Why not start Chris Hairston at OG?

[Ed]

I don't understand why the Bills don't give Chris Hairston a change at OG. I'll cut Richardson some slack since he's just a 5th round rookie, but it doesn't change the fact that he's struggled and probably been our worst O-lineman so far this year. Pears has looked bad too. OG just seems like a major weakness right now so why not make some changes like they did at qb? Why just continue along with the same guys that aren't getting it done?

I've always liked Chris Hairston and I'm glad he's still on the team as a swing tackle, but why not start him at OG? He's a young vet entering his prime that's started a bunch of games for us in the past at both LT and RT. I never felt like Hairston was a liability as a starter and thought he always played pretty well for the most part. Even at his worst, he was always at least adequate because I really don't recall him ever struggling. If it's easier to slide inside and play OG, why shouldn't we believe that Hairston could be an upgrade at either OG position? At this point I wouldn't mind seeing both Hairston and Urbik step in as starters. What do we really have to lose?

[YardRat]

Pears has been the worst, IMO. There was talk of Hairston working at guard, and IIRC he might have actually gotten preseason snaps there. Yeah, Richardson gets a pass to a certain point, but he really hasn't been that bad and we should expect to see improvement from week to week, hopefully. Don't know what goes on in practice, but I'd sure as hell at least get Urbik back in there and be trying to salvage something out of Hairston or KuJo by working them on the inside.

[kingJofNYC]

Why not Urbik?

Marrone, more like moron. Woods and Glenn haven't been that good either. OL regressing under this coaching staff.

[Mace]

Pears has been the worst, IMO. There was talk of Hairston working at guard, and IIRC he might have actually gotten preseason snaps there. Yeah, Richardson gets a pass to a certain point, but he really hasn't been that bad and we should expect to see improvement from week to week, hopefully. Don't know what goes on in practice, but I'd sure as hell at least get Urbik back in there and be trying to salvage something out of Hairston or KuJo by working them on the inside.

To me the lack of Urbik is getting crazy stupid as opposed to ignorant stupid and past stubborn stupid. Pears has no business whatever at guard. Better to have one questionable position then both guards.

Major demerits to supposed line guru Marrone. If they have some major reason they refuse to use Urbik (who they supposedly even tried trading before the season) instead of the out of position lost Pears or the green, happily kept inactive Richardson, they had no business keeping him on the roster to begin with and it's yet another fumbled personnel/roster issue.

[BertSquirtgum]

Because Marrone is an idiot and a terrible head coach.

[YardRat]

Why not Urbik?

Marrone, more like moron. Woods and Glenn haven't been that good either. OL regressing under this coaching staff.

I don't think Glenn has been bad this season, but Wood leaves a little bit to be desired. Unfortunately, against the Patriots they all took turns ****ing up. It's difficult to determine which squad had the worst game...the oline or the dbacks? Flip a coin.

[BertSquirtgum]

I don't think Glenn has been bad this season, but Wood leaves a little bit to be desired. Unfortunately, against the Patriots they all took turns ****ing up. It's difficult to determine which squad had the worst game...the oline or the dbacks? Flip a coin.

To be fair....When the guards are human turnstiles, it makes the center look that much worse.

[kingJofNYC]

I don't think Glenn has been bad this season, but Wood leaves a little bit to be desired. Unfortunately, against the Patriots they all took turns ****ing up. It's difficult to determine which squad had the worst game...the oline or the dbacks? Flip a coin.

Glenn missed a lot of time, hard to get on him.

We miss Joe D, he was a true OL guru.

[BertSquirtgum]

I miss Chan Gailey's offense. I never thought I would say such a thing. Marrone is a joke.

[HHURRICANE]

Is Cyril Richardson and the oline calling plays??

If not than I'm going with Hackett as the issue.

[swiper]

I don't understand why the Bills don't give Chris Hairston a change at OG. I'll cut Richardson some slack since he's just a 5th round rookie, but it doesn't change the fact that he's struggled and probably been our worst O-lineman so far this year. Pears has looked bad too. OG just seems like a major weakness right now so why not make some changes like they did at qb? Why just continue along with the same guys that aren't getting it done?

I've always liked Chris Hairston and I'm glad he's still on the team as a swing tackle, but why not start him at OG? He's a young vet entering his prime that's started a bunch of games for us in the past at both LT and RT. I never felt like Hairston was a liability as a starter and thought he always played pretty well for the most part. Even at his worst, he was always at least adequate because I really don't recall him ever struggling. If it's easier to slide inside and play OG, why shouldn't we believe that Hairston could be an upgrade at either OG position? At this point I wouldn't mind seeing both Hairston and Urbik step in as starters. What do we really have to lose?

