Grantland says Sammy Watkins is pretty good

[trapezeus]

Here fletchy fletchy!

More articles telling you that you are wrong

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-cornerback-destroying-sammy-watkins-and-the-nfls-all-rookie-team-so-far/

[HAMMER]

But, but, but.........

[Fletch]

Here fletchy fletchy!

More articles telling you that you are wrong

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-cornerback-destroying-sammy-watkins-and-the-nfls-all-rookie-team-so-far/

Speaking of douche bags, you're right on cue.

Wrong about what might I ask?

Wrong that Watkins wasn't worth next year's 1st and 4th, or that Watkin isn't worth Benjamin, a 1st, and a 4th next year?

I don't think so homey.

I think if you asked anyone that didn't have cement in their head whether they'd rather have Watkins or Benjamin and a 1st and 4th next year, that 90-some percent would take Benjamin and the 1st and 4th.

And Robert Mays? Really?

You may want to vet your sources a little bit better you narcissistic jackass.

Here's what he said about us three weeks ago;

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/buffalo-wild-things-why-the-bills-can-win-the-afc-east/

I don't think that there's anyone alive that will agree with that, again, not anyone that doesn't have a head filled with concrete like you that is.

Otherwise, read his titles, he's the master of stating the obvious. No wonder you like him. I notice that this piece didn't come out in weeks 1-6.

LOL

[Fletch]

But, but, but.........

You too. Hardly anything you've stated would occur that's different from what my assessments have been have come to pass.

[Fletch]

By the way, I said the same **** about Spiller and worse and I was hammered for years. Alone on an island for years, yet in the end game, and as long as you seem to be all wrapped up about pointing out how wrong I always am, there wasn't anyone more accurate about him than me. No one even close.

[YardRat]

I like the kid...a lot more as every week passes. Whether he was worth the picks or not will depend how the team does over the next couple of seasons.

[Buffalogic]

Fletch is the first person ever to make my ignore list. Just too much incoherant blathering.

Sammy Watkins obviously is an amazing talent. You really have to be reaching deep down in your idiocy bucket to come up with anything negative about him as a player.

[HAMMER]

Talk about cement for brains. 7 games in and most everyone is raving about the guy.....except Felch. He HAS to be right so he will go to any length to justify his blathering. Watkins route running is already excellent, but Felch said he can't do that, "all he can do is catch the ball in the flat and RAC". WRONG Felch, WRONG. The jury is, and will be out for a couple years as far as the price we paid, but there is no doubt Watkins is already special.

[Fletch]

Talk about cement for brains. 7 games in and most everyone is raving about the guy.....except Felch. He HAS to be right so he will go to any length to justify his blathering. Watkins route running is already excellent, but Felch said he can't do that, "all he can do is catch the ball in the flat and RAC". WRONG Felch, WRONG. The jury is, and will be out for a couple years as far as the price we paid, but there is no doubt Watkins is already special.

Yes, cement for brains.

Only someone with cement for brains would rather have a WR that has 35 catches for 433 yards, 12.4 yards-per-catch, and 4 TDs against Miami, Minnesota, and Houston, over one that has 34 catches for 477 yards, 14.0 yards-per-catch, and 5 TDs, including TDs against Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cincinnati, and Green Bay and one that's been much more consistent, plus a 1st round and 4th round pick next season.

And think before you post your next cement-headed comment about Newton throwing the ball since two of Benjamin's 5 TDs have been from Anderson and Newton's not having the best season anyway. A lot of people are on him over it.

You sure you don't work for our front office? They have cement for brains too.

- - - Updated - - -


Fletch is the first person ever to make my ignore list.

Thank you

[lavuuk153]

Watkins is a beast...but the extra 1st was a steep price to pay. It's really as simple as that. If the trade was a 1st and a 2nd/4th next year, I'd be all in. Giving up a 1st for a non QB is not something I would recommend. At the very least, Watkins looks like an elite talent that can have a huge impact with a slightly below average QB. At the end of the day, with the game on the line, the play was to Watkins, Orton didn't look anywhere else, and Watkins easily got open. Comparing Watkins to Spiller is silly IMO because Watkins has shown as much upside this year as Spiller has in his career...and I wouldn't mind keeping Spiller around at a decent price and with a OC who knows how to utilize him.

[ICRockets]

Anyone know why Fletch keeps adding a 2015 4th rounder to the Watkins trade?

