QB switch next year?

[Dying_-2-_Live]

Realistically, If the FO remains intake, do you guys see them sticking with Orton? do you draft a guy in the 2nd and try to groom him under Orton? I have to think they may have cold feet about that after the Kolb, EJ failure. Or is it possible we pick up and guy like RGIII and cross our fingers?

[BillsImpossible]

Depends upon how good or bad Orton performs in the next 6 weeks.

RG3? Step off the ledge bro!

[Fletch]

I think that at this point we're screwed, especially if they leave the FO intact. Besides, Orton may be finished in Buffalo. I mean how can they leave a QB in there that can't get the ball across the goal line?

Sounds like after that Watkins trade we just bide our time hoping for a good QB candidate in round 1 of the 2016 Draft.

Nothing available in free agency.

Gotta love that Watkins trade. Not that Mariota would have been available with our 1st, but a trade up to get him may have been worth it. I'm not sure about Jameis, he sounds like a great candidate to ruin his pro career by off-field stupidity.

- - - Updated - - -


RG3? Step off the ledge bro!

The whole read-option thing ran its course in the NFL already.

[BillsImpossible]

Gotta love that Watkins trade. Not that Mariota would have been available with our 1st, but a trade up to get him may have been worth it.

The Browns are going to get the 16th pick at best.

Pickle in the middle. At 8-8, the Bills would be drafting in the middle of the first round if they didn't trade away their first round draft pick for Sammy Watkins.

That's why the trade makes sense to me. I'd rather have Sammy Watkins now over a middle of the 2015 first round draft pick.

[Albany,n.y.]

Realistically, If the FO remains intake, do you guys see them sticking with Orton? do you draft a guy in the 2nd and try to groom him under Orton? I have to think they may have cold feet about that after the Kolb, EJ failure. Or is it possible we pick up and guy like RGIII and cross our fingers?

It would depend on who would be available when the Bills pick in the 2nd round. One of the main reasons this team has been bad for so long is an extremely short sighted draft philosophy. They've created holes & then filled them in drafts where they're always a year too early or a year too late in drafting for that need. It's happened over & over again, like when they had to draft a QB & after failing to trade up for Roethlisberger they traded up for Losman, while if they just had waited another year (especially since there was no dire need to find a replacement for Bledsoe after 3 QBs had already come off the board) Aaron Rodgers would have fallen into their laps. Other gems: create a hole at RB by trading McGahee, then pass on Revis to draft Lynch, and the next year draft Leodis to fill that year's CB need, while they could have drafted Chris Johnson the following year instead of McKelvin if they had drafted Revis. Then they decide to replace Lynch with Spiller well into Lynch's prime & waste another 1st rounder while totally devaluing Lynch's trade value. Just think if they had just kept Fitzpatrick one more year & instead of acting like a 3 year old who had to have a 1st round QB in the worst QB draft in 6 years, they had waited until this year & could have had their pick between Bridgewater & Carr. Oh, and trading 2 1sts for Watkins & leaving themselves with no 1st rounder this year really was different than past never look beyond the current season drafts-by a guy who was more concerned about his job than any long term ramifications.

This is why I want an entire housecleaning at One Bills Drive-get someone in who can think beyond 1 season & we might actually become a contender. Anyone, no matter what business they're in is going to fail if they don't look beyond one year. The Bills consistent plans are like making a 1 year discounted cash flow analysis.

[stuckincincy]

Realistically, If the FO remains intake, do you guys see them sticking with Orton? do you draft a guy in the 2nd and try to groom him under Orton? I have to think they may have cold feet about that after the Kolb, EJ failure. Or is it possible we pick up and guy like RGIII and cross our fingers?

Why not? Coaches, QBs, change like the weather for BUF. :;:

[Albany,n.y.]

I think that at this point we're screwed, especially if they leave the FO intact. Besides, Orton may be finished in Buffalo. I mean how can they leave a QB in there that can't get the ball across the goal line?

Sounds like after that Watkins trade we just bide our time hoping for a good QB candidate in round 1 of the 2016 Draft.

Nothing available in free agency.

Gotta love that Watkins trade. Not that Mariota would have been available with our 1st, but a trade up to get him may have been worth it. I'm not sure about Jameis, he sounds like a great candidate to ruin his pro career by off-field stupidity.

- - - Updated - - -



The whole read-option thing ran its course in the NFL already.

