Should The Patriots Be Disqualified From The Super Bowl?

[BillsImpossible]

The Patriots cheated on purpose to win. Deflategate wasn't a fluke.

Disqualification? Call up the Colts and tell them they're going to the Super Bowl?

Yay or neh?

[SpikedLemonade]

Are you serious?

[YardRat]

Not only should they not play in the Super Bowl, Belicheck should be banned for life, Brady should be banned from any and all honors including the HOF and Kraft should be forced to sell the team. **** 'em all, they've been cheating for a decade almost that we know of, and who the hell really knows what transgressions they've committed prior to Spygate or in between that and Inflategate. The entire relationship started on sketchy ground with BB's hiring, and has only gotten worse. Where there is smoke, there is fire, and that piece of **** organization is burning down the house.

Never going to happen, though. Nobody has the balls to push the nuclear option, and money talks.

[notacon]

I made my case earlier today. Unequivocally YES. They should forfeit the Colts game. We should have a Seahawks-Colts Supper Bowl. If not, this whole season s compromised.


To those that say that because the Pats beat Indy 40 whatever to 7, and it does not "change the outcome of the blowout", or that it's "not that big of a deal", that it was "not such a big deal in this game", or "it's not about the Colts losing the game", or "Blount didn't need a(n) underinflated ball to run all over them"...and all the other defenses or rationalizations....

I disagree vehemently.

Of COUSE it makes a big difference, and it could certainly have been a BIG difference in that very game.

THAT IS WHY THERE ARE RULES!!! One breaks the rules that are determined to ensure there is no artificial competitive advantage with the very basis of how the game is played (the equipment), it's cheating...pure and simple, and the "win" the Pats got out of this is, in my book, INVALID!!

Why else do the Pats deflate balls but to give themselves an unfair advantage. Who knows how many throws that were catches would not be so, or turn into a deflected INT. THAT is the point. ANY play can be a turning point of a game. Like we saw in Seattle, would that on-side kick been recovered by Green Bay if the ball was a little softer??

The punishment should be, the Pats forfeit the Colts game and Indy plays in the Super Bowl. It won't happen, but, it should. Why?

Because the integrity of that game is nonexistent. A game is supposed to determined who plays better for that game, at that time. This action unfairly skews that whole premise and having the winner advance. There will always be questions....did the Pats win the game "fairly" (absolutely NO!!), if both teams were playing with the mandated equal equipment would the results be different? No one knows, which is why the game is NOT a reflection of who won "fair and square", and the Pats committed an offense that deserves forfeiting the game.

In the regular season, if caught doing this, they should get a loss and the other team gets a win. Period, end of story.

This just happened to take place in a winner advance playoff game...so, the Pats do not advance. Period, end of story.

[OpIv37]

It's irrelevant.

Disqualifying the Patriots would be a public relations disaster for the NFL, not to mention a logistical nightmare to get the Colts there and prepared on time.

It's not going to happen.

[notacon]

It's irrelevant.

Disqualifying the Patriots would be a public relations disaster for the NFL, not to mention a logistical nightmare to get the Colts there and prepared on time.

It's not going to happen.

That's not the question. Of course the Pats won't forfeit the game they blatantly cheated in. They should though.

[Strongman]

At the very minimum, Brady should be benched for the Super Bowl.

[HHURRICANE]

Well at the end of the day, they'll play and win. If you want to put an asterisk next to them have at it.

[Woodman]

Answer to the question yep. (the cheating bastards gotta be disqualified)

Feb 1st ... (Ravens vs. Broncos)

Feb 8th ... Colts play winner of above matchup.

Feb. 15th "THE REAL SUPER BOWL" ..... Seattle vs. ___________ .

Problem solved.

One last thing ... Bill B. should be banned for next season.

[ICRockets]

No, of course they shouldn't. The punishment will be lost draft picks, and if the investigation finds that this was something the Pats were doing on the regular, then Kraft needs to be fined several million dollars, and Belichick needs to be indefinitely suspended by the league. You can't kick people out of the league for hitting family members and then turn around and do nothing when games are being manipulated.

But all that said, overturning the outcome of the game is an absurd ask.

[Downinfloflo]

The NFL will give them a fine, and take away a few picks.

Nothing the team won't get over in a week.

[paladin warrior]

Should hold on in a little while with investigation and cancel SB on the Feb 1 st and change the date SB . Hopefully. NFL Court or congress Disqualified for patriots and change into SB Colts vs Seattle Seahawks.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Goodell is a pussy I'm willing to bet nothing happens. He has continuously shown to be a total stooge without any integrity.

Don't rock the boat baby, people making money hand over fist.

Money above all else.

[Strongman]

Goodell will do something... Like put out a memo that any Seahawk doing a TD celebration during the SB that mocks under inflated football will be heavily fined.

[YardRat]

Logistics my ass...it's simply a matter of flying one team out, and another team in. That's the easy part. The real stickler is money, and viewership.

[Meathead]

belicheat and marcia take four viagra each then watch porn with their wiener submerged in ice water for four hours

its called water boning

[ICRockets]

One thing I'm definitely interested to see in the aftermath of this, is what Tom Brady does this offseason. I think if he knew about this, he's a lock to stay with the Pats. But he's got a window to leave this spring because of the contract restructure they just went through. If I'm Tom Brady and I had nothing to do with deflating the balls, I get the hell out of Foxboro and go to a franchise that is not known for this sort of horsecrap.

[coastal]

Suspend Bellicheat and that Ugg wearing homo Brady from the game and all of next year.

[Novacane]

I hope this is all that's talked about super bowl week. Embarrass Goodell and the NFL. If the media doesn't let this die it won't.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

i think you have to suspend bellicheat for a year. See the bountygate scandal which was not so much an integrity of the game issue, but a game safety issue. Nobody ever proved that Sean Payton had any clue what was going on, yet they laid the hammer on him for that issue. That should be precedent enough (especially given prior bad acts) to suspend the coach for at least a year.

that being said... No, i do not believe they should forfeit the game, etc

[Strongman]

Brady needs to be suspended. They need to lose draft picks for 3 years and lose a couple home games next year as well.

[better days]

Well at the end of the day, they'll play and win. If you want to put an asterisk next to them have at it.

The CHEATING Patriots* will play in the Super Bowl, but they will not win.

There will be no cheating in this game.

[trapezeus]

Frankly, i kind of hope the pats do win and that brady and belichick see everyone looking at that podium with the skepticism in their eyes and the disgust. the interviews real short. the tv's all going off immediately. The nfl seeing that propping this team up over the years hurt the league in the long run. For cheaters, i think they do all this hoping to not get caught but when they get caught and they win, that's when they know the real shame. and it can't be passed on. we don't get to revel in it. it's theirs and theirs alone. And frankly, i hope that pain comes to them because they won and that it stays and hurts forever.

if the pats win, i think most fans who have been vehemently against the cheating and how it was swept away would start just giving up. i turned off the AFC championship game because its' the same crap. Brady got hit hard and there was a flag for a totally legal hit. they protect this team to no end.

i wasn't tryin to send them a message to the league, but it is no longer fun to see if teams can beat them when the pats get every single break. You know that teams can't beat them. The pats always get to the top eventually given the length of the cheating and the bias in officiating.

they have a history of being crappy in the first 4 weeks. i honestly think belichick tries to avoid cheating and do it legit and gets smoked cause he sucks. and then like an addict, he goes back. even in this game, they probably didn't need to do anything. luck was inaccurate and the colts came out nervous. but they screwed around with it anyway. they even tried the substitution crap again just to see if they could sneak it in again.

Let the pats enjoy their "win", and that probably will be the final straw that breaks a lot of fans backs.

[Mr. Miyagi]

It's irrelevant.

Disqualifying the Patriots would be a public relations disaster for the NFL, not to mention a logistical nightmare to get the Colts there and prepared on time.

It's not going to happen.
You're confusing "would" with "should".

It would never happen due to the logistical reasons you stated. Isolating the external circumstances from the crime and punishment portion of the situation, do you think they should be punished and how so?

[Buckets]

NO
The deflated balls were caught at half time and NE scored most of their points the second half. No harm no foul.

[Meathead]

its the only enhanced interrogation technique approved by the obama administration you know

[IlluminatusUIUC]

The trophy has been appropriately altered to Brady's liking:

http://i.imgur.com/XUX0Nx3.jpg

[justasportsfan]

Suspend BB for a year. Payton did as well as Greg Williams and they didn't cheat.

[trapezeus]

they should also essentially "audit" a day in the life of belichick. be proactive on the number of things the team is doing. it should be done as a surprise the day of the game, check the helmets, the feeds they are getting, make sure ernie adams like locked out (or his responsibilities clearly sketched out).

To think only 2 things have occured that no other team has been caught with or alleged to do, the next scandal is only a few years away. the NFL should get ahead of it by making the penalties very strict, and putting under the eye of a regulator so they know what other crap is going to be coming/discourage them from trying to bend the rules.

[coastal]

They weren't going to let Marshawn Lynch on the field if he wore gold shoes.

the hypocrisy of the NFL is about to boil over.

[Meathead]

battery acid?

[trapezeus]

They weren't going to let Marshawn Lynch on the field if he wore gold shoes.

the hypocrisy of the NFL is about to boil over.

"but....but.....but.... they won anyways. everyone changes their shoes. ML isn't a pain in the ass even though he has a long history of being a pain in the ass"
-pats fan logic.

[Albany,n.y.]

The Colts in the Super Bowl would be a total joke. They already showed how bad they are vs NE & Dallas. It makes as much sense as declaring the team that finished 2nd in the AFC East the AFC Champs. Actually, not a bad idea, but would Orton come back & play?

[CommissarSpartacus]

LOL!

This is the STUPIDEST "controversy" in the history of the NFL.

Why is it that ALL the QBs we've heard from have laughed this off?

I thought the NFL was supposed to be a man's league.

Spygate was stupid enough, now Ballgate?

I just hope the Patriots wipe out the Seahawks just so all the haters spend the rest of the year grinding their teeth and beating their dog...

Honest to God, ANYONE that's excited about this should be ashamed of yourselves.

You've totally poisoned the Superbowl out of spite.

Enjoy yourselves whining all game about trivia...

There's a reason why Belichek, Brady and Kraft are consistent winners and most of the rest of the teams are consistent losers and it has nothing to do with cheating...

[trapezeus]

LOL!

This is the STUPIDEST "controversy" in the history of the NFL.

Why is it that ALL the QBs we've heard from have laughed this off?

I thought the NFL was supposed to be a man's league.

Spygate was stupid enough, now Ballgate?

I just hope the Patriots wipe out the Seahawks just so all the haters spend the rest of the year grinding their teeth and beating their dog...

Honest to God, ANYONE that's excited about this should be ashamed of yourselves.

You've totally poisoned the Superbowl out of spite.

Enjoy yourselves whining all game about trivia...

There's a reason why Belichek, Brady and Kraft are consistent winners and most of the rest of the teams are consistent losers and it has nothing to do with cheating...

Yet most haven't laughed it off and said it's a particular edge.

i say the NFL golden rule should stand. "just give it to them". This is the beginning of the end when they let cheaters continuously get away with it.

They've been caught twice cheating and no other team has. no other dynasty has been put under this microscope. no one is to blame but hte patriot organization and to whatever extent the NFL is accepting of it.

they are the kid with all the candy and no one to share it with, because no one respects them.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Yet most haven't laughed it off and said it's a particular edge.

i say the NFL golden rule should stand. "just give it to them". This is the beginning of the end when they let cheaters continuously get away with it.

They've been caught twice cheating and no other team has. no other dynasty has been put under this microscope. no one is to blame but hte patriot organization and to whatever extent the NFL is accepting of it.

they are the kid with all the candy and no one to share it with, because no one respects them.

Don't be silly.

"Spygate" wasn't cheating and neither is this.

This is just a bunch of butt-hurt haters.

Thanks for ruining the superbowl, loser-men...

[paladin warrior]

Next time bring weight scale to Ref. Put in the back pocket. Like a cocaine weight scale. If the ref found deflated the ball and 15 yard plenty ( use only patriot ball )

[Meathead]

plus barbed wire and thats my final offer

[coastal]

LOL!

This is the STUPIDEST "controversy" in the history of the NFL.

Why is it that ALL the QBs we've heard from have laughed this off?

I thought the NFL was supposed to be a man's league.

Spygate was stupid enough, now Ballgate?

I just hope the Patriots wipe out the Seahawks just so all the haters spend the rest of the year grinding their teeth and beating their dog...

Honest to God, ANYONE that's excited about this should be ashamed of yourselves.

You've totally poisoned the Superbowl out of spite.

Enjoy yourselves whining all game about trivia...

There's a reason why Belichek, Brady and Kraft are consistent winners and most of the rest of the teams are consistent losers and it has nothing to do with cheating...
The NFL doesn't agree with you that Spygate wasn't cheating.

