Bills vs Packers - what do you do?

[trapezeus]

QB change?

I'm not in the EJ will be great camp. I don't even know if that camp exists. But i will say, defenses had more issues with our QBs when the footage is limited. Kyle and EJ both got off to winning starts. Not impressive starts, but they won early. as the lame offense prodded forward, they were easier to figure out because the offense as a whole was easier to figure out.

is it worth changing simply to get that advantage. the bills need to win all 3 now and to me the difference between EJ and Orton is now negligible. Why not make the packers have to prep for something different.

the hidden advantage is that if this works, ej's confidence is bouyed. if it doesn't, orton is insulted and doesn't reup. the bills still have EJ as their back up and forced to look for a qb.

I don't think a QB change guarantees a win, but it aligns what the team's longer term goal.

so simply, would you change qbs for next week and does my explanation make any sense?

[Novacane]

I would change just to see if EJ has learned anything while on the bench. We're not winning 3 in a row so why not.

[Thurmal]

It really doesn't matter. We are playing another marquee franchise, so most of our decent plays will be negated by dubious penalties.

[Mahdi]

QB change?

I'm not in the EJ will be great camp. I don't even know if that camp exists. But i will say, defenses had more issues with our QBs when the footage is limited. Kyle and EJ both got off to winning starts. Not impressive starts, but they won early. as the lame offense prodded forward, they were easier to figure out because the offense as a whole was easier to figure out.

is it worth changing simply to get that advantage. the bills need to win all 3 now and to me the difference between EJ and Orton is now negligible. Why not make the packers have to prep for something different.

the hidden advantage is that if this works, ej's confidence is bouyed. if it doesn't, orton is insulted and doesn't reup. the bills still have EJ as their back up and forced to look for a qb.

I don't think a QB change guarantees a win, but it aligns what the team's longer term goal.

so simply, would you change qbs for next week and does my explanation make any sense?

The difference between EJ and Orton is huge.

Orton wasn't great yesterday but he moved the ball better than EJ could have I'm pretty certain. Orton has accuracy, not Peyton accuracy but way more accurate than EJ.

Watkins and Woods would have a meltdown if EJ came back.

[Mahdi]

I would change just to see if EJ has learned anything while on the bench. We're not winning 3 in a row so why not.

I like our chances of ripping off 3 wins actually.

I think we will beat GB and Oakland. If Pats have their seed wrapped up by final week we beat them too. And even if they don't I like the idea of Schwartz getting another crack at Brady.

[Novacane]

The difference between EJ and Orton is huge.

Orton wasn't great yesterday but he moved the ball better than EJ could have I'm pretty certain. Orton has accuracy, not Peyton accuracy but way more accurate than EJ.

Watkins and Woods would have a meltdown if EJ came back.



No it's not. They both suck!

[GreedoII]

Ride Orton. If the lose then put the kid in vs Oak and NE. Then fire all these ass clown coaches on Monday including that tool Brandon. This is his mess which nobody is mentioning in the media.

[yordad]

We can mathematically make the playoffs even with a loss to the Packers. We play Orton til we are out, then we play Manual just to see if he "grew" any. This may however piss off Orton to the point where he opts out of his contract and we are stuck with Manual next year growth or not. LOL

[Generalissimus Gibby]

We are probably not going 3-0 to close out the season. That being said, I think we can sneak past Green Bay and we are good enough to get by Oakland. Anyways, we are still alive for a playoff spot --albeit on life support -- and as such we should start our best players and that includes Kyle Orton.

[Novacane]

We can mathematically make the playoffs even with a loss to the Packers. We play Orton til we are out, then we play Manual just to see if he "grew" any. This may however piss off Orton to the point where he opts out of his contract and we are stuck with Manual next year growth or not. LOL


If he's that stupid then let him! No other team is bringing him in as their starter next year.

[better days]

The difference between EJ and Orton is huge.

Orton wasn't great yesterday but he moved the ball better than EJ could have I'm pretty certain. Orton has accuracy, not Peyton accuracy but way more accurate than EJ.

