The Mad Scrambler speaks his mind.

[HAMMER]

Fran Tarkenton tells it like it is. Hope you enjoy this article, I very much did.

Not really Bills related, but I'm sick of the same old dry, crusty azz threads that have been lingering around here all week.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24869396/fran-tarkenton-rips-robert-griffin-iii-he-will-never-make-it

[Homegrown]

"That's Incredible!! "

[swiper]

HAMMER is my new favorite poster. Great article. Tarkenton, Stabler, Griese, Staubach, Fouts, numerous others. Younger kids have all this garbage to wade through today. Outside of Manning, Brady and Favre... it's mostly crap. Would rather have 100 Joe Fergusons over an EJ Manuel. It's simple. It's man over boy wanna be.

[Dr. Who]

So, in an article where Tarkenton bashes RG3 for an arrogant, entitled attitude and mostly pronounces that it is unclear about other young qbs, largely because there isn't enough of a body of work to make definitive pronouncements, some decide this is warrant for a gratuitous bashing of EJ Manuel, who, whatever his issues, certainly doesn't display an arrogant, entitled attitude.

Tarkenton was my favorite qb growing up, btw. I even had a Vikings rain slicker and adopted them as my second team. Naturally, the Bills and Vikings are a combined 0-8 in Super bowls.

[swiper]

So, in an article where Tarkenton bashes RG3 for an arrogant, entitled attitude and mostly pronounces that it is unclear about other young qbs, largely because there isn't enough of a body of work to make definitive pronouncements, some decide this is warrant for a gratuitous bashing of EJ Manuel, who, whatever his issues, certainly doesn't display an arrogant, entitled attitude.

Tarkenton was my favorite qb growing up, btw. I even had a Vikings rain slicker and adopted them as my second team. Naturally, the Bills and Vikings are a combined 0-8 in Super bowls.

Nice try at putting words in to others mouths. You must have missed the part of the article where Tarkenton talked about the lack of requisite skill required to play the position. That lack of skill is certainly a shared trait with Manuel.

[Dr. Who]

Nice try at putting words in to others mouths. You must have missed the part of the article where Tarkenton talked about the lack of requisite skill required to play the position. That lack of skill is certainly a shared trait with Manuel.

Actually, you are taking a general comment of Tarkenton's and skewing it to fit your bias, so you are the one putting words in someone else's mouth.

[WagonCircler]

Fran Tarkenton tells it like it is. Hope you enjoy this article, I very much did.

Not really Bills related, but I'm sick of the same old dry, crusty azz threads that have been lingering around here all week.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24869396/fran-tarkenton-rips-robert-griffin-iii-he-will-never-make-it

Awesome article.

One of the most interesting things is the Tark starts going through a list of relevant young QBs, and EJ isn't even on the list.

[WagonCircler]

So, in an article where Tarkenton bashes RG3 for an arrogant, entitled attitude and mostly pronounces that it is unclear about other young qbs, largely because there isn't enough of a body of work to make definitive pronouncements, some decide this is warrant for a gratuitous bashing of EJ Manuel, who, whatever his issues, certainly doesn't display an arrogant, entitled attitude.

Tarkenton was my favorite qb growing up, btw. I even had a Vikings rain slicker and adopted them as my second team. Naturally, the Bills and Vikings are a combined 0-8 in Super bowls.

EJ is the inverse of RGIII. He doesn't have the arrogance. He also doesn't have the natural talent.

They're both ridiculously injury prone, though.

[Dr. Who]

Well, EJ stayed healthy in the four games he played this year. I surmised Tarkenton was thinking of young qbs who are actually starting.

[DynaPaul]

The guy is right.

[swiper]

Actually, you are taking a general comment of Tarkenton's and skewing it to fit your bias, so you are the one putting words in someone else's mouth.

Ummm, no. Your reading comprehension is abysmal.

[Dr. Who]

Ummm, no. Your reading comprehension is abysmal.

As for the league's rookie quarterbacks, here's a quick synopsis of Tarkenton's thoughts.

Johnny Manziel: He's needs to prove he can be the right kind of locker room leader.

Teddy Bridgewater: It's unclear. He hasn't played great, but he hasn't played terribly.

Blake Bortles: "The jury is still out."

Derek Carr: "The jury is still out."

So, he doesn't really like anybody, huh?

"That's not a negative when I say the jury's still out," Tarkenton said. "In many [other] cases, after we see them play, the jury says 'no.' In these cases, I don't think the jury says 'no' on any of these quarterbacks, but they haven't played well enough to say 'yes,' either."

The above is literally the only part of the article that isn't directly talking about RG3 specifically. Show me where my reading comprehension is abysmal, genius.

[Mike]

From Article

"That’s not a negative when I say the jury’s still out," Tarkenton said. "In many [other] cases, after we see them play, the jury says 'no.'

