Marcia Brady press conference @ 4:15

[harmonkoz]

http://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/Patriotscom-Live-Event/893e7c6e-4efe-4e7e-a3ce-35f284d043a7

or

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/watch-live-tom-brady-press-conference-deflategate (http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/watch-live-tom-brady-press-conference-deflategate)

[casdhf]

Fitting that a dude wearing Uggs will be talking about handling balls

[Joe Fo Sho]

"I will play with any balls anybody wants to give me."

[justasportsfan]

"Welker and I played with soft balls and I miss him"

[harmonkoz]

Hilarious that they did not get rid of that #FLEXBALL logo.

[Strongman]

He's denying all knowledge of how it happened. What a cheating, cowardly b****!

[Strongman]

Amazing how he claims pregame he chooses the balls he likes, then the balls mysteriously lose pressure, and he doesn't seem to notice or mind during the game.

[coastal]

String him up

[harmonkoz]

Surely they are not going to try and pin this on some rogue ball boy, because that is where this seems to be heading.

Load of crap.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Man they are going after him hard. This is awesome. He brought his tap shoes though because he is dancing.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

After reading the tweet by their ****er of a half back I say that a strong message has to be sent to them. It is time to go nuclear, and as such only the following is an acceptable response

I. Lifetime ban for Brady and Bellicheat
II. Vacate all wins, regular and post season, the Patriots have "won" under Bill Bellicheat
III. Vacate all championships, division, conference and Superbowl "won" under Bellicheat
IV. Vacate all statistics and milestones set by Patriot offensive players, so no TDs for Gronkowski, Randi Moss loses 2007, their running backs get 0 yards, and Tom Brady has stats fitting for a sixth rounder
V. Patriots have to forfeit the Superbowl and this weekend a playoff game between Baltimore and Indianapolis decides who goes to the Superbowl to play Seattle
VI. Forfeiture of all draft picks in the 2015 College Draft
VII. Forfeiture of first round picks from 2016-2020
VIII. Bob Kraft must be forced to sell the team
IX. Roger Goodell must immediately resign for his complicity in 15 years of Patriot cheating.

[harmonkoz]

After reading the tweet by their ****er of a half back I say that a strong message has to be sent to them. It is time to go nuclear, and as such only the following is an acceptable response

I. Lifetime ban for Brady and Bellicheat
II. Vacate all wins, regular and post season, the Patriots have "won" under Bill Bellicheat
III. Vacate all championships, division, conference and Superbowl "won" under Bellicheat
IV. Vacate all statistics and milestones set by Patriot offensive players, so no TDs for Gronkowski, Randi Moss loses 2007, their running backs get 0 yards, and Tom Brady has stats fitting for a sixth rounder
V. Patriots have to forfeit the Superbowl and this weekend a playoff game between Baltimore and Indianapolis decides who goes to the Superbowl to play Seattle
VI. Forfeiture of all draft picks in the 2015 College Draft
VII. Forfeiture of first round picks from 2016-2020
VIII. Bob Kraft must be forced to sell the team
IX. Roger Goodell must immediately resign for his complicity in 15 years of Patriot cheating.

You need to take a deep breath brother. That post is like a heart attack waiting to happen.

[Joe Fo Sho]

After reading the tweet by their ****er of a half back I say that a strong message has to be sent to them. It is time to go nuclear, and as such only the following is an acceptable response

I. Lifetime ban for Brady and Bellicheat
II. Vacate all wins, regular and post season, the Patriots have "won" under Bill Bellicheat
III. Vacate all championships, division, conference and Superbowl "won" under Bellicheat
IV. Vacate all statistics and milestones set by Patriot offensive players, so no TDs for Gronkowski, Randi Moss loses 2007, their running backs get 0 yards, and Tom Brady has stats fitting for a sixth rounder
V. Patriots have to forfeit the Superbowl and this weekend a playoff game between Baltimore and Indianapolis decides who goes to the Superbowl to play Seattle
VI. Forfeiture of all draft picks in the 2015 College Draft
VII. Forfeiture of first round picks from 2016-2020
VIII. Bob Kraft must be forced to sell the team
IX. Roger Goodell must immediately resign for his complicity in 15 years of Patriot cheating.

