Hue Jackson thought he was going to be the next Bills coach

[swiper]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000272075384/55bd46c316064e567b9eeda00d27bd23_normal.jpegLance McAlister @LanceMcAlister (https://twitter.com/LanceMcAlister)
Follow (https://twitter.com/LanceMcAlister)
JT also said he and Hue (client) went to bed last Friday thinking he was going to be the Bills next coach. #Bengals (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bengals?src=hash)

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/01/hue_jackson_reportedly_felt_he_was_going_to_get_buffalo_bills_head_coaching_job.html

[Night Train]

He probably was impressive but someone has to finish 2nd.

That's still an agent driven thought for the benefit of his client.

[Goobylal]

I liked hearing (from Kim Pegula) that Ryan wasn't even on the Bills' short list until he interviewed. As for Jackson, I'm glad it didn't happen.

[Topas]

I liked hearing (from Kim Pegula) that Ryan wasn't even on the Bills' short list until he interviewed. As for Jackson, I'm glad it didn't happen.

Actually, I like Jackson. I think he got a bad deal in Oakland and still improved his team. And Jackson with Schwartz as D coordinator would not have been that bad, IMO.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

yea, i actually really liked the Jackson idea even better than sexy rexy. For me, it was Jackson number 1 followed by Rexy. I'm just happy it wasn't some unknown commodity.

[CleveSteve]

Actually, I like Jackson. I think he got a bad deal in Oakland and still improved his team. And Jackson with Schwartz as D coordinator would not have been that bad, IMO.

Like when he traded a first and second round pick to Cincinnati for a QB they were going to have to cut? Then after he got fired that year, he got a job with the Bengals? He did some good things, but he is a shady character.

[better days]

Actually, I like Jackson. I think he got a bad deal in Oakland and still improved his team. And Jackson with Schwartz as D coordinator would not have been that bad, IMO.

Rex & Roman > Jackson & Schwartz

[Mr. Miyagi]

I went to bed last night wishing that I would wake up to find myself 10 inches taller.

Maybe he forgot to make that wish upon a star.

[DynaPaul]

I think Rex just blew their socks off with his swagger and defensive knowledge. Hue would have been a good choice as well. He will get his shot soon.

[jamze132]

Well I'm sure he had a mutually great interview with the Bills and I'm sure he was on a short list for second interviews, unfortunately when OBD thought they actually had a chance to get Rex, they jumped. I'm satisifed.

[justasportsfan]

I would have liked Hue I think. Players play hard for him as well.

[Goobylal]

Rex & Roman > Jackson & Schwartz
Yep. I think Ryan can make the defense better, while Roman can only be a major step-up from Marrone/Hackett. And I think Schwartz would have had a major problem with Jackson, a former HC with just 1 year on the job, getting the nod over him. Meaning having to look for a new DC anyway.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Like when he traded a first and second round pick to Cincinnati for a QB they were going to have to cut? Then after he got fired that year, he got a job with the Bengals? He did some good things, but he is a shady character.

Since when to head coaches make player trades?

[CleveSteve]

Jackson was in control of roster moves after Al Davis died.

[Dr. Who]

Rex & Roman > Jackson & Schwartz

Jackson & Schwartz was my first choice.
I'm good with Rex & Roman and hope your assessment is correct.

[justasportsfan]

Rex & Roman > Jackson & Schwartz

Maybe, maybe not.

If we hired Jackson however, there still wouldn't have been any guarantees that Schwartz would have stayed so I'm okay with Rexy & Roman.

[DraftBoy]

Like when he traded a first and second round pick to Cincinnati for a QB they were going to have to cut? Then after he got fired that year, he got a job with the Bengals? He did some good things, but he is a shady character.

Hue Jackson wasn't the GM...

