Does anyone want to re-sign Orton?

[X-Era]

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-discussion/2014/10/29/7091313/kyle-orton-ryan-fitzpatrick-contracts-buffalo-bills

Apparently he has a player option and some fans want him extended before he might leave in free agency.

Personally, I would extend him if a) he takes us to the playoffs and b) we are convinced he will do it again after this year. Anything else seems like perpetuating mediocrity to me and I'd rather keep looking for the true answer.

He is the best option to win now. I think I've seen enough to believe that. Marrone deserves credit for making the right call here.

However, he does not seem to me to be a future. Can he win now? Sure. Can he win enough for the playoffs? Maybe. But before we go down the road of claiming we don't need a playoff caliber QB let's simply set that argument aside and address whether Orton can do two things... 1) win a game or two when it's all on him to do so and 2) not lose us games where he is a major reason that we lost.

If Orton is nothing more than a stopgap we are unfortunately stuck QB searching again. I want contingency plans. If we want to extend him based on confidence in his abilities based on the aforementioned questions, I immediately want the search for the future to begin anew.

Can EJ still be the answer? It's possible. But I want competition for the QB-of-the-future position with a legit prospect to begin as soon as possible.

In the end, I'm fine with a veteran QB sized contract if we are convinced Orton is the short term answer. But, I'm also fine with seeing where he can take us this year and letting him leave.

What say you?

[gebobs]

He's due to make $5.4M next year. I really can't see anyone signing him for more.

[Ed]

Orton has found a good situation for himself. I don't see him wanting to leave after this season if things continue to go well. I didn't realize next year was an option year, so the Bills should and likely will extend him. They key will be structuring the contract so that they can part ways easily in a couple years if it doesn't work out. I don't want a Fitzpatrick situation where he's still one of the biggest cap hits on our team a couple years after he's gone.

I wouldn't give up on EJ still being the future until we can see if he's developed at all by learning from Orton. He definitely at least seems to be embracing that role for now. They should still always be looking to add young competition though.

So I say extend Orton, continue to groom EJ, and add another young qb. There's no reason to get rid of a qb until you have someone better to replace them.

[Goobylal]

I say wait until the season plays out. They made a mistake signing Fitz and I don't want the same thing repeated with Orton.

[trapezeus]

5.6MM is nothing for a starter. if he thinks he's the starter next year, he doesn't take the option. if the bills end up with an amazing experience (playoffs), then he'll walk and we will have to pay to keep him.

even if he has an outlier season for himself, it's worth 12-16MM per season for 3-4 seasons if he shows 12 games of above .500 football.

that really will stop gap us and give us a chance to either develop EJ or get another guy in to push ej and eventually take over. either way, EJ or the rookie won't have pressure to step in right away. and EJ would be a good backup since he's already capable of playing .500 ball.

[feldspar]

No need to think about this just yet.

The guy has started four games for the Bills.

[PromoTheRobot]

I say wait until the season plays out. They made a mistake signing Fitz and I don't want the same thing repeated with Orton.

Yeah. Wait for him to leave. Then offer him a deal.

[starrymessenger]

Orton is a smooth operator.
No doubt he knew that the Bills were a team with young talent on O and a solid D. A team a guard or two away from being legit as contenders for the Division or a wild card spot - if they had a QB.
He thinks he's that guy. The last person who will ever sell Kyle Orton short is Kyle Orton.
If he holds up and has a truly stellar year he knows he will be in demand.
If he leads the Bills to the playoffs he will have Whaley exactly where he wants him. That's his personal agenda right now.
He wants money. As much money as he can get.
Who can blame him?

[Mace]

The ball is in Orton's court with the player option. The thing to keep in mind is that he's only 31 and with his style of play can have about 5 more productive years.

How well he does is the obvious measure for us, but how much of a beating he takes here or how much he likes being here is probably more relevant to Orton. He could have skated along comfortably behind Romo for years in Dallas, or someone else will surely want him if he lights it up here.

The Bills won't rush to extend him waiting to see, and Orton won't rush to extend waiting to see.

Personally, and I think this is both the Bills and Orton's perspective, I'd simply give him a chance to play his way into a new contract, in which case he's worth it, or not, in which case he isn't. I'd keep the channels open and friendly.

I don't think either the Bills or Orton will go along with middlin' or less. At the very least Orton will be able to pick his backup job again now. "Maybe" doesn't suit either side.