Anything less and it'll be so obviously these games are fixed.

[coastal]

Lying through his teeth

[Generalissimus Gibby]

You need to take a deep breath brother. That post is like a heart attack waiting to happen.

No, this post is all about justice and honor. The Pats have a reputation of cheating and it tarnishes the game.

[coastal]

After reading the tweet by their ****er of a half back I say that a strong message has to be sent to them. It is time to go nuclear, and as such only the following is an acceptable response

I. Lifetime ban for Brady and Bellicheat
II. Vacate all wins, regular and post season, the Patriots have "won" under Bill Bellicheat
III. Vacate all championships, division, conference and Superbowl "won" under Bellicheat
IV. Vacate all statistics and milestones set by Patriot offensive players, so no TDs for Gronkowski, Randi Moss loses 2007, their running backs get 0 yards, and Tom Brady has stats fitting for a sixth rounder
V. Patriots have to forfeit the Superbowl and this weekend a playoff game between Baltimore and Indianapolis decides who goes to the Superbowl to play Seattle
VI. Forfeiture of all draft picks in the 2015 College Draft
VII. Forfeiture of first round picks from 2016-2020
VIII. Bob Kraft must be forced to sell the team
IX. Roger Goodell must immediately resign for his complicity in 15 years of Patriot cheating.
Awesome

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Awesome

Well hey even I have to be right once in a while. . . .

[Skooby]

So he has to prepare a ball but not squeeze it and yet his grip is important, what a complete crock. Grip is squeezing it, what a joke.

[cookie G]

Lying through his teeth

The media knows it too...that's what made it so funny to watch.

-Tom, they stopped the game for about a minute and changed the footballs...and no one told you why?

-Tom, you said you like the football at 12.5...that's the "feel' for you, but you couldn't tell a difference when the pressure decreased 15%?

-Tom, baseball players comment that they can tell the difference when a bat is a 1/2 oz. lighter or heavier..but you couldn't note a change in feel on the ball?

Pats fans will believe this crap...the rest of the world doesnt.

[Meathead]

is that tongue in cheek 3kb cuz thats like wow nuclear indeed. heck for the repeat offender i think a one game super bowl suspension for at least one and preferably both of them is certainly in order. and to me thats the nuclear option

but theyd cut their old white balls off before throwing the tom god under the bus so thats a major rug sweep in progress for sure. suspending the anti-genius cripples them a little but thats survivable. never gonna happen tho. two firsts and what two/two/ten mil in fines or whatever idk. but it wont matter. again

[Strongman]

I love Mark Brunell on ESPN. He just said he doesn't believe Brady's explanation and it is contradictory to his experience as a QB.

[cookie G]

Surely they are not going to try and pin this on some rogue ball boy, because that is where this seems to be heading.

Load of crap.

Either that or the weather....I'm sure the NFL can pull some junk scientist out of the woodwork who will describe how the balls all lost pressure due to the cold.

But the biggest reason for believing they are sweeping this under the rug?

-Tom, you're at the center of this controversy, and no one from the NFL has questioned you yet?

[Meathead]

I love Mark Brunell on ESPN. He just said he doesn't believe Brady's explanation and contradictory to his experience.

god i wish we had a secret camera on goodell at these moments. same for cheatie and the queen

[Fixxxer]

what an arrogant deflating ***** this guy is.


https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/E290BE07251170165714343297024_2f9f325d66f.5.1.3717729663971072897.mp4?versionId=9auaqwJ5ZcNXOSXvXsZiCg1tlzwZ7kDd

[harmonkoz]

what an arrogant deflating ***** this guy is.


https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/E290BE07251170165714343297024_2f9f325d66f.5.1.3717729663971072897.mp4?versionId=9auaqwJ5ZcNXOSXvXsZiCg1tlzwZ7kDd

Yeah that look made me want to crush my computer monitor.

[BuffaloRedleg]

Lol so what are people going to say now?

I thought that everyone does it?

Brady just made it sound like he was flabbergasted by even the idea of it.

