Is Manuel Already a Bust? (Week 5)

[Fletch]

Just curious at this point how many if any have changed their minds.

In your opinion, is Manuel a bust as a 1st-rounder/16th overall draft pick at this point?

Or do you think he'll come back to become a viable NFL starter at this point?

From ProFootballTalk today:


Manuel was told that history is not on his side: Since 2007, eight first-round quarterbacks have been benched. None came back to become their team’s permanent starters again, and those who have had a chance to start because of injuries (like Manuel’s predecessor at Florida State, Christian Ponder (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/6433/christian-ponder), last night) have not done well.
“Well maybe I can be the first,” Manuel said, “Who knows. We’ll see.”


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/03/ej-manuel-i-still-believe-im-a-good-football-player/

[BuffaloRedleg]

Please define bust otherwise we are just spinning our wheels here.

[Meathead]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Cleavage_of_a_woman.jpg

[Meathead]

... or for lecter

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rj7tV--vyNg/UnCCC7xdviI/AAAAAAAAKpk/Ky1nLiWBT4g/s1600/Hillary-s-Cleavage-30971.jpg

[bdutton]

I was pessimistic about the pick but cautiously optimistic that the GM/Coaches knew what they were getting.

Geno Smith was my first pick and was disappointed that we didn't get him at the time. Now, that also is looking like a bust.

There are many more busts than hits with QB's in the first round.

[elltrain22]

I said yes b/c he's flaws seem very tough to fix. First, he's wildly inaccurate with his passes. He might relax a bit and have a bit more success with shorter passes, but his longer passes are way off target most of time, and I don't see that changing. I also don't think he'll ever see the field well. He doesn't allow plays to develop b/c he's worried about getting hit or worried about delivering a perfect ball. Most of the time, he looks like he throws to the very first open guy he sees, and since he usually rushes all his throws, the throws usually then tend to be over/under thrown.

[better days]

If EJ becomes Kyle Orton like, a very good back up, .500 QB, then I don't think he will be a bust.

[BuffaloRedleg]

If EJ becomes Kyle Orton like, a very good back up, .500 QB, then I don't think he will be a bust.

When you draft a guy where we did, that is considered a bust. Bust to me is a product of draft position and quality of play. It is not necessarily just what his capabilities are, you have to factor in draft position.

A 3rd rounder (which is where he should have been drafted) who becomes a good back up is not a bust, because of his draft position. He is more or less just a pick we didn't hit on, but still got something okay in return. A 1st rounder is, because he was drafted with the expectation of being a starting QB.

That is not EJs fault really, I mean he shouldn't have been drafted that high. If he were a 3rd rounder we'd be going about this conversation much differently.

People keep throwing around the concept of a draft bust like it has a flexible meaning, but I don't think it does. You have to allow a reasonable amount of time for the player to grow and show signs of development before you can call him a bust. The Bills did, and here we are at the end of the line with him. Calling him a bust in July is just plain ole' intellectually dishonest. You might be sure that he will be a bust, which is fine and we all had a feeling he would be. But to stretch the definition and start calling people busts in their rookie training camps etc is just silly.

[trapezeus]

official bust status for me is 3 years of not living up to expectations. we know enough that he probably won't get it....but it's not totally out of the question.

I wouldn't say he's a bust as of yet, but he's definitely trending that way.

[better days]

When you draft a guy where we did, that is considered a bust. Bust to me is a product of draft position and quality of play. It is not necessarily just what his capabilities are, you have to factor in draft position.

A 3rd rounder (which is where he should have been drafted) who becomes a good back up is not a bust, because of his draft position. He is more or less just a pick we didn't hit on, but still got something okay in return. A 1st rounder is, because he was drafted with the expectation of being a starting QB.

That is not EJs fault really, I mean he shouldn't have been drafted that high. If he were a 3rd rounder we'd be going about this conversation much differently.