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Hue Jackson wasn't the GM...

i don't think the team had one at that time. If i recall correctly, Hue Jackson had a pretty substantial role in roster selection, etc

[Ed]

We know that Pegula preferred a HC with some previous experience and it was reported that Jackson's interview went extremely well, so it would make sense that he was their guy initially. They may have even had some preliminary negotiation talks or a second interview scheduled, assuming that Rex was headed to Atlanta like most people thought, including Rex himself. The Bills probably weren't expecting Rex Ryan to reach out to them the following day (Saturday), but Atlanta and San Fran dragged their feet and Rex said ******* it. That obviously changed the Bills plans and is probably why Kim Pegula said that Rex Ryan leap-frogged their #1 choice, because they were already prepared to make Hue Jackson the next coach.

I think Hue Jackson would have been a good/interesting hire and I would have liked it, but I'm glad we got Rex. Either way, all of this makes me feel better about the Pegulas as far as hiring goes.

[Mace]

I liked hearing (from Kim Pegula) that Ryan wasn't even on the Bills' short list until he interviewed. As for Jackson, I'm glad it didn't happen.

On the other hand, I didn't like hearing that at all. Makes me think they swooned over his personality not his plan or vision, which so far appears to me to be recreating his NY Jets situation.

[Jry44]

Actually, I like Jackson. I think he got a bad deal in Oakland and still improved his team. And Jackson with Schwartz as D coordinator would not have been that bad, IMO.

I love Schwartz as a DC, and think he did an amazing job. And I agree that Jackson with JS would have been a solid duo. However, I feel like we only had Schwartz for another year tops before he got offered another head coaching gig. As a result this team would have been searching for yet another DC. At least with Rex Ryan, the brain trust of our defensive philosophy will be around for the long term, and will help with keeping the continuity on that side of the ball.

[Goobylal]

On the other hand, I didn't like hearing that at all. Makes me think they swooned over his personality not his plan or vision, which so far appears to me to be recreating his NY Jets situation.
Not sure how you get they swooned only over his personality and not his plan or vision. As for recreating the Jets situation, defense will obviously be emphasized and STs should remain the same, but he realizes the team needs to find a QB, and in the meantime will feature a strong running game. Sounds like a smart plan to me.

[Mace]

Not sure how you get they swooned only over his personality and not his plan or vision. As for recreating the Jets situation, defense will obviously be emphasized and STs should remain the same, but he realizes the team needs to find a QB, and in the meantime will feature a strong running game. Sounds like a smart plan to me.

Well....here's my thought, I'm not claiming to be an expert, though I'm not claiming to know less than some of them sometimes, because it happens being a devout fan and watching a situation evolving over decades, any one of us accumulates knowledge from afar not being intimately entangled in it. Again, I like Rex Ryan, he's RexFest, just not sure I see him working out here, so I have no bias against Ryan. But this is how I formed my opinion.

-Emphasizing the defense really is obvious. So obvious, any candidate would have said so.
-ST's are fine, obvious, any candidate would have said so.
-The team needs a QB, obvious, any candidate would have said so.
-Lacking a QB, need emphasize the running game, obvious, any candidate would have said so.

All of those things seem to be his plan, obvious, they would have had to have been for any candidates.
-What sets Ryan apart ? Personality, charisma, leadership.

Typically, they ask what about your staff ?
-Greg Roman. If you're going to go heavy running game, no one better I can think of.
-Kromer. Well I don't know about this, after Chicago, credibility will be an issue. Of course, I don't know Kromer. Under the umbrella of respected Roman and Rexfest, maybe not an issue.
-Bringing in all the Jets assistants. Defense makes perfect sense, ok. Offense....um. The guy that worked with Geno Smith that we fired before. "Trust me on this one". Ok Rex, ..."and all the rest of them". Umm..."Trust me on this ones." ....Ok Rex.

I'm not sure Roman and Kromer were real unavailable to others, or what set other defensive minded coaches apart of course.

What makes RexFest stand out ? Personality, charisma, leadership, no doubt. Good defense, absoulutely. Dazzling plan, well I don't see it.

I don't really need see it of course, and it doesn't mean this wasn't a hole in one hire because of what I didn't see.

But it makes me think they swooned over his personality for the above reasons, and it appears to me for the above reasons RexFest recreated his Jets situation in a quieter market.

Maybe patience and particular talent in a quieter market, and a more supportive organization are the tickets to success in this case, and Pegulas have a keen football eye. That's what I'm hoping. It would be a hoot to have Rex flourish here. More than a hoot, it will probably be so entertaining it will make up for the decades of angst, so there's that.