Hairston is not a guard because he sucks. He was tried there in camp. He is in no way an upgrade. He's had more than his share of cracks at starting and he can't. Under multiple coaches. While I was once a fan of his - no longer. You can bet that Pears, Urbik AND HAIRSTON will all be gone next season.

[swiper]

I miss Chan Gailey's offense. I never thought I would say such a thing. Marrone is a joke.

If they had only gotten Orton while Gailey and Joe D'Alessandris were still here instead of crappy Fitz. Buddy Nix was the worst.

[jamze132]

I wonder if Hackett even understands defenses or if he adjusts to what the defense is trying to exploit in the middle of the game? I just keep seeing the same BS calls every week.

I also wonder how much of the in-game checks are the responsibility of the QB. If we line up and see the defense in position to negatively impact our play simply based on scheme, shouldn't the QB be responsbile to change the play to something more advantagious?

[Mahdi]

I miss Chan Gailey's offense. I never thought I would say such a thing. Marrone is a joke.

The thing is Gailey had a system, a plan and he had players (mimus the QB) to fit that system.

His zone blocking scheme featured OL that fit the system, he coached it well and he had Spiller and Jackson doing real well in it. Spiller in particular was killer on that inside zone play he had.

At this time Marrone is missing ingredients to make this offense complete whether it is him not coaching it right or not having adequate players to run it. Urbik was at one time one of our best OL now he's that bad?

As for Wood, he's not going to standout when the two guys next to him are being abused. Pears needs to go. I also highly doubt Hairston is the answer inside.

We need to check FA for a potential G.

[cookie G]

The thing is Gailey had a system, a plan and he had players (mimus the QB) to fit that system.

His zone blocking scheme featured OL that fit the system, he coached it well and he had Spiller and Jackson doing real well in it. Spiller in particular was killer on that inside zone play he had.

At this time Marrone is missing ingredients to make this offense complete whether it is him not coaching it right or not having adequate players to run it. Urbik was at one time one of our best OL now he's that bad?

As for Wood, he's not going to standout when the two guys next to him are being abused. Pears needs to go. I also highly doubt Hairston is the answer inside.

We need to check FA for a potential G.

In terms of missing ingredients...

If you are going to design 20 of your 23 running plays up the middle, as we did Sunday, you better have Larry Allen and Logan Mankins as your guards.

[jimmifli]

The thing is Gailey had a system, a plan and he had players (mimus the QB) to fit that system.

His zone blocking scheme featured OL that fit the system, he coached it well and he had Spiller and Jackson doing real well in it. Spiller in particular was killer on that inside zone play he had.

At this time Marrone is missing ingredients to make this offense complete whether it is him not coaching it right or not having adequate players to run it. Urbik was at one time one of our best OL now he's that bad?

As for Wood, he's not going to standout when the two guys next to him are being abused. Pears needs to go. I also highly doubt Hairston is the answer inside.

We need to check FA for a potential G.

Meh. Nix talked about getting big on the OLine and the importance of a power run game and a dominant defense. Then he spent all his resources adding talent to the D. In the meantime he filled the offensive roster with whatever junk that was available. The fact that Chan made it look like a coherent system should speak volumes about his ability to scheme, not Nix's ability to build a roster.

Chan is the best OC we've had here since... **** it's been a long time since we've had someone competent. Unfortunately, he was hired as the head coach.

[cookie G]

Chan is the best OC we've had here since... **** it's been a long time since we've had someone competent. Unfortunately, he was hired as the head coach.

Chan would drool over what is at the skill positions right now.

I don't have much of a problem with the passing game, WR's were open even when Manuel was playing, he was just missing them.

But the running game...damn...it really befuddles me. The guy should be thrilled at what he has to work with.

I'm not telling tales when I said they had designed runs up the middle on 20 of 23 carries against the Pats. If you have it DVR'd...watch..

Its incredible. Its like the same play, over and over. Almost as if he's doing it out of spite.

He could be going all Chip Kelly with his RB's...pitches, draws, counters, motion, reverses,

God he could have some fun.

Instead, he's acting like he he has Brandon Jacobs and Bradshaw.

Well..on second thought, even the Giants didn't run up the middle on every play.

[jimmifli]

Chan would drool over what is at the skill positions right now.

I don't have much of a problem with the passing game, WR's were open even when Manuel was playing, he was just missing them.

But the running game...damn...it really befuddles me. The guy should be thrilled at what he has to work with.

I'm not telling tales when I said they had designed runs up the middle on 20 of 23 carries against the Pats. If you have it DVR'd...watch..

