Refs betting on the Pats

[Mr. Cynical]

Only explanation I can think of given how they are handing the game to them. Just. Awful. When will that effing love affair with the Pats END?

[Mr. Cynical]

Yes, I'm being emotional and illogical. I don't care. It's long overdue for them to go away and I'm just sick and tired of it.

[YardRat]

They were doing OK until they single-handedly killed the last Bills drive. I've seen maybe three horrendous calls so far on top of that.

[Goobylal]

What do you expect? This is what Coleman, who gave them their first Super Bowl win and was involved in that "just give it to them" game.

[Mr. Cynical]

I just hope Pegula can somehow reverse the Curse. I can't even begin to describe the absolute hatred I have for Belicheat and Brady. They need to retire already. Bills just can't beat them for whatever reason....and it's not because they are so superior, those days are gone... but the Bills have some kind of bad juju with them, leading all the way back to Belicheat being the DC for the Giants in SB25. Just ***** retire already.

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What do you expect? This is what Coleman, who gave them their first Super Bowl win and was involved in that "just give it to them" game.

Wow. Didn't know that. Nice.

[DynaPaul]

As soon as I saw Walt Coleman I knew the 12th man was here.

[Novacane]

I don't usually like the blaming the refs. This game has been terrible though.

[Mr. Cynical]

Turned it off. Rather get my head caved in with a sledge hammer.

[Historian]

In 47 years of watching Bills football I have seen some crazy-ass stuff.

But today is the first time I have EVER seen a player called for a personal foul for celebrating with his own teammate.

It staggers the imagination.

[Thurmal]

My three favorite calls today:

1) Jerry Hughes getting an unnecessary roughness penalty for giving HIS OWN TEAMMATE a congratulatory slap on the back.

2) Nickell Robey, coming completely unblocked off the edge to drill Brady, before the play is blown dead b/c of a "false start" that never happened.

3) The offsides penalty on Wynn in the 4th quarter where he wasn't offsides, but Edelman may have fumbled so let's call something on Buffalo to make sure they don't get the ball either way.

[bleve]

I am sick sick sick of the refs. Terrible.

It sucks.

[Thurmal]

In 47 years of watching Bills football I have seen some crazy-ass stuff.

But today is the first time I have EVER seen a player called for a personal foul for celebrating with his own teammate.

It staggers the imagination.
How about Hughes getting a personal foul b/c a lineman pushed him into Brady, but Darrelle Revis is allowed to pick Robert Woods up after he score the two-pointer and throw him to the ground. NO FLAG.

[imbondz]

Pats still were called for 1 more penalty than us. The Refs sucked but we lost cuz we're a perennial mediocre team. No other way around it. Patsies are once again a better team BY FAR. 37-22 at our place, 1st place on the line. Once again they prove they are the team to beat in the division.

[coastal]

The NFL DESTROYED the spygate evidence.

this really shouldn't be suprising.

[swiper]

Refs made an impact for the Patriots today. It's just not right.

[Mr. Cynical]

Pats still were called for 1 more penalty than us. The Refs sucked but we lost cuz we're a perennial mediocre team. No other way around it. Patsies are once again a better team BY FAR. 37-22 at our place, 1st place on the line. Once again they prove they are the team to beat in the division.

Number of penalties doesn't really mean much as a stat to defend the refs. It's the kind of penalties called, and when they were called.

Anyway, I agree with the rest of your post. It sucks. Pray Pegula can turn them around. And IMO, that starts with blowing up the FO. Even with the bad calls, they were sloppy, and that's on the coaching.

[chris66]

The NFL DESTROYED the spygate evidence.

this really shouldn't be suprising.man I thought you guys were better than this. Bills should have completely destroyed the pats. Thats was the same oline the pats sent out at the half that were in the miami and kc games. your defense imploded in the second half

[pmoon6]

I'll add Woods and Watkins were called for Offensive PI and Edelman does the same things and no flags.

Then again, they are the Patriots. Denver gets the same kind of advantage to which you can only conclude is because the NFL wants the stars to remain stars with records and wins.

So if you're playing teams like that, you have to overcome more than Manning and Brady.

[imbondz]

Number of penalties doesn't really mean much as a stat to defend the refs. It's the kind of penalties called, and when they were called.

Anyway, I agree with the rest of your post. It sucks. Pray Pegula can turn them around. And IMO, that starts with blowing up the FO. Even with the bad calls, they were sloppy, and that's on the coaching.

I understand that but it's not why we lost. That was my only point to this thread

[Mr. Pink]

Blaming the refs for losing games is weak as hell.

The refs suck across the board, in every game, against every team.

[pmoon6]

man I thought you guys were better than this. Bills should have completely destroyed the pats. Thats was the same oline the pats sent out at the half that were in the miami and kc games. your defense imploded in the second half**** you, Pats Fan. If you watched the game and didn't see the many gifts your team got, then you don't know anything about football.

If Buffalo won in that fashion, I wouldn't even consider it a win.

Of course, the usually BS will come soon. "Oh, sour grapes blaming officiating" Blah, blah, blah.

Too bad that has been part of New Englands' "winning formula" for a decade.

[DynaPaul]

Blaming the refs for losing games is weak as hell.

The refs suck across the board, in every game, against every team.

Not like this game. They were serious momentum killers.

[colin]

we lost today to a better team, no question. that said, the refs are turning into NBA refs out there. loose judgement calls, impacting just about every drive, and giving high profile players tons of slack. thats not about the bills, its about the league

[Mr. Pink]

Not like this game. They were serious momentum killers.

The refs took a TD away from the Pats and what did they do? They went and scored anyway.

Good teams overcome the refs. Average teams are overcome by the refs. Period.

[BuffRanger]

Blaming the refs for losing games is weak as hell.

