Stephon Gilmore

[more cowbell]

Without question the Bills player I've hated most since Donte Whitner.

Should be a funny matchup this week with him "covering" Andre Johnson...Fitz will rack it up because Gilmore plays 10 yards off the wr every play...hello dink and dunk.

He should also be good for a couple holding and/or illegal contact penalties, and DEFINITELY a few missed tackles on the back coming out of the backfield on a 2 yard pass.

Dude is an absolute bust and one of the worst players on the defense...I'm sure I'll get ripped on here and be accused of "not understanding football" but I call it like I see it...and the guy has done nothing but look lost his first 3 years in the league.

[Historian]

Wasted first round pick.

(along with about 45 others)

[BuffaloRedleg]

I'm re-watching the game right now and he played fine. Not to make an excuse for the overall team loss, but the Chargers were setting a lot of picks that should have been called. He didn't play great by any means and I don't think he was worth where we picked him, but he's not a total loss. I can't find any stats on targets, but teams seem to rarely throw at him. He's not a shut down CB, but he's fine and by no means close to the main problem on this team.

[BOBM253]

I think he's a good player. Maybe some nagging injuries still affecting his play but I think he'll be fine.

[Fletch]

I'm re-watching the game right now and he played fine. Not to make an excuse for the overall team loss, but the Chargers were setting a lot of picks that should have been called. He didn't play great by any means and I don't think he was worth where we picked him, but he's not a total loss. I can't find any stats on targets, but teams seem to rarely throw at him. He's not a shut down CB, but he's fine and by no means close to the main problem on this team.

That's how I see it too. Another not so great draft pick but definitely not among the primary reasons why we suck.

[OpIv37]

Here's the real issue: wasted first round picks are a HUGE reason why this team has sucked for so long. We've been bad so we've had a lot of high picks. Those are the best chance we have at getting better. But so many high draft picks were complete busts, never lived up to their draft status or just aren't here anymore.

If our high draft picks aren't on the field for us playing like superstars, we will always be behind the teams getting production out of their picks that is equal to or better than their draft status.

EJ, Gilmore and McKelvin need to step it up if this team is going to win.

[Fletch]

EJ's doing nothing of the sort. We could live with Gilmore and even Spiller and Watkins, but the real damage has been done with Whaley having no checks on him. Since 2010 he was just the main personnel guy. Last year and this he was the GM or in the case of last year playing the role if not officially having been handed the part.

He reached for Manuel which then caused him to have to give away the farm to get Watkins. Those two moves will have set this team back at least a couple of years.

The other thing that sets this team back is Mario. I can put it in print 20 times in a row but a bunch of posters here still won't get it. It's not that Mario isn't good, it's that he's just not worth almost a 100M. The team could have done so much more with that kind of money.

Getting back to your point, if you get a Gilmore or Spiller, fine, you can work them in despite their not having been worth the picks that were used to get them, but when you reach for a Manuel and then expend two 1st-rounders and a 4th to try to do something to cover up that stupid and idiotic decision, then you create a hole that's much more difficult to climb out of.

Not only was Manuel a waste of that pick, but we have no QB and no 1st-rounder to get one next season. We're completely reliant upon 2nd round leftovers or free agency where few great QBs ever end up unless they're washed up. I guess we could trade but we may want to get rid of Whaley before that or who knows how far we'll have to drop our pants with him doing our negotiating.

[kingJofNYC]

Gilmore was great down the stretch last year, he shut down Vincent Jackson and we still got rolled. He hasn't been good this year, but outside of Williams and Graham no one in the secondary looks good. I like Gilmore, still have hope for him. Too many injuries early in his career too, played most of the season with a cast, how the hell can we judge him off of that?

Bottom line, the Defensive gameplan was ****, we're predictable, and were completely unprepared. It's simple, go back and watch all the communication issues in the secondary any time they motioned a WR. Chargers knew exactly how to attack us because we do the same **** all game long.

[Mace]

I have more patience with Gilmore in his 3rd year than I do with McKelvin in his 6th even if it worries me he always seems to be injured one place or another.

