What is in Brandon's contract?

[coastal]

There's more going on here.

First, we find out about Marrone having an "out". Then we find out that Pegs have to pay him $4 million for the year even though he can still go find work elsewhere.

theres strong rumors also going on related to Polian and a football czar position.

Now Polian backs out because there just may be "too much" burden.

all the while Russ Brandon who has presided over a 15 year playoff drought, sits quietly by with rumors circulating that he's safe?!

so... I think we all deserve to know what exactly happens if the Bills were to summarily decide to part ways with Russ.

the truth may indeed be benign, but it really feels like something ugly is in place.

[Mr. Pink]

Whatever his contract is is well worth it as long as he stays on the business side and away from the actual game of football side.

[coastal]

Whatever his contract is is well worth it as long as he stays on the business side and away from the actual game of football side.
Well worth it?

for ****s sake..... wHY?

[DraftBoy]

Well worth it?

for ****s sake..... wHY?

Because the team has been incredibly profitable and he's one of the best business ops executives in the league.

[coastal]

Because the team has been incredibly profitable and he's one of the best business ops executives in the league.says who?

[DraftBoy]

says who?

There were numbers that leaked during the financial review during the bidding process earlier this year. Bills brought home between $30-40 million in operational profits in 2013 and industry experts said that's easily up to $60 million with a new stadium in place. $60 million puts them in line with the rest of NFL teams which is pretty incredible for a small market team.

[coastal]

There were numbers that leaked during the financial review during the bidding process earlier this year. Bills brought home between $30-40 million in operational profits in 2013 and industry experts said that's easily up to $60 million with a new stadium in place. $60 million puts them in line with the rest of NFL teams which is pretty incredible for a small market team.
And you really credit him for that?

Like many have pointed out... the Bills aren't a hard sell. 15 years of dysfunction and they're still selling out. You honestly think that's because of Russ?

and what of this $4 million out clause he gave Marrone?

Quick question... do you know him?

[DraftBoy]

And you really credit him for that?

Like many have pointed out... the Bills aren't a hard sell. 15 years of dysfunction and they're still selling out. You honestly think that's because of Russ?

and what of this $4 million out clause he gave Marrone?

Quick question... do you know him?

He was the Team President, was he not?

The $4 million option, which I hate, was reported this morning as a response to the Browns wooing Marrone last year.

Yes, he's my neighbor down here in Atlanta. We chill in Boca every June and I have him as #3 on my speed dial. Or maybe its just that its very easy to poke holes in completely irrational arguments?

[coastal]

He was the Team President, was he not?yes he was team president and presided over a decade + long period of organizational dysfunction.

but... but... he made money so that proves he's a great business ops guy!

is that really your point? Really?


The $4 million option, which I hate, was reported this morning as a response to the Browns wooing Marrone last year.who reported that? Are you suggesting this was an addendum to his original employment contract? Wonder what Ralph's health was during that time.


Yes, he's my neighbor down here in Atlanta. We chill in Boca every June and I have him as #3 on my speed dial. Or maybe its just that its very easy to poke holes in completely irrational arguments?
There's nothing irrational about my argument at all.

[sudzy]

Because the team has been incredibly profitable and he's one of the best business ops executives in the league.

And that was all that was important to Ralph. I'm hoping Pegula cares more about winning.

[DraftBoy]

yes he was team president and presided over a decade + long period of organizational dysfunction.

but... but... he made money so that proves he's a great business ops guy!

is that really your point? Really?

Do you have a counter to make or are you just going to regurgitate the known facts for all of us?


who reported that? Are you suggesting this was an addendum to his original employment contract? Wonder what Ralph's health was during that time.

I got it from Deadspin who got it from other linked sources. So multiple outlets.


There's nothing irrational about my argument at all.

No, of course not.

- - - Updated - - -


And that was all that was important to Ralph. I'm hoping Pegula cares more about winning.

Why can't he care about both? His move to remove Brandon from all Football Ops is enough for me. Let the guy do what he's proven to be good at.

Winning and making money aren't mutually exclusive.

[coastal]

Do you have a counter to make or are you just going to regurgitate the known facts for all of us?15 years speaks for itself.

So so your point is because the Bills made money he's a great business ops guy. Got it.

your point sucks. Bad.



