Jimbo Fisher on EJ pre-draft ........wow!

[streetkings01]

Being an FSU fan I saw that Jimbo never trusted EJ and dumbed down the playbook for him. He trusted Winston way more then EJ as a freshman.........he trusted Ponder more then EJ as well.


The Buffalo Bills can't blame Florida State coach Jimbo Fisher for overselling them on quarterback EJ Manuel, who was benched last week.


Fisher was adamant throughout the pre-draft evaluation process that he didn't believe Manuel had the tools to be an NFL starter and he shouldn't be any better than a third-round pick, according to sources.


The Bills selected Manuel with the 16th overall pick in the 2013 draft. He has started 14 games for the Bills since being drafted, posting a 6-8 record.


Fisher was extremely positive about Manuel as a person and as a hard worker, but he was very open and honest with teams about how limited he felt Manuel was as a quarterback prospect.


He also told teams that even if Manuel were eligible to return for another season, he had a redshirt freshman quarterback he had been developing, who was waiting in the wings -- a player by the name of Jameis Winston.


Veteran Kyle Orton will make his first start for the Bills on Sunday against the Detroit Lions.
http://m.espn.go.com/nfl/story?storyId=11646532

[SpikedLemonade]

So the Bills brass were not listening?

Buddy Nix is hard of hearing.

[Albany,n.y.]

More evidence that no truer statement was ever made than when Buddy Nix said he wasn't the smartest person in the room. The problem was he repeated it in a room at an appearance at a school for the mentally challenged and was still 100% correct.

[BillsImpossible]

The entire 2013 draft class of quarterbacks was a giant bust.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The entire 2013 draft class of quarterbacks was a giant bust.

Oddly, the one who's probaly shown the most is Glennon, and I thought he looked like the weakest of the major prospects.

[BillsImpossible]

Oddly, the one who's probaly shown the most is Glennon, and I thought he looked like the weakest of the major prospects.

Last year against the Bills, Glennon completed 9 out of 25 for 90 yards, 2 TD's and 2 INT's and won 27-6.

The whole 2013 draft class of quarterbacks probably won't be in the league 3 years from now.

The Bills (and their fans) felt compelled to draft a QB in 2013.

Swing and another miss in the first round, which is why I don't mind the Watkins trade up.

Sammy Watkins proved he isn't a bust in training camp.

Doug Whaley was like, "We suck at drafting in the first round, so why not just give up next years first rounder and get it right for once?"

[Joe Fo Sho]

http://floridastate.247sports.com/Bolt/Jimbo-Fisher-disputes-ESPNs-Adam-Schefters-report-on-EJ-Manuel-31782946

Jumbo Fisher is disputing this report and released a statement, if anyone really cares about this.

[swiper]

Here's the take away advice. Never draft an FSU QB.

[Skooby]

He's benched, next.

[Mace]

I guess I still have an issue with drafting a developmental QB you don't know how to develop that high, sticking a spread guy into a west coast, not getting a reliable west coast vet qb to mentor him, not having a qb coach, thinking your kid college oc can be qb coach, hiring a bad qb coach, and being amazed your dev QB has not dev'ed, sticking him behind a behemoth power game line that zone blocks in a scheme for agile linemen......drafting him too high and desperate, then seeming confused why he didn't work right.

[bleve]

Buddy Nix: "We neeed to geet ourselves a korterback"

[GreedoII]

So the Bills brass were not listening?

Buddy Nix is hard of hearing.

Buddy just picked the big athletic looking dude. Other than that he had no clue

[Dr. Who]

http://floridastate.247sports.com/Bolt/Jimbo-Fisher-disputes-ESPNs-Adam-Schefters-report-on-EJ-Manuel-31782946

Jumbo Fisher is disputing this report and released a statement, if anyone really cares about this.

And the rest of the thread goes on as if Fisher's repudiation of the report never happened. Unsurprising.

[DraftBoy]

And the rest of the thread goes on as if Fisher's repudiation of the report never happened. Unsurprising.

Well you have to keep in mind that Fisher has to denounce the report. Everyday he's sitting in a kids living room or on the phone with a recruit trying to get him to come to FSU. Many of those kids are top rated with NFL aspirations, how do you think they'll react to a coach who will call a NFL team and badmouth his own player? It wouldn't go over well at all.

So for most people his denial means very little.

[better days]

Oddly, the one who's probaly shown the most is Glennon, and I thought he looked like the weakest of the major prospects.

Glennon was the guy I wanted the Bills to draft & he had a good game against the Saints yesterday even though the Bucs lost a tight one.

Happy the Bucs drafted him since the Bills didn't.

[Goobylal]

Well you have to keep in mind that Fisher has to denounce the report. Everyday he's sitting in a kids living room or on the phone with a recruit trying to get him to come to FSU. Many of those kids are top rated with NFL aspirations, how do you think they'll react to a coach who will call a NFL team and badmouth his own player? It wouldn't go over well at all.

So for most people his denial means very little.
On the flip side, he can say that despite telling teams not to draft him high, he still was, and that's because he went to FSU.