[jimmifli]

There's roster spots where you to try to save money and roster spots where you don't.

For example, we overpaid Aaron Williams last season by signing him early. I suspect that contract will be a bargain by the final two years. If we're wrong, we aren't sunk, and if we're right we can overpay a free agent. It's a smart risk.

We tried the same thing at QB with FitzBeard. Unfortunately, when the QB doesn't work out it kills the team. So we rushed into a deal hoping to save a few million per season and we're still paying for it. Orton won't leave if we pay him a fair market rate, so there isn't much risk in waiting. Worst case, we end up paying him what he's worth. QB isn't the position to worry about cap space.

[better days]

He's due to make $5.4M next year. I really can't see anyone signing him for more.

Well, NOBODY except the Bills can sign him for more next year.

I have said if Kyle continues to play as well as he has for the rest of the season, I expect the Bills to make the playoffs & would like to see them extend his contract.

[Mace]

Well, NOBODY except the Bills can sign him for more next year.

Anyone can if Orton exercises his option. It's a player option, means he can choose another year or bye bye.

[starrymessenger]

Well, NOBODY except the Bills can sign him for more next year.

I have said if Kyle continues to play as well as he has for the rest of the season, I expect the Bills to make the playoffs & would like to see them extend his contract.

How do you figure that?
Anybody can pay him whatever they want, if he's agreeable.

[starrymessenger]

Anyone can if Orton exercises his option. It's a player option, means he can choose another year or bye bye.
Isn't it "if he doesn't exercise"?
Or is it that he is already under contract and can opt out?

[YardRat]

Orton is no dummy, and the manner in which he leveraged himself out of Dallas and put him into the best position possible should be proof enough of that. If next year is voidable on his say-so, you can bet the farm he will. Give him four more games, than check back on this thread prior to the last month of the season.

- - - Updated - - -


Isn't it "if he doesn't exercise"?
Or is it that he is already under contract and can opt out?

It's 'voidable' so a two year contract that he can opt out of the second year, the way I understand it.

[starrymessenger]

Orton is no dummy, and the manner in which he leveraged himself out of Dallas and put him into the best position possible should be proof enough of that. If next year is voidable on his say-so, you can bet the farm he will. Give him four more games, than check back on this thread prior to the last month of the season.

- - - Updated - - -



It's 'voidable' so a two year contract that he can opt out of the second year, the way I understand it.

Gotcha.
Thanks.

[OpIv37]

EJ sucks.

We have no first round draft pick next year. The OL needs work and the RB situation is unclear, but the rest of the team is good enough to win now. We can't afford to keep that DL together forever.

Who are we going to get that's better? Who are we going to get that can win now?

I'd like to see us sign Orton for 2-3 more years and hope we can find a QB in the draft in that time.

[Novacane]

Decide at the end of the season. Anyone can have a hot streak for a few games.

[OpIv37]

btw I do agree we should see how the season plays out.


But I still don't see how we can get someone better before the 2016 draft, and even then he'll need a year or two to develop.

[Mace]

Orton is no dummy, and the manner in which he leveraged himself out of Dallas and put him into the best position possible should be proof enough of that. If next year is voidable on his say-so, you can bet the farm he will. Give him four more games, than check back on this thread prior to the last month of the season.

- - - Updated - - -



It's 'voidable' so a two year contract that he can opt out of the second year, the way I understand it.

Yup, it's up to Orton. End of the year he can say ok, or bye bye. Ok means he accepts for price (without backdoor negotiation which there certainly would be), or say "Nah."

Player option, up to the player.

It's a good thing here, either we're both all in or not.

[Mace]

btw I do agree we should see how the season plays out.


But I still don't see how we can get someone better before the 2016 draft, and even then he'll need a year or two to develop.

I don't see it either, it's either going to be pass or fail this year, which is probably real significant.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

<thead>
Year
Base
Signing Bonus
Roster Bonus
Option Bonus
Workout Bonus
Restruc. Bonus
Incentive
Cap Hit
Dead

</thead><tbody>
2014
2,500,000
1,500,000
-
-
-
-
-
4,000,000
3,000,000


2015
5,400,000
1,500,000
-
-
100,000
-
-
7,000,000
1,500,000

</tbody>

I don't know how the player option works because the team can always cut a player. I assume in Orton's case, if he elects to opt out 2015, he has to pay back the 1.5 million pro-rated signing bonus.

