Some info on Orton

[Fletch]

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/4/19/840423/tales-who-is-kyle-orton

fwiw

[better days]

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/4/19/840423/tales-who-is-kyle-orton

fwiw

A long write up, but very interesting. I think EJ can learn something from Orton by sitting a while & watching Orton play.

[Fletch]

Yeah, it was interesting for sure. I skimmed it and hit the meaty parts.

I don't think that learning is EJ's problem. It's the ability to put what he's learned into practice, which he seems to be unable to do. We keep hearing about how bright the guy is, but bright people don't struggle like he does in doing that. He's got the softs but he just doesn't and never had the hard skills. It was always his athleticism that allowed him to be a very average college QB.

I have no idea why anyone thought he'd be average in the NFL when he couldn't do more than that in college.

The key for us is a new GM and head coach. The current ones might string this out much further than it should be strung out. They need to admit the mistake and move on. I don't see Whaley doing that, especially since he's all-in on Manuel now he really can't and get away with it. If they don't move on then it will inhibit us from getting a real QB. Time to let Manuel be another team's project. Time to let Whaley go. Both were equally bad decisions for this team. Then fire Brandon who made that decision.

[The Jokeman]

Yeah, it was interesting for sure. I skimmed it and hit the meaty parts.

I don't think that learning is EJ's problem. It's the ability to put what he's learned into practice, which he seems to be unable to do. We keep hearing about how bright the guy is, but bright people don't struggle like he does in doing that. He's got the softs but he just doesn't and never had the hard skills. It was always his athleticism that allowed him to be a very average college QB.

I have no idea why anyone thought he'd be average in the NFL when he couldn't do more than that in college.

The key for us is a new GM and head coach. The current ones might string this out much further than it should be strung out. They need to admit the mistake and move on. I don't see Whaley doing that, especially since he's all-in on Manuel now he really can't and get away with it. If they don't move on then it will inhibit us from getting a real QB. Time to let Manuel be another team's project. Time to let Whaley go. Both were equally bad decisions for this team. Then fire Brandon who made that decision.

Your grass is greener on the other side angers me. As if you can't see that Whaley hasn't made this team better than it was you really need to bone up on your history. As quite frankly I think Whaley has done a good job in bringing in talent. Also look back at that draft where we took Manuel. Take a closer look, here's a list of the guys selected in the 1st after EJ. Sort through it and tell me which one of them would you want instead? Then tell me which NFL QB should we have signed for as an UFA that would fix our QB situation? It's easy to criticise but as of yet I haven't heard you tell me what you feel the better alternative was? As quite frankly there may not have been one.

17 17 Jarvis Jones Steelers LB Georgia
18 18 Eric Reid 49ers DB Louisiana State
19 19 Justin Pugh Giants T Syracuse
20 20 Kyle Long Bears G Oregon
21 21 Tyler Eifert Bengals TE Notre Dame
22 22 Desmond Trufant Falcons DB Washington
23 23 Sharrif Floyd Vikings DT Florida
24 24 Bjoern Werner Colts DE Florida State
25 25 Xavier Rhodes Vikings DB Florida State
26 26 Datone Jones Packers DE UCLA
27 27 DeAndre Hopkins Texans WR Clemson
28 28 Sylvester Williams Broncos DT North Carolina
29 29 Cordarrelle Patterson Vikings WR Tennessee
30 30 Alec Ogletree Rams LB Georgia
31 31 Travis Frederick Cowboys C Wisconsin
32 32 Matt Elam Ravens DB Florida

[better days]

Yeah, it was interesting for sure. I skimmed it and hit the meaty parts.

I don't think that learning is EJ's problem. It's the ability to put what he's learned into practice, which he seems to be unable to do. We keep hearing about how bright the guy is, but bright people don't struggle like he does in doing that. He's got the softs but he just doesn't and never had the hard skills. It was always his athleticism that allowed him to be a very average college QB.

I have no idea why anyone thought he'd be average in the NFL when he couldn't do more than that in college.

