Odell Bekham - Amazing

[Mahdi]

I'm happy we have Sammy but this kid is ridiculous.

Reminds me of a young, bigger Steve Smith.

Everyone must watch the catch he just made on SNF.

[Fletch]

I'm happy we have Sammy but this kid is ridiculous.

Reminds me of a young, bigger Steve Smith.

Everyone must watch the catch he just made on SNF.

So if given the option now, you wouldn't trade Sammy for Beckum and a mid-round 1st and 4th next season?

[stuckincincy]

Like Smith...does he constantly push off and get away with it? :scooter:

[imbondz]

It was a crazy catch but I'd love to know how much glue or whatever they use was on those gloves.

[Fletch]

It was a crazy catch but I'd love to know how much glue or whatever they use was on those gloves.

Those gloves are great. You've used 'em, haven't you? They're far better than that stick-um ever was. Wet leather is great for grip.

[Mahdi]

So if given the option now, you wouldn't trade Sammy for Beckum and a mid-round 1st and 4th next season?

Difficult question at this point. Bekham is clearly a star but I still feel Sammy is the better all around WR.

Nor thing that needs to happen is that Marrone needs to make sure Sammy is targeted 15 times per game without exception.

[Fletch]

Difficult question at this point. Bekham is clearly a star but I still feel Sammy is the better all around WR.

Nor thing that needs to happen is that Marrone needs to make sure Sammy is targeted 15 times per game without exception.

I'm thinking that if there truly was a special WR in this past draft, Beckum is the one. He missed 4 games and is presently the Giants' leading receiver and may very well outperform all the other rookies on 4 fewer games.

[Mahdi]

I'm thinking that if there truly was a special WR in this past draft, Beckum is the one. He missed 4 games and is presently the Giants' leading receiver and may very well outperform all the other rookies on 4 fewer games.

Could be. I think when evaluators watch the two in college there is unanimous agreement that Watkins is the sure star. Bekham was probably seen as clearly talented but not a sure star.

Of course that doesn't always mean it's reality once they get to the NFL.

Still I think we got the better overall player for now.

[Joe Fo Sho]

So if given the option now, you wouldn't trade Sammy for Beckum and a mid-round 1st and 4th next season?

I don't know how anyone wouldn't rather have that. I'd even go a step further and say that I wish we kept Stevie.

Right now we have Sammy Watkins, where we could have Beckham, Stevie, and our 1st round pick next year. This team is killing me.

[The Jokeman]

I'm thinking that if there truly was a special WR in this past draft, Beckum is the one. He missed 4 games and is presently the Giants' leading receiver and may very well outperform all the other rookies on 4 fewer games.

Who else does Eli have to pass to though? When Cruz and Jennings went down with injury Eli had to look elsewhere. That's why studying just stats as stats isn't fair. Watkins has performed well as a number 1.

[Fletch]

Who else does Eli have to pass to though? When Cruz and Jennings went down with injury Eli had to look elsewhere. That's why studying just stats as stats isn't fair. Watkins has performed well as a number 1.

Who else does Orton have to throw to? Nothing better than Eli has.

[The Jokeman]

Who else does Orton have to throw to? Nothing better than Eli has.

Robert Woods is a serviceable player and we have RBs that we can dump passes to. Eli doesn't have that.

[Fletch]

Could be. I think when evaluators watch the two in college there is unanimous agreement that Watkins is the sure star. Bekham was probably seen as clearly talented but not a sure star.

Of course that doesn't always mean it's reality once they get to the NFL.

Still I think we got the better overall player for now.

That's clearly a very subjective statement though, you agree with that, right?

As to unanimous agreement, there's unanimous agreement every year regarding a bunch of draft picks, but reality never matches all of those unanimous, or even vast majority, agreements. That's what separates the better teams from teams like us, we seem to go chasing what others say instead of having people in place that can come to their own conclusions that may not agree with unanimity or majority.

[Mahdi]

I don't know how anyone wouldn't rather have that. I'd even go a step further and say that I wish we kept Stevie.

Right now we have Sammy Watkins, where we could have Beckham, Stevie, and our 1st round pick next year. This team is killing me.

Ya but Watkins to me looks like Dez Bryant. Just because Bekham is looking good it doesn't mean he's better.

[Fletch]

Ya but Watkins to me looks like Dez Bryant. Just because Bekham is looking good it doesn't mean he's better.

We'll see, but Watkins has been the least consistent of the top WRs coming out.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Wow. Talk about beating a dead horse.

[Novacane]

Wow. Talk about beating a dead horse.


Fletch will be beating this dead horse 5 years from now

[stuckincincy]

I don't that that any of the teams drafting wrs high anticipated this flurry of flags. If it continues, I wouldn't draft one early, next time around.

[Fletch]

Fletch will be beating this dead horse 5 years from now

Kinda like I've been beating it on Spiller for five years I guess. At least I've been fully vindicated on him as I will be on Watkins too. They've been saying the same exact things about Spiller during that time and praticularly after he was drafted. Unfortunately it's taken many almost that full five years to come the conclusion that Spiller really isn't very special after all.

It was actually a pretty decent conversation until now.

Do you have a comment on the topic, or is it simply your goal to attack the poster and not the post?

Honestly, I think if you step outside of Buffalo very few people are going to agree that the best WR in this past draft was Watkins, I don't even think he'd make the top-2 at this point, maybe not even the top-3.

Sit tight, you'll be hearing exactly that soon and the only people suggesting otherwise will be Bills fans.

Did you read what I said above? Beckum has essentially matched what Watkins has done in 3 fewer games. His QB has played almost identically to how Orton has played. In the meantime, no one seems to want to discuss why Hogan's average numbers are only marginally less than Watkins with the same QB.

Many Bills fans are overrating Watkins it would seem.

[WagonCircler]

Difficult question at this point. Bekham is clearly a star but I still feel Sammy is the better all around WR.

Nor thing that needs to happen is that Marrone needs to make sure Sammy is targeted 15 times per game without exception.

HELLO!!!!!!

Is he TWICE as good as Beckham? HELL NO.

The Giants selected Beckham at #13 of the first round last year. Did they use next year's first and fourth too?

Anyone who thinks we didn't overpay for Sammy is blind.