[Meathead]

hes currently playing way above his career norm statistically. if he could keep that up he would be a legit franchise caliber qb, but i doubt that he can. now would not be the right time to extend regardless, but especially since we cant really have much of an idea what kind of reliable long term production he would give them it makes even less sense

if he has success here over the rest of the season that puts the bills in a great position. he doesnt seem like the sort that would just say well thanks for diving my price up now im gonna go find who will pay me the absolute top dollar. he would likely want to stay here and settle in for a multi-year run, so the bills might not have to shell out ridiculous guaranteed money to keep him

really super nice that it appears the bills finally fell into something with the qb position. that really helps take the immediate urgency out of the equation so they dont have to get into that mistake-prone fire drill to try to find somebody who doesnt suck to play for you (cough jets cough). he should be able to give them at least a couple years to good production, so the bills can be patient about developing the guys behind him

[SpikedLemonade]

<tbody>
Year
Base
Signing Bonus
Roster Bonus
Option Bonus
Workout Bonus
Restruc. Bonus
Incentive
Cap Hit
Dead


2014
2,500,000
1,500,000
-
-
-
-
-
4,000,000
3,000,000


2015
5,400,000
1,500,000
-
-
100,000
-
-
7,000,000
1,500,000

</tbody>

I don't know how the player option works because the team can always cut a player. I assume in Orton's case, if he elects to opt out 2015, he has to pay back the 1.5 million pro-rated signing bonus.

No.

That contract had a $3M Signing Bonus which is his regardless if he goes.

That was the price just to get him here.

We paid him $5.5 to come here.

If he was to opt out, he would be walking away from the Base and Roster Bonus total of another $5.5M.

I gather we gave him the opt out so if he did not start here this year, he could opt out to try to start elsewhere next year.

I would make no evaluation on Orton until after the season is over.

If he is going to be our starter next year, then we will need to pay him starters money which is much more than $5.5M.

[jamze132]

Orton has a good thing going with the Bills. If he stays, he's all but guaranteed to be the starter next season. Enough with the "EJ is the future" nonsense. He couldn't figure it out in college, he's not figuring it out in the NFL.

Right now, I'd take Orton next season over any FA QB who may come available.

[gebobs]

Four games boys and they haven't been all that pretty even though we love the result. Orton could easily be 1-3 rather than 3-1. Here's hoping he strings it out. Odds are he won't.

The Bills 95% confidence interval (back of the envelope calculation) for wins is now 7-10. Upside, they might sneak into the playoffs. That's all I am hoping for. I can't stand another year watching from the sidelines.

[better days]

Anyone can if Orton exercises his option. It's a player option, means he can choose another year or bye bye.

My mistake, I thought it was the Bills option.

All the more reason for the Bills to resign him after this season if he continues to play well.

[DesertFox24]

Orton is 31 and could conceivably start for 3 to 5 years easily.

That being said I think we have some talent on the OL they just are very young and need to get better as the season goes on

[BillsOverDolphins]

Whatever keeps EJ on the bench shouldn't have a price tag

[starrymessenger]

hes currently playing way above his career norm statistically. if he could keep that up he would be a legit franchise caliber qb, but i doubt that he can. now would not be the right time to extend regardless, but especially since we cant really have much of an idea what kind of reliable long term production he would give them it makes even less sense

if he has success here over the rest of the season that puts the bills in a great position. he doesnt seem like the sort that would just say well thanks for diving my price up now im gonna go find who will pay me the absolute top dollar. he would likely want to stay here and settle in for a multi-year run, so the bills might not have to shell out ridiculous guaranteed money to keep him

really super nice that it appears the bills finally fell into something with the qb position. that really helps take the immediate urgency out of the equation so they dont have to get into that mistake-prone fire drill to try to find somebody who doesnt suck to play for you (cough jets cough). he should be able to give them at least a couple years to good production, so the bills can be patient about developing the guys behind him

Agree.
The problem I have (nice problem), is that I really don't think that with these young players on O and the O-line such as it is, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady would have played any better than Orton has. Maybe worse.
That suggests to me that he's on a hot streak, meaning that before making a decision to offer him a better/longer contract we should wait till we have a better idea of just what his right cruising altitude actually is.
Of course it's not impossible either that he's a late bloomer and that he's suddenly in the top half of starting QBs in this league. Not impossible, but probably unlikely. It should be fun to see going forward.
In the meantime I've certainly enjoyed all the big time throws.