The refs suck across the board, in every game, against every team.

If that were true we would be seeing the same bad calls that have gone against the Bills go in favor of the Bills at some point. We aren't. I haven't seen refs throw a flag for a blatant foul by the Bills, huddle up, then pick up the flag and say there is no penalty. It's happened to the Bills twice.

[DynaPaul]

The refs took a TD away from the Pats and what did they do? They went and scored anyway.

Good teams overcome the refs. Average teams are overcome by the refs. Period.

Yeah, they did score... Mostly on the strength of penalties against Buffalo.

And here's an addition to your pithy saying: "Favored teams are buoyed by the refs even when they're average teams at best."

Give it up dude, you won't find many agreeing with your apologism on this message board.

[chris66]

**** you, Pats Fan. If you watched the game and didn't see the many gifts your team got, then you don't know anything about football.

If Buffalo won in that fashion, I wouldn't even consider it a win.

Of course, the usually BS will come soon. "Oh, sour grapes blaming officiating" Blah, blah, blah.

Too bad that has been part of New Englands' "winning formula" for a decade.I did watch the game and the Bills defense blew chunks in the second half against a horrible interior oline. Just be glad you have Hughes and chandler because no one else showed up

[Thurmal]

Blaming the refs for losing games is weak as hell.

The refs suck across the board, in every game, against every team.
Your a Browns fan too right? Did you forget the NE/Cleveland game last year where the Pats got like 5 consecutive horse**** calls in the 4th quarter to come back from 10 points down to beat Cleveland? That team gets very favorable officiating. They're better than us, i'll give you that, but having to play against two teams sucks.

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Not like this game. They were serious momentum killers.

They completely ruined a Bills scoring drive in the 3rd quarter with those PI calls on Woods and Watkins.

[CoolBreeze]

I'll add Woods and Watkins were called for Offensive PI and Edelman does the same things and no flags.

Then again, they are the Patriots. Denver gets the same kind of advantage to which you can only conclude is because the NFL wants the stars to remain stars with records and wins.

So if you're playing teams like that, you have to overcome more than Manning and Brady.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The NFL uses refs to favor certain teams. You couldn't be anymore correct. This is the 3rd game we've been screwed with multiple bad calls. I usually don't complain, but it's so obvious

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, they did score... Mostly on the strength of penalties against Buffalo.

And here's an addition to your pithy saying: "Favored teams are buoyed by the refs even when they're average teams at best."

Give it up dude, you won't find many agreeing with your apologism on this message board.

Of course not, this is a fanbase who has been blaming the refs for losing games since the Music City Miracle. Like the NFL and the refs are conspiring directly against the Bills so they lose games for the past 15 years.

I suspect they don't watch other NFL games and see refs make ticky tack calls or borderline judgement calls in every game.

Hell, in the Panthers/Bengals game they just made a ticky tack illegal contact call to extend a Panther drive that ended up with a game tying FG in OT. Maybe the NFL and the refs just don't want the Bengals to win games either.

[swiper]

Blaming the refs for losing games is weak as hell.

The refs suck across the board, in every game, against every team.

No. It was unbalanced here. That ref with a bad call on Watkins killed our chances. It was wrong.

[Mr. Pink]

Your a Browns fan too right? Did you forget the NE/Cleveland game last year where the Pats got like 5 consecutive horse**** calls in the 4th quarter to come back from 10 points down to beat Cleveland? That team gets very favorable officiating. They're better than us, i'll give you that, but having to play against two teams sucks.

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They completely ruined a Bills scoring drive in the 3rd quarter with those PI calls on Woods and Watkins.

I will never blame the refs for anything. It comes down to making a play.

The Browns game example, all Cleveland has to do is recover the onside kick. Game over.

Make a play and don't use the refs as a crutch.

[chris66]

Of course not, this is a fanbase who has been blaming the refs for losing games since the Music City Miracle. Like the NFL and the refs are conspiring directly against the Bills so they lose games for the past 15 years.

I suspect they don't watch other NFL games and see refs make ticky tack calls or borderline judgement calls in every game.

Hell, in the Panthers/Bengals game they just made a ticky tack illegal contact call to extend a Panther drive that ended up with a game tying FG in OT. Maybe the NFL and the refs just don't want the Bengals to win games either. I know what the conspiracy is. The nfl doesnt want any small market teams. so they make sure that they never win. yeah thats it

[Thurmal]

I will never blame the refs for anything. It comes down to making a play.

The Browns game example, all Cleveland has to do is recover the onside kick. Game over.

Make a play and don't use the refs as a crutch.

The Bills did make plays. How many times did some bull**** call bail out NE after we stopped them on 3rd down today?

[pmoon6]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The NFL uses refs to favor certain teams. You couldn't be anymore correct. This is the 3rd game we've been screwed with multiple bad calls. I usually don't complain, but it's so obviousAnd here's another thing. When you do complain about the officiating, you're shut down as being a poor loser....so not many will do it because they don't want to be seen in that light.

I try to call them like I see them, so if I have a question I rewind and look at the play.

In today's game we had drive killers called on us and drive extenders for Brady called against. Not to mention the non calls and unbalanced BS that went on.

All I ask for is consistency. If you're going to call a game tight, call it tight for both teams. If you want to let them play except for anything flagrant, the same thing.

[BertSquirtgum]

Whoever doesn't think NE got more than favorable bull**** calls to extend numerous drives has their heads up their ass.

[Mr. Pink]

The Bills did make plays. How many times did some bull**** call bail out NE after we stopped them on 3rd down today?

They did? I recall seeing Brandon LaFell running right passed McKelvin catching an easy TD.

Play some D, force a punt or turnover and give your offense a chance to try and tie it.

