FistBumpGate

[Mr. Cynical]

This should go viral, but ESPN et al won't acknowledge it. #NFLisRigged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAJn1Xeh6M8&feature=share

[casdhf]

That is ridiculous.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I just posted it on Facebook. This will be taking off I hope.

[CoolBreeze]

I too hope this blows up. Not just into conversation, but an epic blow up that catches fire. Causing many to review the game. I'm sure many like us will wonder why through 3 quarters 75% of our big plays and all of our INT returns were flagged. Then why half of those phantom calls weren't shown on replay. I've never seen anything like it.

Unfortunately, it probably won't get any attention at all.

[DraftBoy]

And this is gate is now dead...

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[Mr. Cynical]

I too hope this blows up. Not just into conversation, but an epic blow up that catches fire. Causing many to review the game. I'm sure many like us will wonder why through 3 quarters 75% of our big plays and all of our INT returns were flagged. Then why half of those phantom calls weren't shown on replay. I've never seen anything like it.

Unfortunately, it probably won't get any attention at all.

Just like that overhead view of the Music City Miracle that showed it was a forward lateral. They showed that replay once, and never again. Wish I knew someone who recorded it live and could post that shot. Would be epic.

[Fixxxer]

And this is gate is now dead...

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you can go **** yourself pereira

[DynaPaul]

It's the NFL's official spinmeister. WWE.

[Goobylal]

The lady (Pereira) doth protest too much, methinks.

[pmoon6]

It's the NFL's official spinmeister. WWE.Part of the NFL's propaganda department.

[Mace]

Pereira isn't doing himself any favors by lounging in his chair looking like he just shot up some morphine or took some tranqs to educate the masses.

[CoolBreeze]

And this is gate is now dead...

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Not to shoot the messenger, but this is crap. Somehow I'm not surprised an NFL officiating minion records this to stomp out any flames before a fire starts.

[coastal]

Pereira isn't doing himself any favors by lounging in his chair looking like he just shot up some morphine or took some tranqs to educate the masses.
lol

[YardRat]

lol...Yeah, Mike...it's so common to see officials giving thumb-up's, high-fives and fist-bumps during the coarse of a game why would anybody make an issue of it?

Dumbass.

[YardRat]

Maybe somebody should've thrown a flag on the refs for excessive celebration.

[DraftBoy]

lol...Yeah, Mike...it's so common to see officials giving thumb-up's, high-fives and fist-bumps during the coarse of a game why would anybody make an issue of it?

Dumbass.

Are you sure its not? Think about it, nobody here saw it until somebody posted it to twitter and then it got posted here. How often after a call is made are you really watching the officials on your TV?

The explanation for why makes sense, even if Periera is a massive douche.

[DraftBoy]

Not to shoot the messenger, but this is crap. Somehow I'm not surprised an NFL officiating minion records this to stomp out any flames before a fire starts.

What benefit does he drive from stomping it out? Fanning offers him far more than doing bidding for a company that he doesn't work for anymore.

[YardRat]

Are you sure its not? Think about it, nobody here saw it until somebody posted it to twitter and then it got posted here. How often after a call is made are you really watching the officials on your TV?

The explanation for why makes sense, even if Periera is a massive douche.

How often has anything like that been seen in an NFL game? As you mentioned, with social media, if it was such a common occurrence some other examples would have been brought to light before this, it's not like Buffalo fans are the only demographic that would get pissed over such a display.

[casdhf]

Are you sure its not? Think about it, nobody here saw it until somebody posted it to twitter and then it got posted here. How often after a call is made are you really watching the officials on your TV?

The explanation for why makes sense, even if Periera is a massive douche. I don't buy into these conspiracy theories but you mean to tell me this is the first time an official cant see the ball carrier? Also, the other official already signaled touchdown prior to this guy.

[DraftBoy]

How often has anything like that been seen in an NFL game? As you mentioned, with social media, if it was such a common occurrence some other examples would have been brought to light before this, it's not like Buffalo fans are the only demographic that would get pissed over such a display.

You can't know or prove that. You're jumping to broad reaching conclusions based on what amounts to nothing but speculation. You can not like Pereira all you want, and I can't stand his condescension, but if the mechanics of the call were correct then what the **** are we even arguing about?

True, but Buffalo fans haven't always been the most rational of critics when it came to calls (real or imagined) against their team over the last decade or so.

[BertSquirtgum]

And this is gate is now dead...

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yeah ****ing right. he is spinning it to deflect the criticism away.

[DraftBoy]

I don't buy into these conspiracy theories but you mean to tell me this is the first time an official cant see the ball carrier? Also, the other official already signaled touchdown prior to this guy.

Not sure what your question is alluding to. Are you saying you think the call was wrong or rigged?

[CoolBreeze]

What benefit does he drive from stomping it out? Fanning offers him far more than doing bidding for a company that he doesn't work for anymore.

I don't care if FOX signs his paycheck. He works for the NFL through FOX. He will do as they tell him

[GreedoII]

you guys are idiots. They got the play right is why he did that. Man some fans are complete morons

[DraftBoy]

I don't care if FOX signs his paycheck. He works for the NFL through FOX. He will do as they tell him

No, he doesn't. To say otherwise is completely false.

[Mace]

A
The explanation for why makes sense, even if Periera is a massive douche.

I disagree here. The officials are supposed to be arbitrators of impartial, and maintain that appearance. It doesn't matter if we see them or not, it's not a fist bump job and Pereiera should be front and foremost pointing it out instead of lounging elegantly and waving his pinky in dismissal.

So maybe, to take it to the next obvious level, an official can moonwalk to celebrate a good call.

The appearance of impartial is critical to their function and the best interests of the league. They have no business cheering themselves for how it might look, not ever. I've never seen such a thing and some doped up, duded out pinky waving guy is not the best way for the league to project common sense to a blue collar sports fanbase imho.

[DraftBoy]

I disagree here. The officials are supposed to be arbitrators of impartial, and maintain that appearance. It doesn't matter if we see them or not, it's not a fist bump job and Pereiera should be front and foremost pointing it out instead of lounging elegantly and waving his pinky in dismissal.

So maybe, to take it to the next obvious level, an official can moonwalk to celebrate a good call.

The appearance of impartial is critical to their function and the best interests of the league. They have no business cheering themselves for how it might look, not ever. I've never seen such a thing and some doped up, duded out pinky waving guy is not the best way for the league to project common sense to a blue collar sports fanbase imho.

A fist bump does not show impartiality unless you're looking for it to do so.

He could do a backflip into a cartwheel, and then land a triple lutz and I wouldn't care. He'd also probably still only get a seven from the French judge. Celebrating a good call is the very least of the problems with the league.

