Our Depth and Whaley

[justasportsfan]

Anyone think Whaley has done a good job finding depth for this team?

Defensively, I think he has finding Charles and Wynn.

Offensively Whaley however found Dixon and Brown.
The OL is still a problem but I wonder if its an OL coach/Marrone problem developing these players. D'Alessandris/Gailey did better with less.

[BillsOverDolphins]

He ****ed up the most important position

[trapezeus]

i think the depth is the best in years. we've made it to week 8 and no street pick-ups. Leon Joe, right a bell?

I also don't think the OL issues are a result of talent acquisition. the fact every player has struggled no matter who they put in starts to make it seem coach/scheme oriented to me. i don't watch the line a ton when watching the game live, but i feel like when you see the breakdowns on replays, there is always one or two guys just standing there blocking no one.

if it was a talent issue, guys would be steamrolled and pushed into the QB and sacks by the bushells. t

the bills just seem to have guys that arent' gettting or buying what's being taught. and the sad reality of that if it is true is that OL play can't get better if the coaches stay the same or are dedicated to what theyve been doing for 8 weeks at the very least.

that's my opinion, don't know if anyone else shares that view point.

[justasportsfan]

He ****ed up the most important position

I agree, but I wonder if that was Nix's screw up. NIx was still in charge when we drafted EJ.

IMO< opinion Kolb getting injured forced them to start EJ sooner than they wanted to.

[Forward_Lateral]

He ****ed up the most important position

Didn't Buddy draft EJ?

[The King]

Depth is the hardest thing to come by when you're rebuilding. Losing Kiko was a major blow, but the Bills haven't missed a beat. I think Schwartz is a tool, but I hope he stays for a while. I think his antics are enough to keep teams clear or him. Also I think Pepper Johnson might deserve some credit for the adaptability of the DLine.

[stuckincincy]

Depth is the hardest thing to come by when you're rebuilding. Losing Kiko was a major blow, but the Bills haven't missed a beat. I think Schwartz is a tool, but I hope he stays for a while. I think his antics are enough to keep teams clear or him. Also I think Pepper Johnson might deserve some credit for the adaptability of the DLine.

Heh, I remember when some folks were clamoring to can Marrone and ensconce Schwartz as HC.

[DesertFox24]

Whaley deserves credit as does nix. Yes they have not found our franchise qb. That being said they acted and got Orton and at 31 he may be able to be our qb for this year and many more after. That would be perfect because it would allow us to wait to get the guy we want and develop him. Additionally of we can resign our key guys we will have the flexibility now to move up in the draft to get out qb, not this year. That is what happens when you have a good qb. He still has plenty of arm and is playing well and at 31 he is not going to retire anytime soon.

[HAMMER]

He ****ed up the most important position

Orton is 3-1, if that's F####ng it up I'm good with that.

[trapezeus]

Orton is 3-1, if that's F####ng it up I'm good with that.

that's a little simplistic. Definitely has been an upgrade, but the offense still is largley not clicking. who's fault that is is hard to figure out. to me it seems OC related. if the bills didnt get a handful of those turnovers in the redzone, we wouldn't have scored any points by going 3 and out.

orton's average has been a .500 qb, 4 games into his starting role, it's hard to believe something dramatically changed. i know he's been snake bitten by some organizations bailing on him for no reason...but still. I want to see the rest of the season before i know if we have a guy who is servicable for a few more years. regardless, i think if he's the starting qb next year, he will be paid like one. and that has to go into the equation. is it beetter to pay orton to be slightly above average, or keep paying the DL to win games. I

f they weren't as good as they have been, i don't know if we have wins against miami, detroit, minnesota and NYJ. that's 4 of 5 wins where their dominance took over. i haven't seen the offense take over a game in hackett's time here.

furthermore, i don't know if hackett wasn't the son of a football family that he still has a job.

[Topas]

He ****ed up the most important position

Well, but so did 26 other GMs. Tell me how many good QBs are in the league. This is not easy. Then again, we are experts in missing on QBs since we do this for more than a decade. But you cannot blame Whaley for that.

