Ralph Wilson’s gift to Buffalo

[Dr. Lecter]

Metro Buffalo can expect a new charitable windfall worth hundreds of millions of dollars thanks to the generosity of Ralph C. Wilson Jr., the late founder of the Buffalo Bills.

Wilson’s estate recently agreed to sell the Bills to Terry and Kim Pegula for $1.4 billion, and an informed source told The Buffalo News on Friday that a large portion of that money will go to the Ralph C. Wilson Foundation.

What’s more, the source said that Wilson instructed that the money be spent only in Detroit – his hometown – and Buffalo.

The source also told The News the foundation will be aggressive in supporting charitable causes in Buffalo and that its endowment will dwarf that of the Buffalo-based John R. Oishei Foundation, which describes itself as the area’s largest private foundation, with more than $300 million in assets.

“This just seals Ralph Wilson’s legacy as just a great benefactor for Buffalo and Western New York,” said Rep. Brian Higgins, a Buffalo Democrat who said he received word of Wilson’s latest and largest gift to Buffalo a few days ago. “This is huge.”

Sen. Charles E. Schumer, D-N.Y., said: “This leaves me breathless, and all that can be said, from the bottom of our hearts, is: Thank you, Ralph.”

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/ralph-wilsons-gift-to-buffalo-20141003

But, but, but Ralph is a greedy bastard who does not care about Buffalo

[Generalissimus Gibby]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/ralph-wilsons-gift-to-buffalo-20141003

But, but, but Ralph is a greedy bastard who does not care about Buffalo

Obviously this is only a ploy to protect his legacy

[Luisito23]

Gotta love Mr. Wilson.

[BertSquirtgum]

Yay Ralph

[WagonCircler]

I had issues with the way Ralph ran the team, but it was personality clashes and his tendency to surround himself with cronies and yes-men that drove me crazy.

But there have been dozens and dozens of stories over the years about Ralph's personal generosity.

This is a fantastic thing. That it "dwarfs the O'Shei Foundation" is really saying something.

[jimmifli]

Ralph was a millionaire that owned a billion dollar asset with no liquidity. He wasn't cheap out of spite, he just didn't have the resources to compete in the modern NFL. That doesn't make him a bad guy or uncaring, it's just the truth. The consequence was that the Bills suffered a lower probability of fielding a winning team during since the last two CBAs. As a fan I would have been better off had he sold the team a decade ago, but in the end he is still an amazingly positive force in WNY history.

[Downinfloflo]

Could he have taken the money with him?

[GvilleBills]

Rip Ralph

[Night Train]

He had the football acumen of my cat but as a human being, it was well known he was top shelf. I met him at a country club in Florida some 20 years back and he talked my ear off. Heart of gold.

[YardRat]

Ralph was a millionaire that owned a billion dollar asset with no liquidity. He wasn't cheap out of spite, he just didn't have the resources to compete in the modern NFL. That doesn't make him a bad guy or uncaring, it's just the truth. The consequence was that the Bills suffered a lower probability of fielding a winning team during since the last two CBAs. As a fan I would have been better off had he sold the team a decade ago, but in the end he is still an amazingly positive force in WNY history.

Ralph wanted to pass as owner of the Buffalo Bills. I'm OK with that, it's more than a fair trade-off of 'take' for what he 'gave'.

[justasportsfan]

Ralph is cheap ..... But he had a plan

[YardRat]

He had the football acumen of my cat but as a human being, it was well known he was top shelf. I met him at a country club in Florida some 20 years back and he talked my ear off. Heart of gold.

He forgot more about football and the NFL than probably 90% of the current owners ever knew, collectively. As a matter of fact, that was proven when the previous CBA was passed.

[HAMMER]

What a man, the NFL has lost some legends in the last few years.

[OpIv37]

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/ralph-wilsons-gift-to-buffalo-20141003

But, but, but Ralph is a greedy bastard who does not care about Buffalo

I don't remember anyone calling him greedy. Cheap, yes, but not greedy.

[OpIv37]

He forgot more about football and the NFL than probably 90% of the current owners ever knew, collectively. As a matter of fact, that was proven when the previous CBA was passed.

He did not know anything about football. He knew about running a business and making money. The results on the field prove that.

And he didn't vote against the CBA because he was some kind of genius. in his own words, he "didn't understand it." I don't know why people insist on giving him credit for being confused. And even if you insist on giving him credit for it, once again, a CBA is an employer/employee agreement. It's business and not football.

[Dr. Lecter]

He did not know anything about football. He knew about running a business and making money. The results on the field prove that.

And he didn't vote against the CBA because he was some kind of genius. in his own words, he "didn't understand it." I don't know why people insist on giving him credit for being confused. And even if you insist on giving him credit for it, once again, a CBA is an employer/employee agreement. It's business and not football.
Actually what he said was that there was not enough time for everybody to read it, so nobody really understood it.

He was not confused. He was one of the two owners who did not let it be rushed through. Once he had time to read it, he said it sucked.

There is a difference and a pretty damn big one. It's been explained numerous times too

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't remember anyone calling him greedy. Cheap, yes, but not greedy.

Are you new to this board?

[OpIv37]

Actually what he said was that there was not enough time for everybody to read it, so nobody really understood it.

He was not confused. He was one of the two owners who did not let it be rushed through. Once he had time to read it, he said it sucked.

