State study focuses on three Buffalo sites for Bills stadium

[YardRat]

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/state-study-focuses-on-three-buffalo-sites-for-bills-stadium-as-well-as-the-ralph-20150118

http://www.buffalonews.com/storyimage/BN/20150118/CITYANDREGION/150108965/AR/0/AR-150108965.jpg&maxW=602&maxH=602&AlignV=top&Q=80

The three best new sites for a Buffalo Bills stadium are all on the fringes of downtown Buffalo, according to a long-awaited report commissioned by New York State. The study also identifies a major renovation of Ralph Wilson Stadium in Orchard Park – or construction of a replacement next door – as viable possibilities without the potential for economic spin-off offered at the city sites.

A site east of First Niagara Center in the Cobblestone District and a site at the northeast corner of Exchange Street and Michigan Avenue made the shortlist, as did a location to the southeast of the South Park Avenue-Louisiana Street intersection along the Buffalo River in South Buffalo.
Because of natural lighting issues, though, only a domed stadium would likely meet NFL requirements at the Cobblestone site, whereas either a dome or an open-air stadium would work at the other two city sites, said a source who was involved in compiling the study.

[YardRat]

The study estimates the cost of the Cobblestone domed stadium to be $787.6 million.

A similar stadium at the Exchange Street site would cost $784.6 million, while a domed facility at South Park would cost $911.9 million, due in large part to the higher site development costs there. Building an open-air stadium at either Exchange Street or South Park would reduce those costs by $188.6 million.

Meanwhile, renovating Ralph Wilson Stadium to modern NFL standards would cost $554.9 million, thanks largely to the fact that much of the seating bowl would probably have to be replaced.

[YardRat]

I have to admit I was wrong, and surprised, that the state study didn't favor the current location in OP. Must be they are more willing to pony up public bucks than I would have guessed.

[Night Train]

A downtown location was always the priority, with the hockey arena and Pegula's Harbor Center close by. If you haven't been downtown in that area, please don't comment from a fake base of knowledge. Restaurants, breweries and bars popping up all over in that area. There is a reason for those 3 locations.

It could still be OP next to the current stadium but i'd be surprised. The only issue canceling out downtown could be parking but we'll see.

Downtown is automatic dome. OP is 50/50 but probably a dome. You can get far more use out of it.

[YardRat]

It seems development was a bigger factor than expense. Which makes sense.

[Skooby]

Time for a lot of new hotels downtown.

[YardRat]

I'm a big fan of what Cleveland did with Jacobs and Quicken, but the Cobblestone option looks too cramped for football. I'm liking Exchange Street or South Park.

[DynaPaul]

Does it really have to be a dome? I'm thinking, level the biggest ghetto in Buffalo and build it there. Kill two birds with one stone.

[better days]

I'm a big fan of what Cleveland did with Jacobs and Quicken, but the Cobblestone option looks too cramped for football. I'm liking Exchange Street or South Park.

Exchange Street looks like the smallest lot.

South Park looks like the winner to me.

[Night Train]

Does it really have to be a dome?

Go to Cleveland for a December game, then tell me how great an idea it was to build an open air stadium right on the water. That was the worst idea ever.

Dome.

[notacon]

Pouring any more money down the Orchard Park sink hole site would be criminal.

The only reason the stadium was built there in the first place was to "save money", which, in the end, cost the county more than they supposedly "saved" when they breached the contract with Mr. Cottrell.

If they go down that road of making decisions to "save money" it will be a monumentally devastating mistake and lost opportunity to further stabilize the financial future of the Bills in BUFFALO, and encourage a much needed re-invention of downtown Buffalo started by Mr. Pegula.

It's the difference between investing for the future of throwing money down a money pit of the past.

[stuckincincy]

I have to admit I was wrong, and surprised, that the state study didn't favor the current location in OP. Must be they are more willing to pony up public bucks than I would have guessed.

The opportunities for kickbacks, palm-greasing, campaign contributions, the connected insiders being able to buy up residential and small business property on the cheap and selling it high, and the like are enhanced by an urban siting. The Buffalo political machine would be rubbing their foreparts together like a fly contemplating fresh dog doo.

Side note: with an urban setting, you can likely kiss goodbye to tailgating as it exists now.