[Ginger Vitis]

Fletch will be beating this dead horse 5 years from now

Except when Watkins has a 2 touchdown game.. Or a last second TD to win a game.. Or a game where Watkins has 7+catches..Fletchie is pretty quiet the week after those kinds of performance from Watkins

[Ingtar33]

Watkins made bank when teams were playing us in man coverage with 1 deep and blitzing/crowding the LOS. since the jets game teams have adjusted, they don't blitz much, play a lot more cover2 and cover3 and don't crowd the line. since they made those changes watkins' numbers have dropped pretty badly.

Part of that is no running game to force the opponents to respect the ground attack, part of it is the QB isn't all that accurate short (he also doesn't have great timing with his wrs, so a lot of passes are coming in late) and of course the line blows which really limits your options in the passing game.

[Fletch]

Except when Watkins has a 2 touchdown game.. Or a last second TD to win a game.. Or a game where Watkins has 7+catches..Fletchie is pretty quiet the week after those kinds of performance from Watkins

Good point, and since we're talking comps:

Watkins: Three 7+ catch games, one 2 TD game, three 1 TD games.

Benjamin: Three 7+ catch games, one 2 TD game, six 1 TD games.

Evans: Three 7+ catch games, two 2 TD games, three 1 TD games.

Beckum: Three 7+ catch games (on 3 fewer games), two 2 TD games, one 1 TD game.

Jordan Matthews: Two 7+ catch games, two 2 TD games, two 1 TD games.

Benjamin and Watkins 10 starts each, Evans 9 starts, Matthews and Beckum 6 starts.

I mean it's not like I'll be the only one in the football loving world suggesting this, everyone outside of Buffalo already is saying the same thing.

Blame it on me if you want, but the facts are the facts.

The bottom line is that he didn't come close to making the statements about him and how he'd help the team this season happen whereas other rookie WRs are having a much bigger impact.

Here are some things to consider:

Watkins: 5 games with 3 or fewer receptions, 6 games with fewer than 35 yards.

Evans: 0 games with 3 or fewer receptions, 0 games with fewer than 35 yards.

Benjamin: 5 games with 3 or fewer receptions, 1 game with fewer than 35 yards.

Beckum: 1 game with 3 or fewer receptions, 2 games with fewer than 35 yards.

Matthews: 3 games with 3 or fewer receptions, 3 games with fewer than 35 yards.

Say what you want, the talk around the league at the end of the season isn't going to be about Watkins being the best WR. As I've said all season, he won't even get OROY honors or even be in 2nd place for it.

[Fletch]

Watkins made bank when teams were playing us in man coverage with 1 deep and blitzing/crowding the LOS. since the jets game teams have adjusted, they don't blitz much, play a lot more cover2 and cover3 and don't crowd the line. since they made those changes watkins' numbers have dropped pretty badly.

Part of that is no running game to force the opponents to respect the ground attack, part of it is the QB isn't all that accurate short (he also doesn't have great timing with his wrs, so a lot of passes are coming in late) and of course the line blows which really limits your options in the passing game.

I won't disagree, but other than Matthews in that list above, Benjamin, Evans, and Beckum's QB, OL, and RB situations really haven't been much different. It's not as if Watkins was more consistent with Jackson and Spiller in the lineup, he wasn't.

[WagonCircler]

Good point, and since we're talking comps:

Watkins: Three 7+ catch games, one 2 TD game, three 1 TD games.

Benjamin: Three 7+ catch games, one 2 TD game, six 1 TD games.

Evans: Three 7+ catch games, two 2 TD games, three 1 TD games.

Beckum: Three 7+ catch games (on 3 fewer games), two 2 TD games, one 1 TD game.

Jordan Matthews: Two 7+ catch games, two 2 TD games, two 1 TD games.

Benjamin and Watkins 10 starts each, Evans 9 starts, Matthews and Beckum 6 starts.

I mean it's not like I'll be the only one in the football loving world suggesting this, everyone outside of Buffalo already is saying the same thing.

Blame it on me if you want, but the facts are the facts.

The bottom line is that he didn't come close to making the statements about him and how he'd help the team this season happen whereas other rookie WRs are having a much bigger impact.

Here are some things to consider:

Watkins: 5 games with 3 or fewer receptions, 6 games with fewer than 35 yards.

Evans: 0 games with 3 or fewer receptions, 0 games with fewer than 35 yards.

Benjamin: 5 games with 3 or fewer receptions, 1 game with fewer than 35 yards.

Beckum: 1 game with 3 or fewer receptions, 2 games with fewer than 35 yards.

Matthews: 3 games with 3 or fewer receptions, 3 games with fewer than 35 yards.

Say what you want, the talk around the league at the end of the season isn't going to be about Watkins being the best WR. As I've said all season, he won't even get OROY honors or even be in 2nd place for it.

I don't like you.

But this is an epic post.

[Fletch]

I don't like you.

But this is an epic post.

I can appreciate that. It's not my goal to get you to like me. Believe me, I'm not eager to meet a bunch of people from here either. I appreciate your not attacking me though.

They're just facts.

[Mike13]

Its amazing that Landry and Beckham made Mettenberg look so good.

[swiper]

I see they still use stick 'em in the NFL.

[TacklingDummy]

In typical Bills fashion, they trade (overpaid)up in the draft to draft a WR in a WR deep draft.

Just like reaching for a QB in the 1st round in a QB weak draft.

[Novacane]

Do you have a comment on the topic, or is it simply your goal to attack the poster and not the post?

.


This is why you get attacked on the subject



Except when Watkins has a 2 touchdown game.. Or a last second TD to win a game.. Or a game where Watkins has 7+catches..Fletchie is pretty quiet the week after those kinds of performance from Watkins



You post 24/7 when one of the other rookie WR have a big game. You vanish when Watkins has a big game or the others have a bad game then cry when people say your'e anti Bills.

You love to play the poor Fletch card. Nobody will debate me in a civil conversation

[Buckets]

Like Smith...does he constantly push off and get away with it? :scooter:

Like you it looked to me that he should have been called for taking down the defender.

[coastal]

Buhbye Whaley...

[trapezeus]

I'm thinking that if there truly was a special WR in this past draft, Beckum is the one. He missed 4 games and is presently the Giants' leading receiver and may very well outperform all the other rookies on 4 fewer games.

you remain an unreadable poster.

remember the one you wanted was benjamin at 9...you never mentioned beckum when he wasn't playing. now that you have some fodder for anyone but watkins you keep posting.

