Kyle Orton - a few observations

[ghz in pittsburgh]

<tbody>
Career Statsmore (http://www.billszone.com/players/kyleorton/careerstats?id=ORT716150)


Season
Team

Passing
Rushing
Fumbles



G
GS
Comp
Att
Pct
Yds
Avg
TD
Int
Sck
SckY
Rate
Att
Yds
Avg
TD
FUM
Lost


2014
Buffalo Bills (http://www.billszone.com/teams/buffalobills/profile?team=BUF)
4
4
95
141
67.4
1,128
8.0
9
3
17
98
104.0
4
5
1.3
0
2
2





2013
Dallas Cowboys (http://www.billszone.com/teams/dallascowboys/profile?team=DAL)
3
1
33
51
64.7
398
7.8
2
2
0
0
85.3
1
8
8.0
0
--
--





2012
Dallas Cowboys (http://www.billszone.com/teams/dallascowboys/profile?team=DAL)
1
0
9
10
90.0
89
8.9
1
0
0
0
137.1
--
--
--
--
--
--





2011
Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.billszone.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC)
4
3
59
97
60.8
779
8.0
1
2
1
5
81.1
6
-4
-0.7
0
--
--





2011
Denver Broncos (http://www.billszone.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN)
5
5
91
155
58.7
979
6.3
8
7
9
49
75.7
5
17
3.4
0
2
2





2010
Denver Broncos (http://www.billszone.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN)
13
13
293
498
58.8
3,653
7.3
20
9
34
243
87.5
22
98
4.5
0
4
4





2009
Denver Broncos (http://www.billszone.com/teams/denverbroncos/profile?team=DEN)
16
15
336
541
62.1
3,802
7.0
21
12
29
159
86.8
24
71
3.0
0
4
2





2008
Chicago Bears (http://www.billszone.com/teams/chicagobears/profile?team=CHI)
15
15
272
465
58.5
2,972
6.4
18
12
27
160
79.6
24
49
2.0
3
6
5





2007
Chicago Bears (http://www.billszone.com/teams/chicagobears/profile?team=CHI)
3
3
43
80
53.8
478
6.0
3
2
2
12
73.9
5
-1
-0.2
0
2
0





2006
Chicago Bears (http://www.billszone.com/teams/chicagobears/profile?team=CHI)
0
0
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
--
0.0
--
--
--
--
--
--





2005
Chicago Bears (http://www.billszone.com/teams/chicagobears/profile?team=CHI)
15
15
190
368
51.6
1,869
5.1
9
13
30
190
59.7
24
44
1.8
0
12
5





TOTAL
1,421
2,406
59.1
16,147
6.7
92
62
149
916
81.3
115
287
2.5
3
32
20

</tbody>

Looking at his stats, you can't help thinking that he's going to cool down some after this 4 game stretch. A consistent mid 80 QB rating guy, I doubt he's going to go to over 100 rating and keep it up. Also the TD to INT ratio. But I do think, the AVG of 8 yard per attempt can be fairly close to what he might windup because for the first time in his career, he's in a system where they want to stretch vertically, not the short stuff he had in Chicago and Denver.

Very very few QB flourishes and matures after 10 years in NFL. Rich Gannon had 5 great years after the first 10 so so to bad years but I want to point out that for every Rich Gannon, there are probably 99 other vet QBs who are washed up just as their career past indicates.

Gannon had a great season in KC before he jumped ship to Oakland, getting to his favored WCO and had great weapons of Rice and Brown. Orton, on the other hand, had to teach the Bills talented receivers how to watch film. I think this might be one of the biggest misstep of the management last year that all QBs and WRs were so green and Stevie Johnson apparently didn't do enough mentoring job. It is widely reported that Orton grabbed his receivers watched film, show them what to watch, and did some early morning work together (Manuel did some end of the day work with the receivers when he was the starter but looking back, they probably didn't know what they were doing - merely reps). It may also point to the weakness of our receiver coach; they fired one last year and didn't seem to improve this year until Orton got in.

I do believe, however, Orton can be successful under Marrone for a few years because his run first philosophy. You have to believe that they are doing all they can to fix the run game and I'd bet a running back will be drafted pretty high next year. Orton is not Manuel; he's going to take sacks, a lot of sacks. That has fumbles and injuries written all over the place. The running game is the best remedy for that.

To be honest, I'm a little bit surprised to see the long balls he has thrown the last 4 games and won't be surprised to see more of that kind when Goodwin returns. Pound in the middle with the runs and bombs down the field is likely what we can expect to see from this offense after personnel and strategy changes from the 1st 8 games. The defense need to hold opposing team until the offensive bombs explode.

One thing I do worry is the pace of sacks he's taken thus far. I do think he can survie the season at that pace.

