagine the atmosphere if the Pats come here to play a 4-0 Bills team?

We all know it could be a 2-2 team too.

Right now they are doing the small things the good teams do. If they keep it up they can win 8-10 games.

Meaningful football in December would be awesome

[Mahdi]

We'll see if there's more balance in the coming weeks. I don't think that there is. I think that Manuel's still the same Manuel and the newness of Watkins hasn't worn off yet and seen the reality that he's not going to be superman hit here yet. Equally concerning to Watkins' first 100-yard game should be Woods and Williams combining for 2 catches for 8 yards.

The defense had trouble stopping the run in the only game in which we faced a decent RB, so that's TBD too, but since it was supposed to be the strength of our D it should be cause for concern. The fact that we shut down Lamar Miller and an undrafted rookie free agent doesn't say much.

Neither does allowing over 400 yards offense to Chicago and a grand second half to Miami with 228 net yards and 17 1st downs. So really we've played 2 or 3 quarters of good defense.

This is the post you've been waiting for, isn't it.

:cool:

Have at it.

A. I can't wait for the team to lose. Check
B. I care more about being right than about my own team winning. Check
C. The Bills really aren't my team. Check
D. I said something in there that makes it impossible for some posters to not see that it wasn't a personal insult. Check

There are valid points here.

We played well overall but there are a lot of dips in the game both on offense and defense that indicate possible future struggles.

We barely touched Tannehill in the second half when we really should have been able to pressure him a lot seeing as how we were leading.

Against Chicago we were fortunate Trestman didn't realize he should have run the ball a lot more. Had he done that we would have been in trouble.

Our offense had 3 redzone trips in the first quarter and a bit and came away with 3 FGs. If the D didn't completely shut down Miami in the first half we could have been losing despite having incredible field position compared to them and multiple redzone trips.

All that being said, the defense did enough to win and Manuel did enough to win. I think for us to make the playoffs our D will have to be Baltimore-like because Manuel is not yet ready to put up big numbers in the redzone and we will settle for FGs a lot.

[Dujek]

There are a few things that are different. The first is that the teams the Bills have beaten have looked like genuine contenders in the other games they have played.

Secondly, the Bills have more talent than I can remember for a long time, in every facet of the game.

Most importantly, football is won and lost in the trenches. There isn't a better DL in the league, and the OL has been very impressive especially in the passing game against what is considered to be a talented Dolphins DL. The Bills will win more than they lose, simply because both lines will beat the everloving **** out of the opposition.

[stuckincincy]

There are a few things that are different. The first is that the teams the Bills have beaten have looked like genuine contenders in the other games they have played.

Secondly, the Bills have more talent than I can remember for a long time, in every facet of the game.

Most importantly, football is won and lost in the trenches. There isn't a better DL in the league, and the OL has been very impressive especially in the passing game against what is considered to be a talented Dolphins DL. The Bills will win more than they lose, simply because both lines will beat the everloving **** out of the opposition.

I'd hold off on that until they come up against a club with a strong, determined ground game and/or strong passing team with above average qb and OL.

[ServoBillieves]

I'd hold off on that until they come up against a club with a strong, determined ground game and/or strong passing team with above average qb and OL.

I guess Cutler is below average and Matt Forte is a joke as well, so you're right. We play 3 teams this year with those parameters, the Chargers, Broncos, and Packers. Maybe the Lions? I'm not attacking I'm asking which team is the litmus test as to the mettle of Williams x2, Dareus, Hughes, Lawson and Wynn.

[Dujek]

I'd hold off on that until they come up against a club with a strong, determined ground game and/or strong passing team with above average qb and OL.

The Bears don't fall into that category?

[stuckincincy]

The Bears don't fall into that category?

Perhaps, but for reasons unknown they decided to toss 31 passes in the 2nd half. Cutler has a temper and is known to let his ego take over. Someone mentioned that Cutler reminded him of Jeff George and I agree.

