Statement Game

[Don't Panic]

We are a 3 point dog going on the road to play a 1 win team. The metrics speak to how we might be in trouble this week. A loss here puts us at 4-4 going into the bye, thinking about an opportunity squandered, and squarely on the outside looking in for the playoff picture.

A win though, a decisive win at that, could really be the difference in setting us up for a second half run. This team needs another dominant win, a la the Miami game, although without the Kelly and Pegula news/home opener wind at our back and on the road.

This isn't a must win game. We're still a ways from that kind of talk. But it is an opportunity. A chance to kick this Jets team squarely in the nuts and build the kind of confidence we're going to need to keep the pace with the rest of the conference.

I hope the boys are beyond amped this Sunday. I hope they're throwing haymakers all day and showing no mercy. I want to see us win by 20. It may be just 1 of 16, but to me it presents a huge chance to make the kind of statement we need to make.

[justasportsfan]

This isn't a must win game. We're still a ways from that kind of talk.

for a team that hasn't made playoffs in 14 years, this is a must win. Maybe not mathematically but historically.

[Fletch]

We are a 3 point dog going on the road to play a 1 win team. The metrics speak to how we might be in trouble this week. A loss here puts us at 4-4 going into the bye, thinking about an opportunity squandered, and squarely on the outside looking in for the playoff picture.

A win though, a decisive win at that, could really be the difference in setting us up for a second half run. This team needs another dominant win, a la the Miami game, although without the Kelly and Pegula news/home opener wind at our back and on the road.

This isn't a must win game. We're still a ways from that kind of talk. But it is an opportunity. A chance to kick this Jets team squarely in the nuts and build the kind of confidence we're going to need to keep the pace with the rest of the conference.

I hope the boys are beyond amped this Sunday. I hope they're throwing haymakers all day and showing no mercy. I want to see us win by 20. It may be just 1 of 16, but to me it presents a huge chance to make the kind of statement we need to make.

I'll disagree that we need a dominant win. This is a division game and anything can happen. A 1-point win is fine as long as we play competently as I see it.

What is critical, IMO, is for the offense to put up some points for a change. We made this change to Orton which so far has only resulted in the diminishment of the running game, with FredEx and Spiller, more passing yards, but not more points.

Our passing D isn't very good apart from logging sacks and INTs again. Our rushing D plays well against inferior RBs but otherwise not so much.

I also disagree that this is not a must-win game if we expect to go 8-8 or better. We may not win a single game in December and our schedule features no team that we can afford to look past given last week's play. Of the four easiest games we have left three are divisional, twice against the Jets and one in Miami, two of the three being road games.

We're not going to beat NE, Denver, or GB, all cold weather teams, in December. Three of our December games are on the road.

Going into our bye week, which is positioned perfectly this season, at 4-4 is a recipe to finish 6-10 again.

This is a must-win game.

[THATHURMANATOR]

WIN THE ****ING GAME PLEASE. THE JETS HAVE 1 WIN FOR CHRISTS SAKE

[casdhf]

Our passing D isn't very good apart from logging sacks and INTs again. Our rushing D plays well against inferior RBs but otherwise not so much.



Uh, pretty sure that is good for a Pass Defense.

[better days]

for a team that hasn't made playoffs in 14 years, this is a must win. Maybe not mathematically but historically.

I said this in a different thread, a win against the Jets & the Bills will have a winning record at the half way point of the season.

When is the last time that happened?

A win Sunday would be historical.

[Historian]

It's a game they can and should win, but it usually ends up being a comedy of errors when we go to Jersey:

Multiple turnovers by both teams.
Special teams disasters.
Missed kicks.

And so on and so forth.

If the Bills win, Jet management is going to be kicking themselves for giving Coach Foot Fetish an extension.

I think it's a must win for them, which worries me a bit.

[better days]

Uh, pretty sure that is good for a Pass Defense.

And the Bills Defense is damn good at stopping the other teams Offense from putting points on the board.

At the start of the season, people not only said the Bears would beat the Bills, but the Bears would blow out the Bills.

That kind of talk continued for a few more games, but now nobody is saying the Bills are going to get blown out of a game.

[better days]

It's a game they can and should win, but it usually ends up being a comedy of errors when we go to Jersey:

Multiple turnovers by both teams.
Special teams disasters.
Missed kicks.

And so on and so forth.

If the Bills win, Jet management is going to be kicking themselves for giving Coach Foot Fetish an extension.

I think it's a must win for them, which worries me a bit.

Rex did not get a long extension & the talk is he is coaching for his football life in NY.

I like Rex myself, & would be happy to have him as the HC of my team as long as he had a GOOD OC.

[feldspar]

The Jets are better than their record IMO, and they are desperate for a win at this point. "Win one for Rex" at home or whatever. Coming off a Thursday Night game (which they should have won), the Jets have a few more days to prepare than the Bills. They have a good defense; in fact, I think that this game has all the earmarks of a defensive battle. The over/under in this game is lower than any other game in week 8.

I see it as a must-win game. There should be no talk about the playoffs for quite a while if we lose this game, with a lot of ground to make up...probably too much. A divisional game is HUGE, especially in the spot the Bills are in. They are 1-3 in the conference, so that doesn't bode well for any tiebreakers in Wildcard scenarios, much less winning the division. Personally, I'd like to entertain those thoughts for a longer period of time. Whatever happens is going to linger for two weeks, through the bye.

Looking at it, I think the difference may be turnovers and penalties if it turns out to be the defensive battle it seems to be on paper. At any rate, I think those two things will be key. Protect the football and don't make stupid mistakes. The refs are sure to piss me off, but that's nothing new. It'll be interesting to see how our new running game looks, and they do have a challenge against this Jets defense in that regard. The Bills need to protect Orton so he can exploit that vulnerable Jets secondary...running the ball well would obviously help that.