There is a difference and a pretty damn big one. It's been explained numerous times too

So, your insinuation is that 30 billionaires signed a document they didn't understand that governs how they were going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars of their own money?

I have a hard time believing that. People who make decisions like that are too dumb to become billionaires in the first place.

But again, even if you are right, YR used it as an example of Ralph's football knowledge when it's a business decision that has nothing to do with the actual game of football.

[Bill Cody]

well done Ralph

[Buffalogic]

Ralphy!

[MikeInRoch]

So, your insinuation is that 30 billionaires signed a document they didn't understand that governs how they were going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars of their own money?

As I recall, a few owners after the fact said exactly that.

[YardRat]

He did not know anything about football. He knew about running a business and making money. The results on the field prove that.

And he didn't vote against the CBA because he was some kind of genius. in his own words, he "didn't understand it." I don't know why people insist on giving him credit for being confused. And even if you insist on giving him credit for it, once again, a CBA is an employer/employee agreement. It's business and not football.

Quit being obtuse. He may not have been a down-in-the-dirt X's and O's guy, but then again what owners are? My statement stands.

[OpIv37]

Quit being obtuse. He may not have been a down-in-the-dirt X's and O's guy, but then again what owners are? My statement stands.
Despite having 0 evidence in your favor, and Ralph's consistent bad hiring decisions and poor results on the field working against you, your statement stands. Got it.

[YardRat]

So, your insinuation is that 30 billionaires signed a document they didn't understand that governs how they were going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars of their own money?

I have a hard time believing that. People who make decisions like that are too dumb to become billionaires in the first place.

But again, even if you are right, YR used it as an example of Ralph's football knowledge when it's a business decision that has nothing to do with the actual game of football.

They bagged out at the first opportunity after they did read it and understand it. What does that tell you? Quit hanging on to your RW demons under the bed. What's next? How long after things settle down until you pull out the 'Well, Ralph didn't really have a plan or care about the fans because he didn't come right and tell me' horse****?

Here... http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/forum/6-ravens-talk/

...we would probably all enjoy the break.

[YardRat]

Go find somebody else's grave to piss on. Your schtick in the main forum is as old as Shiva's in the Spin Zone.

[OpIv37]

Go find somebody else's grave to piss on. Your schtick in the main forum is as old as Shiva's in the Spin Zone.

It's no schtick. The Ralph love-fest is nauseating.

Ralph gave us a team. He contributed a lot to charity.

He also mismanaged this team into the league's running joke while getting even richer off of the very fans he tormented, namely, us. News flash: plenty of sports franchise owners brought a team to a city and contributed to charity. They also managed to avoid 15 years of abject failure and, you know, occasionally win.

[YardRat]

It's no schtick. The Ralph love-fest is nauseating.

Ralph gave us a team. He contributed a lot to charity.

He also mismanaged this team into the league's running joke while getting even richer off of the very fans he tormented, namely, us. News flash: plenty of sports franchise owners brought a team to a city and contributed to charity. They also managed to avoid 15 years of abject failure and, you know, occasionally win.

You need to quit being a sniveling little spoiled brat and appreciate what you have, why you have it, and who gave it to you. Otherwise, move along.

[BillsImpossible]

It's no schtick. The Ralph love-fest is nauseating.

Ralph gave us a team. He contributed a lot to charity.

He also mismanaged this team into the league's running joke while getting even richer off of the very fans he tormented, namely, us. News flash: plenty of sports franchise owners brought a team to a city and contributed to charity. They also managed to avoid 15 years of abject failure and, you know, occasionally win.

Did your dog piss in your cheerios this morning?

4 straight Super Bowls, a decade long run of winning, the greatest comeback ever, and 10 Buffalo Bills in the Hall of Fame - not including Ralph.

Go to Cleveland and listen to what Browns fans have to say about their team. They have nothing.

At least we have some glory days to look back upon that will last forever in our memories.

Ralph held on to his baby just long enough.

Terry Pegula could not afford to buy the Buffalo Bills 10 years ago.

Thank you, RCW for making the Bills forever in Buffalo.

[better days]

It's no schtick. The Ralph love-fest is nauseating.

Ralph gave us a team. He contributed a lot to charity.

He also mismanaged this team into the league's running joke while getting even richer off of the very fans he tormented, namely, us. News flash: plenty of sports franchise owners brought a team to a city and contributed to charity. They also managed to avoid 15 years of abject failure and, you know, occasionally win.

Many sports franchise owners brought a team to a City & then MOVED that team to a different City.

What did the Oilers/Titans ever win? Or the LA team that used to be the BUFFALO BRAVES?

[Michael82]

Thank you Ralph Wilson for keeping the Buffalo Bills in Buffalo from 1960 until you passed,even though you probably had many opportunities to move the team. Thank you Ralph Wilson for having a plan all along to keep the team here long term with the new lease and your trust. Thank you Ralph for all the money you have given to the city of Buffalo and plan to give to Buffalo. Thank you Mary Wilson for making sure his wishes were followed.

[Michael82]

Many sports franchise owners brought a team to a City & then MOVED that team to a different City.

What did the Oilers/Titans ever win? Or the LA team that used to be the BUFFALO BRAVES?

Ralph was also one of the biggest opponents against all teams that moved. He voted against all of them.

[Mace]

I don't remember anyone calling him greedy. Cheap, yes, but not greedy.

Haha, the old, "I'll say something, people will doubt their own memory, and will be too lazy to search for it" trick. Have used it many times myself.