I got it from Deadspin who got it from other linked sources. So multiple outlets.so this was a contract addendum done when exactly then?

[DraftBoy]

15 years speaks for itself.

So so your point is because the Bills made money he's a great business ops guy. Got it.

your point sucks. Bad.

Yes for the last 15 years the Bills have been a very successful business. If you have a counter point, or hell any thing that even resembles a logical point, then present it. You don't though.


so this was a contract addendum done when exactly then?

Don't know, just a saw a snipit this morning.

[HHURRICANE]

Whatever his contract is is well worth it as long as he stays on the business side and away from the actual game of football side.

Wow dumbest post of the day....

[coastal]

Yes for the last 15 years the Bills have been a very successful business. If you have a counter point, or hell any thing that even resembles a logical point, then present it. You don't though. the money flows into this organization. It's called revenue. A very wise business man once told me, "revenue cures a lot of ills". Brandon didn't create that revenue. I don't give Brandon credit for that.

that seems to be the sticking point here.

So so to help get past that... let's see how he did on the football ops side of things (a much more complicated side of the business where someone's mgmt talents or lack thereof are readily identifiable.).

That at side of things is a complete and utter disaster.

the Marrone buyout is the final nail for me that bridges both sides of the operations.

to me... it's The smoking gun that outs Brandon for what he is... a weasel and a corporate thief.




Don't know, just a saw a snipit this morning.just read it. The clause was part of the original contract. The Cleveland excuse reads exactly like that... an excuse.

Brandon's excuse.

[YardRat]

C'mon coastal, even you have to admit 'Just because he made money it doesn't make him a good businessman' is a pretty lame argument.

Nobody is claiming Brandon is a great, or even good, football guy and that's where the team has sucked for 15 years. On the field, not in the books.

[coastal]

C'mon coastal, even you have to admit 'Just because he made money it doesn't make him a good businessman' is a pretty lame argument.

Nobody is claiming Brandon is a great, or even good, football guy and that's where the team has sucked for 15 years. On the field, not in the books.
Why is it a lame argument?

what did Russ do to drive revenue into the organization?

can u give me a breakdown?

[YardRat]

Moving training camp to St John Fischer and the Toronto series are two major ones that come immediately to mind. They weren't making money in Fredonia, and Toronto put $80mil plus into the organization.

[coastal]

Moving training camp to St John Fischer and the Toronto series are two major ones that come immediately to mind. They weren't making money in Fredonia, and Toronto put $80mil plus into the organization.fredonia wasn't making money so he moved training camp?

brilliant!

And

Toronto turned out to be a disaster that's been killed.

so he fleeced Toronto for a couple of years.

[YardRat]

fredonia wasn't making money so he moved training camp?

brilliant!

From a business, specifically revenue, standpoint it may not be completely brilliant but it was damn sharp.


And

Toronto turned out to be a disaster that's been killed.

so he fleeced Toronto for a couple of years.

Again, from a business and revenue standpoint it was just the opposite of a disaster.

Brandon sucks as a football guy, but that doesn't minimize his business acumen.

[coastal]

From a business, specifically revenue, standpoint it may not be completely brilliant but it was damn sharp.



Again, from a business and revenue standpoint it was just the opposite of a disaster.

Brandon sucks as a football guy, but that doesn't minimize his business acumen.no idea why some are willing suck his knob?

The guy isn't brilliant or a great ops guy.

he's been proven to be a shyster... and you guys are just oh so confortable having him in a leadership position.

There's a certain faction of Bills fans that deserve exactly what we have.

[DraftBoy]

the money flows into this organization. It's called revenue. A very wise business man once told me, "revenue cures a lot of ills". Brandon didn't create that revenue. I don't give Brandon credit for that.

that seems to be the sticking point here.

So so to help get past that... let's see how he did on the football ops side of things (a much more complicated side of the business where someone's mgmt talents or lack thereof are readily identifiable.).

That at side of things is a complete and utter disaster.

the Marrone buyout is the final nail for me that bridges both sides of the operations.

to me... it's The smoking gun that outs Brandon for what he is... a weasel and a corporate thief.



just read it. The clause was part of the original contract. The Cleveland excuse reads exactly like that... an excuse.

Brandon's excuse.

:rofl:

This is almost as amusing as your Fools Gold thread.