As far as Inflategate... let's say in the last Ryder Cup it was proven the Eurotrash used gassed up golf balls that were out of specs. Let's then say, a decade before they were caught filming who the American fourball lineup was prior to them announcing theirs in an effort to maximize their strengths.

You'd be ok with that?

dont bother answering because I already know you have some stupid anti-American bias that's going to steer you down the road of pseudo-manly righteousness... same as you do for your butt buddy Putin.

The truth is you pick sides more than anyone for whatever your personal "reason" is. The only reason I can fathom for your odd support of the Pats is your unnerving need to seem like boat rocking rebel.

its pathetic... especially for a man of your tooth length.

fix it.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

LOL!

This is the STUPIDEST "controversy" in the history of the NFL.

Why is it that ALL the QBs we've heard from have laughed this off?

Most have laughed this off because they did it themselves.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/the_blitz/2015/01/mark_brunell_deflated_footballs_can_make_remarkable_difference

"The main thing was the difference that two psi (pounds per square inch) can make," said Brunell, who got a chance to inspect a ball that fit that description earlier Wednesday on SportsCenter. "It's a remarkable difference because you're able to grip it a lot easier. The ball we used on SportsCenter, it felt like a ball you could get out of your garage and go play ball with with your son. There's just a big difference."

Brad Johnson admitted he paid guys off before the Super Bowl to underinflate balls as well, though he did it to all of them.

TBH, with any other team it wouldn't be as big a deal, but this is a team that makes a strategy out of working the refs and bending rules to their absolute breaking point. The illegal contact they were using to stifle Manning's Colts in early 2000s, Spygate, the attempts at illegal substitution on fourth down vs. the Broncos, the constant manipulation of the injury report and IR system, the ineligble receiver stuff they pulled on the Ravens, and so on.

The endless gamesmanship gets old, and so when they step over the line people naturally react.

[notacon]

LOL!

This is the STUPIDEST "controversy" in the history of the NFL.

Why is it that ALL the QBs we've heard from have laughed this off?

I thought the NFL was supposed to be a man's league.

Spygate was stupid enough, now Ballgate?

I just hope the Patriots wipe out the Seahawks just so all the haters spend the rest of the year grinding their teeth and beating their dog...

Honest to God, ANYONE that's excited about this should be ashamed of yourselves.

You've totally poisoned the Superbowl out of spite.

Enjoy yourselves whining all game about trivia...

There's a reason why Belichek, Brady and Kraft are consistent winners and most of the rest of the teams are consistent losers and it has nothing to do with cheating...

Of course this was cheating...and of the worst kind.

ANYONE who is defending these cheaters should be ashamed of themselves.

[Meathead]

the reason its a joke is because you just know nothing real is going to happen. they're going to take away some draft picks and fine them some money but that's not going to change the results. to me this is serious but about one tenth as bad as spyg and they did nothing real about that. as repeat offenders both Belichick and Brady should be suspended for the Super Bowl at least but there aint a fat girls chance in hell of that happening

[Mr. Pink]

This is really no different than what happened to the Chargers when they were caught using Stick Um back in 2012. Oh wait, it wasn't stick um, it was just a towel that had sticky type substance on it...ie swept under the rug by the NFL.

Chargers were fined 20k for it.

[trapezeus]

Don't be silly.

"Spygate" wasn't cheating and neither is this.

This is just a bunch of butt-hurt haters.

Thanks for ruining the superbowl, loser-men...

thanks for showing us you are a pats fan. And if this ruins your superbowl, excellent.

Stealing signals when the league specifically says you can't do that in a memo, is cheating. and yes, if you have a team of people dedicated to breaking those signals down and wiring them in from the booth to the QB after the 15 second cut off, that is a huge advantage. Every qb interviewed on the subject agrees as much. if they were given the exact defense they are matching up against, they can essentially skip reading the defense and use the 4 seconds to have a quick release to the guy who will be covered the least.

[trapezeus]

the fact this is taking so long and the fact the implications can be that the refs themselves knew and didn't do anything about it is beginning to make this seem like it's a big deal.

i hope the pats win the superbowl so badly now and that the crowd just boos the **** out of them.

[paladin warrior]

LOL!

This is the STUPIDEST "controversy" in the history of the NFL.

Why is it that ALL the QBs we've heard from have laughed this off?

I thought the NFL was supposed to be a man's league.

Spygate was stupid enough, now Ballgate?

I just hope the Patriots wipe out the Seahawks just so all the haters spend the rest of the year grinding their teeth and beating their dog...

Honest to God, ANYONE that's excited about this should be ashamed of yourselves.

You've totally poisoned the Superbowl out of spite.

Enjoy yourselves whining all game about trivia...

There's a reason why Belichek, Brady and Kraft are consistent winners and most of the rest of the teams are consistent losers and it has nothing to do with cheating... No No No . you got all wrong jack-a$$ . I hope and all NFL Fans (except Cheater ) want Seahawks wipe out the cheater/spy gate . you are still loser and 100% it still cheater.

[gebobs]

Belichick is twisted. He's got a problem. For the sake of the game, he should be banned. In a perfect world, Goodell would disqualify them. But he will likely apply the punishment stated in the rules. What is it? $25k per ball. And that's the evil madness of Belichick. He flouts the edges of the rules, the spirit, the intent to garner a significant advantage over his opponents who play faithfully within the rules.

In a perfect world, the commish would investigate Brady's role. In a perfect world, the investigation would discover the obvious: there's no way in the world that he could not have known and there it is likely it was done with his knowledge if not by his direction. According to a Ravens fan I work with, they noticed the deflated balls too and notified the Colts.

There's a pattern of rule abuse here going back at least 10 years. Fines mean nothing to these guys and they obviously have no regrets having been caught before. Next year, they'll pore through the rule book and look for another crack to slip through. In a perfect world, drastic action would be taken. As others have mentioned, such action might include forced sale, banishment, forfeiture of the whole season, etc.

But it's not a perfect world. Far from it. And here is how it will probably go down...

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5TEvacFETvM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[cookie G]

LOL!

This is the STUPIDEST "controversy" in the history of the NFL.

Why is it that ALL the QBs we've heard from have laughed this off?

I thought the NFL was supposed to be a man's league.

Spygate was stupid enough, now Ballgate?

I just hope the Patriots wipe out the Seahawks just so all the haters spend the rest of the year grinding their teeth and beating their dog...

Honest to God, ANYONE that's excited about this should be ashamed of yourselves.

You've totally poisoned the Superbowl out of spite.

Enjoy yourselves whining all game about trivia...

Even in the "if you ain't cheatin', you ain't competin' world of Nascar/Sprint Cup racing...drivers/teams get fined, suspended, and points taken away when they're caught.

"If you don't cheat, you look like an idiot. If you do it and you don't get caught, you look like a hero. If you do it and get caught, you look like a dope. Put me in the category where I belong,"

~Darrell Waltrip, after getting caught with nitrous oxide in his fuel tank at Daytona.

The times baseball players have been caught with corked bats, they usually got suspended for around 10 games.

I have no idea why the Pats should be exempt from punishment when they get their hand caught in the cookie jar...again.

But I will say, I do enjoy watching the Evil Genius morph into the village idiot when he's caught.


His pleas of ignorance are akin to a 10 year old.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Belichick is twisted. He's got a problem. For the sake of the game, he should be banned. In a perfect world, Goodell would disqualify them. But he will likely apply the punishment stated in the rules. What is it? $25k per ball.

I'm fine with a $25k fine per ball.

Let's see, 11 balls per game...14 seasons...plus 30 playoff games...that's $69.85 Million, let's round it to a cool $70 mil. Write the check, Bill.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Why is it that ALL the QBs we've heard from have laughed this off?

Besides the response that showed how Mark Brunell didn't laugh this off. Here's another link that shows you how stupid your argument is, this time from Aikman.

http://nypost.com/2015/01/22/aikman-on-deflategate-brady-knew-and-belichick-should-burn/

[better days]

Besides the response that showed how Mark Brunell didn't laugh this off. Here's another link that shows you how stupid your argument is, this time from Aikman.

http://nypost.com/2015/01/22/aikman-on-deflategate-brady-knew-and-belichick-should-burn/

I heard a clip from Polian this morning on WGR.

Polian said this was a MAJOR INFRACTION, NOT a misdemeanor!

[better days]

And on Profootballtalk.com, John Harbaugh is saying yes it is an unfair advantage to deflate ball & it is CHEATING.

Troy Aikman is saying the Pats* should get greater punishment than the Saints got for bountygate.

[justasportsfan]

Don't be silly.

"Spygate" wasn't cheating and neither is this.

This is just a bunch of butt-hurt haters.

Thanks for ruining the superbowl, loser-men...

So you're telling us that the League took away a draft pick and fined them .5 million because they didn't cheat? Thats just stupid.

Spygate may be stupid but it was cheating. It was also INTENTIONAL cheating.

In other leagues other sports, teams/players pay for UNINTENTIONAL MISTAKES. Spygate was intentional.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

I still do not think Indy should be in the Superbowl. That being said, I am all for the Colts and Ravens --playing for the right to represent the AFC in the Superbowl this weekend. Failing that, because I know it would give Seattle an unfair advantage, I say let the Pats play in the Superbowl but only under the following conditions:

1. Brady and Bellichick cannot be involved in playing, game planning, practice, or participating in any way, shape or form with the game.
2. The Patriots get an asterisk in any media guide or league material to denote that all wins this year are suspect
3. If they win the superbowl they get an asterisk, see 2.
4. If they lose they get an asterisk
5. Seattle gets a 2 point advantage, and gets to return the opening kickoff to start the game.
6. Roger Goodell must appear at Halftime and tender his resignation and beg for the nation's forgiveness for his role in forever tarnishing the reputation of the League.

[SpikedLemonade]

No No No . you got all wrong jack-a$$ . I hope and all NFL Fans (except Cheater ) want Seahawks wipe out the cheater/spy gate . you are still loser and 100% it still cheater.

LOL!!!!

[sudzy]

Yes, the broke the rules again. I can't see disqualifying them from the Super Bowl. Punishment should come in the forms of fines, draft choices and suspensions.

[imbondz]

kinda like the pine tar incident back in the day in baseball or pitchers using spit balls…etc. it's cheating, but not on a disqualifying level like Spygate was.


my thing is if there's rules, why aren't there punishments already in place if those established rules are broken? now it seems like the NFL is making it up as they go.

[Strongman]

They should be banned from the Super Bowl and get the stiffest penalties allowed by the NFL. This is really damning:

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

[imbondz]

They should be banned from the Super Bowl and get the stiffest penalties allowed by the NFL. This is really damning:

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

this needs it's own thread!! That is crazy. @#$%@#^#@%^#@$%@%@#E

[imbondz]

I take back my light sentence after watching that.

[Strongman]

Besides the response that showed how Mark Brunell didn't laugh this off. Here's another link that shows you how stupid your argument is, this time from Aikman.

http://nypost.com/2015/01/22/aikman-on-deflategate-brady-knew-and-belichick-should-burn/

They should make Aikman the NFL commisioner

[chris66]

Has anybody stopped and wonded why the only information to come is morts report from Tuesday? The nfl has said nothing and no other reporter has said anything other than Jay glazer reporting that the refs handled the balls for the second half. I think people need to start turning their anger to the nfl

[CommissarSpartacus]

It's like you guys have never held a football in your hands.

First, the physics of heated and cooled air.

What happens to the inflation level of your tires in the winter? Cold air gets denser, so if you inlate the ball in a 75 degree room, then have them outside in 50 degree weather, what's going to happen to them? Guess what?

Second, footballs are a leather sac that's inflated with a steel hypodermic through a rubber ring in the surface. There is no cork or cap, just the rubber pressed together. Now, if a ton of flesh repeatedly lands on the ball, compressing it, guess what's gonna happen? Air gets expelled through the rubber ring.

If the Pats set the hot air inflation levels (and I believe there is no rule about filling the balls with hot air) at bare minimum when the balls are sequestered, it's only reasonable that the balls, after cooling down and being used all game would test lower than the minimum. But there is no rule stating how much air the ball has in it after the game, just before the game.

I have no doubt that Brady gives instructions to fill the balls with hot air to the minim,um pressure before the game. It's called preparation.

And just because the Pats balls were found under pressure AFTER the game does not in any way prove they were doctored.

The NFL has only themselves to blame for this. If they think it's a concern, they can easily install procedures.

But bringing this up NOW, after the balls had 2ERO to do with the Colts getting thrashed just indicates how much Roger Goodell hates the Patriots and wants to shift the blame for a disastrous season, corporation-wise, on to the Patriots.

Spygate was battle between Goodell and the Patriots, who felt that the NFL, in putting in a no taping rule after Eric Mangini went to Goodell and complained, was conducting a vendetta against the club, so they DELIBERATELY BAITED Goodelll into making it an issue, and even though they were fined (they could care less), they shoved a perfect season into Goodell's face.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a setup by Goodell and he knew all along they planned to pull this on the Patriots.