[imbondz]

Eli Manning to David Tyree in the SuperBowl is still the greatest catch I've ever seen. Pretty sure it was 3rd down, last drive of the SB, can't have more pressure than that, then Manning scrambles out of a sure sack, and hits Tyree who catches the ball with the help of his helmet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpWhKgH8bWE

[coastal]

you remain an unreadable poster.

remember the one you wanted was benjamin at 9...you never mentioned beckum when he wasn't playing. now that you have some fodder for anyone but watkins you keep posting.
Look at his username.

FLETCH

hes admitting in his username that he has multiple personalities.

i know who it is.

[Fletch]

This is why you get attacked on the subject






You post 24/7 when one of the other rookie WR have a big game. You vanish when Watkins has a big game or the others have a bad game then cry when people say your'e anti Bills.

You love to play the poor Fletch card. Nobody will debate me in a civil conversation :cry: :baby: Act like a douche and that's what happens!

That's simply untrue. I've said absolutely nothing that should cause anyone in this thread to say what you just said.

I've posted equally after Watkins has had a big game. I tend to avoid the Watkins threads because people on your side are doing exactly what you said, laying out their agendas and slamming everyone and anyone going into those threads with "see I told ya so's."

If you really want to be objective, try taking a look at the entire season so far. In the interests of discussing the topic, the best that you can do is to make excuses as to why Watkins hasn't even come close to proving himself the best WR in this class, much less even among the top 3.

Again, facts are facts.

I have nothing against you and I said nothing to incite you or otherwise rile you. Yet you violate the terms of service by attacking me and cluttering up the forum with stuff like this.

Watkins is what he is, not because I've decreed it, but because he has either done or conversely not done what you and others claimed he could and would do. Sorry, again, those are just the facts. I present them for discussion and argument, that's all.

Seems as if you're angry at me because I am right and have been all along to this point. Frankly I don't care about being right or wrong, only those claiming that others do seem to care about being right. I am content to simply discuss these things in a civil manner whereas you seem to be the one having difficulty doing so. There haven't been any problems until now with your posts and yet you blame it on me.

[Fletch]

you remain an unreadable poster.

remember the one you wanted was benjamin at 9...you never mentioned beckum when he wasn't playing. now that you have some fodder for anyone but watkins you keep posting.

You know what, then don't read them. Why do you keep reading them?

If you're not reading them, then why do you comment on what you haven't read?

There can be only one reason, personal vendetta.

[Fletch]

you remain an unreadable poster.

remember the one you wanted was benjamin at 9...you never mentioned beckum when he wasn't playing. now that you have some fodder for anyone but watkins you keep posting.

Once again, entirely untrue.

I'm not sure why you have difficulty understanding the tremendously simple concept from which I argue this point.

I have always maintained the position that we'd have been better off with one of the next best WRs while keeping our 1st and 4th's for this upcoming draft. I did say that if I were going to trade up like that I'd have grabbed Evans instead, but my choice would have been to keep our picks and grab one of the next best. I pointed out Benjamin too, another poster added Beckum into the argument before he started posting ridiculous numbers a few weeks ago, and I agreed that he'd have been fine too.

It really isn't a matter of which one, ironically all three and at least one other are all doing better than Watkins.

What's interesting about this is that you and Novacane, and who knows what coastal thinks, seem to really believe that Watkins is better despite his ridiculous inconsistency and lack of stats matching the others otherwise. If the roles were reversed and I were arguing that way, you'd be throwing up stuff about how I was ignoring all kinds of stats and reality to make my point.

[trapezeus]

because you respond 14 times in a row in any given post.

and nice dodge of being called out that you wanted benjamin ahead of beckum. Joe Busc this morning was talking about how the bills were high on beckum at 9 if the trade up didn't happen.

The truth of the matter is it's a deep class and watkins and now beckum have made some big plays that have caught people's attention. a few weeks ago, watkins was all you heard the press talk about. Now after last night's performance you'll hear beckum talked about. it will be about consistency in the long run.

And tell me, do you think a guy who has manning or orton/manuel will put up better numbers in the long run?

[trapezeus]

Once again, entirely untrue.

I'm not sure why you have difficulty understanding the tremendously simple concept from which I argue this point.

I have always maintained the position that we'd have been better off with one of the next best WRs while keeping our 1st and 4th's for this upcoming draft. I did say that if I were going to trade up like that I'd have grabbed Evans instead, but my choice would have been to keep our picks and grab one of the next best. I pointed out Benjamin too, another poster added Beckum into the argument before he started posting ridiculous numbers a few weeks ago, and I agreed that he'd have been fine too.

It really isn't a matter of which one, ironically all three and at least one other are all doing better than Watkins.

What's interesting about this is that you and Novacane, and who knows what coastal thinks, seem to really believe that Watkins is better despite his ridiculous inconsistency and lack of stats matching the others otherwise. If the roles were reversed and I were arguing that way, you'd be throwing up stuff about how I was ignoring all kinds of stats and reality to make my point.

when watkins inevitably has another big game, we'll watch you stay away from the boards. and that's how we know you are a troll, fletch/very wide right.

[coastal]

cmon Fletch... tell us all who u r.

[Fletch]

because you respond 14 times in a row in any given post.

Maybe part of that is because posters like you perpetually lay out things that I never said and positions that I've never held. Naturally you see no problems with those posts by you and others.

I respond to certain posts made by others. Unfortunately this forum, unlike other softwares, does not have the ability to state which poster it is that you are referring to. Either way, I almost always include the post that I'm responding to. There are two active threads right now that I've made posts in over the last several days or week for the most part. None of the others.

So explain why you post attacking me after these posts, that you claim you don't read, and feel the need to put them in? Aren't you simply capable of ignoring them? Put me on ignore for petes sakes. You won't have to read any of em. I'd be ecstatic if you did. Why don't you? You claim you don't want to read my posts but then feel compelled to chase me around commenting on most of them but not on the posts, on me.

Do you view this as being mentally stable? I view it as being somewhat unhinged. Unless I respond to one of your posts, don't respond otherwise. When I did today you don't address the facts and still take issue with me. This isn't normal or healthy mental behavior.



and nice dodge of being called out that you wanted benjamin ahead of beckum. Joe Busc this morning was talking about how the bills were high on beckum at 9 if the trade up didn't happen.

I'm well on record as having stated the following and you wont' find anything to the contrary posted here.