The appearance is in your head. And I use the plural tense of your.

[CoolBreeze]

No, he doesn't. To say otherwise is completely false.

Yes, he does.. So if the NFL didn't want him there, he'd still keep his job? FOX and the NFL wouldn't replace him?

[casdhf]

Not sure what your question is alluding to. Are you saying you think the call was wrong or rigged?
Neither. I'm saying the explanation from Fox is crap. The other official had already signaled touchdown.

[Mace]

A fist bump does not show impartiality unless you're looking for it to do so.

He could do a backflip into a cartwheel, and then land a triple lutz and I wouldn't care. He'd also probably still only get a seven from the French judge. Celebrating a good call is the very least of the problems with the league.

The appearance is in your head. And I use the plural tense of your.

Maybe it is in my head.

I just can't see need or reason for a fist bump from officials on any play. Never seen it before, have a funny feeling I never will again in a pro game.

[DraftBoy]

Neither. I'm saying the explanation from Fox is crap. The other official had already signaled touchdown.

I'm not sure the one sideline official could see the other with the pile. Most plays like this have both refs running in making the signal.

Maybe they didn't need it, but again the call was good and the call mechanics worked right. Not sure how that makes it a crap explanation, unless your saying one of those two things is untrue.

[DraftBoy]

Maybe it is in my head.

I just can't see need or reason for a fist bump from officials on any play. Never seen it before, have a funny feeling I never will again in a pro game.

And if it doesn't, that somehow justified the idea that is showed impartiality?

Also not even a little credit for referencing the 2002 Figure Skating scandal with the French judge in this thread? I'm disappointed.

[Mace]

And if it doesn't, that somehow justified the idea that is showed impartiality?

Also not even a little credit for referencing the 2002 Figure Skating scandal with the French judge in this thread? I'm disappointed.

Like I said, I mentioned the appearance of impartiality, that is their job.

But yes, major props for the 2002 skating scandal. I'm just vexed about griping about officials in a game we lost to a better team.

Frankly the Canadians skating to "Love Story" made me weep and it horrified me they lost.

Hm, anyway, the refs should have been impartially not fist bumping Mister Man.

[Scumbag College]

I don't know why the NFL and Fox came out with such a statement in such a short period of time...if it was so ridiculous that people reacted to this, then why even dignify it?

[DraftBoy]

Like I said, I mentioned the appearance of impartiality, that is their job.

But yes, major props for the 2002 skating scandal. I'm just vexed about griping about officials in a game we lost to a better team.

Frankly the Canadians skating to "Love Story" made me weep and it horrified me they lost.

Hm, anyway, the refs should have been impartially not fist bumping Mister Man.

Well until the NFL figures out how to send mind control waves through our collective televisions the appearance of anything is always going to be completely subjective.

It was a phenomenal skate.

I don't really care if the correct call is made which nobody is disputing, that I have seen.

[Mr. Pink]

If this is the Steelers-Seahawks Superbowl and the refs are fist bumping after giving Roethlisberger a TD that he clearly didn't get, then I'd see a problem with it. But the play was correctly called on the field as a TD so what else would the refs be celebrating other than getting the call right?

[DraftBoy]

I don't know why the NFL and Fox came out with such a statement in such a short period of time...if it was so ridiculous that people reacted to this, then why even dignify it?

Well first off it was Fox, not the NFL. To the why that's simple, it is because people collectively are stupid.

[CoolBreeze]

I don't know why the NFL and Fox came out with such a statement in such a short period of time...if it was so ridiculous that people reacted to this, then why even dignify it?

THIS^

Good point, For such a ridculous reaction, they sure got right on top of it to discredit it.

[OpIv37]

Here's the thing: Maybe if the officials do their jobs properly, no one notices a stupid fist bump.

But the Bills have been victimized by many bad calls this year, including several in this specific game that led to that specific touchdown. And it's not just the Bills. The officiating has been awful league-wide and fans of many teams are frustrated.

If the league had full time officials, maybe this wouldn't be an issue. If the league actually reviewed calls and disciplined officials who ****ed up, maybe this wouldn't be an issue. But fans have lost confidence in the officiating and the league is refusing to take even the most basic steps to fix the issue.

[DraftBoy]

Yes, he does.. So if the NFL didn't want him there, he'd still keep his job? FOX and the NFL wouldn't replace him?

The NFL doesn't not control the contract for who Fox hires as a TV analyst. Pereira went after the NFL about the replacement official debacle and has gone after college conferences as well in the games he does for them. To assume he is bought and paid for is just wrong.

[Strongman]

Just like that overhead view of the Music City Miracle that showed it was a forward lateral. They showed that replay once, and never again. Wish I knew someone who recorded it live and could post that shot. Would be epic.

People look at me like I'm crazy when I mention that replay. I also distinctly remember seeing it once and it was never shown again.

[jpdex12]

You can't know or prove that. You're jumping to broad reaching conclusions based on what amounts to nothing but speculation. You can not like Pereira all you want, and I can't stand his condescension, but if the mechanics of the call were correct then what the **** are we even arguing about?

True, but Buffalo fans haven't always been the most rational of critics when it came to calls (real or imagined) against their team over the last decade or so.
Seriously, the refs reviewed the play and still missed the fact that Anderson's ass hit the ground before the ball crossed the goal line. Watch it! Don't call it a conspiracy if you want but how do you explain so many bad or missed calls? That head butt was in front of everybody and god.

[DraftBoy]

Seriously, the refs reviewed the play and still missed the fact that Anderson's ass hit the ground before the ball crossed the goal line. Watch it! Don't call it a conspiracy if you want but how do you explain so many bad or missed calls? That head butt was in front of everybody and god.

Neither of which are germane to this discussion. Nobody is excusing some of the ****ty calls today, but this thread is not about those.

And I don't call it a conspiracy because it isn't one.

[YardRat]

I'm not even positive it was the correct call...there was a still being passed around shortly after that clearly showed one elbow down on the goal line with the ball in the other arm not crossing the plane yet.

"Meh...just give it to 'em."

[Thurmal]

Here's the deal -- the fist bump was innocuous and probably not a celebration of any kind. BUT...BUT, the only reason it's becoming a big deal is that anyone who watched the game saw officiating that was undoubtedly one-sided for a premier team. That game was orchestrated so Denver could win, pure and simple. If you don't believe it, catch me some crabs while your head is buried in the sand.

[Scumbag College]

Well first off it was Fox, not the NFL. To the why that's simple, it is because people collectively are stupid.