Goodell gets his revenge by poisoning a possible Patriots Superbowl victory.

Of course you guys all WANT the Patriots to be guilty of something so stupid and buy into it right away because you hate the Patriots.

This is the essence of truthiness. It may not be true but it FEELS like it should be true, so let's all believe it....

[CommissarSpartacus]

They should be banned from the Super Bowl and get the stiffest penalties allowed by the NFL. This is really damning:

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

It seems they pulled the article.

Maybe they had second thoughts about getting their asses sued off for libel...

[Strongman]

It seems they pulled the article.

Maybe they had second thoughts about getting their asses sued off for libel...

Server are probably crashing because so many people are looking for it:

The New England Patriots Prevention of Fumbles is Nearly Impossible
Posted on January 22, 2015
Yesterday I investigated whether or not the New England Patriots outperform expectations in bad weather. I had several recommendations to look at home and road data, as opposed to just home data. Mulling whether or not to undertake that further (time consuming) analysis, I watched this video:


I immediately noticed something that cannot be overlooked: the issue with ball security and fumbles. Then I remembered this remarkable fact:

The 2014 Patriots were just the 3rd team in the last 25 years to never have lost a fumble at home! The biggest difference between the Patriots and the other 2 teams who did it was that New England ran between 150 and 200 MORE plays this year than those teams did in the years they had zero home fumbles, making the Patriots stand alone in this unique statistic.

Based on the desire to incorporate full season data (not just home games, as a team theoretically bring “doctored footballs” with them on the road) I performed the following analysis:

I looked at the last 5 years of data (since 2010) and examined TOTAL FUMBLES in all games (as well as fumbles/game) but more importantly, TOTAL OFFENSIVE PLAYS RUN. Thus, we can to determine average PLAYS per FUMBLE, a much more valuable statistic. The results are displayed in the chart below. Keep in mind, this is for all games since 2010, regardless of indoors, outdoors, weather, site, etc. EVERYTHING.

(click to enlarge)

One can CLEARLY SEE the Patriots, visually, are off the chart. There is no other team even close to being near to their rate of 187 offensive plays (passes+rushes+sacks) per fumble. The league average is 105 plays/fumble. Most teams are within 21 plays of that number.

I spoke with a data scientist who I know from work on the NFLproject.com website, and sent him the data. He said:

Based on the assumption that fumbles per play follow a normal distribution, you’d expect to see, according to random fluctuation, the results that the Patriots have gotten over this period, once in 16,233.77 instances”.

Which in layman’s terms means that this result only being a coincidence, is like winning a raffle where you have a 0.0000616 probability to win. Which in other words, it’s very unlikely that it’s a coincidence.

I actually went back and researched 5 year periods for the entire NFL over the last 25 years. The Patriots ratio of 187 plays to 1 fumble is the BEST of ANY team in the NFL for ANY 5 year span of time over the last 25 years. Not was it just the best, it wasn’t close:

2010-2014 Patriots: 187 plays/fumble
2009-2013 Patriots: 156 plays/fumble
2006-2010 Colts: 156 plays/fumble
2005-2009 Colts: 153 plays/fumble
2007-2011 Patriots: 149 plays/fumble
2008-2012 Patriots: 148 plays/fumble
2010-2014 Texans: 140 plays/fumble
2004-2008 Colts: 139 plays/fumble
2006-2010 Jets: 135 plays/fumble
1999-2003 Chiefs: 134 plays/fumble
There are a few key takeaways. First and foremost, the 187 plays/fumble dwarfs even the rest of the best seasons the last 25 years. Second, the Patriots have been at the top of the NFL since 2007.

Ironically, as my study yesterday showed, the Patriots performance in wet weather home games mysteriously turned ridiculous starting in 2007. In 2006, they went 0-2. From 2007 onward, they went 14-1.

The next obvious question becomes, where were the Patriots in this statistic pre-2007? Take a look:

(click to enlarge)

As you can see, the Patriots won their Super Bowls having a below average rate of fumbles lost given today’s average of 105 plays/game. But in 2007, something happened to propel them to a much better rate (you’ll remember, that just so happened to be the same year they went 16-0 in the regular season). But even looking at these numbers, its clear how insane the 187 number is: they are almost running 100 MORE plays without a single fumble as compared to the 2002-2006 period when they won 2 of their 3 Super Bowls.

To further illustrate how these numbers are astonishing, the below graphics lay out clearly how far off the Patriots are from the rest of the league. Its evident to the eye how far removed they are from the norm. Whether we look at a histogram laying it out, where the Patriots and their 187 plays/fumble is far from the “bell shaped curve”:

(click to enlarge)

or the same chart as above, this time displaying color bands as we move away from the 105 plays/fumble average. You can see the darker red band contains all teams but the bottom 3 and the top 3, and that the bottom 3 are very close to the darker red band. Meanwhile, the Patriots are really in a league of their own:

(click to enlarge)

Could the Patriots be so good that they just defy the numbers? As my friend theorized: Perhaps they’ve invented a revolutionary in-house way to protect the ball, or perhaps they’ve intentionally stocked their skill positions with players who don’t have a propensity to fumble. Or perhaps still, they call plays which intentionally result in a lower percentage of fumbles. Or maybe its just that they play with deflated footballs on offense. It could be any combination of the above.

But regardless of what, specifically, is causing these numbers, the fact remains: this is an extremely abnormal occurrence and is NOT simply random fluctuation.

_____________________________________

UPDATE: It was suggested that I look at ALL fumbles, not just fumbles lost. With that said, let’s look there:

First, it should be noted (as the tables above show) that teams playing indoors fumble the ball less frequently. Reasons are many, foremost the ball won’t be wet from precipitation, damp from late night condensation, and a variety of other reasons. Which is why, if you look at the very first chart I posted above, you’ll see the teams who fumble the MOST/play are generally colder weather teams who play outdoors (PHI, DEN, BUF, PIT, WAS, NYG, KC, NYJ). Whereas at the other end of the spectrum, aside from the Patriots in their own world, are HOU, ATL and NO, all dome teams.

The below graphic looks at ALL fumbles over 5 year periods the last 25 years. I planned to cut this off at JUST the top 10 teams, but all we would have seen were the Patriots and dome teams. Top 15 would have accomplished the same. So I had to expand to the top 25 team periods. As you can see, of the top 25 team-periods, 17 are dome teams, including 11 of the top 15. First, let’s look at the chart, then we’ll look at comparisons to average:

(click to enlarge)

As is apparent, the Patriots are the only outdoor NFL team the last 25 years to average 70 plays/fumble or better, and they did it from 2007-2014 (four, five year periods). Its simply uncanny, as the statistics above similarly showed.

Averages:

Over the last 25 years, indoor teams averaged 43 plays/fumble (in all games they played that season, regardless of site, understanding that half their games would be played indoor sans-weather).
Since 2000, they improved to 46 plays/fumble.
Over the last 25 years, outdoor teams averaged 41 plays/fumble.
Since 2000, they improved to 43 plays/fumble.
The Patriots averaged 73 plays/fumble the past 5 years, almost 70% better than the 43 plays/fumble that outdoor teams averaged since 2000.

Next, lets look only at the current 5 year period:

The league average plays per fumble from 2010 thru 2014 was 50 plays/fumble.

For indoor teams, the average was 55 plays/fumble.
For outdoor teams, excluding the Patriots, the average was 46 plays/fumble (9 fewer).
The Patriots averaged 73 plays/fumble, almost 60% MORE than outdoor teams, and almost 50% MORE than the league average the past 5 years.

(click to enlarge)

Since we now can clearly in the data, both near term and long term, that dome-based teams (who play at least 8 games out of the elements) have an advantage in the fumble department, we can exclude them from comparisons to the Patriots.

If we do, I can produce a chart identical to the one at the very top which looked ONLY at fumbles lost. This one looks at ALL fumbles, whether lost or recovered. I think the point still remains:

(click to enlarge)

If this chart looks nearly identical, it should. The Patriots are so “off the map” when it comes to either fumbles or only fumbles lost. As mentioned earlier: this is an extremely abnormal occurrence and is NOT simply random fluctuation.

[CommissarSpartacus]

The Patriots use special balls sewed with steel thread and gloves with magnets in them.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Has anyone posted the relevant rules about this yet?

What are the official procedures?

[Skooby]

The Patriots cheated on purpose to win. Deflategate wasn't a fluke.

Disqualification? Call up the Colts and tell them they're going to the Super Bowl?

Yay or neh?

Colts need to represent.

[Strongman]

The Patriots use special balls sewed with steel thread and gloves with magnets in them.

If you don't believe it. There's a very easy way to test it... Look at RBs that have left New England. If their fumble rate suddenly jumps up after leaving NE, then I would say it's because of the footballs they used.

Look at BenJarvus Green-Ellis' stats at New England and afterwards. What happens?

http://www.nfl.com/player/benjarvusgreen-ellis/929/careerstats

[CommissarSpartacus]

Hey, I just got neg repped for my first post (Pointless post just trying to get a reaction) by some moron without the guts to say it in public.

Way to go pal!

[CommissarSpartacus]

If you don't believe it. There's a very easy way to test it... Look at RBs that have left New England. If their fumble rate suddenly jumps up after leaving NE, then I would say it's because of the footballs they used.

Look at BenJarvus Green-Ellis' stats at New England and afterwards. What happens?

http://www.nfl.com/player/benjarvusgreen-ellis/929/careerstats

Or they played on crappier teams with crappier coaches.

Do you think the startling difference in numbers of fumble is EXCLUSIVELY due to a couple of less psi in the football?

Does it make THAT big a difference?

[Strongman]

Or they played on crappier teams with crappier coaches.

Do you think the startling difference in numbers of fumble is EXCLUSIVELY due to a couple of less psi in the football?

Does it make THAT big a difference?

So Belichick can coach him to hold a ball in a certain way so that he won't fumble. He forgets this when he signs with the Bengals so they teach him to hold a ball a different way?

Are you sure you want that to be your argument?

[CommissarSpartacus]

So Belichick can coach him to hold a ball in a certain way so that he won't fumble. He forgets this when he signs with the Bengals so they teach him to hold a ball a different way?

Are you sure you want that to be your argument?

So, you think the difference is exclusively because of the balls?

Are you sure you want that to be your argument?

Strength of team and coaching has nothing to do with it?

[BertSquirtgum]

I don't believe anything will happen but the hammer should be dropped. Hard. It should be Baltimore and Seattle in the Super Bowl.

[Strongman]

So, you think the difference is exclusively because of the balls?

Are you sure you want that to be your argument?

Strength of team and coaching has nothing to do with it?

No, not exclusively because of the low pressure footballs, but it does have an effect.

[CommissarSpartacus]

No, not exclusively because of the low pressure footballs, but it does have an effect.

Okay, so who gets to say how much of it is strength of team and coaching and how much is under inflated footballs?

Have we checked Payton Manning's footballs?

Do you think any of the other teams who lead in least fumbles also underinflated the balls?

[coastal]

I'm interested to see if any mainstream media picks up in these stats... vets them... and starts giving them the run they deserve if they r accurate.

[paladin warrior]

It's like you guys have never held a football in your hands.

First, the physics of heated and cooled air.

What happens to the inflation level of your tires in the winter? Cold air gets denser, so if you inlate the ball in a 75 degree room, then have them outside in 50 degree weather, what's going to happen to them? Guess what?

Second, footballs are a leather sac that's inflated with a steel hypodermic through a rubber ring in the surface. There is no cork or cap, just the rubber pressed together. Now, if a ton of flesh repeatedly lands on the ball, compressing it, guess what's gonna happen? Air gets expelled through the rubber ring.

If the Pats set the hot air inflation levels (and I believe there is no rule about filling the balls with hot air) at bare minimum when the balls are sequestered, it's only reasonable that the balls, after cooling down and being used all game would test lower than the minimum. But there is no rule stating how much air the ball has in it after the game, just before the game.

I have no doubt that Brady gives instructions to fill the balls with hot air to the minim,um pressure before the game. It's called preparation.

And just because the Pats balls were found under pressure AFTER the game does not in any way prove they were doctored.

The NFL has only themselves to blame for this. If they think it's a concern, they can easily install procedures.

But bringing this up NOW, after the balls had 2ERO to do with the Colts getting thrashed just indicates how much Roger Goodell hates the Patriots and wants to shift the blame for a disastrous season, corporation-wise, on to the Patriots.

Spygate was battle between Goodell and the Patriots, who felt that the NFL, in putting in a no taping rule after Eric Mangini went to Goodell and complained, was conducting a vendetta against the club, so they DELIBERATELY BAITED Goodelll into making it an issue, and even though they were fined (they could care less), they shoved a perfect season into Goodell's face.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a setup by Goodell and he knew all along they planned to pull this on the Patriots.