Greed being :


greed

ɡrēd/
noun
noun: greed
intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food.


So, while searching the archives for future material (always good to be prepared to haunt people, I expect nothing less in return), I notice many people have graduated with a BS from the University of Wrong regarding Wilson, his succession plan or lack of it, the sale, his cheap, his greedy, intentions on any or all, yada yada.

University of Wrong evidently didn't offer honors as well in their Ralph Wilson Program, with *** Laude, Magna *** Laude, and Summa *** Laude, but I'm thinking maybe 10 wrongs is Summa, 6-9 Magna, 1-5 simple, *** being the latin word for "with".

[better days]

Ralph was also one of the biggest opponents against all teams that moved. He voted against all of them.

Probably why Bud Adams gave Ralph the finger at the HOF game the Bills & Titans played in.

[Meathead]

ralph is generous

[Historian]

Ralph and Mary built the Hospice Center in Cheektowaga, the one my Mom died in.

They left out no detail. The place is a slice of heaven for those who are suffering,as well as their families.

I really wish he could have won the SB just once.

He deserved it.

[Fletch]

he just didn't have the resources to compete in the modern NFL.

If you're referring to the product on the field then that's nonsense.

If you're talking about new stadiums and such then yes, I'd agree.

Cincy is a small market team that competes just fine. They seem to be held back by Lewis at times like we were held back by Levy at key times, like routinely getting outcoached in Super Bowls.

[Fletch]

He did not know anything about football. He knew about running a business and making money. The results on the field prove that.

And he didn't vote against the CBA because he was some kind of genius. in his own words, he "didn't understand it." I don't know why people insist on giving him credit for being confused. And even if you insist on giving him credit for it, once again, a CBA is an employer/employee agreement. It's business and not football.

Furthermore it's not like this was anything but a business flyer for him. $25K is what he paid. Homes cost more at the time. It's the modern day equivalent of a wealthy business owner dropping a million bucks on something with enormous upside.

Ralph was a standup guy and forever will be the patriarch of the Buffalo Bills and his name is deservedly on The Wall. By everyone's account he was a decent human being.

This is Ralph's season for remembrance, but it will be good to get the Pegula era running though.

[Fletch]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by OpIv37 http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=4001950#post4001950)

I don't remember anyone calling him greedy. Cheap, yes, but not greedy.



Are you new to this board?

I've never heard anyone refer to Ralph as greedy either. Not saying it hasn't happened, just saying I've never read that here.

I've been as critical of him as anyone and I don't think he was greedy. I think he's done a number of things in his own interests that many viewed as being primarily in the interests of others or other things, but that's not the same as being greedy.

[Meathead]

well a persons status always raises after they die. well maybe not vicious criminals but for the rest of us regular folks (no offense stratton) ppl like to believe the departed were much more admirable in life once they are gone

but thats not why im gonna praise ralph here. hes was probably the perfect owner for the bills. he made some mistakes but overall he did a very good job. he was constrained by the local economy and a much less lucrative revenue stream than most teams, so he had to be frugal at times. but when he saw an opportunity to compete he didnt hesitate to spend

even before this incredible gift to buffalo (and detoilet) he was already making a difference in wny. ive never been to the hospice center that dave mentioned but it sounds great and there are many other examples of his generosity. this ralph wilson foundation just cements that reality

heres hoping terry can follow in ralphs footsteps. except of course when it comes to winning the big one

[Fletch]

I really wish he could have won the SB just once.

He deserved it.

Agreed

[YardRat]

Furthermore it's not like this was anything but a business flyer for him. $25K is what he paid. Homes cost more at the time. It's the modern day equivalent of a wealthy business owner dropping a million bucks on something with enormous upside.

Ralph was a standup guy and forever will be the patriarch of the Buffalo Bills and his name is deservedly on The Wall. By everyone's account he was a decent human being.

This is Ralph's season for remembrance, but it will be good to get the Pegula era running though.

The average cost of a new home in 1960 was actually about half of his investment.

[OpIv37]

You need to quit being a sniveling little spoiled brat and appreciate what you have, why you have it, and who gave it to you. Otherwise, move along.

You need to have standards and lose the "eh, good enough" mentality. And Ralph turned a $25,000 investment into $1.4 BILLION, plus all the profits he made over the years, so you need to quit this altruistic benefactor crap. He didn't do it solely out of the benefit of his heart.

Let's face it- many other sports team owners are/were far superior to Ralph. He's not this great hero that some of you are making him out to be. Lots of people have done what he has and most have done a better job of it.

[YardRat]

You need to have standards and lose the "eh, good enough" mentality.

Loyalty, and dedication, and passion are pretty high standards. I'll take those and keep my team in it's hometown, thank you very much. If that's not good enough for you, piss off and find another team to root for. Wilson and the Buffalo Bills organization owe you absolutely nothing, not even the opportunity to root for a team to win a championship, and yet that is exactly what has been given you, even though you are an ungrateful little *****. A spoiled brat.


And Ralph turned a $25,000 investment into $1.4 BILLION, plus all the profits he made over the years, so you need to quit this altruistic benefactor crap. He didn't do it solely out of the benefit of his heart.

Quit being a dumbass. Ralph never saw one thin dime of the sale of the team you stupid ****, and apparently if reports are true the majority of that money is going into the foundation, so his family won't see it either. The communities of Detroit and Buffalo, will, however. Would you trade off the hospice that Dave refers to in exchange for a Super Bowl ring? Yeah, you probably would, because you're a selfish dick.