But that's how my opinion formed and I can't unform it until games happen.

[Goobylal]

Well....here's my thought, I'm not claiming to be an expert, though I'm not claiming to know less than some of them sometimes, because it happens being a devout fan and watching a situation evolving over decades, any one of us accumulates knowledge from afar not being intimately entangled in it. Again, I like Rex Ryan, he's RexFest, just not sure I see him working out here, so I have no bias against Ryan. But this is how I formed my opinion.

-Emphasizing the defense really is obvious. So obvious, any candidate would have said so.
-ST's are fine, obvious, any candidate would have said so.
-The team needs a QB, obvious, any candidate would have said so.
-Lacking a QB, need emphasize the running game, obvious, any candidate would have said so.

All of those things seem to be his plan, obvious, they would have had to have been for any candidates.
I'm with you here.

-What sets Ryan apart ? Personality, charisma, leadership.
And that's a good thing, no? You want your HC to be a leader and charismatic, no? But beyond that, the guy had amazing success his first 2 years with almost the exact same situation, albeit a better OC and IMHO (slightly) better QB.


Typically, they ask what about your staff ?
-Greg Roman. If you're going to go heavy running game, no one better I can think of.
-Kromer. Well I don't know about this, after Chicago, credibility will be an issue. Of course, I don't know Kromer. Under the umbrella of respected Roman and Rexfest, maybe not an issue.
-Bringing in all the Jets assistants. Defense makes perfect sense, ok. Offense....um. The guy that worked with Geno Smith that we fired before. "Trust me on this one". Ok Rex, ..."and all the rest of them". Umm..."Trust me on this ones." ....Ok Rex.

I'm not sure Roman and Kromer were real unavailable to others, or what set other defensive minded coaches apart of course.

What makes RexFest stand out ? Personality, charisma, leadership, no doubt. Good defense, absoulutely. Dazzling plan, well I don't see it.

I don't really need see it of course, and it doesn't mean this wasn't a hole in one hire because of what I didn't see.
What would you consider a "dazzling plan"? And wouldn't a "dazzling plan" be more in-line with the "RexFest" that you don't particularly care for?

As for Roman, he's been called a "genius" and was considered HC material at one time. While the proof of the pudding is in the eating, I like hearing that. But ultimately the fate of the team will rest on the offense getting up to speed with the other units. That means finding a franchise(-type) QB, whether it be EJ or someone else. Since there is no 1st rounder and no chance at one of the top guys this year, they build the running game by improving the OL and RB's and hope Lee can work some magic with EJ or someone else (although the more time passes, the more I think that a QB coach is overrated and either the guy has it or doesn't), and still rely on the defense and ST's.


But it makes me think they swooned over his personality for the above reasons, and it appears to me for the above reasons RexFest recreated his Jets situation in a quieter market.

Maybe patience and particular talent in a quieter market, and a more supportive organization are the tickets to success in this case, and Pegulas have a keen football eye. That's what I'm hoping. It would be a hoot to have Rex flourish here. More than a hoot, it will probably be so entertaining it will make up for the decades of angst, so there's that.

But that's how my opinion formed and I can't unform it until games happen.
I always thought that Ryan acted like a buffoon in NYC to take the spotlight off his team. In Buffalo, there won't be spotlight and if anything, I'm sure he's learned something from his past gig. At least we can hope.

[Mace]

I'm with you here.

And that's a good thing, no? You want your HC to be a leader and charismatic, no? But beyond that, the guy had amazing success his first 2 years with almost the exact same situation, albeit a better OC and IMHO (slightly) better QB.


What would you consider a "dazzling plan"? And wouldn't a "dazzling plan" be more in-line with the "RexFest" that you don't particularly care for?

I'll stick to what we don't agree about.

I don't think he had a better QB. I actually think Manuel was a better project QB. I think the diff is that Manuel has a clue what he doesn't know and overly minimizes his effort, while Smith has a clue what he doesn't know and overly maximizes his effort. Doesn't really matter so much if neither works out where they are anyway.