Scoring first would be big.

[BuffaloRedleg]

The Pats game was a statement game and we didn't show up, so that ship has sailed.

This is just a game where we must win to hang on to our slim playoff hopes. If they lose, seeya it ain't happening.

That's not just being negative, that's just a plain ole' unfortunate reality.

[Forward_Lateral]

Like Historian said, it's more of a must win for the Jets than it is the Bills. Rex and company are desperate for a win. I think the Bills are gonna be in tough this week. Anyone expecting a blowout has expectations that are way to high.

Find a way to win. A road divisional win would be huge.

A loss would not cripple the season, regardless of what some will tell you. 4-4 after the bye is still a very good spot to be in, Wild Card wise.

[feldspar]

A loss would not cripple the season, regardless of what some will tell you. 4-4 after the bye is still a very good spot to be in, Wild Card wise.

Maybe sometimes, but with a loss, the Bills would be 1-2 in the division and 1-4 in the conference. That's not good for a Wildcard tiebreaker scenario, like I said.

And a late push will be difficult, to say the least. The December schedule is brutal. Three of the four final games are on the road. We have to play AT Denver and AT New England. We also have to play Green Bay.

It's very important that the Bills make 5-3. Anything can happen later, but this team isn't good enough to climb out of any hole IMO. They need to make a run in the next five-game stretch, feeling good going into the bye. After the bye, the Bills have 3 out of the next 4 games at home, all games winnable IMO. We need to take advantage of these "winnable" games while we can.

Losing to the Jets this week would be extremely deflating.

[HAMMER]

Rex did not get a long extension & the talk is he is coaching for his football life in NY.

I like Rex myself, & would be happy to have him as the HC of my team as long as he had a GOOD OC.

Wow! Don't know what to say about this statement. Who in their right mind would want that clown of a coach, total blowhard, creates distractions, likes to lick toes. No thank you

[Fletch]

WIN THE ****ING GAME PLEASE. THE JETS HAVE 1 WIN FOR CHRISTS SAKE

They've also played Denver and GB. I think that they're much better than that record.

Maybe they'd be 3-4 if they'd played Minnesota and Houston instead of GB and Denver, two games that we're likely to lose as well. They definitely gave NE a hell of a lot better game than we did.

Just sayin'.

[Fletch]

Uh, pretty sure that is good for a Pass Defense.

What's good for a pass defense?

Being ranked 26th in compl. % allowed, 14th in Rating allowed, 19th in ypa allowed, and 19th in yards per game allowed?

Or what is pretty good?

There's more to pass defense than just getting sacks and INTs, especially when we hardly get any against teams like SD and NE. I'm sure it'll be the same against GB, NE again, and Denver too, maybe even KC. Don't you think? Or do you think that our defense is going to step it up in those games?

It's nice to know that we can rattle Tannehill, Bridgewater, Stafford when he only has one receiving option on the field that's ever done much, but at some point we're going to have to prove that we can do the same against playoff teams if we want to become one.

[Fletch]

The Jets are better than their record IMO, and they are desperate for a win at this point. "Win one for Rex" at home or whatever. Coming off a Thursday Night game (which they should have won), the Jets have a few more days to prepare than the Bills. They have a good defense; in fact, I think that this game has all the earmarks of a defensive battle. The over/under in this game is lower than any other game in week 8.

I see it as a must-win game. There should be no talk about the playoffs for quite a while if we lose this game, with a lot of ground to make up...probably too much. A divisional game is HUGE, especially in the spot the Bills are in. They are 1-3 in the conference, so that doesn't bode well for any tiebreakers in Wildcard scenarios, much less winning the division. Personally, I'd like to entertain those thoughts for a longer period of time. Whatever happens is going to linger for two weeks, through the bye.

Looking at it, I think the difference may be turnovers and penalties if it turns out to be the defensive battle it seems to be on paper. At any rate, I think those two things will be key. Protect the football and don't make stupid mistakes. The refs are sure to piss me off, but that's nothing new. It'll be interesting to see how our new running game looks, and they do have a challenge against this Jets defense in that regard. The Bills need to protect Orton so he can exploit that vulnerable Jets secondary...running the ball well would obviously help that.

Scoring first would be big.

Agree with you for the most part.

But you overlooked one thing, the Jets running game. The Jets ran haywire over us in both games last season and now have three RBs that have had a history of doing damage against us. Figure that they just schooled Belicheat in that way and it could be an enormous problem for our "elite rushing defense."

Either way, it's going to be a good gauge game to see what Schwartz's rushing D is really made of. This might be the best rushing game we've seen all season. If we can't hold them to under 100 yards rushing, or at least a very low rushing average if somewhat over that, then I think we all have to start questioning how good this rushing defense really is and whether or not it hasn't been more smoke and mirrors in getting us to this point in the rankings.

Smith should not be a problem for our D except for the extent to which he runs with the ball too.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Just win the ****ing game ok? PLEAAAASSSE :)

[Fletch]

Like Historian said, it's more of a must win for the Jets than it is the Bills.

A loss would not cripple the season, regardless of what some will tell you. 4-4 after the bye is still a very good spot to be in, Wild Card wise.

If we lose, and it's a good assumption that Miami beats Jax this weekend, then we'll be in third place and 1-2 in the division with road games remaining in NE and Miami.

Miami has an easier schedule left and has already played GB and KC. The Jets have an easier schedule remaining and have already played Denver and GB.