[coastal]

:rofl:

This is almost as amusing as you Fools Gold thread.
Dismiss reality all you want.

uou guys are supporting a man who took advantage of a failing old man.

[DraftBoy]

no idea why some are willing suck his knob?

The guy isn't brilliant or a great ops guy.

he's been proven to be a shyster... and you guys are just oh so confortable having him in a leadership position.

There's a certain faction of Bills fans that deserve exactly what we have.

Proven from a business perspective how?

[DraftBoy]

Dismiss reality all you want.

uou guys are supporting a man who took advantage of a failing old man.

There is something being dismissed here, but it isn't reality.

[coastal]

Proven from a business perspective how?
ok this ought to be fun... justify the out clause he gave his Syracuse buddy.

i dare ya.

[DraftBoy]

ok this ought to be fun... justify the out clause he gave his Syracuse buddy.

i dare ya.

So in other words you have nothing.

Got it, that's what we've all come to expect from you.

[coastal]

There is something being dismissed here, but it isn't reality.
what was Russ Brandon's job for the Bills?

[DraftBoy]

what was Russ Brandon's job for the Bills?

Which time? He's had multiple.

[coastal]

So in other words you have nothing.

Got it, that's what we've all come to expect from you.
Justify the clause...

- - - Updated - - -


Which time? He's had multiple.
He's been basically been responsible for driving the entire ship since when?

[DraftBoy]

Justify the clause...

Why would I do that? I've already said I don't like it or agree with it in this thread. I certainly agree with you that the clause was atrocious, but that doesn't change the fact that he's been a very good business man. Do you have anything else?


He's been basically been responsible for driving the entire ship since when?
I'm honestly not sure, like I said his role has changed multiple times especially in the last few years. If I had to put a date on it January 1, 2013 would be the day.

[coastal]

Why would I do that? I've already said I don't like it or agree with it in this thread. I certainly agree with you that the clause was atrocious, but that doesn't change the fact that he's been a very good business man. Do you have anything else?$4 million worth of atrocious to one person?

dont you think it says something about him as a person?



I'm honestly not sure, like I said his role has changed multiple times especially in the last few years. If I had to put a date on it January 1, 2013 would be the day.r u being honest here?

you don't think he's been the de facto owner for the past decade +?

[DraftBoy]

$4 million worth of atrocious to one person?

dont you think it says something about him as a person?

No, do you have anything else?


r u being honest here?

you don't think he's been the de facto owner for the past decade +?

No, because we know for a while Overdorf was very much involved in every negotiation. Also Guy was heavily involved. Then there was Donahoe who was Team President through 2005.

[coastal]

No, do you have anything else?you're a republican aren't you?




No, because we know for a while Overdorf was very much involved in every negotiation. Also Guy was heavily involved. Then there was Donahoe who was Team President through 2005.ridiculous.

[trapezeus]

Because the team has been incredibly profitable and he's one of the best business ops executives in the league.

Is there a team in the league bleeding money?

the bills as a winning team would be more profitable

there is no proof that brandon did anything other than shill some games to Toronto. He needs to go.

[Mr. Pink]

Wow dumbest post of the day....

The team has made money since Brandon has been here.

Business wise he's been outstanding, the game of football itself not so much.

He helped orchestra a deal to fleece Toronto out of money, he got the NFL to stop scheduling as many games late in the season because "Buffalo people don't want to go sit out in the cold to watch meaningless football games." People continue going to these games, buying merchandise, etc even though the team has sucked for a decade plus. Something is always sold as the next big thing to watch on this team, even if there really is nothing to be excited over.

What has Brandon done wrong on the business side since my post is so dumb?

[Mr. Pink]

ok this ought to be fun... justify the out clause he gave his Syracuse buddy.

i dare ya.

Who cares that Marrone had an out clause?

He could have just up and quit of his own volition.

Why does having an out clause matter one iota?

[chris66]

From a business, specifically revenue, standpoint it may not be completely brilliant but it was damn sharp.



Again, from a business and revenue standpoint it was just the opposite of a disaster.

Brandon sucks as a football guy, but that doesn't minimize his business acumen.Bills best draft was still the one where Brandon presided over. he missed big-time on maybin , but the rest of that draft was solid

[cookie G]

Who cares that Marrone had an out clause?