The thing about Ryan, with a better OC, is that it wasn't a better OC, it was better OC's. Schottenheimer, Sparano, then Mornhinwheg who I see as run/pass, run, and pass in their philosophies. It led to 2 years of amazing success sure, followed by 4 years of not success, trying different ways of not succeeding offensively and getting worse, not adapting.

Dazzling plan to me is something new, or how to use old things better, or how to make a different plan from the not obvious things we agreed on. Gailey came in with his pistol at least, the hope with Marrone/Hackett was hurry up k-gun.

You misunderstand what I say about RexFest. That means festival whether it works or not. I love the festival. I want to see it work though instead of waking up after 4 days all hungover and sore and covered in mud like I did at Woodstock '94, with a t-shirt.

Dazzling plan to me is not replicating the recent Jets with diff players. I like ground and pound, it's old school tough football, but it's not 2015 football. Ryan hasn't brought anything to the table besides a tough defense which we had, tough running game which we knew we needed because we have a feeble QB situation, and a ton of charisma and leadership which we didn't have and can get you 2 years of good and 4 years of bad. He didn't get a quick hook in NY, he had 6 years.

Dazzling plan to me is not the obvious. It's a plan, and a plan not to be the Jets all over again.

I think most people have met a stunning delightful partner who was terrible at some things and ignored shortcomings to bask in the stunning awhile while being regretful after about the obvious they already knew but ignored.

I still just see this as a personality hire. There's nothing new or exciting here but the obvious which didn't work somewhere else. I want to be wrong.

Besides charisma, what has Ryan brought to the table past the obvious ? I don't know, maybe it's enough, but like I said, I find it hard to think so though I'll try a while.

[swiper]

I love Schwartz as a DC, and think he did an amazing job. And I agree that Jackson with JS would have been a solid duo. However, I feel like we only had Schwartz for another year tops before he got offered another head coaching gig. As a result this team would have been searching for yet another DC. At least with Rex Ryan, the brain trust of our defensive philosophy will be around for the long term, and will help with keeping the continuity on that side of the ball.

Pepper Johnson (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/16/pepper-johnson-thinks-hes-being-pigeonholed/) still does not have a job.

[YardRat]

Pepper will probably go where Schwartz ends up.

[swiper]

Pepper will probably go where Schwartz ends up.

He didn't come in with him. The Bills improved an already good defense with the help of these two. The fact that Ryan wouldn't or couldn't retain one or both of them (the article I cited says Ryan promised Johnson a job) is not encouraging. Instead he brought in Thurman - who is a secondary coach at best. He's a Ryan lackey. The Bills defense will take a step back next year. Bank it. Coaching took a step back and the personnel doesn't match Ryan's scheme.

[Jry44]

Pepper Johnson (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/16/pepper-johnson-thinks-hes-being-pigeonholed/) still does not have a job.


He wasn't our defensive coordinator though. He will land a gig somewhere. The coaches in this league basically just recycle from position to position.

[Jry44]

He didn't come in with him. The Bills improved an already good defense with the help of these two. The fact that Ryan wouldn't or couldn't retain one or both of them (the article I cited says Ryan promised Johnson a job) is not encouraging. Instead he brought in Thurman - who is a secondary coach at best. He's a Ryan lackey. The Bills defense will take a step back next year. Bank it. Coaching took a step back and the personnel doesn't match Ryan's scheme.


Mike Pettine severely disagrees with you.

[swiper]

Mike Pettine severely disagrees with you.

No. He doesn't. Having Marcel Dareus and Kyle Williams, the DEs and LBs they have put together, the 4-3 base is much better suited to this personnel than the 3-4. Which one of Dareus or Williams will you use as your NT and who you going to switch to DE? You want to move Mario Williams to OLB? LOL. Your statement makes no sense. Especially given the fact that Schwartz switched things around to fit the personnel and the defense got BETTER than what Pettine did. So no one cares what Pettine thinks. He also is the guy that believes the "drunk off his ass (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-01-23/johnny-manziel-cleveland-browns-starting-quarterback-rookie-season-trouble)" Johnny Manziel is his QB of the future.

