Whaley open to moving Koundjio to guard

[Mace]

It's not a crap of his business and up to the HC and OL coach, so he should just shut up and sit down whether he likes it or not.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2015/1/20/7862873/whaley-open-to-moving-kouandjio-to-guard

[Mr. Pink]

I'm up for moving that bum off the roster.

Can we just do that instead?

[HHURRICANE]

He sucks anywhere on the field.

[djjimkelly]

hes coming to training camp if a second staff dont like him cut him loose

but who knows marrone sucked and the o line was his baby maybe this kid can turn it around saint doug is gone

[BertSquirtgum]

It's not a crap of his business and up to the HC and OL coach, so he should just shut up and sit down whether he likes it or not.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2015/1/20/7862873/whaley-open-to-moving-kouandjio-to-guard

According to Pegula, it is his business right now. It's the head coaches team once OTA's start.

[Mace]

According to Pegula, it is his business right now. It's the head coaches team once OTA's start.

Sweet. I feel a lot better about the GM coaching position players for only a few months until the coaches generally manage them.

[jills]

Whaley used a 2nd rounder to get this bust, he's just trying to safe face.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Let's all overreact to a tweet with (of course) no context.

[tonyc37]

Whaley is becoming a problem.His job is oversee the scouting and drafting of the players.Once thats over he has no says to where they play.

[RedEyE]

No skin off my teeth. Try him at G.

[Night Train]

When the draft was happening, there were concerns one of his knees could have an ongoing issue. Don't know where that stands now.

Then at camp, it looked like he was stuck in cement and reacted late, when the ball was snapped. I instantly thought kicking him inside was the only choice, since his feet didn't look good enough to play tackle. Does have power and needs technique work/reps.

I don't think Whaley is saying anything earth shattering. It's probably common knowledge among many that Guard is where he's headed.

[swiper]

Marrone moved him to guard during the season.

[YardRat]

Poor wording on the tweeter's part...hopefully Whaley knows it's ultimately the coaches decision where to plug and play.

[coastal]

The kick him into guard meme.

my favorite.

[Novacane]

This is stupid.! LOL at people flipping out. He was probably asked a question and he answered. Does anyone actually believe Whaley is going to tell Ryan where guys are going to play?

[Pinkerton Security]

This isnt news.

[OpIv37]

I forgot we even had Kwijibo

[k-oneputt]

So he is a young player who entered the NFL a year early and was playing out of his natural NFL position ?
Sorta of like that Aaron Wiliams kid that many wanted out of here ?
Got it.

[OpIv37]

So he is a young player who entered the NFL a year early and was playing out of his natural NFL position ?
Sorta of like that Aaron Wiliams kid that many wanted out of here ?
Got it.

Funny that you picked A Williams as your example and not the literally dozens of bother draft picks from this franchise alone over the last decade or so....

when all else fails, there is always the old BZ mantra of using the exception to prove the rule....

[k-oneputt]

Point is he just turned 21 when he arrived at camp last year.
He is way to young and it is to early to give up on him already. At least give him another year to get healthy and see what he can do at the guard position under a new coaching staff.

[k-oneputt]

Eric Moulds, there's another "exception" to your rule.
Another similar situation.

[Bill Cody]

Point is he just turned 21 when he arrived at camp last year.
He is way to young and it is to early to give up on him already. At least give him another year to get healthy and see what he can do at the guard position under a new coaching staff.

If he wasn't a 2nd round pick he would have been cut already that's how bad he was. He'll need to show considerably more to stay on this year's roster.

[OpIv37]

Eric Moulds, there's another "exception" to your rule.
Another similar situation.
Wow, you found 2 and you had to go back 20 years for the 2nd one. Apparently you are confused as to the meaning of "exception."

[k-oneputt]

And what would the benefit had been to cut him this past year over keeping him and giving him a "redshirt" year ?
Especially being a 2nd rd. pick.
I must have missed our stellar o-line play this past season so I guess he has no chance at guard over our current all-pro's.
Damn some of you guys are really clueless.

[k-oneputt]

If he wasn't a 2nd round pick he would have been cut already that's how bad he was. He'll need to show considerably more to stay on this year's roster.

Thanks Bill. I believe I already stated that with the idea of giving him one more year.