He could have just up and quit of his own volition.

Why does having an out clause matter one iota?

Because he gets paid another $4 million this year without coachign a day.
Because he gets paid another $4 million this year even if he has another job.

In other words, even if he is hired by the Jets tomorrow, the bills still owe him $4 million.

Even in the realm of executive compensation, that is a sweetheart deal.

[Mr. Pink]

Because he gets paid another $4 million this year without coachign a day.
Because he gets paid another $4 million this year even if he has another job.

In other words, even if he is hired by the Jets tomorrow, the bills still owe him $4 million.

Even in the realm of executive compensation, that is a sweetheart deal.

For a franchise that's worth 1.4B, 4m is pocket change.

Hell that's loose change under the couch cushion.

Most people seemingly wanted Marrone out anyway.

[coastal]

The whole thing is beyond sick and the biggest indicator (that's become public) as to why this organization has "functioned" the way it has.

how anyone could rationalize Russ still being here in any role is beyond me.

i can promise that Russ has a sweetheart out as well.

My biggest concern at this point is that Pegs doesn't want to pay it... he probably needs Brandon to leave on his own accord. The problem now is that Polian... someone strong enough to push him quietly out the door isn't going to materialize.

Russ Brandon is and has been the cancer of this organization.

[WagonCircler]

Because the team has been incredibly profitable and he's one of the best business ops executives in the league.

Here's a news flash for you: Terry Pegula makes more money off of one drilling site than the Bills will ever make operationally in 10 years. He's pretty well set financially.

The real value in an NFL team is its escalating resale value, which has absolutely nothing to do with Russ ******* Brandon.

None of these owners are in this game to get rich off of day to day operations. They're all super rich.

Terry wants to win. We want Terry to win. Russ runs contra to that equation.

[sudzy]

Dismiss reality all you want.

uou guys are supporting a man who took advantage of a failing old man.

He was the male version of Anna Nicole Smith.

[WagonCircler]

He was the male version of Anna Nicole Smith.

Perfect.

[DraftBoy]

Here's a news flash for you: Terry Pegula makes more money off of one drilling site than the Bills will ever make operationally in 10 years. He's pretty well set financially.

The real value in an NFL team is its escalating resale value, which has absolutely nothing to do with Russ ******* Brandon.

None of these owners are in this game to get rich off of day to day operations. They're all super rich.

Terry wants to win. We want Terry to win. Russ runs contra to that equation.

Well no **** Sherlock. Who would of thought drilling/fracking for natural gas would be a worthwhile endeavor?

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Well no **** Sherlock. Who would of thought drilling/fracking for natural gas would be a worthwhile endeavor?

i think the point he is trying to make that it does not take a 'genius marketing boy' like russ brandon to make the owners money when they are already incredibly successful at doing so. (seeing they are all billionaires and such) The amount of money they make in owning an nfl franchise (from day to day operations) is chump change compared to what they did/do beforehand.

owning a team is not paramount to 'making money' for these guys IMO. they do it for sport and because it's an exclusive club and they want to win. which is not ironic because that's what made most of these men billionaires to begin with. Billionaires typically do not like to lose at anything. i'm sure if you were to poll these guys (outside of maybe mike brown) and ask 'would you rather make an extra 10 million dollars and own a s****ty product or win multiple super bowls as an owner, most would prefer the super bowls. just my opinion

[DraftBoy]

i think the point he is trying to make that it does not take a 'genius marketing boy' like russ brandon to make the owners money when they are already incredibly successful at doing so. (seeing they are all billionaires and such) The amount of money they make in owning an nfl franchise (from day to day operations) is chump change compared to what they did/do beforehand.

owning a team is not paramount to 'making money' for these guys IMO. they do it for sport and because it's an exclusive club and they want to win. which is not ironic because that's what made most of these men billionaires to begin with. Billionaires typically do not like to lose at anything. i'm sure if you were to poll these guys (outside of maybe mike brown) and ask 'would you rather make an extra 10 million dollars and own a s****ty product or win multiple super bowls as an owner, most would prefer the super bowls. just my opinion

How much money an owner has and/or what percentage of their annual income is from team profit is irrelevant when discussing whether or not the team is a successful business.