EDIT: Ah, I double checked. For some reason I thought the 4th we gave up was this year's, not next.

[Night Train]

Back to topic.

Watkins is better than pretty good. We now know he can be the main reason we win some close football games.

[k-oneputt]

Why are some even surprised he is good ? He was dynamite in college. All he needed was a half way decent qb who could get him the ball. He has all the skills. Big, fast, good hands, breaks tackles, strong, runs good routes, will go over the middle, fearless, and he is young and will get even better as long as he has a qb with him.

He will be a top-5 wr in the NFL.

[better days]

Here fletchy fletchy!

More articles telling you that you are wrong

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-cornerback-destroying-sammy-watkins-and-the-nfls-all-rookie-team-so-far/

Might as well give it up trap.

I don't think fletch is willing to concede the Bills are staying put in Buffalo & not moving to Toronto yet.

[DraftBoy]

He's been really good this year, only thing I've seen is some route development issues with his tree and some struggles in press but he's beaten that a number of times as well. His catch radius is absolutely outstanding.

[don137]

I have season tickets to the Panthers and life long Bills fan. While Benjamin is a great talent Watkins is something special. KB gets the dropsies. He is big and an awesome target for a first down or in t he red zone but he isn't much for running after the catch. He pretty much gets tackled every time right after getting catching the ball. All things considered I think Watkins career will far exceed KB.

[trapezeus]

Oh, so when we cited that watkins struggled to put up numbers with a run first offense and was still close to Benjamin, that was just blatantly wrong? And now that he has middling QB play and on pace to 1000 yards and clearly better than when not getting the ball, we'll dismiss that?

The price has been paid. We discussed it while you were telling us the bills would move out of buffalo

Just a time for a "I'm sorry sometimes im wrong" is all that you need to get back on track. If you can't do that, go back to whatever board you came from. Watkins is clearly a reliable WR we haven't had in years. And a poster who goes to the Panther games says he sees the dropsies with Benjamin. But I guess we'll dismiss that too like how all geniuses do.

We would all like to thank you for being the only person to have issues with spiller. You were a genius to see that. No one else here did. I guess the system just autofilled the "spiller isn't used correctly and that was a luxury pick" threads

[Fletch]

Watkins is a beast...but the extra 1st was a steep price to pay. It's really as simple as that. If the trade was a 1st and a 2nd/4th next year, I'd be all in. Giving up a 1st for a non QB is not something I would recommend. At the very least, Watkins looks like an elite talent that can have a huge impact with a slightly below average QB. At the end of the day, with the game on the line, the play was to Watkins, Orton didn't look anywhere else, and Watkins easily got open. Comparing Watkins to Spiller is silly IMO because Watkins has shown as much upside this year as Spiller has in his career...and I wouldn't mind keeping Spiller around at a decent price and with a OC who knows how to utilize him.

That's a very fair assessment. Unlike Spiller he's showing something immediately in his rookie season, which was to be expected. We expected it with Spiller too but he just didn't deliver.

Hammer's notion that a WR that's presently ranked 29th in ypg, in an 11-way tie for 15th in TDs, and 58th in ypc is "special" is way too premature and quite frankly, ridiculous.

Whether he becomes special or simply a good WR, as I think will be the case based on what we now know, remains to be seen. I expect Watkins to end up putting up numbers comparable to Moulds or maybe even Harvin depending upon how he develops.

Right now there's way too much hoopla over his performance in one game though, and it was Minnesota in Buffalo, not exactly the AFCCG here. When he starts putting up games like that every other week and not tanking in between then we can start a discussion about potential future greatness or his maybe being "special." But just because a bunch of draftniks claim that he's special means nothing at this point. They've been saying that Spiller's special for years. If that's what "special" is then we need to redefine the term.

Right now the trend seems to be one particular receiver stepping up with the rest not doing much and the TEs and RBs doing the rest of the receiving work. Hogan a middling game though. Williams has been all but invisible. In the last game, Pats, it was Woods, with Hogan again posting good games. Watkins did little. Detroit was Watkins, Houston was Williams, SD no WRs had a good game, Miami was Watkins, and Chicago was Woods.

My point there is that this week it may very well be Woods again with none of the others doing much of anything. Or maybe Hogan.

The team's gotta figure out how to get two or three WRs involved at the same time. I'm curious if things would be different if Stevie were here instead of Williams whose heading for a 300-yard season.