[WagonCircler]

I'm sticking by my assertion from over a year ago that it will be the South Park site. They flipped the parking and the stadium on me, but it's exactly where I've been told all along that it's going to be--Perry Street Projects.

I thought the Stadium would be on the footprint of the projects and the parking would be where Conway Park is, rather than the other way around, but it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

This site, according to the study, provides for the best surrounding area development. Why even do this (move it downtown), if not to spur development?

I just hope that ST. Terry of Pegulaville (and I call him this with reverence, not sarcasm) pushes for a retractable.

Indoor football is horrendous. It should be outlawed.

This was my mockup from last year:

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1044x832q90/841/f457.jpg

[stuckincincy]

I'm sticking by my assertion from over a year ago that it will be the South Park site. They flipped the parking and the stadium on me, but it's exactly where I've been told all along that it's going to be--Perry Street Projects.

I thought the Stadium would be on the footprint of the projects and the parking would be where Conway Park is, rather than the other way around, but it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

This site, according to the study, provides for the best surrounding area development. Why even do this (move it downtown), if not to spur development?

I just hope that ST. Terry of Pegulaville (and I call him this with reverence, not sarcasm) pushes for a retractable.

Indoor football is horrendous. It should be outlawed.

This was my mockup from last year:

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1044x832q90/841/f457.jpg

They will have to face dealing with putting up such a massive structure so close to the Buffalo waterfront. So much of the area has been filled in (and removed) through the centuries, and measures have to be found as to how to build with the underlying geology.

The current OP site has the geology issues resolved, has the access infrastructure settled, doesn't have to deal with new property acquisition ,likely doesn't have neighborhood objections and lawsuits to deal with. A South Park siting is appealing, but overcoming the hurdles will be costly.

Of course, if Pegula will foot the bill for his place of business...

[WagonCircler]

They will have to face dealing with putting up such a massive structure so close to the Buffalo waterfront. So much of the area has been filled in (and removed) through the centuries, and measures have to be found as to how to build with the underlying geology..

That's why I my original thought was that flipping the parking with the stadium would be a better fit. But this study may have taken that into consideration.

There will be issues with any location, but Downtown has the most upside for Pegula, and I think he will make it so.

[stuckincincy]

That's why I my original thought was that flipping the parking with the stadium would be a better fit. But this study may have taken that into consideration.

There will be issues with any location, but Downtown has the most upside for Pegula, and I think he will make it so.

You may well be right about Pegula. The huge amount of cash being printed and circulated in the past six years says the smart bet is to put that soft money into real property.

[BillsImpossible]

I've sat here for about 20 minutes staring at the 4 pictures above.

The next stadium for the Buffalo Bills is going to built in downtown Buffalo.

It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

Space really doesn't matter. If every other NFL team with a city stadium can do it, Buffalo can too.

Just go here for about 15 seconds: http://www.canalsidebuffalo.com/

Enjoy the tailgating as we know it today, because things are going to change - for the better.

Tailgating will still exist, no doubt, but it might be inside of Coca-Cola field, inside the Harbor Center, or on the outer edges of the Lake Erie.

I think the Pegula's have a big goal they are trying to achieve, and that is changing the entire landscape of Buffalo in to a 21st Century city that can compete with New York, Chicago, Dallas, and every other big city in America today.

They have a vision, but we have to be willing to help them build it by sacrificing the ability to drink 10 beers and take a piss 100 feet away by a tree.

It might take people an hour more to get home, but maybe that will prevent them from driving when they really shouldn't and get a hotel room instead?

People complain about $12 beers, but to be honest with you, those $12 beers prevent a lot of people from getting crocked and vomiting on your Bills jersey as they puke in the seat behind you.

If you've never experienced that, you're one of the lucky few Bills fans that hasn't.

"Changing the culture," involves changing the culture of fans too.

[BillsImpossible]

http://www.canalsidebuffalo.com/things-to-do/week/

Curling!

That's awesome!

Curling, not hurling.

[DetDannyWilliams]

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-region/state-study-focuses-on-three-buffalo-sites-for-bills-stadium-as-well-as-the-ralph-20150118

http://www.buffalonews.com/storyimage/BN/20150118/CITYANDREGION/150108965/AR/0/AR-150108965.jpg&maxW=602&maxH=602&AlignV=top&Q=80

The three best new sites for a Buffalo Bills stadium are all on the fringes of downtown Buffalo, according to a long-awaited report commissioned by New York State. The study also identifies a major renovation of Ralph Wilson Stadium in Orchard Park – or construction of a replacement next door – as viable possibilities without the potential for economic spin-off offered at the city sites.