Everything else is just pure conjecture about why somebody owns a team or doesn't. Let's not pretend to know what these 32 men are all thinking.

[coastal]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/01/polian-confirms-that-bills-were-working-behind-brandons-back/

conjecture... Lol!

[CoolBreeze]

The business aspect must show profitability regardless. Sure they want to win championships, but they don't want to lose money either.Russ Brandon is a genius when it comes to Marketing and Advertising. Not only selling tickets for a team that hasn't been successful in 15 yrs, as well as the corporate sponsors that seem to everywhere in the stadium, radio advertising and the internet, and still being very profitable is impressive. Unfortunately we are the suckers. We buy the jerseys and pay $9 for beer.Most important Brandon knows the key to selling. He sells the public Hope and Optimism whether it exists or not. He's no different than any CEO or used car salesman.
i think the point he is trying to make that it does not take a 'genius marketing boy' like russ brandon to make the owners money when they are already incredibly successful at doing so. (seeing they are all billionaires and such) The amount of money they make in owning an nfl franchise (from day to day operations) is chump change compared to what they did/do beforehand.

owning a team is not paramount to 'making money' for these guys IMO. they do it for sport and because it's an exclusive club and they want to win. which is not ironic because that's what made most of these men billionaires to begin with. Billionaires typically do not like to lose at anything. i'm sure if you were to poll these guys (outside of maybe mike brown) and ask 'would you rather make an extra 10 million dollars and own a s****ty product or win multiple super bowls as an owner, most would prefer the super bowls. just my opinion

[WagonCircler]

Well no **** Sherlock. Who would of thought drilling/fracking for natural gas would be a worthwhile endeavor?

As usual, you TOTALLY miss the point.

You're making a big deal of Brandon turning a profit. It's impossible not to turn a profit, and it's also chump change in the world of an NFL owner.

Brandon has done nothing to earn respect or the right to keep his job.

The pathetic part is that to you, the job he has done is acceptable.

[DraftBoy]

As usual, you TOTALLY miss the point.

You're making a big deal of Brandon turning a profit. It's impossible not to turn a profit, and it's also chump change in the world of an NFL owner.

Brandon has done nothing to earn respect or the right to keep his job.

The pathetic part is that to you, the job he has done is acceptable.

No, your point is just irrelevant. Have the Bills been a successful business? The answer is without question yes. Anybody denying that fact is simply being intentionally obtuse.

[coastal]

The derp is strong in this one.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

No, your point is just irrelevant. Have the Bills been a successful business? The answer is without question yes. Anybody denying that fact is simply being intentionally obtuse.

but DB, please tell me which NFL teams aren't successful businesses?

[DraftBoy]

but DB, please tell me which NFL teams aren't successful businesses?

Yes the Detroit Lions have lost money annually for years. The Bucs have also struggled previously to make money.

The most up to date team by team comp I could find was from 2012, it shows the Bills making 12.6 that year. Since we know Brandon took over as President and CEO on 1/1/13 and that in 2013 the Bills generated between $30-$40 million in profit that means he grew profits by roughly 200%. I'd call that pretty successful.

2012 Chart:
http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201308/only-one-nfl-team-lost-money-2012

[GvilleBills]

He was the male version of Anna Nicole Smith.


Holy **** dude, what a ****ing disturbing image!

[coastal]

The title of the article is "Only one team lost money in 2012".

u aren't very good at this r u?

[DraftBoy]

The title of the article is "Only one team lost money in 2012".

u aren't very good at this r u?

I know numbers and facts confuse you easily, if I had more time I'd draw you a picture with some crayons.

The point that was being made that NFL teams automatically generate profit regardless of who is in charge. That clearly is not the case.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Well good to know that being in the bottom 5 of a 32 team league of making a profit now makes you a 'marketing genius'

oh well

[WagonCircler]

I know numbers and facts confuse you easily, if I had more time I'd draw you a picture with some crayons.

The point that was being made that NFL teams automatically generate profit regardless of who is in charge. That clearly is not the case.

No, the point is that the season to season profit/loss is basically irrelevant. As I said, ready slowly "The real value is in the resale price of the team over the long term."

Ralph paid $30K for the Bills. Sold the team for $1.4 BIL.