I think the knee issue is his biggest problem.

[OpIv37]

And what would the benefit had been to cut him this past year over keeping him and giving him a "redshirt" year ?
Especially being a 2nd rd. pick.
I must have missed our stellar o-line play this past season so I guess he has no chance at guard over our current all-pro's.
Damn some of you guys are really clueless.

Really? Where did I say we should cut him?

You admit the OL played poorly, and he still wasn't good enough to make it onto the field, even when we had injuries. I'm simply pointing out that guy who come into the league and are as useless as he is rarely amount to anything. For every Aaron Williams, there are 10 Kelvin Sheppards.

[Dr. Who]

Really? Where did I say we should cut him?

You admit the OL played poorly, and he still wasn't good enough to make it onto the field, even when we had injuries. I'm simply pointing out that guy who come into the league and are as useless as he is rarely amount to anything. For every Aaron Williams, there are 10 Kelvin Sheppards.

So what, really? At this point, the investment has been made.
Crowing about how it was a bad pick in the second round isn't going to change anything.
Isn't it better to hope he turns into a nice player for the team you root for?

And yes, you're correct about the odds.

[k-oneputt]

I guess we will find out next season.
But if they had cut him he would have been picked up and placed on some other team's IR for the year, might as well be the Bills and see what he can do next season.

Put him at his natural NFL position and see what he can do. Nothing to lose.

[streetkings01]

All I know is Glenn , Pears, Woods and Urbik all regressed under Marrone. Maybe Saint Doug doesn't know a thing about the oline and we actually have a very good oline sitting right under our nose?

[OpIv37]

So what, really? At this point, the investment has been made.
Crowing about how it was a bad pick in the second round isn't going to change anything.
Isn't it better to hope he turns into a nice player for the team you root for?

And yes, you're correct about the odds.

Of course I hope he turns into a good player. But rooting for this team is about separating hopes from expectations. I hope he becomes good, but as a rational human being, I can't reasonably expect that to happen.

[Fixxxer]

I'm up for moving that bum off the roster.

Can we just do that instead?

zero sense to cut him now. Let him prove his worth in TC with a new system.

[djjimkelly]

i think every one including koujido or whatever his name is........ deserves a new slate. the old coaches didnt coach the o line well

sometimes new coach new system new results. ask a colts fan about jerry hughes first couple seasons

[The King]

He did play LT on the best college team in the country right?

[k-oneputt]

[QUOTE=The King;4052328]He did play LT on the best college team in the country right?[/QUOTE

Yep. Probably a guard or right tackle in the NFL.

Eric Fisher. There's another guy who had a rough first couple of years in the NFL and started to come around this season.

[Mr. Pink]

And what would the benefit had been to cut him this past year over keeping him and giving him a "redshirt" year ?
Especially being a 2nd rd. pick.
I must have missed our stellar o-line play this past season so I guess he has no chance at guard over our current all-pro's.
Damn some of you guys are really clueless.

If he wasn't a 2nd round pick he wouldn't have even made the roster last year, he was that bad.

Sometimes you just cut your losses and quit investing in a bad beat.

But not the Buffalo Bills, because maybe someday magically guys like Ashton Youboty will develop, right? Or John McCargo? Hmmm maybe Tim Anderson? No? Bucky Brooks will be a star!!!!!!! Damn that didn't happen either. I'll still hold out hope for Erik Flowers and Mike Williams.

[justasportsfan]

If he wasn't a 2nd round pick he wouldn't have even made the roster last year, he was that bad.

Sometimes you just cut your losses and quit investing in a bad beat.

But not the Buffalo Bills, because maybe someday magically guys like Ashton Youboty will develop, right? Or John McCargo? Hmmm maybe Tim Anderson? No? Bucky Brooks will be a star!!!!!!! Damn that didn't happen either. I'll still hold out hope for Erik Flowers and Mike Williams.

I would agree but now I have my doubts because of Marrone.

Lets let someone else teach and evaluate our OL players because it seems to me everyone all of a sudden regressed under Marrone.

[Buffalogic]

Dumb. Every team has prospects that don't pan out. It's too early to quit on this player despite your know it all attitude about someone you maybe saw play twice this year.