1. I wouldn't have traded up to get Watkins.

2. Given that trade up I'd have taken Evans.

3. With our original pick and assuming that both would have been gone at 9th, if we had to have a WR at 9th (highly questionable in my mind to begin with) I'd have gone for Benjamin next.

4. Another poster a week or two ago said he'd have taken Beckum, to which I pointed out that he'd have been fine too if it had meant keeping our picks but that the difference between him and Evans and Benjamin was size. Evans/Benjamin are both in that Calvin Johnson/AJ Green size mold whereas Beckum is more in the DeSean Jackson size mold from a physical perspective.

Either way, defending the notion that Watkins was A, the best use of two 1st-rounders, and B, even close to being the best of this WR draft class, is futile at this point.

At this point I would take Evans, Benjamin, Beckum, or Matthews in exchange for Watkins and our 1st and 4th's back this season.



The truth of the matter is it's a deep class and watkins and now beckum have made some big plays that have caught people's attention. a few weeks ago, watkins was all you heard the press talk about. Now after last night's performance you'll hear beckum talked about. it will be about consistency in the long run.

The truth of the matter is that it was a deep draft class, as I've pointed out from day one, and that numerous WRs have outshone Watkins. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Another truth is that as I posted above, Watkins has easily been the least consistent WR of the highest profile WR draft prospects.

Here are the current rookie WR stats:


<tbody>

Games
Receiving


Rk

Year
Age
Draft
Tm
Lg
G
GS
Tgt
Rec
Yds
Y/R
TD
Y/G
Ctch%


1
Mike Evans (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EvanMi00.htm)
2014
21
1-7
TAM (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam/2014.htm)
NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
10
10
82
49
841
17.16
8
84.1
59.8


2
Kelvin Benjamin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BenjKe00.htm)
2014
23
1-28
CAR (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2014.htm)
NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
11
10
98
52
768
14.77
8
69.8
53.1


3
Sammy Watkins (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm)
2014
21
1-4
BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2014.htm)
NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
10
10
84
45
649
14.42
5
64.9
53.6


4
Jordan Matthews (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MattJo00.htm)
2014
22
2-42
PHI (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2014.htm)
NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
11
7
77
50
635
12.70
6
57.7
64.9


5
Odell Beckham (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BeckOd00.htm)
2014
22
1-12
NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2014.htm)
NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
7
6
59
41
609
14.85
5
87.0
69.5


6
Brandin Cooks (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CookBr00.htm)
2014
21
1-20
NOR (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nor/2014.htm)
NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
10
7
69
53
550
10.38
3
55.0
76.8


7
Allen Robinson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RobiAl02.htm)
2014
21
2-61
JAX (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/jax/2014.htm)
NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
10
8
81
48
548
11.42
2
54.8
59.3


8
Taylor Gabriel (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GabrTa00.htm)
2014
23

CLE (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2014.htm)
NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
11
1
57
30
540
18.00
1
49.1
52.6


9
John Brown (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowJo02.htm)
2014
24
3-91
ARI (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/crd/2014.htm)
NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)
11
3
70
37
529
14.30
5
48.1
52.9

</tbody>

Here are some facts about that data:

Of 9 rookie WRs with at least 500 receiving yards and a minimum of 30 catches,

Watkins ranks tied for 1st in starts.
Watkins ranks 4th in yards-per-game.
Watkins ranks 6th in catch %.
Watkins ranks 5th in yards-per-reception.
Watkins ranks tied for 4th for TDs with two other receivers that have 3 and 6 starts to Watkins' 10, one of which missed 4 games entirely.

That doesn't even come close to qualifying him as even in the running for best WR rookie. The only thing he comes close to leading is starts. The rest of his numbers don't match those.



And tell me, do you think a guy who has manning or orton/manuel will put up better numbers in the long run?

Presumably you mean Eli, but apparently you are unfamiliar with the heat that Eli's taken so far this season. Were you even aware that his and Orton's stats on average were almost identical? It doesn't seem so.

Manning has averaged 1.9 TDs/game and just under 260 passing yards. Orton has averaged just over 260 ypg and 1.7 TDs/game. Orton's completion % is higher as is his rating.

Your point was?

And let's discuss the QBs of the others while we're at it.

Evans had had Glennon and McCown, neither of which has outperformed Orton statistically.
Benjamin has Newton who's been injured the whole season and has struggled worse than Manning and is also taking a rash.
Foles' numbers are worse than Orton's too and Foles and Sanchez (LOL) combined are worse than Manning's.
Do we even need to mention Robinson with Bortles down in Jax, who trails Watkins only marginally with what could very well be the worst QB play of any team in the league.

This too is something that I've often repeated, several times in response to direct posts by you, yet you still post as if I never showed you this info, and yet you blame me for reposting it.

I think that if you're going to use QBs as an excuse, then you should at least go run some comps on their play vice the play of our QBs this season in doing so. Don't you think that would be a better way to approach an argument?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Ya but Watkins to me looks like Dez Bryant. Just because Bekham is looking good it doesn't mean he's better.

You might be right, and time will tell. However the point that I'm trying to make isn't who is the better receiver today or who will be the best receiver tomorrow. It's what combination of assets would make the Bills a better team.

I see three scenarios that the Bills could be in right now.

1 - Current situation...with Sammy Watkins.
2 - No trade up, still trading away Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year.
3 - No trade up, keep Stevie...

- - - Updated - - -


Ya but Watkins to me looks like Dez Bryant. Just because Bekham is looking good it doesn't mean he's better.

You might be right, and time will tell. However the point that I'm trying to make isn't who is the better receiver today or who will be the best receiver tomorrow. It's what combination of assets would make the Bills a better team.

I see three scenarios that the Bills could be in right now.

1 - Current situation...with Sammy Watkins.
2 - No trade up, still trading away Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year.
3 - No trade up, keep Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year, and Stevie.

I like option 3.

[Fletch]

when watkins inevitably has another big game, we'll watch you stay away from the boards. and that's how we know you are a troll, fletch/very wide right.

So let me see if I understand this, you actually want me to come and put up averages and how Watkins' relates, and lags, other rookie WRs after he has a big game?

I've regularly posted those tables every 3 or 4 weeks. I think this is the third time this season that I've done so.

[Fletch]

cmon Fletch... tell us all who u r.

That's funny. At times people have accused me of being you too.