And even if the year to tear profit did matter, so seem to totally exclude the possibility that someone else couldn't have made a ton more money for the team than Brandon. An exec who actually put a winner together instead of Russ' annual steaming pile of dog crap would have made money hand over fist for the franchise.

But you obviously lap the dog crap right up.

[DraftBoy]

Well good to know that being in the bottom 5 of a 32 team league of making a profit now makes you a 'marketing genius'

oh well

Are you just going to ignore a 200% growth in profits when handed the keys to the organization? Come on man. I'm not sitting here saying Brandon is the second coming of Christ or that he should have even an ear in any football ops meeting, but he's been good at the business end.

[WagonCircler]

Are you just going to ignore a 200% growth in profits when handed the keys to the organization? Come on man. I'm not sitting here saying Brandon is the second coming of Christ or that he should have even an ear in any football ops meeting, but he's been good at the business end.

Pathetic.

Are we counting the money made from ******** fans over by selling home games to other cities?

[DraftBoy]

No, the point is that the season to season profit/loss is basically irrelevant. As I said, ready slowly "The real value is in the resale price of the team over the long term."

Ralph paid $30K for the Bills. Sold the team for $1.4 BIL.

And even if the year to tear profit did matter, so seem to totally exclude the possibility that someone else couldn't have made a ton more money for the team than Brandon. An exec who actually put a winner together instead of Russ' annual steaming pile of dog crap would have made money hand over fist for the franchise.

But you obviously lap the dog crap right up.

Yea that point doesn't really resonate since we can't measure value increase on an annual basis outside of the Forbes estimates which valued the Bills under what the sold for anyways.

I don't exclude that, but you want to argue about a fantasy land where anybody could of done this. I showed you numbers where the Lions have lost money for years in terms of annual profits. This isn't just somebody showing up, flipping a friggin light switch and taking an 8 hour nap daily.

The winner thing is a huge fail, massive. That's why I've said he should have absolutely nothing to do with the football ops. However, on the business end, absolutely keep him around. No question.

- - - Updated - - -


Pathetic.

Are we counting the money made from ******** fans over by selling home games to other cities?

Who gives a **** how it was made? He grew profits and from a business perspective that's a good thing. This isn't charity, this is about making money.

[WagonCircler]

Yea that point doesn't really resonate since we can't measure value increase on an annual basis outside of the Forbes estimates which valued the Bills under what the sold for anyways.

I don't exclude that, but you want to argue about a fantasy land where anybody could of done this. I showed you numbers where the Lions have lost money for years in terms of annual profits. This isn't just somebody showing up, flipping a friggin light switch and taking an 8 hour nap daily.

The winner thing is a huge fail, massive. That's why I've said he should have absolutely nothing to do with the football ops. However, on the business end, absolutely keep him around. No question.

No, I'm not saying that anyone could do it. You for instance, would be totally incapable.

What I am saying is that there are plenty of people--FOOTBALL PEOPLE--who could and do.

You seem to be saying that winning means nothing. WTF????

Why argue about any of this, then? Why not just pay guys from Wegmans to trot out there in Bills uniforms? Why not just put the UB graduating class out there?

Again, the serious money is made in this league by holding onto a franchise and watching its value skyrocket.

Bills fans have supported this team through thick and thin. Very, very long stretches of thin. 15 years and counting, most of which has been presided over by Russ Brandon.

You seem to be saying that you're fine with that.

****ing bull****.

We deserve a winner. And there are FAR better people out there than Russ Brandon who can do what Russ does AND can put a winning product on the field.

[WagonCircler]

Who gives a **** how it was made? He grew profits and from a business perspective that's a good thing. This isn't charity, this is about making money.

Are you ****ing kidding me????????

Who cares?

How about every Bills fan except you?

We want a winner, and we want our home games to be home games.

Oh my GOD????? Are you ****ing kidding me?

you're actually just fine with Brandon selling our home games?

you're a complete idiot.

Why not just sell every home game to the highest bidder?

"Hey, San Antonio--want to buy some NFL games?" "You, LA. Yeah, you. Want to buy some NFL games? We don't give a good God Damn about our fans. We just want to turn a profit."

[coastal]

I know numbers and facts confuse you easily, if I had more time I'd draw you a picture with some crayons.

The point that was being made that NFL teams automatically generate profit regardless of who is in charge. That clearly is not the case.
31/32 teams made money.