Goodell gets his revenge by poisoning a possible Patriots Superbowl victory.

Of course you guys all WANT the Patriots to be guilty of something so stupid and buy into it right away because you hate the Patriots.

This is the essence of truthiness. It may not be true but it FEELS like it should be true, so let's all believe it....
Are you patriots fans?

[Strongman]

I'm interested to see if any mainstream media picks up in these stats... vets them... and starts giving them the run they deserve if they r accurate.

Yes, someone like Nate Silver at 583.com

It would be interesting to see some t-test run on Patriot RBs after 2007 and how they faired after leaving. By doing this, you can rule out the Belichick coaching effect and surmise it's because of something else.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

First, the physics of heated and cooled air.

What happens to the inflation level of your tires in the winter? Cold air gets denser, so if you inlate the ball in a 75 degree room, then have them outside in 50 degree weather, what's going to happen to them? Guess what?

Second, footballs are a leather sac that's inflated with a steel hypodermic through a rubber ring in the surface. There is no cork or cap, just the rubber pressed together. Now, if a ton of flesh repeatedly lands on the ball, compressing it, guess what's gonna happen? Air gets expelled through the rubber ring.

There's two problems with that. First, the balls were only exposed to the elements for about two hours before the halftime check, and the difference of 25 degrees hasn't been shown to have that effect in that time. Second, with regards to both points, the Colts' team balls were exposed to the same elements and the same forces, yet all their footballs checked out while 11 of the 12 Patriot balls did not.


If the Pats set the hot air inflation levels (and I believe there is no rule about filling the balls with hot air) at bare minimum when the balls are sequestered, it's only reasonable that the balls, after cooling down and being used all game would test lower than the minimum. But there is no rule stating how much air the ball has in it after the game, just before the game.

One rule states "The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind." (http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/2013%20-%20Rule%20Book.pdf) There's no time element to it. The rule only gives one point at which the balls are measured, but it's not like a boxing weigh-in. You still have to comply with the rule throughout the game.

Further: http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/12212777/tom-brady-new-england-patriots-says-alter-footballs
"Under NFL rules, no alteration of the footballs is allowed once they are approved by league officials. If a person is found breaking league rules and tampering with the footballs, that person could face up to a $25,000 fine and potentially more discipline."


I have no doubt that Brady gives instructions to fill the balls with hot air to the minim,um pressure before the game. It's called preparation.

I don't know about the hot air explanation, but Brady explicitly said he wanted them at the lowest allowed pressure and not to have any changes after. If he was deliberately inflating them with hot air so they would drop below the minimum by game time, that's not preparation.


And just because the Pats balls were found under pressure AFTER the game does not in any way prove they were doctored.

They were found to be under-pressured at halftime, and again, only the Patriot balls were.


But bringing this up NOW, after the balls had 2ERO to do with the Colts getting thrashed

True, the Colts did get thrashed and the quality of the Patriots game balls had nothing to do with how poorly the Colts offense played.

But, if all was exactly and you say and Brady was deliberately setting up the football to be under-inflated during the game, don't you think that may have affected previous games? Like, say, the divisional round game vs. the Ravens - which was 30 degrees colder, and saw the Patriots rally from two touchdown deficits twice, the latter happening when the Pats had 0 handoffs in the 2nd half.


Spygate was battle between Goodell and the Patriots, who felt that the NFL, in putting in a no taping rule after Eric Mangini went to Goodell and complained, was conducting a vendetta against the club, so they DELIBERATELY BAITED Goodelll into making it an issue, and even though they were fined (they could care less), they shoved a perfect season into Goodell's face.

Your time line is a little off. The NFL no-taping rule was emphasized in a leaguewide memo in September 2006. Mangini's complaint came during the Pats @ Jets game September 2007. The Pats were docked a first round draft pick and then suffered one of the most devastating losses in Super Bowl history, so I question whether they really came out on top in this story.


I wouldn't be surprised if this is a setup by Goodell and he knew all along they planned to pull this on the Patriots.

Of course you wouldn't.


The idea of draft pick penalties really don't discourage this, especially since both men are probably near the end of the careers. IMO they should figure out who was more involved in the decision to underinflate the balls and suspend them for the game.

[Discotrish]

Honest to God, ANYONE that's excited about this should be ashamed of yourselves.

You've totally poisoned the Superbowl out of spite.

Enjoy yourselves whining all game about trivia...

There's a reason why Belichek, Brady and Kraft are consistent winners and most of the rest of the teams are consistent losers and it has nothing to do with cheating...

Lecter's dance card isn't full.

Patti

[Discotrish]

Couldn't decide if this item belonged in my Weird Florida News thread or here. But at least an arrest has been made!


A Florida judge today issued an arrest warrant for the world’s biggest Tom Brady fan.

Victor Thompson--who has a replica of Brady’s New England Patriots helmet tattooed across his skull--failed to appear today for a court hearing in connection with his arrest for felony narcotics possession. As a result, an arrest warrant was signed by a Circuit Court judge.

The 46-year-old Thompson also was a no-show at a January 8 court hearing, according to records.

Cops Arrest Tom Brady's Head (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/drugs/arrest-warrant-issued-for-tom-brady-superfan-890671)

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/sites/default/files/assets/patsfanvictorthompson1.jpg

Patti

[feldspar]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7_0VsTIEAE7s42.jpg

[YardRat]

I'm hoping Irsay gets good and liquored up at the game and punches Kraft in the mouth.

[Historian]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/sites/default/files/assets/patsfanvictorthompson1.jpg

Patti

How ironic.

He looks as if he's been playing football without a helmet.

[Historian]

What happens to the inflation level of your tires in the winter? Cold air gets denser, so if you inlate the ball in a 75 degree room, then have them outside in 50 degree weather, what's going to happen to them? Guess what?



Nothing.

You're not going to see your tires go down until it's down into the single digits.

50 degrees is not enough to shrink a ball.

[YardRat]

Sure gives a whole new meaning to the term 'anti-trust', doesn't it?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Nothing.

You're not going to see your tires go down until it's down into the single digits.

50 degrees is not enough to shrink a ball.

BS, not to mention there is no rule about the temperature of the air you fill the ball with.

It's a mathematical certainty - air expands and contracts according to it's temperature.

[CommissarSpartacus]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7_0VsTIEAE7s42.jpg

Hey, that's the same map for all the people that believed Saddam had weapons of mass destruction!

[CommissarSpartacus]

Are you patriots fans?

Do I need to join a lynch mob to prove I don't like black people?

Do I need to endorse this nonsense to prove I'm not a Pat's fan?

WHY the **** should any of this have to do with what team you root for?

Ask yourself this - if this issue HAD NOT arisen, what would have been the big stories about Roger Goodell and the NFL in the run up to the Superbowl?

Ray Rice? Adrian Peterson? Concussions and brain trauma among retired players? Something else?

But now, all that's gone and the only story is the Patriots and their underinflated balls.

Boy, this has worked out so well for Goodell, it's almost like he planned it!

[paladin warrior]

I'm hoping Irsay gets good and liquored up at the game and punches Kraft in the mouth.
it this guy is Spartacus (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php/1163-Spartacus) pats fans ??

[justasportsfan]

it this guy is Spartacus (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php/1163-Spartacus) pats fans ??

he is JP Losman's biggest fan . He stalks JP.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

it this guy is Spartacus (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/member.php/1163-Spartacus) pats fans ??

Only when it serves a larger complaint about Americans. Note the comment about Iraq.

[Historian]

In fact, I don't recall any deflation with the footballs that day we beat the Raiders in the Divisional round, in January of 1994.

The temp at kickoff was -4.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Only when it serves a larger complaint about Americans. Note the comment about Iraq.

Unfortunately, you guys have a disastrous penchant for believing things that just aren't true.

Not my fault...

[CommissarSpartacus]

In fact, I don't recall any deflation with the footballs that day we beat the Raiders in the Divisional round, in January of 1994.

The temp at kickoff was -4.

Did you test them? Were they filled inside or outside?

[better days]

In fact, I don't recall any deflation with the footballs that day we beat the Raiders in the Divisional round, in January of 1994.

The temp at kickoff was -4.

I heard on WGR this morning that if it was 70 degrees where the ball was filled, the temp would have to drop to -17 degrees to lose that much air pressure.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I heard on WGR this morning that if it was 70 degrees where the ball was filled, the temp would have to drop to -17 degrees to lose that much air pressure.

And if they filled it with warmer air, which is not against the rules?

[Joe Fo Sho]

And if they filled it with warmer air, which is not against the rules?

What's the exact wording in the rule book about this?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

And if they filled it with warmer air, which is not against the rules?

The rules state what the pressure is supposed to be during the game. If they are setting the balls up to intentionally deflate during that time, it's still a violation of the rule. And it would be inconsistent with their statements to the media.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

What's the exact wording in the rule book about this?

I posted a link to the rulebook a page or so back. There is more information in the Game Operations Manual, but I haven't found that posted online.

[CommissarSpartacus]

The rules state what the pressure is supposed to be during the game.

Are you sure this is what they state?

It seems the balls are required to be a certain pressure when they are last checked before they are sequestered.

If the balls are required to be a certain pressure DURING the game, then they should be checked immediately after. like jockeys or F1 drivers.

Are they?

Or is this the first time in the history of the NFL that it's become an issue?

[better days]

Are you sure this is what they state?

It seems the balls are required to be a certain pressure when they are last checked before they are sequestered.

If the balls are required to be a certain pressure DURING the game, then they should be checked immediately after. like jockeys or F1 drivers.

Are they?

Or is this the first time in the history of the NFL that it's become an issue?

Well, this is the first time it became an issue because it is the first time a team was caught CHEATING by letting air out of the ball.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Well, this is the first time it became an issue because it is the first time a team was caught CHEATING by letting air out of the ball.

They haven't been "caught" doing anything other than kicking the crap out of the Colts.

They have only been ACCUSED of something.

Let me ask a question - if Tom does this all the time and it's SOOOOO noticeable, how come it's taken over a do2en years and at least 200 games for SOMEONE TO ****ING NOTICE?

[better days]

They haven't been "caught" doing anything other than kicking the crap out of the Colts.

They have only been ACCUSED of something.

Let me ask a question - if Tom does this all the time and it's SOOOOO noticeable, how come it's taken over a do2en years and at least 200 games for SOMEONE TO ****ING NOTICE?

NO, 11 of 12 balls were found to be DEFLATED.

ONLY people associated with the CHEATERS had access to those balls.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Are you sure this is what they state?

I posted the rule itself and a link to the full rulebook.


It seems the balls are required to be a certain pressure when they are last checked before they are sequestered.

If the balls are required to be a certain pressure DURING the game, then they should be checked immediately after. like jockeys or F1 drivers.

They probably should have been, but it was another loophole in the oversight that the Patriots exploited.


Let me ask a question - if Tom does this all the time and it's SOOOOO noticeable, how come it's taken over a do2en years and at least 200 games for SOMEONE TO ****ING NOTICE?

No one said he's been doing it his entire career. If anything, its more likely he'd only need to do this later in his career when he aged.

Also, as has been noted, only the Patriots handle the footballs at any length after the test. The opposing team uses its own footballs. Indeed, the one who noticed on the Colts was the equipment manager, who only got to handle the ball after DQwell Jackson handed it to him following an INT.

[Bill Cody]

NO, 11 of 12 balls were found to be DEFLATED.

ONLY people associated with the CHEATERS had access to those balls.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/could-the-nfl-be-covering-for-its-officials-with-deflategate/ar-AA8w0YH?ocid=iehp

I'm not so sure about this. People can hate Brady, hate Bellichick all they want but most don't assume them to be stupid. Having a ball boy unzip a bag and let air out of 2 dozen balls in front of 70,000 people and over 30 cameras strikes me as about as risky as a bank robbery. Sorry but I'm not a lemming and I don't buy it. The reward is small and the risk is off the charts. Personally I think they presented a bunch of balls that were low to some degree to the ref and the ref may have used a gauge on a few, felt the rest and threw them in the bag. And the NFL is complicit in this problem. As John Riggins said the other day "if the pressure is so important why does the league not secure the balls after inspection?"

[notacon]

It's like you guys have never held a football in your hands.

First, the physics of heated and cooled air.

What happens to the inflation level of your tires in the winter? Cold air gets denser, so if you inlate the ball in a 75 degree room, then have them outside in 50 degree weather, what's going to happen to them? Guess what?

Second, footballs are a leather sac that's inflated with a steel hypodermic through a rubber ring in the surface. There is no cork or cap, just the rubber pressed together. Now, if a ton of flesh repeatedly lands on the ball, compressing it, guess what's gonna happen? Air gets expelled through the rubber ring.

If the Pats set the hot air inflation levels (and I believe there is no rule about filling the balls with hot air) at bare minimum when the balls are sequestered, it's only reasonable that the balls, after cooling down and being used all game would test lower than the minimum. But there is no rule stating how much air the ball has in it after the game, just before the game.

