Balls & Goats

[casdhf]

Apparently no one started this?

Balls: Watkins, Orton, Leodis

Goats: OL ... all of them. Did KW show up today?

[Dr. Lecter]

Hughes and Dareus get a game ball too. Both were beasts and dominated.

As well as he has played this year, Bradham was off yesterday. Too many missed tackles

Robey was horrible (again) too

[jimmifli]

Aaron Williams struggled. Bradham's had better games.

But four turnovers and the D still only gave up 16. They played great as a unit and are the reason Orton was only down by 6 in the 4th.

[Fletch]

Hughes and Dareus get a game ball too. Both were beasts and dominated.



Apparently you missed the fact that Minnesota posted their second best rushing game of the season without Peterson and averaged 5.4 yards per carry against this "elite D."

If we continue to allow that then we won't win another game since we won't see another QB anywhere as close to as bad as Bridgewater is right now.

[HHURRICANE]

Aaron Williams struggled. Bradham's had better games.

But four turnovers and the D still only gave up 16. They played great as a unit and are the reason Orton was only down by 6 in the 4th.

The Vikings were one shoe string tackle away from going the distance mulitple times in their running game.

With that said The Bills D is keeping us in games. You hold a team to 16 points you should win the game.

There is alot of hate on this defense but at some point you have to give them some credit. Our secondary is having problems but as a whole they aren't the problem.

[jimmifli]

Also, Mario Williams (hi coastal) keeps contain on his side as well as any DE in the NFL. They tried to move the pocket and bootleg Teddy a few times and Mario diagnosed and blew it up instantly. He was a big reason Teddy had to stay in the non-existent pocket and get rekt by Hughes and Dareus all game.

[Dr. Lecter]

Apparently you missed the fact that Minnesota posted their second best rushing game of the season without Peterson and averaged 5.4 yards per carry against this "elite D."

If we continue to allow that then we won't win another game since we won't see another QB anywhere as close to as bad as Bridgewater is right now.

Apparently you missed the dominance they had in pressuring Bridgewater all day and knocking him on his countless times. Or the number of points given up by the defense in this game

This was the first bad performance by the rush D all year. The first time they gave up over 100 yards and a lot of that was on missed tackles by guys like Bradham and the DBs coming up on the play.

I think I'll base the rush defense more on 5 other games than one.

[Dr. Lecter]

The Vikings were one shoe string tackle away from going the distance mulitple times in their running game.

With that said The Bills D is keeping us in games. You hold a team to 16 points you should win the game.

There is alot of hate on this defense but at some point you have to give them some credit. Our secondary is having problems but as a whole they aren't the problem.

I don't think there is that much hate.

Certainly a few posters ***** about the defense, but let's face it - we listen to them and we also think Watkins sucks.

[The last buffalo fan]

We suck, that's it!

Here is to a 4-12 record, go Pats!

[Historian]

Balls:

Leodis He looked like Bob Chandler on the one INT.
Sammy
Hughes
Carpenter (sorry, it was his kick that won the game, lol.

Honorable mention to Chandler. Two good games in a row.

[trapezeus]

lecter, i actually am short of making chandler a goat. on that last drive, before the 24 yard 4th down play, he dropped an easier pass. he is too streaky to be our best TE. Gragg seems to catch everything his way and he hasn't fumbled.

chandler is the romo of TE. Good enough statistically, but totally unreliable in clutch situations on a regular basis. maybe they have big plays in big moments, but chances are they will fail on an ever grander scale due to the lack of consistency.

[Dr. Lecter]

Did you just confuse me with the Historian?

He is lucky to be so blessed!

[Topas]

I think there should not be any blame going to the defense. After all our O pretty much handed the ball over to the Vikes about every second drive. Yes, we got a few rushing yards against us, but holding them to 16 points when our O produced turnovers like there is no tomorrow, is a great effort in my book.

[trapezeus]

Did you just confuse me with the Historian?

He is lucky to be so blessed!

yes i did. now i've started something

[Forward_Lateral]

Aaron Williams looked afraid to touch anyone. If his injury is going to prevent him from tackling people, he needs to be on the bench. He looked like a scared kitten.