I have one moniker. I'll happily take credit for being another dozen or two dozen posters just to liven things up and keep charades going.

Did you want to discuss football, or just me? I'm not interested in shagging questions or insults regarding myself.

I thought that forums like these were supposed to be about football, how come you guys clutter it up with junk about me and other posters?

trapezeus slams me for things that he also takes issue with other posters on. So do numerous other posters. Can't just be me although I can see why I am high up the list. Gotta be tough acknowledging that someone people hate so much is right so often. Not that I care about being right, I simply enjoy discussing, but you guys all care about being right and have tremendous difficulty in dealing with it when you're not, particularly when I am. Such is life though.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You might be right, and time will tell. However the point that I'm trying to make isn't who is the better receiver today or who will be the best receiver tomorrow. It's what combination of assets would make the Bills a better team.

I see three scenarios that the Bills could be in right now.

1 - Current situation...with Sammy Watkins.
2 - No trade up, still trading away Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year.
3 - No trade up, keep Stevie...

- - - Updated - - -



You might be right, and time will tell. However the point that I'm trying to make isn't who is the better receiver today or who will be the best receiver tomorrow. It's what combination of assets would make the Bills a better team.

I see three scenarios that the Bills could be in right now.

1 - Current situation...with Sammy Watkins.
2 - No trade up, still trading away Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year.
3 - No trade up, keep Stevie...we'd have Evans/Beckham/Benjamin/Matthews as well as an additional 4th rounder and 1st next year, and Stevie.

I like option 3.

I don't know how I submitted this to look like it does...but oh well.

Also, are we sure that Sammy was going to be the 1st WR taken? Would Tampa still have drafted Evans if Sammy was available? Would Sammy fall to us at 9? Would it have been possible for us to have Sammy and our 1st next year? Obviously no one knows for sure, but stranger things have happened.

[coastal]

That's funny. At times people have accused me of being you too.

I have one moniker. I'll happily take credit for being another dozen or two dozen posters just to liven things up and keep charades going.

Did you want to discuss football, or just me? I'm not interested in shagging questions or insults regarding myself.

I thought that forums like these were supposed to be about football, how come you guys clutter it up with junk about me and other posters?

trapezeus slams me for things that he also takes issue with other posters on. So do numerous other posters. Can't just be me although I can see why I am high up the list. Gotta be tough acknowledging that someone people hate so much is right so often. Not that I care about being right, I simply enjoy discussing, but you guys all care about being right and have tremendous difficulty in dealing with it when you're not, particularly when I am. Such is life though.
Liar liar pants on fire.

[Fletch]

I don't know how I submitted this to look like it does...but oh well.

Also, are we sure that Sammy was going to be the 1st WR taken? Would Tampa still have drafted Evans if Sammy was available? Would Sammy fall to us at 9? Would it have been possible for us to have Sammy and our 1st next year? Obviously no one knows for sure, but stranger things have happened.

As I've said before, it was foolish to get rid of Stevie. He was the glue in the chemistry department between Manuel and the receiving units. Sure he had his issues, but he also offered much. First Bills' WR to ever post three consecutive B2B 1,000-yard receiving seasons. That's not just something you throw away.

A number of people have posted that they'd rather have had Stevie, Woods, Hogan, and any one of the following, Benjamin, Evans, or Beckum, along with our 1st and 4th picks this year.

Anyone arguing contrarily must think that if we could trade Watkins right now for our 1st and 4th this year and Benjamin or Beckum that it would be a bad deal for us. Otherwise, they too would have to agree that that trade, in hindsight, was a foolish one.

It's going to hurt us, not have helped us, come the draft in April.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

As I've said before, it was foolish to get rid of Stevie. He was the glue in the chemistry department between Manuel and the receiving units. Sure he had his issues, but he also offered much. First Bills' WR to ever post three consecutive B2B 1,000-yard receiving seasons. That's not just something you throw away.

A number of people have posted that they'd rather have had Stevie, Woods, Hogan, and any one of the following, Benjamin, Evans, or Beckum, along with our 1st and 4th picks this year.

Anyone arguing contrarily must think that if we could trade Watkins right now for our 1st and 4th this year and Benjamin or Beckum that it would be a bad deal for us. Otherwise, they too would have to agree that that trade, in hindsight, was a foolish one.

It's going to hurt us, not have helped us, come the draft in April.

i disagree on the stevie front. he was not all there last year and dropped more than his fair share of passes last year and appeared he did not want to be here. that's my opinion though

[trapezeus]

Maybe part of that is because posters like you perpetually lay out things that I never said and positions that I've never held. Naturally you see no problems with those posts by you and others.

I respond to certain posts made by others. Unfortunately this forum, unlike other softwares, does not have the ability to state which poster it is that you are referring to. Either way, I almost always include the post that I'm responding to. There are two active threads right now that I've made posts in over the last several days or week for the most part. None of the others.

So explain why you post attacking me after these posts, that you claim you don't read, and feel the need to put them in? Aren't you simply capable of ignoring them? Put me on ignore for petes sakes. You won't have to read any of em. I'd be ecstatic if you did. Why don't you? You claim you don't want to read my posts but then feel compelled to chase me around commenting on most of them but not on the posts, on me.

Do you view this as being mentally stable? I view it as being somewhat unhinged. Unless I respond to one of your posts, don't respond otherwise. When I did today you don't address the facts and still take issue with me. This isn't normal or healthy mental behavior.




I'm well on record as having stated the following and you wont' find anything to the contrary posted here.

1. I wouldn't have traded up to get Watkins.

2. Given that trade up I'd have taken Evans.

3. With our original pick and assuming that both would have been gone at 9th, if we had to have a WR at 9th (highly questionable in my mind to begin with) I'd have gone for Benjamin next.

4. Another poster a week or two ago said he'd have taken Beckum, to which I pointed out that he'd have been fine too if it had meant keeping our picks but that the difference between him and Evans and Benjamin was size. Evans/Benjamin are both in that Calvin Johnson/AJ Green size mold whereas Beckum is more in the DeSean Jackson size mold from a physical perspective.

Either way, defending the notion that Watkins was A, the best use of two 1st-rounders, and B, even close to being the best of this WR draft class, is futile at this point.

At this point I would take Evans, Benjamin, Beckum, or Matthews in exchange for Watkins and our 1st and 4th's back this season.