[Fletch]

Back to topic.

Watkins is better than pretty good. We now know he can be the main reason we win some close football games.

He is pretty good. But special? Way too early to be crowning him that.

Also, Minnesota? I'm not disagreeing necessarily, but he'll need to do that against some better teams before it starts to take on more meaning, wouldn't you say?

Keep in mind that all that everyone talked about was how anytime he touched the ball he was a threat. A 12.4 yards-per-catch really doesn't support that. Neither does being buried in the yards-after-catch stats.

[Fletch]

Why are some even surprised he is good ? He was dynamite in college. All he needed was a half way decent qb who could get him the ball. He has all the skills. Big, fast, good hands, breaks tackles, strong, runs good routes, will go over the middle, fearless, and he is young and will get even better as long as he has a qb with him.

He will be a top-5 wr in the NFL.

Look at his collegiate game stats in detail and the types of teams that he put up his best games against k.

What you'll note is that he didn't put up very many good games against top defensive teams and generally had a very low ypr in them too. I'm not sure that supports what you just said. Just throwing that out there. You may want to temper your optimism to avoid potential disappointment is all I'm saying.

A few of his rookie peers, including Benjamin who leads the league for rookies right now and is on pace for well over 1,000 yards as a rookie, and who was on FSU, had much better games against better Ds in college. He also had much better bigger game experience.

I'd love to have him instead and our two picks back.

[trapezeus]

regardless of the price, we actually have a WR where teams have to account for him and even when they do he can catch the ball. He also has been playing hurt as evidenced by his routine of going to the ground or out of bounds to avoid a hit.

He isn't another long line of under talented guys who happens to be our #1. He would be any team's number 1 where they didn't have an established starter.

would you have felt comfortable with Stevie being targeted for that TD with 1 second left? He was our #1. he's currently a #3 on a good team.

and where you are looking for a game changing WR, he is still a rookie. even your precious benjamin gets this benefit. what you expect from a rookie WR is to be decent. Eric moulds first two years had 275-300 yards in receptions each yearas he learned the system. He had 2 TDs. But i guess his career of having almost 10000 yards was meaningless because he didn't meet fletch's stat's only view on the world.

watkins catches anything remotely close to him and about 50% of the things no one else would even touch.

Find me another wr that reliable. if he stays at his pace, we know we have a #1 wr and can go address other things. if we had benjamin, we would still be wondering if we can make him better by having another #1a/b WR to pair him with.

[Fletch]

regardless of the price, we actually have a WR where teams have to account for him and even when they do he can catch the ball. He also has been playing hurt as evidenced by his routine of going to the ground or out of bounds to avoid a hit.

He isn't another long line of under talented guys who happens to be our #1. He would be any team's number 1 where they didn't have an established starter.

would you have felt comfortable with Stevie being targeted for that TD with 1 second left? He was our #1. he's currently a #3 on a good team.

and where you are looking for a game changing WR, he is still a rookie. even your precious benjamin gets this benefit. what you expect from a rookie WR is to be decent. Eric moulds first two years had 275-300 yards in receptions each yearas he learned the system. He had 2 TDs. But i guess his career of having almost 10000 yards was meaningless because he didn't meet fletch's stat's only view on the world.

watkins catches anything remotely close to him and about 50% of the things no one else would even touch.

Find me another wr that reliable. if he stays at his pace, we know we have a #1 wr and can go address other things. if we had benjamin, we would still be wondering if we can make him better by having another #1a/b WR to pair him with.

Great post trap, thanks!

I disagree on Benjamin. I saw him play at FSU and have gone out of my way to watch him some at Carolina. He makes the catches too.

I also still say that this notion that Watkins is the kind of WR that has to be accounted for, above and beyond the norm, is premature. We'll see as things progress. He's had two great games, one good game, and hasn't done much in four others. It's not like he's become a regular at doing this and I'd like to see it against some teams and Ds besides Chicago and Minnesota as well.

Benjamin is 6'5" compared to Watkins 6'1" and 30 lbs. lighter. Benjamin is more that mold of those WRs that you say need to be accounted for and his collegiate accolades were nothing to laugh at and he posted better games against their tougher competition. It has nothing to do with "my precious Benjamin." If Benjamin were on our team you'd all be switching stances.

But again, would it have been better to have had our 1st and 4th's next season and Benjamin, or Watkins?