-> Clearly EJ falls into the category where the jury says 'no' after we see them play. Geno Smith also falls into that category. And neither was worth talking about.

(QBs like EJ, Geno Smith, etc are the "other cases" Tarkenton mentioned)

[Dr. Who]

Hey Mike, that is a general comment. When you decide EJ fits that category, that is your statement, not Tarkenton's.

[Mike]

Hey Mike, that is a general comment. When you decide EJ fits that category, that is your statement, not Tarkenton's.

I agree.

I would also assume that Tarkenton would put EJ & Smith into that category as well. My assumption is based on Tarkenton's very high standards. Think about this, after RG3 had a sensational rookie season Tarkenton acutely predicted his demise! That's a very high standard, a standard EJ cames nowhere close to meeting.

[swiper]

As for the league's rookie quarterbacks, here's a quick synopsis of Tarkenton's thoughts.

Johnny Manziel: He's needs to prove he can be the right kind of locker room leader.

Teddy Bridgewater: It's unclear. He hasn't played great, but he hasn't played terribly.

Blake Bortles: "The jury is still out."

Derek Carr: "The jury is still out."

So, he doesn't really like anybody, huh?

"That's not a negative when I say the jury's still out," Tarkenton said. "In many [other] cases, after we see them play, the jury says 'no.' In these cases, I don't think the jury says 'no' on any of these quarterbacks, but they haven't played well enough to say 'yes,' either."

The above is literally the only part of the article that isn't directly talking about RG3 specifically. Show me where my reading comprehension is abysmal, genius.

In post #4 you criticized my connection with EJ based on the fact that EJ is a "nice guy" unlike RGIII. My comment was based directly on Trakenton's interpretation of RGIII's ability. I didn't say ANYTHING about his personality, genius. I referred directly to this:


Gruden came out and pointed out, which is right, that he has no mechanics. He is a terrible passer, has no accuracy, he doesn't understand the offense, he doesn't read defenses, and he has no discipline. When he is supposed to take a 3-yard drop, he takes a 1-yard drop; if he is supposed to take a 5-yard drop, it's a 3-yard drop. There's no discipline and understanding of the defense because he is a pontificator. He will never make it. He will be out of football. He will be in the same graveyard as JaMarcus Russell and Vince Young."

So take your stupid ass comments and shove them up your useless ass.

[WagonCircler]

Well, EJ stayed healthy in the four games he played this year.


He's a regular Brett Favre!

[Dr. Who]

In post #4 you criticized my connection with EJ based on the fact that EJ is a "nice guy" unlike RGIII. My comment was based directly on Trakenton's interpretation of RGIII's ability. I didn't say ANYTHING about his personality, genius. I referred directly to this:



So take your stupid ass comments and shove them up your useless ass.

Well, you are both rude and stupid. In post four, I referenced what is actually in the article. Tarkenton referred to a weakness that was key to RG3's problems, a weakness EJ Manuel does not share. The Gruden comments reference RG3. Again, this has nothing to do with EJ Manuel.

Here: I will spell it out for you. You may conclude that EJ has the same mechanical and mental problems that Gruden asserts are making RG3 a bad qb, but that is your conclusion. Gruden's expert analysis of RG3 is not an expert comment on EJ Manuel.

[starrymessenger]

Wow.
Why doesn't he tell us how he really feels.
Thats about as scathing an indictment of a player as I have ever seen.
Probably all true tho.
Good thing RG can (soon) have a useful life after football modelling underwear.

[Mike]

Here is an expert conclusion by former GM regarding EJ:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/04/11/casserly-claims-ej-manuel-would-be-the-no-8-qb-in-this-draft-class/

So far he is correct! EJ is not even playing while guys like Derek Car are showing far more than he ever did!

[Mike]

To Dr Who,

Here is a quote regarding your EJ:

“I’ve got a lot of guys rated ahead of him based on their college career and based on Manuel’s college career,” Casserly said, via Tim Graham of the Buffalo News. “Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel, Carr, Garoppolo and McCarron. I’ve got them all rated ahead of EJ Manuel, coming out a year ago. And you know what? LSU quarterback Mettenberger. I’ve got him ahead of Manuel, too.” Casserly said.

So, far he is spot on!

Even 6th round pick Mettenberger showed more this season than EJ and if they had to redo the 2014 draft with EJ in it, he probably would not even get drafted!

I doubt Tarkenton would disagree with Casserly and for sure the former GM knows more about scouting players!

[Dr. Who]

To Dr Who,

Here is a quote regarding your EJ:

“I’ve got a lot of guys rated ahead of him based on their college career and based on Manuel’s college career,” Casserly said, via Tim Graham of the Buffalo News. “Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel, Carr, Garoppolo and McCarron. I’ve got them all rated ahead of EJ Manuel, coming out a year ago. And you know what? LSU quarterback Mettenberger. I’ve got him ahead of Manuel, too.” Casserly said.