[Forward_Lateral]

Agree.
The problem I have (nice problem), is that I really don't think that with these young players on O and the O-line such as it is, Peyton Manning or Tom Brady would have played any better than Orton has. Maybe worse.


I think Kyle has done a great job, and want to see him as the Bills QB. I think he's just what they need. That being said, the bolded part of your post is ridiculous to even think.

[Historian]

Orton is 31 and could conceivably start for 3 to 5 years easily.



Which is a perfect time frame with which to groom a successor, IMO.

[trapezeus]

i'd like to think that orton would give the bills a break and sign with us if money and terms are even. i would hope that he realized our coaches saw his potential quickly, switched to him, let him be a starter and want him as a starter (if that's how the season plays out).

i'm not asking orton to take a buffalo discount, i'm just hoping he doesn't want bigger city life if he gets an equal offer for another team.

but like i've said, i think it's worth it for both parties to simply say they like what's happening so far, and talk at the end of the season. i think i heard orton's option is to be exercised the week before the SB. gives us a few weeks to be proactive about giving him a contract to think about before the option.

[GreedoII]

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-discussion/2014/10/29/7091313/kyle-orton-ryan-fitzpatrick-contracts-buffalo-bills

Apparently he has a player option and some fans want him extended before he might leave in free agency.

Personally, I would extend him if a) he takes us to the playoffs and b) we are convinced he will do it again after this year. Anything else seems like perpetuating mediocrity to me and I'd rather keep looking for the true answer.

He is the best option to win now. I think I've seen enough to believe that. Marrone deserves credit for making the right call here.

However, he does not seem to me to be a future. Can he win now? Sure. Can he win enough for the playoffs? Maybe. But before we go down the road of claiming we don't need a playoff caliber QB let's simply set that argument aside and address whether Orton can do two things... 1) win a game or two when it's all on him to do so and 2) not lose us games where he is a major reason that we lost.

If Orton is nothing more than a stopgap we are unfortunately stuck QB searching again. I want contingency plans. If we want to extend him based on confidence in his abilities based on the aforementioned questions, I immediately want the search for the future to begin anew.

Can EJ still be the answer? It's possible. But I want competition for the QB-of-the-future position with a legit prospect to begin as soon as possible.

In the end, I'm fine with a veteran QB sized contract if we are convinced Orton is the short term answer. But, I'm also fine with seeing where he can take us this year and letting him leave.

What say you?



Don't do it now like they did with Dickless Jauron at 5-1 in 2008 and Fitz at 5-2 in 2011. Wait until the season is over and see were this goes....

[starrymessenger]

I think Kyle has done a great job, and want to see him as the Bills QB. I think he's just what they need. That being said, the bolded part of your post is ridiculous to even think.

Well we can agree to disagree.
i didn't say or intend that Orton was in the same class as those guys. I'm not crazy.
Only that over the last four games I doubt that with this O, this OC calling plays and behind this line either of those guys would have played any better or made more big time throws.
The point was that he may be playing now at a higher level than he is capable of sustaining.
If he can continue at this pace he will be legit as a NFL starter and perhaps in the top half.
His career suggests that's not where he belongs but maybe with the changes in the game favoring the pass and protecting the QB, the greater emphasis on QB smarts and preparation (Orton's long suit) etc...he can outperform his career averages, possibly by a lot.
And maybe he's a late bloomer like Gannon, Morten, Trent Green etc capable of his best play in his mid 30s.
weve got eight more games to try and figure that out.

[The Doc]

This thread is sooo Billsish...

We've got a QB playing really well and people want to get rid of him because he's not a hall of famer... We did this with Flutie, Bledsoe, and apparently some still haven't learned...

This baffles me. Some people were willing to give EJ years and all Ortons done is win and people want him replaced. We can get 5 good years out of Orton so let's lock him up and during this tenure a good QB will slide to us in the draft, take him and develop him, but Orton needs to stay.

[starrymessenger]

This thread is sooo Billsish...

We've got a QB playing really well and people want to get rid of him because he's not a hall of famer... We did this with Flutie, Bledsoe, and apparently some still haven't learned...