[CoolBreeze]

I know what the conspiracy is. The nfl doesnt want any small market teams. so they make sure that they never win. yeah thats it

Yeah it's a crazy thought that the NFL could be corrupt and insanely greedy....

[Fixxxer]

I will never blame the refs for anything. It comes down to making a play.

The Browns game example, all Cleveland has to do is recover the onside kick. Game over.

Make a play and don't use the refs as a crutch.

Good plays were made but they were negated by awful calls by the refs.

[Buddo]

Even the commentators didn't agree with the calls that people are *****ing about. Same the other week against the Lions.
Both the PI calls on Woods and Watkins, were totally garbage.
As others pointed out, the same thing happened the other way, and wasn't called.
The worst part of the calls, was the fact that they either kept the momentum with the Pats, or took away any we were developing.

Now, tbh, I don't believe with the way we played, that we would have won. The secondary was rubbish, and Offensively we had mediocre QB play, and even when the QB did something right, we developed a case of the dropsies. As has been the case far too often, we made genuine mistakes, when we really shouldn't have. Spiller fumbling before the half, being one of the most glaring of those.

I would simply like to see all games fairly officiated, and they quite honestly aren't. The Bills have played 6 games now, and I've seen just two decent crews of officials in those 6 games. That just isn't good enough.

Here's another question for those who believe that officiating evens out. How often over the last several years, have the Bills actually won games on the strength of a bad call? I can't remember who it was against, but there is one that I vaguely recall. Other than that, there have been plenty where we have been hosed by the zebras, and a few where we won despite them - including probably both the Bears and Lions games this year.

[pmoon6]

Of course not, this is a fanbase who has been blaming the refs for losing games since the Music City Miracle. Like the NFL and the refs are conspiring directly against the Bills so they lose games for the past 15 years.

I suspect they don't watch other NFL games and see refs make ticky tack calls or borderline judgement calls in every game.

Hell, in the Panthers/Bengals game they just made a ticky tack illegal contact call to extend a Panther drive that ended up with a game tying FG in OT. Maybe the NFL and the refs just don't want the Bengals to win games either.Mr. Pink=Dick head.

He's not even a Bills' Fan, just an *******.

[paladin warrior]

Because ref are cheating only very friendly patriots no one else . Ref always fell in love with patriots . I would like to say 👆you patriots and fans and cake hole . shovel up Your A$$ hole patriots fans

[Mr. Pink]

No games are officiated particularly well.

The refs cost the Bengals a victory today and they had to settle for the tie on a ticky tack illegal contact penalty that was nowhere near the actual play.

Watch some games besides Bills games and you'll see ridiculous calls/non-calls/judgement calls against every team in the NFL.

So, outside of any blowout, if you want you can blame the refs for any loss or help in any win league wide.

[coastal]

Because ref are cheating only very friendly patriots no one else . Ref always fell in love with patriots . I would like to say you patriots and fans and cake hole . shovel up Your A$$ hole patriots fans
Here's a hint... Do two more shots and chug a beer.

then go pass out in a ditch.

[pmoon6]

Here's a hint... Do two more shots and chug a beer.

then go pass out in a ditch.No, No, he needs to get some "Tang" and do a couple lines.

Sobers up the astronauts..or so they tell me.

[Thurmal]

Whoever doesn't think NE got more than favorable bull**** calls to extend numerous drives has their heads up their ass.
Or buried deep into the sand.

[Mr. Pink]

And the Bills could have easily lost, or been in a position to lose the game against Miami.

Watkins TD could have just as easily been called a fumble and a touchback instead of a TD.

But that doesn't count right because it doesn't fit the NFL anti-Bills agenda some of you seem to think exists.

[paladin warrior]

Who is Mr.pink ? It Mr.pink is patriots fan?

[pmoon6]

Who is Mr.pink ? It Mr.pink is patriots fan?No, just a resident douchebag that thinks he's smarter than everyone else.

Oh and he's a "realist", dontcha know.

[paladin warrior]

No, just a resident douchebag that thinks he's smarter than everyone else.

Oh and he's a "realist", dontcha know.
Oh

[trapezeus]

$1.4bn doesn't buy you fair treatment

[jpdex12]

How about the 3rd and 16n the4th quarter where Gronk pushed off before he aught the ball? yeah, middle of the field cant see it?

[SpikedLemonade]

No, just a resident douchebag that thinks he's smarter than everyone else.

I agree.

I hate when people pick on Southern Italians or Polacks.

Show some class and shut up if you came from a better gene pool.

[Fixxxer]

How about the 3rd and 16n the4th quarter where Gronk pushed off before he aught the ball? yeah, middle of the field cant see it?

In the Chandler one handed catch where he looked like Tony G, he had a LB all over his jersey for the duration of the route, no flag, Duke Williams fights for the ball against Gronk, pass incomplete and a flag is thrown, that my friends, is playing with a different set of rules.

[upstart]

The Refs suck. Every team has bad call against them. To many rules to protect the O has changed the game to favor TV ratings .

However, the bottom line is you need to be able to over come bad calls like the Pats do .

[SpikedLemonade]

However, the bottom line is you need to be able to over come bad calls like the Pats do .

Have the Pats ever been through the suffering that Buffalo residents have?

Most of these posters were forced to go elsewhere to make a living.

[ckg927]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The NFL uses refs to favor certain teams. You couldn't be anymore correct. This is the 3rd game we've been screwed with multiple bad calls. I usually don't complain, but it's so obvious

Horsehockey.

Tell me, Mr. Breeze, what's the risk/reward factor? You're seriously going to tell everyone here about these theories, but why would you put at risk the billions of dollars the NFL has invested in its many broadcasting deals...corporate sponsorships...merchandise, etc. so the officials can favor certain teams, etc? If that's the case, the NFL would see one team dominate winning the SB year in and year out. But it doesn't happen. And it's not going to happen any time soon-if ever. The way the NFL is set up, you're never going to see dynasties like the Steelers of the '70s, etc. win multiple SBs(consecutively or not).