So, far he is spot on!

Even 6th round pick Mettenberger showed more this season than EJ and if they had to redo the 2014 draft with EJ in it, he probably would not even get drafted!

I doubt Tarkenton would disagree with Casserly and for sure the former GM knows more about scouting players!

I'm familiar with Casserly's quote. I am not disputing that many people do not think much of EJ. I was commenting on the interpretation of a particular article. Don't know why that is difficult to comprehend.

[Dr. Who]

Mike, in addition, I primarily entered this conversation because the original negative comment on EJ was not drawn from any direct comment in the article. Further, as I pointed out, what Tarkenton discerns as the root cause of RG3's difficulties is precisely not an issue for EJ. To bring EJ into the conversation in the first place struck me as gratuitous meanness, a habitual hallmark of the individual who first posted the comment.

I like EJ and hope he does well. First, because he plays for the team I root for, and second, because he appears to possess character and intelligence. I'm not going to apologize for that. I don't see how that makes him "my EJ."

[WagonCircler]

To Dr Who,

Here is a quote regarding your EJ:

“I’ve got a lot of guys rated ahead of him based on their college career and based on Manuel’s college career,” Casserly said, via Tim Graham of the Buffalo News. “Bridgewater, Bortles, Manziel, Carr, Garoppolo and McCarron. I’ve got them all rated ahead of EJ Manuel, coming out a year ago. And you know what? LSU quarterback Mettenberger. I’ve got him ahead of Manuel, too.” Casserly said.

So, far he is spot on!

Even 6th round pick Mettenberger showed more this season than EJ and if they had to redo the 2014 draft with EJ in it, he probably would not even get drafted!

I doubt Tarkenton would disagree with Casserly and for sure the former GM knows more about scouting players!

There's an interesting dynamic at play here.

Terry Pegula is very likely to hire a consultant at the end of the season. Ernie Acorsi has been mentioned, among others.

My guess is that most of those guys are old school, and see things like GACKING so badly on a QB and overspending foolishly on a WR, as terminable offenses.

Part of me thinks Whaley gets Darcy-style slack cut for him by Pegula--another season with a very short leash.

But as we head toward the end of the season and will likely drop 3 of our last 4 games, I'm starting to think we're about to see a housecleaning.

[YardRat]

Anybody that perceives 'gacking' on a QB so heinous that it's a 'terminable' offense probably shouldn't be near a front office, hasn't been in the league that long, and definitely isn't 'old school'. Most GM's have 'gacked' on a QB at some point in their career, and of those that haven't they probably inherited a pretty good one to begin with.

[YardRat]

And Bob Griese sucked...an over-the-hill, middle-of-the-road, end of career QB could have led that team through a championship season.

Oh...wait...one actually did...

[swiper]

Well, you are both rude and stupid. In post four, I referenced what is actually in the article. Tarkenton referred to a weakness that was key to RG3's problems, a weakness EJ Manuel does not share. The Gruden comments reference RG3. Again, this has nothing to do with EJ Manuel.

Here: I will spell it out for you. You may conclude that EJ has the same mechanical and mental problems that Gruden asserts are making RG3 a bad qb, but that is your conclusion. Gruden's expert analysis of RG3 is not an expert comment on EJ Manuel.Exactly correct. That was my point. That EJ Manuel lacks skill as RG III does. I was the one that referenced it. You were the one that so poorly tried to bend my words. You are wrong. And ignorant.

And, moreover, who cares how "nice" Manuel is if he sucks at his job? I guess you do. Like I said. Ignorant.

[Dr. Who]

Exactly correct. That was my point. That EJ Manuel lacks skill as RG III does. I was the one that referenced it. You were the one that so poorly tried to bend my words. You are wrong. And ignorant.

And, moreover, who cares how "nice" Manuel is if he sucks at his job? I guess you do. Like I said. Ignorant.

You are the one who is ignorant. I have clarified my point. The article has nothing to do with EJ Manuel and you bent it to talk about Manuel because you're the kind who gets a thrill by little acts of unnecessary meanness.

I've never put anyone on ignore before. Congrats. I suggest you do the same.

[stuckincincy]

Fran Tarkenton tells it like it is. Hope you enjoy this article, I very much did.

Not really Bills related, but I'm sick of the same old dry, crusty azz threads that have been lingering around here all week.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24869396/fran-tarkenton-rips-robert-griffin-iii-he-will-never-make-it

Fran will give you a speech - for a fee. $30,001 minimum.

http://www.playingfieldpromotions.com/Fran-Tarkenton.php