If the Bills think Mariota is a sure thing franchise QB like Luck was coming into the NFL, I say if Oakland or Jacksonville has the top pick throw the kitchen sink at them & make a deal, because a franchise QB is good for 10 or more years of contention. I'd let them have their pick of Darius or Mario Williams, our 2nd rounder & the next 2 year 1st rounders. That's how much I'd be willing to spend because you can fill just about every position except (franchise) QB in free agency if you don't have 1st rounders for a few years.

[Fletch]

The Browns are going to get the 16th pick at best.

Well, we're just going to have to differ on that trade. I'd have taken Benjamin or Beckum and kept our picks in a heartbeat.

Right now however it's a 14th pick and given our schedule I have no idea how you can even say that. I think that the odds of it being a 16th or worse are remote. I'd guess that we're 7-9 this year, and if that's the case, we're looking at 12th or 13th.

Either way, it's water under the dam. No sense in complaining now unless they don't get rid of the people that made that trade.

[Fletch]

If the Bills think Mariota is a sure thing franchise QB like Luck was coming into the NFL, I say if Oakland or Jacksonville has the top pick throw the kitchen sink at them & make a deal, because a franchise QB is good for 10 or more years of contention. I'd let them have their pick of Darius or Mario Williams, our 2nd rounder & the next 2 year 1st rounders. That's how much I'd be willing to spend because you can fill just about every position except (franchise) QB in free agency if you don't have 1st rounders for a few years.

Mariota may be the very first player off the boards. Do you realize what we'd have to trade to get that pick, essentially 1, maybe 2, overall?

You're looking at our '16 & '17 1st's, then probably our 2nd this season too and another pick or two in there. That'd be nuts.

Like you just said, we're up a creek without a paddle this year, but let's not make it being out in the middle of the Pacific without a boat.

Fire Whaley, Marrone, and the personnel staff. Put some people in that know what they're doing, get what we can from Orton, and let's start rebuilding next year with what we have and reevaluate.

To me the big thing is whether or not Pegula is going to clean house as he should. Rumors and speculation run both ways. If he doesn't, on top of having squandered an outstanding opportunity to do so, it could very well mean 20 more years of this same ****.

[Mr. Pink]

Brett Hundley would be intriguing if he lasts til round 2.

[The Jokeman]

Brett Hundley would be intriguing if he lasts til round 2.

I get why so many people get enamored with running QBs but the truth is the NFL remains a passing league first and foremost. Sure runners like Randall Cunningham, Mike Vick have made waves but at the end of the day a half way decent passing QB can take you further. If the Bills do look at QB in the draft a guy Garrett Grayson is a guy to look at.

[Mace]

If the Bills think Mariota is a sure thing franchise QB like Luck was coming into the NFL, I say if Oakland or Jacksonville has the top pick throw the kitchen sink at them & make a deal, because a franchise QB is good for 10 or more years of contention.

He is with a team around him. We don't have a kitchen sink to throw unless we trash more years of drafts and cripple potential future coaching staffs, or trade Alonso, Watkins or Dareus. I'd emphatically say "NO" because again, you are crippling your potential future organization on one maybe, and RG3 is a really good example of how a sure thing can quickly become a maybe, and Julio Jones is a good example of how you don't frost a cake that isn't baked yet, or, as Wagoncircler might say "putting custom rims on a jalopy".

Orton is "only" 31, that's a good bridge QB age......IF he turns it on last 6 games and wants to stay. No clue either how they think Manuel is doing on the pines.

If they ride the bus, no telling the FO will even stay the same. Need a few more games for a clearer picture methinks.

[Fletch]

I get why so many people get enamored with running QBs but the truth is the NFL remains a passing league first and foremost. Sure runners like Randall Cunningham, Mike Vick have made waves but at the end of the day a half way decent passing QB can take you further. If the Bills do look at QB in the draft a guy Garrett Grayson is a guy to look at.

Agree on the running QBs. Not sure about Grayson though. Look at his gamelogs. His biggest games are against **** teams, and not that he plays in a tough conference to begin with. He's the kind of player that we would draft and I'd be all over and everyone would argue with me.

Maybe in round 3 or 4 if he's there.

[Fletch]

He is with a team around him. We don't have a kitchen sink to throw unless we trash more years of drafts and cripple potential future coaching staffs, or trade Alonso, Watkins or Dareus. I'd emphatically say "NO" because again, you are crippling your potential future organization on one maybe, and RG3 is a really good example of how a sure thing can quickly become a maybe, and Julio Jones is a good example of how you don't frost a cake that isn't baked yet, or, as Wagoncircler might say "putting custom rims on a jalopy".