Time will tell but right now Benjamin's the better NFL WR both visually, in terms of consistency, as well as statistically. He's a huge RZ target, the kind that everyone said Williams was, but Benjamin's actually playing that way.

[casdhf]

If we end up with a pick in the 20s, as currently projected, I would say the trade would be worth it. Watkins arguably took over the final drive against the Vikings and was a real difference maker vs the Dolphins. There are two wins that may not have happened with Stevie as our 1.

[casdhf]

Also, out of the 10 players on that list, two of them played ball at UB, and one is a current Bill.

Go Buffalo :thurm:

[better days]

Look at his collegiate game stats in detail and the types of teams that he put up his best games against k.

What you'll note is that he didn't put up very many good games against top defensive teams and generally had a very low ypr in them too. I'm not sure that supports what you just said. Just throwing that out there. You may want to temper your optimism to avoid potential disappointment is all I'm saying.

A few of his rookie peers, including Benjamin who leads the league for rookies right now and is on pace for well over 1,000 yards as a rookie, and who was on FSU, had much better games against better Ds in college. He also had much better bigger game experience.

I'd love to have him instead and our two picks back.

When you discuss receivers you never take the QB into consideration.

Of course a receiver that plays with a GOOD QB is going to put up better numbers than a receiver playing with a mediocre QB.

Watkins College QB was mediocre. And EJ & Kyle are mediocre as well.

If Watkins had Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers as his QB, he would have set records already.

[Fletch]

When you discuss receivers you never take the QB into consideration.

Another lie.

[better days]

Another lie.

Not a lie. Show me a post where you said the QB played an important role in a receivers numbers & I will apologize for being wrong.

[billser]

I can't believe you still compare Benjamin to Watkins. Watkins was our day one number 1. Watkins got revis treatment and it was obvious he was going to get the last ball against Carolina. That's special. It's actually unreal that a 21 yr has been able to carry that load, go compare him to other rookie starters, find me one who was thrown in as no. 1 with that much pressure from day 1 and produced.

How you can admit that Benjamin has caught balls from Derek Anderson and continue to compare them is beyond me. I've watched all his games, most of his catches are garbage time. You're comparing a project who's caught garbage Tds to a no. 1 21 yr old who gets gameplanned against who has single handedly already won games for us. If anything BEnjamin hasn't transitioned well, he can't get an inch of separation.

I know, or am hoping, you realize all this and are simply saying things in desperation to back up prior comments. Give it up.

[casdhf]

Talking about College stats is ******ed. Lets go back to High School huh? Danny Wuerffle should be in the hall of fame.

[k-oneputt]

I really don't know where you are coming from Fletch. The kid dominated in college and while always getting special notice from opposing defense's.

The last game I watched him in was when he almost single handidly beat the crap out of Ohio St. in their bowl.

[trapezeus]

i wasn't sold on the trade up at the time, but seeing how it's playing out, it is nice to have a bonafide star at a position than a work in process thatyou hope to god outperforms and plays at a higher level.

i also think the watkins is playing injured as he has said and shown in his tapes an ability to thrive on contact. i believe that's largely the reason the bills have stayed away from his WR screens that he excells at. the other part is that hacket doesn't seem to have a plan. he just likes calling plays in.

[Albany,n.y.]

Sometimes you have to Watch the games & get your head out of the stat sheet to understand what's going on on the field. That's why the ones watching the games know Watkins is special. If you don't, you're either not watching the games or just don't get it.
If stats were so important, there wouldn't be film review. Meetings would consist of the coaches handing out stat sheets and everyone would go home 10 minutes after getting there. The NFL is a little more complicated than that. Some people who think the stats tell everything don't understand the NFL.

[Albany,n.y.]

The real irony of the Benjamin vs Watkins argument is that the 2nd best receiver in the draft wasn't Benjamin, it was Odell Beckham Jr. Unfortunately, he missed the 1st few games of the season, so Stat Boys don't have him on their radar, because his games so far don't get him on the national stat sheets.
If Stat Boy was making the case the Bills should have stayed where they were & drafted Beckham, he'd have a lot more credibility.