MIA's RB Moreno, who had a nice game in beating NE, only got 1 carry before injury sat him down.

SD is 1 and 1, the loss being a one-pointer against AZ. SD lost their top RB. But Rivers makes their remaining backs better.

This will be a good test for BUF, and they will have the advantage of a home crowd.

One recommendation I have is that Rivers is good in moving the ball late in the game and taking advantage of a prevent scheme by hitting the sidelines. Well, that's my opinion.

I'd be careful about blitzing if the choice is between a tying fg and a winning touchdown. :2cents:

[imbondz]

I don't know if there is a differene yet. I like to think there is, but I have thought that before too. Certainly there are positive signs - the defense is doing its job. They played a good team on the road in week 1 and won the game, even after losing a lead. They played an emotionally charged game in week 2 and did not wilt.

They certainly seem to have more actual talent. They are not starting guys that were picked up as street free agents all over the place. There is a mix of youth and experience. They can produce in some key areas like the pass rush. The offense is not making dumb mistakes.

that being said a collapse is still very possible. What if the offense starts to turn the ball over? What if the defense stops making sacks and ints?

The next few weeks are huge. Can they come off this week's win and beat a good San Diego team? Can they go to Houston and beat a team that they "should" beat? Then New England comes here. Imagine the atmosphere if the Pats come here to play a 4-0 Bills team?

We all know it could be a 2-2 team too.

Right now they are doing the small things the good teams do. If they keep it up they can win 8-10 games.

Meaningful football in December would be awesome


3-1 would be exciting too

[RedEyE]

It's really too difficult to tell at this point and too exhausting to dissect.

Again, I'm cautiously optimistic, but if this team does in fact beat the Chargers this week, it will be very difficult to just shrug off a 3-0 record with wins against the Bears in Chicago, a division rival, and the supercharged SD offense.

[YardRat]

We won't know if it's 'real' this time or not until well into the season. I remain cautiously optimistic and hope for the best, while acknowledging that the worst can still happen.

That being said, some of the things I like about this team...

I like what Whaley and Co have done to build the roster, although admittedly not 100% sold on the wisdom of all of their moves. I absolutely love that this front office appears to actually be on the same page as many armchair GM's. Often in the past, 'we' think we know what the team needs and who the team should target only to see the front office go in a different direction on players and/or positions. 'We' know they need veteran, quality depth at corner, and they get one. 'We' know they need run-stuffing help at MLB, and they get one. 'We' know they need upgrades at the skill positions on offense, they get some. 'We' know they need a vet back-up at QB, they get one. The list can go on.

I like how the team is built. Despite many's contention that winning starts and ends with a franchise QB, it's too much of a historical fact that games are won in the trenches, and championships by defense. This team is at least trying to build a dominant defense, and offense that revolves around the running game, or being able to win the battle in the trenches. This can be a fun team to watch for my preferences, if they can continue to upgrade and improve in both areas.

I like the depth. We appear to be stacked at many positions, and any dropoff in talent that we've grown accustomed to over the last 15 years isn't as drastic as it used to be. Having a Graham available to step in, as opposed to a Brooks, when Gilmore or McKelvin can't go is huge.

Is it too early to proclaim we are 'there' or this season is going to be different? Absolutely. Does the team still have areas of concern, and flaws, and positions that need upgrading? Definite 'Yes'. Could the wheels fall off again? Yes. But, regardless of the eventual outcome of this season, so far I like the direction we are heading and I am going to enjoy the ride.

[HAMMER]

There is a difference,
-New Coaches
-New Players
That's a lot of differences. Approx 60 or so.

[psubills62]

Been saying since the offseason: I don't agree with all the moves the FO or coaches make, but they have upgraded the talent on this team. Not entirely sold on the coaches, but I like the offensive plays better this season. Defense is playing much better.

Whatever happens this season, I really, really wish it could have been with Alonso on the field.

I still don't know if it's playoff-worthy, but this team hung with Chicago on the road and dominated Miami at home. I think it will be an interesting season.