The NFL makes billions off of Fox, and Fox makes billions off of the NFL. So, the two are intertwined and one hand washes the other. Whenever two multi-billion dollar corporations get together, usually the consumer suffers either with being gouged or with the quality of the product decreasing.

I don't think that the refs were celebrating a Denver TD by fist bumping each other. I'm sure that if there was some sort of league wide conspiracy that the refs would be coached on not to do that. But, there have been enough grumbles from fans of some teams that the glamor teams with the marquee names get all of the calls. My problem is why would an employee of this multi-billion dollar conglomerate make an official statement like that over some fans on message boards and some "journalists" on the periphery of legitimate media's Tweets? It just seems that there are enough people angry enough that teams with marquee QBs in big markets always seem to get calls.

[DraftBoy]

Here's the deal -- the fist bump was innocuous and probably not a celebration of any kind. BUT...BUT, the only reason it's becoming a big deal is that anyone who watched the game saw officiating that was undoubtedly one-sided for a premier team. That game was orchestrated so Denver could win, pure and simple. If you don't believe it, catch me some crabs while your head is buried in the sand.

I don't think anybody can possibly dispute that some really bad calls were made in this game for the Broncos.

[DraftBoy]

The NFL makes billions off of Fox, and Fox makes billions off of the NFL. So, the two are intertwined and one hand washes the other. Whenever two multi-billion dollar corporations get together, usually the consumer suffers either with being gouged or with the quality of the product decreasing.

None of that has anything to do with the fact that Fox employs Pereria not the NFL.


I don't think that the refs were celebrating a Denver TD by fist bumping each other. I'm sure that if there was some sort of league wide conspiracy that the refs would be coached on not to do that. But, there have been enough grumbles from fans of some teams that the glamor teams with the marquee names get all of the calls. My problem is why would an employee of this multi-billion dollar conglomerate make an official statement like that over some fans on message boards and some "journalists" on the periphery of legitimate media's Tweets? It just seems that there are enough people angry enough that teams with marquee QBs in big markets always seem to get calls.

If there really were enough people angry they would stop watching, but they don't because on Sunday its vogue to ***** and moan how your team got screwed, on Monday its time to blame the players and/or coaches, on Tuesday its about some other bull****, and by Wednesday its on to next week and more record breaking ratings. People aren't angry, they are just venting and often times being irrational, which is why over time it dies down and there is no impact.

[CoolBreeze]

The NFL doesn't not control the contract for who Fox hires as a TV analyst. Pereira went after the NFL about the replacement official debacle and has gone after college conferences as well in the games he does for them. To assume he is bought and paid for is just wrong.

Went after the NFL? That's just a tad dramatic. The replacement official debacle is crumbs compared to the allegations on this thread. However, I apologize I didn't know college football was also his area.

I still disagree, he may disagree with the NFL on the replacement refs, but he's not dumb enough to question or fuel something this big. The NFL doesn't have control of his contract. They do have their contract with FOX, and with the money the NFL makes FOX every Sunday.

It's difficult for me to believe that if Mike doesn't showcase the NFLs interest the way they want him he to, he would still be reporting for them. To think FOX wouldn't put him on NCAA Football only or buy out his contract is naive. FOX and the NFL are partners, they're not gonna piss each other off.

[YardRat]

If Periera came off consistently being critical of the officials he would be replaced quicker than a ref can pull a flag after a long Buffalo gain.

[Meathead]

the fist bump really doesnt bug me at all, just a spontaneous confirmation of a call got correctly or something. so what. but i can also see how its not normal protocol either, and in a game where you are serial botching calls totally in one teams direction those fans are obviously going to be looking for reasons to hate you. the more i think about it the more i want to hate you right now too. bastards and their fist pumps

[Strongman]

I wish I could fist bump Pereira right in his smug face...

[DraftBoy]

If Periera came off consistently being critical of the officials he would be replaced quicker than a ref can pull a flag after a long Buffalo gain.

Speculation at best and you know that. Many media outlets makes tons of money by hiring analysts/personalities that purposefully argue against popular/team/leagues line of thinking.

The NFL is going to give their TV deal to what networks offer them the most money, they aren't going to care if a former league official is spouting off on a few games a week.

[YardRat]

Check out the penalty logs for both teams...timing on down and distance, yards taken away from gains, etc. Denver's all came on 1st or 2nd down and resulted in a whopping 19 yards being lost, not including penalty yardage. All on offense too...not a single penalty on the defense, all game. Buffalo lost more than 100 yds on the two picks and a FJ run being called back alone.

Bull****.

[DraftBoy]

Check out the penalty logs for both teams...timing on down and distance, yards taken away from gains, etc. Denver's all came on 1st or 2nd down and resulted in a whopping 19 yards being lost, not including penalty yardage. All on offense too...not a single penalty on the defense, all game. Buffalo lost more than 100 yds on the two picks and a FJ run being called back alone.

Bull****.

Not germane to the discussion and you know that.

[YardRat]

Speculation at best and you know that. Many media outlets makes tons of money by hiring analysts/personalities that purposefully argue against popular/team/leagues line of thinking.

The NFL is going to give their TV deal to what networks offer them the most money, they aren't going to care if a former league official is spouting off on a few games a week.

Bull****. Name one network with the TV contract that has a single talking head that 'purposefully argue' against the NFL consistently. Local radio jackasses don't count for ****.

[DraftBoy]

Bull****. Name one network with the TV contract that has a single talking head that 'purposefully argue' against the NFL consistently. Local radio jackasses don't count for ****.

ESPN.

Wilbon constantly goes after the NFL, Bayless as well.

[feldspar]

And this is gate is now dead...

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What is REALLY telling is that this guy should HAVE to say something like this.

Hmmmm.

Must be something there for him to address this issue so soon.

Did this asswipe watch the game? I'd like to know what he REALLY thought about the way it was called. It was an abomination.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

ESPN.

Wilbon constantly goes after the NFL, Bayless as well.

Espn suspended Bill Simmons just this season for being critical of Goodell.

[Mace]

Neither of which are germane to this discussion. Nobody is excusing some of the ****ty calls today, but this thread is not about those.

And I don't call it a conspiracy because it isn't one.

Sort of is significant, the two officials on the line didn't notice it wasn't a touchdown and celebrated it.

17203

[ParanoidAndroid]

Indignation often shines a light on guilt.

[DraftBoy]

Espn suspended Bill Simmons just this season for being critical of Goodell.

Simmons who has a history being suspended and being inflammatory.

[BuffaloRedleg]

The thing is that game changing calls go towards the marquee teams all the time. A few candy calls will go towards the other team to almost make it feel like it is legit.

At this point, I can't even tell if it is just referees are human and more likely to see it against good teams, or if it is fixed.