People keep throwing around the concept of a draft bust like it has a flexible meaning, but I don't think it does. You have to allow a reasonable amount of time for the player to grow and show signs of development before you can call him a bust. The Bills did, and here we are at the end of the line with him. Calling him a bust in July is just plain ole' intellectually dishonest. You might be sure that he will be a bust, which is fine and we all had a feeling he would be. But to stretch the definition and start calling people busts in their rookie training camps etc is just silly.

I think a GOOD back up QB has mid first rnd value. QB is a very difficult position & there are not all that many GOOD back up QB's in the NFL.

IMO, a bust is someone like Maybin or Mike Williams first rnd picks that had NO VALUE.

[BillsOverDolphins]

I think a GOOD back up QB has mid first rnd value. QB is a very difficult position & there are not all that many GOOD back up QB's in the NFL.

IMO, a bust is someone like Maybin or Mike Williams first rnd picks that had NO VALUE.

On what planet is wasting a first-round pick on a clipboard holder considered VALUE? Do you seriously read some of the **** you post sometimes?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I said it after the Houston game: I'm not ready to give up on him, but he needed a benching. Learning on the field wasn't going to happen fast enough to avoid squandering our chance at a playoff berth. If we were, say, the Raiders sitting at 0-4 and looking up at two divisional powerhouses than I would say we should play him all year. But right now this division and conference are totally weak and we can be that surprise team. So I want a veteran hand for now.

[sudzy]

Yes, EJ is a bust. But, it's not his fault. He was a forth rounder that found someone stupid enough to draft him in the first. Maybe we should call Nix/Whaley bust also.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

You forgot to ask if married fans of EJ have stopped beating their wives.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Seriously though. I forget which analyst it was who said it, IIRC he was on NFL Network, but an analyst said I disagree with the choice but not the decision to get the guy who you think is going to be your franchise's qb. I personally felt the 2013 draft was a very weak one as far as qbs, but we did need a qb. I hoped that he would pan out, but I was not really expecting too much out of him, so I can't call him a bust. I can call him a wasted pick but not a bust.

[Novacane]

Probably but he'll get another chance to prove he's not.

[YardRat]

Too early to be declared a bust. Check back in another season and a half.

While we're at it, can we give a rest to these stupid ass threads until then also?

[Novacane]

Too early to be declared a bust. Check back in another season and a half.

While we're at it, can we give a rest to these stupid ass threads until then also?


Nope. Fletch won't be able to resist bashing EJ even while he rides the pine.

[better days]

On what planet is wasting a first-round pick on a clipboard holder considered VALUE? Do you seriously read some of the **** you post sometimes?

MANY MANY times that clipboard holder has to START games because the starter is injured or SUCKS.

It is clear you know NOTHING about football.

[sudzy]

Too early to be declared a bust. Check back in another season and a half.


How long do we have to leave the candle burning for EJ? He's done, let's move on. Time to look for the next QB of the future and this time I hope they don't reach for another 4th rounder in the 1st.

[sudzy]

MANY MANY times that clipboard holder has to START games because the starter is injured or SUCKS.

It is clear you know NOTHING about football.

A 1st rounder for a back-up QB is not a bust? Because he hold some value still? I guess he was a hell of a pick for 16th overall. That's like saying that because Maybin played some on Special Teams he wasn't a bust. And you say someone doesn't no about football? Say hi to the kettle for me Mr. Pot.

[better days]

A 1st rounder for a back-up QB is not a bust? Because he hold some value still? I guess he was a hell of a pick for 16th overall. That's like saying that because Maybin played some on Special Teams he wasn't a bust. And you say someone doesn't no about football? Say hi to the kettle for me Mr. Pot.

A GOOD back up QB can rescue a good teams season & get it to the playoffs, such as when Kurt Warner took over for Matt Leinart & took the Cardnals to the Super Bowl.

Or Frank Reich taking over for an injured Jim Kelly to defeat the Oilers.

A GOOD back up QB has VALUE.

If EJ becomes nothing more than a GOOD back up, he would not have been a great pick at #16, but certainly not a huge bust either.