Its incredible. Its like the same play, over and over. Almost as if he's doing it out of spite.

He could be going all Chip Kelly with his RB's...pitches, draws, counters, motion, reverses,

God he could have some fun.

Instead, he's acting like he he has Brandon Jacobs and Bradshaw.

Well..on second thought, even the Giants didn't run up the middle on every play.
I think he's gun shy after the first two games. I did some breakdown of Seantrel in the preseason and there were a bunch of nifty plays that ALMOST worked. But on each one, a pulling guard tripped or missed the block or didn't get outside fast enough or....

The first two games against actual competition were even worse. The only thing that sort of works right now is running off tackle behind Cordy. Everything else is broken, with runs up the middle being the least broken.

[coastal]

And people wonder why I ask for us to draft people like Iupati, DeCastro and Warmack.

[better days]

But I when the Bills failed to keep Levitre, I was told Guards were a dime a dozen & easily replaceable.

[YardRat]

But I when the Bills failed to keep Levitre, I was told Guards were a dime a dozen & easily replaceable.

Levitre has underperformed for most of this season and last, and the questions are starting to pop if he was worth the investment. If the Titans offense doesn't start showing some improvement, he's going to lose his job, and in all likelihood probably would have been replaced by Lewan already if not for the injury to Roos.

[cookie G]

I think he's gun shy after the first two games. I did some breakdown of Seantrel in the preseason and there were a bunch of nifty plays that ALMOST worked. But on each one, a pulling guard tripped or missed the block or didn't get outside fast enough or....

The first two games against actual competition were even worse. The only thing that sort of works right now is running off tackle behind Cordy. Everything else is broken, with runs up the middle being the least broken.

Or maybe it is coaching arrogance/stubborness, a seemingly prevelant trait among coaches, especially coordinators.

It is the "I know this works, because I preach it" attitude. And for some, the more people come out against what they are doing, the more powerful their resolve to do the same thing, just to prove the naysayers wrong. Many see themselves as geniuses, and criticism just fuels their belief that they are right and the rest of the world is wrong.

In a few cases, that might work, but it doesn't work for a guy in his first time at the position and with no track record.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea of running basically the same play on 20 of 23 attempts, and blaming anything but the coaching.

Hell...few little league coaches would do something like that. If they did, its because they have that RB who is twice as fast as anyone else..and they let him find his own holes. But this is the NFL, not little league.

No one...no one..in the NFL is insane enough to run a dive play on 20 of his 23 running plays. Changing RB's or the OL won't change that fact.

[Dr. Lecter]

Levitre has underperformed for most of this season and last, and the questions are starting to pop if he was worth the investment. If the Titans offense doesn't start showing some improvement, he's going to lose his job, and in all likelihood probably would have been replaced by Lewan already if not for the injury to Roos.

Again, that's not the point.

The Bills did not make a real effort to sign him and now the lack of a pulling guard is killing them. They also did not do anything to replace him

Kinda like with Byrd. Who might have been an step up over Duke Williams last week.

[YardRat]

Again, that's not the point.

The Bills did not make a real effort to sign him and now the lack of a pulling guard is killing them. They also did not do anything to replace him

Kinda like with Byrd. Who might have been an step up over Duke Williams last week.

Yeah, that is the point...neither were worth the money they were looking for. Levitre was a lightweight here, and he's proving to be a lightweight in Tennessee. Byrd missed tackles and was caught out of position here, and the same was happening in New Orleans before he was hurt.

If you think either one, or both, would've made a difference this past Sunday then you need to go back and review the results of the games against New England while both actually were here. No difference.

The only difference, if they would have been signed, is instead of people *****ing about the front office for not signing them, they would be *****ing because they were signed and underperforming...'Just more examples of the dumb-ass front office throwing money at mediocrity. We need to clean house, NOW!'

[Dr. Lecter]

If they actually had made a plan to replace either one of them I might agree. But they instead went with Colin Brown and Doug Legursky at guard. And they went with Searcy and Duke Williams at safety.

the fact is both players are worlds better than what is there now. Despite your apparent insistence that Byrd is Tavares Tillman Jr and that Levitre is the second coming of Bennie Anderson bother were damn good players. Byrd, in fact, was one of the top safeties in the NFL with an eye for the ball and a guy that made plays.

And while both were certainly overpaid, that is what happens in FA. Neither was overpaid any more than Mario Williams or Chris Williams. The problem is that there was not the foresight to make a stringer attempt to sign them for less than what they got in the market.