Depends upon what you mean by cripple the season, but if crippling the season means damaging playoff hopes beyond a reasonable expectation, then this is a must-win game.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Fletch can we just win this freaking game please?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

This is like NE to Buffalo week 6 all over again, only this time the Jets play the role of the Bills and Bills play the role of the Pats.

Week 6 the Bills viewed it as a must win, but the Pats rose up and put the Bills in their place. Can the Bills do the same to the Jets in game 8?

[trapezeus]

geno had a decent game in NJ with 2 TD and 330yards... they won despite 20 penalties in that game.

then he came to buffalo and had 8 completions 3 INTs and just melted down to 108 yards passing. the bills ran away.

to me it really comes down to how crazy geno is going to be. When he has time, he makes the right read and throws fairly accurately. Other times,he just gets way in over his head and isn't in the right zipcode. i don't know which one shows up.

- he's thrown at least one int in every game but the patriots game.
- they didn't crush oakland at home and that was his best game with a 96 qbr.
- they throw a lot and lose. oakland he threw 28 times and won. Every other game with the exception of oakland where he was yanked, he's thrown 30+ times.


at some point, someone with sense in NJ needs to say "let's use our backs and use our #5 rushing attack to take the pressure off our volatile QB". but i think morningweg will want to try his new toy and make harvin happy with a number of targets. hopefully we can disrupt that with good pressure and making it hard for the two of them to be on the same page.

I also think if the jets start slowly, their crowd is going to eat them alive.

[feldspar]

geno had a decent game in NJ with 2 TD and 330yards... they won despite 20 penalties in that game.

then he came to buffalo and had 8 completions 3 INTs and just melted down to 108 yards passing. the bills ran away.

to me it really comes down to how crazy geno is going to be.

If you remember, the Jets victory last year when our entire secondary was out...and I mean our ENTIRE secondary, except for Aaron Williams, who was forced into playing cornerback. Justin Rogers gave up the majority of those yards on a handful of plays.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

If you remember, the Jets victory last year when our entire secondary was out...and I mean our ENTIRE secondary, except for Aaron Williams, who was forced into playing cornerback. Justin Rogers gave up the majority of those yards on a handful of plays.

But our O-Line wasn't as bad then as now.

[better days]

geno had a decent game in NJ with 2 TD and 330yards... they won despite 20 penalties in that game.

then he came to buffalo and had 8 completions 3 INTs and just melted down to 108 yards passing. the bills ran away.

to me it really comes down to how crazy geno is going to be. When he has time, he makes the right read and throws fairly accurately. Other times,he just gets way in over his head and isn't in the right zipcode. i don't know which one shows up.

- he's thrown at least one int in every game but the patriots game.
- they didn't crush oakland at home and that was his best game with a 96 qbr.
- they throw a lot and lose. oakland he threw 28 times and won. Every other game with the exception of oakland where he was yanked, he's thrown 30+ times.


at some point, someone with sense in NJ needs to say "let's use our backs and use our #5 rushing attack to take the pressure off our volatile QB". but i think morningweg will want to try his new toy and make harvin happy with a number of targets. hopefully we can disrupt that with good pressure and making it hard for the two of them to be on the same page.

I also think if the jets start slowly, their crowd is going to eat them alive.

The Bills were decimated in the secondary the first game against the Jets last year & still almost won that game.

[trapezeus]

i forgot about the justin rogers game.

i think we got help from 20 penalties on the jets. maybe it was a little less, but they kept us in it with bad penalties. and i remember thinking that some of it was like we were the patriots. we were getting calls for no reason whatso ever. it was kind of fun to be the patriots.

at the end, i don't think the jets are as bad as 1-6. it will be very meaningful for the bills to win. if they can, to me that signifies some improvement. maybe beating the pats is more of a final step...winning a game we should on the road, before a bye to keep ourselves in it might be a more realistic target than trying to be the division leader from start to finish.

if they lose this game, in my opinion, it will be a complete status quo move and another nail in the coffin if pegula and his consultants are thinking about big changes.

[better days]

But our O-Line wasn't as bad then as now.

Urbik is back & Orton makes the OL look worse than it really is with his legs of stone & lack of clock in his head.

[justasportsfan]

I like Rex myself, & would be happy to have him as the HC of my team as long as he had a GOOD OC.

:ill:

[Night Train]

We have 16 Statement games every season.

[better days]

i forgot about the justin rogers game.

i think we got help from 20 penalties on the jets. maybe it was a little less, but they kept us in it with bad penalties. and i remember thinking that some of it was like we were the patriots. we were getting calls for no reason whatso ever. it was kind of fun to be the patriots.

at the end, i don't think the jets are as bad as 1-6. it will be very meaningful for the bills to win. if they can, to me that signifies some improvement. maybe beating the pats is more of a final step...winning a game we should on the road, before a bye to keep ourselves in it might be a more realistic target than trying to be the division leader from start to finish.

if they lose this game, in my opinion, it will be a complete status quo move and another nail in the coffin if pegula and his consultants are thinking about big changes.

Well, everyone forgets about injuries just a little down the road.

The only thing there in black & white is the won lost record.

NOBODY remembers all the injured players on the teams the Pats* have beaten over the years, just the fact the Pats* won those games.

And this is why fletch has no point when he brings up the injuries to players on teams the Bills have beaten.

EVERY team has injuries.

[better days]

Wow! Don't know what to say about this statement. Who in their right mind would want that clown of a coach, total blowhard, creates distractions, likes to lick toes. No thank you

Yeah, I'm sure you would rather have a sourpuss cheating rat bastard like Belicheat as your HC.