As far as the alleged profits that he pocketed, throw out some legit number or STFU. You have no clue what, if any, money in RW's bank account came from the team. What was that you said earleir? 'Despite 0 proof'?


Let's face it- many other sports team owners are/were far superior to Ralph. He's not this great hero that some of you are making him out to be. Lots of people have done what he has and most have done a better job of it.

Who and Why? Let's hear some examples.

Finally, yeah, he was, and apparently that sentiment was felt pretty league-wide.

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/end-of-an-era-the-wilson-saga-ends-today-with-a-game-in-his-hometown-of-detroit-20141004

Read it and weep, *******. You'll take that literally if you're any kind of fan at all.

[WagonCircler]

You need to have standards and lose the "eh, good enough" mentality. And Ralph turned a $25,000 investment into $1.4 BILLION, plus all the profits he made over the years, so you need to quit this altruistic benefactor crap. He didn't do it solely out of the benefit of his heart.

Let's face it- many other sports team owners are/were far superior to Ralph. He's not this great hero that some of you are making him out to be. Lots of people have done what he has and most have done a better job of it.

Granted, he wasn't the best owner. But that doesn't lessen this gesture one bit.

I'd be amazed if any of the "better owners" to whom you're referring would, given the opportunity, choose to donate the lion's share of a $1.4 BIL windfall to charity.

Name me one who has.

[Dr. Lecter]

You need to have standards and lose the "eh, good enough" mentality. And Ralph turned a $25,000 investment into $1.4 BILLION, plus all the profits he made over the years, so you need to quit this altruistic benefactor crap. He didn't do it solely out of the benefit of his heart.

Let's face it- many other sports team owners are/were far superior to Ralph. He's not this great hero that some of you are making him out to be. Lots of people have done what he has and most have done a better job of it.

He didn't?

And you base that on what?

[Dr. Lecter]

As I recall, a few owners after the fact said exactly that.

Don't confuse him with the facts

[Dr. Lecter]

It's no schtick. The Ralph love-fest is nauseating.



Your blind, unlimited hatred for the man is not?

Criticize him for what he deserves

To slight his charitable contributions or to make up what happened with the CBA is absurd.

[YardRat]

http://theocddiaries.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/crying-baby1-300x199.jpg

[OpIv37]

Your blind, unlimited hatred for the man is not?

Criticize him for what he deserves

To slight his charitable contributions or to make up what happened with the CBA is absurd.

He ran this team into the ground. No matter what good he did, I will not forget it. And neither should any of you because we are still dealing with the results of his **** management to this day, and will be at least until Russ Brandon is no longer affiliated with the team.

[pmoon6]

He didn't?

And you base that on what?Leave Opie alone. He's just pissed off because he hasn't got to rub his pathetic pecker on the TV screen after the Bills' win the Super Bowl, yet.

Therefore, any thing that Wilson ever did is treated with disdain.

We all know the myriad of mistakes Ralph made during his 53 years of ownership, but this isn't one of them.

[pmoon6]

http://theocddiaries.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/crying-baby1-300x199.jpgThis should follow every one of Opie's post until he finally returns to Mayberry where they don't have Internet.

[YardRat]

lol...'ran this team into the ground' must translate to 'staying put at the highest selling price ever' in Whinerville lingo.

[Dr. Lecter]

He ran this team into the ground. No matter what good he did, I will not forget it. And neither should any of you because we are still dealing with the results of his **** management to this day, and will be at least until Russ Brandon is no longer affiliated with the team.
Well, that is not what I said

You are like Uppy or Patti talking about Obama right now.

Facts don't matter. Nothing matters except your mission.

Don't be Uppy

[pmoon6]

Well, that is not what I said

You are like Uppy or Patti talking about Obama right now.

Facts don't matter. Nothing matters except your mission.

Don't be UppyPersonally, he reminds me of "creepy" Rob Lowe.

[OpIv37]

Well, that is not what I said

You are like Uppy or Patti talking about Obama right now.

Facts don't matter. Nothing matters except your mission.

Don't be Uppy
Huh? Point is, the goal of football teams is to win and Ralph consistently failed to do that. That is a fact.

[Mace]

Personally, he reminds me of "creepy" Rob Lowe.

One of my favorite commercials.

[Dr. Lecter]

Huh? Point is, the goal of football teams is to win and Ralph consistently failed to do that. That is a fact.
Yeah. I didn't say that.

What I am saying is you making the proven false claims about the CBA and knocking his charity work sound like Uppy and Patti talking about Obama

You can't acknowledge when he was right

[pmoon6]

Yeah. I didn't say that.

What I am saying is you making the proven false claims about the CBA and knocking his charity work sound like Uppy and Patti talking about Obama

You can't acknowledge when he was rightI wonder how the crybaby feels now?

He whimpered all game and we pull out a win.

*****es gonna *****.

He probably is unhappy that the team didn't win by 30.

[Historian]

OP I think one of the reasons that Ralph is being deified around here, is because he has shown commitment to this area, where others have took the money and run. John Y Brown, who sold the Braves down the river, comes to mind.

Forget football/sports for a moment.

You live in a place of enormous wealth and influence. Buffalo could not be more diametrically opposed to the Potomac region.