They need to get Graham in there more if McKelvin is reverting to pre-Pettine defense form.

[BillsImpossible]

Come next home game against the Pats, if Corey Graham isn't on the field to start on defense I hope every Bills fans at RWS boos and throws tomatoes at the coaching staff.

[The Jokeman]

Here's the real issue: wasted first round picks are a HUGE reason why this team has sucked for so long. We've been bad so we've had a lot of high picks. Those are the best chance we have at getting better. But so many high draft picks were complete busts, never lived up to their draft status or just aren't here anymore.

If our high draft picks aren't on the field for us playing like superstars, we will always be behind the teams getting production out of their picks that is equal to or better than their draft status.

EJ, Gilmore and McKelvin need to step it up if this team is going to win.

DING DING DING. Thank you but it's not just that it's also getting very little contribution to later round picks too. I mean outside of SJ13 and Kyle Williams can anyone without looking name a guy we drafted after Round 5 that made a major contribution as a starter? Henderson this yar the first one I can think of. This team has been a horrible drafting team since Butler left if you really study things. As a result we have had then bring in UFAs to mask those errors but sadly we've made mistakes there too. At least it seems Whaley's been able to get contributions from some of the UFAs like Graham and seems to get something from Hughes and he's and/or build depth in guys like Wynn, Lawson and Charles which we rarely saw in the past.

[bf1]

Buddy Nix's insistence to "build through the draft" continues to haunt us.

[The Jokeman]

Buddy Nix's insistence to "build through the draft" continues to haunt us.

Nix was a bad GM but Marvy Levy was worse with his UFA signings like Dockery, Walker and lest we forget Matt Bowen, Larry Triplett, Brian Brohm.

[ServoBillieves]

I'm baffled by the fact he can hold on to receivers but he can't hold on to make a tackle.

That being said, I'm with Mace; I have more issues with McKelvin being awful this year than I do with Gilmore in his 3rd year. McKelvin showed up last year, but as a first rounder (I even forgot for a stretch he was the #11 pick) you need to be shut down. He isn't.

[The Jokeman]

I'm baffled by the fact he can hold on to receivers but he can't hold on to make a tackle.

That being said, I'm with Mace; I have more issues with McKelvin being awful this year than I do with Gilmore in his 3rd year. McKelvin showed up last year, but as a first rounder (I even forgot for a stretch he was the #11 pick) you need to be shut down. He isn't.

I think McKelvin isn't 100% healthy but hard to say as in years past he's always been great at keeping up with his man but then had no ball skills and as a result got teams were able to throw over his head. This year he's still keeping with his man but with the new rules he's playing it too close and getting flagged. Of the two McKelvin makes you angrier because we re-signed him where Gilmore's working off his rookie contract.

[kingJofNYC]

Buddy Nix's insistence to "build through the draft" continues to haunt us.

Seahawks are built through the draft... Sprinkle in a couple of nice but cheap FA signings, and a good trade.

When you know what the **** you're doing amazing things can happen. Look at the Bengals, basically all draft.

[bf1]

Nix was a bad GM but Marvy Levy was worse with his UFA signings like Dockery, Walker and lest we forget Matt Bowen, Larry Triplett, Brian Brohm.

Definitely. Marv dug a huge hole. Buddy dug a little deeper.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Come next home game against the Pats, if Corey Graham isn't on the field to start on defense I hope every Bills fans at RWS boos and throws tomatoes at the coaching staff.

Yeah the whole crowd is going to be like "BOOOOO GRAHAM HAS ONLY PLAYED 56% OF THE DEFENSIVE PLAYSSSS BOOOOOO""" WHAT???

[stuckincincy]

Looking at the BUF drafts since McK (and Reggie Corner were drafted), one could make a case that they have been trying to replace him for years. Since McK was drafted in 2008, they've drafted Duke Williams, Jonathan Meeks, Gilmore, Aaron Williams, Da'Norris Searcy, Jarius Byrd, Cary Harris and Erik Langster.