The key for us is a new GM and head coach. The current ones might string this out much further than it should be strung out. They need to admit the mistake and move on. I don't see Whaley doing that, especially since he's all-in on Manuel now he really can't and get away with it. If they don't move on then it will inhibit us from getting a real QB. Time to let Manuel be another team's project. Time to let Whaley go. Both were equally bad decisions for this team. Then fire Brandon who made that decision.

EJ went to bowl games in College & won them, he was the best QB in the Senior bowl for both teams.

EJ has never until now had an NFL vet to sit behind & learn from & his OC was in his first year last year with no NFL experience.

Questionable how much Hackett taught EJ.

[stuckincincy]

http://www.milehighreport.com/2009/4/19/840423/tales-who-is-kyle-orton

fwiw

Thanks - nice write-up.

Side note: Regarding Orton's interception totals, Lovie Smith kept him in against a strong CIN club his rookie year, letting him suffer through 5 picks. I thought that was merciless.

[Mike13]

He is also the lead singer for the Foo Fighters.

[BillsImpossible]

Orton knows how to run the no huddle, hmmm....

[BillsImpossible]

"For example, John Madden, during the Philly game, noted that the closer you get to the goal line, the better Kyle Orton is. He meant that Kyle can make all the throws in the shortened field. It really plays to his strengths..."

[BillsImpossible]

"Watching him carve up Philadelphia (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2008.htm)like a Thanksgiving turkey in Week 4 was enlightening. He threw 3 TD passes in the 1st half against a pretty good Philly defense. He really does excel in that red zone - he also used the no-huddle very effectively to control the blitz.. Orton was sacked 4 times, hit 4 times more, knocked down 3 times and had 2 batted balls. That was in just the 1st half plus 10 minutes of the Philadelphia game. He still came up with 3 TD passes in that time. That was pretty good, considering how he was pummeled:."

[BillsImpossible]

"Given the difficult road that his tenure in Chicago endured, his record of 21-12 says it all."

[BillsImpossible]

21-12 in Chicago. That's including his rookie year.

He can run a no huddle offense.

His red zone numbers are exactly what the Bills have been looking for.

I'm getting a woody reading this article.

[Fletch]

Your grass is greener on the other side angers me. As if you can't see that Whaley hasn't made this team better than it was you really need to bone up on your history. As quite frankly I think Whaley has done a good job in bringing in talent. Also look back at that draft where we took Manuel. Take a closer look, here's a list of the guys selected in the 1st after EJ. Sort through it and tell me which one of them would you want instead? Then tell me which NFL QB should we have signed for as an UFA that would fix our QB situation? It's easy to criticise but as of yet I haven't heard you tell me what you feel the better alternative was? As quite frankly there may not have been one.



Believe it or not there are other possibilities. First of all let's not forget that Whaley was the Asst. GM and top personnel guy since 2010. Selective memory failure is no excuse for not pointing that out.

Second of all I wouldn't have allowed this team to get into that predicament to begin with so laying Whaley's failures and mess from 2010 thru 2012 at my feet isn't fair.

So let's start there. I was literally screaming at my friends for us to select Wilson when he was available in 2012! Problem solved!

Anything else?

My grass is greener. Your suggesting that i'm just as foolish and stupid as Whaley annoys me.

I also wouldn't have wasted a 1st round pick on Spiller, 3rd round picks on Graham or Goodwin, or a 2nd rounder on Aaron Williams. I sure as hell wouldn't have traded away next year's 1st and 4th for Watkins and would have taken Evans or Benjamin instead, whichever was available at 9th if I even felt that I needed a WR that badly instead of not keeping Stevie for another season.

[Fletch]

EJ went to bowl games in College & won them, he was the best QB in the Senior bowl for both teams.

EJ has never until now had an NFL vet to sit behind & learn from & his OC was in his first year last year with no NFL experience.

Questionable how much Hackett taught EJ.

We've been through this. I post it again and people tell me I'm beating a dead horse. You were in on this very conversation months back. Go reread it.

FSU won despite EJ not because of him. He had one good bowl game. It's ******ed to suggest that anything but his bowl game performance vs. Notre Dame, which wasn't even a very good team, contributed heavily to any of FSU's bowl games.

Fortunately the EJ era is over here seemingly and he won't likely start for another NFL team except as a backup.