The truth of the matter is that it was a deep draft class, as I've pointed out from day one, and that numerous WRs have outshone Watkins. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

Another truth is that as I posted above, Watkins has easily been the least consistent WR of the highest profile WR draft prospects.

Here are the current rookie WR stats:


<tbody>

Games

Receiving



Rk


Year

Age

Draft

Tm

Lg

G

GS

Tgt

Rec

Yds

Y/R

TD

Y/G

Ctch%



1

Mike Evans (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/EvanMi00.htm)

2014

21

1-7

TAM (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam/2014.htm)

NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)

10

10

82

49

841

17.16

8

84.1

59.8



2

Kelvin Benjamin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BenjKe00.htm)

2014

23

1-28

CAR (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2014.htm)

NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)

11

10

98

52

768

14.77

8

69.8

53.1



3

Sammy Watkins (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WatkSa00.htm)

2014

21

1-4

BUF (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2014.htm)

NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)

10

10

84

45

649

14.42

5

64.9

53.6



4

Jordan Matthews (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MattJo00.htm)

2014

22

2-42

PHI (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/phi/2014.htm)

NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)

11

7

77

50

635

12.70

6

57.7

64.9



5

Odell Beckham (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BeckOd00.htm)

2014

22

1-12

NYG (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyg/2014.htm)

NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)

7

6

59

41

609

14.85

5

87.0

69.5



6

Brandin Cooks (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CookBr00.htm)

2014

21

1-20

NOR (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nor/2014.htm)

NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)

10

7

69

53

550

10.38

3

55.0

76.8



7

Allen Robinson (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RobiAl02.htm)

2014

21

2-61

JAX (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/jax/2014.htm)

NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)

10

8

81

48

548

11.42

2

54.8

59.3



8

Taylor Gabriel (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GabrTa00.htm)

2014

23


CLE (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/2014.htm)

NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)

11

1

57

30

540

18.00

1

49.1

52.6



9

John Brown (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrowJo02.htm)

2014

24

3-91

ARI (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/crd/2014.htm)

NFL (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2014/)

11

3

70

37

529

14.30

5

48.1

52.9


</tbody>

Here are some facts about that data:

Of 9 rookie WRs with at least 500 receiving yards and a minimum of 30 catches,

Watkins ranks tied for 1st in starts.
Watkins ranks 4th in yards-per-game.
Watkins ranks 6th in catch %.
Watkins ranks 5th in yards-per-reception.
Watkins ranks tied for 4th for TDs with two other receivers that have 3 and 6 starts to Watkins' 10, one of which missed 4 games entirely.

That doesn't even come close to qualifying him as even in the running for best WR rookie. The only thing he comes close to leading is starts. The rest of his numbers don't match those.




Presumably you mean Eli, but apparently you are unfamiliar with the heat that Eli's taken so far this season. Were you even aware that his and Orton's stats on average were almost identical? It doesn't seem so.

Manning has averaged 1.9 TDs/game and just under 260 passing yards. Orton has averaged just over 260 ypg and 1.7 TDs/game. Orton's completion % is higher as is his rating.

Your point was?

And let's discuss the QBs of the others while we're at it.

Evans had had Glennon and McCown, neither of which has outperformed Orton statistically.
Benjamin has Newton who's been injured the whole season and has struggled worse than Manning and is also taking a rash.
Foles' numbers are worse than Orton's too and Foles and Sanchez (LOL) combined are worse than Manning's.
Do we even need to mention Robinson with Bortles down in Jax, who trails Watkins only marginally with what could very well be the worst QB play of any team in the league.

This too is something that I've often repeated, several times in response to direct posts by you, yet you still post as if I never showed you this info, and yet you blame me for reposting it.

I think that if you're going to use QBs as an excuse, then you should at least go run some comps on their play vice the play of our QBs this season in doing so. Don't you think that would be a better way to approach an argument?


again repeating the same things over and over again.

1.you are not a genius or a guy standing on an island on not liking trading up for a WR.
2 it's done, they did take the best WR in the long run. your ability to pop up first thing in the morning when a different rookie does one thing is amazing! I already showed you how benjamin actually puts up his numbers in garbage time and that in the same games, he has performed much worse than sammy. but no response.
3. i forgot eli manning and kyle orton will go down as similar quarterbacks over the last 10 years. forgive me by not going by this year's stats and looking at their careers as a whole.
4. and most importantly, you are a troll trying to make it seem like you are rooting for the team, but all you want is to be proven right. and you haven't been no matter how often you point out outliers in the weeks they exist and disappear in the weeks you have nothing to go on.

you werent on this board the last couple years, so it's a real irritate to those of us who have been here for a while to see your constant doctorate postings as though you alone are the most knowledgeable football fan in the world.

[Fletch]

again repeating the same things over and over again.

1.you are not a genius or a guy standing on an island on not liking trading up for a WR.
2 it's done, they did take the best WR in the long run. your ability to pop up first thing in the morning when a different rookie does one thing is amazing! I already showed you how benjamin actually puts up his numbers in garbage time and that in the same games, he has performed much worse than sammy. but no response.
3. i forgot eli manning and kyle orton will go down as similar quarterbacks over the last 10 years. forgive me by not going by this year's stats and looking at their careers as a whole.
4. and most importantly, you are a troll trying to make it seem like you are rooting for the team, but all you want is to be proven right. and you haven't been no matter how often you point out outliers in the weeks they exist and disappear in the weeks you have nothing to go on.

you werent on this board the last couple years, so it's a real irritate to those of us who have been here for a while to see your constant doctorate postings as though you alone are the most knowledgeable football fan in the world.

That's very interesting.

The very first posts this morning in this thread were attacks by yourself and Novacane on me and really having absolutely nothing to do with my posts.

Secondly, were any of those posts responded to as a result of yours or Novacane's? The answer is no. So why the need to follow me around and make these comments, continually and perpetually? But you're not being repetitive. I get it.

Yeah, I wonder what would have happened, or not happened I guess, had you two not started in. What do you think? I'm thinking that a good portion of the BS part of this thread wouldn't even exist. But yeah, it's my fault. Right.

What was that you were saying about repeating the same things over and over again?

Oh yeah, you were complaining about repeating the same things over and over again. Presumably your incessant complaints about me, the person, not the posts that I make, don't qualify. I'll ignore the implications of that.