[wolfpack]

The real irony of the Benjamin vs Watkins argument is that the 2nd best receiver in the draft wasn't Benjamin, it was Odell Beckham Jr. Unfortunately, he missed the 1st few games of the season, so Stat Boys don't have him on their radar, because his games so far don't get him on the national stat sheets.
If Stat Boy was making the case the Bills should have stayed where they were & drafted Beckham, he'd have a lot more credibility.

http://www.obsessedwithsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/Stat-Boy.jpg

[YardRat]

Great post trap, thanks!

I disagree on Benjamin. I saw him play at FSU and have gone out of my way to watch him some at Carolina. He makes the catches too.

I also still say that this notion that Watkins is the kind of WR that has to be accounted for, above and beyond the norm, is premature. We'll see as things progress. He's had two great games, one good game, and hasn't done much in four others. It's not like he's become a regular at doing this and I'd like to see it against some teams and Ds besides Chicago and Minnesota as well.

Benjamin is 6'5" compared to Watkins 6'1" and 30 lbs. lighter. Benjamin is more that mold of those WRs that you say need to be accounted for and his collegiate accolades were nothing to laugh at and he posted better games against their tougher competition. It has nothing to do with "my precious Benjamin." If Benjamin were on our team you'd all be switching stances.

But again, would it have been better to have had our 1st and 4th's next season and Benjamin, or Watkins?

Time will tell but right now Benjamin's the better NFL WR both visually, in terms of consistency, as well as statistically. He's a huge RZ target, the kind that everyone said Williams was, but Benjamin's actually playing that way.

Considering the Patriots decided to blanket Watkins with Revis for the entire game as part of their game plan, it certainly isn't premature.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I don't think anyone thought he wouldn't be good or great, but he'd need to be a Hall of Famer to be worth what we gave up or get us into the playoffs.

If we draft Top 15 next year and can't use our pick everyone should be fired. You make the bed you sleep in it.

[billser]

I don't think anyone thought he wouldn't be good or great, but he'd need to be a Hall of Famer to be worth what we gave up or get us into the playoffs.

If we draft Top 15 next year and can't use our pick everyone should be fired. You make the bed you sleep in it.

Considering how bad our past 1st rounders have been, I'm ok with what we did. Rather have sammy than Kevlin Benjamin along with a MIke Williams/ cj spiller/ Ej manuel/ stephon Gilmore etc combo. These 1st rounders are wayyyyy overrated, hence why picking up an almost sure player is worth it.

[billser]

All we've done is picked up meaningless mid 1st round players for two decades, sorry if I don't mind that for once we tried to hit a home run.

[billser]

Go look at what we would've picked up instead. Browns took Justin Gilbert with what would have been our pick, he's currently behind an undrsfted guy and not playing. Go look at what Eric Ebron is doing. We would've picked a nonsense guy, along with another likely nonsense guy next yr.

[Novacane]

Sometimes you have to Watch the games & get your head out of the stat sheet to understand what's going on on the field. That's why the ones watching the games know Watkins is special. If you don't, you're either not watching the games or just don't get it.
If stats were so important, there wouldn't be film review. Meetings would consist of the coaches handing out stat sheets and everyone would go home 10 minutes after getting there. The NFL is a little more complicated than that. Some people who think the stats tell everything don't understand the NFL.


Or your name is fletch, you have an agenda and will never admit being wrong

[casdhf]

All we've done is picked up meaningless mid 1st round players for two decades, sorry if I don't mind that for once we tried to hit a home run.
This guy

[JoeMama]

A lot of people complained about Kyle Orton's throw to Watkins that was well behind him on the game winning drive vs Detroit.

But the amazing catch Watkins made is a good example of why we traded up to get him.

That's the kind of dazzling talent that few receivers possess. The kid is just a monster. And I stick by my guns he's worth every penny in the draft. He has a rare skill set that will set him up as an elite receiver for years to come.

Tough break losing a 1st and a 4th to get Watkins, but consider the upside of a top 5 receiver for the next decade a fair trade-off.

Revis got the best of him in Week 6 but you won't see too many NFL CB's enjoy that level of success against him. He possesses too many superlatives to be simply and above average WR.

We got a gamebreaker on our hands and it's something we've desperately needed for years.

Long live the Fort Myers native.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Considering how bad our past 1st rounders have been, I'm ok with what we did. Rather have sammy than Kevlin Benjamin along with a MIke Williams/ cj spiller/ Ej manuel/ stephon Gilmore etc combo. These 1st rounders are wayyyyy overrated, hence why picking up an almost sure player is worth it.