And then again, at least he signed Orton. That was a good job, especially that everybody laughed at him because we are paying Orton so much money. But who is laughing now?

[swiper]

Anyone think Whaley has done a good job finding depth for this team?

Defensively, I think he has finding Charles and Wynn.

Offensively Whaley however found Dixon and Brown.
The OL is still a problem but I wonder if its an OL coach/Marrone problem developing these players. D'Alessandris/Gailey did better with less.

After watching Dixon and Brown suck all day yesterday are you actually saying getting these two was a good thing???

[swiper]

Whaley whiffed on all three o-linemen he drafted in 2014. Henderson doesn't get as much criticism b/c he was a 7th rounder. But he got owned at will yesterday by the Jets.

His best pick (that he didn't sell the farm for) was Preston Brown.

[justasportsfan]

After watching Dixon and Brown suck all day yesterday are you actually saying getting these two was a good thing???

good point. I think OL is the problem.

[stuckincincy]

The Orton signing has panned out so far. He and the team are 3 and 1, playing 3 weak sisters, some with injury problems, and his performance against NE was decent - but 5 sacks...divide them up between the OL, or him, as you like.

So far, so good.

Black eye for Manual. BUF has been remarkably injury-free until Spiller/Jackson, but had the good fortune of playing the train wreck NYJ last week.

Bye week coming up. And KC at home squares off against NYJ this coming Sunday. They are currently 4 -3 and need to whip NYJ to keep pace in their division.

Speaking of bye weeks - they extend out to week 12 this season:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000343760/article/2014-nfl-schedule-when-is-your-teams-bye-week

[trapezeus]

Whaley whiffed on all three o-linemen he drafted in 2014. Henderson doesn't get as much criticism b/c he was a 7th rounder. But he got owned at will yesterday by the Jets.

His best pick (that he didn't sell the farm for) was Preston Brown.

to me, even with as bad as the bills historically have been at picking, missing on the same position 3x in one draft seems unbelievable to me. like you were trying to suck at the job.

the easier explanation for me to buy is to think the OL coach and the OC aren't getting the team prepared. i've never played OL, so i don't know what to be looking for. but it's hard to believe a line could have this much trouble. even wood seems out of his element at this point.

[coastal]

Levitre was completely replaceable doncha know?!

[better days]

Heh, I remember when some folks were clamoring to can Marrone and ensconce Schwartz as HC.

I would like to see you link any posts that did that.

One or two people may have said that, but I doubt many have.

[better days]

Whaley whiffed on all three o-linemen he drafted in 2014. Henderson doesn't get as much criticism b/c he was a 7th rounder. But he got owned at will yesterday by the Jets.

His best pick (that he didn't sell the farm for) was Preston Brown.

Give it a little time. OL players can take some time to develop.

And through 8 games, Henderson is playing like the 1st round pick he would have been if not for his off field issues.

[DesertFox24]

Whaley whiffed on all three o-linemen he drafted in 2014. Henderson doesn't get as much criticism b/c he was a 7th rounder. But he got owned at will yesterday by the Jets.

His best pick (that he didn't sell the farm for) was Preston Brown.

Henderson played well not sure what game you saw.

Richardson and CK I think will be one heck of a guard tandem next year.

Richardson played in spread attack and just needs some time. CK I think could be an awesome guard.

[The Jokeman]

to me, even with as bad as the bills historically have been at picking, missing on the same position 3x in one draft seems unbelievable to me. like you were trying to suck at the job.

the easier explanation for me to buy is to think the OL coach and the OC aren't getting the team prepared. i've never played OL, so i don't know what to be looking for. but it's hard to believe a line could have this much trouble. even wood seems out of his element at this point.

The OL has been bad this year but I also going to fault Orton for some of that. As there were times yesterday he just stood in the pocket and for some odd reason just didn't throw it away and took the sack. Gannon brought it up as it's a fair analysis as to me Orton is a good QB but not great. Of course their inability to get a serious push for the running game also a concern.