[Ed]

I think overall talent and depth are better right now than 2011 or 2008. Gailey even admitted that a lot of their early success in 2011 was "smoke and mirrors."

I think another important difference is that the AFC just isn't that strong right now. Outside of the Denver Broncos there's really not another team in the AFC that looks really good. They're all flawed and beatable.

[PromoTheRobot]

Roster depth

[Night Train]

This is the best D we've had since the last time we made the playoffs...by far.

I never like the " we should win.." proclamations, since the NFL is a whole new book every week.

We'll lose games. But this team doesn't look emotionally fragile and can rebound if key injuries don't crush them.

[Jry44]

I think a big reason why the 2008 and 2011 teams failed was that they were one dimensional on O. Once other teams figured out what they were doing, they were unable to adjust.

Is this team different? I really don't know. They have more talent than those earlier teams at the skill positions, but it depends on EJ and the OL continuing to play well and the coaches being creative enough to keep the offense evolving once other teams figure out what they are doing.

The D will be fine as long as the O can stay on the field.


Great point. I know that for me at least, in 2011 it was nice that we started off scoring over 30pts a game. However the black cloud hanging over for me was that the defense was giving up just as many. The writing was on the walls for me....

How is this season different? We went into Chicago to open things up and held arguably the best offensive team in football to 20pts and beat them in OT. This same Bears team that went into San Fran on Sunday night football and hung 28 on the 49ers defense, who many believe to be among the leagues best while beating them in the first game in their new stadium!

We also pretty handedly beat down a Miami team that beat down a popular superbowl pick in New England. Hanging 29 on a pretty damn good defensive football team while all but shutting down a rushing attack that gave NE fits is nice. So two early wins over teams that have beaten NE and San Fran is pretty nice.

That little black cloud? The red zone offense. However I don't think it's as dark of a cloud as our defense giving up 30 a game was in 2011. We are driving the field and the plays are there to be made. We have had some near misses that the offense needs to capitalize on. Whether they can start doing that is going to determine how good this team will be.

[Fletch]

I'd change the numbers a bit, but otherwise I agree. Really there isn't much difference between the teams that go 10-6 and the teams that go 6-10. Some luck, injuries, coaching decisions and mental toughness is about the only difference.

Then how come none of our last three 6-10 seasons werw 10-6 or even 8-8?

Wouldn't you ahve to argue then too that there's not that much difference between a 6-10 season and a 2-14 one?

Just throwing that out there. Seems like every year people make this argument but we never seem to have luck, injuries, coaching decisions and mental toughness fall on our side. That has to be coincidence for most of the last 12 years then.

[Fletch]

This is the best D we've had since the last time we made the playoffs...by far.

Based on two games, one of whiich was Miami?

A bit premature isn't it.

[Dr. Lecter]

Based on two games, one of whiich was Miami?

A bit premature isn't it.

What did Miami do in week one?

[DraftBoy]

Growth by the GM and Coaching Staff.

For all the guff about the Watkins trade up, he drafted two other starters in Preston Brown (leads all rookie defenders in tackles) and Seantrell Henderson (nothing short of dominate) who have to be considered steals early in the season. His move to add Graham, Spikes, and Dixon all look to be strong under the radar adds. Additionally trading away Stevie Johnson seems to have had no ill effects on the WR core which is deeper and more versatile.

The coaching staff has been fantastic as well. Hackett has really grown into the role as both a schemer and play caller. His scheme in weeks 1 and 2 have been dead on and his play calls have allowed his players to execute for big plays. Marrone's hire of Jim Schwartz brought a veteran voice to the coaching room and allowed our D to remain strong and not go to crap when Pettine left.

Many others have highlighted players growth and depth but the FO and Coaching Staff deserve a ton of credit right now.

[Fletch]

Many others have highlighted players growth and depth but the FO and Coaching Staff deserve a ton of credit right now.

Right now. If your feelings are the same at midseason and at the end of it you'll be onto something.