We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

[ghz in pittsburgh]

http://nypost.com/2014/10/26/bills-trash-geno-after-rout-we-were-bummed-he-was-pulled/

As long as Marrone is here, I think the Bills have a way against Geno as he knows him so well. Last year with EJ at helm, the Bills had a chance at NYJ; prior to that, they almost always blew us out of there with Rex at the helm.

One inteesting tidbit though --
“He was just eyeing down receivers,’’ said Bills linebacker Preston Brown, who got Smith’s second interception. “We saw it on film that he was just staring guys down. When we know if you do that we’re going to jump on guys’ routes, and we got some picks in the back-end with just reading his eyes.
“We had Geno rattled and we tried to stay after him.’’

I wonder what Preston will say about EJ since he faced him plenty of times in camp etc. The staring at receivers problem is well documented for him as well. One technical difference maybe that if EJ sees a coverage getting close, he won't even think about throwing the ball. On a positive side, EJ's mental makeup is much better than Geno; you know if you can rattle Geno, it's over pretty quick.

[JohnnyGold]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

http://nypost.com/2014/10/26/bills-t...he-was-pulled/

As long as Marrone is here, I think the Bills have a way against Geno as he knows him so well. Last year with EJ at helm, the Bills had a chance at NYJ; prior to that, they almost always blew us out of there with Rex at the helm.

One inteesting tidbit though --
“He was just eyeing down receivers,’’ said Bills linebacker Preston Brown, who got Smith’s second interception. “We saw it on film that he was just staring guys down. When we know if you do that we’re going to jump on guys’ routes, and we got some picks in the back-end with just reading his eyes.
“We had Geno rattled and we tried to stay after him.’’

I wonder what Preston will say about EJ since he faced him plenty of times in camp etc. The staring at receivers problem is well documented for him as well. One technical difference maybe that if EJ sees a coverage getting close, he won't even think about throwing the ball. On a positive side, EJ's mental makeup is much better than Geno; you know if you can rattle Geno, it's over pretty quick.

This move to Orton is going to be the best thing for EJ's career. He wasn't ready to start, and he still did an adequate job... not perfect, of course, but decent.

Geno Smith proved yesterday he will never be an NFL quarterback.

If EJ rides the bench for 3 seasons, and lights it up on occasion during the preseason, we may be able to trade him away for a high round draft pick--follow the model that the patriots have used to perfection with Brady. Eventually we will draft "the one" that can replace Orton, but I think we are set at QB for the next 4-5 years with Orton.

Thank god.

[Bunion]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

Alas, we won't have Geno in the division much longer I don't think and that's a shame. If the Jets hold onto him though it's pretty much the same as playing Ryan Tannehill four times a year.

[trapezeus]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

This move to Orton is going to be the best thing for EJ's career. He wasn't ready to start, and he still did an adequate job... not perfect, of course, but decent.

Geno Smith proved yesterday he will never be an NFL quarterback.

If EJ rides the bench for 3 seasons, and lights it up on occasion during the preseason, we may be able to trade him away for a high round draft pick--follow the model that the patriots have used to perfection with Brady. Eventually we will draft "the one" that can replace Orton, but I think we are set at QB for the next 4-5 years with Orton.

Thank god.

i thanked this based on the first half. i think EJ got a huge break getting pulled once and not being pulled in 2 games and having a controversy. if you are a jets fan, you have to think " vick brought us back, the d held, and if not for pathetic penalties in the 3rd, vick couldn't have shown us a chance of being in that game."

What the jets have done to geno is ruining his confidence, they haven't given him many weapons and now no one will want to touch the guy including the jets.

EJ, for better or worse, may get another chance down the road and have a game manager game but the confidence to try longer throws etc. he'll keep getting a paycheck.

the second half, i don't know if i agree with. i don't think orton is a 4-5 year stop gap. because his contract gives him the option out. and if he's the penciled in starter for next year, no way he takes making 6mm a year as a starter. so do you want to throw him another fitz like contract for 4 years?

i'm not completely against it, but i'd like to see more than 4 games before we know for sure.

[JohnnyGold]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

i thanked this based on the first half. i think EJ got a huge break getting pulled once and not being pulled in 2 games and having a controversy. if you are a jets fan, you have to think " vick brought us back, the d held, and if not for pathetic penalties in the 3rd, vick couldn't have shown us a chance of being in that game."

What the jets have done to geno is ruining his confidence, they haven't given him many weapons and now no one will want to touch the guy including the jets.

EJ, for better or worse, may get another chance down the road and have a game manager game but the confidence to try longer throws etc. he'll keep getting a paycheck.

the second half, i don't know if i agree with. i don't think orton is a 4-5 year stop gap. because his contract gives him the option out. and if he's the penciled in starter for next year, no way he takes making 6mm a year as a starter. so do you want to throw him another fitz like contract for 4 years?

i'm not completely against it, but i'd like to see more than 4 games before we know for sure.

So many what ifs go into this scenario, but Orton is (by far and away) the best QB we've had since Kelly. You could make an argument for Bledsoe, but he had his shortcomings as well.