[Dr. Who]

Well you have to keep in mind that Fisher has to denounce the report. Everyday he's sitting in a kids living room or on the phone with a recruit trying to get him to come to FSU. Many of those kids are top rated with NFL aspirations, how do you think they'll react to a coach who will call a NFL team and badmouth his own player? It wouldn't go over well at all.

So for most people his denial means very little.

I see what you mean. What a cynical business.

[DraftBoy]

On the flip side, he can say that despite telling teams not to draft him high, he still was, and that's because he went to FSU.
So you would go play for a coach who may potentially bash you later?

[Goobylal]

So you would go play for a coach who may potentially bash you later?
If it's a premier program, yes. And if I think I'm all that, I don't worry about him bashing me later.

But why would Fisher denigrate EJ to prospective NFL teams? He wants him to go as high as possible. Doesn't make sense. And he didn't just say that he never said that; he said he never talked to any other teams. If he truly said that, he'd have just said "I didn't say that" and left it at that.

[swiper]

Glennon was the guy I wanted the Bills to draft & he had a good game against the Saints yesterday even though the Bucs lost a tight one.

Happy the Bucs drafted him since the Bills didn't.

He's not very good. If he is the QB ceiling for that draft, then the entire draft is sad for QBs.

[Discotrish]

http://floridastate.247sports.com/Bolt/Jimbo-Fisher-disputes-ESPNs-Adam-Schefters-report-on-EJ-Manuel-31782946

Jumbo Fisher is disputing this report and released a statement, if anyone really cares about this.

"We are not dummies!" Statement.

Patti

[Albany,n.y.]

If it's a premier program, yes. And if I think I'm all that, I don't worry about him bashing me later.

But why would Fisher denigrate EJ to prospective NFL teams? He wants him to go as high as possible. Doesn't make sense. And he didn't just say that he never said that; he said he never talked to any other teams. If he truly said that, he'd have just said "I didn't say that" and left it at that.

I think it's more important to maintain your credibility with the NFL because, as a college HC, you never know when having contacts in the NFL can come in handy. Which is better for Fisher-getting a QB who he is pretty sure can't make it drafted high, or gaining the trust of NFL people by leveling with them? The NFL team is going to find out pretty soon that the player can't play & if the coach misled him, they'll never trust him again. On the other hand if I know someone can't do a job, and I'm aware of networking, I'd rather be honest & maintain my credibility than be known as the guy who sold someone on a bum.
A bigger problem would be Marrone's-he rejected his own QB for 3 rounds. Actions speak louder than words & Marrone was saying he doesn't think much of Nassib's chances in the NFL. It's pretty easy to see why Nassib lasted until round 4 when his own coach rejected him.

[DraftBoy]

If it's a premier program, yes. And if I think I'm all that, I don't worry about him bashing me later.

Then you're an idiot who doesn't care about his future.


But why would Fisher denigrate EJ to prospective NFL teams? He wants him to go as high as possible. Doesn't make sense. And he didn't just say that he never said that; he said he never talked to any other teams. If he truly said that, he'd have just said "I didn't say that" and left it at that.

Coaching is a bit of a fraternity. The guys in that profession talk a lot.

[Albany,n.y.]

http://floridastate.247sports.com/Bolt/Jimbo-Fisher-disputes-ESPNs-Adam-Schefters-report-on-EJ-Manuel-31782946

Jumbo Fisher is disputing this report and released a statement, if anyone really cares about this.

English translation: Only Buddy Nix was crazy enough to ask me about EJ and consider drafting him with a premium pick. All the other GMs looked at the films & knew better, they didn't need to ask me anything, they could see all they needed to see with their own eyes.

[Goobylal]

I think it's more important to maintain your credibility with the NFL because, as a college HC, you never know when having contacts in the NFL can come in handy. Which is better for Fisher-getting a QB who he is pretty sure can't make it drafted high, or gaining the trust of NFL people by leveling with them? The NFL team is going to find out pretty soon that the player can't play & if the coach misled him, they'll never trust him again. On the other hand if I know someone can't do a job, and I'm aware of networking, I'd rather be honest & maintain my credibility than be known as the guy who sold someone on a bum.
A bigger problem would be Marrone's-he rejected his own QB for 3 rounds. Actions speak louder than words & Marrone was saying he doesn't think much of Nassib's chances in the NFL. It's pretty easy to see why Nassib lasted until round 4 when his own coach rejected him.


Then you're an idiot who doesn't care about his future.

Coaching is a bit of a fraternity. The guys in that profession talk a lot.
You're an idiot if you think a) 17 and 18 year olds think about what their college coach may or may not say about them to NFL personnel in 3-4 years and b) that they don't have massive egos and think it won't happen to them. In the face of getting a scholarship, much less a chance to walk-on, at a premier program.

And as for trying to get into coaching in the NFL, I could see that angle. But coaching is coaching and personnel evaluation is another thing entirely. Moreover all Fisher has to do is say "I said he could play and they/you agreed with me since you drafted him in the 1st round, but they/you failed to develop him."