Orton is "only" 31, that's a good bridge QB age......IF he turns it on last 6 games and wants to stay. No clue either how they think Manuel is doing on the pines.

If they ride the bus, no telling the FO will even stay the same. Need a few more games for a clearer picture methinks.

Agree

Hopefully we'll have a whole new FO though.

If I were in charge I'd look at the draft and continue to try to improve our D with some LBs or secondary.

Watkins will be 2nd year next year, Woods 3rd, Hogan will have developed into something, and hopefully we'd be fine with Orton for a year. The problem is at RB, maybe a good 3-down RB in the 2nd.

[Mr. Pink]

I get why so many people get enamored with running QBs but the truth is the NFL remains a passing league first and foremost. Sure runners like Randall Cunningham, Mike Vick have made waves but at the end of the day a half way decent passing QB can take you further. If the Bills do look at QB in the draft a guy Garrett Grayson is a guy to look at.

Hundley has a strong arm with good accuracy. He lacks a bit in reading the entire field and tends to take off when his first read is covered but that's something that can be taught and learned. I don't care about him running around defenses in college as that never works in the pros where linebackers are just as fast, but him being able to move in the pocket and extend plays is something that can't be discounted.

[Night Train]

With a possible coaching change and full off-season coming, why predict anything right now ?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Mariota may be the very first player off the boards. Do you realize what we'd have to trade to get that pick, essentially 1, maybe 2, overall?

You're looking at our '16 & '17 1st's, then probably our 2nd this season too and another pick or two in there. That'd be nuts.

It would never happen. Moving up from the 40s to #1 or #2 overall would be one of the largest trades in NFL history.

[Mr. Pink]

With a possible coaching change and full off-season coming, why predict anything right now ?

Even with any coaching changes, this team needs a franchise QB if they want to become relevant again.

Year after year this discussion will continue until a franchise QB is found.

[better days]

Why not? Coaches, QBs, change like the weather for BUF. :;:

No point in keeping a MEDIOCRE HC into perpetuity like Cinci has right?

[Mace]

Hundley has a strong arm with good accuracy. He lacks a bit in reading the entire field and tends to take off when his first read is covered but that's something that can be taught and learned. I don't care about him running around defenses in college as that never works in the pros where linebackers are just as fast, but him being able to move in the pocket and extend plays is something that can't be discounted.

Same problem we always have though, who will teach him ?

[BertSquirtgum]

The Bills can trade for rgIII and sam bradford next year. Two injury prone qb's who will never be good again would be a great addition.

[Mace]

The Bills can trade for rgIII and sam bradford next year. Two injury prone qb's who will never be good again would be a great addition.

Well, we collect discards so.....

[Mr. Pink]

Same problem we always have though, who will teach him ?

You have to hope that this guy is adaptable to listening and learning. They brought in Sam Wyche to tutor Losman and we know how that worked out. Some times it's not the teacher, it's the student.

Just because in the past guys were picked and they failed, doesn't mean you just stop trying.

If you, hypothetically, take Hundley in round 2 and he turns out to be a bum, you draft another QB in 2016.

[Mace]

You have to hope that this guy is adaptable to listening and learning. They brought in Sam Wyche to tutor Losman and we know how that worked out. Some times it's not the teacher, it's the student.

Just because in the past guys were picked and they failed, doesn't mean you just stop trying.

If you, hypothetically, take Hundley in round 2 and he turns out to be a bum, you draft another QB in 2016.

Well the thing I have to point out about Wyche, is that he wasn't allowed to be Wyche. I've said this so many times, but will again, Losman was drafted to be mobile and replace the statue Bledsoe, and they immediately set about breaking him of his mobility. I remember the Wyche interviews believe it or not, he was real psyched about Losman who was avid in the classroom. Wyche said Losman made him feel they needed shove the tables aside and play right there. Then it was all about breaking him of his footwork. I think we were all thinking run and gun, and they tried making Losman into the statue he was replacing by being mobile. I don't blame Wyche. He was forced into scheme.

But you either get a guy to develop a QB and empower him, or you don't bother unless you want to keep blowing picks another decade.