[DraftBoy]

I'm so confused by the cut him now crowd. Why? At this moment there isn't a better alternative and him switching position isn't going to prevent us from adding somebody (either through FA or the draft) because of how bad he was last year.

[WagonCircler]

It's none of Whaley's ****ing business where anybody plays.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Liked the concept of getting talent on both side of the trenches. Not sure of the players they got.

Whaley knows defensive players. I'm still not sure his eyes for offensive players. I put the current era dating back to Nix where no wholesale changes occurred in the front office (which is a good thing in my books - come continuity), I don't know you can say they drafted any impact offensive player other than Watkins. Deep down, I believe they are not as sure as drafting offensive players like defensive players, probably why they jumped on Watkins as he's as sure fire pick as it can be.

[Novacane]

If he wasn't a 2nd round pick he wouldn't have even made the roster last year, he was that bad.

Sometimes you just cut your losses and quit investing in a bad beat.

But not the Buffalo Bills, because maybe someday magically guys like Ashton Youboty will develop, right? Or John McCargo? Hmmm maybe Tim Anderson? No? Bucky Brooks will be a star!!!!!!! Damn that didn't happen either. I'll still hold out hope for Erik Flowers and Mike Williams.


This is true but it's not a Bills thing. There's not a team in the league that would of cut their 2nd rounder the year they drafted him. Draft picks get more time to prove themselves. That's just how it is.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm so confused by the cut him now crowd. Why? At this moment there isn't a better alternative and him switching position isn't going to prevent us from adding somebody (either through FA or the draft) because of how bad he was last year.

He shouldn't have even made the team last year, it was a waste of a roster spot.

Someone like Cody White or Mike Gibson last year, who would probably cost league minimum, would be better.

Anyone who has actually played at the NFL level and doesn't look like they have cement in their shoes and have bad knees on top of it would be a better alternative.

[DraftBoy]

He shouldn't have even made the team last year, it was a waste of a roster spot.

Someone like Cody White or Mike Gibson last year, who would probably cost league minimum, would be better.

Anyone who has actually played at the NFL level and doesn't look like they have cement in their shoes and have bad knees on top of it would be a better alternative.

Well if we're cutting everybody who we deem to be not worthy of a roster spot, we're going to have a team about 35 left.

[YardRat]

Funny that you picked A Williams as your example and not the literally dozens of bother draft picks from this franchise alone over the last decade or so....

when all else fails, there is always the old BZ mantra of using the exception to prove the rule....

Probably because the point, which you obviously missed badly, was regarding a drafted player that switched positions. How many of those 'literally dozens' of draft picks fit those circumstances?

[OpIv37]

Probably because the point, which you obviously missed badly, was regarding a drafted player that switched positions. How many of those 'literally dozens' of draft picks fit those circumstances?

Off hand I don't know but under Gailey there was one draft alone where 3 guys changed positions.

Also, IIRC Williams played S in college and struggled to play CB. He became good when he was moved back to S. Kwijibo played T in college and is moving to G. By all indications, G is easier than T, but unlike Williams, he is being moved AWAY from his college position rather than returning to it.

[OpIv37]

I'm so confused by the cut him now crowd. Why? At this moment there isn't a better alternative and him switching position isn't going to prevent us from adding somebody (either through FA or the draft) because of how bad he was last year.

cutting him now is pointless. The miniscule chance that he amounts to something is still better than the absolutely nothing we gain by cutting him.

[YardRat]

Off hand I don't know but under Gailey there was one draft alone where 3 guys changed positions.

Also, IIRC Williams played S in college and struggled to play CB. He became good when he was moved back to S. Kwijibo played T in college and is moving to G. By all indications, G is easier than T, but unlike Williams, he is being moved AWAY from his college position rather than returning to it.

Everything I can find indicates Williams played CB at Texas, but the buzz was he might be better suited for safety at the next level.

[OpIv37]

Everything I can find indicates Williams played CB at Texas, but the buzz was he might be better suited for safety at the next level.

Ok, maybe I didn't remember correctly. Link?

[YardRat]

Ok, maybe I didn't remember correctly. Link?

Just Google 'Aaron Williams draft scouting report', a few should come up.