This baffles me. Some people were willing to give EJ years and all Ortons done is win and people want him replaced. We can get 5 good years out of Orton so let's lock him up and during this tenure a good QB will slide to us in the draft, take him and develop him, but Orton needs to stay.

Agree.
Unless he craps out (which I don't expect) come year end he'll pretty much be in the drivers seat.
And he looks to be a great guy to help groom the next man up.

[The Doc]

Agree.
Unless he craps out (which I don't expect) come year end he'll pretty much be in the drivers seat.
And he looks to be a great guy to help groom the next man up.

Do you go by the same name on the BBMB?

[better days]

This thread is sooo Billsish...

We've got a QB playing really well and people want to get rid of him because he's not a hall of famer... We did this with Flutie, Bledsoe, and apparently some still haven't learned...

This baffles me. Some people were willing to give EJ years and all Ortons done is win and people want him replaced. We can get 5 good years out of Orton so let's lock him up and during this tenure a good QB will slide to us in the draft, take him and develop him, but Orton needs to stay.

I must have missed those posts.

WHO wants Orton replaced?

The only discussion I have seen in this thread is if/when Orton should be offered a longer contract.

I think everyone wants him on the team next year.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

This thread is sooo Billsish...

We've got a QB playing really well and people want to get rid of him because he's not a hall of famer... We did this with Flutie, Bledsoe, and apparently some still haven't learned...

This baffles me. Some people were willing to give EJ years and all Ortons done is win and people want him replaced. We can get 5 good years out of Orton so let's lock him up and during this tenure a good QB will slide to us in the draft, take him and develop him, but Orton needs to stay.

I don't want to boot him, but I also don't want to throw a massive contract at a good month of play. We're still paying off the last time we did that.

[WagonCircler]

This thread is sooo Billsish...

We've got a QB playing really well and people want to get rid of him because he's not a hall of famer... We did this with Flutie, Bledsoe, and apparently some still haven't learned...

This baffles me. Some people were willing to give EJ years and all Ortons done is win and people want him replaced. We can get 5 good years out of Orton so let's lock him up and during this tenure a good QB will slide to us in the draft, take him and develop him, but Orton needs to stay.

The funniest thing about reading this thread is that everyone seems to have forgotten the single biggest factor in the equation.

Everyone's still thinking like Bills fans, circa 1960-2013.

We will extend Orton because...

Terry Pegula.

Plenty of cap space.

Cash to cap is an obsolete term here now.

Take a deep breath. Exhale. Enjoy it.

There's a new paradigm, errr Sheriff, in town.

[starrymessenger]

Do you go by the same name on the BBMB?

I do, and on the other one too.
I like all the boards, partly because they are all so different.
i do have a bit of a problem with the overly politically correct atmosphere of the BBMB admin.
However lots of good posters to learn from all around on all the boards.

[bdutton]

If he plays like he has for the remainder of the year, I think we have no choice unless we want to invest in another journeyman QB.

[better days]

I don't want to boot him, but I also don't want to throw a massive contract at a good month of play. We're still paying off the last time we did that.

I don't think anyone is saying the Bills should give Orton a new contract before the end of the season either.

But if the Bills make the playoffs this year with Orton at QB, I think we will have seen enough that we want him resigned.

[The Doc]

I do, and on the other one too.
I like all the boards, partly because they are all so different.
i do have a bit of a problem with the overly politically correct atmosphere of the BBMB admin.
However lots of good posters to learn from all around on all the boards.

Yeah..yeah...I got the permanent ban there. Of course there I was The_Dude.

[better days]

Yeah..yeah...I got the permanent ban there. Of course there I was The_Dude.

Well, welcome to the Zone.

The board of the misfit toys.

A place where you don't have to worry about being banned because those in charge don't agree with you.

I was banned from twobillsdrive myself because I said Trent Edwards sucked.

[The Doc]

Well, welcome to the Zone.

The board of the misfit toys.

A place where you don't have to worry about being banned because those in charge don't agree with you.

I was banned from twobillsdrive myself because I said Trent Edwards sucked.

I got the ban from BBMB for saying EJ sucked.

[imbondz]

I don't think anyone is saying the Bills should give Orton a new contract before the end of the season either.

But if the Bills make the playoffs this year with Orton at QB, I think we will have seen enough that we want him resigned.

you think you will have seen enough if Orton makes the playoffs? lol.