A site east of First Niagara Center in the Cobblestone District and a site at the northeast corner of Exchange Street and Michigan Avenue made the shortlist, as did a location to the southeast of the South Park Avenue-Louisiana Street intersection along the Buffalo River in South Buffalo.
Because of natural lighting issues, though, only a domed stadium would likely meet NFL requirements at the Cobblestone site, whereas either a dome or an open-air stadium would work at the other two city sites, said a source who was involved in compiling the study.

in proposal #2 the Amtrak station (or what us railroaders call it "AMSHAK" since it's just a small brick station) is located on the other side of the proposed stadium site on Exchange St. for Bills fans that live in outside of City you could get on the train at Depew and take train #281 & train #283 Empire Service to Exchange St. station and for fans from Roch, Utica, Syracuse get on train #283 Empire Service and take it to Exchange St. and Bills fans that come to the game from Albany take train #64 The Maple Leaf to Exchange St. that want to come to the game you could just get on the train and get off at Exchange St. and you would be right at the front door of the stadium.

[stuckincincy]

I've sat here for about 20 minutes staring at the 4 pictures above.
The next stadium for the Buffalo Bills is going to built in downtown Buffalo.
It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
Space really doesn't matter. If every other NFL team with a city stadium can do it, Buffalo can too.
Just go here for about 15 seconds: http://www.canalsidebuffalo.com/
Enjoy the tailgating as we know it today, because things are going to change - for the better.
Tailgating will still exist, no doubt, but it might be inside of Coca-Cola field, inside the Harbor Center, or on the outer edges of the Lake Erie.
I think the Pegula's have a big goal they are trying to achieve, and that is changing the entire landscape of Buffalo in to a 21st Century city that can compete with New York, Chicago, Dallas, and every other big city in America today.
They have a vision, but we have to be willing to help them build it by sacrificing the ability to drink 10 beers and take a piss 100 feet away by a tree.
It might take people an hour more to get home, but maybe that will prevent them from driving when they really shouldn't and get a hotel room instead?
People complain about $12 beers, but to be honest with you, those $12 beers prevent a lot of people from getting crocked and vomiting on your Bills jersey as they puke in the seat behind you.
If you've never experienced that, you're one of the lucky few Bills fans that hasn't.
hanging the culture," involves changing the culture of fans too.

I appreciate your optimism. But there are unavoidable facts. The population of the region is aging, while in the city, there is growth in the young population thanks to politically-motivated subsidies. That bunch is not a driving force for future prosperity - quite the contrary. The region's working-age population is declining. The median income of the county is nothing to write home about. The tax burden is heavy and pervasive.

The NFL won't last forever. It is under current attack for player's "extra-curricular" actions, the concussion thing, the high cost of attending.

I am all for the construction of a privately-funded stadium. I am very much against public funding, save for costs associated with access and utilities service. Even then, for the fan, there will be PSL fees and certainly stiffer ticket prices for all.

There is no need for haste - the lease between the Bills and the county remains valid for several years.

[Ingtar33]

South Park Avenue-Louisiana Street

best location right there. though i'd like them to take that opportunity to knock down the skyway while they're at it. that area would be pretty good for a stadium... it's within blocks of where i would like to see one put, so it's pretty much ideal as far as i can tell.

[WagonCircler]

I am all for the construction of a privately-funded stadium. I am very much against public funding, save for costs associated with access and utilities service.

It doesn't matter what you're in favor of. For one thing, you don't even live here.

It will be a combination of public and private funds and limited PSLs. It's a done deal. The fix has been in. That's the way things work around here when there's this much money involved.

Do you see how closely my map from 12 months ago mirrors the South Park option in the OP?

That's not me guessing.

All of this is smoke and mirrors.

[notacon]

They will have to face dealing with putting up such a massive structure so close to the Buffalo waterfront. So much of the area has been filled in (and removed) through the centuries, and measures have to be found as to how to build with the underlying geology.