[Fletch]

It would never happen. Moving up from the 40s to #1 or #2 overall would be one of the largest trades in NFL history.

I agree

[Mr. Pink]

Well the thing I have to point out about Wyche, is that he wasn't allowed to be Wyche. I've said this so many times, but will again, Losman was drafted to be mobile and replace the statue Bledsoe, and they immediately set about breaking him of his mobility. I remember the Wyche interviews believe it or not, he was real psyched about Losman who was avid in the classroom. Wyche said Losman made him feel they needed shove the tables aside and play right there. Then it was all about breaking him of his footwork. I think we were all thinking run and gun, and they tried making Losman into the statue he was replacing by being mobile. I don't blame Wyche. He was forced into scheme.

But you either get a guy to develop a QB and empower him, or you don't bother unless you want to keep blowing picks another decade.

Not everyone develops. Rob Johnson, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel. I'll give a pass on Losman based on your post. With Manuel the same issues he had at FSU are the ones he has here. At some point you just have to realize that the guy is either uncoachable by choice or because he simply doesn't understand what he should be doing.

All I know is if this team goes into 2015 with Orton and Manuel at the QB spot, you're looking at another season of mediocrity. I'd rather try and completely fail than be mediocre again. If you try, you might end up with a better result. If you don't try, you're spinning your wheels. In the NFL when you spin your wheels, you're going backward.

[stuckincincy]

No point in keeping a MEDIOCRE HC into perpetuity like Cinci has right?

Of course not. Why do you think I refer to Marvin Lewis as Coach-for-Life? I moved here in 1990 and it took but one season to figure out that the B'gal's owner demands loyalty to the family before results. I stupidly bought property in Hamilton County, OH after the stadium vote, but if before, I certainly would have voted no for their free stadium.

I've never spent a penny on them, other than the sales taxation increase extracted. Never went to the stadium, never bought a ticket, never bought a trinket. If folks think BUF has had a rough patch, they should have been here and watched the Bungle's 13 seasons of garbage...a head coach eating his lunch in his car, a 1st round pick buying training camp towels and soap for team mates, and so on.

It's nice to see them win, since I live in the area, same as it's nice for you to see TB win. Got it?

[Albany,n.y.]

It would never happen. Moving up from the 40s to #1 or #2 overall would be one of the largest trades in NFL history.

Look how much Polian gave up for Bennett in 1987-Greg Bell (1984 #1 pick), 1988 #1, 1989 #1 & #2. Polian is hailed as the greatest GM in Bills history, in part because he was willing to pull off a trade like that for a rookie who had never played a down in the NFL at the time of the trade. To get a franchise QB will cost slightly more but think how much you'd be willing to trade for if Indy decided to stick with Manning & trade the Luck pick. If Oakland or Jacksonville have the #1 pick it will be traded to the highest bidder. Now, we're at a disadvantage because we don't have a #1 pick, so we'll have to trade one of our top 4 players and 2 #1s, but without a franchise QB, those top 4 players talents will be wasted anyway.

[stuckincincy]

Look how much Polian gave up for Bennett in 1987-Greg Bell (1984 #1 pick), 1988 #1, 1989 #1 & #2. Polian is hailed as the greatest GM in Bills history, in part because he was willing to pull off a trade like that for a rookie who had never played a down in the NFL at the time of the trade. To get a franchise QB will cost slightly more but think how much you'd be willing to trade for if Indy decided to stick with Manning & trade the Luck pick. If Oakland or Jacksonville have the #1 pick it will be traded to the highest bidder. Now, we're at a disadvantage because we don't have a #1 pick, so we'll have to trade one of our top 4 players and 2 #1s, but without a franchise QB, those top 4 players talents will be wasted anyway.

But that was a different era, before effective, unrestricted player free agency hit in 1992 (IIRC) Not to be confused with today's UFDA status.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1561856-how-free-agency-changed-the-nfl-forever

Also, in 1987, there were 12 rounds to the draft. BUF picked up OT Harold (House) Ballard in the 11th.

[Mace]

Not everyone develops. Rob Johnson, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel. I'll give a pass on Losman based on your post. With Manuel the same issues he had at FSU are the ones he has here. At some point you just have to realize that the guy is either uncoachable by choice or because he simply doesn't understand what he should be doing.

All I know is if this team goes into 2015 with Orton and Manuel at the QB spot, you're looking at another season of mediocrity. I'd rather try and completely fail than be mediocre again. If you try, you might end up with a better result. If you don't try, you're spinning your wheels. In the NFL when you spin your wheels, you're going backward.