I guess you are right. I agree in theory with you very much (although those other 2 guys have been very good). The thing that pisses me off is that okay they went all in but then they play baloneytown with the QB position and with team specific matchups. If you are going to go all in, then go all in.

If you are going to go all in, don't ignore your premier player against the division champs Patriots. And don't gimme those typical garbage punt at the 42 yard line when it is 4th and 1. If you are all in and going for it then do it. I'm sure you watched Jeremy White's analysis on WGR against Revis and Sammy was open a ton. He just wasn't part of the gameplan at all, he was #3 at best on all routes. That is garbage coaching.

I love Sammy a ton, and I am incredibly happy we have him. But with our QB situation I mean I can't see how he is worth a bottom 15 pick next year to get a new QB. If we finish outside of 15, well maybe I'm wrong, but damn I'm sick of waiting for a franchise QB.

[better days]

I guess you are right. I agree in theory with you very much (although those other 2 guys have been very good). The thing that pisses me off is that okay they went all in but then they play baloneytown with the QB position and with team specific matchups. If you are going to go all in, then go all in.

If you are going to go all in, don't ignore your premier player against the division champs Patriots. And don't gimme those typical garbage punt at the 42 yard line when it is 4th and 1. If you are all in and going for it then do it. I'm sure you watched Jeremy White's analysis on WGR against Revis and Sammy was open a ton. He just wasn't part of the gameplan at all, he was #3 at best on all routes. That is garbage coaching.

I love Sammy a ton, and I am incredibly happy we have him. But with our QB situation I mean I can't see how he is worth a bottom 15 pick next year to get a new QB. If we finish outside of 15, well maybe I'm wrong, but damn I'm sick of waiting for a franchise QB.

The thing is, that was a move Whaley made, going all in to get Sammy, balls of steel.

It is on Marrone , Hackett & the QB that Sammy was ignored.

I agree about the punting, once the ball crosses the 50 yd line I would not punt.

[YardRat]

The thing is, that was a move Whaley made, going all in to get Sammy, balls of steel.

It is on Marrone , Hackett & the QB that Sammy was ignored.

I agree about the punting, once the ball crosses the 50 yd line I would not punt.

Granted on the first two points, but...

With this offensive line (obviously considering specific game conditions and situations) if there isn't a legitimate shot at a FG you have to punt. It's actually recognition by the head coach of the team's strength (defense) and weakness (offense, particularly the running game). Would you rather Marrone ignored the obvious and continually gifted the opponent field position and ball possession at mid-field?

[Woodman]

Sammy is just beginning to scratch the surface.

[tomz]

A lot of people complained about Kyle Orton's throw to Watkins that was well behind him on the game winning drive vs Detroit.

But the amazing catch Watkins made is a good example of why we traded up to get him.

That's the kind of dazzling talent that few receivers possess. The kid is just a monster. And I stick by my guns he's worth every penny in the draft. He has a rare skill set that will set him up as an elite receiver for years to come.

Tough break losing a 1st and a 4th to get Watkins, but consider the upside of a top 5 receiver for the next decade a fair trade-off.

Revis got the best of him in Week 6 but you won't see too many NFL CB's enjoy that level of success against him. He possesses too many superlatives to be simply and above average WR.

We got a gamebreaker on our hands and it's something we've desperately needed for years.

Long live the Fort Myers native.

Agreed. The other thing that comes up constantly about Watkins is how humble and serious about honing his craft he is. He is determined to be great, to build on his awesome talent. Also, watch the way he catches the ball. All hands. the ball just looks engulfed. This guy is Megatron II in a couple years with competent quarterbacking. It took the Lions 3 consecutive high (top 5 I believe) first round picks to hit on Calvin Johnson.

Benjamin may do some eye-catching things but to me he is comparable to Mike Williams. Williams had a couple strong seasons in Tampa but started to slide after that. Some if it was injuries but you gotta think that some of it is commitment.

[Fletch]

I don't think anyone thought he wouldn't be good or great, but he'd need to be a Hall of Famer to be worth what we gave up or get us into the playoffs.

If we draft Top 15 next year and can't use our pick everyone should be fired. You make the bed you sleep in it.

Agreed

Thanks for being honest.

By the way, do you want to review the game with me? I've been looking for that last post you made to me before the games but I can't find it, I meant to respond. If you know where it is let me know and I will, I definitely had some thoughts to share and continue that.