Otherwise, try this on for size, try not repeating incessantly lies about what I actually have said thereby all but forcing me to respond to them and set you straight on them. I realize that it's one of your personal goals here to do whatever you can to make me look bad, hammer on me, even if that includes completely and mercilessly lying about what I've said in the past. Either way, your comments on repeating the same things over and over again should be internalized.

Otherwise, your post lays out exactly the criticisms that I've made about you in this and the other thread.

But no, you're not repeating yourself for what now, the 100th time, in your above statements?

I'm pretty sure that everyone here gets it, you think I'm a troll, hate the team, want to see them lose, etc. I'm thinking if you say that a couple hundred more times you might have more success in getting the point across, what do you think? Again, not that you're a mirror image of your own complaints or anything.

On the rest, I'm quite sorry that you have intellectual difficulties such as distinguishing between a single season in each of two QBs' careers and their entire careers. Most people don't seem to have those troubles.

[Fletch]

you werent on this board the last couple years, so it's a real irritate to those of us who have been here for a while to see your constant doctorate postings as though you alone are the most knowledgeable football fan in the world.

I put this up separately.

Once again, you have to read them why?

You have to respond to them why?

Again, is your ignore function broken or not properly functioning?

You have total control over the very things that you gripe about. Yet, you don't do anything at all about it.

I'll save the analysis on that for someone else.

[WagonCircler]

otta be tough acknowledging that someone people hate so much is right so often.

Well, if you're right every day for 100 consecutive years, you might just break even for how wrong you were about the Bills moving.

Massive, epic, gargantuan, Herculean, all-universe fail.

[Lone Stranger]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen. Please stick to the point. There were and are a lot of good positions and analysis presented which independent observers appreciate. There is no need for mudslinging.

[Fletch]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen. Please stick to the point. There were and are a lot of good positions and analysis presented which independent observers appreciate. There is no need for mudslinging.

I do my absolute best.

Unfortunately they seem to think that there is a need for mudslinging. Just go see who initiates. I've tried to tell this to the admin, but they don't seem to see it that way.

Get involved in discussing the topics at hand, I've had numerous good exchanges except with about a half-dozen posters that can't seem to let people engage like that without that mudslinging.

[Mr. Pink]

I do my absolute best.

Unfortunately they seem to think that there is a need for mudslinging. Just go see who initiates. I've tried to tell this to the admin, but they don't seem to see it that way.

Get involved in discussing the topics at hand, I've had numerous good exchanges except with about a half-dozen posters that can't seem to let people engage like that without that mudslinging.

I enjoy the fact that you actually stick to football even if I disagree on the Watkins point.

In the short term it may hamper this team but in the long term he has a chance to be every bit as good as Dez Bryant.

Of course, they should have just drafted Bryant instead of Spiller but that's a whole separate point entirely.

For some reason though there's games where Orton or EJ simply just didn't look his way and it's baffling. It's also baffling that they don't have designed bubble screens to try and get Watkins in space to make a play. Watching the Browns game yesterday I saw the Browns have two designed bubble screens to Gordon to put the ball in their best playmakers hands, he gained about 30 yards on the two plays and it made me wonder why the hell that's not in the playbook here.

[Fletch]

Of course, they should have just drafted Bryant instead of Spiller but that's a whole separate point entirely.

For some reason though there's games where Orton or EJ simply just didn't look his way and it's baffling. It's also baffling that they don't have designed bubble screens to try and get Watkins in space to make a play. Watching the Browns game yesterday I saw the Browns have two designed bubble screens to Gordon to put the ball in their best playmakers hands, he gained about 30 yards on the two plays and it made me wonder why the hell that's not in the playbook here.

Yeah, or Wilson instead of TJ Graham too.

I'm also befuddled as to why they don't get Williams involved more. You know I didn't think as much of him coming in as most here did, but dangitall, the guy's got some worth out there, especially in the red zone where we are struggling the most. He's the biggest receiver we have.

It's clear that those running this team don't know what they're doing during the offseasons. They run the team like a bunch of fans that have been drinking at a sports bar.

I can't remember the last time that they actually reached for a player that actually panned out. It's always drafting at the least well stocked positions in the draft and preventing themselves from drafting in those same positions when the drafts are actually rich with that talent. This year they go get Watkins in a WR rich draft, which is fine, but if you do something like that you'd better make damn sure that he ends up leading that draft class or you end up looking like a fool.

This bears daily repeating in forums everywhere in order to increase the chances of it sinking in to Pegula, but Pegula really needs to take the opportunity to clean house.

Now that we're over the hump of the Toronto thing the next worry is not having "business as usual" for the next 20+ years. Wouldn't you agree?

[GvilleBills]

I started a thread a couple weeks ago, basically how even though I love Sammy the price was just too high to not have this discussion.

im no longer on the fence. I'd much rather have our picks.

Fletch is right, and I feel dirty having said that.

this OL is so historically bad that we will never see the top of Watkins Mountain before Eugene Parker drags him out of Buffalo.

[GvilleBills]

I would've liked getting OL help and Matthews, Moncrief, and Fedorwizc in a dream scenario, ah well

[Fletch]

Fletch is right, and I feel dirty having said that.

LOL

Ahh, everyone does.

:peace:

[WagonCircler]

I enjoy the fact that you actually stick to football even if I disagree on the Watkins point.

In the short term it may hamper this team but in the long term he has a chance to be every bit as good as Dez Bryant.

Of course, they should have just drafted Bryant instead of Spiller but that's a whole separate point entirely.

For some reason though there's games where Orton or EJ simply just didn't look his way and it's baffling. It's also baffling that they don't have designed bubble screens to try and get Watkins in space to make a play. Watching the Browns game yesterday I saw the Browns have two designed bubble screens to Gordon to put the ball in their best playmakers hands, he gained about 30 yards on the two plays and it made me wonder why the hell that's not in the playbook here.

The problem is, both QBs are so inaccurate (Orton less so than EJ, but still wildly inconsistent) that it doesn't matter if you had Sammy AND Dez Bryant, which speaks to the larger question: Was it wise to spend so much on a WR--any WR--when you have a gaping need at QB.

If you need an answer to that question, just look at the Bills' season.

[trapezeus]

LOL

Ahh, everyone does.