[Fletch]

Gilmore was great down the stretch last year, he shut down Vincent Jackson and we still got rolled. He hasn't been good this year, but outside of Williams and Graham no one in the secondary looks good. I like Gilmore, still have hope for him. Too many injuries early in his career too, played most of the season with a cast, how the hell can we judge him off of that?

Bottom line, the Defensive gameplan was ****, we're predictable, and were completely unprepared. It's simple, go back and watch all the communication issues in the secondary any time they motioned a WR. Chargers knew exactly how to attack us because we do the same **** all game long.

All of the DBs looked better last season because of the pressure we put on up front. The problem is that it did not make our D better overall. Even the most pedestrian RBs had big days and despite all that pass pressure good passing teams had no trouble passing on us and putting up both yards and points, even if we sacked them a lot like in the Atlanta and NO games.

Despite how good some thought that our D was on paper we were tied with the Jags for most defensive plays allowed.

What we're seeing this year is our DC not going all-in on pass D and the DBs simply having to play their positions the way that most DBs play them. We're not very good at it because we don't have very good DBs contrary to the opinions of some otherwise. If they were that good then we wouldn't be giving up the plays we give up.

Systems don't win games, players do.

[Fletch]

I have more patience with Gilmore in his 3rd year than I do with McKelvin in his 6th even if it worries me he always seems to be injured one place or another.

They need to get Graham in there more if McKelvin is reverting to pre-Pettine defense form.

Either way, as a 10th overall Gilmore should be playing much better than he is.

- - - Updated - - -


Definitely. Marv dug a huge hole. Buddy dug a little deeper.

Whaley hasn't put a moratorium on the digging.

[better days]

Buddy Nix's insistence to "build through the draft" continues to haunt us.

LMAO, yeah who ever heard of building through the draft.

Everyone should know it is a much more effective way to build a team with OLD OVERPRICED FA's than cheap young draft picks.

[stuckincincy]

LMAO, yeah who ever heard of building through the draft.

Everyone should know it is a much more effective way to build a team with OLD OVERPRICED FA's than cheap young draft picks.

Like Brandon Spikes?

[better days]

Like Brandon Spikes?

Yeah, because Brandon Spikes is old & overpriced.

LMAO at you.

FA's like Spikes are GREAT for filling in holes, but you can not build an entire team with them.

The last team that had success with that was the Redskins in the late 70's early 80's.

[bf1]

LMAO, yeah who ever heard of building through the draft.

Everyone should know it is a much more effective way to build a team with OLD OVERPRICED FA's than cheap young draft picks.

You know what you are getting. Buddy took a few years off and was relying on the draft only. Look at 10, 11, 12 drafts. Who's contributing?
Gilmore: Not 1st round talent
Glenn: ok
Bradham: ok
Darious: Gimme
Aaron Williams: Nothing special
Spiller: Never amounted to 1st round talent

Constantly trying to fill holes that were made by draft misses and never trying to fill any with know talent. Plus let some talent walk to avoid "over paying"

[better days]

You know what you are getting. Buddy took a few years off and was relying on the draft only. Look at 10, 11, 12 drafts. Who's contributing?
Gilmore: Not 1st round talent
Glenn: ok
Bradham: ok
Darious: Gimme
Aaron Williams: Nothing special
Spiller: Never amounted to 1st round talent

Constantly trying to fill holes that were made by draft misses and never trying to fill any with know talent. Plus let some talent walk to avoid "over paying"

Well, Byrd has really helped the Saints.

And Clements & Whitner really helped the teams that OVERPAID for them.

You named 6 players on the team CONTRIBUTING, here are some others:

Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Eric Wood, Fred Jackson (FA), Kyle Williams, Kiko Alonso (IR), Nigel Bradham,

[stuckincincy]

Yeah, because Brandon Spikes is old & overpriced.

LMAO at you.

FA's like Spikes are GREAT for filling in holes, but you can not build an entire team with them.

The last team that had success with that was the Redskins in the late 70's early 80's.

I don't understand the Skin's reference.

Putting in a Brandon Spikes at a critical position like MLB - who you want to range from sideline to sideline, up to the line, fill a hold, peddle back and cover a receiver and so on, is not a spot you hire your buddy, Spikes for. He plays as a 5th OL without his knuckles down.