We don't have much here. Jobs are scarce, winters are brutal, and we've lost an entire generation of talent. (Guys and gals just like you, who should be here, helping to solve our problems)

Ralph understood this. He understood that his team was the area's only link to the "big time". It helped keep Buffalo on the map.

I think that's why it means so much.... to all of us.

Was Ralph a good owner? Meh. The team isn't even .500 for it's history. He's even in the HOF as a League Builder, if that's any indication.

But his life's work here is more than just Wins and Losses. He was one of the last of a dying breed of businessmen, who saw more than dollar signs as a result of their efforts. He put people first. And his work included school endowments, contributions to little leagues, the Hall of Fame wing, and in my case, the building of a hospice center.

I wish there were more like him, guys whose word was their bond, because most of the businesspeople I meet today just assume let you rot if it means they can squeeze out an extra buck. That's bad for entire nation, as well as Buffalo.

Ralph wasn't perfect, but I don't think he ever purported to be.

He was a fan.

And sometimes his decisions showed it.

But looking back over the last 50-odd years, I don't think you can ever question the guy's commitment to the area, or to his own character.

I hope somebody has the decency to put a statue of him up inside the stadium.

Peace.

[Meathead]

btw, i suspect pegula deserves some of the credit here too. would it really surprise anyone if the pegulas knew in advance that most of the proceeds would go to bflo/det charities and thats why they so easily agreed to the record number? top bid was like 1.1b and it still ended up 1.4b so basically they just reached into their change purse, pulled out 300m, and said here ya go

[YardRat]

OP I think one of the reasons that Ralph is being deified around here, is because he has shown commitment to this area, where others have took the money and run. John Y Brown, who sold the Braves down the river, comes to mind.

Forget football/sports for a moment.

You live in a place of enormous wealth and influence. Buffalo could not be more diametrically opposed to the Potomac region.

We don't have much here. Jobs are scarce, winters are brutal, and we've lost an entire generation of talent. (Guys and gals just like you, who should be here, helping to solve our problems)

Ralph understood this. He understood that his team was the area's only link to the "big time". It helped keep Buffalo on the map.

I think that's why it means so much.... to all of us.

Was Ralph a good owner? Meh. The team isn't even .500 for it's history. He's even in the HOF as a League Builder, if that's any indication.

But his life's work here is more than just Wins and Losses. He was one of the last of a dying breed of businessmen, who saw more than dollar signs as a result of their efforts. He put people first. And his work included school endowments, contributions to little leagues, the Hall of Fame wing, and in my case, the building of a hospice center.

I wish there were more like him, guys whose word was their bond, because most of the businesspeople I meet today just assume let you rot if it means they can squeeze out an extra buck. That's bad for entire nation, as well as Buffalo.

Ralph wasn't perfect, but I don't think he ever purported to be.

He was a fan.

And sometimes his decisions showed it.

But looking back over the last 50-odd years, I don't think you can ever question the guy's commitment to the area, or to his own character.

I hope somebody has the decency to put a statue of him up inside the stadium.

Peace.

A-****ing-men.

[WagonCircler]

Honestly, when you look back at this, it's astonishing.

The team stays, with a new, local, committed class act of an owner, who ponied up HUGE money because he knew that most of it was going to go charity, thanks to our old, committed class act of an owner.

This gesture by Ralph dwarfs any criticism about the way he ran the team. This is truly putting your money where your mouth is.

Everybody wins.

Amazing.

[OpIv37]

L
OP I think one of the reasons that Ralph is being deified around here, is because he has shown commitment to this area, where others have took the money and run. John Y Brown, who sold the Braves down the river, comes to mind.

Forget football/sports for a moment.

You live in a place of enormous wealth and influence. Buffalo could not be more diametrically opposed to the Potomac region.

We don't have much here. Jobs are scarce, winters are brutal, and we've lost an entire generation of talent. (Guys and gals just like you, who should be here, helping to solve our problems)

Ralph understood this. He understood that his team was the area's only link to the "big time". It helped keep Buffalo on the map.

I think that's why it means so much.... to all of us.

Was Ralph a good owner? Meh. The team isn't even .500 for it's history. He's even in the HOF as a League Builder, if that's any indication.

But his life's work here is more than just Wins and Losses. He was one of the last of a dying breed of businessmen, who saw more than dollar signs as a result of their efforts. He put people first. And his work included school endowments, contributions to little leagues, the Hall of Fame wing, and in my case, the building of a hospice center.

I wish there were more like him, guys whose word was their bond, because most of the businesspeople I meet today just assume let you rot if it means they can squeeze out an extra buck. That's bad for entire nation, as well as Buffalo.

Ralph wasn't perfect, but I don't think he ever purported to be.

He was a fan.

And sometimes his decisions showed it.

But looking back over the last 50-odd years, I don't think you can ever question the guy's commitment to the area, or to his own character.

I hope somebody has the decency to put a statue of him up inside the stadium.

Peace.
Well, first of all, I live in Baltimore city now. If I go north, I'm in Towson, which has affluence, but the city itself is poor. I work in eastern Baltimore County, which has suffered from the decline of the ports and many factories closing down. It's just as rust belt as Buffalo, with milder winters but brutal summers.

And maybe Ralph was a good guy, but so were a lot of people who failed at football. Remember my initial comment: good riddance to an era of terrible football. And it was. Like you said, Ralph is in the Hall as a "league builder," not even as an owner. He was never successful on the field yet he still got rich off of the people who were the most disappointed by his failures.