I like to believe it is the former but I can't tell the difference if it is the latter anymore.

How about we simplify the game a little and take the referees out of it instead of making more rules?

[BuffaloRedleg]

Indignation often shines a light on guilt.

Aw cute was that your fortune cookie you got with your snackie meal at Gillette Stadium?

[pmoon6]

Interesting that a Network talking head had to do damage control before it became an issue.

It was a preemptive "Shuush" for the rubes that still believe that the NFL is real football.

As far as Daftboy's point, the Networks want to protect the NFL from scrutiny because of the Benjamins.

It is a vast conspiracy complete with a propaganbda arm.

Kinda like the federal government that has convinced the rubes that they are still free.

[swiper]

The idea of refs giving each other props like that for making a correct call is not only ridiculous, if it were true (which it clearly is not), it is tremendously unprofessional.

[DraftBoy]

Interesting that a Network talking head had to do damage control before it became an issue.

It was a preemptive "Shuush" for the rubes that still believe that the NFL is real football.

As far as Daftboy's point, the Networks want to protect the NFL from scrutiny because of the Benjamins.

It is a vast conspiracy complete with a propaganbda arm.

Kinda like the federal government that has convinced the rubes that they are still free.

The networks employ people that are critical of the league already as has already been pointed out.

[DraftBoy]

The thing is that game changing calls go towards the marquee teams all the time. A few candy calls will go towards the other team to almost make it feel like it is legit.

At this point, I can't even tell if it is just referees are human and more likely to see it against good teams, or if it is fixed.

I like to believe it is the former but I can't tell the difference if it is the latter anymore.

How about we simplify the game a little and take the referees out of it instead of making more rules?

Yea like the Pats last night with that Browner penalty that wasn't and cost the Pats a pick six when they down 1 point...wait that doesn't fit into the narrative...

[BertSquirtgum]

The networks employ people that are critical of the league already as has already been pointed out.

You're a clown. Shut the fat up.

[TacklingDummy]

The idea of refs giving each other props like that for making a correct call is not only ridiculous, if it were true (which it clearly is not), it is tremendously unprofessional.

Is it unprofessional for a WR to celebrate making a 1st down?

[trapezeus]

The NFL doesn't not control the contract for who Fox hires as a TV analyst. Pereira went after the NFL about the replacement official debacle and has gone after college conferences as well in the games he does for them. To assume he is bought and paid for is just wrong.

disingenious comment. the NFL absolutely can flex their muscle on what stories are covered or not on FOX, CBS, NBC, ESPN. There have been a lot of articles about sports journalism and how dependent it is to stay in the good graces of the team to get access. in turn certain stories get covered or don't.

if someone found a smoking gun on ref impartiality, i'm sure many of the "sports journalists" on the major networks with the NFL contract would glaze over it. they would be doing their network "too much harm".

that's the world we live in. and that's the reality. pretending that because fox hired him, the NFL won't flex it's muscle when it does on practically everything else is laughable.

[better days]

And this is gate is now dead...

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Pereira calls it the DENVER game.

Not the Buffalo game.

Not the Denver/Buffalo game.

It is the DENVER game.

We KNOW what we are talking about.

This is the same IDIOT that called the Manziel play where he fumbled the ball an incomplete pass.

[casdhf]

Neither of which are germane to this discussion. Nobody is excusing some of the ****ty calls today, but this thread is not about those.

And I don't call it a conspiracy because it isn't one. The entire point of this discussion has gone over your head. Forget about this particular call. In a game where several horrible calls went against the Bills, you don't think the fact that two Refs fist bumped over a Denver touchdown could be connected to these terrible calls? You're looking at one call in a vacuum.

That being said, I do not buy the fact that their bias would be shown that carelessly.

[Historian]

As someone who reffed youth hockey for a lot of years, I can tell you that impartiality is the most important thing you have to have to do the job. Without it your credibility is zero. The guy who heads up the WNY football officials use3d to tell us the same thing at little league games.

The second most is knowing the rule book.

The fistbump, while it may be innocuous on the surface, lends credibility to the theory that these games are "slanted".

[starrymessenger]

Even if you accept Mike's explanation it is very poor optics.
Also context counts for a lot.
This happened during a game where one team (guess who) was constantly getting jobbed with bad, backbreaking calls.
Bills aren't the only victims.
Poor officiating may well be the thing most impacting (negatively) the NFLs credibility.
Major rethinking/overhaul needed.

[trapezeus]

i have the solutions....maybe goodell should be paid $88MM a season and the refs should still be part time workers.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

DraftBoy, remember when I suggested that all penalties should be available for replay and explained by officials? And you thought that was pointless?

This is the exact situation I was talking about. Do we know what Hughes was flagged for?

[trapezeus]

remember the pears push of a DB like 2 seconds after the play? i can give you countless times that pushing after the play happens and its not called. don't believe it? what about a guy trying to head butt Lee Smith after smith loses his helmet after being tackled and standing up!

Tell me how that isn't a demonstratable level of bias in yesterday's crew?

[DraftBoy]

DraftBoy, remember when I suggested that all penalties should be available for replay and explained by officials? And you thought that was pointless?

This is the exact situation I was talking about. Do we know what Hughes was flagged for?

Not thought, still think.

Are you saying Hughes was flagged and the refs fist bumping was a celebration of that? I'm confused by your correlation.

- - - Updated - - -


The entire point of this discussion has gone over your head. Forget about this particular call. In a game where several horrible calls went against the Bills, you don't think the fact that two Refs fist bumped over a Denver touchdown could be connected to these terrible calls? You're looking at one call in a vacuum.

That being said, I do not buy the fact that their bias would be shown that carelessly.

No. I think fans are looking for what they always look for a way to claim the process was unfair.

[BertSquirtgum]

No. I think fans are looking for what they always look for a way to claim the process was unfair.

You obviously did not watch yesterdays game?

[chernobylwraiths]

remember the pears push of a DB like 2 seconds after the play? i can give you countless times that pushing after the play happens and its not called. don't believe it? what about a guy trying to head butt Lee Smith after smith loses his helmet after being tackled and standing up!

Tell me how that isn't a demonstratable level of bias in yesterday's crew?

While Pears pushed the guy after Fred was certainly down, he did so BEFORE the whistle blew. And it was only a push, he didn't drill him or anything. That was a horrible call on a day of horrible calls.

[chernobylwraiths]

I don't think much of the fist bump by the way. I just think it was completely unprofessional. What next, the fist bump with the blowup after? Or maybe chest bumps?