Now you ADMIT he's there in a limited role, and couch your previous statements, your battling with other posters, now saying that "FA's like Spikes are GREAT for filling holes, but you can not build an entire team around him."

[better days]

I don't understand the Skin's reference.

Putting in a Brandon Spikes at a critical position like MLB - who you want to range from sideline to sideline, up to the line, fill a hold, peddle back and cover a receiver and so on, is not a spot you hire your buddy, Spikes for. He plays as a 5th OL without his knuckles down.

Now you ADMIT he's there in a limited role, and couch your previous statements, your battling with other posters, now saying that "FA's like Spikes are GREAT for filling holes, but you can not build an entire team around him."

I had the time line wrong, it was the early 1970's Redskins HC George Allen built a team of OLD SEASONED Vets.

It included former Bills GREAT, Ron McDole.

He traded away most of his draft picks. The team was nicknamed the "Over the Hill Gang" also the name of a popular Western Movie about that time.

I always said Spikes was signed to help the Run Defense, I don't know what you are talking about.

And Spikes is recognized as one of the very best run defenders in the entire NFL.

[stuckincincy]

I had the time line wrong, it was the early 1970's Redskins HC George Allen built a team of OLD SEASONED Vets.

It included former Bills GREAT, Ron McDole.

He traded away most of his draft picks. The team was nicknamed the "Over the Hill Gang" also the name of a popular Western Movie about that time.

I always said Spikes was signed to help the Run Defense, I don't know what you are talking about.

And Spikes is recognized as one of the very best run defenders in the entire NFL.

Then you should have said what he was - a lineman, not a linebacker. He got a mere 18 snaps last week, after 50+ in the first 2 games. BUF know has figured out why NE didn't retain him. When he's in the lineup, opposing clubs know it's pass time.

[Mr. Pink]

Gilmore is subpar at covering and one of the worst tacklers on the team.

We aimed for a shut down corner and got a dud.

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, because Brandon Spikes is old & overpriced.

LMAO at you.

FA's like Spikes are GREAT for filling in holes, but you can not build an entire team with them.

The last team that had success with that was the Redskins in the late 70's early 80's.

Ummm, there was no such thing as FA back in the late 70's.

[kingJofNYC]

All of the DBs looked better last season because of the pressure we put on up front. The problem is that it did not make our D better overall. Even the most pedestrian RBs had big days and despite all that pass pressure good passing teams had no trouble passing on us and putting up both yards and points, even if we sacked them a lot like in the Atlanta and NO games.

Despite how good some thought that our D was on paper we were tied with the Jags for most defensive plays allowed.

What we're seeing this year is our DC not going all-in on pass D and the DBs simply having to play their positions the way that most DBs play them. We're not very good at it because we don't have very good DBs contrary to the opinions of some otherwise. If they were that good then we wouldn't be giving up the plays we give up.

Systems don't win games, players do.

Bad systems put players in bad situations, so even if they're good it makes it harder to win when the coaching staff isn't putting them in favorable situations.

If you go back and look at last year, we didn't even rush more than 5 most games, we disguised 4 man pressure better than any team in the league. We would show 8 man fronts, drop out and rush 4 and get insane pressure because the OL had no clue who to pick up. Did we do a good job against the run week 1 under Schwartz? **** no. Chargers were down to their 3rd back and had injuries on the OL. Dolphins lost their back early in the game and wouldn't commit to running the ball. I don't think we've faced a good running team yet. Bottom line Schwartz is predictable, and it does no one any favors.

Good write up on Gilmore below. Love how Gilmore is essentially covering no one before Green is motioned, then has to run all the way across the field when Green moves across, only for the D to not communicate and have Gilmore chase him back across the field. Systems don't win games, but they certainly help.

http://buffalowins.com/buffalo-bills/beyond-the-stats-with-nickelcitybills-analyzing-stephon-gilmore.html

[OpIv37]

I had the time line wrong, it was the early 1970's Redskins HC George Allen built a team of OLD SEASONED Vets.