Lastly I can the feeling Mike Williams situation having a lot to do with Orton. It seems Orton has gotten the young receivers' ear and meshed well. Also the skillset. Has Mike Williams caught a pass since Orton became the QB?

[better days]

Well, Orton would not be the first QB to develop into a very good QB later in his career.

He will be a Bill next year but if he keeps playing like he has, I would be happy if the Bills signed him to a 4 year contract this offseason.

[yordad]

Has Orton had weapons like this before? Was Orton given the reigns as the undeniable leader like this? Did Orton, who had been working second team reps with Hogan, say he wanted Hogan over Williams? Did Williams do enough in his early playing time to hold the job? If Williams is the number 3, then who plays in the slot? Hogan is better in the slot than Williams and Woods/Watkins are better outside.

Orton has done this work against 3 TOP FIVE passing defenses while only working with the first team for 1 month. I think he may actually get better. The problem thus far is the pass blocking prevents us from passing more and passing deeper.

[gebobs]

Well, Orton would not be the first QB to develop into a very good QB later in his career.

He will be a Bill next year but if he keeps playing like he has, I would be happy if the Bills signed him to a 4 year contract this offseason.

If history is any indication, they'll ink him next week for 7 years, $75M and he will promptly go back to being Orton.

[better days]

If history is any indication, they'll ink him next week for 7 years, $75M and he will promptly go back to being Orton.

Well, history is no indication.

The Bills are a NEW organization from the owner down.

[Ed]

I'd rather just let him play out his contract before offering any kind of extension. $7 mil for next season isn't peanuts and it's not like he has any other options.

I think Orton has improved as a player and is in a better situation than he's had before, so I don't think we can just assume that his performance is going to drop off. Considering how little time he's had with the Bills, I would imagine he's only getting more comfortable and confident with each week.

[better days]

I'd rather just let him play out his contract before offering any kind of extension. $7 mil for next season isn't peanuts and it's not like he has any other options.

I think Orton has improved as a player and is in a better situation than he's had before, so I don't think we can just assume that his performance is going to drop off. Considering how little time he's had with the Bills, I would imagine he's only getting more comfortable and confident with each week.

Well, like I said if Orton continues to play as he has, I expect the Bills to make the playoffs.

I would sign him to a new 4 year contract after the season while he is still under contract to the Bills.

If he continues to play like he has next year without a new contract he will be much more expensive to sign at the end of next year.

[gebobs]

Has Orton had weapons like this before?
In Chicago, his top targets were Muhsin Muhammed and Bernard Berrian. Muhammed's best years were already behind him in Carolina and Berrian was at the peak of an average career. Hester, Olsen, and Forte were all pretty green by the time Orton was traded. So, not much.

In Denver, of course, he had Brandon Marshall for one year, but the Broncos got tired of his antics and shipped him to Miami. Other than that, he had Jabar Gafney and Eddie Royal. In 2010, Brandon Lloyd had an all-pro year, but he was traded the next year too. His receivers during his tenure with Denver could be characterized as tumultuous, at best.

IMHO, he's not been blessed with many weapons over his career. With Fred and CJ gone, he has a lot less than he did two weeks ago. That's going to put a lot of pressure on Watkins but so far he's shown that he can handle it. Hogan, Chandler and Woods will have to step it up. And with Williams still on the team after the deadline, it would be nice if he earned some of that salary.

Is there any hope that Goodwin will emerge?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Orton has a PLAYER option next year so he does have options.

The guy has an "indifference" demeanor, but the end of Detroit game showed that inside the guy has a lot of fire, consistent with the players and Marrone has been saying. He was never a media darling (like other jouney man QB we had like Fitz), always unappreciated in his career - in Chicago, they clamoured for better things like Cutler; in Denver, fans booed him because he's in Tebow's way. In Dallas, he's forgotten man because the Romo's limelights.

He's getting some love here in Buffalo only because he's been better than Manuel. Otherwise, the amount turnoevers he was giving would got him killed in a lot of places.At the end of the day, performance decides everything. 4 games in for Orton, opponents will sure key on him from now on, particularly when the running game is not producing. And there are holes in his game that teams can explore.

[Captain gameboy]

Here's a small observation.

EJ would not throw until he saw daylight between the receiver and DB.

Orton seems to see the dynamic between the DB and the receiver.

On two of his big plays the last two weeks, the big conversion to Chandler in the Viking game and the opening drive TD to Woods, Orton pulled the trigger while the DB's back was turned.

He seems to look for it. Both plays were covered "OK." But both times he threw when the DB's back was to the throw.

[HAMMER]

Orton is doing a very good job, especially for coming in so late.