[DraftBoy]

You're an idiot if you think a) 17 and 18 year olds think about what their college coach may or may not say about them to NFL personnel in 3-4 years

Actually I don't think that, I know that for a fact. Having talked to players who have played at the top ranks of the FBS and lowest ranks of the NAIA I'm very aware of the reasons why they choose to go to the schools they did. Not one of them ever told me they went to a school where the coach didn't support the players because they knew they were that good.


and b) that they don't have massive egos and think it won't happen to them. In the face of getting a scholarship, much less a chance to walk-on, at a premier program.

Having a massive ego and wanting to play for somebody you know has your back are not mutually exclusive. Also these are premier prospects who are getting offers for every school in the Top 50. FSU isn't the only game in town that has a shot at the National Championship.

[Albany,n.y.]

Actually I don't think that, I know that for a fact. Having talked to players who have played at the top ranks of the FBS and lowest ranks of the NAIA I'm very aware of the reasons why they choose to go to the schools they did. Not one of them ever told me they went to a school where the coach didn't support the players because they knew they were that good.



Having a massive ego and wanting to play for somebody you know has your back are not mutually exclusive. Also these are premier prospects who are getting offers for every school in the Top 50. FSU isn't the only game in town that has a shot at the National Championship.

Any kid who thinks his college coach will be there in 3-4 years is pretty naïve. Unless he's headed to a college where the coach is an institution, like Penn State during Jo-Pa's prime, there are no guarantees the coach won't leave for a better job or get fired. 3-4 years is a long time in coaching years. Chances are pretty good the coach in his living room won't be there when he is headed to the NFL.

[Goobylal]

Actually I don't think that, I know that for a fact. Having talked to players who have played at the top ranks of the FBS and lowest ranks of the NAIA I'm very aware of the reasons why they choose to go to the schools they did. Not one of them ever told me they went to a school where the coach didn't support the players because they knew they were that good.

Having a massive ego and wanting to play for somebody you know has your back are not mutually exclusive. Also these are premier prospects who are getting offers for every school in the Top 50. FSU isn't the only game in town that has a shot at the National Championship.
Every coach's job is to support his players throughout, not to play pro scout. If Fisher denigrated EJ just to make himself look better to NFL teams, he's a idiot and an *******. Moreover, if I'm an NFL team and I see a 5-star recruit who is being denigrated by his coach, I'm thinking the coach was the one who failed. Lastly, what if he says "Jameis Winston is a great NFL prospect" and he also tanks in the NFL? How does that make him look?


Any kid who thinks his college coach will be there in 3-4 years is pretty naïve. Unless he's headed to a college where the coach is an institution, like Penn State during Jo-Pa's prime, there are no guarantees the coach won't leave for a better job or get fired. 3-4 years is a long time in coaching years. Chances are pretty good the coach in his living room won't be there when he is headed to the NFL.
Exactly. Especially if the coach tries to give honest opinions about his players, like Fisher allegedly did, just to curry favor with NFL people.

[DraftBoy]

Every coach's job is to support his players throughout, not to play pro scout. If Fisher denigrated EJ just to make himself look better to NFL teams, he's a idiot and an *******. Moreover, if I'm an NFL team and I see a 5-star recruit who is being denigrated by his coach, I'm thinking the coach was the one who failed. Lastly, what if he says "Jameis Winston is a great NFL prospect" and he also tanks in the NFL? How does that make him look?

Since when is that every coach's job? The job is to win football games, and that's it. We don't know why (or technically if) Fisher denigrated EJ, and the why doesn't really matter much. If Jameis tanks in the NFL that's on Jameis. If Jameis is successful in the NFL that's on Jameis. Why would anybody give Fisher credit for something a player did himself?



Exactly. Especially if the coach tries to give honest opinions about his players, like Fisher allegedly did, just to curry favor with NFL people.[/QUOTE]

[feldspar]

Here's the take away advice. Never draft an FSU QB.

I think Brad Johnson was the best one in the NFL.

[feldspar]

English translation: Only Buddy Nix was crazy enough to ask me about EJ and consider drafting him with a premium pick. All the other GMs looked at the films & knew better, they didn't need to ask me anything, they could see all they needed to see with their own eyes.

The reports were that a lot of other professionals also considered EJ Manuel the best QB prospect in the draft. This is not saying a whole lot, but it's still true from what I've read.

The Bills were the victims of the market that they forced themselves into, I think.

Picking QBs is kinda different...the value is not the same as other positions, which is why teams reach on them all the time. They are THAT important to have. It's the whole supply and demand type-thing. You grab your guy before somebody else does, in which case you are left holding the bag. I figure all that goes without saying.

At least we got Kiko Alonso with basically the same pick.

We'll see what happens with Manuel later on down the line, but personally, I'm far from optimistic.

Also, Jimbo Fisher denies saying these things now.

[Goobylal]

Since when is that every coach's job? The job is to win football games, and that's it. We don't know why (or technically if) Fisher denigrated EJ, and the why doesn't really matter much. If Jameis tanks in the NFL that's on Jameis. If Jameis is successful in the NFL that's on Jameis. Why would anybody give Fisher credit for something a player did himself?
Whereas if EJ fails, it looks bad on Fisher? Doesn't make sense. Again his job is to win games AND to recruit top prospects, and denigrating them to NFL teams isn't going to get that done.