And, by the way, the NFL has enough PR headaches as it is without a BS theory like this that STILL lives like the zombies on The Walking Dead.

[upstart]

Have the Pats ever been through the suffering that Buffalo residents have?

Most of these posters were forced to go elsewhere to make a living.

I remember when Kelly and the boys kicked the crap out of the Pats for years. The clock will turn in time.

[bleve]

Blaming the refs for losing games is weak as hell.

The refs suck across the board, in every game, against every team.

To be clear, I am not blaming the refs on the loss. It's just that the Game has become unwatchable and not enjoyable because of the flags.

I can't get excited anymore when the Bills make a good play, because I know the inevitable flag is coming. If there is no flag on a particular play, the excitement is sort of taken out of it, because I expected it. And in that moment when my guard is down, and they *do* make a play, and I jump for joy, then - yep - the flag.

It's just making for very unwatchable entertainment.

I've been watching Bills football since mid-sixties. As a kid I'd go outside and have a game of pickup with my neighborhood buddies, I wore a white T-shirt with a "44" taped on with black electrical tape. I *was* Elbert Dubenion. This game seems like the last straw, it will be very hard for me to muster up the initiative to waste another Sunday.

And, no, I'm not jumping off a cliff, rather the opposite. There are so many things I can be doing on Sundays in the fall. I'm just sick of it. The NFL has been eroding my loyalty to football for many years, the over officiating thing has now pushed me farther away.

[ckg927]

​Why be a hater?Jump on the Pats bandwagon and cheer on a winner

When Brady and Belichick go, prepare for a LONG period of mediocrity.

The Pats have done little to fix their problems. You'd better hope that the team drafts well.

[imbondz]

I remember when Kelly and the boys kicked the crap out of the Pats for years. The clock will turn in time.

We dominated them in the 90's but not close to how they've been dominating us since 2001

[chernobylwraiths]

flags aren't the only way a team can affect the outcome of a game. Two plays come to mind, one of which was alluded to in this thread. One, Gronkowski catches a ball and is immediately hit and "fumbles" and luckily gets the ball. Now, I have seen that called incomplete many many times. Then later in the game, Edleman catches a ball over the middle, struggles for yardage and the ball is pulled loose. Now it is incomplete, and a penalty is called on the Bills for being offside, drive continues.

There have been real head scratching calls against the Bills all season. That personal foul on Hughes was unbelievable. The pass interference on Robert Woods was a bit much.

At least they finally called a pick play on an offense. Of course the offense was ours and it Watkins didn't even block on the play like others have done on the Bills.

But good teams and good players get more calls than bad teams and unknown players. I would love to see the all 22 to see how great Revis played on Watkins. He always seemed to clutch and grab his way to the top of his position.

[DraftBoy]

The first personal foul on Hughes was crap, but let's not be blind and forget that he completely got away with shoving Brady earlier on that drive.

We want to talk about calls only going one way then we have to be honest about it.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

That was complete and utter bull****. Lets see 5 for 34 v 7 for 105 and they ignore the pats for the same **** they flagged us for ? To be fair the three turnovers were the main reason we lost, but those calls were un****ingexcusable

[ckg927]

That was complete and utter bull****. Lets see 5 for 34 v 7 for 105 and they ignore the pats for the same **** they flagged us for ? To be fair the three turnovers were the main reason we lost, but those calls were un****ingexcusable

Pats had 9 penalties for 60 yards, we had 8 for 107.

[bdutton]

The first personal foul on Hughes was crap, but let's not be blind and forget that he completely got away with shoving Brady earlier on that drive.

We want to talk about calls only going one way then we have to be honest about it.

I saw that shove. Brady flopped and the ref knew it.

Here is the Hughes penalty. Total bull****. Kept a drive alive when the Bills had momentum.

http://www.nfl.com/now/share?id=496f3dde-4e49-457a-9df7-818cbb434253

[DynaPaul]

The Refs suck. Every team has bad call against them. To many rules to protect the O has changed the game to favor TV ratings .

However, the bottom line is you need to be able to over come bad calls like the Pats do .

OVERCOME?! No my friend, teams like the Patriots are buoyed by bad calls. It only takes one biased call to swing momentum or change the outcome of a game. Throw in a whole string of them at opportune times and you can kill the greatest offense or defense the league has ever seen.

[yordad]

The first personal foul on Hughes was crap, but let's not be blind and forget that he completely got away with shoving Brady earlier on that drive.

We want to talk about calls only going one way then we have to be honest about it.A little shove on the shoulder? In the NFL? During a live play? Come on. Did you happen to see Revis pick Woods up off the ground by his jersey then swing him back to the ground. After he scored, after he was down, and after the whistle was blown? AND, right in front of the ref while we watched? WTF.

[yordad]

Oh, also (I think it was Hughes again) our DE was grabbed from behind and tossed into Bradys legs.... 15 yard penalty?? IT IS NOT A PENALTY IF YOU ARE BLOCKED OR SHOVED INTO THE QB.

[DraftBoy]

I saw that shove. Brady flopped and the ref knew it.

Here is the Hughes penalty. Total bull****. Kept a drive alive when the Bills had momentum.

http://www.nfl.com/now/share?id=496f3dde-4e49-457a-9df7-818cbb434253

Doesn't matter, you can't touch the QB that late. You know that as well as I do. If it was Orton we'd all be screaming about it.

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A little shove on the shoulder? In the NFL? During a live play? Come on. Did you happen to see Revis pick Woods up off the ground by his jersey then swing him back to the ground. After he scored, after he was down, and after the whistle was blown? AND, right in front of the ref while we watched? WTF.