Watkins and Woods would have a meltdown if EJ came back.

NO, the difference between Orton & EJ is NEGLIGABLE.

And after playing with Orton a while, I think the WR's would welcome EJ back.

Orton did not throw to them at all until the Bills were down by 18 points.

Orton averaged just over 4 yds per attempt in the first half TERRIBLE playcalling by Hackett & TERRIBLE execution by Orton.

I really don't see how EJ can do worse than 3 points in a half of football which Orton has done twice in the span of a few weeks.

[imbondz]

no way you make a change back. Orton is our guy until the season ends. He's earned it. the .005% chance we have to make the playoffs goes to 0% with EJ

[Mahdi]

NO, the difference between Orton & EJ is NEGLIGABLE.

And after playing with Orton a while, I think the WR's would welcome EJ back.

Orton did not throw to them at all until the Bills were down by 18 points.

Orton averaged just over 4 yds per attempt in the first half TERRIBLE playcalling by Hackett & TERRIBLE execution by Orton.

I really don't see how EJ can do worse than 3 points in a half of football which Orton has done twice in the span of a few weeks.

Orton did well on third down yesterday, I liked his accuracy and he hit some nice downfield throws. The throws he was making to Watkins in particular are throws Manuel can't/won't make.

Orton is way ahead. 355 yards passing with 50 yards in team rushing. If we had a running game he would be doing way better. EJ had a running game when he was in.

[Kenny]

I dont think we put in EJ until after the GB game (or during if we get blown out). I still think Orton gives us the best chance to win right now.

If we lose against GB, then yes... put in EJ the rest of the way.

[imbondz]

right, once we're eliminated from playoffs completely, put whoever you want in.

[better days]

no way you make a change back. Orton is our guy until the season ends. He's earned it. the .005% chance we have to make the playoffs goes to 0% with EJ

How did Orton earn it?

[trapezeus]

thanks for the feed back. looks kinda evenly split. no one saying EJ is a god and needs a chance. but some see him simply as a manner to have one unpredictable thing about the offense since the coaches don't do anything imaginative.

and some people feel like kyle orton is better despite his struggles.

it's hard to see how this year is at all a building year for the bills. their defense was awesome. it can be tweaked a little with additions where FA subtractions occur, but the offensive help may not come. i get the sense marrone is absolutely married to hackett. in that case, i really think if the goal is simply to make the playoffs and stop the drought, fire marrone and let schwartz try. same defense and get an OC who can maybe utilize orton in a manner to be more successful.

if the goal is to right the organization, as sad as it will be to see this defense dismantled, you can brandon and let the consultants build up a real organization with better scouting, better FO options, and a FO that faces accountability like the rest of the team. it could add another 3 years to the futility, but at least the ceiling won't be "make the playoffs". it will be to win a superbowl

[TacklingDummy]

Start EJ the rest of the year. We need to know if he's the future or if we need to draft a QB with our 1st round pick.

[WagonCircler]

Start EJ the rest of the year. We need to know if he's the future or if we need to draft a QB with our 1st round pick.

We know.

He's not.

He sucks balls, and he needs to go away, along with Marrone, Whaley, Brandon and Hackett.

[Ed]

I'd rather just see what EJ can do at this point, but I know there's no chance of that. Orton hasn't been good since October. He's exactly what most of thought he was. An average qb that's just not good enough to take you anywhere. I'd give him this last start against GB, but if they lose this week I have no desire to see Orton take another snap for the Bills ever again. EJ should be given another chance next year and if he proves to be no better than so be it. We already know what we have in Orton though, and it's just not good enough.

[OpIv37]

Realistically we are not making the playoffs, but we are not mathematically eliminated and there is no point in tanking with no first round pick.

Play to win. Do not allow the young guys to believe that losing is acceptable under any circumstances.

And that means Orton.

[YardRat]

Ride Orton until the bitter end, when we get actually eliminated.