Yeah. He gave us a team. Yeah. He donated money to good causes when he didn't have to. But we have had to endure a lot of bad football on his behalf, and he departed this world with his team in the midst of the longest active playoff drought in the NFL. This forum isn't about business acumen or charitable donations. It's about Bills football, and that's where Ralph failed the most.

[Meathead]

ralph is legendary

[OpIv37]

ralph is legendary

Not in terms of football success

[pmoon6]

L
Well, first of all, I live in Baltimore city now. If I go north, I'm in Towson, which has affluence, but the city itself is poor. I work in eastern Baltimore County, which has suffered from the decline of the ports and many factories closing down. It's just as rust belt as Buffalo, with milder winters but brutal summers.

And maybe Ralph was a good guy, but so were a lot of people who failed at football. Remember my initial comment: good riddance to an era of terrible football. And it was. Like you said, Ralph is in the Hall as a "league builder," not even as an owner. He was never successful on the field yet he still got rich off of the people who were the most disappointed by his failures.

Yeah. He gave us a team. Yeah. He donated money to good causes when he didn't have to. But we have had to endure a lot of bad football on his behalf, and he departed this world with his team in the midst of the longest active playoff drought in the NFL. This forum isn't about business acumen or charitable donations. It's about Bills football, and that's where Ralph failed the most.Hmmm. I wonder if you can point that highly critical mind at yourself.

Tell us what you see.

I can tell you what I see, but you might cry.

[OpIv37]

K
Hmmm. I wonder if you can point that highly critical mind at yourself.

Tell us what you see.

I can tell you what I see, but you might cry.

Say whatever you want about me- it has nothing to do with Ralph failing.

We are not talking about me because no one is trying to make me seem like a hero. People are trying to make Ralph seem like one despite being a failure on the football field.

[pmoon6]

K

Say whatever you want about me- it has nothing to do with Ralph failing.

We are not talking about me because no one is trying to make me seem like a hero. People are trying to make Ralph seem like one despite being a failure on the football field.Yeah, I remember Ralph trying to give an OT a forearm shiver back in the day and completely wiffing. He was in negative numbers for career sacks.

BTW, your little hissy concerning Wilson just shows what kind of person you really are.

Typical New Age American. Whiney, needs someone to blame, poor me, Ralph didn't put a team on the field to win you a Super Bowl.

Oh, the injustice for the poor whittle narcissist. It's all about you and your hurted whittle feewings.

[OpIv37]

I'm
Yeah, I remember Ralph trying to give an OT a forearm shiver back in the day and completely wiffing. He was in negative numbers for career sacks.

BTW, your little hissy concerning Wilson just shows what kind of person you really are.

Typical New Age American. Whiney, needs someone to blame, poor me, Ralph didn't put a team on the field to win you a Super Bowl.

Oh, the injustice for the poor whittle narcissist. It's all about you and your hurted whittle feewings.

Ralph's lack of success on the football field has nothing to do with me. Not only did he fail to win a SB, he had maybe 12-15 good seasons out of 54 and left us with the longest active playoff drought in the NFL. It took him over 20 years to adjust after the merger and have a brief spell of winning, and he never adjusted to the era of free agency.

Say whatever you want about me, and make whatever incoherent attempt at social commentary you want. It will never make Ralph successful on the field.

[cookie G]

This forum isn't about business acumen or charitable donations. It's about Bills football, and that's where Ralph failed the most.

Perhaps, but the thread itself is about Ralph's donation of a bulk of his fortune to charitable causes to Detroit and Buffalo...two cities that can desperately use the money. That's what it was about...that is what people were praising.

In this thread....about his charitable donations...you took the time and energy to once again point out your opinions about his ownership qualities...as if there haven't been enough threads about him as an owner over the many years.

And worse...wouldn't let up when people asked you to hush.

Damn, its like a person on my wife's side of the family. You can't say anything good, about anyone, or anything they've ever done...without her chiming in with an "Oh yeah? Well, he/she didn't/wouldn't/couldn't do X. Or Y."

It gets a little old after a while.

Damn, I'm a negative person..but you make me look like Katrina and the Waves (Walking on Sunshine).

You might consider staying away from Celebration of Life get togethers for a while.

[OpIv37]

Lots of people have given lots of charitable donations without failing on the football field.

Ralph devoted a large portion of his life to football and was anything but successful. So people have to make it about something else to idolize the guy. **** that. This board is about football and that's where Ralph failed.

[Dr. Lecter]

Lots of people have given lots of charitable donations without failing on the football field.

Ralph devoted a large portion of his life to football and was anything but successful. So people have to make it about something else to idolize the guy. **** that. This board is about football and that's where Ralph failed.

1. You even criticized his donation.
2. You made a false claim about what happened with the CBA
3. This board is about a lot more than football. As is life.
4. This thread was about how he went above and beyond to help out two poor cities.

And you still refuse to give him credit for anything,

Hence the Uppy comparison. Which is getting more and more apt.

[Historian]

I can't refute anything you've written, OP.

I just don't see him as a "football failure" as you do.

Some of his decisions were maddening, to be sure (Lamonica, Polian, and Rashad are probably my top three!) but there has been an awful lot of great football played here over the past 50 years. During the losing seasons as well as the winners.

I think about our 0-11 Bills knocking Landry's Cowboys out of the playoffs in 1984. Or that 1980 opener where we finally beat the fish. Hell, we even had a fun scab team to watch during the '87 strike.