Liar.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

is that tongue in cheek 3kb cuz thats like wow nuclear indeed. heck for the repeat offender i think a one game super bowl suspension for at least one and preferably both of them is certainly in order. and to me thats the nuclear option

but theyd cut their old white balls off before throwing the tom god under the bus so thats a major rug sweep in progress for sure. suspending the anti-genius cripples them a little but thats survivable. never gonna happen tho. two firsts and what two/two/ten mil in fines or whatever idk. but it wont matter. again

No tongue and cheek about it dear Meaty, in the ideal world I would not rule out a lengthy prison sentence for these people. They must pay and pay hard. I want them exterminated. They were shown great mercy in 2007 and they must never again be allowed to even think about doing something like this.

[Fixxxer]

Yeah that look made me want to crush my computer monitor.

Seriously, he directly trashed the mere idea of football integrity with a sarcastic grin. You and I can make fun about it but it's another thing when the diva of the sport does it. I wonder what some of the owners and the commissioner are thinking right now.

[Strongman]

Either that or the weather....I'm sure the NFL can pull some junk scientist out of the woodwork who will describe how the balls all lost pressure due to the cold.

But the biggest reason for believing they are sweeping this under the rug?

-Tom, you're at the center of this controversy, and no one from the NFL has questioned you yet?

Belicheat and Marcia are going to try and set up their equipment manager or ball boy. They might even try to sell it as them trying to frame the Patriots*.

[Strongman]

Lol so what are people going to say now?

I thought that everyone does it?

Brady just made it sound like he was flabbergasted by even the idea of it.

Liar.

The internet is well aware Brady just lied. Instead of this quieting things down, it is going to snowball on them. It's going to be an interesting week for them.

[DynaPaul]

“I feel like I’ve always played within the rules,” Brady said. “I would never do anything to break the rules. I believe in fair play, I respect the league and everything they’re doing to try to create a competitive playing field for all the NFL teams. It’s a very competitive league. Every team is doing the best they can to win every week. I believe in fair play and will always do that for as long as I’m playing.”
17251

[coastal]

The media knows it too...that's what made it so funny to watch.

-Tom, they stopped the game for about a minute and changed the footballs...and no one told you why?

-Tom, you said you like the football at 12.5...that's the "feel' for you, but you couldn't tell a difference when the pressure decreased 15%?

-Tom, baseball players comment that they can tell the difference when a bat is a 1/2 oz. lighter or heavier..but you couldn't note a change in feel on the ball?

Pats fans will believe this crap...the rest of the world doesnt.it reminds me of Lance Armstrong.

[harmonkoz]

Excellent watch, Brunell and the Bus's deflation demonstration.. Brady is a lying sack of excrement:

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[coastal]

Tom, you're at the center of this controversy, and no one from the NFL has questioned you yet?
translation... there is no investigation but there is a league directed PR plan in place.

[Meathead]

prison? extermination?!

work up to pats nation genocide and im in

[Meathead]

what we need is a mole. some born again equipment guy who has a vision from god. maybe we can get gameboy to rig up a truth serum dart slash kidnapping to the tv station mission or something

[Generalissimus Gibby]

prison? extermination?!

work up to pats nation genocide and im in

genocide for the fans and masturbators is a bit excessive. However, there are plenty of reeducation facilities available in the fUSSR and former East Bloc and it would be a shame to let them go to waste. Just saying. . ..

[Oaf]

Mark Brunnell is the man. Kudos to standing up on this.

[YardRat]

Time to go nuclear.

Worse than professional wrestling.

[ckg927]

After reading the tweet by their ****er of a half back I say that a strong message has to be sent to them. It is time to go nuclear, and as such only the following is an acceptable response

I. Lifetime ban for Brady and Bellicheat
II. Vacate all wins, regular and post season, the Patriots have "won" under Bill Bellicheat
III. Vacate all championships, division, conference and Superbowl "won" under Bellicheat
IV. Vacate all statistics and milestones set by Patriot offensive players, so no TDs for Gronkowski, Randi Moss loses 2007, their running backs get 0 yards, and Tom Brady has stats fitting for a sixth rounder
V. Patriots have to forfeit the Superbowl and this weekend a playoff game between Baltimore and Indianapolis decides who goes to the Superbowl to play Seattle
VI. Forfeiture of all draft picks in the 2015 College Draft
VII. Forfeiture of first round picks from 2016-2020
VIII. Bob Kraft must be forced to sell the team
IX. Roger Goodell must immediately resign for his complicity in 15 years of Patriot cheating.