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Maybe somebody should've thrown a flag on the refs for excessive celebration.

with the beanie side right in the refs' eye like they did to that Browns player a few years back.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I know one thing. I am on a full boycott of the NFL from here on out. Look, I hate how baseball makes you have cable to watch all but the world series, but at least they by and large leave the outcome of pennant races and playoff games to the players and leave Joe Buck and co in the booth to do the homer crap.

[Mr. Pink]

I know one thing. I am on a full boycott of the NFL from here on out. Look, I hate how baseball makes you have cable to watch all but the world series, but at least they by and large leave the outcome of pennant races and playoff games to the players and leave Joe Buck and co in the booth to do the homer crap.

Don Denkinger says Hi.

Baseball is even easier to manipulate as different umpires have different strike zones and can call balls and strikes inconsistently all game long. Phantom tags, phantom base touches, group huddles to determine if a ball is a homer or foul.

[CoolBreeze]

Just read on ESPN:

Aaron Williams stands by ripping referees' fist-bumping.

In the article he says he doesn't care if he gets fined. I say thank you to him for getting it in the headlines.

The team and him knew from the start they were screwed. Terrible officiating

[gebobs]

The officials made some mistakes and you folks are moaning conspiracy? Good grief.

Better check and see if Orton was in on it when he took a slide three yards before the sticks.

[Downinfloflo]

The officials made some mistakes and you folks are moaning conspiracy? Good grief.

Better check and see if Orton was in on it when he took a slide three yards before the sticks.

And look who's doing it, The same crowd that blast people in the politics forums for talking about, You guessed it, Conspiracy.

[Buffalogic]

With how much money is on the line and how grand the Ray Rice cover up has been, I don't think you can discount corruption. Whether it's at the NFL level or just the officials, it seems very possible that some outcomes are decided before the game is played. To just minimize the notion of corruption by flinging around terms like conspiracy theorist while ignoring the history of this regime's leadership is foolish. If it can happen in the NBA it can happen in the NFL.

The NFL had no financial profit to gain by protecting Ray Rice and they still did so. They have billions to gain from rigging the games.

[trapezeus]

i don't think it's much of a conspiracy. it's really just good business. they try and get marquee match ups where the blowouts are less likely. they get the higher marketed name to keep the fairweather fans. it's worked well in boston. they almost believe they are die hard fans because they've been rooting on their team for almost 15 years now.

The NFL revenues aren't about making die hard fans happy. it's about keeping fairweather fans. it's the guy who buys a tebow jersey, the guy who follows the seahawks for a hot minute.

it's not much of a conspiracy if you just tell the refs, call the game a little tighter one way. it doesn't involve a lot of people, it doesn't involve fixing. it's just a matter of smoothing out the results. There is too much money to believe that the NFL would let less profitable outcomes playout.

To the extent they do during a long season, they spin the stories to capture appeal. but it's not a stretch of the imagination that the owners all know they make more money if a certain order of events happen.

[Ingtar33]

I know one thing. I am on a full boycott of the NFL from here on out. Look, I hate how baseball makes you have cable to watch all but the world series, but at least they by and large leave the outcome of pennant races and playoff games to the players and leave Joe Buck and co in the booth to do the homer crap.

not quite. the umps and the players both get paid PER GAME PLAYED in baseball playoffs. the system favors/encourages long series in baseball. I'm not saying it's fixed, i'm just saying there certainly is an almost gentlemanly wink and nod to series being stretched in baseball playoffs (this is actually something i heard from 2 ex players).

still yesterday's game was officiated poorly. No comment on the fistbump; I thought there were plenty of other calls that crew made that should have had them hanging their heads in shame.

[gebobs]

With how much money is on the line and how grand the Ray Rice cover up has been, I don't think you can discount corruption.
I haven't discounted anything. There's just zero evidence other than the anomaly hunting. It's classic conspiracy theory fare.


They have billions to gain from rigging the games.
And billions to lose if caught.

Was Wilson in on it? Is Pegula expected to play nice?

[Buffalogic]

With how fast these super bowl teams fall off it makes you question if they are just awarding superbowl wins to the highest bidder. Ravens, Saints, Giants. They have lots of the same players, same coaches, but they struggle to even stay at or above .500 since they won it all. Nobody has repeated since the Patriots (since Goodell took over).

Tagliabu was a weirdo, but it wasn't til Goodell came around that I seriously started questioning what I was watching.

[DraftBoy]

You obviously did not watch yesterdays game?

Wrong again.

[Buffalogic]

The NFL is ancient Rome and Goodell is Caligula. He inherited this absolute power controlling a cash producing monster and now the entire thing is a snake pit. No corporation in this world that generates that much profit is absent of corruption. The question is not if it exists, but who is in on it and how big of a scale.

It's going to come out.

[OpIv37]

I haven't discounted anything. There's just zero evidence other than the anomaly hunting. It's classic conspiracy theory fare.


And billions to lose if caught.

Was Wilson in on it? Is Pegula expected to play nice?

Once again, here's the problem: if the officiating is good, the anomaly can be easily dismissed as a coincidence.

But the officiating has become so biased that it's becoming harder and harder to reasonably believe that it's just blatant incompetence that the league refuses to address. People are looking for some sort of explanation as to how and why the league continues to allow the officiating to be so one-sided and this so-called anomaly is all they have to go on.

So, if the officiating was better or if the league was proactively doing something to make it better, then it would make no sense to make a big deal out of the fist bump. But it came at a time when the officiating has become horrendous. And it was a very unusual action by the officials that came after a touchdown that was set up by multiple bad calls/non-calls.

The league has millions of dollars at stake by forcing certain outcomes too, so that argument works in either direction.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

A fist bump does not show impartiality unless you're looking for it to do so.

He could do a backflip into a cartwheel, and then land a triple lutz and I wouldn't care. He'd also probably still only get a seven from the French judge. Celebrating a good call is the very least of the problems with the league.

The appearance is in your head. And I use the plural tense of your.

Surprised you know that. I have a daughter working on triples... Very specialized sports element.

[DraftBoy]

Surprised you know that. I have a daughter working on triples... Very specialized sports element.

No shame in being cultured.

[djjimkelly]

i wonder how many of the big holding calls on our returns were thrown by those 2 fist pumping does anyone know?

[pmoon6]

Favorite line of the week:

Paraphrasing, "I don't have a problem with the fist bump, at least they got one call right" ~ Cory Graham.

[better days]

And I am sick & tired of people saying it is not just bad calls against the Bills, that bad calls are made against all teams.

That may be true, but name me a single game draft boy or anyone else where bad calls against the other team impacted the game & helped the Bills to win it.

The Denver game was not an anomaly, the Bills get screwed by the officials all the time.