[better days]

you think you will have seen enough if Orton makes the playoffs? lol.

You don't think 12 regular season games, making the playoffs is enough to know if Orton should be resigned or not?

I think it will take 10 wins to make the playoffs which means Orton will have to produce 5 more wins for the Bills minimum.

IMO, yeah that would be enough.

[Bill Cody]

After the Cowboys let Orton go I think he was getting himself used to the idea that he was done in the league. Seriously if we don't sign him when we did at the end of camp does he play in the league this year? Doubtful he would have been willing to sign for normal backup money. So let's calm down here. He's been solid not spectacular for 4 games. Orton's happy to be here and we're happy to have him. The checkbook can stay locked in the drawer until the offseason.

[better days]

After the Cowboys let Orton go I think he was getting himself used to the idea that he was done in the league. Seriously if we don't sign him when we did at the end of camp does he play in the league this year? Doubtful he would have been willing to sign for normal backup money. So let's calm down here. He's been solid not spectacular for 4 games. Orton's happy to be here and we're happy to have him. The checkbook can stay locked in the drawer until the offseason.

The Cowboys did not want to cut Orton, he forced their hand by refusing to report, saying he was thinking of retiring.

I think his plan all along was to get away from the Cowboys & sign with a team like the Bills.

[feldspar]

After the Cowboys let Orton go I think he was getting himself used to the idea that he was done in the league. Seriously if we don't sign him when we did at the end of camp does he play in the league this year? Doubtful he would have been willing to sign for normal backup money. So let's calm down here. He's been solid not spectacular for 4 games. Orton's happy to be here and we're happy to have him. The checkbook can stay locked in the drawer until the offseason.

Orton basically tried to force himself out of Dallas IMO, from what I've read. He succeeded in that, if that's the case.

I don't think that he thought he was "done in this league," unless it was by his own hand. I think he wanted to go to a place where he had a chance to start, and behold what happened. The Bills were pursuing him even when he was signed with Dallas a while back, and there is a good chance that he knew that. It took us a while to be able to get him while everything played out. He put himself in a pretty good spot, ask me. His business tactics are looking pretty smart right now. We'll see what happens.

[Bill Cody]

Orton basically tried to force himself out of Dallas IMO, from what I've read. He succeeded in that, if that's the case.

I don't think that he thought he was "done in this league," unless it was by his own hand. I think he wanted to go to a place where he had a chance to start, and behold what happened. The Bills were pursuing him even when he was signed with Dallas a while back, and there is a good chance that he knew that. It took us a while to be able to get him while everything played out. He put himself in a pretty good spot, ask me. His business tactics are looking pretty smart right now. We'll see what happens.

It worked out for him. But let's be honest, our situation was worse than most teams and his market may have been just us and wouldn't have even been that if EJ played a little better.

[better days]

Orton basically tried to force himself out of Dallas IMO, from what I've read. He succeeded in that, if that's the case.

I don't think that he thought he was "done in this league," unless it was by his own hand. I think he wanted to go to a place where he had a chance to start, and behold what happened. The Bills were pursuing him even when he was signed with Dallas a while back, and there is a good chance that he knew that. It took us a while to be able to get him while everything played out. He put himself in a pretty good spot, ask me. His business tactics are looking pretty smart right now. We'll see what happens.

I heard Eric Wood say he is not only neighbors with Orton but the two of them are good friends, go golfing & hunting together.

I think that played a large role in Orton signing with the Bills.

[stuckincincy]

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/buffalo-bills-discussion/2014/10/29/7091313/kyle-orton-ryan-fitzpatrick-contracts-buffalo-bills

Apparently he has a player option and some fans want him extended before he might leave in free agency.

Personally, I would extend him if a) he takes us to the playoffs and b) we are convinced he will do it again after this year. Anything else seems like perpetuating mediocrity to me and I'd rather keep looking for the true answer.

He is the best option to win now. I think I've seen enough to believe that. Marrone deserves credit for making the right call here.

However, he does not seem to me to be a future. Can he win now? Sure. Can he win enough for the playoffs? Maybe. But before we go down the road of claiming we don't need a playoff caliber QB let's simply set that argument aside and address whether Orton can do two things... 1) win a game or two when it's all on him to do so and 2) not lose us games where he is a major reason that we lost.