One of the Bills Mafiosos asked on Twitter last week if we would even be fans had the Super Bowl team never come together and had success. (The premise being that this would be an uber-terrible team without success in that era)

My response was "Absolutely, because I would never trade all the friendships that I have made that are a direct result of the franchise:

All the online people. (Zone, Range, TBD)
The people who's seats were around me from Knox to Williams.
The player alumni I met.
The tailgaters.
Memorabilia dealers.
Backers in other towns.

I can't tell you the number of absolute strangers I have met that became instant friends, as a direct result of us sharing a passion for the same team.

That's because of Ralph and his efforts.

Like I said, I measure success in more than just Wins and Losses, but that's just me.

[Historian]

I believe the above is a Bills phenomenon too.

In addition, I've been a Sabres fan since they dropped the first puck in 1970, as well as a Braves fan from 1970-1979, and I cannot say that I have met many people due to those teams. I'm sure there are some, but it's a different vibe....a different passion.

And those teams were more successful.

[Historian]

And for the record Brian, I was under the impression that you lived in northern Virginia, Alexandria, etc.

[pmoon6]

Perhaps, but the thread itself is about Ralph's donation of a bulk of his fortune to charitable causes to Detroit and Buffalo...two cities that can desperately use the money. That's what it was about...that is what people were praising.

In this thread....about his charitable donations...you took the time and energy to once again point out your opinions about his ownership qualities...as if there haven't been enough threads about him as an owner over the many years.

And worse...wouldn't let up when people asked you to hush.

Damn, its like a person on my wife's side of the family. You can't say anything good, about anyone, or anything they've ever done...without her chiming in with an "Oh yeah? Well, he/she didn't/wouldn't/couldn't do X. Or Y."

It gets a little old after a while.

Damn, I'm a negative person..but you make me look like Katrina and the Waves (Walking on Sunshine).

You might consider staying away from Celebration of Life get togethers for a while.Well, the world is full of whiney little *****es.

He was probably a spoiled child and when things don't go as he thinks they should, he cries.

Unfortunately, a lot of the last two generations were raised in a similar fashion.

[OpIv37]

And for the record Brian, I was under the impression that you lived in northern Virginia, Alexandria, etc.
I did until about 3 years ago. We are finally selling our house there and just got a contract on it yesterday.

[OpIv37]

I can't refute anything you've written, OP.

I just don't see him as a "football failure" as you do.

Some of his decisions were maddening, to be sure (Lamonica, Polian, and Rashad are probably my top three!) but there has been an awful lot of great football played here over the past 50 years. During the losing seasons as well as the winners.

I think about our 0-11 Bills knocking Landry's Cowboys out of the playoffs in 1984. Or that 1980 opener where we finally beat the fish. Hell, we even had a fun scab team to watch during the '87 strike.

One of the Bills Mafiosos asked on Twitter last week if we would even be fans had the Super Bowl team never come together and had success. (The premise being that this would be an uber-terrible team without success in that era)

My response was "Absolutely, because I would never trade all the friendships that I have made that are a direct result of the franchise:

All the online people. (Zone, Range, TBD)
The people who's seats were around me from Knox to Williams.
The player alumni I met.
The tailgaters.
Memorabilia dealers.
Backers in other towns.

I can't tell you the number of absolute strangers I have met that became instant friends, as a direct result of us sharing a passion for the same team.

That's because of Ralph and his efforts.

Like I said, I measure success in more than just Wins and Losses, but that's just me.

Well, first, it's great that you made friends as a result of the team and that the fan base is passionate, but that doesn't make the team successful on the field.

Second, like I already said: The Bills failed to win a Super Bowl because Ralph struggled to adjust after the merger and never adjusted to FA. We lost to the Dolphins 20 straight times and the Patriots 17 straight times. We are in the midst of the longest active playoff drought in the NFL and the second longest in North American major pro sports.

Sure, there were good times: the comeback game, the early 90's, a handful of other great moments here and there. But for every comeback there are two blowouts at the hands of a hated rival. For every upset of the Cowboys, there are 2 epic collapses in nationally televised games. The 90's were successful but then you have the 70's and the 21st century to date.

When you look at his entire body of work on the field, the results are very poor. And you still would have made all those friendships if the team was winning.

[Novacane]

:deadhorse: You've made your point. About 100 times. You're not going to change anyone's mind.

[OpIv37]

:deadhorse: You've made your point. About 100 times. You're not going to change anyone's mind.

Don't care- not giving up the fight. I'm not going to let people forget or ignore Ralph's football failure no matter how much they want to.

[Novacane]

Feel free to keep pounding home what a ***** you are :up:

[OpIv37]

Feel free to keep pounding home what a ***** you are :up:

Other people having selective memories doesn't make me a *****.

[Historian]

I'm not trying to goad you on, OP, but truth be told, some of my best memories at that stadium were during the absolute worst seasons.

[Dr. Lecter]

Don't care- not giving up the fight. I'm not going to let people forget or ignore Ralph's football failure no matter how much they want to.


So there can be no discussion of him without beating it into the ground?

I am sure that you have ****ed something up in your life at some point.

Do you want Dora to bring it up every single day time and time again?

[OpIv37]

I'm not trying to goad you on, OP, but truth be told, some of my best memories at that stadium were during the absolute worst seasons.