You know the rules regarding touching the QB.

[paladin warrior]

I saw that shove. Brady flopped and the ref knew it.

Here is the Hughes penalty. Total bull****. Kept a drive alive when the Bills had momentum.

http://www.nfl.com/now/share?id=496f3dde-4e49-457a-9df7-818cbb434253 yeah It total horse s%%T
. Tom b is a:cry: biggest cry:cry: baby and he always call ref.

[DesertFox24]

The thing that bothered me was the penalty on Hughes celebrating a good tackle with his teammate. The pass interference call against Gronk was terrible. The off pass int on woods and Watkins were terrible. The worst part is they did not call The pats for off pass int when they did worse

[yordad]

Doesn't matter, you can't touch the QB that late. You know that as well as I do. If it was Orton we'd all be screaming about it.

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You know the rules regarding touching the QB.If they would have thrown a flag I wouldn't have *****ed about that one (except at Hughes). But, I think it was a good no call. The Revis thing on Woods on the 2 point conversion was absolutely ridiculous.

On a side note, I liked seeing Woods jump up and get right in his face. He has shown a little fire cracker side.

[trapezeus]

and if we hit their receiver well after the play was over on an over throw on 3rd down wouldn't it have been a penalty? of course for the pats, and of course not with the bills.

the refs have been pretty terrible across the NFL this year and its hard to not think they want certain matchups for tv during the playoffs when the ad revenue is highest.

[DraftBoy]

If they would have thrown a flag I wouldn't have *****ed about that one (except at Hughes). But, I think it was a good no call. The Revis thing on Woods on the 2 point conversion was absolutely ridiculous.

On a side note, I liked seeing Woods jump up and get right in his face. He has shown a little fire cracker side.
I'm not saying that the call was a good one, I'm simply saying that if we are going to make claims that all the calls are going against us we at least need to be honest about it.

[trapezeus]

I'm not saying that the call was a good one, I'm simply saying that if we are going to make claims that all the calls are going against us we at least need to be honest about it.


that hughes penalty is a 15 yard extend a drive penalty. the make up call was a false start penalty on first down. also a bit odd since no one moved by the bills had a completely free CB ready to plaster brady.

and where were the pushoff calls when they called such smaller infractions on the bills.

you lose this arguement draftboy. the calls were dramatically onesided and the makeup calls towards the pats were all thee 5 yard meaningless stuff. calling a push off on 3rd and 16 instead o letting it stand as a first down with our LB lying on the ground is a huge advantage.

[Goobylal]

I knew when I saw Walt Coleman's stupid ugly mug early-on that the Bills would lose. He's the most crooked ref there is in football. And the game yesterday proved it. But that's why they're considered a joke and that their SB wins are tainted.

[DraftBoy]

that hughes penalty is a 15 yard extend a drive penalty. the make up call was a false start penalty on first down. also a bit odd since no one moved by the bills had a completely free CB ready to plaster brady.

and where were the pushoff calls when they called such smaller infractions on the bills.

you lose this arguement draftboy. the calls were dramatically onesided and the makeup calls towards the pats were all thee 5 yard meaningless stuff. calling a push off on 3rd and 16 instead o letting it stand as a first down with our LB lying on the ground is a huge advantage.

What argument am I making in your mind?

[YardRat]

For the record, after going through the play by play...in a nutshell...

The Patriots were flagged nine times-
---6 were false starts, 2 on 1st and ten (first and 15) 1 on 2pt conversion (still got XP), 1 on 3rd-10 (3 and 15) 1 on FG attempt from close range (still got fg attempt from close range) 1 on 3rd and 4 (3rd and 9)
---1 facemask (after 24 yard Hogan catch)
---1 holding (negated Gronk TD)
---1 illegal block on KO (drive start 13 instead of 23)

The Bills were flagged 8 times--
---1 unsportsmanlike conduct, Hughes (turned 4th and 1 into 1st and 10)
---2 Defensive pass interference (Duke, first and goal) 3rd and 2 (on Gronk, 17yds and first down)
---1 holding (on KO, drive start 12 instead of 28)
---1 roughing the passer (Hughes, 3rd and 4 now 1st and 10)
---1 offsides (2nd and 2 now 1st and 10)
---2 offensive pass interference, Watkins on 3rd and 2 (negated 31 yard gain) Woods on 2-10 (negated 9 yard gain, 3rd and 1 now 2nd and 20)

That's quite a disparity in severity, as well as affecting any results of the play the penalties occurred on. Not saying some weren't 'earned', the Duke PI being the most obvious.

The only penalty on NE that wasn't really 'inconsequential' was the holding that negated the Gronk TD, but one could count the conversion and FG, although NE still got 1 pt and the FG attempt was still a gimme.

The only penalty on Buffalo that was 'inconsequential' was the holding on the kick-off, all others resulted in first downs for NE's offense, loss of yardage gained for Buffalo's offense, or chunks of yardage for NE's offense that otherwise would have been no gain.

Sorry, but that's just bull****.

[YardRat]

BTW...the four false starts other than the kicks for NE were blown dead, no play, so no gained yardage was there to lose FWIW.

[DraftBoy]

Jared Cook just got popped for OPI where he was basically fighting through a jam within the first five yards. Never happens to other teams though...

[Mr. Pink]

Jared Cook just got popped for OPI where he was basically fighting through a jam within the first five yards. Never happens to other teams though...

SF just lost a catch on the sidelines by Gore through replay that was inconclusive and shouldn't have been overturned.

[feldspar]

Jared Cook just got popped for OPI where he was basically fighting through a jam within the first five yards. Never happens to other teams though...