[casdhf]

lecter, i actually am short of making chandler a goat. on that last drive, before the 24 yard 4th down play, he dropped an easier pass. he is too streaky to be our best TE. Gragg seems to catch everything his way and he hasn't fumbled.

chandler is the romo of TE. Good enough statistically, but totally unreliable in clutch situations on a regular basis. maybe they have big plays in big moments, but chances are they will fail on an ever grander scale due to the lack of consistency. you wanna call him a goat after a 4th and 20 conversion? That is pretty clutch ...

[OpIv37]

Woods gets a goat. Practically invisible except for a fumble.

Come to think of it, he's been invisible all season.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Balls:

Sammy Sidewinder Watkins
The DL, great penetration all game Long
Leodis McKelvin

Goats:
Orton, we lost the Pats game because of him and we will lose future games because of his inability to hold onto the ball
The San Fransisco Giants, Forgive me I'm a Royals fan I had to.
Hackett: Another sleeper of a game

[swiper]

Apparently you missed the fact that Minnesota posted their second best rushing game of the season without Peterson and averaged 5.4 yards per carry against this "elite D."

If we continue to allow that then we won't win another game since we won't see another QB anywhere as close to as bad as Bridgewater is right now.

They won. You need to know "bend don't break" when you see it.

[Fletch]

The Vikings were one shoe string tackle away from going the distance mulitple times in their running game.

With that said The Bills D is keeping us in games. You hold a team to 16 points you should win the game.

There is alot of hate on this defense but at some point you have to give them some credit. Our secondary is having problems but as a whole they aren't the problem.

In four of their last five games they've scored 7, 9, 10, and 3 points. Holding them to 16 while allowing 158 yards rushing against a RB you've never heard of is hardly validating that this defense is good.

[Fletch]

Also, Mario Williams (hi coastal) keeps contain on his side as well as any DE in the NFL. They tried to move the pocket and bootleg Teddy a few times and Mario diagnosed and blew it up instantly. He was a big reason Teddy had to stay in the non-existent pocket and get rekt by Hughes and Dareus all game.

That's funny. You sure about that? Last season he ranked as the worst of our defensive linemen by PFF or FO, one of the two, in doing that very thing.

[Fletch]

Apparently you missed the dominance they had in pressuring Bridgewater all day and knocking him on his countless times. Or the number of points given up by the defense in this game

LMAO

No homerism there or anything.

See my previous post on how many points the Vikes had scored before this.

Bridgewater, LOL. OK

[Fletch]

Balls:

The DL, great penetration all game Long


Since when does a DL get credit for allowing 58 yards to a rushing attack led by a no-name RB that averated 5.4 ypc?

[Dr. Lecter]

In four of their last five games they've scored 7, 9, 10, and 3 points. Holding them to 16 while allowing 158 yards rushing against a RB you've never heard of is hardly validating that this defense is good.


No, their season long numbers validate that it is good

[Dr. Lecter]

LMAO

No homerism there or anything.

See my previous post on how many points the Vikes had scored before this.

Bridgewater, LOL. OK

None at all.

You can call me a homer all you want.

I don't think the people that read this place regularly and have been doing so longer than you would call me a homer.

But saying anything positive is being a homer, eh?

And you wonder why people don't kiss your ass.....

[Dr. Lecter]

That's funny. You sure about that? Last season he ranked as the worst of our defensive linemen by PFF or FO, one of the two, in doing that very thing.

And this year he is one of the best

[trapezeus]

you wanna call him a goat after a 4th and 20 conversion? That is pretty clutch ...

You trust that reliably? I don't. That why he's romo-like. Big sometimes but so frustrating others.

[TacklingDummy]

Ball: Vikings play calling, allowing the Bills to stay in it.

Goats: All of them, almost losing to the Vikings.

[feldspar]

Anybody that actually wants to give Orton a goat in this game is completely out of their minds. The guy drove the team down the field over 100 yards net on that final drive. Every single play on that drive was a pass play. Orton gets the game ball. The real goats are the humps that were calling for Orton to be pulled in favor of EJ Manuel when things weren't looking so good. Orton is better than EJ, period. Good lord, Orton was a pillar on that drive. Didn't trip. That's what matters. Some will lead you to believe that every sack is Orton's fault...not so. He made mistakes but came through in the clutch.