I have no doubt that Brady gives instructions to fill the balls with hot air to the minim,um pressure before the game. It's called preparation.

And just because the Pats balls were found under pressure AFTER the game does not in any way prove they were doctored.

The NFL has only themselves to blame for this. If they think it's a concern, they can easily install procedures.

But bringing this up NOW, after the balls had 2ERO to do with the Colts getting thrashed just indicates how much Roger Goodell hates the Patriots and wants to shift the blame for a disastrous season, corporation-wise, on to the Patriots.

Spygate was battle between Goodell and the Patriots, who felt that the NFL, in putting in a no taping rule after Eric Mangini went to Goodell and complained, was conducting a vendetta against the club, so they DELIBERATELY BAITED Goodelll into making it an issue, and even though they were fined (they could care less), they shoved a perfect season into Goodell's face.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is a setup by Goodell and he knew all along they planned to pull this on the Patriots.

Goodell gets his revenge by poisoning a possible Patriots Superbowl victory.

Of course you guys all WANT the Patriots to be guilty of something so stupid and buy into it right away because you hate the Patriots.

This is the essence of truthiness. It may not be true but it FEELS like it should be true, so let's all believe it....

Well...your premise about "cold air gets denser" and balls having "no cork or cap"...etc...etc... is all wrong.

The Deflategate Rundown (http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/)



This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated. I am told reliably that:


The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.



All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.



All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours. There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human


Yes, I believe that Peter King has much better connections in the league than you or anyone else here, and I bet a dime to a dollar you do not personally know nor have you talked to one NFL player, official or league employee....ever. Nor do they know you. Peter King talks to all of them, and is known on a first name basis throughout the NFL.

The idea that the Pats did not "cheat" is without question. They cheated. Period.

You can go around in circles all you want saying that it didn't matter and all your other suppositions and guess as to what Goodell is thinking and who hates the Pats....

It's all bull****, and you know it.

If one team does not play according to the rules, especially with something as important as how the most important object ON the field performs...it matters....A LOT!!!

No one will ever be able to determine the degree of difference this difference in balls makes. It could be HUGE and it could be minimal.

But, THAT'S THE POINT. Rules ensure that the game is competed with the quality of play, not the difference equipment.

Every single Pats victory is now in question. It's a simple question.

Did the Pats win "fair and square"??? The undeniable answer is NO!

[notacon]

Oh....this whole problem is the result of the NFL lax ball handling procedures.

This will unquestionably be changed after this systematic cheating by the Pats (maybe more teams...but, I doubt it) has been uncovered.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Well...your premise about "cold air gets denser" and balls having "no cork or cap"...etc...etc... is all wrong.

The Deflategate Rundown (http://mmqb.si.com/2015/01/23/deflategate-patriots-super-bowl-xlix/)


:rofl:

PETER KING is your "expert"? How does being a draftboard guru make him a ****ing expert on this?

Let's deconstruct what he says, okay?


This is significant, because it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated.

Anyone that starts an argument by pimping it's "significance" up front and announcing his conclusion before he staes his case is gilding the lily. Pete's bias is showing...


I am told reliably that:

I'm sure you are. By NFL sources, right? This means Pete has been chosen to get the message out...


The 12 footballs used in the first half for New England, and the 12 footballs used by the Colts, all left the officials’ locker room before the game at the prescribed pressure level of between 12.5 pounds per square inch and 13.5 psi.

And I'm sure that all the Pats balls were at 12.5 exactly. Cheaters!


All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge at halftime. I am told either 11 or 12 of New England’s footballs (ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported it was 11, and I hear it could have been all 12) had at least two pounds less pressure in them. All 12 Indianapolis footballs were at the prescribed level.

Which means the Indy balls could have come out at 13.5, lost a pound and still be fine.

The Pats balls lost a pound like Indy's balls plus another pound as the balls cooled.


All 24 footballs were checked by pressure gauge after the game. All 24 checked at the correct pressure

Of course they were. They were filled to the same pressure, not a pound different and both with ambient air.


—which is one of the last pieces of the puzzle the league needed to determine with certainty that something fishy happened with the Patriots footballs, because the Colts’ balls stayed correctly inflated for the nearly four hours.

And thus this conclusion is 100% wrong...


There had been reports quoting atmospheric experts that cold weather could deflate footballs. But if the Patriots’ balls were all low, and the Colts’ balls all legit, that quashes that theory.

No, it doesn't, as I have shown.

This is all just sour grapes bull****.


The conclusion: There is little doubt the New England footballs were tampered with by a human

My conclusion? Pete WANTS the Pats to be guilty. So do you, as exhibited shamefully in the rest of your post, which is just drama queen haterism.

[harmonkoz]

:rofl:
PETER KING is your "expert"? How does being a draftboard guru make him a ****ing expert on this?
Let's deconstruct what he says, okay?
Anyone that starts an argument by pimping it's "significance" up front and announcing his conclusion before he staes his case is gilding the lily. Pete's bias is showing...
...This is all just sour grapes bull****...
...My conclusion? Pete WANTS the Pats to be guilty. So do you, as exhibited shamefully in the rest of your post, which is just drama queen haterism.

I am pretty sure Pete is a Patriots fan, he is from Springfield Mass... Additionally, he has been riding on Belecheats jock for a decade.
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/9/3/1013713/peter-king-red-sox-fan-once-again

[sudzy]

:rofl:

PETER KING is your "expert"? How does being a draftboard guru make him a ****ing expert on this?

Let's deconstruct what he says, okay?

Anyone that starts an argument by pimping it's "significance" up front and announcing his conclusion before he staes his case is gilding the lily. Pete's bias is showing...
I'm sure you are. By NFL sources, right? This means Pete has been chosen to get the message out...
And I'm sure that all the Pats balls were at 12.5 exactly. Cheaters!
Which means the Indy balls could have come out at 13.5, lost a pound and still be fine.
The Pats balls lost a pound like Indy's balls plus another pound as the balls cooled.
Of course they were. They were filled to the same pressure, not a pound different and both with ambient air.
And thus this conclusion is 100% wrong...
No, it doesn't, as I have shown.
This is all just sour grapes bull****.
My conclusion? Pete WANTS the Pats to be guilty. So do you, as exhibited shamefully in the rest of your post, which is just drama queen haterism.

No wonder you hated the Rex hire so much. Your a Pats fan. If I was a Pats fan I would have hated it too.

[Meathead]

why are we still on this crazy thing about somebody deflating the balls? its already been shown that all they have to do is fill them in the sauna. a little experimentation and you could probably predict exact pressure by gametime depending on outside temperature

the fumble stats are the smoking gun. you couldnt get that big of a fumble advantage if you threatened your players with instant death if they lost the ball. they obviously knew exactly what they were doing

[better days]

After the Super Bowl is played, the NFL will tell us all the findings of the investigation.

You can bet your ass a new rule will be in place next year in regards to the football.

Remains to be seen how much or little the Pats* are punished but IMO, Brady & Belicheck should both be suspended next season.

[notacon]

PETER KING is your "expert"? How does being a draftboard guru make him a ****ing expert on this?

Let's deconstruct what he says, okay?

Well...right off the bat you misrepresent what I wrote. Where did I say that Peter King was my "expert" and why are you putting that word in quotation marks that is used to indicate what anther poster is being quoted directly?

What I said is (and THIS is a direct quote) "I believe that Peter King has much better connections in the league than you or anyone else here, and I bet a dime to a dollar you do not personally know nor have you talked to one NFL player, official or league employee....ever. Nor do they know you. Peter King talks to all of them, and is known on a first name basis throughout the NFL."

THAT is why I link to what he writes.



Anyone that starts an argument by pimping it's "significance" up front and announcing his conclusion before he staes his case is gilding the lily. Pete's bias is showing...

Nonsense. I have read Peter King for quite some time, and he is easily the most credible sports writer in the country with the very best connections. He is ruthlessly honest, and regularly goes back and shows when he wrote something in the past that was wrong. A trait you would be wise to mimmic.

Mr. King starts out his "argument" (it really is not an "argument"...that is your word...it is reporting facts, saying that "this is significant" because IT IS SIGNIFICANT!! And he goes on to explain WHY the facts are "significant"...because "it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated."

In fact, the reason that you have to pre-empt the factual reporting of King is because the facts show that your theory was wrong.




I'm sure you are. By NFL sources, right? This means Pete has been chosen to get the message out...


Again, if you have better sources, we would all love to hear them. Now you are just blustering because you have nothing, except stuff that you pulled out of your ass.



And I'm sure that all the Pats balls were at 12.5 exactly. Cheaters!


You just can't accept the truth and facts simply because they go against your faulty premise, huh. Be a man for once and admit you were, and are wrong.

Yes, the Pats cheated.



Which means the Indy balls could have come out at 13.5, lost a pound and still be fine.

The Pats balls lost a pound like Indy's balls plus another pound as the balls cooled.

The rules are quite clear. The Pats broke them, which makes them cheaters, and the Colts did not.



Of course they were. They were filled to the same pressure, not a pound different and both with ambient air.

And thus this conclusion is 100% wrong...

No....you are 100% wrong.



No, it doesn't, as I have shown.

This is all just sour grapes bull****.

No, you have not shown anything except your usual annoying habit of refusing to admit you are wrong even when all the evidence shows you were wrong. So...refuse to admit you were, and are wrong...I don't care. You were still wrong.

The only one suffering from "sour grapes bull****" is you.



My conclusion? Pete WANTS the Pats to be guilty. So do you, as exhibited shamefully in the rest of your post, which is just drama queen haterism.

This is the silliest premise of all. Goodell has a very close relationship with the Pats owner, Bob Kraft. It was Bob Kraft who came put strongly, in public (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ray-rice-controversy-patriots-owner-bob-kraft-says-running-backs-playing-days-are-over/), to defend Goodell when the Rice controversy hit. He was by his side in facing the press to defend him (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2014/09/robert_kraft_backs_goodell).

If anything, Goodell's motivation would be 180 degrees opposite.

Listen, if you want to defend the Pats for cheating, now and the last time they were caught stealing signs, that's your business. I criticize the Pats, not because they are the Pats, but because they have damaged the integrity of the game. I don't care what team was found to do this cheating, my message would be the same.

Your argument is nonsense.

[better days]

Well...right off the bat you misrepresent what I wrote. Where did I say that Peter King was my "expert" and why are you putting that word in quotation marks that is used to indicate what anther poster is being quoted directly?

What I said is (and THIS is a direct quote) "I believe that Peter King has much better connections in the league than you or anyone else here, and I bet a dime to a dollar you do not personally know nor have you talked to one NFL player, official or league employee....ever. Nor do they know you. Peter King talks to all of them, and is known on a first name basis throughout the NFL."

THAT is why I link to what he writes.



Nonsense. I have read Peter King for quite some time, and he is easily the most credible sports writer in the country with the very best connections. He is ruthlessly honest, and regularly goes back and shows when he wrote something in the past that was wrong. A trait you would be wise to mimmic.

Mr. King starts out his "argument" (it really is not an "argument"...that is your word...it is reporting facts, saying that "this is significant" because IT IS SIGNIFICANT!! And he goes on to explain WHY the facts are "significant"...because "it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated."

In fact, the reason that you have to pre-empt the factual reporting of King is because the facts show that your theory was wrong.




Again, if you have better sources, we would all love to hear them. Now you are just blustering because you have nothing, except stuff that you pulled out of your ass.



You just can't accept the truth and facts simply because they go against your faulty premise, huh. Be a man for once and admit you were, and are wrong.

Yes, the Pats cheated.



The rules are quite clear. The Pats broke them, which makes them cheaters, and the Colts did not.



No....you are 100% wrong.



No, you have not shown anything except your usual annoying habit of refusing to admit you are wrong even when all the evidence shows you were wrong. So...refuse to admit you were, and are wrong...I don't care. You were still wrong.

The only one suffering from "sour grapes bull****" is you.



This is the silliest premise of all. Goodell has a very close relationship with the Pats owner, Bob Kraft. It was Bob Kraft who came put strongly, in public (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ray-rice-controversy-patriots-owner-bob-kraft-says-running-backs-playing-days-are-over/), to defend Goodell when the Rice controversy hit. He was by his side in facing the press to defend him (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2014/09/robert_kraft_backs_goodell).

If anything, Goodell's motivation would be 180 degrees opposite.

Listen, if you want to defend the Pats for cheating, now and the last time they were caught stealing signs, that's your business. I criticize the Pats, not because they are the Pats, but because they have damaged the integrity of the game. I don't care what team was found to do this cheating, my message would be the same.

Your argument is nonsense.

And on WGR, someone debunked the heated air theory.

It would take over 30 hours to deflate the ball just ONE psi if the air was 115 degrees that inflated the ball.