I'd agree to some extent. But honestly Manuel was a project QB.

He was a spread offense project QB with a head, arm and legs. We used him without a QB coach in an up tempo west coast fast read/react offense, without a vet mentor. We signed "vet" Thad Lewis, instructed by Downing in Detroit. Lewis went nowhere, so we hired Downing, thought to have made Stafford even regress. Manuel went nowhere. So we hired and used last minute Orton who doesn't really need coaching, probably could teach Downing.

Where do you really blame Manuel for being a project QB, or the people supposed to be developing him into being a completed project ?

I agree with you. We're looking at another season of mediocre. We are spinning our wheels, and if it means we are going backward we are.

But at best, we're going to get another project QB to join our project QB to be inadequately developed projects.

I know as well as you do this isn't going anywhere. It doesn't matter who they draft atm, it won't help anything. So don't just keep drafting them. That's how we got nowhere perpetually.

We aren't going to stop spinning our wheels without a sure thing we can't afford, without being able to be adequate enough with what we have first.

We don't have a staff to nurture anyone, that's the problem imho, not the players. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting diff results.

But we keep doing it. Stop doing it, hire capable people to see what we have. If we don't, start over and I'm fine with it. I don't think we have capable people and it is getting old.

[Fletch]

Not everyone develops. Rob Johnson, Trent Edwards, EJ Manuel. I'll give a pass on Losman based on your post. With Manuel the same issues he had at FSU are the ones he has here. At some point you just have to realize that the guy is either uncoachable by choice or because he simply doesn't understand what he should be doing.

All I know is if this team goes into 2015 with Orton and Manuel at the QB spot, you're looking at another season of mediocrity. I'd rather try and completely fail than be mediocre again. If you try, you might end up with a better result. If you don't try, you're spinning your wheels. In the NFL when you spin your wheels, you're going backward.

Depends on who's running things. If it's the same crew, I agree. If not, then let's use next season to improve where we can and leave a longer-term QB option for the following offseason. In the early-mid 2nd we should easily be able to get an impact player in one of several position rich categories. If we have the same crew, then I'm not sure it really matters one way or another since clearly Pegula will not have recognized, or have been familiar with the issues from simply having been a fan as he claims.

[The Jokeman]

Look how much Polian gave up for Bennett in 1987-Greg Bell (1984 #1 pick), 1988 #1, 1989 #1 & #2. Polian is hailed as the greatest GM in Bills history, in part because he was willing to pull off a trade like that for a rookie who had never played a down in the NFL at the time of the trade. To get a franchise QB will cost slightly more but think how much you'd be willing to trade for if Indy decided to stick with Manning & trade the Luck pick. If Oakland or Jacksonville have the #1 pick it will be traded to the highest bidder. Now, we're at a disadvantage because we don't have a #1 pick, so we'll have to trade one of our top 4 players and 2 #1s, but without a franchise QB, those top 4 players talents will be wasted anyway.

Look at that 1987 draft and that's why Polian was a great GM. That and he was fortunate after trading Bell to come away with Thurman Thomas in 1988 with a 2nd Round pick. Not to mentioning bringing in a non rookie Jim Kelly.

[The Jokeman]

Agree on the running QBs. Not sure about Grayson though. Look at his gamelogs. His biggest games are against **** teams, and not that he plays in a tough conference to begin with. He's the kind of player that we would draft and I'd be all over and everyone would argue with me.

Maybe in round 3 or 4 if he's there.

I'm thinking at the earliest round 3. I think our top pick should be for a G I doubt Cann falls but Josue Matias might. Assuming of course we re-sign Hughes if not than pass rusher/DE is something I'd think about like Hau'oli Kikaha.

[Mr. Pink]

Either way if you're keeping Manuel around to try and develop him, they're gonna need to try and develop his touch, accuracy and footwork in practices not at the expense of W's during the season. So someone needs to be brought in to try and teach him a little plus actually perform on the field to get victories.

This team defensively is good enough to be playoff caliber, it needs someone behind center who can compliment that. Orton, for whatever reason, is good between the 20s and then inside the 20 turns to crap. I don't care how good your defense is, if you can't score some TDs you won't win many games. Even the 2001 Ravens benched their initial starter Tony Banks because he couldn't generate TDs. That Ravens team went something like 5 weeks without an offensive TD.

