I'm not here to defend EJ, but...

[GingerP]

Not to get sidetracked into *****ing about EJ, I don't think he is any good either. However, the coaching staff bears a bigger portion of the blame.

The Bills threw 44 times yesterday against 23 rushes. They were playing a Texans team that was given up over 5 yards per rush this year going into the game, on the road no less. You know your young QB is suspect, yet to put the game on his shoulders? How stupid is that?

It wasn't a case of throwing a lot late to come from behind, either. IN the first half they threw 25 passes against only 14 rushes. Those 14 rushes netted 72 yards for a healthy 5.1-yards per-rush. The 25 passes only netted 89 yards for a putrid 3.56 yards per attempt. Yet, in spite of leading at the half they still threw twice as much in the 2nd half as they ran the ball.

People are dogging Fitz, but he has set career highs in completion percentage (65.2%) and yards-per-attempt (8.1) so far this year. Why? Because the Texans coaches know he is a pick machine that will be exposed the more he is asked to do. They have run the ball 129 times against only 113 passes. That is protecting your suspect QB, not hanging him out to dry like the Bills (132 passes against 111 rushes).

EJ is a young guy and hasn't played well, but the coaches have done him no favors by asking him to do too much. They should be running the football more and asking EJ to be a complementary piece. EJ is taking a lot of criticism, and he has not played well, but to me the real criticism is with the coaching staff.

[Fletch]

I'll agree with that generally speaking, but here's something that you didn't factor in.

I think that they have EJ throwing the ball that many times because the running game really hasn't worked all that well except for in the first game. Except for a onesy long run by either Jackson or Spiller neither is consistently netting a good ypc avg.

Defenses can cheat up because they know that the odds of getting burned deep by Manuel aren't good. Manuel's passes are mostly short with some medium ones in there, which clearly the staff feels that he's only capable of handling and not a lot of deep balls for reasons that you stated.

That's the problem with a short throwing QB. Watkins was supposed to have been somewhat of a fix for that with everyone overstating his collegiate ability to take short passes and turn them into long gains. Few realized that such a transition from college to pro doesn't go well typically if ever.

The line was horrible yesterday and not just the guards. It seems to be getting worse by the week and falling apart rapidly. Maybe defensive coordinators have figured it out, who knows.

The things that are clear is that Watkins isn't what everyone said he was. Neither is Williams. Manuel is never going to succeed as a starting QB at the NFL level. His struggles from his years at FSU and last season continue without any signs of improvement whatsoever. Some will insist that he'll take three or four more seasons, but besides no team being able to wait that long, he won't even do it then. He's never shown an ability to correct the things he's doing wrong, ever, at either the NCAA level much less at this one. If he couldn't do it there he most clearly isn't going to do it here.

[Novacane]

And many of those pass plays called were open and not executed by the QB. On the radio this morning Freddie said the Texan D alignment was why they passed more. Our biggest problem is EJ.

[Fletch]

I think that coaching is an equal part. Both suck.

[Skooby]

And many of those pass plays called were open and not executed by the QB. On the radio this morning Freddie said the Texan D alignment was why they passed more. Our biggest problem is EJ.

Yeah, it's called 8 in the box & we know the QB is incapable of throwing an accurate pass.

[Thunderkyss]

I think Manuel is getting a raw deal from the fans.

He threw the ball 44 times, but most of them were to Spiller & Jackson, pretty much a long hand off. When he did find the open receiver down the field, they dropped the ball. Sure, none of the balls were perfect & the WR would have had to make pretty good catches... but that's what you pay them for.

You would like your QB to be more accurate & have a better understanding of placement & anticipation, but... your best WR is rookie who is adjusting to the NFL. Those other guys, Robert Wood, et. al... should be feeling the ire of the fans more than Ej Manuel.

The pick 6 by Watt was more of a better play by Watt & excellent blocking by Jackson than it was a poor play by Manuel (just thought I'd throw that in there).

[Fletch]

Every team has dropped passes each week, this isn't something that only relates to us.

Manuel may be taking more than his share of the the heat, I agree. Whaley should be taking it for Watkins. The coaching staff sucks and should be taking an equal share.

Your point is well taken since so many here seem to think that we're still a QB away from being playoff competitive, which is a ridiculous conclusion.

[EDS]

I think Manuel is getting a raw deal from the fans.

He threw the ball 44 times, but most of them were to Spiller & Jackson, pretty much a long hand off. When he did find the open receiver down the field, they dropped the ball. Sure, none of the balls were perfect & the WR would have had to make pretty good catches... but that's what you pay them for.

You would like your QB to be more accurate & have a better understanding of placement & anticipation, but... your best WR is rookie who is adjusting to the NFL. Those other guys, Robert Wood, et. al... should be feeling the ire of the fans more than Ej Manuel.

The pick 6 by Watt was more of a better play by Watt & excellent blocking by Jackson than it was a poor play by Manuel (just thought I'd throw that in there).

Watt is not know for swatting passes down at the line of scrimmage . . . . How could the Bills and EJ anticipate that . . . .

[Novacane]

Every team has dropped passes each week, this isn't something that only relates to us.

Manuel may be taking more than his share of the the heat, I agree. Whaley should be taking it for Watkins. The coaching staff sucks and should be taking an equal share.