As far as nobody signing Orton this offseason if he doesn't stay, I disagree. There are probably a few teams out there with the mindset 'Yeah, but what could he do if he wasn't playing with a ****ty offensive line and coordinator?'

[The Jokeman]

Ride Orton until the bitter end, when we get actually eliminated.

As far as nobody signing Orton this offseason if he doesn't stay, I disagree. There are probably a few teams out there with the mindset 'Yeah, but what could he do if he wasn't playing with a ****ty offensive line and coordinator?'

I agree we ride Orton until we officially get eliminated and than the question is what does next year bring. I think the only reason came to Buffalo as he saw as a chance to start. I don't think he gets that chance anywhere else and/or if he's thrown into a QB competition here next year he may elect to "retire" again. The $5 million dollar question is do we keep Orton or sign another veteran for less money maybe around $1m (see Christian Ponder/Jake Locker/Blane Gabbert/Shaun Hill/Bobby Hoyer) to compete/mentor EJ and another young QB or roll the money on another year with Orton with more weapons. Based on Orton's teetering 0.500 record I look elsewhere. As the $4m in cap space could add us a starting OG or upgrade the TE position.

[Mr. Pink]

Doesn't matter who the QB is, you're not going out and beating the Pack by trying to keep pace and outscore them in a shootout.

Good clock management and ball control keeping Rodgers on the sideline for as much as possible is the key to winning.

[gebobs]

It really doesn't matter. We are playing another marquee franchise, so most of our decent plays will be negated by dubious penalties.

If the fix is on, why would you watch?

[imbondz]

How did Orton earn it?


Seriously? We were 7-5 before Sunday.


It's the first time in December we've had 7 wins since either 1999 or 2000. He's not our savior, but he's made this season fun. EJ was driving this season off the edge, not a chance we have 7 wins with EJ.

[The Jokeman]

Doesn't matter who the QB is, you're not going out and beating the Pack by trying to keep pace and outscore them in a shootout.

Good clock management and ball control keeping Rodgers on the sideline for as much as possible is the key to winning.

It almost beat Peyton, one has to wonder if we get that 4th down play do we score a TD instead of giving it away to Peyton who scored a TD? That said I think the game was lost on a few other plays namely the phantom pass interference and Orton INT in the redzone.

[Novacane]

Ride Orton until the bitter end, when we get actually eliminated.

As far as nobody signing Orton this offseason if he doesn't stay, I disagree. There are probably a few teams out there with the mindset 'Yeah, but what could he do if he wasn't playing with a ****ty offensive line and coordinator?'


I didn't say he wouldn't be signed. He won't be signed to start. If some team does more power to them. He will be benched by mid season just like Fitz was. If he stays for the 5.5 mill player option fine. I wouldn't give him anymore money or years.

[BillsImpossible]

WIN, and send Rogers off in an ambulance to ECMC.

[Novacane]

Pray for 75 mph winds. If neither team can throw we may have a chance.

[better days]

Seriously? We were 7-5 before Sunday.


It's the first time in December we've had 7 wins since either 1999 or 2000. He's not our savior, but he's made this season fun. EJ was driving this season off the edge, not a chance we have 7 wins with EJ.

Two of those wins belong to EJ & three of those losses belong to Orton.

The Bills fail to make the playoffs because of Orton, he has earned NOTHING.

[TacklingDummy]

Pray for 75 mph winds. If neither team can throw we may have a chance.
The Bills can't run the ball.
First safety wins?

[djjimkelly]

I'd rather just see what EJ can do at this point, but I know there's no chance of that. Orton hasn't been good since October. He's exactly what most of thought he was. An average qb that's just not good enough to take you anywhere. I'd give him this last start against GB, but if they lose this week I have no desire to see Orton take another snap for the Bills ever again. EJ should be given another chance next year and if he proves to be no better than so be it. We already know what we have in Orton though, and it's just not good enough.


this has been my thought process for several weeks,

i think half time vs packers should be ej time

i hope they bring in someone completely new for next year EJ should have been showing us what he has for the last 5 weeks

[djjimkelly]

Seriously? We were 7-5 before Sunday.