[Fletch]

I'm thinking at the earliest round 3. I think our top pick should be for a G I doubt Cann falls but Josue Matias might. Assuming of course we re-sign Hughes if not than pass rusher/DE is something I'd think about like Hau'oli Kikaha.

Agree

I'd also be happy with a LB or CB in round 2 though depending upon depth in those positions in the draft. Or a 3-down RB, we might be able to get great value there. Too bad we won't have a shot at Duke Johnson.

[Fletch]

Either way if you're keeping Manuel around to try and develop him, they're gonna need to try and develop his touch, accuracy and footwork in practices not at the expense of W's during the season. So someone needs to be brought in to try and teach him a little plus actually perform on the field to get victories.

This has been tried, two years in the NFL and two years at FSU before the coaching staff gave up. Manuel's not coachable. Whack-a-mole.

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2013/4/25/4264734/nfl-draft-2013-ej-manuel-next-level-florida-state


He has also displayed levels of inconsistency at even the fundamental aspects of quarterback play that raise serious questions about his ultimate ceiling as a QB. The frustrating part of these inconsistencies is that they are so very inconsistent and appear seemingly at random. For a coach trying to address these issues it must feel like a game of whack-a-mole; as soon as you resolve one deficiency, another that you thought you had fixed reappears. This suggests a quarterback who has not sufficiently mastered the fundamental aspects of the position to the point that they happen automatically.

You don't have a chance of succeeding in the NFL if you are incapable of mastering the fundamentals.

[Mr. Pink]

This has been tried, two years in the NFL and two years at FSU before the coaching staff gave up. Manuel's not coachable. Whack-a-mole.

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2013/4/25/4264734/nfl-draft-2013-ej-manuel-next-level-florida-state



You don't have a chance of succeeding in the NFL if you are incapable of mastering the fundamentals.

You don't need to convince me of this. I have no problem with showing both Manuel and Orton the door in the offseason.

Manuel has the same issues he had 4 years ago at FSU and likely the same issues he had back in high school. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's generally a duck. They swung and missed on a QB in probably one of the worst years ever to try and take a QB.

[trapezeus]

Realistically, If the FO remains intake, do you guys see them sticking with Orton? do you draft a guy in the 2nd and try to groom him under Orton? I have to think they may have cold feet about that after the Kolb, EJ failure. Or is it possible we pick up and guy like RGIII and cross our fingers?

hard to believe as they are in their normal crash and burn format. i can't imagine the bills keeping brandon down without a lot of loss of ticket sales.

whoever is the GM next year, needs to take another qb for the coaching staff that's coming in. with cleveland at 7-4 and a potential loss to them, marrone doesn't surive for year 3.

[Fletch]

hard to believe as they are in their normal crash and burn format. i can't imagine the bills keeping brandon down without a lot of loss of ticket sales.

Winning spawns ticket sales. Get a crew in here that knows how to build a team and they'll come. If the last 10 years of ticket sales, with some of the most pathetic decisions ever in the history of the NFL in the way of GMs and HCs, are any indication, a simple change will spawn sellouts until if/when the new regime either proves that it was a good choice or finds itself in the same spot as we're in now. Simple changes, poor ones, have resulted in pretty exceptional attendance given the circumstances to date.



whoever is the GM next year, needs to take another qb for the coaching staff that's coming in. with cleveland at 7-4 and a potential loss to them, marrone doesn't surive for year 3.

You can only choose from what's available, and at a mid-2nd rounder with no free agency prospects beyond what we have here, the pickins are slim. This is a good season to focus on other areas, maybe that 3rd-down RB we need, or a top CB for example, as we bide our time in the wake of Whaley's negligence for a QB in 2016.

[better days]

Well the thing I have to point out about Wyche, is that he wasn't allowed to be Wyche. I've said this so many times, but will again, Losman was drafted to be mobile and replace the statue Bledsoe, and they immediately set about breaking him of his mobility. I remember the Wyche interviews believe it or not, he was real psyched about Losman who was avid in the classroom. Wyche said Losman made him feel they needed shove the tables aside and play right there. Then it was all about breaking him of his footwork. I think we were all thinking run and gun, and they tried making Losman into the statue he was replacing by being mobile. I don't blame Wyche. He was forced into scheme.

But you either get a guy to develop a QB and empower him, or you don't bother unless you want to keep blowing picks another decade.