Now it's Pegula's turn to clean house.

[Buffalogic]

Believe it or not there are other possibilities. First of all let's not forget that Whaley was the Asst. GM and top personnel guy since 2010. Selective memory failure is no excuse for not pointing that out.

Second of all I wouldn't have allowed this team to get into that predicament to begin with so laying Whaley's failures and mess from 2010 thru 2012 at my feet isn't fair.

So let's start there. I was literally screaming at my friends for us to select Wilson when he was available in 2012! Problem solved!

Anything else?

My grass is greener. Your suggesting that i'm just as foolish and stupid as Whaley annoys me.

I also wouldn't have wasted a 1st round pick on Spiller, 3rd round picks on Graham or Goodwin, or a 2nd rounder on Aaron Williams. I sure as hell wouldn't have traded away next year's 1st and 4th for Watkins and would have taken Evans or Benjamin instead, whichever was available at 9th if I even felt that I needed a WR that badly instead of not keeping Stevie for another season.Ya, you'd do that if you wanted to be fired. Our team would be a lot worse off without Spiller, Watkins, and Williams and there's no way we would make the playoffs this year without them. Those guys are reliable starters in the NFL. That's what you are hoping to get in the draft. What would you like instead? Kiko Alonso's at every pick?

The bills have been bad because of the constant total whiffs in the draft like EJ, not the guys who are actually performing well at this level.

[Fletch]

Ya, you'd do that if you wanted to be fired. Our team would be a lot worse off without Spiller, Watkins, and Williams and there's no way we would make the playoffs this year without them. Those guys are reliable starters in the NFL. That's what you are hoping to get in the draft. What would you like instead? Kiko Alonso's at every pick?

The bills have been bad because of the constant total whiffs in the draft like EJ, not the guys who are actually performing well at this level.

Your statement makes little sense as did Jokeman's.

It's not as if you simply remove those players and have a 49 man roster. You would have drafted others.

My point was simple, if I were GM my eyes would always have the next three years in view, not simply the next season. It's an idiotic approach to wait until year five of a five-year contract with a QB (or any player), have him leave because you couldn't come to terms, and in the case of the Bills not getting something done in the offseason prior to the draft of that players last season, and then approach the following draft with your pants down because you didn't have the foresight to plan properly.

A good GM would draft players at positions which are rich in the draft because that's when you get good value. You don't do what we've often done and go for positions that are weak, like last year when we had to go for Manuel because we had no none and were forced into the pick, or Spiller in a relatively weak RB class as two primary examples.

I mean how come we had nothing at QB going into last year's draft (2013)? Poor planning is the only reason. Whaley was in charge, he's been the Asst. GM form '10 to '12 and the GM since then and the top personnel guy the entire time, blame him.

Perfect time to insert this point, but next year is supposed to be another rich year for QBs but we don't have a 1st round pick. One more bit of genius from Whaley. So once again we're screwed and have to make other plans regardless of who's running the show. All for what, Watkins who hasn't come close to living up to his status yet and can't even outperform a bunch of other rookies with comparable QB issues including Allen Hurns who wasn't even drafted and plays for Jacksonville.

[Meathead]

I skimmed it and hit the meaty parts.


watch it buster

[Meathead]

I'm getting a woody reading this article.

if it lasts more than four touchdown passes see your doctor

[Fletch]

LOL @ both.

[Forward_Lateral]

if it lasts more than four touchdown passes see your doctor

Doctor? F that I'm calling 4 midget hookers

[Meathead]

thats disgusting

four midget nun hookers, now yer talkin

[imbondz]

Orton is 4-0 against the Lions.

[trapezeus]

Orton is 4-0 against the Lions.

lots of people in our survivor pool are picking detroit. i hope O face orton comes through and hits 5-0

[Buffalogic]

It's not as if you simply remove those players and have a 49 man roster. You would have drafted others.
Which you are trading confirmed reliable starters in the NFL for total unknowns that you could get absolutely nothing out of. Yay let's throw away the starters we actually were lucky enough to find in the draft to add another possible chip to our bust pile. That's absurd.