That said I've been praising Whaley for most of his work this offseason minus the trade for Watkins and trade of SJ13 but it looks like I might have been wrong about that.

[trapezeus]

this game i think orton knew that as long as the jets kept being a disaster, it was worth taking sacks and not forcing anything to reverse the momentum. especially since we kind of already did that at the end of the half. to that extent, i don't really blame him. it was the smart move of the options presented.

without an all 22 cam, i would think the bills routes were all more long developing routes. and i blame hackett for not having more shorter passing plays to expose the weakened jets secondary. that might have helped set up the run.

it was nice that orton made passes over 15 yards. it's that situation where EJ would not have tried and that 14-7 lead would have disappeared. the ability to go long with pressure created that 84 yard pass.

[YardRat]

This is the best roster we've had in years IMO, top to bottom. Nix deserves some of that credit, Whaley the rest, not only for finding depth players but also acquiring starters. There are very few vet holdovers from pre-Nix, and the ones that are still here are pretty good. I care if EJ ends up busting completely and still hope he salvages something of a career, but if he does that and whether or not Watkins was worth the price is hardly enough to diminish the rest of the body of work, which has been really good.

[stuckincincy]

I would like to see you link any posts that did that.

One or two people may have said that, but I doubt many have.

Go do it yourself. I'm not your factotem. If you want to refute me, go ahead, but do your own legwork.

[Jry44]

Whaley whiffed on all three o-linemen he drafted in 2014. Henderson doesn't get as much criticism b/c he was a 7th rounder. But he got owned at will yesterday by the Jets.

His best pick (that he didn't sell the farm for) was Preston Brown.

So... you already know that he's wiffed on these guys 8 games into thier rookie season? Since when is.... any NFL player a finished product half way through thier rookie season??

[Jry44]

Levitre was completely replaceable doncha know?!

He hasn't been worth even a fraction of his contract for the Titans. Ask any Titans fan.

[trapezeus]

He hasn't been worth even a fraction of his contract for the Titans. Ask any Titans fan.

even if that's true,t he bills should have known they weren't going to keep him a year or two out and started getting replacements via the draft. instead, they left it wide open and we are paying for that right now. if this team had one good guard, we'd have the chance of having a good run game. i still think this is largely a coaching issue as opposed to player talent, but this team with levitre would have been better.


i think the titans are just a team in chaos. doubt it's a reflection of levitre on a stand alone basis.

[BillsOverDolphins]

Orton is 3-1, if that's F####ng it up I'm good with that.


Well, but so did 26 other GMs. Tell me how many good QBs are in the league. This is not easy. Then again, we are experts in missing on QBs since we do this for more than a decade. But you cannot blame Whaley for that.

And then again, at least he signed Orton. That was a good job, especially that everybody laughed at him because we are paying Orton so much money. But who is laughing now?

umm, yeah...I credit Marrone with beating down their door and demanding they get him.

[better days]

Go do it yourself. I'm not your factotem. If you want to refute me, go ahead, but do your own legwork.

I don't have to. You said some folks wanted Marrone replaced by Schwartz as HC.

I am saying the number of people that wanted that are FEW & far between.

[Jry44]

even if that's true,t he bills should have known they weren't going to keep him a year or two out and started getting replacements via the draft. instead, they left it wide open and we are paying for that right now. if this team had one good guard, we'd have the chance of having a good run game. i still think this is largely a coaching issue as opposed to player talent, but this team with levitre would have been better.


i think the titans are just a team in chaos. doubt it's a reflection of levitre on a stand alone basis.

I agree that a better plan to replace him needed to be in place. He just simply wasn't worth $8 million a year. And i don't agree that our problems now are entirely scheme related. Every scheme will look bad with bad players. Richardson, Pears, and Henderson have been beaten like drums. I feel like two can still develop. Pears however has no business starting on any team.