That was a HUGE game changer that turned out to be at least a 10-point swing. That was NOT pass interference by ANY stretch of the imagination, but it was called and basically cost the Rams 10 points. Yeah, they didn't prevent the ridiculous 80-yard TD pass with 30 seconds left, but they shouldn't have been in that position...it's the refs that put them there. The call was absolutely ridiculous.

It should have been 17-3 Rams going into halftime...AT LEAST, in most likelihood. Maybe the Rams would have had a 21-3 lead going into halftime. We'll never know. Why? Because the refs called pass interference on an offensive player that made a textbook play.

Really makes the game difficult to watch after such things, especially when it happens to the same team multiple times in a game. Takes away momentum, too.

[DraftBoy]

That was a HUGE game changer that turned out to be at least a 10-point swing. That was NOT pass interference by ANY stretch of the imagination, but it was called and basically cost the Rams 10 points. Yeah, they didn't prevent the ridiculous 80-yard TD pass with 30 seconds left, but they shouldn't have been in that position...it's the refs that put them there. The call was absolutely ridiculous.

It should have been 17-3 Rams going into halftime...AT LEAST, in most likelihood. Maybe the Rams would have had a 21-3 lead going into halftime. We'll never know. Why? Because the refs called pass interference on an offensive player that made a textbook play.

Really makes the game difficult to watch after such things, especially when it happens to the same team multiple times in a game. Takes away momentum, too.

I agree I didn't think its was OPI but there was contact and PI is always going to be a judgement call based on degrees.

The rest of your post though I can't agree with because its impossible to know what happens if they don't flag Cook there. You're assuming the Rams score but Cook's catch didn't even put them into sure fire FG range (tackled at the SF 25 still makes for a 45ish yard FG). Also the foul happened on 3rd down and then St. Louis ran a give up play on 3rd and 19 to punt the ball away.

If the Rams don't completely crap the bed in the 2nd half they could of easily won that game. The call hurt but it wasn't close to why they lost the game.

[trapezeus]

What argument am I making in your mind?

That it's remotely close in the scope and damage the refs call penalties for the pats. its not a bills issue. its an issue for 31 teams playing the pats.

the nfl benefits from having new fans in a large market that largely didn't care. ever since they won, you can't find enough new jerseys these days. the bills were worth $1.4bn. guess what, the league loves having a large market engaged. and that will come at the cost of every other fanbase. it's not like we are *****ing and moaning about a single game. this is a pattern since 2001. every fanbase thinks it in relation to the pats and the pats alone.

[feldspar]

I agree I didn't think its was OPI but there was contact and PI is always going to be a judgement call based on degrees.

The rest of your post though I can't agree with because its impossible to know what happens if they don't flag Cook there. You're assuming the Rams score but Cook's catch didn't even put them into sure fire FG range (tackled at the SF 25 still makes for a 45ish yard FG). Also the foul happened on 3rd down and then St. Louis ran a give up play on 3rd and 19 to punt the ball away.

If the Rams don't completely crap the bed in the 2nd half they could of easily won that game. The call hurt but it wasn't close to why they lost the game.

Like you said, the call happened on third down. It was a gain of 21-yards. That was taken away WRONGLY. Tack on the 10-yard penalty, and it's 3rd-and-19 on the Rams 44-yardline instead of 1st-and-10 on the 49ers 25-yardline with over 2 minutes to go in the half (like it should have been). And the Rams are 31-yards further back.

There is absolutely ZERO doubt that it was NOT offensive pass interference. None. Did you watch the post-game show? Steve Young, Trent Dilfer, and Ray Lewis were adamant about it. You'd have to dream **** up to throw that flag. It just didn't happen, without a doubt. There is no discussion there.

And if we don't know what would have happened if this travesty of a flag wasn't thrown...I don't know, it just makes the game hard to watch. The Rams were controlling the game at that point. I think it's likely they score points. They probably run the ball and wear down the clock. a 42-yard fieldgoal ain't that far, either, from where they were on first down at the 25.

It's just a different game entirely without that flag, and that's my point.

Even though the Rams got their asses handed to them in the second half, they were still in it to the end. I think the flag LIKELY caused a 10-point swing at least, not to mention the monumental change in momentum that happened there.

[DraftBoy]

Like you said, the call happened on third down. It was a gain of 21-yards. That was taken away WRONGLY. Tack on the 10-yard penalty, and it's 3rd-and-19 on the Rams 44-yardline instead of 1st-and-10 on the 49ers 25-yardline with over 2 minutes to go in the half (like it should have been). And the Rams are 31-yards further back.

There is absolutely ZERO doubt that it was NOT offensive pass interference. None. Did you watch the post-game show? Steve Young, Trent Dilfer, and Ray Lewis were adamant about it. You'd have to dream **** up to throw that flag. It just didn't happen, without a doubt. There is no discussion there.

And if we don't know what would have happened if this travesty of a flag wasn't thrown...I don't know, it just makes the game hard to watch. The Rams were controlling the game at that point. I think it's likely they score points. They probably run the ball and wear down the clock. a 42-yard fieldgoal ain't that far, either, from where they were on first down at the 25.

It's just a different game entirely without that flag, and that's my point.

Even though the Rams got their asses handed to them in the second half, they were still in it to the end. I think the flag LIKELY caused a 10-point swing at least, not to mention the monumental change in momentum that happened there.

I had zero issue watching the game after the flag. Not sure I can buy into making the game harder to watch. Don't think it had any effect on the outcome because like I said the Rams **** the bed in the 2nd half and that's on them not the flag. The flag didn't remove any points directly from the board so I can't agree with its being a X-Point Swing either. The officials are going to make judgement calls and get it wrong. That's part of the game. The biggest issue right now is that the game is over legislated raising the amount of human error. Pass Interference has been *****ed about for decades, its never going to be reviewable, nor should it. They make the call, you mark off the yardage and move on to the next play.