It's the first time in December we've had 7 wins since either 1999 or 2000. He's not our savior, but he's made this season fun. EJ was driving this season off the edge, not a chance we have 7 wins with EJ.


i think our defense made this year fun shame we didnt have this D with gaileys offense

[YardRat]

I still think we possibly could be just one player and a good oline coach away from being much more effective on offense.

[The Jokeman]

I still think we possibly could be just one player and a good oline coach away from being much more effective on offense.

Good O-line coach is a must but think we need two more quality players one at OG and one at TE. I can't emphasize enough how much Scott Chandler needs to become a depth guy. I'd target Jordan Cameron as a guy that might be available especially with him quoting that the Browns suck he might not be a favorite to return to Cleveland.

[SpikedLemonade]

Just play Orton for the rest of the season.

[Mr. Cynical]

The phrase rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic comes to mind.

[Historian]

Bills beat the Packers 31-21.

Refs will keep it close.

[imbondz]

The phrase rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic comes to mind.

lol.

[better days]

Orton did well on third down yesterday, I liked his accuracy and he hit some nice downfield throws. The throws he was making to Watkins in particular are throws Manuel can't/won't make.

Orton is way ahead. 355 yards passing with 50 yards in team rushing. If we had a running game he would be doing way better. EJ had a running game when he was in.

The Bills ran the ball well against the Broncos.

Over 4 yds per carry.

And Orton did not complete a pass to Watkins until the Bills were behind by 18 points.

As I said before, the numbers Orton put up in the Denver game are misleading because they all came after the Bills had no chance to win the game.

Orton is not better than EJ, just different.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

The Bills ran the ball well against the Broncos.

Over 4 yds per carry.

And Orton did not complete a pass to Watkins until the Bills were behind by 18 points.

As I said before, the numbers Orton put up in the Denver game are misleading because they all came after the Bills had no chance to win the game.

Orton is not better than EJ, just different.

agree on the garbage time statistics.
disagree that he isn't better.
agree that neither is the answer.

[Mahdi]

The Bills ran the ball well against the Broncos.

Over 4 yds per carry.

And Orton did not complete a pass to Watkins until the Bills were behind by 18 points.

As I said before, the numbers Orton put up in the Denver game are misleading because they all came after the Bills had no chance to win the game.

Orton is not better than EJ, just different.

That's just not true.

Orton is better and there is no debating that. Although I'm sure we will.

Orton has two things critical to a QB where he is significantly better than EJ.

1. Understanding of the game, coverages, reads

2. Accuracy

We would not be 7-6 with EJ.

[better days]

Just play Orton for the rest of the season.

WHY???

What purpose would that serve?

[SpikedLemonade]

WHY???

What purpose would that serve?

It allows us to make a decision on Orton which quite frankly is a bigger decision than our decision on EJ.

We have EJ for 2 more years regardless if he plays.

Orton may opt out if we do not start him next year.

Not that I want Orton to start next year, but we need to know what he is with these next 3 games.

If Orton does not play well these next 3 games, he ain't going anywhere unless we turf him.

[better days]

That's just not true.

Orton is better and there is no debating that. Although I'm sure we will.

Orton has two things critical to a QB where he is significantly better than EJ.

1. Understanding of the game, coverages, reads

2. Accuracy

We would not be 7-6 with EJ.

We could well be 10-3 if EJ were QB the entire season.

There is no way to know.

And 3 points in a half in TWO games says Orton is not more accurate or better than EJ.

[Mahdi]

We could well be 10-3 if EJ were QB the entire season.

There is no way to know.

And 3 points in a half in TWO games says Orton is not more accurate or better than EJ.

Lots of reasons why we didn't score more than 3 points in those halfs. Penalties, drops, lack of running game has defence playing coverage and causing Orton to hold the ball to long and take sacks.

Bottom line, the games we did win and even in some losses Orton threw passes EJ never even thought to throw.