The current OP site has the geology issues resolved, has the access infrastructure settled, doesn't have to deal with new property acquisition ,likely doesn't have neighborhood objections and lawsuits to deal with. A South Park siting is appealing, but overcoming the hurdles will be costly.

Of course, if Pegula will foot the bill for his place of business...

The Orchard Park site has got to be the WORST site EVER conceived for a big league sports stadium.

Some cynical citizens will whine about the "expense" etc...

I say to them...go pound salt. If this city is going to have ANY chance of revival, and I believe it may be on the edge of such revival, then the nay sayers will have to be ignored.

We followed their suggestions in 1973. What it got the area was a lawsuit that means they paid for a nice domed stadium in a much better area without actually getting the structure.

It also got us probably the WORST stadium in the league, in the WORST possible location in the whole country, with the WORST access.

Listening to these people are what has caused the downfall in the city.

[notacon]

I appreciate your optimism. But there are unavoidable facts. The population of the region is aging, while in the city, there is growth in the young population thanks to politically-motivated subsidies. That bunch is not a driving force for future prosperity - quite the contrary. The region's working-age population is declining. The median income of the county is nothing to write home about. The tax burden is heavy and pervasive.

The NFL won't last forever. It is under current attack for player's "extra-curricular" actions, the concussion thing, the high cost of attending.

I am all for the construction of a privately-funded stadium. I am very much against public funding, save for costs associated with access and utilities service. Even then, for the fan, there will be PSL fees and certainly stiffer ticket prices for all.

There is no need for haste - the lease between the Bills and the county remains valid for several years.

YOU are the type of people that MUST be ignored.

The population of the whole country is "aging". The best way to keep young people in the area is to move forward and accomplish projects like these.

I have no idea what you are talking about "growth in the young population thanks to politically-motivated subsidies". There have been subsidies to move out of the city for decades. Please give details so we can discuss.

Again, even IF the "region's working-age population is declining" the decline will be accelerated if we don't revitalize the city, and having a stadium downtown is a HUGE part of that.

"The median income of the county is nothing to write home about". So what?? This is occurring all across the country.

"The tax burden is heavy and pervasive." So what? This is occurring all across New York state. Not building a stadium will not affect this one iota.

"The NFL won't last forever." So what? All indications is that it will last well beyond the useful life of a stadium. Oppose a new stadium and you will FORCE the NFL to not last very long in WNY.

"It is under current attack for player's "extra-curricular" actions, the concussion thing, the high cost of attending." So what? Not one single reason to not build a stadium.

"I am all for the construction of a privately-funded stadium. I am very much against public funding, save for costs associated with access and utilities service. Even then, for the fan, there will be PSL fees and certainly stiffer ticket prices for all." Ahhhhhh....now we come to the real reason. YOU are a cheapskate.

There are MANY, MANY things that I wish various governments would not have to pay for. I am very much in FAVOR of HEAVY public financing, especially from the state t finally build a REAL NFL stadium in Buffalo. The state money is going to be spent regardless, and it will go downstate if people like you are listened to. Again, it is this regressive mentality of not wanting the "public" to spend money that is THE cause for the downfall the Buffalo area.

I travel for a living. I have been in every single city the NFL has a team, save Green Bay. Buffalo has got the worst infrastructure, the worst use of natural resources (the misuse of the waterfront is criminal and is because of people with your attitude), the worst of so many quality of life issues.

The cities that are doing much better are the ones who have invested in these types of projects. They almost always pay off.

So what if fans have to pay more for tickets and PSL's??? That's the way is SHOULD be. Right now we have one of the lowest ticket prices. No one is forcing you, or anyone else, to buy tickets. The likelihood of higher ticket sales goes UP with a REAL stadium in Downtown. Orchard Park sucks.

We have anew owner, that just invested over $1 billion and promised to keep this team in Buffalo when there are strong financial incentives to move the team.

Either one wants the city and surrounding area to move forward, or one wants it to further deteriorate. I'm with the "lets go forward" crowd. You are in the "further deteriorate" crowd.

[notacon]

It doesn't matter what you're in favor of. For one thing, you don't even live here.


Oh...I didn't now that stuckin does not even live in the area.

In that case...he can just STFU!!

[Historian]

Yea, one thing that the transplants who left for greener pastures have to realize, is that current Buffalo is not the Buffalo you left.

Good things are happening here every day.