[gebobs]

It's confirmation bias. If you are one a fan of one of the teams that was beaten by the Bills, you may remember a few calls that you might feel swung the game in the Bills favor. I don't want to debate the call, but Goodwin fumbling at the goal line in Detroit comes to mind.

[Mr. Pink]

It's confirmation bias. If you are one a fan of one of the teams that was beaten by the Bills, you may remember a few calls that you might feel swung the game in the Bills favor. I don't want to debate the call, but Goodwin fumbling at the goal line in Detroit comes to mind.

Watkins fumbling against Miami earlier in the year.

Watkins didn't break the plane, the ball was out, it hit the pylon and should have been a touchback instead it was a TD. Bills go on to win.

It's funny how people instantly forget things like the above and just concentrate on the bad that happens.

Even with the Pats, people like claiming that the NFL is always out to help them and they've never had a bad call. The Raiders were handed a victory in the 1976 divisional round on one of the most ridiculous roughing the passer calls I've ever seen especially for how the game was played back then...that play may not even be flagged today if it happened in a game.

Every team has benefited from a bad call or been hosed on a bad call. It's not even a new phenomenon to the league.

[better days]

Watkins fumbling against Miami earlier in the year.

Watkins didn't break the plane, the ball was out, it hit the pylon and should have been a touchback instead it was a TD. Bills go on to win.

It's funny how people instantly forget things like the above and just concentrate on the bad that happens.

Even with the Pats, people like claiming that the NFL is always out to help them and they've never had a bad call. The Raiders were handed a victory in the 1976 divisional round on one of the most ridiculous roughing the passer calls I've ever seen especially for how the game was played back then...that play may not even be flagged today if it happened in a game.

Every team has benefited from a bad call or been hosed on a bad call. It's not even a new phenomenon to the league.

Those are cases of calls.

And I disagree with both of you about them.

But I was really talking more about PENALTIES called.

After TWO INTS, BOTH long returns were called back Sunday because of BS penalties that were not even shown.

That is what I am talking about. PENALTIES.

[Mr. Pink]

Those are cases of calls.

And I disagree with both of you about them.

But I was really talking more about PENALTIES called.

After TWO INTS, BOTH long returns were called back Sunday because of BS penalties that were not even shown.

That is what I am talking about. PENALTIES.

Of course you disagree on the Watkins one because it benefited the Bills. If that was Brian Hartline on that play for the Fish, you would have claimed the Bills got hosed.

And even Raider players think the roughing the passer on Stabler was a ridiculous call, including Villapiano who's been one of the most vocal about the Immaculate Reception standing.

[gebobs]

After TWO INTS, BOTH long returns were called back Sunday because of BS penalties that were not even shown.

If you didn't see them then how do you conclude they were BS? And then you make the leap that they were made to sway the game in Denver's favor? There's a leap.

What a bunch of stupid refs! Instead of negating some of a return and letting the Bills have the ball, they should have called illegal contact or something and negated the play entirely allowing Denver to retain possession!

Complaining about the refs is loser talk. Once the Bills start winning, you'll be amazed at how little there is of it. Who here remembers the call that brought back the 100+ yd pick 6 by Tony Greene against the Fish in the early 70's. Of course, the refs were out to stick it to the Bills and give the game to Miami.

As if Miami needed any help winning 20 in a row. LOL Ridiculous.

[better days]

If you didn't see them then how do you conclude they were BS? And then you make the leap that they were made to sway the game in Denver's favor? There's a leap.

What a bunch of stupid refs! Instead of negating some of a return and letting the Bills have the ball, they should have called illegal contact or something and negated the play entirely allowing Denver to retain possession!

Complaining about the refs is loser talk. Once the Bills start winning, you'll be amazed at how little there is of it. Who here remembers the call that brought back the 100+ yd pick 6 by Tony Greene against the Fish in the early 70's. Of course, the refs were out to stick it to the Bills and give the game to Miami.

As if Miami needed any help winning 20 in a row. LOL Ridiculous.

Well, if they weren't BS calls, they would have been shown.

[gebobs]

Well, if they weren't BS calls, they would have been shown.

Non sequitur.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The All-22 analysis of the penalties does clear the air quite a bit IMO.

It would be nice if the NFL did this instead of having to wait for a blogger to show what happened over 48 hours later, but take what you can get I guess.

http://www.wgr550.com/JW-All-22-Review-Playmaker-Wanted/20485040

[Ingtar33]

The All-22 analysis of the penalties does clear the air quite a bit IMO.

It would be nice if the NFL did this instead of having to wait for a blogger to show what happened over 48 hours later, but take what you can get I guess.

http://www.wgr550.com/JW-All-22-Review-Playmaker-Wanted/20485040

he was stretching the situations a little to throw blame on orton for some of that. On the slide/sack he highlighted the player who did not do what he was supposed to do (two of them actually... hogan missed the pick, watkins failed to move to the open field when the play broke down, and give the QB a target). Chandler did briefly come open, though he was moving toward a defender in position to pick the ball off if he was paying moderate attention. the play was junked from the moment hogan blew the pick and the broncos showed some pretty tight coverage in the 2ndary. Orton is to blame for the heartless slide, but that play was toast long before it, and to call out the QB for it was a bit silly.

what i saw in a lot of those plays was WRs failing to get open, there was one play, which Woods breaks open on the top of the rout, and White is wondering why orton isn't looking that way. He wasn't looking that way because the presnap read was for HOGAN to be the primary receiver. Hogan had the ideal coverage, ideal defender, and the ideal rout against the presnap look. The problem was Hogan's rout was a deeper one and took a while to develop. By the time he got to his cut and was clearly covered (basically he had the favorable coverage matchup and FAILED to get open) woods had gained a step on his cornerback and the pocket was colapsing. basically orton looked to his safetyvalve next rather then throw a pick into coverage or take a sack. He probably would have done the rest of his progression if the pocket had given him .5 seconds more. seeing that play on tape i can't blame him for not hitting woods. Simply put woods wasn't the presnap read, and the presnap read was on a rout that took too long to develop. (chandler got a little open on the play as well, but he didn't have a good passing lane for it and probably couldn't see him as a result, besides on that play against that coverage chandler would probably be the 3rd or 4th option, and he never got past no.1 before the checkdown)

[Ingtar33]

~the watkins/woods miss on the next one was again, same reason for the prior rout. the read was for Watkins to be the primary against that coverage. Watkins does his QB no favors with a lazy rout causing him to not really get any separation from the db, but it wouldn't have mattered as the safety jumps the rout. by the time the safety jumped the rout, we were already deep into the play, orton was forced to hold onto the ball a little long due to watkins not running a crisp rout (instead of a sharp cut, watkins sorta did a nice rounded turn into that crossing pattern) it changed the whole dynamic and point where the pass needed to be placed to hit him in stride, moving the "ideal"catching point nearly 15 yards from where the play wanted it to be and forcing orton to hold onto the pass a lot longer then he wanted to.