[don137]

I honestly feel the refs/league are biased for large market teams and favoring what is best for the league. Calls usually go against the small market teams or teams in the bottom tier of volume of fan base. It doesn't help the league financially to have small market teams/ teams with smaller fan bases doing well over large market teams or teams with large fan bases.

Of course the Rams will get screwed by the refs against San Fran or Buffalo against NE.

[trapezeus]

and the small market teams take it because they went from being valued at $500mm at 2000 to $1.4bn in 2014. not a bad price to keepyour mouth shut.

[bdutton]

I had zero issue watching the game after the flag. Not sure I can buy into making the game harder to watch. Don't think it had any effect on the outcome because like I said the Rams **** the bed in the 2nd half and that's on them not the flag. The flag didn't remove any points directly from the board so I can't agree with its being a X-Point Swing either. The officials are going to make judgement calls and get it wrong. That's part of the game. The biggest issue right now is that the game is over legislated raising the amount of human error. Pass Interference has been *****ed about for decades, its never going to be reviewable, nor should it. They make the call, you mark off the yardage and move on to the next play.

After every single positive play the Bills made I was waiting for the inevitable flag. The current rules and the propensity for refs to favor the patriots make it much more difficult for me to watch. If the NFL wants to put a good product on the field they need to do a better job of policing themselves (i.e. better officiating).

[DraftBoy]

After every single positive play the Bills made I was waiting for the inevitable flag. The current rules and the propensity for refs to favor the patriots make it much more difficult for me to watch. If the NFL wants to put a good product on the field they need to do a better job of policing themselves (i.e. better officiating).

That's a you problem. I cheered after every single positive play by the Bills. I wasn't worried about a flag. What concerns me more was the lack of positive plays that the Bills made.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Saying that certain ****ty calls are "not why they lost the game" is a total copout.

Of course no single penalty or play causes a team to lose a game.

They are all part of a problem and they should not be there.

Of course if the team scored 100,000 points the bad calls wouldn't have mattered. Making comments like that really isn't saying anything, it's just a wake to fake knowledge of the game and act like stereotypical "no nonsense just win" guy like Jim Rome felating himself on the radio

Tom Brady and Lebron James are some of the biggest penalty whiners in the game, there is absolutely no correlation between being a penalty whiner and winning/losing, FYI.

[YardRat]

Of course one bad call doesn't qualify as a reason anybody lost a game, even if it occurred on the very last play and the final score was determined by that call, but when you see a disparity in types of calls, and the overall affect of those calls have over the course of a game like this past weekend with Buffalo and New England it certainly is not a non-factor. Of the 17 total penalties called, 8 were pretty much inconsequential and 9 had a direct impact on yardage and points (1 for New England, 8 for Buffalo). That is a huge difference, and 2 plays per quarter certainly can affect the outcome of a game.

[bdutton]

Of course one bad call doesn't qualify as a reason anybody lost a game, even if it occurred on the very last play and the final score was determined by that call, but when you see a disparity in types of calls, and the overall affect of those calls have over the course of a game like this past weekend with Buffalo and New England it certainly is not a non-factor. Of the 17 total penalties called, 8 were pretty much inconsequential and 9 had a direct impact on yardage and points (1 for New England, 8 for Buffalo). That is a huge difference, and 2 plays per quarter certainly can affect the outcome of a game.

This also needs to take into account the NON calls for obvious OPI on NE during one of the scoring drives... Gronk's 3rd and 16 push off for a 17 yard gain comes to mind.

[DraftBoy]

Saying that certain ****ty calls are "not why they lost the game" is a total copout.

Of course no single penalty or play causes a team to lose a game.

They are all part of a problem and they should not be there.

Of course if the team scored 100,000 points the bad calls wouldn't have mattered. Making comments like that really isn't saying anything, it's just a wake to fake knowledge of the game and act like stereotypical "no nonsense just win" guy like Jim Rome felating himself on the radio

Tom Brady and Lebron James are some of the biggest penalty whiners in the game, there is absolutely no correlation between being a penalty whiner and winning/losing, FYI.

That doesn't make any sense. You basically acknowledge the premise that penalties alone don't determine the outcome but then try and correlate the way Brady and LeBron work the refs to what fans are doing here right now? Not the same thing.

[DraftBoy]

Of course one bad call doesn't qualify as a reason anybody lost a game, even if it occurred on the very last play and the final score was determined by that call, but when you see a disparity in types of calls, and the overall affect of those calls have over the course of a game like this past weekend with Buffalo and New England it certainly is not a non-factor. Of the 17 total penalties called, 8 were pretty much inconsequential and 9 had a direct impact on yardage and points (1 for New England, 8 for Buffalo). That is a huge difference, and 2 plays per quarter certainly can affect the outcome of a game.

I don't a single person is arguing that penalties have no impact. The point being made by a few is that its your job as a team to overcome those no matter what disparity you may see week to week and that penalties are never going to single handily determine the outcome of a game or be the reason a team won or lost.

[bdutton]

http://www.sportsmedia101.com/buffalobills/2014/10/13/buffalo-bills-fans-feeling-cheated-after-officiating-debacle-against-new-england-patriots/


The Bills didn't do themselves any favors by turning the ball over three times, but a look at some of the penalties called on Buffalo (http://www.sportsmedia101.com/buffalobills/tag/buffalo/) are enough for frustrated fans to raise their eyebrows and scream obscenities.

Unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the Bills after a third-down stop of New England. The Bills stopped the Patriots on a short-yardage play, but were flagged for congratulating each other. Jerry Hughes (http://www.sportsmedia101.com/buffalobills/tag/jerry-hughes/) was flagged for essentially tapping his own teammate on the helmet after the stop. The officials will likely claim that the believe that he slapped a New England player in the head, but that type of mistake should not be made when officiating a professional sports game.
Pass interference was called on Duke Williams, basically because Rob Gronkowski wasn't able to make a diving catch. There was zero contact between Williams and Gronkowski. Instead, the tight end dove for a pass and was unable to make the catch. He was hobbled on the play, as well. Apparently referees are sympathetic to star players when they are injured after not being able to make a big play.
Offensive pass interference on Sammy Watkins (http://www.sportsmedia101.com/buffalobills/tag/sammy-watkins/) and Robert Woods (http://www.sportsmedia101.com/buffalobills/tag/robert-woods/) stopped what could have been a scoring drive. Watkins was flagged for having a defender run into him on a crossing route. Woods was wide open on the play and had a big gain, but it was wiped out. Ironically, New England ran the same type of plays all game, none of which were fouls. Woods was also flagged for pass interference for fighting off a defender on the sidelines before making a catch. Both players were battling with their hands and Woods never pushed off.

[bdutton]

http://www.profootballcentral.com/2014/10/14/bills-patriots-game-review/


The refs had a tough day on Sunday as well; there were several bad calls by the refs including a phantom unsportsmanlike conduct call on Jerry Hughes for congratulating his own teammate in the vicinity of a Patriot player. Late in the first half, the refs called offsides on Jerry Hughes and upon replay it was clear that he simply got a good jump on the snap. The flag negated a holding penalty on New England deep in Bills territory which would’ve pushed them out of striking distance. There was a questionable pass interference call on Duke Williams in the second half, but I don’t have issue with that one as much since Williams failed to turn his head around for the ball. Later in the third quarter, there was a horrible offensive pass interference call on Sammy Watkins on a pick play which negated a long gain by Robert Woods. There was no attempt by Watkins to block on the play and in fact, even the Fox announcer agreed, that Watkins tried to avoid the defender by getting vertical. On the same drive the zebras tagged WR Robert Woods for another offensive pass interference penalty that wouldn’t be called in flag football. Even the roughing the passer penalty assessed on Jerry Hughes late in the third quarter was highly questionable as he was shoved into Brady’s legs by his own offensive lineman.

[pmoon6]

After five pages of discussion, I think we can conclude that Walt Coleman handed the Pats the game. Wasn't the first and won't be the last.

On a side note, I wonder why Mike Carey (The best referee in the NFL the past few years) took a consultants job for a network? Maybe better money than what they pay an official? That's why the NFL gets worthless sacks of **** calling games.

Also, if the networks need to hire referee consultants, is it to help the fans understand the calls or is it to protect the game from criticism by BSing the viewer into thinking it's all good?

[trapezeus]

the nfl is becoming the nhl. calling penalties when they want to help mold the action. hooking isn't hooking in every game. slashing is different game to game.

similarly, holding is holding in the 1st quarter, but not so much in the 3rd quarter of a close game. but maybe if it's a bad team, "we'll teach them a lesson and flag them here."

everyone agrees football is a game of momentum. if refs are huddling every other play discussing if they saw what they think they saw, then you are ruining the natural momentum of the game.

[bleve]

After five pages of discussion, I think we can conclude that Walt Coleman handed the Pats the game. Wasn't the first and won't be the last.

On a side note, I wonder why Mike Carey (The best referee in the NFL the past few years) took a consultants job for a network? Maybe better money than what they pay an official? That's why the NFL gets worthless sacks of **** calling games.

Also, if the networks need to hire referee consultants, is it to help the fans understand the calls or is it to protect the game from criticism by BSing the viewer into thinking it's all good?

I think back in '98 when he said "just give it to 'em" he meant, like forever.

[chris66]

Dont think the refs handed NE the game. Buffalos defense did that all by themselves. were there ticky tack calls ,yeah probably, but those arent what lost the Bills the game.

Marrone sucks as a hc, i have never seen a hc that is so oblivious to situational football. having said that. i hope he is the bills hc for years. the only thing that would be better is if nix was still gm

[Mr. Pink]

For those of you who think the refs have a vested interest in who wins and who loses on Sundays based on market or the NFL hates the Bills or whatever else you can think of...why bother even watching the games?

The Bills will be in a perpetuate 6-10ish state not because they suck but because the NFL hates them.

So why bother?

[Goobylal]

For those of you who think the refs have a vested interest in who wins and who loses on Sundays based on market or the NFL hates the Bills or whatever else you can think of...why bother even watching the games?

The Bills will be in a perpetuate 6-10ish state not because they suck but because the NFL hates them.

So why bother?
Sort of like, if your life sucks, you should just end it all. Right?

[Mr. Pink]

Sort of like, if your life sucks, you should just end it all. Right?

No because you can do things to change your own life if you don't like it...you can't change the NFL they're gonna do what they're gonna do.

If you think like the NFL has it out for the Bills or small market teams, getting upset that the Bills lost to the Patriots is like getting upset that someone like Doink the Clown was never the WWE champion.

[pmoon6]

For those of you who think the refs have a vested interest in who wins and who loses on Sundays based on market or the NFL hates the Bills or whatever else you can think of...why bother even watching the games?

The Bills will be in a perpetuate 6-10ish state not because they suck but because the NFL hates them.

So why bother?I wouldn't bother if I still didn't get a kick out just watching those guys run out of the tunnel in red, white and blue.

I also don't tie a won/lost record to the reason I still watch.

I know it's hard for youngsters not to live vicariously through their chosen team.

Here's a question for you and the "realists".

Why bother watching when you don't think your team even has a chance to win? Why constantly complain about it and when you think we will never get better?

Don't bother responding, I already know the answer.

[pmoon6]

Sort of like, if your life sucks, you should just end it all. Right?I highly recommend that for the negatively inclined.

Their life sucks by definition.