Well think about this: how many of those memories would beat a Super Bowl victory? And it's not mutually exclusive- every team goes through cycles and Ralph still would have had bad seasons where you could have had the same memories. It's just that his lack of success on the field deprived us of memories at the top part of that cycle.

[OpIv37]

I
So there can be no discussion of him without beating it into the ground?

I am sure that you have ****ed something up in your life at some point.

Do you want Dora to bring it up every single day time and time again?
We are not talking about a single **** up here. We are talking about repeated failure at something that he devoted a significant portion of his life to. And it's something that affects other people as well.

If I spent a ton of time, energy and money on something and was constantly screwing it up and making other people unhappy, I would hope that Dora and other people close to me would tell me to stop or drastically change my approach to it.

[Dr. Lecter]

Well, that's what we are doing now.

And you are ignoring us............

[Dr. Lecter]

The fact is if there was a thread about his failure as an owner and somebody said "But, Op, he gave a lot to charity" you would tell them that it has nothing to do with his failure as an owner.

And that would be true.

Just as his failure as an owner has nothing to do with his generousity to charitable causes.

[trapezeus]

i figured i'd pop in here to add fuel to this tire fire. Below is a quote from the Eagles owner:

"They're very committed to Buffalo — we're delighted to approve them," Philadelphia Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie said Tuesday. "And I think they'll be great for Buffalo. It's really going to be a boon to honor the history of the Wilson family, and at the same time take it in a whole new direction."

If you ask me, it kind of defends what OP is saying. On one hand, ralph was a great guy to put football here, and people who really interacted with wilson over 90 years have nothing bad to say about the guy. So yeah, hell of a man. The trust, hell of a gesture. Literally he did what other billionaires are alluding to but not actually doing.

but on the otherhand, lurie, an owner who knew him, essentially says that the bills need to be taken another direction. Towards the direction of winning and the old ownership didn't value that. why else did nothing but cosmetic changes occur when the ship was clearly taking on water. it is possible to recognize ralph as a great individual guy who a very spotty football record. And an NFL owner is essentially saying that in the quote above.

[Historian]

Well think about this: how many of those memories would beat a Super Bowl victory? And it's not mutually exclusive- every team goes through cycles and Ralph still would have had bad seasons where you could have had the same memories. It's just that his lack of success on the field deprived us of memories at the top part of that cycle.

I'm not quite sure I even understand what that even means.

Like I said, it appears we measure success differently.

[YardRat]

Here you go Op---the football gods have chosen to speak to you, through me, and have the ability to broker a deal.

The football Gods will give you a Super Bowl victory, but in exchange the team leaves WNY for LA or Toronto at the earliest moment possible.
They will also give you a second Super Bowl victory (only if you choose the first, obviously), but in exchange all of the philanthropy Wilson is associated with in WNY disappears, instantly.

Do you want to make a deal, or two?

[OpIv37]

Here you go Op---the football gods have chosen to speak to you, through me, and have the ability to broker a deal.

The football Gods will give you a Super Bowl victory, but in exchange the team leaves WNY for LA or Toronto at the earliest moment possible.
They will also give you a second Super Bowl victory (only if you choose the first, obviously), but in exchange all of the philanthropy Wilson is associated with in WNY disappears, instantly.

Do you want to make a deal, or two?
False dichotomy.

If Ralph had been able to manage the team better, or had been willing to pay a capable person to run the team and stay out of his way, we could have had the philanthropy and kept the team and won football games.

Hence, my criticism of Ralph.

- - - Updated - - -


I'm not quite sure I even understand what that even means.

Like I said, it appears we measure success differently.

I'm talking about winning football games because that's what football teams are supposed to do. There is no other way to measure it.

[EricStratton]

Are you able to enjoy the Buffalo Bills and the experience if being a fan in spite of the teams lack of a Super Bowl victory Op?

Would one SB have been better, sure but does that change how you enjoy the team on Sundays.

You live in Baltimore, a city who lost a team once and has traded two SuperBowls for a murdering linebacker and a wife beating running back playing on their current rosters (or current at the time) . Were the Super Bowls worth it.

[YardRat]

False dichotomy.

If Ralph had been able to manage the team better, or had been willing to pay a capable person to run the team and stay out of his way, we could have had the philanthropy and kept the team and won football games.

Hence, my criticism of Ralph.

- - - Updated - - -



I'm talking about winning football games because that's what football teams are supposed to do. There is no other way to measure it.

That was actually one of two responses I expected.

"I want it ALL, why can't I have it?" Typical of a whiney-ass spoiled little insolent brat.

Thanks for playing.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NqhdO5sZ4x4/SwtqEJUXp1I/AAAAAAAAHBY/Z2eckST0PTg/s320/spoiled_brat.jpg

[OpIv37]

Are you able to enjoy the Buffalo Bills and the experience if being a fan in spite of the teams lack of a Super Bowl victory Op?

Would one SB have been better, sure but does that change how you enjoy the team on Sundays.

You live in Baltimore, a city who lost a team once and has traded two SuperBowls for a murdering linebacker and a wife beating running back playing on their current rosters (or current at the time) . Were the Super Bowls worth it.

I don't know, ask a Ravens fan.

Again, false dichotomy. Lots of teams have won without having a roster of thugs. If Ralph had managed things better, he could have done the same.

[EricStratton]

So you've had no joy in your history of watching Bills football?

If that is the case, and it sounds like it is, why bother?