Say what you want about Rex. He is a Defensive genius & players love to play for him.

[justasportsfan]

Say what you want about Rex. He is a Defensive genius & players love to play for him.

which is why he should be nothing more than a DC.

Players loved playing for Jauron too.

[The King]

I don't give us much of a shot in this game. The injuries, the Jets, the road… all don't bode well.

[Bunion]

Statement game? Nah. The Statement game was the 'We just lost to the ****ing Buffalo Bills' game last year, and that was much more for the quote than the outcome. The NFL world doesn't shake if the Bills beat the Jets or vice versa. Hell, to the ESPN crowd the AFC East all just for making sure that Prince Thomas of Brady gets his first round bye.

Win the game because they're a division opponent, because they're from Jersey and because it's the ****ing Jets.

[imbondz]

a 1-6 team is never 'better than their record'.

[HAMMER]

Yeah, I'm sure you would rather have a sourpuss cheating rat bastard like Belicheat as your HC.

Say what you want about Rex. He is a Defensive genius & players love to play for him.

Yes I would rather have Belichick than Ryan, every day of every week. Who in their right mind wouldn't?

[sudzy]

This team doesn't have a good record in "statement games."

[trapezeus]

a 1-6 team is never 'better than their record'.

i don't know if i agree with that. you take out the pats and the green bay games, games they could have easily won, they are in the hunt with everyone else. they could have won any of those games except the SD game. they are in most of the games until late. they can win and be a hard team to play.

good bad teams exist.

[JohnnyGold]

The Pats game was a statement game and we didn't show up, so that ship has sailed.

This is just a game where we must win to hang on to our slim playoff hopes. If they lose, seeya it ain't happening.

That's not just being negative, that's just a plain ole' unfortunate reality.

L.
O.
L.

The only thing worse than the product the Bills have put on the field for the past 14 years, is the generation of fans that the losing has spawned.

Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelieveable.

*be one game back from a first round bye*
*have 9 games remaining*
*have slim playoff hopes*

*****ing Bills fans man.
I swear, why do people even watch the games if this is the way they think?

ONE GAME BACK FROM A FIRST ROUND BYE!!!!!

ok ok ok, let's hear it losers. Tell me why we're not one game back from a first round bye. Tell me why every other team in the conference with 2 or 3 losses is so much better than us.

Just *****ing get a 6 pack, watch the game, enjoy it if we win, and go on with your week.

This guy says we have SLIM PLAYOFF HOPES, and we're a game back from a first round bye.

I've literally seen it all. It's just sad that people actually think this way.

[better days]

which is why he should be nothing more than a DC.

Players loved playing for Jauron too.

Well, I think so far, Rex has made better game day decisions than Marrone has.

Hell, maybe Jauron did as well.

[sudzy]

L.
O.
L.

The only thing worse than the product the Bills have put on the field for the past 14 years, is the generation of fans that the losing has spawned.

Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelieveable.

*be one game back from a first round bye*
*have 9 games remaining*
*have slim playoff hopes*

*****ing Bills fans man.
I swear, why do people even watch the games if this is the way they think?

ONE GAME BACK FROM A FIRST ROUND BYE!!!!!

ok ok ok, let's hear it losers. Tell me why we're not one game back from a first round bye. Tell me why every other team in the conference with 2 or 3 losses is so much better than us.

Just *****ing get a 6 pack, watch the game, enjoy it if we win, and go on with your week.

This guy says we have SLIM PLAYOFF HOPES, and we're a game back from a first round bye.

I've literally seen it all. It's just sad that people actually think this way.

Check back in January.

[BillsImpossible]

Urbik is back & Orton makes the OL look worse than it really is with his legs of stone & lack of clock in his head.

Holy vanilla fudge. Where did you pull that out of, better days?

You're blaming Orton for the O-line problems?

You're joking, right?

[Mace]

Any win here will be a good win, it's a statement game for the Jets in their house. They have a very good defense, they looked real good against New England in New England, Geno Smith amazed me by looking darn good (in that game, not sure it lasts). If we don't let them get away with it, it's a good thing.

New England was a statement game for us at the Ralph. All roads to respectable for us lead through the Division champ that owns us. Best chance to beat them was here.

Urbik is going to be rusty because they planted him on the pines ridiculously for so long, and Pears is still not a guard, so you're basically turning that mad blitzing, people coming from everywhere and anywhere Ryan-tree defense (that has feasted on the volume of film of the Bills o-line struggling with stunts so woefully this season) loose against the poor Orton, and we'll be lucky if he's not damaged.

This would be a good win on the road, and "should be" a win, but the statement games are against the big boys and this is really not a terrible team we are playing.

If we do win, it will be a gritty low scoring smash mouth game, and Bryce Brown/Boobie Dixon will have to pound them into losing alongside a merciless top of the line defensive performance.

The Jets are not that great, but they are not that terrible either.

[YardRat]

Big road test against a desperate team, that's for sure. The offense is going to have to protect the ball, and it's going to be interesting to see what poison Schwartz picks. Will he load up against the run and dare Smith to beat them through the air, or will he play off a little minimize Geno's opportunities like he did against Minnesota?

[better days]

Holy vanilla fudge. Where did you pull that out of, better days?

You're blaming Orton for the O-line problems?

You're joking, right?

Orton keeps his OL HANGING ON...Vanilla Fudge reference for you young guys.

Orton has been sacked twice as much as EJ was.

Orton is a Bledsoe like statue that holds the ball too long.

I'm not saying the Bills can't win with him or that EJ would be a better option at this point.

What I am saying is because of his limitations, Kyle makes the OL look worse than EJ did.