[coastal]

Lmao... maybe the pats are left wingers and the whiners are all right wingers.

Btw Putin has Kraft's Super Bowl ring. Considering that Spartacus is Putin's chief internet apologist, it stands to reason where Sparty's loyalties lie.

something stinks and it isn't the bad air from deflated footballs.

[swiper]

Lmao... maybe the pats are left wingers and the whiners are all right wingers.

Btw Putin has Kraft's Super Bowl ring. Considering that Spartacus is Putin's chief internet apologist, it stands to reason where Sparty's loyalties lie.

something stinks and it isn't the bad air from deflated footballs.

I just let one fly. Pardon me.

http://www.picgifs.com/graphics/f/farting/graphics-farting-412095.gif

[CommissarSpartacus]

I am pretty sure Pete is a Patriots fan, he is from Springfield Mass... Additionally, he has been riding on Belecheats jock for a decade.
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2009/9/3/1013713/peter-king-red-sox-fan-once-again

Okay, let's amend it.

YOU want the Pats to be guilty and Peter King lacks the guts to go against the howling mob by suggesting they may be wrong.

Guys like Peter King aren't fans of anything other than their bank accounts.

[chris66]

Okay, let's amend it.

YOU want the Pats to be guilty and Peter King lacks the guts to go against the howling mob by suggesting they may be wrong.

Guys like Peter King aren't fans of anything other than their bank accounts.

I dont know why you bother. These guys had their minds made up monday.

If the nfl exonerates the pats. They will still cry foul

[CommissarSpartacus]

Well...right off the bat you misrepresent what I wrote. Where did I say that Peter King was my "expert" and why are you putting that word in quotation marks that is used to indicate what anther poster is being quoted directly?

Where did you say it? Read on...


What I said is (and THIS is a direct quote) "I believe that Peter King has much better connections in the league than you or anyone else here, and I bet a dime to a dollar you do not personally know nor have you talked to one NFL player, official or league employee....ever. Nor do they know you. Peter King talks to all of them, and is known on a first name basis throughout the NFL."

See? He's your "expert". He went to Football Pundit U and I didn't so what do I know, huh? Ever heard of the Appeal to Expertise? Guess what it is?


THAT is why I link to what he writes.

For his "supposed" expertise...


Nonsense. I have read Peter King for quite some time, and he is easily the most credible sports writer in the country with the very best connections. He is ruthlessly honest, and regularly goes back and shows when he wrote something in the past that was wrong. A trait you would be wise to mimmic.

"I trust a man who's proved many times he's willing to admit when he's been wrong more than I trust a man I've never been able to prove has been wrong!"

Makes total sense. Really. Anyone who has never admitted to being wrong can't be trusted, even if he's never been wrong, because I'm wrong sometimes, and no one can be smarter than ME!" LOL!


Mr. King starts out his "argument" (it really is not an "argument"...that is your word...it is reporting facts, saying that "this is significant" because IT IS SIGNIFICANT!!

Saying it's significant is coming to a conclusion, and a set of facts followed by a conclusion is an argument. And I sure hope you understand that an argument is something different than bickering (God, I can't believe I even have to explain this)...Stating your conclusion before making your case is disingenuous, ie pimping your argument.


And he goes on to explain WHY the facts are "significant"...because "it takes weather-as-a-factor out of the possible reasons why New England’s footballs could have lost air while the balls on Indianapolis’ sidelines would have stayed fully inflated."

In fact, the reason that you have to pre-empt the factual reporting of King is because the facts show that your theory was wrong.

I explained quite clearly why Pete's conclusions are not warranted by the facts he presented. Facts followed by a conclusion may be an argument, but it doesn't mean it's a valid one. The conclusion needs to make sense. In Pete's case it doesn't, but it doesn't stop him from saying it does, because he knows guys like you WANT TO BELIEVE the Pats are cheaters.


Again, if you have better sources, we would all love to hear them. Now you are just blustering because you have nothing, except stuff that you pulled out of your ass.

Oooo, Pete has "sources" and I don't. Half a century of watching football and a do2en years writing about it is MEANINGLESS! Because Pete has SOURCES within the NFL!

I'm so ashamed of disagreeing with him. What was I thinking?


You just can't accept the truth and facts simply because they go against your faulty premise, huh. Be a man for once and admit you were, and are wrong.

For the umpteenth time, I'm told I have to admit I was wrong to prove something to the people that are consistently wrong.

Sorry, not gonna do it.

But is is interesting seeing you resort to right-wing debate tactics - tactics YOU quite rightly reject out of hand when they're used on you in the politics forum. What is it about football that triggers the Mr Jekyll in you?


Yes, the Pats cheated.

Why is it that Americans think it's totally okay to believe some things without evidence and not others?

Saddm has WMDs. I bet Peter King thought so too...


The rules are quite clear. The Pats broke them, which makes them cheaters, and the Colts did not.

The rules are the rules and nothing I've seen so far indicates they broke them. If there was, we wouldn't be having this conversation, now would we?


No....you are 100% wrong.

I provided an explanation for my position, you are just making a declaration without an explanation of why I'm wrong. Gotta do better...


No, you have not shown anything except your usual annoying habit of refusing to admit you are wrong even when all the evidence shows you were wrong. So...refuse to admit you were, and are wrong...I don't care. You were still wrong.

The only one suffering from "sour grapes bull****" is you.

"Wah, wah, wah, why won't you let ME win for once? It's NOT FAIR!"


This is the silliest premise of all. Goodell has a very close relationship with the Pats owner, Bob Kraft. It was Bob Kraft who came put strongly, in public (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ray-rice-controversy-patriots-owner-bob-kraft-says-running-backs-playing-days-are-over/), to defend Goodell when the Rice controversy hit. He was by his side in facing the press to defend him (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2014/09/robert_kraft_backs_goodell).

:rofl: "How can you say they're enemies when Kraft supports Goodell" Duh. Goodell is the COMMISSIONER of the league and it demeans the league if the Commissioner looks bad. Kraft's allegiance is to his team and the league. If that means he has to shake Goodell's hand and pat him on the back once in a while, he'll do it. Doesn't mean Kraft doesn't think Goodell's a snake...


If anything, Goodell's motivation would be 180 degrees opposite.

Nope.


Listen, if you want to defend the Pats for cheating, now and the last time they were caught stealing signs, that's your business.

If you refuse to acknowledge the reality of what happened with Spygate because you hate the Pats, you are just revealing your agenda to those of us that DO KNOW what happened.


I criticize the Pats, not because they are the Pats, but because they have damaged the integrity of the game.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

(catching my breath....)

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!


I don't care what team was found to do this cheating, my message would be the same.

I guess as a salesman, you have experience saying things like this with a straight face, huh?


Your argument is nonsense.

And yours is an embarrassment, but heay, you already have Losmania on your resume, so it's not gonna make a significant blot on your copybook.

We've seen what you're capable of when it comes to issues of love and hate, haven't we?

[notacon]

Jesus Sparky...so much effort just to cover up that you are so wrong.

Your obsession tells the whole story.

Your argument is is for **** and I think you know it.

[Discotrish]

It's a Patriot Conspiracy. No need to believe the "official" story on this one!

https://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0sjyvTvmD1rqfhi2o1_400.gif

Patti

[Strongman]

Jets connection appearing in Deflategate probe

As the Deflategate investigation continues, scrutiny on the Patriots will soon lead to questions about what prompted the investigation in the first place.

Who suspected subterfuge? Who pushed the league to gather evidence? Was the motivation simply a principled, “integrity of the game” platform or was it an attempt to settle old scores?

Earlier this week, we pointed out the possible motivation of the Ravens and Colts. It’s all laid out here.

Those are two of the Patriots most bitter conference rivals, having played against the Patriots in a total of nine playoff games since 2003 with the Patriots going 6-3 in those games.

The only other rival with similar bitterness? The New York Jets.

The NFL man on-site to start the investigation in the AFC Championship was Mike Kensil. He is the NFL Vice President of Game Operations. You may remember him as the gentleman John Harbaugh took his frustration out on during the Super Bowl power outage in 2012. Harbaugh later apologized. He does that a lot.

Before rising to the league level, Kensil was the Jets director of operations for nearly 20 years. His tenure overlapped Bill Parcells (and Bill Belichick’s) time with the Jets and he would have been part of the Jets front office incensed by Belichick’s 2000 resignation as Jets head coach.

Kensil’s tenure with the Jets ended in 2006, the same year Belichick disciple Eric Mangini became head coach of the Jets.

Multiple sources have indicated that Kensil is the driving force behind the investigation and that his interest in deflated balls did not begin in January but actually began earlier in the year.

Kensil’s professional reputation is strong and people I’ve spoken to have described him as having strong integrity.

That Jets connection, though, certainly hints at a preexisting judgment of Belichick and the Patriots that could, conceivably, be a motivating factor in the league’s dogged pursuit.

Just how much do the Jets revile New England?

Former Jets special teams coach Mike Westhoff unloaded on New England in a phone interview with the Toronto Sun this week, saying, “If it’s anybody that walks the edge on the rules, it’s these guys,” Westhoff said. “Sometimes they remind me a little bit of Enron — they’re always the smartest guys in the room, until some day maybe they’re not. That’s how I feel about them.”

Westhoff was the Jets’ special teams coach from 2001 to 2012.

He asked, “Did they do it? I honestly don’t think they did. To tell you the truth, I’m not so sure they’re not sitting around today thinking, ‘I wish we’d thought this up,’ knowing them."

Westhoff doesn’t like even helping New England in this way, however.

“As much as I hate to, I’m going to defend them,” Westhoff said. “And trust me, I hate to defend them. (Spygate) was only a part of it. The number of things that were like this? There’s only a handful of them that have been made public.

“Trust me, what I’m tellin’ you. There are quite a few others. Clock violations. You can go on and on. There’s a whole s---load.”

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/jets-connection-appearing-deflategate-probe

[SmokeShowin]

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10406993_10152574613598038_7053663788663438916_n.jpg?oh=6a11ae7abf262a8c97f0a667b3d697ba&oe=55661E91

[Strongman]

More evidence of Patriots cheating at the AFC Championship game? The game clock goes from 5 second back to 25 seconds.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/P8wfw7D8ECM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[gebobs]

Besides the response that showed how Mark Brunell didn't laugh this off. Here's another link that shows you how stupid your argument is, this time from Aikman.

Please. Get a quote from Kelly Holcomb and then we can talk.

[gebobs]

I heard on WGR this morning that if it was 70 degrees where the ball was filled, the temp would have to drop to -17 degrees to lose that much air pressure.
The calculation is pretty easy. P2 = P1*T2/T1 with temperature in kelvins. I haven't seen what the pressure were of the underinflated balls, but the acceptable range is just 1 psi. If the balls were inflated at the minimum when provided to the officials ahead of time, any temperature shift would put them under. A temperature drop from 70 deg F to 35 deg F is going to decrease pressure by about 1 psi.

And as shiva said, they could fill them with warmer air to amplify the effect although it couldn't be too warm that it would be noticeable. Of course, this is just another skirting of the rules by the Patriots. Technically, maybe they didn't break the rules, but they are skirting the intent. Or maybe they are breaking the rules and don't care. $25k per ball is nothing. The benefit outweighs the risk.

Obviously, allowing the teams to provide balls without adequate controls is a mistake.

What's with a lot of commentary saying the balls are "weighed" to check them? What the heck would weighing do? Do these folks think PSI is a weight?

The stats article on fumbles is interesting. They fumble less per play than all but one team, the Falcons, who play at least 9 games a year indoors. In fact, all the indoor teams fare pretty well overall. And there's New England right up there at the top of the list with them. Curious.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Technically, maybe they didn't break the rules, but they are skirting the intent.

Is it the Patriots responsibility to consider the "intent" of the rules?

[gebobs]

I posted a link to the rulebook a page or so back. There is more information in the Game Operations Manual, but I haven't found that posted online.
I went through each page and couldn't find it. Sorry if I missed it. Can you post again?

[gebobs]

Is it the Patriots responsibility to consider the "intent" of the rules?

Responsibility? I think they purposefully look for opportunities to do just that.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Responsibility? I think they purposefully look for opportunities to do just that.

That's not answering the question. I'm not asking what the Pats think, I'm asking what you think...

[gebobs]

That's not answering the question. I'm not asking what the Pats think, I'm asking what you think...

Yes, I think there is always a certain expectation of that as regards sportsmanship. I deal with this sort of in my job too. We provide specifications to suppliers and customers provide them to us. If there is some ambiguity, one doesn't get a free pass to skirt the rules. It is clear in quality standards that one must take intent into consideration.

Each 5 degrees of temperature change is going to drop the pressure by ~1%. If they fill the balls to the minimum pressure at room temperature and the pressure drops a smidge due to the slight drop in temperature, I don't think anyone could fault them for it. That's on the NFL for giving up control of the balls and not clearly providing standards. If however they are filling them at 110 deg F, that would be a more deliberate effort to skirt the rules just as it would be if they filled them with argon for some reason.