Watkins had nine catches, each one resulting in a first down...nine catches for 122 yards and both of the Bills touchdowns in this game, including 3 passes caught for 39 yards on the final drive. Another goat goes to certain douchebags that are holding off on their criticism of Watkins this week, waiting and hoping that he does poorly soon so certain threads can be bumped or otherwise revisited. "I told you so." What kind of douchebags are these. I think most of us know.

These are the two players of the game. Hughes and Dareus. Cannot diss McKelvin or Chandler, either. I loved Hogan for a minute there.

[Fletch]

And this year he is one of the best

Link?

[Fletch]

No, their season long numbers validate that it is good

Your reference wasn't to the season, it was to that particular game. Unless we've played Bridgewater seven times.


http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Dr. Lecter http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=4010131#post4010131)

Apparently you missed the dominance they had in pressuring Bridgewater all day and knocking him on his countless times. Or the number of points given up by the defense in this game


Nice attempt at backtracking though, and fantastic effort at ignoring it all.

[Dr. Lecter]

Your reference wasn't to the season, it was to that particular game. Unless we've played Bridgewater seven times.


I talked about their pass rush actually.
Which you ignored. Probably because it does not make them sound like they sucked. And anything that is not 100% negative, even if it is not, hurts your little internet gimmick



Nice attempt at backtracking though, and fantastic effort at ignoring it all.

That's funny.

The run defense was not good Sunday. I never said otherwise.

But it has been good all year.
And at the end of the day, the defense allowed 16 points even after 4 turnovers by the offense and that really is not that bad
But you won't even admit that.
The difference is that I will look at things honestly without a pre-determined conclusion.

[Fletch]

None at all.

You can call me a homer all you want.

I don't think the people that read this place regularly and have been doing so longer than you would call me a homer.

But saying anything positive is being a homer, eh?

And you wonder why people don't kiss your ass.....

I've never asked nor wanted anyone to kiss my ass. It would be nice however not to be met with a barrage of childish bull**** everytime early in the season myself and others attempt to engage each other, with other VOLUNTARILY jumping in and (as trapezeus put it) "urinating" all over the place.

While your on the topic though, if anyone's ass should be kissed, maybe it's the asses of the handful of posters here like OP, Tackledummy, coastal, etc. that actually seem to know what they're talking about instead of those whose opinions change with the possession of the football in every game. Literally in the game-day threads. Hell, even play to play sometimes. It's both hilarious and insane.

Most of our positions haven't changed much if at all since the beginning of the season. That should clue you in.

Still, no one wants their ass kissed, but how about the people that throw the term "troll" around like it's the word "the" and slander and malign the others giving it a vacation for the rest of the season since most of them, you in there too, couldn't possibly be a whole lot more off.

Elite D: FAIL
Best WRs in the NFL: FAIL
Elite RBs: FAIL
Best DL in the NFL: Only when they play teams featuring 2nd and 3rd string RBs or QBs that suck.
Top notch DBs that won't miss Byrd: FAIL
Mike Williams over Stevie Johnson: FAIL
Manuel: LOL
Scwhartz: Below average passing defense
Marrone: LOL

This has become an annual exercise, kinda like an extended holiday. 3/4 of this forum stirs up malcontent among its members, then when they're proven wrong over all the malcontent that they've created based on insisting that they're right, they piss all over everyone once they're wrong because what, oh, I don't know, but it seems like they have issues going back to childhood with being wrong after having beaten everyone over the head about how right they are.

Pretty much sums up the place.

[Dr. Lecter]

Link?

It was tweeted last week. I don't have a premium account

Do you have a link to your claim that he was one of the worst?

[Forward_Lateral]

Woods gets a goat. Practically invisible except for a fumble.

Come to think of it, he's been invisible all season.

He's the team's best blocking WR, by far. He's had 2 very productive games so far, receiving wise. He hasn't been invisible, you just haven't been watching.

[Dr. Lecter]

I've never asked nor wanted anyone to kiss my ass. It would be nice however not to be met with a barrage of childish bull**** everytime early in the season myself and others attempt to engage each other, with other VOLUNTARILY jumping in and (as trapezeus put it) "urinating" all over the place.