[swiper]

to me, even with as bad as the bills historically have been at picking, missing on the same position 3x in one draft seems unbelievable to me. like you were trying to suck at the job.

the easier explanation for me to buy is to think the OL coach and the OC aren't getting the team prepared. i've never played OL, so i don't know what to be looking for. but it's hard to believe a line could have this much trouble. even wood seems out of his element at this point.

All three of those linemen were reaches where Whaley drafted them. "Economy picks" or "value picks" if you will. This SHOULD have taught him a lesson. Kuoandijo dropped into the 2nd round for a reason. No one saw him as a good tackle in the NFL. Whaley saw him sitting there and couldn't help himself. Richardson, the Outland trophy winner, dropped to the 5th for a REASON. And Henderson, we already know about his story.

Whaley thought he was slick. He wasn't.

[swiper]

So... you already know that he's wiffed on these guys 8 games into thier rookie season? Since when is.... any NFL player a finished product half way through thier rookie season??

Talking about the o-linemen. Brown and Watkins will be good picks, as I said. But the o-line - if they can't show ANYTHING at all, they aren't going to develop suddenly in 2016. If you cannot see that. I can't help you.

[swiper]

Henderson played well not sure what game you saw.


No he didn't. He got owned repeatedly.

[better days]

No he didn't. He got owned repeatedly.

Henderson is a ROOKIE OT. He played against a VERY GOOD Jets defense & played as well as anyone could expect.

Through 8 games, Henderson is playing like a FIRST RND draft pick.

[psubills62]

http://www.nfl.com/teams/buffalobills/statistics?season=2008&team=BUF&seasonType=

Take a look at one of the rosters under Jauron and see if we have more talent.

Whaley is clearly not perfect, and as I've said multiple times there are decisions of his that I disagree with. Drafting Manuel was one. That said, the guy has clearly brought more overall roster talent here than we've had in a long time. The fact that they even drafted someone like Kiko Alonso was big, much less having a defense that can win games without him.

I think if you look at the 2007 stats you'll see John DiGiorgio with the second most tackles on the team. Yikes.

[feldspar]

Buddy Nix stepped down as General Manager on May 13, 2013.

Doug Whaley has only been GM for almost a year-and-a-half. This year's draft was his first one as General Manager.

If you really want to see how the current Bills roster was built and see how and when we acquired all of the players on it, take a look at this simple chart, which I find pretty interesting:

http://www.rosterresource.com/nfl-buffalo-bills-how-assembled-chart/

[YardRat]

Talking about the o-linemen. Brown and Watkins will be good picks, as I said. But the o-line - if they can't show ANYTHING at all, they aren't going to develop suddenly in 2016. If you cannot see that. I can't help you.

Maybe not suddenly, but they still have the rest of this season and next year's pre-season to develop...a lot can happen over that amount of time in a player's development. The likelihood of all three ending up quality starters is pretty slim, but at least we're giving guys with high ceilings and some kind of pedigree an opportunity to contribute as opposed to other picks in the past like Wang, Calloway and Pennington. Not to mention the fact that we're finally trying to addres the oline through the draft as opposed to completely ignoring it.

[better days]

Maybe not suddenly, but they still have the rest of this season and next year's pre-season to develop...a lot can happen over that amount of time in a player's development. The likelihood of all three ending up quality starters is pretty slim, but at least we're giving guys with high ceilings and some kind of pedigree an opportunity to contribute as opposed to other picks in the past like Wang, Calloway and Pennington. Not to mention the fact that we're finally trying to addres the oline through the draft as opposed to completely ignoring it.

And it is not like the Bills used their entire draft on the OL.

We are talking about only three draft picks.

The 2nd rnd pick, T Cyrus Kouandjio is not starting because Glenn & Henderson (a 7th rnd pick with 1st rnd talent) are ahead of him.

G Cyril Richardson is a FIFTH rnd pick. FEW fifth rnd picks even make a team so everyone should be happy that the Bills think enough of Richardson to keep him on the roster.