Your point is well taken since so many here seem to think that we're still a QB away from being playoff competitive, which is a ridiculous conclusion.

With competent QB play they win yesterday and would of been in the SD game. It's not a ridiculous conclusion. The NFL is full of average teams. The Bills are good enough to compete for a playoff spot with decent QB play.

[OpIv37]

This team has issues beyond EJ. No doubt about that.

Here's the problem though: despite questionable coaching, a patchwork OL with 2 rookies, over-relying on a rookie WR, LB's who can't cover in the passing game, a feast or famine D that over-relies on big plays, and taking far too many penalties, the rest of the team is playing well enough to win.

If EJ is just a little bit better, we could be 4-0. Hell, all he had to do yesterday was not throw a pick 6 and we're 3-1. He just has to be average and this team will win games.

[justasportsfan]

I think Manuel is getting a raw deal from the fans.



You have it the other way around. THe fans are getting a raw deal with EJ at qb. He should be in the practice squad and Tuel at back up.

[OpIv37]

You have it the other way around. THe fans are getting a raw deal with EJ at qb. He should be in the practice squad and Tuel at back up.

In the past, people have said that we were a QB away from winning. That was short-sighted because we had so many other issues, mainly a lack of weapons on O and a D that couldn't stop the O.

Now, that's no longer the case. This isn't a Super Bowl roster, but it appears as though it's talented enough to compete for a playoff spot IF they can get average QB play. EJ is the only thing holding this team back from being competitive right now.

[Fletch]

In the past, people have said that we were a QB away from winning. That was short-sighted because we had so many other issues, mainly a lack of weapons on O and a D that couldn't stop the O.

Now, that's no longer the case. This isn't a Super Bowl roster, but it appears as though it's talented enough to compete for a playoff spot IF they can get average QB play. EJ is the only thing holding this team back from being competitive right now.

I disagree. The defense is very overrated. Weak linebacking from a passing perspective and a questionable secondary are big weaknesses in today's NFL.

Spiller isn't running well and neither are Jackson. Both have had a one or two good long runs but neither runs very consistently right now. We can blame that on the OL, but then we can blame that on the OL.

[OpIv37]

I disagree. The defense is very overrated. Weak linebacking from a passing perspective and a questionable secondary are big weaknesses in today's NFL.

Spiller isn't running well and neither are Jackson. Both have had a one or two good long runs but neither runs very consistently right now. We can blame that on the OL, but then we can blame that on the OL.
Here's the thing though: better QB play spreads out their D so they can't concentrate on the run. It also means our D is off the field more. It will at least partially mitigate the two liabilities you described.

That's why I think the team can be competitive with better QB play. And again, I don't mean SB caliber. I'm just saying they would be able to win enough games to be in the playoff hunt and possibly sneak in with a few lucky breaks.

[justasportsfan]

when teams stack the line to stop the run, EJ makes the BILLS pay :ill:

[Forward_Lateral]

If EJ didn't make 10 horrible throws or miss 10 wide open guys, the team would've won in a blow out. His accuracy is getting worse. His field vision is terrible. He's not, at this point, an NFL QB.

Maybe he will get better, but if I'm the coach, and I have a guy like Orton, who's serviceable, and not horribly inaccurate, I go to him right now. Forget about EJ's ego. He needs to realize that if you don't play well, you get benched.

[GingerP]

And many of those pass plays called were open and not executed by the QB. On the radio this morning Freddie said the Texan D alignment was why they passed more. Our biggest problem is EJ.

That is over-thinking it. The fact is the Texans are not a good team against the run. You have a QB you can't rely on, so you take the pressure off him.

Look at the contrast with Houston. They are 3-1 with Fitzpatrick, because they are willing to run the ball. They would be doing it even more if Foster wasn't battling a hamstring issue. Before Foster got hurt, they gave him the ball and made him the key to their offense. They aren't about asking Fitzpatrick to win games.

At the end of the day, how can a coaching staff not run the ball more given he way the Bills are built? Unless they fall down by a couple of touchdowns or more, they should be running the ball 60% of the time.

[Cleve]

Every team that faces the Bills must be thinking, when planning their defense against the Bills - "Force the Bills to pass!"

The Bills finally learned that successful football teams draft their franchise QB.

What they didn't seem to learn - said QB must be an elite QB.

[trapezeus]

i think the play calling was not awful but good enough. EJ wasn't good enough.

we can point to the first 3 plays being passing on a suspect run d. We can point to running a lot of plays towards watts side. We can talk about the stupid read option where EJ never runs and it's a slow cumbersome process. Yet when they did a straight handoff, it looked better.

i'm beginning to lean towards the coaching being good enough at this stage, but that the QB play isn't there.

firing marrone and hackett would feel good, but i am not sure they are solely to blame. a decent couple throws and receivers who trust their qb are going to make some catches. guys are running wide open on plays. There are things working.

[Ginger Vitis]

I disagree. The defense is very overrated.


defense is averaging giving up 17 points a game. why you would think the defense is very overrated perhaps you're not watching the games

[ICRockets]

I don't believe Orton gives us any better chance to win than EJ does, but at this point you really have to give serious consideration to giving him the nod just so we can find out.