[swiper]

He wasn't our defensive coordinator though. He will land a gig somewhere. The coaches in this league basically just recycle from position to position.

Wow. Way to miss the point. You are worrying that Schwartz walks out. Johnson has been considered a DC in waiting for a couple of years now. Had Spagnulo not gone back to the NY Giants, he would have had that job. He knows the Buffalo personnel and the Schwartz's scheme. So, the point is, that if your worries came true Johnsone could step right in and the defense would not miss a beat -- therefore your worry about losing Schwartz is no big deal.

[SquishDaFish]

Rex said there is a spot on his staff for Pepper if he didnt get a DC job. I think he will be back

[Goobylal]

I'll stick to what we don't agree about.

I don't think he had a better QB. I actually think Manuel was a better project QB. I think the diff is that Manuel has a clue what he doesn't know and overly minimizes his effort, while Smith has a clue what he doesn't know and overly maximizes his effort. Doesn't really matter so much if neither works out where they are anyway.

The thing about Ryan, with a better OC, is that it wasn't a better OC, it was better OC's. Schottenheimer, Sparano, then Mornhinwheg who I see as run/pass, run, and pass in their philosophies. It led to 2 years of amazing success sure, followed by 4 years of not success, trying different ways of not succeeding offensively and getting worse, not adapting.

Dazzling plan to me is something new, or how to use old things better, or how to make a different plan from the not obvious things we agreed on. Gailey came in with his pistol at least, the hope with Marrone/Hackett was hurry up k-gun.

You misunderstand what I say about RexFest. That means festival whether it works or not. I love the festival. I want to see it work though instead of waking up after 4 days all hungover and sore and covered in mud like I did at Woodstock '94, with a t-shirt.

Dazzling plan to me is not replicating the recent Jets with diff players. I like ground and pound, it's old school tough football, but it's not 2015 football. Ryan hasn't brought anything to the table besides a tough defense which we had, tough running game which we knew we needed because we have a feeble QB situation, and a ton of charisma and leadership which we didn't have and can get you 2 years of good and 4 years of bad. He didn't get a quick hook in NY, he had 6 years.

Dazzling plan to me is not the obvious. It's a plan, and a plan not to be the Jets all over again.

I think most people have met a stunning delightful partner who was terrible at some things and ignored shortcomings to bask in the stunning awhile while being regretful after about the obvious they already knew but ignored.

I still just see this as a personality hire. There's nothing new or exciting here but the obvious which didn't work somewhere else. I want to be wrong.

Besides charisma, what has Ryan brought to the table past the obvious ? I don't know, maybe it's enough, but like I said, I find it hard to think so though I'll try a while.
He must have brought something more than just his defensive mind, which is widely hailed, because I think you'd find that most people think he was the top HC'ing candidate. True he's not dazzling, but good defense helps win games and I find that exciting. But out of curiosity, what prospective HC did you think would dazzle you?

And again, the OC is only as good as his QB. Until the Bills find a QB who can wing it, you won't get dazzling. And I wouldn't call the past 2 regimes dazzling. Sure they had plans, but those plans failed. And to me that's a reason to go in another direction.

[YardRat]

He didn't come in with him. The Bills improved an already good defense with the help of these two. The fact that Ryan wouldn't or couldn't retain one or both of them (the article I cited says Ryan promised Johnson a job) is not encouraging. Instead he brought in Thurman - who is a secondary coach at best. He's a Ryan lackey. The Bills defense will take a step back next year. Bank it. Coaching took a step back and the personnel doesn't match Ryan's scheme.

You're preaching to the choir on that one, brother.

[swiper]

Rex said there is a spot on his staff for Pepper if he didnt get a DC job. I think he will be back

Pepper Johnson took a job as the Jets D-line coach today.

[Mace]

He must have brought something more than just his defensive mind, which is widely hailed, because I think you'd find that most people think he was the top HC'ing candidate. True he's not dazzling, but good defense helps win games and I find that exciting. But out of curiosity, what prospective HC did you think would dazzle you?