And this is the same thing the Redskins have done with RGIII & the Bills have done with EJ.

After their injuries, both the Bills & Redskins put clamps on their young mobile QB's.

[Fletch]

And this is the same thing the Redskins have done with RGIII & the Bills have done with EJ.

After their injuries, both the Bills & Redskins put clamps on their young mobile QB's.

RGIII was a read-option QB, but the read-option has already run its course, predictably, in the NFL.

I'm guessing that Manuel was specifically targeted because he was the only remotely comparable read-option QB and the Bills' front office is infamous for copy-catting others instead of coming up with something unique or conventional. They incessantly manage as if they're smarter-by-half. That's why Manuel backfired on them in part.

Manuel had numerous other shortcomings too.

[better days]

RGIII was a read-option QB, but the read-option has already run its course, predictably, in the NFL.

I'm guessing that Manuel was specifically targeted because he was the only remotely comparable read-option QB and the Bills' front office is infamous for copy-catting others instead of coming up with something unique or conventional. They incessantly manage as if they're smarter-by-half. That's why Manuel backfired on them in part.

Manuel had numerous other shortcomings too.

Manuel has MANY good traits.

He has both the tangibles & intangibles you want in a QB.

[trapezeus]

QB wise, i think i'm over the athletic QB. i want the guys who just get up after getting hit. they don't always look like a tank, but they can endure the punishment. that's why i think the oregon QB looks like a dangerous pick. he looks so small comparatively.

I also think the bills qb search is dependent on who the coach is. if marrone somehow survives this, they need a qb earlier. put more pressure on manuel. if it's a new guy, i think they'll have time to construct a team and maybe lose a season to have a chance at a top notch qb the next year.

[Fletch]

QB wise, i think i'm over the athletic QB. i want the guys who just get up after getting hit. they don't always look like a tank, but they can endure the punishment. that's why i think the oregon QB looks like a dangerous pick. he looks so small comparatively.

Did you look at Mariota's size before posting this?

He's 6'4"/220 you do realize, right?

I'm not big on PAC-10 QBs in general because the defensive competition is lighter than the other major conferences. Having said that, I'd gladly trade Watkins and this year's 1st and either this year's 2nd or next year's (2016's) 1st for Mariota and either Benjamin or Beckum, which we probably could have had.

Going for a QB in the 2nd doesn't make sense for this team. It'll likely not be the answer and force us to play that candidate next season, or otherwise waste the only decent pick we have this year on a QB for one season, a rookie one at that.

What intrigues me about Mariota in particular is that he's only thrown 2 INTs in 277 attempts and 1 TD for fewer than every 10 attempts.

He's also been sacked 25 times and seems to have gotten up just fine.

[djjimkelly]

people are gonna hate this post but yes we will have a new starting qb..................


EJ

go back and read what whaley said about him 2015 will be the year of EJ then the change is coming

dont hate me im just the messenger

[OpIv37]

Without reading through this whole thread:

Orton was never meant to be a starter. He was brought here as a back-up and has shown why he isn't starter material.

That being said, who are we going to get that's better? Starting QB's rarely if ever hit the FA market. We have no first round pick to draft one. Occasionally, starters go on the trading block but they are usually head cases or guys whose current team lacks confidence in them. Plus, we can't afford to trade draft picks so there is not much we can offer in the way of compensation.

I like Watkins but we gave up way too much for him. If EJ had panned out we'd be fine, but he didn't and now we are really screwed.

[trapezeus]

Did you look at Mariota's size before posting this?

He's 6'4"/220 you do realize, right?

I'm not big on PAC-10 QBs in general because the defensive competition is lighter than the other major conferences. Having said that, I'd gladly trade Watkins and this year's 1st and either this year's 2nd or next year's (2016's) 1st for Mariota and either Benjamin or Beckum, which we probably could have had.

Going for a QB in the 2nd doesn't make sense for this team. It'll likely not be the answer and force us to play that candidate next season, or otherwise waste the only decent pick we have this year on a QB for one season, a rookie one at that.

What intrigues me about Mariota in particular is that he's only thrown 2 INTs in 277 attempts and 1 TD for fewer than every 10 attempts.

He's also been sacked 25 times and seems to have gotten up just fine.

i looked at him in the last few games. i am not a college expert. i will defer to you, expert of everything. He looks incredibly lean and very breakable. he has the body type more of a bradford than a manning. that's all i'm saying.