BTW...not doubting it, just because I'm a little lazy to look it up right now, who were the three players under one of Gailey's drafts that switched positions?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Aaron Williams was a CB. The Steelers were actually high on him. But all the scouting indicated he's better fit as a safety in pro, which became true.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Speaking of safeties, I'm surprised no movement is reported on Searcy yet. He's such a perfect fit for Rex's defense. Stout on run support; improved a great deal on pass defense the last two years. And he should not cost that much. Maybe they were too busy on the coaching change and staff etc.

[BuffaloRedleg]

I'm up for moving that bum off the roster.

Can we just do that instead?

Nobody ever gets better, especially not rookies. It is impossible.

I feel like this website is an alternate universe sometimes.

[swiper]

Ok, maybe I didn't remember correctly. Link?


Aaron Williams was a cornerback in college.

[swiper]

Nobody ever gets better, especially not rookies. It is impossible.

I feel like this website is an alternate universe sometimes.

They just don't get better fast enough for many fans. This is the era of instant gratification. Ask pmoon6. He lectures on it often.

[OpIv37]

Just Google 'Aaron Williams draft scouting report', a few should come up.

BTW...not doubting it, just because I'm a little lazy to look it up right now, who were the three players under one of Gailey's drafts that switched positions?

I tried to find where I posted about it but I couldn't find my posts. I tried looking at the old drafts but I couldn't remember.

[OpIv37]

They just don't get better fast enough for many fans. This is the era of instant gratification. Ask pmoon6. He lectures on it often.

First, we are talking about a guy who has been pathetic so far.

Second, every year we have to hear about how the team is going to get better through "player improvement" and every year it fails to materialize. That's not to say that no individual players have ever improved- certainly they have- but never on a scale to make the team as a whole better.

Third, this isn't the age of instant gratification. It's the age of free agency and the salary cap. The team is only guaranteed to have the player for 5 years. Even if he improves, the team already lost one of those years (and we really needed OL help in that year too). Fair or not, teams will only be successful if they can have high round draft picks step in and contribute right away.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Cut a guy in January? What? The first cut down day isn't for, what, 6 months?

[Ed]

If you're hoping for Kouandjio to get cut after his rookie year, don't hold your breath. He has a $1 mil cap hit for 2015, which increases to $2 mil if he's cut this year. That means the Bills would lose $1 mil of cap space this year to cut him. You're just going to have to get over your disdain of a 21 year old getting more than one year to grow and develop.

[OpIv37]

If you're hoping for Kouandjio to get cut after his rookie year, don't hold your breath. He has a $1 mil cap hit for 2015, which increases to $2 mil if he's cut this year. That means the Bills would lose $1 mil of cap space this year to cut him. You're just going to have to get over your disdain of a 21 year old getting more than one year to grow and develop.

Clearly cutting him is stupid, but changing the guy's position in an attempt to save face on a botched draft pick isn't much better.

And the disdain is for the FO using a high draft pick and a roster spot on a guy who didn't contribute. Maybe some teams have the talent to get by while waiting for draft picks who are projects to develop, but the Bills aren't one of them. We need immediate talent infusion from high draft picks if we are going to compete.

[Ed]

Clearly cutting him is stupid, but changing the guy's position in an attempt to save face on a botched draft pick isn't much better.

And the disdain is for the FO using a high draft pick and a roster spot on a guy who didn't contribute. Maybe some teams have the talent to get by while waiting for draft picks who are projects to develop, but the Bills aren't one of them. We need immediate talent infusion from high draft picks if we are going to compete.

A lot of OT's start out at OG for their first year or two, even ones that go in the first round. Moving a guy inside isn't some desperate attempt to save face. It's an opportunity for Kouandjio to contribute and improve the OL since Henderson ended up winning the RT job. So our 7th rounder ended up being the guy that stepped right in from day 1 and our 2nd rounder ended up being more of a project instead of the other way round.

[Night Train]

The irony is his brother at Alabama (who is actually older ) is a Guard coming out this year and projected as a 2nd-3rd rounder.

I'd laugh if the Bills picked him, just to read of the usual drama queens here lose their minds.

[OpIv37]

A lot of OT's start out at OG for their first year or two, even ones that go in the first round. Moving a guy inside isn't some desperate attempt to save face. It's an opportunity for Kouandjio to contribute and improve the OL since Henderson ended up winning the RT job. So our 7th rounder ended up being the guy that stepped right in from day 1 and our 2nd rounder ended up being more of a project instead of the other way round.