[JohnnyGold]

Check back in January.

for what?

if they miss the playoffs, youll be happy because you were right and the bills arent good.

if they make the playoffs and lose in the wild card round, people will be mad because we're keeping marrone next year, and the fans will think that with marrone at coach and orton at qb, we can't do anything more than luck into a wild card.

if they lose in the divisional round, people will be upset because we're a solid team that lucked into a wildcard round win, but doesnt have a high enough draft pick to get that missing piece to propel us to "truly elite," and we'll be stuck as a middling team forever.

if they lose in the afc championship game, people will be upset because we have too many veterans along the defensive line, and orton is too old to build around, so our ceiling will always be just below denver or new england, until luck and dalton take over the conference, and therefor the bills will never make the super bowl.

if we lose in the super bowl, people will be upset because we made it to the big dance based purely on luck of the draw, caught new england in a down year, and rode homefield advantage in the first round to an upset over the patriots, and chanced into 2 more lucky victories. they will say that the team as it is currently constructed can never win a super bowl, and the loss will set us back like the 90-93 losses did, by making us think there is more talent on the team than there actually is, and we will be perpetually stuck as runner ups.

if we win the super bowl, people will complain that we have no succession plan in place for orton, and that we dont have enough money to resign hughes, spiller, and all the free agents that will come due in the summer of 16. people will complain that the bills sacrificed long term success for a one-off championship just like the florida marlins, and now we're going to have to suffer for another 14 years, so enjoy it for 20 minutes (while it lasts) because the future of the bills is dark.

honestly--it's come to this.

when the bills can be at (almost) the halfway point of the year, a game back from a first round bye, and people are saying things like
"slim playoff hopes"
and
"check back in january"

what's the point of discussing them on here.

I'm enjoying this season IMMENSELY. yet every time i come online, i find myself trying to fugure out whats wrong with my head for thinking its fun to watch the bills in 2014.

at 4-3, with the division and a bye in play, i've realized: nothing is wrong with me.

i'm watching a game.
the bills are playing well.
it's fun.
you guys are idiots.

it's as simple as that.

[feldspar]

What I am saying is because of his limitations, Kyle makes the OL look worse than EJ did.

IF that's true, maybe it's because Orton actually goes through his reads and looks to throw the ball in the intermediate-to-long range a lot more than EJ ever did. EJ rarely saw the whole field and was too anxious to check down or lock onto his first read. EJ's limitations are a hell of a lot worse than Orton's. Orton is basically a pocket passer, but he's nowhere near the statue Bledsoe was.

Orton plays the position more like it's meant to be played as compared to EJ.

Sure, Orton holds onto the ball too long sometimes, but I really don't think he's done that more than EJ. I saw plays where he didn't have a chance from the get-go. Either way, the Bills are better off with Orton with the same line. Replacing Richardson with Urbik will help. Orton having more experience in this offense should help.

[better days]

IF that's true, maybe it's because Orton actually goes through his reads and looks to throw the ball in the intermediate-to-long range a lot more than EJ ever did. EJ rarely saw the whole field and was too anxious to check down or lock onto his first read. EJ's limitations are a hell of a lot worse than Orton's. Orton is basically a pocket passer, but he's nowhere near the statue Bledsoe was.

Orton plays the position more like it's meant to be played as compared to EJ.

Sure, Orton holds onto the ball too long sometimes, but I really don't think he's done that more than EJ. I saw plays where he didn't have a chance from the get-go. Either way, the Bills are better off with Orton with the same line. Replacing Richardson with Urbik will help. Orton having more experience in this offense should help.

If you can, go back & look at the games EJ played in this year.

EJ avoided sacks due to his mobility. Kyle gets sacked because he has NO mobility.

I agree, the Bills are better off with Orton than EJ at this point, but if Orton just had a little mobility, he would be a much better QB than he is.

And Orton plays the position like it was meant to be played 30 years ago...not in todays NFL.

[feldspar]

If you can, go back & look at the games EJ played in this year.

EJ avoided sacks due to his mobility. Kyle gets sacked because he has NO mobility.

I agree, the Bills are better off with Orton than EJ at this point, but if Orton just had a little mobility, he would be a much better QB than he is.

And Orton plays the position like it was meant to be played 30 years ago...not in todays NFL.

30 years ago? What? C'mon now. Probably the best couple of quarterbacks in the game today don't have more mobility than Orton.

Orton doesn't have NO mobility. And I think you mistake EJ's "mobility" for what it really is sometimes, which is giving up too soon on a play...sensing pressure when it really isn't there yet...not fully understanding the situation for whatever reason. Then he tries to get the hell out of there too soon. Also, I think that they were trying to turn EJ into a pure pocket passer (or thereabouts) when that really isn't the way he's totally geared...not really the way he approaches the game naturally. "Watch your knees."

I think Orton is more able to SENSE pressure and naturally step up in the pocket, drop back, or roll out. That's what you want most often, even in today's game. Or even just get rid of the ball quicker by design.

Smarts and accuracy are WAY more important than mobility in the long run. Balls help.

[YardRat]

If you can, go back & look at the games EJ played in this year.

EJ avoided sacks due to his mobility. Kyle gets sacked because he has NO mobility.

I agree, the Bills are better off with Orton than EJ at this point, but if Orton just had a little mobility, he would be a much better QB than he is.

And Orton plays the position like it was meant to be played 30 years ago...not in todays NFL.

Peyton Manning and Tom Brady respectfully disagree.

[pmoon6]

Throw all the stats and BS out the window for this one.

Regardless of the perceived strength of the respective teams, the Jets games are usually tough, hard fought affairs...at least if history is any indicator.