97%.

ive got the 120 count crayon box.

save yours.

u clearly need them.

[DraftBoy]

No, I'm not saying that anyone could do it. You for instance, would be totally incapable.

What I am saying is that there are plenty of people--FOOTBALL PEOPLE--who could and do.

And we have a business person who does it successfully. We add a football person now to fix the other end. Thankfully we have an owner that seems committed to that. What's the issue exactly?


You seem to be saying that winning means nothing. WTF????

Where did I say that? Did I not say he totally failed from a football side?

[DraftBoy]

31/32 teams made money.

97%.

ive got the 120 count crayon box.

save yours.

u clearly need them.

Where did I say that wasn't the case?

The 120 is nice though. What's your favorite color?

[coastal]

Who cares if the business person is an unscrupulous ****!?

he made money!

worth it!

[coastal]

Where did I say that wasn't the case?

The 120 is nice though. What's your favorite color?
You argue like a woman.

and my favorite color is go **** yourself.

[DraftBoy]

Are you ****ing kidding me????????

Who cares?

How about every Bills fan except you?

We want a winner, and we want our home games to be home games.

Oh my GOD????? Are you ****ing kidding me?

you're actually just fine with Brandon selling our home games?

you're a complete idiot.

Why not just sell every home game to the highest bidder?

"Hey, San Antonio--want to buy some NFL games?" "You, LA. Yeah, you. Want to buy some NFL games? We don't give a good God Damn about our fans. We just want to turn a profit."

There are multiple Bills fans who have openly said that from a business perspective they are fine with the Toronto decision. That doesn't mean any one of them, including me, actually liked or supported it.

[WagonCircler]

And we have a business person who does it successfully. We add a football person now to fix the other end. Thankfully we have an owner that seems committed to that. What's the issue exactly?



Where did I say that? Did I not say he totally failed from a football side?

The problem is, no matter how many times we are assured that Russ will have nothing to do with football matters, he eventually gets rid of enough people that he suddenly has input into football matters again, usually hiring incompetent people to replace the incompetent people WHO HE HIRED in the first place.

It's a vicious cycle and I'm sick of it.

- - - Updated - - -


There are multiple Bills fans who have openly said that from a business perspective they are fine with the Toronto decision. That doesn't mean any one of them, including me, actually liked or supported it.

Bulsshhhiiiitttttt. A thousand times.

It was a TOTAL FAILURE.

A total BUSINESS failure.

[DraftBoy]

You argue like a woman.

and my favorite color is go **** yourself.

Meh, I've been called worse.

Mine is Color #66 Midnight Blue, originally named Prussian Blue. Seriously though no favorite color at all? That's just sad man.

[DraftBoy]

The problem is, no matter how many times we are assured that Russ will have nothing to do with football matters, he eventually gets rid of enough people that he suddenly has input into football matters again, usually hiring incompetent people to replace the incompetent people WHO HE HIRED in the first place.

It's a vicious cycle and I'm sick of it.

This all comes down to do you trust Terry Pegula. I do, and if he says Russ is out of the Football Ops then I believe he's out. Do you not?



Bulsshhhiiiitttttt. A thousand times.

It was a TOTAL FAILURE.

A total BUSINESS failure.

For Rogers it absolutely was, but for the Bills it was like printing free money.

[WagonCircler]

For Rogers it absolutely was, but for the Bills it was like printing free money.

Then why not keep it going?

Because it was a horrible idea.

By your logic, it would have been best just to sell to ****ing Bon Jovi.

[Mace]

I dislike Brandon's glad handing "hey guys look I'm wearing big boy pants" but 'hide when things get complicated" mug as much as anyone, but he doesn't matter anymore, he's already said he isn't involved in the football side anymore, just the business, so you're not going to be seeing his grinning piehole much anymore or even be reading his name a whole lot.

Football wise he was terrible.

Business wise, he was instrumental in the regional marketing strategy that kept the Bills viable. Under him they grew Southern Ontario attendance from 10 to 17% over the past 6 years, Rochester with the shift of training camp is up to 15% with stronger sponsorships and corporate support. That takes the strain of the Buffalo-by-itself area. They sure haven't remained strong financially via average ticket prices (Bills are something like 24th in the league) or from excellence on the field with a contender everyone is dying to see.