Clearly teams can't sign all of their UFAs. But it is a good idea to sign your better ones. I would much rather see Levitre here than Chris Williams.

[Famous Amos]

I miss Chan Gailey's offense. I never thought I would say such a thing. Marrone is a joke.

With Gailey, it wasn't his offense that was the problem. His offense was loads of fun to watch. it was the best offense since Bledsoe was under center. It was Gailey's clock and game management and the defense that sucked balls.

[Famous Amos]

But I when the Bills failed to keep Levitre, I was told Guards were a dime a dozen & easily replaceable.

There was a lot of talk like that back then. I didnt get it either. We had some of our best run offenses with levitre and Wood.

[Famous Amos]

The way Hackett calls run plays calls for interior offensive linemen to get a big push on their blocks and push them into the second level, or engage linebackers and push them into the second level to open holes for the running backs. It doesnt seem like they use full backs or pulling tight ends to create holes in the interior. So its up to the linemen. Our linemen were championed as the biggest and heaviest int he league and it shows, They are slow and sluggish and cant seem to open up holes. Certainly they are not capable of pulling.

However, some of the blame lies at the feet of Spiller, who has zero patience and even less vision for holes and it looks like he guesses which way to go. Then sometimes he bafflingly breaks the run outside where there isnt any blocking to support him.

[YardRat]

If they actually had made a plan to replace either one of them I might agree. But they instead went with Colin Brown and Doug Legursky at guard. And they went with Searcy and Duke Williams at safety.

The plan with Levitre might have been expecting to keep Rhinehart...he and Urbik would've made a decent pair last season, and maybe this. The plan at safety was AW and Searcy, with two rookies drafted (Meeks and DW). The foresight was there. If we hadn't played NE with a CB and limited experienced 2nd year player at safety and had the starters in, we might not be having this conversation. Even if Byrd was here, and injured yet again, you still would have seen Graham and Duke on the backside.


the fact is both players are worlds better than what is there now. Despite your apparent insistence that Byrd is Tavares Tillman Jr and that Levitre is the second coming of Bennie Anderson bother were damn good players. Byrd, in fact, was one of the top safeties in the NFL with an eye for the ball and a guy that made plays.

I would hope Levitre would be better than a fifth round rookie, and Byrd better than another mid-rounder in his first real game action. That doesn't make either worth keeping around for elite money.


And while both were certainly overpaid, that is what happens in FA. Neither was overpaid any more than Mario Williams or Chris Williams. The problem is that there was not the foresight to make a stringer attempt to sign them for less than what they got in the market.


You don't know that, at all.


Clearly teams can't sign all of their UFAs. But it is a good idea to sign your better ones. I would much rather see Levitre here than Chris Williams.

An average or little bit above average player on a ****ty team doesn't make them worth elite money, it just proves how bereft of talent the roster is.

[Dr. Lecter]

The plan with Levitre might have been expecting to keep Rhinehart...he and Urbik would've made a decent pair last season, and maybe this. The plan at safety was AW and Searcy, with two rookies drafted (Meeks and DW). The foresight was there. If we hadn't played NE with a CB and limited experienced 2nd year player at safety and had the starters in, we might not be having this conversation. Even if Byrd was here, and injured yet again, you still would have seen Graham and Duke on the backside.

Keeping Rhinehart would not have been that hard. He signed a one year deal with San Diego.

And they had Searcy and knew he was **** in coverage. That is a crappy plan.




I would hope Levitre would be better than a fifth round rookie, and Byrd better than another mid-rounder in his first real game action. That doesn't make either worth keeping around for elite money.

It depends on your definition of elite money. And since they have the space every year, why not?


You don't know that, at all.

At least in Levitre's case, yes I do.


An average or little bit above average player on a ****ty team doesn't make them worth elite money, it just proves how bereft of talent the roster is.

Byrd is well above average.

The point is they let guys like that go and give Chris Williams big money.

I have said for years this team is not cheap. They just spend money poorly. We can go back to the Kelsay deals if we want. But it's a trait of this organization,

[Mace]

For the sake of my angst, I'd just say they should have thrown money at Levitre, and D'Alessandris, and stuck with having Pears, being average as the worst problem that wasn't so terrible on a splendidly performing o-line.

The last time we had a guard issue was when Ruben Brown (fading) left after 2004, and we went through Pucillo, Tucker, Anderson, Villareal, Gandy, Dockery, Butler (who wasn't half bad), for 4 years trying to find some (2 of them being desperation converted tackles) though everyone always hollers guards are a dime a dozen.

Oh it makes me double over in pain, you have a good well coached line, leave it alone, just don't touch it, let it be.