I mean you are equipped with hindsight and you are still making terrible decisions in your own GM fantasy.

[The Jokeman]

Believe it or not there are other possibilities. First of all let's not forget that Whaley was the Asst. GM and top personnel guy since 2010. Selective memory failure is no excuse for not pointing that out.

Second of all I wouldn't have allowed this team to get into that predicament to begin with so laying Whaley's failures and mess from 2010 thru 2012 at my feet isn't fair.

So let's start there. I was literally screaming at my friends for us to select Wilson when he was available in 2012! Problem solved!

Anything else?

My grass is greener. Your suggesting that i'm just as foolish and stupid as Whaley annoys me.

I also wouldn't have wasted a 1st round pick on Spiller, 3rd round picks on Graham or Goodwin, or a 2nd rounder on Aaron Williams. I sure as hell wouldn't have traded away next year's 1st and 4th for Watkins and would have taken Evans or Benjamin instead, whichever was available at 9th if I even felt that I needed a WR that badly instead of not keeping Stevie for another season.

I can agree with a lot of what you said. Specifically on the Spiller, Goodwin and Williams pick. I agree to a degree on the Watkins pick as part of me hates losing the pick next year as felt we could use it to help fine tune our roster which I see holes in. Yet when consider that Watkins might be another elite/great one it might be worth it. Of course time will tell what we ultimately giving up and/or what the Browns gained.

[The Jokeman]

Your statement makes little sense as did Jokeman's.

It's not as if you simply remove those players and have a 49 man roster. You would have drafted others.

My point was simple, if I were GM my eyes would always have the next three years in view, not simply the next season. It's an idiotic approach to wait until year five of a five-year contract with a QB (or any player), have him leave because you couldn't come to terms, and in the case of the Bills not getting something done in the offseason prior to the draft of that players last season, and then approach the following draft with your pants down because you didn't have the foresight to plan properly.

A good GM would draft players at positions which are rich in the draft because that's when you get good value. You don't do what we've often done and go for positions that are weak, like last year when we had to go for Manuel because we had no none and were forced into the pick, or Spiller in a relatively weak RB class as two primary examples.

I mean how come we had nothing at QB going into last year's draft (2013)? Poor planning is the only reason. Whaley was in charge, he's been the Asst. GM form '10 to '12 and the GM since then and the top personnel guy the entire time, blame him.

Perfect time to insert this point, but next year is supposed to be another rich year for QBs but we don't have a 1st round pick. One more bit of genius from Whaley. So once again we're screwed and have to make other plans regardless of who's running the show. All for what, Watkins who hasn't come close to living up to his status yet and can't even outperform a bunch of other rookies with comparable QB issues including Allen Hurns who wasn't even drafted and plays for Jacksonville.
I'm all about value drafting. It's been one of the things I've been talking about for years on this board. Case in point the year we took Spiller. For most of that offseason I really felt we should take Bryan Bulaga as felt it filled a need and wasn't worth passing on. Then a few days before the draft I refocused and did some other evaluation and came up with a post in which I debated Spiller vs Dez Bryant as at that time it looked like more and more Spiller was going to be our pick. I felt Bryant fit an emerging need at WR (as prior to this draft Stevie was an unknown). I'm far from perfect as admit I didn't think Wilson would amount to much but I still think you put Wilson in Buffalo he doesn't have the same record.

[better days]

I'm all about value drafting. It's been one of the things I've been talking about for years on this board. Case in point the year we took Spiller. For most of that offseason I really felt we should take Bryan Bulaga as felt it filled a need and wasn't worth passing on. Then a few days before the draft I refocused and did some other evaluation and came up with a post in which I debated Spiller vs Dez Bryant as at that time it looked like more and more Spiller was going to be our pick. I felt Bryant fit an emerging need at WR (as prior to this draft Stevie was an unknown). I'm far from perfect as admit I didn't think Wilson would amount to much but I still think you put Wilson in Buffalo he doesn't have the same record.

I really wanted Wilson & he would have been a GREAT pick for the Bills.

Dez Bryant would not have the stats for the Bills that he has with Dallas.

Bryan Balaga would be the same injury prone mediocre player he is no matter who drafted him.