It included former Bills GREAT, Ron McDole.

He traded away most of his draft picks. The team was nicknamed the "Over the Hill Gang" also the name of a popular Western Movie about that time.

I always said Spikes was signed to help the Run Defense, I don't know what you are talking about.

And Spikes is recognized as one of the very best run defenders in the entire NFL.

Yeah, you always defend whatever the team does. But since you've been doing that, the team has consistently lost. So, stop and think about that for a moment.

[MikeNC]

Doesn't look like he's excited to be a Buffalo Bill... http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=stephon+gilmore+draft+day+video&qpvt=stephon+gilmore+draft+day+video&FORM=VDRE#view=detail&mid=C13827E704B7417666B0C13827E704B7417666B0
And it shows in his playing ability....

[Fletch]

FA's like Spikes are GREAT for filling in holes, but you can not build an entire team with them.

LOL

Funny, the entire forum said almost the opposite in the weeks and months preceding the season, you included.

[Fletch]

Then you should have said what he was - a lineman, not a linebacker. He got a mere 18 snaps last week, after 50+ in the first 2 games. BUF know has figured out why NE didn't retain him. When he's in the lineup, opposing clubs know it's pass time.

Everyone knew, not just the Pats. It is obvious. He was literally the lowest rated MLB against the pass.

We signed him and our team started foaming at the mouth about how good he would be here and help our D, and fans listened to the team, as usual, instead of choosing to take that info and put the pieces together logically.

Blame Whaley and the front office. It's just one more example of why they need to go on top of a huge pile of examples, most of which were at one time or another fully supported not only by better days but by most regular posters here.

The interesting thing is that the two big reasons why we were supposed to be a playoff team this season are Watkins and Spikes and so far neither one has even come close to doing what we were told they would. The logical question to ask is why will we be better than last season if these do don't end up doing what Whaley and Marrone told us they will? There really weren't any other major changes to this team, only major losses. Byrd, Stevie's production, who had 236 yards and 2 TDs at this time last season, and Alonso. Not one of our WRs has even come close to Stevie's numbers through three games last season and Stevie right now has 13 catches for 162 yards to Watkins 13 for 167 and he's a 3/4 WR in San fran.

I took a rash prior to the season for pointing out that this would be the case with Spikes.

[casdhf]

SD was in 3 or 4 wide sets the entire game. Spikes doesn't play in those situations

[Fletch]

Spikes hasn't and doesn't play in most situations. He's off the field more than he's on it.

Tough to make the kind of impact people were talking about under those circumstances. I guess he could be a real leader from the sidelines.

[chernobylwraiths]

DING DING DING. Thank you but it's not just that it's also getting very little contribution to later round picks too. I mean outside of SJ13 and Kyle Williams can anyone without looking name a guy we drafted after Round 5 that made a major contribution as a starter? Henderson this yar the first one I can think of. This team has been a horrible drafting team since Butler left if you really study things. As a result we have had then bring in UFAs to mask those errors but sadly we've made mistakes there too. At least it seems Whaley's been able to get contributions from some of the UFAs like Graham and seems to get something from Hughes and he's and/or build depth in guys like Wynn, Lawson and Charles which we rarely saw in the past.

Ok, here is a list of players taken round 4 or higher who, while they may not be superstars, have contributed:

2010
Marcus Easley 4th round - very good special teams player
Arthur Moats 6th round - decent back up linebacker

2011
Da'Norris Searcy - 4th round starting safety (he's OK)
Chris Hairston - 4th round (backup OL)

2012
Nigel Bradham - 4th round starting linebacker
Ron Brooks - 4th round (fighting for nickel corner)

2013
Duke Williams - 4th round backup safety
Chris Gragg - 7th round 3rd string TE

and this year Cyril Richardson will probably start this year (5th rounder) besides Henderson in the 7th

so, some decent guys like Bradham, Searcy. Some young guys with potential in Henderson and Richardson and some depth. Considering many draft picks don't make it for more than a few years, it isn't horrible. Let's wait and see on Whaley.