Take the example of oxygen doping in endurance sports such as cycling and running. There were no rules against it for years. People will, and still do, train at high altitude to gain a competitive advantage. But then some decided to take shortcuts to give them an advantage without any effort with doping.

And if the Patriots are purposefully loopholes to an an advantage, that's contrary to good sportsmanship which stands on the basis of level playing fields. And it seems to me that they are constantly looking for just such opportunities to give them that edge. Not an edge in their competitiveness through practice and ability, but through subterfuge.

[better days]

Yes, I think there is always a certain expectation of that as regards sportsmanship. I deal with this sort of in my job too. We provide specifications to suppliers and customers provide them to us. If there is some ambiguity, one doesn't get a free pass to skirt the rules. It is clear in quality standards that one must take intent into consideration.

Each 5 degrees of temperature change is going to drop the pressure by ~1%. If they fill the balls to the minimum pressure at room temperature and the pressure drops a smidge due to the slight drop in temperature, I don't think anyone could fault them for it. That's on the NFL for giving up control of the balls and not clearly providing standards. If however they are filling them at 110 deg F, that would be a more deliberate effort to skirt the rules just as it would be if they filled them with argon for some reason.

Take the example of oxygen doping in endurance sports such as cycling and running. There were no rules against it for years. People will, and still do, train at high altitude to gain a competitive advantage. But then some decided to take shortcuts to give them an advantage without any effort with doping.

And if the Patriots are purposefully loopholes to an an advantage, that's contrary to good sportsmanship which stands on the basis of level playing fields. And it seems to me that they are constantly looking for just such opportunities to give them that edge. Not an edge in their competitiveness through practice and ability, but through subterfuge.

It is as I said, the Patriots have a culture of CHEATING on that team.

And from Kraft on down, they have no regard for sportsmanship, welcoming SCUM to the team if they think it will help them win, from Haynesworth to Moss to Hernandez to Blount.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Yes, I think there is always a certain expectation of that as regards sportsmanship. I deal with this sort of in my job too. We provide specifications to suppliers and customers provide them to us. If there is some ambiguity, one doesn't get a free pass to skirt the rules. It is clear in quality standards that one must take intent into consideration.

Sportsmanship? I don't see anything unsporting about this. Anyone with a brain can figure that if you fill balls with warm air to the minimum, then take them outside into colder air, THEY WILL DEFLATE and thus be LESS than the minimum PSI. If the NFL didn't write a rule saying that the balls MUST test at 12.5 minimum at the beginning, half time and ends of games, then it ceases to be a problem. But that's not the Patriots problem. Don't hate them for figuring out a way to get an edge that ISN'T AGAINST THE RULES.

It's pathetic...

[Discotrish]

Maybe the Pats should spike the opposing team's water bottles with a sedative. Or a laxative.

Does the NFL have a specific "rule" against this?

Patti

[Strongman]

Yes. There's a whole field of study devoted to this called ethics. In football, ethics fall under sportsmanship.

The fact that the NFL has awards for sportsmanship and not gamesmanship, should clue you in.

[Discotrish]

Sportsmanship? I don't see anything unsporting about this. Anyone with a brain can figure that if you fill balls with warm air to the minimum, then take them outside into colder air, THEY WILL DEFLATE and thus be LESS than the minimum PSI. If the NFL didn't write a rule saying that the balls MUST test at 12.5 minimum at the beginning, half time and ends of games, then it ceases to be a problem. But that's not the Patriots problem. Don't hate them for figuring out a way to get an edge that ISN'T AGAINST THE RULES.

It's pathetic...

You should hire yourself out to teams who might want to try complicated ways of cheating.

Turns out Occam's Razor was probably right all along.

Patti

[CommissarSpartacus]

...The fact that the NFL has awards for sportsmanship...

They do? is that a consolation pri2e for losers?

[Discotrish]

They do? is that a consolation pri2e for losers?

Not only were your overly complicated theories wrong, but you've managed to acquire an unnecessary taint.

Hopefully this whole subject matter has been fun for you (in a very theoretical, and as it turns out, purely fictional way), but it hasn't served you well.

Patti

[YardRat]

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing

field.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Not only were your overly complicated theories wrong, but you've managed to acquire an unnecessary taint.

Hopefully this whole subject matter has been fun for you (in a very theoretical, and as it turns out, purely fictional way), but it hasn't served you well.

Patti

Your concern trolling is duly noted.

I'll have to live with the stigma...

[CommissarSpartacus]

Oh, BTW Patti...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12211954/nfl-name-sportsmanship-award-honor-art-rooney-sr

NFL award in honor of Art Rooney Sr.
Updated: January 22, 2015,

The NFL will name an annual award recognizing outstanding sportsmanship on the field in honor of the founding owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers, Art Rooney Sr.

The winner selected by the vote of the players will be announced at the "NFL Honors" show on Jan. 31 on NBC, the night before the Super Bowl.

The award established this year is determined by a vote of NFL players. The award will be presented each year to an NFL player who demonstrates on the field the qualities of sportsmanship, respect for opponents, and integrity in competition. He will receive a $25,000 donation from the NFL Foundation to a charity of his choice.

Each NFL team nominated one player during the season.

The finalists, featuring four players from each conference, were Carolina linebacker Thomas Davis, Arizona wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald, Minnesota linebacker Chad Greenway, Detroit wide receiver Calvin Johnson, Pittsburgh safety Troy Polamalu, New England wide receiver-special teamer Matthew Slater, Kansas City quarterback Alex Smith and Denver defensive end DeMarcus Ware. Current players voted on the finalists on the 2015 Pro Bowl ballot on Dec. 19.

Rooney founded the Steelers in 1933 and was inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1964.



Gee, it's not like this is a blatant PR move or anything.

After all, the NFL's rep is above reproach and all....

:rofl:

[Discotrish]

Your concern trolling is duly noted.

I'll have to live with the stigma...

I'm not concerned for you. You can take care of yourself.

You ARE proving something with your limp arguments, just not what you think you're proving.

Patti

[CommissarSpartacus]

I'm not concerned for you. You can take care of yourself.

You ARE proving something with your limp arguments, just not what you think you're proving.

Patti

Oh, I am proving something, but it may not be what you think I'm trying to prove.

There's a larger issue here that you, like so many of your fellow Americans, don't recogni2e.

So I illustrate it.

Why do you think I don't whine about you like my fellow American lefties?

You guys keep forgetting where I come from. We're different.

[gebobs]

Sportsmanship? I don't see anything unsporting about this. Anyone with a brain can figure that if you fill balls with warm air to the minimum, then take them outside into colder air, THEY WILL DEFLATE and thus be LESS than the minimum PSI.
Right. And such a ball is against the rules. Knowingly pressurizing such that it will fall out of spec is contrary to the rules and sportsmanship.


If the NFL didn't write a rule saying that the balls MUST test at 12.5 minimum at the beginning, half time and ends of games, then it ceases to be a problem. Don't hate them for figuring out a way to get an edge that ISN'T AGAINST THE RULES.

The rule states the ball must be 12.5 - 13.5 psi. Ity doesn't say just at testing before the game. It doesn't specify anything. As such, you can assume that they mean the ball is to be within spec ALL the time.

[coastal]

Oh, I am proving something, but it may not be what you think I'm trying to prove.

There's a larger issue here that you, like so many of your fellow Americans, don't recogni2e.

So I illustrate it.

Why do you think I don't whine about you like my fellow American lefties?

You guys keep forgetting where I come from. We're different.get a new lesson old man.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Right. And such a ball is against the rules. Knowingly pressurizing such that it will fall out of spec is contrary to the rules and sportsmanship.

No, such a ball is NOT against the rules. Period. Ther rule is the ball has to be 12.5 to 13.5 WHEN TESTED before the game. Any moron writing the rules should know that a ball filled INSIDE and measured INSIDE, if taken out and played with in colder temperatures, will LOSE PRESSURE and thus be under the 12.5 bottom limit. So, for sure the NFL knew that all their cold weather games stood a good chance of being played with balls below spec. But, they didn't care until now. Why? Because they didn't think it was a big deal PLUS watching people fumble, drop passes and miss receivers IS BORING. I for one, am in favor of making the ball easier to throw and hang on to...


The rule states the ball must be 12.5 - 13.5 psi. Ity doesn't say just at testing before the game. It doesn't specify anything. As such, you can assume that they mean the ball is to be within spec ALL the time.

Link please.

[CommissarSpartacus]

get a new lesson old man.

Why? What's wrong with this one? Am I blocking the sun from beating down on the shining house on the hill?

[gebobs]

No, such a ball is NOT against the rules. Period. Ther rule is the ball has to be 12.5 to 13.5 WHEN TESTED before the game. Any moron writing the rules should know that a ball filled INSIDE and measured INSIDE, if taken out and played with in colder temperatures, will LOSE PRESSURE and thus be under the 12.5 bottom limit. So, for sure the NFL knew that all their cold weather games stood a good chance of being played with balls below spec. But, they didn't care until now. Why? Because they didn't think it was a big deal PLUS watching people fumble, drop passes and miss receivers IS BORING. I for one, am in favor of making the ball easier to throw and hang on to...

Link please.

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf


The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case
(natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight
shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches;
weight, 14 to 15 ounces.

Nothing about "when tested".

Regarding this: "Any moron writing the rules should know that a ball filled INSIDE and measured INSIDE, if taken out and played with in colder temperatures, will LOSE PRESSURE and thus be under the 12.5 bottom limit. So, for sure the NFL knew that all their cold weather games stood a good chance of being played with balls below spec."

The officials should account for temperature differences, if any. If they don't, the measurements are worthless.


the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the
ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

This certainly wasn't followed.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Nothing about "when tested".


That's a given as the only way to confirm the balls conform are to test them.

And the teams have no control over the balls after they've been turned over. If they want to institute half time or even random checks, if they find a ball has lost pressure, they should just top it up.

Also the fact that there is no penalty mentioned for balls that non-conform indicates that the rule was more for uniformity rather than to prevent a competitive advantage.

Here's another question - if one ball is noticed as being underinflated, who was the bright boy that had the suspicion All the balls were underinflated. At that point, they had no reason to suspect they were....

[gebobs]

That's a given as the only way to confirm the balls conform are to test them.
OK, then deflating them is legal. No need for any crazy hot air hypothesis.


And the teams have no control over the balls after they've been turned over.
Except that wasn't the way this was handled. The Patriots ball guy had control of the balls after testing.


Also the fact that there is no penalty mentioned for balls that non-conform indicates that the rule was more for uniformity rather than to prevent a competitive advantage.
Is it ok then if the intent is uniformity but a team abuses it for competitive advantage?

Anyhoo, it's a $25,000 fine. Fines likely have their own section in the book since they are changed more frequently.

[Discotrish]

Maybe next year we'll have teams trying to blind the opposition with laser pointers.

If there isn't a rule against that, I mean.

https://i.imgflip.com/gx7rz.jpg

Patti

[harmonkoz]

You guys keep forgetting where I come from. We're different.

The van down by the river? You are different alright, in a troll sort of way.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

No, such a ball is NOT against the rules. Period..

So why did the refs remove the under inflated balls when they were checked at halftime?

[CommissarSpartacus]

OK, then deflating them is legal. No need for any crazy hot air hypothesis.

Jim Rome had Jay Feeley on this morning and he said the NFL policy for years was to let the qbs do whatever they want to their own game balls. They were only concerned with pressure with the kicking balls. Personally, as I said before, if the league is going to allow wonder gloves to help receivers catch the ball, I have no problem letting qbs that like a softer ball use one. Sure, drops and fumbles are part of the game, but they'd be part of the game if you used a greased pig for a ball. But no one would watch it, because people won't pay big bux to watch a parade of incompetent boo boos?


Except that wasn't the way this was handled. The Patriots ball guy had control of the balls after testing.

So? Did he take control of them at gunpoint?


Is it ok then if the intent is uniformity but a team abuses it for competitive advantage?

"Abuse" is your word. I see nothing abusive in what they did and I see nothing wrong in seeking a competitive advantage if everyone else has the same opportunity to do it.


Anyhoo, it's a $25,000 fine. Fines likely have their own section in the book since they are changed more frequently.

What's a $25,000 dollar fine?

[CommissarSpartacus]

So why did the refs remove the under inflated balls when they were checked at halftime?

Because they were under. Duh.

Now, do the refs check the ball pressures of every teams game balls at halftime? Or were they tipped off by someone WHO HAS YET TO BE IDENTIFIED?

Why is it that you guys are so nonchalant about the tip factor? Why are none of the haters concerned about who blew the whistle? It's a completely relevant question.

Of course, the reason you are unconcerned about it is because you have absolutely no desire to see the Pats get off, even if they are totally innocent.