I have yet to see Orton toss up a fluttery duck that a defender has an easy look at picking off. He throws a crisp, accurate ball. YES, he makes mistakes, but all the good ones do. It's a risk/reward proposition, and the long balls to Sammy show that the reward side is there as well.

At no point during Fitz's tenure here did he look like he deserved that contract. We won in spite of him... that win over New England is a great example. The defense scored, Freddy was taking screen passes to the house, and Brady threw so many picks that day that it would have been strange if we didn't win... those teams were bad, lacking talent, and their record over time (4 wins 6 wins 6 wins) prove that. I can recall ADAMANTLY calling for Tavaris Jackson (!) to start during 2012, because he would have given us a better chance down the stretch run that included games against the Colts, Jags, Rams, and Titans... he didn't start, we didn't win, and now neither Fitz, Young, Jackson or any other QB (or wideout) from that period is on this roster.

Yes, I 100% think Orton deserves a 3-4-5 year deal after this season... maybe structured in such a way so it's a big payout these next 2-3 years, and then options for years 4-5 that won't hurt us drastically if he falls off a cliff.

And as for EJ... he can be our Ryan Mallet. Stashed away on our bench, learning the game, someone that can come in and look great against 3rd stringers 1x or 2x a summer, and land a nice spot starting for the Titans/Texans/Jags/Rams in 2-3 years. See if we can get a 2nd, 3rd, or (gasp!) even a first?? for him?

The Patriots have a perfect model for trading away QB "prospects" and getting a great return.. they don't draft well, because Beli is king over there... but if we gave Whaley an extra 2nd round pick in 2 years, that could be an exciting flip for EJ, and I would be ok with that.

We swung and missed on EJ... but it only cost us a game this season.

The future is bright for the Bills, it's a very exciting time to be a fan!

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

Have we learned our lessons of giving out big contracts average QBs having a big (half) season?

[Ingtar33]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

Have we learned our lessons of giving out big contracts average QBs having a big (half) season?

we don't have a choice. the contract he signed is basically a 1 year deal with an option for a 2nd. we'll have to sign him to an NFL starter extension this offseason; and if he keeps putting up these numbers we'll have an 8-8 or better record and orton will have more then 3000+ yards and 28+ tds... and probably in the discussion for a probowl spot. THATS how well he's played these past 4 games. We'll have to really overpay him if we want the extension if he keeps playing like this. That or let him walk in 2 years, where his market value might even be much higher then that. (if he had played a full season he'd be on pace for 4600 yards and 36 tds right now, and a dead lock for a probowl spot... do you want to try to sign THAT performance heading into FA? If orton has that type of season next year, he'll pull down a 100mil deal from someone that offseason. so signing orton to a 50mil deal this off season would be a steal)

[trapezeus]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

So many what ifs go into this scenario, but Orton is (by far and away) the best QB we've had since Kelly. You could make an argument for Bledsoe, but he had his shortcomings as well.

I have yet to see Orton toss up a fluttery duck that a defender has an easy look at picking off. He throws a crisp, accurate ball. YES, he makes mistakes, but all the good ones do. It's a risk/reward proposition, and the long balls to Sammy show that the reward side is there as well.

At no point during Fitz's tenure here did he look like he deserved that contract. We won in spite of him... that win over New England is a great example. The defense scored, Freddy was taking screen passes to the house, and Brady threw so many picks that day that it would have been strange if we didn't win... those teams were bad, lacking talent, and their record over time (4 wins 6 wins 6 wins) prove that. I can recall ADAMANTLY calling for Tavaris Jackson (!) to start during 2012, because he would have given us a better chance down the stretch run that included games against the Colts, Jags, Rams, and Titans... he didn't start, we didn't win, and now neither Fitz, Young, Jackson or any other QB (or wideout) from that period is on this roster.

Yes, I 100% think Orton deserves a 3-4-5 year deal after this season... maybe structured in such a way so it's a big payout these next 2-3 years, and then options for years 4-5 that won't hurt us drastically if he falls off a cliff.

And as for EJ... he can be our Ryan Mallet. Stashed away on our bench, learning the game, someone that can come in and look great against 3rd stringers 1x or 2x a summer, and land a nice spot starting for the Titans/Texans/Jags/Rams in 2-3 years. See if we can get a 2nd, 3rd, or (gasp!) even a first?? for him?

The Patriots have a perfect model for trading away QB "prospects" and getting a great return.. they don't draft well, because Beli is king over there... but if we gave Whaley an extra 2nd round pick in 2 years, that could be an exciting flip for EJ, and I would be ok with that.

We swung and missed on EJ... but it only cost us a game this season.