Bull crap.

I have tried several times to try and discuss things rationally with you only to be jumped on. And Trap has done that as well. So get over yourself. You've been shown several examples of it.


While your on the topic though, if anyone's ass should be kissed, maybe it's the asses of the handful of posters here like OP, Tackledummy, coastal, etc. that actually seem to know what they're talking about instead of those whose opinions change with the possession of the football in every game. Literally in the game-day threads. Hell, even play to play sometimes. It's both hilarious and insane.



The difference with you and people like Op and Coastal is that they are willing to change their minds and give credit when players play well. And yes - people are emotional and change their minds.


Most of our positions haven't changed much if at all since the beginning of the season. That should clue you in.


It does. Although I would not say that about Op and Coastal. Who are willing to evaluate the team for how they are playing.


Still, no one wants their ass kissed, but how about the people that throw the term "troll" around like it's the word "the" and slander and malign the others giving it a vacation for the rest of the season since most of them, you in there too, couldn't possibly be a whole lot more off.

Elite D: FAIL
Best WRs in the NFL: FAIL
Elite RBs: FAIL
Best DL in the NFL: Only when they play teams featuring 2nd and 3rd string RBs or QBs that suck.
Top notch DBs that won't miss Byrd: FAIL
Mike Williams over Stevie Johnson: FAIL
Manuel: LOL
Scwhartz: Below average passing defense
Marrone: LOL



The defense is pretty damn good - I know you like to ignore the stats thrown out that aren't negative. But it's true.

And I don't recall anybody saying they had the best WRs in the NFL. Can you link that for me?

And yes - losing Byrd was dumb. I've said that several times as well.

The passing defense is just about average - 19th in the NFL too.

This has become an annual exercise, kinda like an extended holiday. 3/4 of this forum stirs up malcontent among its members, then when they're proven wrong over all the malcontent that they've created based on insisting that they're right, they piss all over everyone once they're wrong because what, oh, I don't know, but it seems like they have issues going back to childhood with being wrong after having beaten everyone over the head about how right they are.

Pretty much sums up the place.

You don't get it, do you? And I doubt you ever will.

It's not just about right or wrong.

The fact is many people here have strong debates with people like Coastal and Op. And they don't have issues with them.

You, on the other hand, appear to not to have an ounce of respect for anybody else except yourself.

Try to show at least a little bit when discussing things. Maybe, once in awhile, acknowledge that somebody actually made a good point when discussing things with you. Maybe even not talk down to people.

Whether you are aware of it or not, there are other people here who have watched a lot of football and watched a lot of Bills football. Some of them actually do know something about the game too.

Not all of us think all is well with the team. hell, many of us (myself included) still think this team has a long way to go.

But many of us also know that there are good things on this team too. And while we are willing to discuss the bad on this team we are also willing to discuss the good on the team

The fact is they are 4-3 after 7 games, which is better than I thought they would be. I expected a 6 win season. But they look like they could be a 8 win team now. Of course it's the Bills and they could end up 4-12. But right now they are exceeding my expectations and I would guess yours.

In the end, if you at least pretend to respect others (or actually respect them) and accept that we discuss things here and we don't all blindly agree it will go a long way.

After about 15 years of message boarding, I've learned that.

[OpIv37]

He's the team's best blocking WR, by far. He's had 2 very productive games so far, receiving wise. He hasn't been invisible, you just haven't been watching.

I've watched every game. Blocking is nice but it's not a WR's main responsibility and it does NOT make up for fumbling away a first down. And 2 productive games out of 7 so far? Come on. That's invisible by my standards.

Then again, defending guys like that is par for the course around here, going back at least to Schobel. Schobel, Remersma, Whitner, Chandler, Spiller, Woods- people remember the two good games but always forget about the 3 or 4 in between where their guy didn't show up.

[Forward_Lateral]

I've watched every game. Blocking is nice but it's not a WR's main responsibility and it does NOT make up for fumbling away a first down. And 2 productive games out of 7 so far? Come on. That's invisible by my standards.

Then again, defending guys like that is par for the course around here, going back at least to Schobel. Schobel, Remersma, Whitner, Chandler, Spiller, Woods- people remember the two good games but always forget about the 3 or 4 in between where their guy didn't show up.