[better days]

30 years ago? What? C'mon now. Probably the best couple of quarterbacks in the game today don't have more mobility than Orton.

Orton doesn't have NO mobility. And I think you mistake EJ's "mobility" for what it really is sometimes, which is giving up too soon on a play...sensing pressure when it really isn't there yet...not fully understanding the situation for whatever reason. Then he tries to get the hell out of there too soon. Also, I think that they were trying to turn EJ into a pure pocket passer (or thereabouts) when that really isn't the way he's totally geared...not really the way he approaches the game naturally. "Watch your knees."

I think Orton is more able to SENSE pressure and naturally step up in the pocket, drop back, or roll out. That's what you want most often, even in today's game. Or even just get rid of the ball quicker by design.

Smarts and accuracy are WAY more important than mobility in the long run. Balls help.

So I suppose Manning & Brady give up on a play too soon as well.

Neither of them gets sacked like Orton does.

And don't tell me it is because they have a better OL in front of them, I would bet Orton would be sacked just as often behind the Pats* OL as he is behind the Bills.

This reminds me of Rob Johnson & Doug Flutie. Rob made the OL look terrible with all the sacks he took.

When Flutie came in, he moved around & got rid of the ball fast & the OL looked much better.

[Fletch]

IF that's true, maybe it's because Orton actually goes through his reads and looks to throw the ball in the intermediate-to-long range a lot more than EJ ever did. EJ rarely saw the whole field and was too anxious to check down or lock onto his first read. EJ's limitations are a hell of a lot worse than Orton's. Orton is basically a pocket passer, but he's nowhere near the statue Bledsoe was.

Orton plays the position more like it's meant to be played as compared to EJ.

Sure, Orton holds onto the ball too long sometimes, but I really don't think he's done that more than EJ. I saw plays where he didn't have a chance from the get-go. Either way, the Bills are better off with Orton with the same line. Replacing Richardson with Urbik will help. Orton having more experience in this offense should help.

I'm not sure what to think about Orton, and I'm not taking a side in this discussion between you and better days, but while it's rare I will agree with bd on the notion that Orton is taking far too many sacks.

I don't know if he'll end up setting a team record for sacks taken, but right now he's taking more sacks per-game than any other QB in Bills history.

If sacks are that relevant when we look at our D, then they have to also be equally relevant when we talk about sustaining them.

I will add this point to the discussion between you two, our offense hasn't been any more potent in terms of scoring than it was with Manuel in there, which is mindboggling. The only conclusion that I've come to regarding that is that at least a part of that has to do with drives ended due to sacks taken.

Orton's no immobile, but he appears to be below average in terms of mobility.

Otherwise, I think what's happened here is that the offense has gotten googly-eyed over having a better passer in there and have put much more of their planning into passing the ball and taken the rushing out of the game-planning, or at least they're calling it that way on game days.

It is somewhat perplexing because this team should be scoring more with Orton, but Red Zone production and scoring are no better. Third down conversions and total # of 1st downs are not significantly higher if they're better at all.

[feldspar]

So I suppose Manning & Brady give up on a play too soon as well.

Neither of them gets sacked like Orton does.

And don't tell me it is because they have a better OL in front of them, I would bet Orton would be sacked just as often behind the Pats* OL as he is behind the Bills.

This reminds me of Rob Johnson & Doug Flutie. Rob made the OL look terrible with all the sacks he took.

When Flutie came in, he moved around & got rid of the ball fast & the OL looked much better.

Man, if you look at Orton's sack numbers throughout his career, they are not that high.

If you really want to compare EJ Manuel with Orton, Manuel has actually been sacked at a greater rate than Orton has throughout his career.

And Orton hasn't really been playing behind the same line as EJ.

If you want to know why the line seems worse with Orton in there, look no further than this guy...or at least start here:

http://i.imgur.com/Wiy1GxH.gif

Cyril Richardson has started every game Orton has, and he's been absolutely putrid. He's only started one game with EJ at QB...you know, the game which was the last straw leading EJ to the bench. J.J. Watt basically won the Bills/Texans game for Houston, IMO. You know something is wrong when fans are screaming for Urbik to start...

[better days]

Man, if you look at Orton's sack numbers throughout his career, they are not that high.

If you really want to compare EJ Manuel with Orton, Manuel has actually been sacked at a greater rate than Orton has throughout his career.

And Orton hasn't really been playing behind the same line as EJ.

If you want to know why the line seems worse with Orton in there, look no further than this guy...or at least start here:

http://i.imgur.com/Wiy1GxH.gif

Cyril Richardson has started every game Orton has, and he's been absolutely putrid. He's only started one game with EJ at QB...you know, the game which was the last straw leading EJ to the bench. J.J. Watt basically won the Bills/Texans game for Houston, IMO. You know something is wrong when fans are screaming for Urbik to start...

OK, Orbik is playing Sunday, I hope you are right & Orton doesn't get sacked once.

[feldspar]

OK, Orbik is playing Sunday, I hope you are right & Orton doesn't get sacked once.

I'm pretty sure he'll get sacked by that Rex Ryan defense. At least I have confidence that Orton doesn't rattle too easily. I really think that the battle up front on both sides of the ball will have a lot to do with how the game plays out, even more so than usual.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

We make a statement by beating New England, Denver, or Green Bay. We don't need a statement, but for all the reasons you mentioned we need a W and we need to go into the bye with no further injuries. I kinda like a team that wins ugly and knows how to win gritty --see my love of the hometown baseball club, Kansas City Royals -- because that is the type of team that kicks ass when it gets all the tools in place. So just get me a gritty win. 5-3, and then come back beat KC, Cleveland, Miami, the Jets again, Oakland and any one of the games against Green Bay, New England, and Denver.