If Orton is nothing more than a stopgap we are unfortunately stuck QB searching again. I want contingency plans. If we want to extend him based on confidence in his abilities based on the aforementioned questions, I immediately want the search for the future to begin anew.

Can EJ still be the answer? It's possible. But I want competition for the QB-of-the-future position with a legit prospect to begin as soon as possible.

In the end, I'm fine with a veteran QB sized contract if we are convinced Orton is the short term answer. But, I'm also fine with seeing where he can take us this year and letting him leave.

What say you?

Good post. We have to wait for any anointing, to see if his success in beating 2 stiffs and one semi-stiff missing their top WR and starting QB. He's suffered 17 sacks in 4 starts - we can debate if it's him or the line. We have to wait and see if the 9 td/3 int ratio changes up or down. 2 fumbles - not concerned about that.

[feldspar]

I heard Eric Wood say he is not only neighbors with Orton but the two of them are good friends, go golfing & hunting together.

I think that played a large role in Orton signing with the Bills.

I heard that too, but I don't think that played a large role.

It's nice and good to hear, but I don't think that played a large role. I'm pretty sure Orton has friends wherever he went. He's a family man. If he likes Wood (no pun intended), all the more better...but that would be dumb of Orton for that to play a "large role" in his decision to come to Buffalo. Just icing on the cake at best, or so is my projection.

[Bill Cody]

I heard that too, but I don't think that played a large role.



Know what had a large role? 5 large

[X-Era]

Good post. We have to wait for any anointing, to see if his success in beating 2 stiffs and one semi-stiff missing their top WR and starting QB. He's suffered 17 sacks in 4 starts - we can debate if it's him or the line. We have to wait and see if the 9 td/3 int ratio changes up or down. 2 fumbles - not concerned about that.The turnovers were a big concerns for me. Im glad he didn't have any against the Jests. But if we had lost both games with him having two turnovers many might feel very differently about him.

[Figster]

If Orton keeps playing as well as he has been for the rest of the season I say yes,

by all means, re-sign Kyle Orton :2cents::2cents:


:monkeyp:Shady Brady

[better days]

I heard that too, but I don't think that played a large role.

It's nice and good to hear, but I don't think that played a large role. I'm pretty sure Orton has friends wherever he went. He's a family man. If he likes Wood (no pun intended), all the more better...but that would be dumb of Orton for that to play a "large role" in his decision to come to Buffalo. Just icing on the cake at best, or so is my projection.


My thinking is Wood acted like a middle man.

Let the Bills know what Orton was thinking & let Orton know about the Bills team.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I heard Eric Wood say he is not only neighbors with Orton but the two of them are good friends, go golfing & hunting together.

I think that played a large role in Orton signing with the Bills.

At least he's not crazy enough to go hunting with EJ. If he aims at a whitetail you've got no idea where those shots are going to end up.

[mightysimi]

If he finishes the season playing as well as he is right now, playoffs or not, I think he declines the option but re-signs at a higher price. There aren't too many places in the league where he might get a shot at starting other than Buf. Maybe NYJ but they are a mess. Where else could he go?

[The Doc]

I want to resign Orton but I think Ortons camp would hold out till the end of the season while he increases his value.

[better days]

I want to resign Orton but I think Ortons camp would hold out till the end of the season while he increases his value.

I think it would be prudent to wait until the end of the season anyway to resign Orton.

[The Doc]

I think it would be prudent to wait until the end of the season anyway to resign Orton.

I don't. Let's let it play out and get a long term deal done with then. I believe in Orton. I'm a huge fan. I believe a long term deal will get done. But remember that long term deal we signed with Fitz because we didn't want to be prudent?

[starrymessenger]

I got the ban from BBMB for saying EJ sucked.

I do remember.
I couldn't figure out where you got the energy to repeat the obvious to some of those folks after you became a lightning rod for attack by the fanboys (who have since been quelled).
BTW your boy Bortles looks pretty good to me.

[User Manuel]

Unlike what we did with Fitz we should keep the guy who gives us a chance to win now until something better comes along. If Manuel had legitimatly beat him out, so be it, but we wee in such a rush to anoint EJ w killed ourslf I the process. Worst case scenario is he gets beat out. I'd rather have 2 good QBs then none.