I wasn't defending him. He hasn't been invisible. He's thrown several key blocks. You could argue that all of the WRs were invisible until Orton took over as QB.

Relax, for **** sakes. They won yesterday. Save your negativity for when it's necessary.

[OpIv37]

I wasn't defending him. He hasn't been invisible. He's thrown several key blocks. You could argue that all of the WRs were invisible until Orton took over as QB.

Relax, for **** sakes. They won yesterday. Save your negativity for when it's necessary.

It's a balls/goats thread. Everyone else already mentioned all my other choices before I got here.

And a WR who only blocks (and fumbles) is invisible.

[chernobylwraiths]

I don't believe Wood's fumble should have been called a fumble.

Balls: Watkins, Darreus, Hughes

Goats: our kickoff specialist, rush defense, offensive line

almost goat: Orton, had some nice throws and last drive brought him from that designation. If Bills lose that game, he is on everyone's list as goat. Tell me I'm wrong about that and I'll tell you you're a liar. Fumble, interception and held the ball way too long several times.

Chandler had that one really bad drop which he redeemed himself for with the next catch.

Spiller for being caught from behind.

Just kidding.

Mostly.

[bdutton]

lecter, i actually am short of making chandler a goat. on that last drive, before the 24 yard 4th down play, he dropped an easier pass. he is too streaky to be our best TE. Gragg seems to catch everything his way and he hasn't fumbled.

chandler is the romo of TE. Good enough statistically, but totally unreliable in clutch situations on a regular basis. maybe they have big plays in big moments, but chances are they will fail on an ever grander scale due to the lack of consistency.

I never understood the hate for Chandler. He's a very good TE. I'd say he's a top 10 TE right now. He's shown steady improvement over the course of his career and does so with a revolving door of QB's and OC's.

He's currently ranked 14th in yards this year and 2nd in catches over 20 yards.

[trapezeus]

I've watched every game. Blocking is nice but it's not a WR's main responsibility and it does NOT make up for fumbling away a first down. And 2 productive games out of 7 so far? Come on. That's invisible by my standards.

Then again, defending guys like that is par for the course around here, going back at least to Schobel. Schobel, Remersma, Whitner, Chandler, Spiller, Woods- people remember the two good games but always forget about the 3 or 4 in between where their guy didn't show up.

ball distribution is much higher now with orton targeting 9 receivers in each of games as starter. so that may make him more invisble. Where he was hte most targeted while EJ played, he's getting less looks. except in NE game where he got 10 from the SW decoy strategy. and he had 7 catches for 78 yards and a TD.

i'll give you that his season play is mostly average, but the QB play hasn't been excellent and he hasn't been a drop machine.

[OpIv37]

I never understood the hate for Chandler. He's a very good TE. I'd say he's a top 10 TE right now. He's shown steady improvement over the course of his career and does so with a revolving door of QB's and OC's.

He's currently ranked 14th in yards this year and 2nd in catches over 20 yards.

He had the fumble in the Toronto game last year. He had he big drop in the final drive on Sunday (granted, he made up for it). Traditionally he's been good in the red zone but only average in the rest of the field, and he's average at best as a blocker. He's just not the reliable outlet that we need him to be.

[Forward_Lateral]

It's a balls/goats thread. Everyone else already mentioned all my other choices before I got here.

And a WR who only blocks (and fumbles) is invisible.

He fumbled because he had his head nearly twisted off.

[OpIv37]

He fumbled because he had his head nearly twisted off.

And? It's the NFL. Guys routinely get trucked by 250 lb LB's running full speed and don't fumble.

Why do people insist on defending guys who **** up and hurt the team?

[trapezeus]

i'm not saying chandler is terrible, i'm just saying he's unreliable. like Stevie. IF the watkins pass was thrown stevie's way, you'd have held your breath. When you saw watkins open and the throw his way, you were fine with it.

similarly, you never know what chandler you can get. am i saying let's sacrifice a high pick just to get more competition? no. i just htink if there is a TE that's highly rated in the draft, you need to keep looking to upgrade.

lastly gragg catches what's thrown his way. no fumbles yet. no big injuries yet. he's getting mroe time on the field. this is good for team's diversity in a position.