Orton makes the same mistake he did in the prior play highlighted... he failed to recognise that a safety jumping up, means someone else is getting open or at least... being left 1 on 1 deep. Both times it's woods being left in 1 on 1 while the safety was jumping something in his face. Shame the coaching staff and orton couldn't take advantage of that aggressive safety play.

[pmoon6]

And I am sick & tired of people saying it is not just bad calls against the Bills, that bad calls are made against all teams.

That may be true, but name me a single game draft boy or anyone else where bad calls against the other team impacted the game & helped the Bills to win it.

The Denver game was not an anomaly, the Bills get screwed by the officials all the time.Anyone that watched the Denver game or the NE game, for that matter, and thinks it wasn't BS is a sub moron.

Of course, the "loser" stigma that you get when you complain about the officiating is a mechanism that the NFL is very happy with. It stiffles any criticism of the game so they can continue to make money.

It also makes the person leveling the charge that if you have the temerity to say "we got jobbed" look like a "winner" by proxy. They are above making excuses. Too bad it makes them look like douchebags that don't know what they are watching as well.

[DraftBoy]

The All-22 analysis of the penalties does clear the air quite a bit IMO.

It would be nice if the NFL did this instead of having to wait for a blogger to show what happened over 48 hours later, but take what you can get I guess.

http://www.wgr550.com/JW-All-22-Review-Playmaker-Wanted/20485040

The NFL does release the film, but to require they then go through and explain every penalty that fans think were ridiculous is a herculean task that will only lead to people still disagreeing with them and calling them stooges. What's the benefit for the league?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The NFL does release the film, but to require they then go through and explain every penalty that fans think were ridiculous is a herculean task that will only lead to people still disagreeing with them and calling them stooges. What's the benefit for the league?

"Herculean" is total hyperbole and you know it, DraftBoy. The Williams and Graham penalties are clearly visible on video, and all it would take is a 15 second Vine clip (which is what the WGR writer used) to clear it up. I think the multibillion dollar NFL can afford a guy who can make vine clips.

And as I said before, you keep using the perfect solution fallacy to shoot down changes. It doesn't have to satisfy everyone to be a meaningful fix.

[Strongman]

If the refs were calling a fair game, I think we should expect around a 50/50 split of questionable calls on the Bills vs. their opponents. From what I observed, this does not seem to be happening. It routinely seems like the Bills get 90% of the questionable calls going against them while their opponent gets significantly less due to the refs not flagging penalties (like the head butt).

[gebobs]

Anyone that watched the Denver game or the NE game, for that matter, and thinks it wasn't BS is a sub moron.

Of course, the "loser" stigma that you get when you complain about the officiating is a mechanism that the NFL is very happy with. It stiffles any criticism of the game so they can continue to make money.

It also makes the person leveling the charge that if you have the temerity to say "we got jobbed" look like a "winner" by proxy. They are above making excuses. Too bad it makes them look like douchebags that don't know what they are watching as well.
Let me get this straight...you think there is intentional bias on the part of the refs?

[DraftBoy]

"Herculean" is total hyperbole and you know it, DraftBoy. The Williams and Graham penalties are clearly visible on video, and all it would take is a 15 second Vine clip (which is what the WGR writer used) to clear it up. I think the multibillion dollar NFL can afford a guy who can make vine clips.

And as I said before, you keep using the perfect solution fallacy to shoot down changes. It doesn't have to satisfy everyone to be a meaningful fix.

Is it? What's your threshold for what calls the NFL should be obligated to explain? If its every call fans think is bias or dumb then yes it would be a very large effort.

A 15 second vine clip takes a while to cut, analyze, show the angles, and explain. This isn't just pointing a mouse and hitting "send" you know that.

Again you're arguing something I haven't said. Providing solutions that satisfy you does not mean they are meaningful to everyone or the league. Even after explanation was provided for the fist bump people said it was crap. Again what benefit does it serve the league to spend time or money on this idea? The answer is very little. A solution doesn't have to be perfect but it does have to bring some value to the table. This idea does not based on the way its been presented thus far.

[better days]

IMO, any call or penalty that has an IMPACT on a game should be shown as a replay while the game is on.

[Ingtar33]

17206

not to beat a dead horse... but this is what i was talking about.

-the solid black line is the rout watkins ran
-the long dash lines is how the rout was drawn up (i assume, i had to guess a little because it doesn't really fit any clear pattern, but looking at the play this is how it looked like it was supposed to go)
-the short dashed line is how he should have run the rout, when the linebacker blitzed. the other linebacker never really moves on this play, not sure what he was covering, either way a well coached vet WR would have cut his rout a little shorter to get into the field the linebacker vacated, where all that green uncovered grass was.

the black circles are the "ideal" reception points on those routs.

there were 2 problems with the rout watkins ran, one is he drifting too far downfield on the cut, this brought him too close to the FS overtop, it also brought the "reception" point for the rout very close to Woods and his cornerback. the other is he didn't really disguise his rout... he shaded inside the whole run, and the CB turned his hips and ran with him the whole way. there was no doubt in the CB's mind watkins was crossing the field. because watkins was already drifting inside from the start of the play. had watkins run straight AT the cornerback, he could have gained some separation at the cut, as the CB would have had to honor the 9 or the deep corner or even a 10 yard out. watkins disguised none of it, and as a result the cornerback's job was made super simple. I don't really expect watkins to know how to change a rout a little bit and run to open field, he's a rookie so some of these things might take years, i don't know if the coaching staff gives him that power or not, so i won't blame him for not flattening out the rout a little bit to take advantage of all that open real estate. However, the rout he ran was UGLY. Not at all how it should have been run. And by running it wrong, he made the CB's job simple, and failed to get any seperation AND ran the rout right back into the Free Safety, completely killing the 15+ yards that denver was giving us on that play.

[gebobs]

IMO, any call or penalty that has an IMPACT on a game should be shown as a replay while the game is on.

And from several angles in super slo mo.

Meanwhile, they have run fifteen plays and the teams are in their locker rooms for half time.

[better days]

And from several angles in super slo mo.

Meanwhile, they have run fifteen plays and the teams are in their locker rooms for half time.

BS. With all the commercials run during an NFL game, a few could be run when the game is IMPACTED by a call or penalty.

[gebobs]

BS. With all the commercials run during an NFL game, a few could be run when the game is IMPACTED by a call or penalty.
EVERY call and EVERY penalty impact the game. You just want replays of the one YOU THINK impact the game.