We are a 3 point dog going on the road to play a 1 win team. The metrics speak to how we might be in trouble this week. A loss here puts us at 4-4 going into the bye, thinking about an opportunity squandered, and squarely on the outside looking in for the playoff picture.

A win though, a decisive win at that, could really be the difference in setting us up for a second half run. This team needs another dominant win, a la the Miami game, although without the Kelly and Pegula news/home opener wind at our back and on the road.

This isn't a must win game. We're still a ways from that kind of talk. But it is an opportunity. A chance to kick this Jets team squarely in the nuts and build the kind of confidence we're going to need to keep the pace with the rest of the conference.

I hope the boys are beyond amped this Sunday. I hope they're throwing haymakers all day and showing no mercy. I want to see us win by 20. It may be just 1 of 16, but to me it presents a huge chance to make the kind of statement we need to make.

[Edward Robinson]

Well, everyone forgets about injuries just a little down the road.

The only thing there in black & white is the won lost record.

NOBODY remembers all the injured players on the teams the Pats* have beaten over the years, just the fact the Pats* won those games.



And this is why fletch has no point when he brings up the injuries to players on teams the Bills have beaten.

EVERY team has injuries.


Amen. That is what I've been saying to Fletch all along. This is the NFL. The teams with the best qb's and the most depth are the teams that usually make the playoffs

[pmoon6]

:rofl: "Legs Of Stone" reminds me of the "Statue" tag Bledsoe got from dumbass Bills' Fans.

Bledsoe was the best QB we had since Kelly and alot better than what we had after. The guy threw for 45,000 career yards and is a possibly HOF material.

Yet, lots of Bills' Fans panned and hated him.

That speaks volumes.

[gebobs]

Holy crap...13 sacks in three games is a LOT...a lot more than I thought. But 300 YPG is a lot too. Far more than EJ could possibly muster with his dinks and dunks.

This game scares me. The Bills will try to establish the running game without their two best backs. Failing that, the Jets will pin their ears back and come at Orton.

[better days]

:rofl: "Legs Of Stone" reminds me of the "Statue" tag Bledsoe got from dumbass Bills' Fans.

Bledsoe was the best QB we had since Kelly and alot better than what we had after. The guy threw for 45,000 career yards and is a possibly HOF material.

Yet, lots of Bills' Fans panned and hated him.

That speaks volumes.

Yeah, because Bledsoe played great in Buffalo.

How can anyone hate the QB that won the Super Bowl for the Bills?

Maybe Bledsoe was hated because it was one of the worst trades in Bills history.

[YardRat]

Today would be a good day to plug in a lot of draws and bubble screens to WR's, IMO. This really feels like a feast-or-famine game to me, it's either going to be glorious or humiliating.

[Historian]

if we win the super bowl, people will complain that we have no succession plan in place for orton, and that we dont have enough money to resign hughes, spiller, and all the free agents that will come due in the summer of 16. people will complain that the bills sacrificed long term success for a one-off championship just like the florida marlins, and now we're going to have to suffer for another 14 years, so enjoy it for 20 minutes (while it lasts) because the future of the bills is dark.

honestly--it's come to this.





Thanks.

Coffee came out of my nose on that one.

Why?

Because it's so true.

[sudzy]

Maybe Bledsoe was hated because it was one of the worst trades in Bills history.

Not even top 5.
JP, Rob Johnson, Lamonica, Marshawn, Billy Joe "gun rack" Hobert come to mind. At least Drew gave us our best season of this Millennium.

[starrymessenger]

12/28/2014

[Don't Panic]

Statement made.

[YardRat]

Today would be a good day to plug in a lot of draws and bubble screens to WR's, IMO. This really feels like a feast-or-famine game to me, it's either going to be glorious or humiliating.

Well, for the most part it was glorious, but Hackett's play-calling was humiliating.

[Bunion]

Should have added to my previous post 'unless Buffalo totally beats the **** out of the greatest 1-6 team to ever play the game'.

[Mace]

Any win here will be a good win, it's a statement game for the Jets in their house. They have a very good defense, they looked real good against New England in New England, Geno Smith amazed me by looking darn good (in that game, not sure it lasts). If we don't let them get away with it, it's a good thing.

New England was a statement game for us at the Ralph. All roads to respectable for us lead through the Division champ that owns us. Best chance to beat them was here.

Urbik is going to be rusty because they planted him on the pines ridiculously for so long, and Pears is still not a guard, so you're basically turning that mad blitzing, people coming from everywhere and anywhere Ryan-tree defense (that has feasted on the volume of film of the Bills o-line struggling with stunts so woefully this season) loose against the poor Orton, and we'll be lucky if he's not damaged.

This would be a good win on the road, and "should be" a win, but the statement games are against the big boys and this is really not a terrible team we are playing.

If we do win, it will be a gritty low scoring smash mouth game, and Bryce Brown/Boobie Dixon will have to pound them into losing alongside a merciless top of the line defensive performance.

The Jets are not that great, but they are not that terrible either.

One of these days, Mace, you might even show a sign of trying to buy a clue. This was a statement game, and the Jets are terrible. Go back to school, start around 3rd grade, and maybe you can leave the kiddie table at holidays and sit with the adults again after another 9 years of education.

[better days]

Not even top 5.
JP, Rob Johnson, Lamonica, Marshawn, Billy Joe "gun rack" Hobert come to mind. At least Drew gave us our best season of this Millennium.

The trade for Bledsoe was made with the NEW ENGLAND Patriots*....just as Brady & that team started their rise to the top.