Forget about Toronto, it was an ill advised means to an end and it's done with.

Stop worrying about Brandon, he's back to the shadows where he does good work and his grimy fingers are out of everything he has no clue about, or they'd not have even looked into Polian.

As for Marrone's contract, everything I read is that Marrone is a control freak, took them 4 days of interviewing to get him, means they wanted him bad enough to give him his option and he played them well enough to get it.

Biggest problem now is Whaley. If Pegulas loved him that much they'd not be looking into Polians, and with Brandons incompetent football butt shoved aside there's a big hole of nothing that can't even make bad decisions much less good ones.

[DraftBoy]

Then why not keep it going?

Because it was a horrible idea.

By your logic, it would have been best just to sell to ****ing Bon Jovi.

It is my understanding that Rogers didn't really want it because it was a complete failure for them. Do you have some other information?

[WagonCircler]

It is my understanding that Rogers didn't really want it because it was a complete failure for them. Do you have some other information?

It was all over the place that Pegula didn't want it, because, like I said, he doesn't need the money, and because it was disgraceful and pathetic.

But I understand that you're just fine with disgraceful and pathetic.

You clearly enjoy it and are rooting for the Bills and your boy Russ to perpetuate it.

[DraftBoy]

It was all over the place that Pegula didn't want it, because, like I said, he doesn't need the money, and because it was disgraceful and pathetic.

But I understand that you're just fine with disgraceful and pathetic.

It was suspended in 2013 before Pegula was even around...

[WagonCircler]

It was suspended in 2013 before Pegula was even around...

It was officially ended about 4 weeks ago. By Pegula.

There's this thing called Google. Heard of it?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/bills/2014/12/03/buffalo-toronto-canada-series-cancelled/19835007/

Check out the date line.

December 3, 2014.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

[DraftBoy]

It was officially ended about 6 weeks ago. By Pegula.

Yea but who do you think originally called for it to be suspended due to having no interest in moving forward with it? You're skipping a pretty large part of the equation here.

[WagonCircler]

Yea but who do you think originally called for it to be suspended due to having no interest in moving forward with it? You're skipping a pretty large part of the equation here.

No, I'm not. If you think that the suspension had nothing to do with the pending sale of the team, then you're even less bright than I have assumed.

The final decision was made by Pegula.

Because it was disgraceful and pathetic.

If it had been ended by Rodgers, he needn't have waited for the new owner. He was the one paying.

[DraftBoy]

No, I'm not. If you think that the suspension had nothing to do with the pending sale of the team, then you're even less bright than I have assumed.

The final decision was made by Pegula.

Because it was disgraceful and pathetic.

If it had been ended by Rodgers, he needn't have waited for the new owner. He was the one paying.

Ralph Wilson was still alive when the suspension was announced. I don't think you're recalling the timeline right on this. Suspension was announced in early March, Wilson didn't pass until later that month.

[WagonCircler]

Ralph Wilson was still alive when the suspension was announced. I don't think you're recalling the timeline right on this. Suspension was announced in early March, Wilson didn't pass until later that month.

My GOD you're thick.

It was a suspension. Pending further evaluation. Not a cancellation. It wasn't cancelled until Pegula evaluated it, found it to be disgraceful and pathetic, and cancelled it. December 3, 2014. Ralph had left the building.

[DraftBoy]

My GOD you're thick.

It was a suspension. Pending further evaluation. Not a cancellation. It wasn't cancelled until Pegula evaluated it, found it to be disgraceful and pathetic, and cancelled it. December 3, 2014. Ralph had left the building.

Ok, this isn't going anywhere. Enjoy the second half of the Sugar Bowl if you're watching and thank you for the good discussion.

[WagonCircler]

Roll Tide.

[DraftBoy]

Roll Tide.

Agreed, though I'm enjoying watching this Jones kid throw the deep ball for the Buckeyes. Not sure he actually knows where it is going but he dropped the deep ball to Smith in the first quarter in the bucket.

[Sammy Avalon]

Russ Brandon is a tumor in the Bills Organisation. His bumbling buffoonery had us out of the playoffs for 15 years.

The sooner he goes the better. And selling tickets in a football crazy town is not that hard. It's like selling bottled water in the desert.