[YardRat]

It isn't unusual by any means for broadcasts to show replays of penalties...hell, count how many times it happens in a game...any game...especially penalties that have a huge impact on the outcome of that particular play. How many times did they show Robey's illegal contact? Gilmore's PI? Pears unnecessary roughness? Urbik's holding on FJax's long run? They couldn't show, just once, either of the penalties on the INT returns?

And, yes, we did get the calls in the Miami game...not only Watkin's TD, but also the early whistle on Miami's WR that wasn't touched down.

Bad calls are a part of the game, granted, because of the human element, but theoretically absence of bias would dictate a somewhat leveling affect over the course of a season, or just a game, that would even things out. That absence isn't evident when certain teams get bad calls far more than not, or others don't suffer from them similarly.

Anybody that says 'things are even' when comparing results from a team like the Bills and a team like the Patriots just isn't paying attention.

[Buffalogic]

^ we'll get calls against bad teams the NFL doesn't care about ala Miami, Cleveland, but when it comes to playing their darling teams that are filling their coffers, we will get hosed 10 out of 10 times. I'm just sick of seeing it.

[better days]

EVERY call and EVERY penalty impact the game. You just want replays of the one YOU THINK impact the game.

BS. A five yd false start penalty is not the same as a holding penalty on a return or a PI on a long pass.

[gebobs]

BS. A five yd false start penalty is not the same as a holding penalty on a return or a PI on a long pass.
I didn't say they were. But in some cases, a false start can have WAY more impact. Just who is going to decide which calls are going to be replayed to your satisfaction?

[better days]

I didn't say they were. But in some cases, a false start can have WAY more impact. Just who is going to decide which calls are going to be replayed to your satisfaction?

Let them show a replay of all penalties if you want it that way.

I would be fine with that. And don't tell me it will slow the game down.

The NFL stops games for no other reason than to show 5 or 6 commercials all the time.

[gebobs]

Let them show a replay of all penalties if you want it that way.

I would be fine with that. And don't tell me it will slow the game down.

The NFL stops games for no other reason than to show 5 or 6 commercials all the time.

Like them or not, those commercials pay for the broadcast, at least in part. Replaying every call is utterly ridiculous. It would slow the game to a crawl.

A more reasonable solution would be to have all the replays available afterward for anyone interested in microanalyzing the referee bias or whatever, for a nominal fee of course.

[better days]

Like them or not, those commercials pay for the broadcast, at least in part. Replaying every call is utterly ridiculous. It would slow the game to a crawl.

A more reasonable solution would be to have all the replays available afterward for anyone interested in microanalyzing the referee bias or whatever, for a nominal fee of course.

That is not reasonable to pay for that nor is it convenient & as I said DON'T TELL ME IT WILL SLOW THE GAME DOWN TO SHOW REPLAYS OF PENALTIES!

The NFL STOPS games all the time for no reason but to show commercials. Those commercials can be shown before & after the replays of penalties.

[pmoon6]

I agree with G on the replay of penalties, except the game has already slowed to a crawl.

Bottom line is their commentators are muzzled and the NFL officials are incompetent, at best. More likely, they're engineering the games.

[better days]

I agree with G on the replay of penalties, except the game has already slowed to a crawl.

Bottom line is their commentators are muzzled and the NFL officials are incompetent, at best. More likely, they're engineering the games.

How about instead of stopping the game for no reason at all, it is stopped to show replays which happens all the time anyway. I doubt 2 extra minutes would be added to games to show replays of BOGUS penalties.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I think the league does this mess to be entertaining. I would not even be surprised if stuff like "fist pump" is intentional. Remember the **** about excess celebrations a few years ago where the league fined that Saints player for answering his phone and showing signs and all? That boosted controversy. It also boosted ratings. The fist bump thing does the same thing and is good for the game because it increases viewership and **** gets sold and people watch if only to find things to ***** about. It also makes worse teams seem better than they actually are. Take us for example, we are not saying we lost because we allowed lots of rushing yards, turned the ball over several times, and made crappy mistakes, now its the league is in cahoots with the Broncos.

Yes, the league is in cahoots with the Broncos and the Pats, and probably the Pack. Why? For three very simple reasons really.

1. Competative games are great for the league and the pockets of the league sponsors. If you get an overmatch you call it to keep most of the scores close. You also want fans of bad teams to think their team given the right circumstances could win. Again take us for example. A blowout loss turns people away. A close game decided by a questionable call or two makes people think that we could have a chance if it were not for the refs.

2. There are marquee names pimped by the league who get people Manufactured controversies get people to watch. If we had a Brady or a Manning or some name that sold league affiliated **** I assure you that we would have a lot of calls go our way for a change.

3. Controversies like concussions, former player suicides and health problems, and domestic violence are very bad for the game. However, the manufactured controversies such as Spygate, and fistbump, and cointoss on Thanksgiving are actually good for it because people will watch the game and theoretically buy the products pushed by the advertisers.

[Buffalogic]

The NFL is less like the NFL used to be and more like WWE now. Some of it is real, a whole lot of it is scripted.

I question nearly every move they make. I don't trust anything NFL anymore.

Spygate was real. They just did a better job hiding that because an outside source didn't have the tape ala Ray Rice, only the Patriots did. You don't destroy anything that is innocent.

The NFL does whatever the **** it wants with total disregard of morals and even laws. When some of the foul inner workings are made public they have a formula they use; first minimize the severity of the transgression, shift blame, implement a distraction, sweep the issue under the rug, ignore the backlash, hope people get lazy and forget as soon as possible. The issues just keep mounting for them so their damage control protocol is easily identified.

[pmoon6]

The NFL is less like the NFL used to be and more like WWE now. Some of it is real, a whole lot of it is scripted.

I question nearly every move they make. I don't trust anything NFL anymore.

Spygate was real. They just did a better job hiding that because an outside source didn't have the tape ala Ray Rice, only the Patriots did. You don't destroy anything that is innocent.

The NFL does whatever the **** it wants with total disregard of morals and even laws. When some of the foul inner workings are made public they have a formula they use; first minimize the severity of the transgression, shift blame, implement a distraction, sweep the issue under the rug, ignore the backlash, hope people get lazy and forget as soon as possible. The issues just keep mounting for them so their damage control protocol is easily identified.They don't have to "hope" their customers are lazy and stupid. They know.

[YardRat]

This weekend's homework assignment is to track all penalties in the game, and note how many of them are replayed to show the viewing audience the infraction.

[DraftBoy]

This weekend's homework assignment is to track all penalties in the game, and note how many of them are replayed to show the viewing audience the infraction.

Are you doing this?