I believe the offense will take another step forward before the KC game with all the extra time they have. People need to stop looking for the negative and see that there are many positives in Orton's game. He will never be Manning, Brady, or Rodgers, but he is already at the top of the second tier of QB's with his play so far.

No reason he can't improve further and lead this team to a playoff berth.

[casdhf]

Isn't the BYE week an actual trip away from football? Can they work this week?

[Forward_Lateral]

Regarding Mike Williams, at a point in the game on Sunday, they showed Orton visibly displeased with Mike on the sidelines. Mike was just standing there like a dope.

[gebobs]

I believe the offense will take another step forward before the KC game with all the extra time they have.
I sure hope so. That will be the tail end of my road trip from Atlanta to Erie (Otters on Friday) to Buffalo (Sabs/Pens on Saturday).

[DraftBoy]

Isn't the BYE week an actual trip away from football? Can they work this week?

They still have team meetings, film room work, and practice I believe.

[gebobs]

Isn't the BYE week an actual trip away from football? Can they work this week?


They still have team meetings, film room work, and practice I believe.

NFLPA requires at least four days off.

[mysticsoto]

Regarding Mike Williams, at a point in the game on Sunday, they showed Orton visibly displeased with Mike on the sidelines. Mike was just standing there like a dope.

Orton: "I said I wanted CREAM in my latte...*****!"

LOL! It's interesting to me that Hogan is getting more play time than Williams...I'd love to know why he's in the doghouse...attitude issues?

[Fletch]

Orton: "I said I wanted CREAM in my latte...*****!"

LOL! It's interesting to me that Hogan is getting more play time than Williams...I'd love to know why he's in the doghouse...attitude issues?

Maybe he's just not as good as everyone thought.

[mysticsoto]

Maybe he's just not as good as everyone thought.

Maybe you're right...others appear to just be outplaying him:

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2014/10/bills_offensive_coordinator_nathaniel_hackett_explains_mike_williams_falling_dow.html

[WagonCircler]

Maybe he's just not as good as everyone thought.

Or maybe Hogan is better than anyone thought.

[casdhf]

Marrone definitely has an ego. I feel he will start inferior players over guys he doesnt like. Urbick for example.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/10/28/7079115/geno-smith-jets-michael-vick-kyle-orton-bills

Some interesting stuff -- looks like even defensive players notice the difference.

"Having Kyle has proved to be very beneficial,'' Bills defensive end Mario Williams said. "When he is given time, he can make plays. He can make throws. He stands in there with great heart. And when he gets hit, he lets his blockers know he got hit. And why. He lets them know and kicks their butts in gear.''

Manuel added: "People may see what he is doing on the field right now but they don't see his approach. The way he speaks to the offensive coordinator (Nathaniel Hackett), the way he talks to everybody in the quarterback room, the way he talks to all of the offensive players. He lets you know what he expects. No, he demands it. It has become a collective thing. Kyle will go through all of the plays with the coaches during the week and be very clear about 'I like that' or 'I don't like that.' I'm watching. I'm learning. Every practice. Every play in every game. I'm always prepared if my number is called. But I am definitely learning how to do some things by watching him.''

Whaley said. "He is a polished, veteran quarterback and player."He has become a big part of getting our guys expecting to win instead of hoping to win..."

[Night Train]

I like the fact he reminded me to re-watch Napoleon Dynamite again.

Love that flick.

[gebobs]

Well, history is no indication.

The Bills are a NEW organization from the owner down.

No kidding? I hadn't heard. ;-)

I really need to use more of these winkie-smilie things so people can tell when I'm being sarcastic.

[YardRat]

Marrone definitely has an ego. I feel he will start inferior players over guys he doesnt like. Urbick for example.

Is that on Marrone or Morris?

Also, I'll believe they are 'working very hard on improving the running game' when I see what they roll out against KC.

[Meathead]

marrone said that one of the reasons white lightnin is getting more plays than black lumberjack is bc he plays all the wr positions. i dont think williams plays slot at all, does he? seems like hes strictly an outside guy

[The Doc]

If you watched Orton like I have throughout his career you'd know he was always good. Far better than his stats.

[Woodman]

Or maybe Hogan is better than anyone thought.

This is the accurate observation.

[Figster]

If Kyle Orton continues playing well for the rest of the season,

we got our guy IMO (3-5 years)

[Cleve]

After 4 games, Orton is top ten in stats among Quarterbacks in several key measures - Quarterback rating, yards per attempt, completion percentage, and yards per game - and this includes a bruising loss to New England. At this point, he appears to be a substantial upgrade from Fitzpatrick, Manuel, Losman, Edwards, ad nauseum.

Buffalo fans can only hope it continues. It's been a long time since Buffalo has enjoyed a COMPETENT QB at the helm.