The Pats* eventually got Vince Wilfork because of that trade.

Bledsoe gave the Bills one good year, Wilfork is still playing for the Pats* today.

Worst trade in Bills history.

[pmoon6]

The trade for Bledsoe was made with the NEW ENGLAND Patriots*....just as Brady & that team started their rise to the top.

The Pats* eventually got Vince Wilfork because of that trade.

Bledsoe gave the Bills one good year, Wilfork is still playing for the Pats* today.

Worst trade in Bills history.Not even close.

[better days]

Not even close.

OK, what team got a better player than Wilfork in a trade with the Bills?

[pmoon6]

OK, what team got a better player than Wilfork in a trade with the Bills?Hard to say, we boned Bledsoe by naming Losman the starter. You also can't say that just because the Pats got a good player with the draft pick, they got the better of the deal. At the time the pick was an unknown quantity. They could just as easily drafted a bust.

We can play this game all day, but the worst trade in Bills' History was the Lamonica trade. Al Davis boned us on that one because Lamonica was a known talent and should have replaced Kemp who was on the downside of his career. In return for Lamonica and Glenn Bass we got another older QB and a receiver that was blind in one eye. Art Powell.

[YardRat]

Al Davis must have had compromising pictures of Ralph with Marilyn Monroe or Lady Bird Johnson, I can't think of any other reason why he helped Oakland so much in the 60's.

[Mace]

Al Davis must have had compromising pictures of Ralph with Marilyn Monroe or Lady Bird Johnson, I can't think of any other reason why he helped Oakland so much in the 60's.

J. Edgar Hoover got around a lot back then. Met him when I was 8, he was Aunt Cynthia. My Uncle always said he was a helluva dame for not being a dame and the director of the FBI. She, er, he, seemed nice, gave me a Cuban cigar and told me not to tell anyone it was Cuban because that was against federal regulations, then guffawed so hard he had to pull up his knee highs. I remember he told me Ralph Wilson bought a nice dinner but you want to go out with Al Davis for the best time. Being 8 and used to my family, I didn't make much of it. Sold the Cuban to a kid down the street for some GI Joe stuff, his family was arrested for violating federal regulations on Cuban stuff so I used the GI Joe stuff to hire a team of 10 year olds to break into their house and sell their booze to 16 year olds, along with their clothes to transients for Camel cigarettes. Those were good days.

Anyway your theory is preposterous.

[Ginger Vitis]

The trade for Bledsoe was made with the NEW ENGLAND Patriots*....just as Brady & that team started their rise to the top.

The Pats* eventually got Vince Wilfork because of that trade.

Bledsoe gave the Bills one good year, Wilfork is still playing for the Pats* today.

Worst trade in Bills history.

The Pats got the Bills 1st round pick in 2003 for Bledsoe which was the 14th overall pick..The Pats traded up to 13th overall and picked Ty Warren

[Historian]

It's a game they can and should win, but it usually ends up being a comedy of errors when we go to Jersey:

Multiple turnovers by both teams.
Special teams disasters.
Missed kicks.

And so on and so forth.

If the Bills win, Jet management is going to be kicking themselves for giving Coach Foot Fetish an extension.

I think it's a must win for them, which worries me a bit.

:rofl:

[justasportsfan]

Well, I think so far, Rex has made better game day decisions than Marrone has.

Hell, maybe Jauron did as well.

looks like the players gave up on Rex. Rex should just stick to being a DC.

They way they played against the bills yesterday was a mess and that's what Rex has brought as a HC.Even Jaurons team was not this big of a mess.

[Forward_Lateral]

OK, what team got a better player than Wilfork in a trade with the Bills?

Jacksonville drafted Fred Taylor with the pick the Bills traded for Rob Johnson.

That trade, even if Jacksonville got nothing out of it's picks from Buffalo, is the worst trade in Bills history.

[better days]

The Pats got the Bills 1st round pick in 2003 for Bledsoe which was the 14th overall pick..The Pats traded up to 13th overall and picked Ty Warren

The Pats* made a number of trades.

They got a 2nd rnd pick in the 03 draft & a 1st rnd pick in the 04 draft which they used on Wilfork.

[better days]

Jacksonville drafted Fred Taylor with the pick the Bills traded for Rob Johnson.

That trade, even if Jacksonville got nothing out of it's picks from Buffalo, is the worst trade in Bills history.

A bad trade but not the worst because Wilfork helped the Pats* dominate for a long time.

The Jags did nothing even though Taylor was a great RB.

[gebobs]

The Pats* made a number of trades.

They got a 2nd rnd pick in the 03 draft & a 1st rnd pick in the 04 draft which they used on Wilfork.

No. The Pats got the Bills 2003 pick, #14, for Bledsoe. The Pats traded that pick to Chicago (DL Michael Haynes) along with a 6th rounder in exchange for the #13 to get Ty Warren. The Pats got the Wilfork pick from Baltimore the following year.

My vote goes with the Lamonica trade. Davis took Wilson to the shed on that one, no question.

[Forward_Lateral]

A bad trade but not the worst because Wilfork helped the Pats* dominate for a long time.

The Jags did nothing even though Taylor was a great RB.

Maybe if you had the right draft, you'd be right, but unfortunately, you don't. They drafted Wilfork in 2004. The Bills traded their first round pick in 2003 for Drew.

[better days]

Maybe if you had the right draft, you'd be right, but unfortunately, you don't. They drafted Wilfork in 2004. The Bills traded their first round pick in 2003 for Drew.

The Pats* made a trade in 2003, picked up a 2nd rnd pick in 2003 & a 1st rnd pick in 2004 which they used on Wilfork.