Orton has done nothing for me to believe he should be replaced and he has a chemistry and relationship and gets the Ball to Watkins

[YardRat]

The funniest thing about reading this thread is that everyone seems to have forgotten the single biggest factor in the equation.

Everyone's still thinking like Bills fans, circa 1960-2013.

We will extend Orton because...

Terry Pegula.

Plenty of cap space.

Cash to cap is an obsolete term here now.

Take a deep breath. Exhale. Enjoy it.

There's a new paradigm, errr Sheriff, in town.

I wouldn't bet real money on that if I were you.

[YardRat]

Unlike what we did with Fitz we should keep the guy who gives us a chance to win now until something better comes along. If Manuel had legitimatly beat him out, so be it, but we wee in such a rush to anoint EJ w killed ourslf I the process. Worst case scenario is he gets beat out. I'd rather have 2 good QBs then none.

Orton has done nothing for me to believe he should be replaced and he has a chemistry and relationship and gets the Ball to Watkins

I don't think anybody was in 'a rush' to anoint EJ, but unfortunate circumstances (at the time) dictated it.

[swiper]

Extend him. Manuel is not the answer.

Orton = better than you all thought.

Manuel = worse than you all thought.

[Bill Cody]

Extend him. Manuel is not the answer.

Orton = better than you all thought.

Manuel = worse than you all thought.

Orton = pretty much what I thought, a journeyman
Manuel = pretty much what I thought, green and not very accurate

[sukie]

Unlike what we did with Fitz we should keep the guy who gives us a chance to win now until something better comes along. If Manuel had legitimatly beat him out, so be it, but we wee in such a rush to anoint EJ w killed ourslf I the process. Worst case scenario is he gets beat out. I'd rather have 2 good QBs then none.

Orton has done nothing for me to believe he should be replaced and he has a chemistry and relationship and gets the Ball to Watkins
EJ wasn't anointed to anything. He wasn't supposed to be the starter year one... became that player due to injury and had the offseason starter role going into camp. Orton wasn't on the roster

[djjimkelly]

EJ wasn't anointed to anything. He wasn't supposed to be the starter year one... became that player due to injury and had the offseason starter role going into camp. Orton wasn't on the roster


original plan was kolb i actually think that plan with EJ grooming would have worked well enough

[bdutton]

Here is a list of free agent QB's for 2015.

I'm not really impressed with the choices.


<colgroup><col><col><col><col></colgroup><tbody>
Matt Moore
QB
UFA
MIA


Mark Sanchez
QB
UFA
PHI


Jake Locker
QB
UFA
TEN


Michael Vick
QB
UFA
NYJ


Matt Hasselbeck
QB
UFA
IND


Christian Ponder
QB
UFA
MIN


Matt Flynn
QB
UFA
GB


Blaine Gabbert
QB
UFA
SF


Shaun Hill
QB
UFA
STL


Jason Campbell
QB
UFA
CIN


Tarvaris Jackson
QB
UFA
SEA


Brian Hoyer
QB
UFA
CLE


Ryan Mallett
QB
UFA
HOU


Tyrod Taylor
QB
UFA
BAL


Scott Tolzien
QB
UFA
GB


T.J. Yates
QB
UFA
ATL


Jimmy Clausen
QB
UFA
CHI


Joe Webb
QB
UFA
CAR


Dan Orlovsky
QB
UFA
DET


Colt McCoy
QB
UFA
WAS


Luke McCown
QB
UFA
NO


Kellen Moore
QB
RFA
DET


Austin Davis
QB
RFA
STL


Josh Johnson
QB
UFA
SF


Matt Blanchard
QB
ERFA
CAR


Matt Simms
QB
RFA
NYJ


Chester Stewart
QB
RFA
BAL


Kyle Newhall-Caballero
QB
RFA
OAK


G.J. Kinnie
QB
RFA
NYJ


Tyler Hansen
QB
RFA
CIN

</tbody>

[swiper]

The question should be:

Does Orton still want to play under Doug Marrone? You know Saint Doug.

Maybe he'll stay if management promises to replace the ****ty coaches (sans Jim Schwartz, of course).

You pay Dareus. You pay Orton.

[EDS]

Orton got himself a nice deal from the Bills. He plays well he can parlay that into a big contract from the Bills or someone else. If he plays like last night he just plays out his existing deal setting aside cash for an early retirement. $5m goes a long way in western New York.