[better days]

What's a $25,000 dollar fine?

Well, that fine is for first offenses. As repeat CHEATING offenders, the Pats* should receive much harsher punishment.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Because they were under. Duh.

You just said being under pressure during the game wasn't against the rules.


No, such a ball is NOT against the rules. Period. Ther rule is the ball has to be 12.5 to 13.5 WHEN TESTED before the game.


Now, do the refs check the ball pressures of every teams game balls at halftime?

No


Or were they tipped off by someone WHO HAS YET TO BE IDENTIFIED?

They were tipped off, supposedly by the Colts equipment manager.

Again, why would it matter if the balls being below 12.5 psi was legal under the rules?

[YardRat]

I already posted this once, but I'll do it again...

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field.

[CommissarSpartacus]

You just said being under pressure during the game wasn't against the rules.

And it isn't if the NFL accepts the fact that balls filled to the minimum indoors will lose air pressure, and thus be BELOW the minimum, when the balls are taken outside into a colder environment.

The Pats are only responsible for delivering conforming balls to the ref before the game. What happens to them after that is not their responsibility. How CAN it be?


They were tipped off, supposedly by the Colts equipment manager.

Again, why would it matter if the balls being below 12.5 psi was legal under the rules?

Good question. Don't you think it's relevant who suggested to the refs they should check ALL the balls?

Don't you think it's curious we haven't heard conclusively who instigated this?

[CommissarSpartacus]

I already posted this once, but I'll do it again...

http://static.nfl.com/static/content/public/image/rulebook/pdfs/5_2013_Ball.pdf

It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field.


PLAYABLE. Playable is not a synonym for "conforming to the rules".

[YardRat]

PLAYABLE. Playable is not a synonym for "conforming to the rules".

Yeah, it is. An unplayable ball doesn't conform to the rules.

[coastal]

Btw... the answer to this question is still "yes".

thanks.

[Joe Fo Sho]

PLAYABLE. Playable is not a synonym for "conforming to the rules".

A volleyball is a playable ball.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Yeah, it is. An unplayable ball doesn't conform to the rules.

But a ball that doesn't conform to the rules is not necessarily unplayable.

And the balls were perfectly playable. It wasn't the Pats (who were the ones using the balls) that complained.

They provided balls that conformed when they were supposed to. After that, the balls are the LEAGUE'S responsibility. The problem arose WHILE the balls were in league custody, so why is it the Pats fault?

Seriously, you guys are getting nuttier and nuttier.

Do you guys know how creepy you're starting to sound? Have you not noticed how more and more desperate you've become to try to find SOME legitimate reason to justify this crap?

You ****ed up.

Get over it and move on.

Like I said, this amount of whining about the Pats from fans of a team that is a league wide symbol of stupidity is unseemly.

Makes me embarrassed to be a Bills fan.

[Joe Fo Sho]

But a ball that doesn't conform to the rules is not necessarily unplayable.

Define unplayable then.


They provided balls that conformed when they were supposed to. After that, the balls are the LEAGUE'S responsibility. The problem arose WHILE the balls were in league custody, so why is it the Pats fault?

"We never got caught, so it's OK."

- Every cheater ever


Makes me embarrassed to be a Bills fan.

Are you gonna be OK? We never meant for you to get so emotional.

[feldspar]

But a ball that doesn't conform to the rules is not necessarily unplayable.

And the balls were perfectly playable. It wasn't the Pats (who were the ones using the balls) that complained.

They provided balls that conformed when they were supposed to. After that, the balls are the LEAGUE'S responsibility. The problem arose WHILE the balls were in league custody, so why is it the Pats fault?

Your just making this up as you go along, admit it to yourself.

You don't know what actually happened to explain why the balls were deflated. Try to bend the meaning of words to fit whatever notions you have all you want..."it all depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." I think the rule is pretty clear.

Always trying to find the loophole, aren't you?


Seriously, you guys are getting nuttier and nuttier.

Do you guys know how creepy you're starting to sound? Have you not noticed how more and more desperate you've become to try to find SOME legitimate reason to justify this crap?

The same could be easily said of yourself. You seem a little more obsessed with the subject than just about anyone here...who has posted more about it than you?

AND you don't know exactly what happened as to WHY the balls were underinflated, again.

Talk about desperate...saying things that suggest you are always right, and therefore right this time. Jesus Christ comparisons to yourself. Putting down Americans. C'mon, Sparky.


You ****ed up.

Get over it and move on.

****ed up how? What exactly happened to explain the underinflated balls and provide proof, not just speculation. Because that's what we are talking about here. You can't do that, and you know it.

It looks bad. Breaking the rules is bad...oh, I forgot that you don't feel that way. Well, others DO feel that way. And IF (and I repeat IF) the rules were broken, then punishments are in line. If you agree or disagree, then that's your OPINION. If you disagree, then what's the point of having rules? Right now, you are like a lawyer trying to get your client off on a technicality or loophole.

Here is what Tom Brady told Peter King right before the 2006 season:

"I can tell you there’ve been nights before road games when I have had trouble sleeping because I’m thinking about what kind of footballs I’ll be throwing the next day."


Like I said, this amount of whining about the Pats from fans of a team that is a league wide symbol of stupidity is unseemly.

Makes me embarrassed to be a Bills fan.

Like I said, you don't know what happened anymore than anyone else does at this point. Again, like I said, you are acting like a lawyer trying to get his client off on a technicality or loophole.

Stop being a Bills fan if you are so embarrassed. It won't be the first time you've "switched allegiances," will it? The answer is no, it won't.

Can't wait to see how you'll troll the board and harass the REAL Bills fans about Rex Ryan going into next year.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Define unplayable then.

"We never got caught, so it's OK."

- Every cheater ever

Are you gonna be OK? We never meant for you to get so emotional.

1. There are several fine dictionaries on-line.

2. "We all know the ni&&er raped and murdered that white girl!' ~ Every lynch mob ever...

3. Intentional stupidity in the service of the tribe bothers me, I admit it.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Your just making this up as you go along, admit it to yourself.

You don't know what actually happened to explain why the balls were deflated. Try to bend the meaning of words to fit whatever notions you have all you want..."it all depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." I think the rule is pretty clear.

Always trying to find the loophole, aren't you?

Translation? - "Why won't you let me win?"

I feel your pain...

[upstart]

"I can tell you there’ve been nights before road games when I have had trouble sleeping because I’m thinking about what kind of footballs I’ll be throwing the next day."

LOL

I'm guessing he's talking about his game. Not about 'what kind of footballs' he's using.

Give it a rest and stop cherry picking quotes from 8 years ago.

[feldspar]

Translation? - "Why won't you let me win?"

I feel your pain...

Soundbytes.

Typical.

What an utter hard-on you truly are.

[feldspar]

LOL

I'm guessing he's talking about his game. Not about 'what kind of footballs' he's using.



No, dude.

He's talking about what kind of footballs he's using without a doubt. Kept him up at nights, apparently. He REALLY cares about that...not damning evidence by any measure. Just found it interesting. I always read Peter King's Monday Morning Quarterback.

Here is some more to put the quote in context:

"Brady had been bothered by the inconsistent feel of footballs from game to game. The pre-2006 rule called for 36 official balls, manufactured by Wilson, to be provided to the home team for each outdoor game and 24 for each indoor game, the balls to be available for testing with a pressure gauge by officials two hours before kickoff. The home team and the officials had the option to use league-approved products supplied by Wilson (a bristle brush, a tack cloth and a semihard spongy cube) to rub down the game balls and remove the waxy, slippery sheen that they have when they come out of the box. A few quarterbacks preferred the balls to feel nearly new. Most, like Brady and Manning, want that sheen rubbed off so they can get a better grip and give the ball a broken-in feel.

“Imagine,” Brady told me at the time, “if Derek Jeter were handed a brand-new glove just before the start of every game. Baseball players break in their gloves until they feel perfect to them. It’s ridiculous to play with new footballs. I can tell you there’ve been nights before road games when [B]I have had trouble sleeping because I’m thinking about what kind of footballs I’ll be throwing the next day.”

So after the 2005 season, while having dinner together in Miami Beach, Brady and Manning decided to approach their fellow quarterbacks about petitioning the NFL competition committee to change the rule. Brady proposed that the visiting team have access to a certain number of the allotted game balls—the number turned out to be 12—so it could prepare them the way it wanted; those balls would be stamped with the visiting team’s name and kept on the visitors’ sideline for use when that team was on offense. The remainder of the balls would be prepared by the hosts to their liking, 12 kept on the sideline for use on their drives and the other dozen in reserve in case bad weather created the need for additional balls. The competition committee approved the plan the next month, and it’s been that way ever since.

[Mace]

Assuming for a minute this is serious, you can't disqualify them for marginally underinflated balls even if they did it, it's silly, and as an organiization nothing has even been proven yet. If guilty it costs them a draft pick and a fine, but we're talking marginally underinflated balls, not kneecapping players, poisoning gatorade or rooftop snipers with tranquilizing darts

The Colts were just not an underinflated ball or 10 to being close to competing with them unless they cheated better, and far more comprehensively, and I don't think anyone wants that.

Make sure no one cheats in the Super Bowl. Those are the two best teams and Seattle wins a second no matter. If they don't, it's not going to be because of underinflated balls.

I really really dislike the Pats. But they're a really good team I'd rather have us knock off their pedestal. Teams beat them despite their shenanigans. If we can do it twice a year, who cares what they're doing until they get caught.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to remember the Pats for cheating, I'll remember them for Belichick making us look stupid. So if there is a gripe about them getting there, we can fix that by not letting them, as we once used to, along with Marino and the Dolphins, who were once commonly assumed to be cheating because they regularly beat us like a drum.

Move along and let Seattle beat them. Penalize them if they did something as an organization. Boo hiss, Indy still is not the AFC best, and Baltimore sure isn't, so...

[Joe Fo Sho]

1. There are several fine dictionaries on-line.

Ok, a beach ball is playable. I wonder what air pressure Tom Brady likes his beach balls. Probably less than regulation I'm sure.


2. "We all know the ni&&er raped and murdered that white girl!' ~ Every lynch mob ever...

Right, same thing...


3. Intentional stupidity in the service of the tribe bothers me, I admit it.

Are you going to be OK? You should tell your shrink how it feels when people accuse your favorite team of cheating. Maybe she can suggest a pill or something.

[better days]

LOL

I'm guessing he's talking about his game. Not about 'what kind of footballs' he's using.

Give it a rest and stop cherry picking quotes from 8 years ago.

Talk about a reach.

Brady did not say he was thinking about the throws he would be making the next day, he said he was thinking about what kind of FOOTBALLS he would be throwing the next day.

In other words, would the footballs be too inflated or slick for his liking?

And give it a rest? LOL.

It has only just begun. Wait until the investigation is concluded.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Ok, a beach ball is playable.

Not if you want to play football...


Right, same thing...

A lynch mob is a lynch mob, whether you're stringing up a black man or the Patriots...


Are you going to be OK? You should tell your shrink how it feels when people accuse your favorite team of cheating. Maybe she can suggest a pill or something.

The simple fact is that if one is nicer, more reasonable and more intelligent than the majority, then most people will be meaner, less reasonable and stupider than you are. I learned to deal with this a long time ago.

[Woodman]

I'm hoping Tom Brady runs the ball "himself" without the slide and not out of bounds at least 3 times, that would make things right for me.

[Joe Fo Sho]

But a ball that doesn't conform to the rules is not necessarily unplayable.


Not if you want to play football...

So you say that a ball that doesn't conform to the rules is not necessarily playable, then you say you can't play with a beach ball. Where do you draw the line? Can you explain yourself here or are you just making stuff up again?


The simple fact is that if one is nicer, more reasonable and more intelligent than the majority, then most people will be meaner, less reasonable and stupider than you are. I learned to deal with this a long time ago.

Well I'm glad you're OK. Wouldn't want to hurt that ego.

[CommissarSpartacus]

So you say that a ball that doesn't conform to the rules is not necessarily playable, then you say you can't play with a beach ball. Where do you draw the line? Can you explain yourself here or are you just making stuff up again?

You have it ass backwards. I'm saying that a ball that doesn't conform to the rules is not necessarily UNplayable. And I draw the line at balls that aren't footballs. A beach ball is not a football.

I eagerly await your next inane quibble...


Well I'm glad you're OK. Wouldn't want to hurt that ego.

Don't worry your pretty little head about it.

I've been called worse things by better people.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You have it ass backwards. I'm saying that a ball that doesn't conform to the rules is not necessarily UNplayable. And I draw the line at balls that aren't footballs. A beach ball is not a football.

I eagerly await your next inane quibble...


PLAY BALL!!!


http://d3ckyw89ekir1.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Deflated-NFL-Football.jpg?efa206

[feldspar]

I've been called worse things by better people.

Like those times I called you a hard-on and a douchebag?