The future is bright for the Bills, it's a very exciting time to be a fan!

agreed that it's fun to be a fan again as we get into november with a winning record. feels odd.

orton is a .500 qb over 10 years. he's been screwed out of a couple jobs, but he wasn't amazing. even now, he isn't amazing. i'll give you that his accuracy is far and away better than what EJ was giving us.
but at 4 games and 3-1 against fairly weak opponents, it's worth it to me (and i get that that's not the case to everyone) that we wait and see what he has looked like through December 28 before we talk about extensions.

it may very well cost a lot more, but since he has the option to break from us. there is no way he doesn't break that current contract. $6MM for a starting QB is a pittance these days. at 31 years old, this is his last big contract.

i would rather pay the guy $15MM-20MM a season knowing he played well and got into a rhythm in this system, then pay $12MM now to find out we paid him simply for not being EJ. Because that cheaper $12MM contract will haunt us based on the number of years, much like fitz's contract hurt us when he left.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

we don't have a choice. the contract he signed is basically a 1 year deal with an option for a 2nd. we'll have to sign him to an NFL starter extension this offseason; and if he keeps putting up these numbers we'll have an 8-8 or better record and orton will have more then 3000+ yards and 28+ tds... and probably in the discussion for a probowl spot. THATS how well he's played these past 4 games. We'll have to really overpay him if we want the extension if he keeps playing like this. That or let him walk in 2 years, where his market value might even be much higher then that. (if he had played a full season he'd be on pace for 4600 yards and 36 tds right now, and a dead lock for a probowl spot... do you want to try to sign THAT performance heading into FA? If orton has that type of season next year, he'll pull down a 100mil deal from someone that offseason. so signing orton to a 50mil deal this off season would be a steal)

Chances of Orton getting a $100mil deal is zero anywhere in NFL, not even the Raiders are that crazy.

[ICRockets]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

I definitely think Kyle Orton is the best thing that could have happened to EJ. He gets to watch a guy do all the things I'm sure he felt he was CAPABLE of doing, but never was confident enough in the success of the play to pull the trigger. You looked at EJ's play while he was our starter, and he was very clearly afraid of making game-breaking mistakes. The kind of mistakes Geno makes all the time. And he was completely right to be afraid of making those mistakes, because if he did he was going to lose his job. In hindsight, not trying made him lose his job. So now he gets to go into the next chapter of his NFL career with a little fire in his belly to play more aggressive and see what guys like Sammy and Hogan and Woods can do to help him if he ever gets another shot.

[Historian]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

"Be humble in defeat....be even more humble in victory." -Marv Levy

[feldspar]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

Have we learned our lessons of giving out big contracts average QBs having a big (half) season?

Kyle Orton is signed through 2015, so we got him for another year.

His contract is not big.

...that's if I get the context of this comment.

[Novacane]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

we don't have a choice. the contract he signed is basically a 1 year deal with an option for a 2nd. we'll have to sign him to an NFL starter extension this offseason; and if he keeps putting up these numbers we'll have an 8-8 or better record and orton will have more then 3000+ yards and 28+ tds... and probably in the discussion for a probowl spot. THATS how well he's played these past 4 games. We'll have to really overpay him if we want the extension if he keeps playing like this. That or let him walk in 2 years, where his market value might even be much higher then that. (if he had played a full season he'd be on pace for 4600 yards and 36 tds right now, and a dead lock for a probowl spot... do you want to try to sign THAT performance heading into FA? If orton has that type of season next year, he'll pull down a 100mil deal from someone that offseason. so signing orton to a 50mil deal this off season would be a steal)

Yes. I'd rather wait and pay him the 100 mil if he puts up those kind of #'s over 2 years. I'd much rather be sure and pay more then pull another Fitz move. BTW I don't see him keeping pace with those #'s. Just like Fitz any average QB can have a hot streak.

[trapezeus]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

we don't have a choice. the contract he signed is basically a 1 year deal with an option for a 2nd. we'll have to sign him to an NFL starter extension this offseason; and if he keeps putting up these numbers we'll have an 8-8 or better record and orton will have more then 3000+ yards and 28+ tds... and probably in the discussion for a probowl spot. THATS how well he's played these past 4 games. We'll have to really overpay him if we want the extension if he keeps playing like this. That or let him walk in 2 years, where his market value might even be much higher then that. (if he had played a full season he'd be on pace for 4600 yards and 36 tds right now, and a dead lock for a probowl spot... do you want to try to sign THAT performance heading into FA? If orton has that type of season next year, he'll pull down a 100mil deal from someone that offseason. so signing orton to a 50mil deal this off season would be a steal)

since pegula doesnt' seem to stress about keeping things cheap, i imagine that we get more competitive. if he earns the huge payday, give it to him. paying it forward and hoping you got a steal (outside rookie contracts) seems like the recipe of disasters.

a guy like orton should not want to sign a mid season contract. he's on fire in his mind and deserves a great payday. the guys who sign are guys looking to mitigate injury risk and feel validated for production thus far and tend to not perform

that's my opnion in broad strokes. definitely outliers that exist.

so if it was my money and i was comfortable paying a guy his market rate, show me a great result, and i'll pay you what you deserve. that's a good policy that diverges from russ brandon's keep costs low and let people walk.

[Typ0]

Re: We were bummed (that) he was pulled - from Bills players

I can see Orton keeping up with these numbers. The guy can play that's why he's not in Dallas. He was sitting waiting for the right offer because he believes he can play and was looking for the right place/situation to play. He is not having a hot streak he's playing like Kyle Orton.