[better days]

Lots of reasons why we didn't score more than 3 points in those halfs. Penalties, drops, lack of running game has defence playing coverage and causing Orton to hold the ball to long and take sacks.

Bottom line, the games we did win and even in some losses Orton threw passes EJ never even thought to throw.

Bottom line is Orton is no better than EJ.

I don't care about your excuses for Ortons lack of productivity. His lack of productivity is a FACT.

I will say Orton has some qualities EJ does not have.

But EJ has some qualities Orton does not have.

Like I said the difference between them is negligable.

Orton is different than EJ, NOT better.

[better days]

It allows us to make a decision on Orton which quite frankly is a bigger decision than our decision on EJ.

We have EJ for 2 more years regardless if he plays.

Orton may opt out if we do not start him next year.

Not that I want Orton to start next year, but we need to know what he is with these next 3 games.

If Orton does not play well these next 3 games, he ain't going anywhere unless we turf him.

Do you REALLY need to see anymore from Orton to know he SUCKS?

Lost to the Chiefs & Fins, costing the Bills the playoffs.

But the kicker for me was on third down & one yard against the Broncos, Orton slides short of the first down when he

could easily have picked it up if he had some balls.

I have seen all I need to see from Orton.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Start EJ the rest of the year. We need to know if he's the future or if we need to draft a QB with our 1st round pick.

The absolute earliest I want EJ behind center is in the third quarter if we are down by at least three posessions and its clearly Orton's fault. We have enough info on EJ to know that he does not merit a starting job. It is Orton's to lose. IF we lose to the Pack then its anyone's job. However, Orton should be the starter Sunday.

[better days]

The absolute earliest I want EJ behind center is in the third quarter if we are down by at least three posessions and its clearly Orton's fault. We have enough info on EJ to know that he does not merit a starting job. It is Orton's to lose. IF we lose to the Pack then its anyone's job. However, Orton should be the starter Sunday.

I think the Bills would have a better chance to win with EJ than Orton.

Rodgers will put points on the board.

Orton will not.

[TacklingDummy]

The Bills ran the ball well against the Broncos.

Over 4 yds per carry.

And Orton did not complete a pass to Watkins until the Bills were behind by 18 points.

As I said before, the numbers Orton put up in the Denver game are misleading because they all came after the Bills had no chance to win the game.


Orton is not better than EJ, just different.

1st drive of game
2nd and 13 at BUF 30 (12:26) (Shotgun) K.Orton pass short left to S.Watkins to BUF 43 for 13 yards (B.Roby). FUMBLES (B.Roby), RECOVERED by DEN-R.Moore at BUF 46. R.Moore to BUF 46 for no gain (S.Watkins).

Changed the whole outcome of game.

[better days]

1st drive of game
2nd and 13 at BUF 30 (12:26) (Shotgun) K.Orton pass short left to S.Watkins to BUF 43 for 13 yards (B.Roby). FUMBLES (B.Roby), RECOVERED by DEN-R.Moore at BUF 46. R.Moore to BUF 46 for no gain (S.Watkins).

Changed the whole outcome of game.

When the Bills were down by only 7 points & Orton slides short of the first down on third & one changed the whole outcome of the game.

[gebobs]

The Bills offense was shooting themselves in their two left feet all day long.

[TacklingDummy]

When the Bills were down by only 7 points & Orton slides short of the first down on third & one changed the whole outcome of the game.

Score was 0-0
Bills were marching down the field carving up the Broncos defense on their way to a potential Touchdown until Watkins coughed it up.

There were many big plays in the game.
That just happens to be one of the bigger plays.

Orton sucks.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

We could well be 10-3 if EJ were QB the entire season.

There is no way to know.

We might as well claim we would be 13-0 if Bryce Brown started all our games.

After all, there's no way to know.


And 3 points in a half in TWO games says Orton is not more accurate or better than EJ.

EJ put up 3 points in a half twice himself, yet Orton's started twice as many games.