I'll await your 75 page write up and then not read it.

[Fletch]

people are gonna hate this post but yes we will have a new starting qb..................


EJ

go back and read what whaley said about him 2015 will be the year of EJ then the change is coming

dont hate me im just the messenger

This forum doesn't seem to like messengers of news that isn't favorable.

[Fletch]

i looked at him in the last few games. i am not a college expert. i will defer to you, expert of everything. He looks incredibly lean and very breakable. he has the body type more of a bradford than a manning. that's all i'm saying.

I'll await your 75 page write up and then not read it.

Yeah, I didn't realize that in your world taking a peek at a couple of publicly available common numbers required being an expert. That could be a clue as to some of the issues that you have with me and others.

You sure talk like an expert all the time for suggesting that you're not one.

You sure do complain a lot about things that are completely and totally under your control, like not reading my posts.

Just a quick question, is your "ignore" function broken?

[Buffalogic]

i looked at him in the last few games. i am not a college expert. i will defer to you, expert of everything. He looks incredibly lean and very breakable. he has the body type more of a bradford than a manning. that's all i'm saying.

I'll await your 75 page write up and then not read it.
:lolabove:

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Did you look at Mariota's size before posting this?

He's 6'4"/220 you do realize, right?

6'4-6'5 220 is pretty lanky tbh. Even Tom Brady has 5 pounds on that, Kaepernick (a lanky dude himself) has 10, Manning has 10, Big Ben and Cam each have 20+. I think he would need to bulk up a little at the NFL level.


I'm not big on PAC-10 QBs in general because the defensive competition is lighter than the other major conferences.

The Pac12 is one of the better QB conferences IMO.

[Mr. Miyagi]

We should draft 2 QBs in every draft. Eventually one of them will turn out to be a diamond in the rough.

[notacon]

Orton sucks. He is never to get any better.

It would be smarter to go with EJ and see exactly if he can be a steady second string QB while we conduct the unending search for a QB solution.

If the Bills do nothing and keep Orton as starter for next season, then I will know they are not serious to build a winning team.

First on the docket is to fire the whole GM, and coaching staff. Every single one of them. Get a real football guy in here, and start from scratch. This needs to be done ASAP after the season ends.

[Fletch]

6'4-6'5 220 is pretty lanky tbh. Even Tom Brady has 5 pounds on that, Kaepernick (a lanky dude himself) has 10, Manning has 10, Big Ben and Cam each have 20+. I think he would need to bulk up a little at the NFL level.

As he would no doubt like most. Kid's what, 21/22?

My point was that his size is probably about average and contrary to what trapezeus suggested, that he can't take a pounding, he's been sacked 25 times this season and 35 times in the prior two seasons and seems to have few durability issues.

Given his ridiculous ability to not throw INTs I'd take a gamble on him in a heartbeat. Either way, there's increasing sentiment that he'll be the first QB to go and many are saying he may be 1st overall.

Besides, he's 6'4"/220 and he'd probably grow into 230. That's not lanky. That's about Brady's size, 6'4"/225.



The Pac12 is one of the better QB conferences IMO.

Who besides Luck and Rodgers in the league now that's any good?

Foles had a great season last year but isn't playing so well this season.

I guess when I think of the PAC-12 I typically think of USC and all their stinkers. Leinart, Sanchez, Barkley

My point was that I think that a big part of the lack of translation from college to pro in the PAC-10 has to do with the fact that the PAC-12 typically doesn't feature any top defenses. Even this year, I just looked, there's only one PAC-12 team, from what I saw, in the top-50 of overall defense.

It is not nor has traditionally been a defensive conference. That then falls back to the notion of competition faced in college vs. the pros.

[Fletch]

Orton sucks. He is never to get any better.

It would be smarter to go with EJ and see exactly if he can be a steady second string QB while we conduct the unending search for a QB solution.

If the Bills do nothing and keep Orton as starter for next season, then I will know they are not serious to build a winning team.

First on the docket is to fire the whole GM, and coaching staff. Every single one of them. Get a real football guy in here, and start from scratch. This needs to be done ASAP after the season ends.

That makes sense, but as people often ask, who else would you have at QB, we'd need a replacement.

I'm not sure that the team can officially acquiesce to conceding the season like that. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in disagreement with you, but looking at it from their perspective.

Also, we've gotta try to develop our receiving corps too. It can't just be about the backup QB.