And again, the OC is only as good as his QB. Until the Bills find a QB who can wing it, you won't get dazzling. And I wouldn't call the past 2 regimes dazzling. Sure they had plans, but those plans failed. And to me that's a reason to go in another direction.

I honestly had no clue about which coach would dazzle me this time around, but I was expecting offense, because they already had a good defense and Schwartz under contract to run it. The big crack in the foundation was offense. Still is.

I absolutely agree the past 2 regimes weren't dazzling, which shows you we are fully capable of making the wrong hire and most of the team responsible for the last one found this one. So you'd have to agree we are fully capable of picking someone who brings little to the table, and adding two rookie owners to the mix isn't really an emphatic statement of win. Again, I like Ryan, you're going to get good aggressive D, with more blitzes, which we already had without more blitzes, and it's going to be more entertaining, no doubt. I sincerely want him to succeed because it truly will be the most awesome party if we are rolling.

I'm not really sure what other direction you think we're going in though ? We obviously, from the previous obviouses, had to roll with D and running game. It's the same direction really, the obvious one as we agreed on, the only one really without some creative offensive mind who can use what we have better. I don't know who that offensive mind is, but you'd think that would have been the focus.

I'm skeptical of anyone being the top HC candidate via media, you should be too. Marrone was the top HC candidate anointed when he opted out, over Rex even. You just can't assume top candidate fits best everywhere unless you pay the most shallow attention and automatically assume top candidate is a latter day Belichick or new age Lombardi.

I can tell you, I think Ryan would have flourished with Atlanta. The O would have been fine, he'd have had his QB and weapons, and he could have worked to his strength, on that D, with an edge OC, but not by replicating the Jets offense.

I want this to work. Same thing though, strikes me as a strange hire, going about replicating the Jets, who again had 2 years of good followed by 4 years of declining quick.

I have to ask you, you were happy the Pegulas bit on the shiny, leadership and charisma we agreed on, we agreed the rest was obvious. Ryan is noted for having game management issues, what exactly do you think Rex brings to the table besides what other people assumed (the same who assumed Marrone mostly) after replicating his Jets staff and trying yet another running game OC when running games are not ruling the NFL these days ?

[Mace]

No. He doesn't. Having Marcel Dareus and Kyle Williams, the DEs and LBs they have put together, the 4-3 base is much better suited to this personnel than the 3-4. Which one of Dareus or Williams will you use as your NT and who you going to switch to DE? You want to move Mario Williams to OLB? LOL. Your statement makes no sense. Especially given the fact that Schwartz switched things around to fit the personnel and the defense got BETTER than what Pettine did. So no one cares what Pettine thinks. He also is the guy that believes the "drunk off his ass (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-01-23/johnny-manziel-cleveland-browns-starting-quarterback-rookie-season-trouble)" Johnny Manziel is his QB of the future.

The Bills used 3-4 looks, with Mario at OLB and Dareus at NT, it's only gap responsibility, and shifting ends to hand down or not, moving people around. They never used Mario as a true OLB, or Dareus as a true NT. That's the modern Ryan defense, the base is only that, people move, get up or down, switch gaps, corners and lb's crowd the line, drop, safeties come up, drop, the whole point of it is not using the base as the base.

Ryan is more cornerback centered, more 4-6 look, Pettine came to use lb's more, but their versions of hybrid are based on the base not being the base.

[YardRat]

Except the outside guys like Mario, Hughes, Lawson, whoever they slot into those "OLB" spots are going to have more coverage reads and responsibilities like they did under Pettine, which is more their weakness than strength, and the inside guys (Dareus, KW) are going to have to be a little more 'plugger' and little less 'disrupter'.

[Goobylal]

I'm not sure why everyone is sure Ryan will re-install the 3-4. While Mario is excited to move back to OLB, he admitted he hadn't talked with Ryan yet. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[DraftBoy]

I'm not sure why everyone is sure Ryan will re-install the 3-4.

Because that's what he runs?

[Goobylal]

Because that's what he runs?
He can run anything.

[swiper]

Didn't allude to running "his" defense in talking to the Buffalo press? Plus the fact that he talked to Schwartz and Schwartz left likely means that Ryan intends to run his defensive scheme, imo.