Why does it have to be one or the other?

7th rounders should be projects and it was nice to get one in Henderson who could step in right away. But second rounders should not be projects and finding Henderson doesn't get the FO off the hook for picking a project that early.

[Ed]

Why does it have to be one or the other?

7th rounders should be projects and it was nice to get one in Henderson who could step in right away. But second rounders should not be projects and finding Henderson doesn't get the FO off the hook for picking a project that early.
Second rounders and first rounders shouldn't be busts or projects, but a lot of them are. That's just the way it is. I can guarantee you that Kouandjio is not going to be the last second rounder the Bills take that ends up looking like a mistake after their rookie year, no matter who the GM is. If the intent is to try and fill an immediate need in the 2nd round, but you miss and end up filling that same need in the 7th then it can get you off the hook because the result is the same. It doesn't have to be one or the other, but no team is going to walk away from a draft with 7 starters.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I don't really care where guys are picked, just the number of guys who becomes NFL starters from the draft. By that standard, in Whaley's first year, he spent 2014 picks in round 1-5, two 7ths, and the 1st round pick 2015, the 4th round pick 2015 - a total of 9 picks to get 7 players.

Out of the 7 players, 3 becomes full time starters (Watkins, Brown, Henderson) for a rate of 3/9, 333 extra base hit average with two triples (Watkins, Brown) and a Double (Henderson), which is pretty good.

Richardson and Johnson on average are contributors for a rate of 2/9, 222 single hit average.

Cockrell could not get on the field mainly due to the secondary had a relative healthy year, then again he could not displace anyone, so an out rate of 1/9.

Kouandjio is a complete strikeout thus far.

I'm going to say he's doing OK, above average based on one year result. Of course you hope to see home runs on Watkins since Whaley gave automatic outs in the forms of 2015 1st and 4th. We'll see how it grades out next season.

[Ed]

I don't really care where guys are picked, just the number of guys who becomes NFL starters from the draft. By that standard, in Whaley's first year, he spent 2014 picks in round 1-5, two 7ths, and the 1st round pick 2015, the 4th round pick 2015 - a total of 9 picks to get 7 players.

Out of the 7 players, 3 becomes full time starters (Watkins, Brown, Henderson) for a rate of 3/9, 333 extra base hit average with two triples (Watkins, Brown) and a Double (Henderson), which is pretty good.

Richardson and Johnson on average are contributors for a rate of 2/9, 222 single hit average.

Cockrell could not get on the field mainly due to the secondary had a relative healthy year, then again he could not displace anyone, so an out rate of 1/9.

Kouandjio is a complete strikeout thus far.

I'm going to say he's doing OK, above average based on one year result. Of course you hope to see home runs on Watkins since Whaley gave automatic outs in the forms of 2015 1st and 4th. We'll see how it grades out next season.
He actually only used 8 picks to get 7 players plus a 5th round pick in 2015.

People forget that he traded the Bills 2nd round pick for the Rams 2nd and 5th. So technically he got Kouandjio and Richardson with one pick. He also traded a 5th to the Bucs for a 7th and a future 5th.

[Mace]

It's none of Whaley's ****ing business where anybody plays.

I'm going to go back to my original point with this one.

Morris/Marrone did not look good to me in terms of using OL talent. Pears would have been as useful at RT as RG, Urbik belonged at RG, LG was the problem we always had, but they could have rotated players in and out for exp. Some of the all-22 or whatever footages showed them pulling behemoth linemen across the field improbably, where the players where too late or too slow to function as designed. They didn't adapt fast enough, or show flexibility.

Coaches are gone now, have new ones. Talented prospects are still talented prospects. Average to mediocre vets are still average to mediocre vets.

And it's not up to the GM to say who is going to play where unless he's pushing a vested interest, it's up to the coaches to decide through the process of scheme and camp and games.

A savvy GM expresses confidence in the talent and prospects, and in the coaching staff to use them, and optimism in the results. He doesn't need to be "open" to opinions that are necessarily formed outside of his umbrella of decision by the staff.

Great that Whaley is open to it, but I can't understand why he had to say so, because it shouldn't matter.