:peace:

your act is disingenous. you showed up out of control initially, and now that you have a couple weeks backing you, you play this story that posters are harassing you. when watkins next breakout performance happens, we'll see you disregard all the info that proves that 1. it's too early to defintiely tell or 2. not even show up.

i practically agree with your basic sentiment, but you unwavering lack of support of hoping that what has actually happened plays out well so the team can actually get out from under this playoff drought is irritating.

[Joe Fo Sho]

The problem is, both QBs are so inaccurate (Orton less so than EJ, but still wildly inconsistent) that it doesn't matter if you had Sammy AND Dez Bryant, which speaks to the larger question: Was it wise to spend so much on a WR--any WR--when you have a gaping need at QB.

If you need an answer to that question, just look at the Bills' season.

I think our pass protection is a bigger problem than our QB's inaccuracies. Watch the handful of plays where Orton has time to throw, he can hit the open guy. Not many QBs are accurate throwing the ball 2 seconds before they should be.

[Mr. Pink]

I think our pass protection is a bigger problem than our QB's inaccuracies. Watch the handful of plays where Orton has time to throw, he can hit the open guy. Not many QBs are accurate throwing the ball 2 seconds before they should be.

This is why some bubble screens should be run. Get the ball in the hands of your best playmaker and see if he can make some plays. It will also keep corners honest to not give huge cushion which later on you can take advantage of by trying to go deep.

But again inexplicably bubble screens aren't in the playbook. Don't get it.

[Joe Fo Sho]

This is why some bubble screens should be run. Get the ball in the hands of your best playmaker and see if he can make some plays. It will also keep corners honest to not give huge cushion which later on you can take advantage of by trying to go deep.

But again inexplicably bubble screens aren't in the playbook. Don't get it.

Can you remember the last time the Bills were consistently able to run screen plays? I really can't.

[Novacane]

Look at his username.

FLETCH

hes admitting in his username that he has multiple personalities.

i know who it is.


Fletch is Wys imo. Super long preaching unreadable posts. Uses the argument if you take away Watkins best plays his stats suck. That's Wys!

[Novacane]

I've posted equally after Watkins has had a big game

.


That's a lie. The rest of your crap isn't worth responding to.

[Mr. Pink]

Fletch is Wys imo. Super long preaching unreadable posts. Uses the argument if you take away Watkins best plays his stats suck. That's Wys!

If you take away the Bills losses they are the best team in the league.

See what I did there? ;)

[Novacane]

your act is disingenous. you showed up out of control initially, and now that you have a couple weeks backing you, you play this story that posters are harassing you. when watkins next breakout performance happens, we'll see you disregard all the info that proves that 1. it's too early to defintiely tell or 2. not even show up.

i practically agree with your basic sentiment, but you unwavering lack of support of hoping that what has actually happened plays out well so the team can actually get out from under this playoff drought is irritating.

When Watkins has his next big game Fletch will just say if you take away his 3 longest catches it wasn't a very good game.

[YardRat]

I've seen some blips claiming it was the best catch ever. Hell, it isn't even the best catch by a Giant. Tyree's catch in the Super Bowl was better.

[Fletch]

your act is disingenous. you showed up out of control initially, and now that you have a couple weeks backing you, you play this story that posters are harassing you. when watkins next breakout performance happens, we'll see you disregard all the info that proves that 1. it's too early to defintiely tell or 2. not even show up.

i practically agree with your basic sentiment, but you unwavering lack of support of hoping that what has actually happened plays out well so the team can actually get out from under this playoff drought is irritating.

LOL

Rigth, you lecturing me on being disingenuous. I've asked you about a half dozen questions regarding this situation and you haven't answered a single one.

I'm not even going to bother asking anymore. Talk about disingenuous.

I distinctly recall not posting such after the Jets game for reasons having nothing to do with anything since Watkins still wasn't leading in most categories, but rather out of deference to everyone's good mood.

Man you're cynical.

[Fletch]

Fletch is Wys imo. Super long preaching unreadable posts. Uses the argument if you take away Watkins best plays his stats suck. That's Wys!

Yeah, now I'm Wys too. LOL

That puts me up to what, about a dozen different posters.

Do you guys really think that one or two people are all those posters?

Like I said, I'll admit to being all of them.

Try talking football sometime in stead of all this garbage.

[Mr. Pink]

I am every poster, except you.

So in reality when you're talking to anyone, you're talking to me.

[Novacane]

If you take away the top 20% of Fletch's bs posts he's not that bad of a poster!

[Fletch]

I am every poster, except you.

So in reality when you're talking to anyone, you're talking to me.

LOL

Except I'm about a dozen of them I've been told. You can have the rest.

[DraftBoy]

I am every poster, except you.

So in reality when you're talking to anyone, you're talking to me.

So this is the ****ing Matrix?!?!

[Mr. Pink]

So this is the ****ing Matrix?!?!

Yes. But you are free to ask one of my other personas for a more favorable outcome.

[DraftBoy]

Yes. But you are free to ask one of my other personas for a more favorable outcome.

Who to choose...Who to choose?

[Mr. Pink]

Who to choose...Who to choose?

Always remember DB you are special and unique, just like everyone else. ;)

[DraftBoy]

Always remember DB you are special and unique, just like everyone else. ;)

Considering you are everyone else, I'm both touched and frightened.

[GvilleBills]

I feel like I ate both the red and blue pills, cuz this has got trippy

[DraftBoy]

I feel like I ate both the red and blue pills, cuz this has got trippy

And you didn't even offer to share...selfish!

[GvilleBills]

And you didn't even offer to share...selfish!
I know, but its correctable. I'll learn from this, and get better.

These damn pills have turned me into Marrone...

[wolfpack]

Solomon Wilcots: "We now know your name, Ladell Beckham Junior."

[YardRat]

Considering you are everyone else, I'm both touched and frightened.

If he touched you, you should be frightened, but could probably bring forth charges.

[Mouldsie]

I'm happy we have Sammy but this kid is ridiculous.

Reminds me of a young, bigger Steve Smith.

Everyone must watch the catch he just made on SNF.
Great comp

[starrymessenger]

I'm happy we have Sammy but this kid is ridiculous.

Reminds me of a young, bigger Steve Smith.

Everyone must watch the catch he just made on SNF.

He reminds me of a smaller, older Sammy Watkins.
Seriously, he may well be the real deal and the next Steve Smith.
Or he may just be the next Brandon lloyd.
The fact that the Giants picked him #12 in a deep WR class says a lot to me. They know how to pick 'em.