The NFL doesn't have the BALLS(so to speak)to do this. End of discussion.

[Novacane]

I wonder whose idea these press conferences were? Only made things worse imo!

[ckg927]

This is already getting glossed as #Ballgahzi on Keith Olbermann's Twitter feed. I think he's going to join in the piling on the Patriots feed on his show tonight-as only he can.

[Skooby]

I wonder whose idea these press conferences were? Only made things worse imo!

Bill B's was ok, Tom's was cringe worthy for any Pats' fans.

[ckg927]

And now, everyone else weighs in(WARNING: This link might not be SFW...but you will laugh your ass off!)...

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/tom-brady-and-his-underinflated-balls-finally-make-the-nfl-fun-for-everyone/

[ckg927]

And here's something REALLY NSFW. But my GOD, it's funny!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd3D2gsPUR0

[Strongman]

I wish they asked him how come a Colts' equipment guy was able to tell that the balls were underinflated and you couldn't?

[chris66]

Surely they are not going to try and pin this on some rogue ball boy, because that is where this seems to be heading.

Load of crap.nope they are going to pin it on the refs. Pats have no knowledge its up to the nfl to prove their case. they didnt even talk to Brady. this is going to go away faster than a summer shower and the refs are going to take the fall

[swiper]

Boy. If you didn't hate the Patriots before this, how could you not now.

It's the NFL that is playing you all as fools.

It's why I have refused to spend any money on them for 40 years.

[ckg927]

nope they are going to pin it on the refs. Pats have no knowledge its up to the nfl to prove their case. they didnt even talk to Brady. this is going to go away faster than a summer shower and the refs are going to take the fall

Keep defending the indefensible, Chowd.

And prepare for the smackdown.

[swiper]

Keep defending the indefensible, Chowd.

And prepare for the smackdown.

Well, I agree with him. The refs touched the ball on every play. They didn't know the balls were altered? Bull*****. It would have been obvious to squeeze the ball. They are supposed to be looking for that every time they touch the ball. They failed big time.

And it's why the NFL is a joke that 32 rich men have over the stupid American public.

[chris66]

Keep defending the indefensible, Chowd.

And prepare for the smackdown.not defending, i could care less. balls should be inflated to what ever the qb wants and thats probably whats going to happen. It seems like the officials never checked the balls in the first place. Brady picked out 24 for the game. 4 days and the nfl still hasnt talked to Brady about it. Why?

[ckg927]

If the NFL mandates that each football has to be inflated to 12.5 to 13.5 PSI, that overrides what the QB wants.

You're giving as many excuses as Brady and Belichick are.

[swiper]

If the NFL mandates that each football has to be inflated to 12.5 to 13.5 PSI, that overrides what the QB wants.

You're giving as many excuses as Brady and Belichick are.

As another poster so eloquently pointed out, if you fill those balls in the locker room with warm/heated air they will shrink out in the cold. Air shrinks. So unless they are tested out on the field, which apparently they aren't, this may be in play.

[chris66]

If the NFL mandates that each football has to be inflated to 12.5 to 13.5 PSI, that overrides what the QB wants.

You're giving as many excuses as Brady and Belichick are.No im not. If rodgers wants his ball on the high side which he has stated that he likes and Brady wants it a a little softer whats the big deal. open the rule to between 11 and 15. I seriously doubt they are using calibrated measuring devices

[JohnnyGold]

Well, I agree with him. The refs touched the ball on every play. They didn't know the balls were altered? Bull*****. It would have been obvious to squeeze the ball. They are supposed to be looking for that every time they touch the ball. They failed big time.

And it's why the NFL is a joke that 32 rich men have over the stupid American public.

I'm super stoned right now, and this actually makes sense, and deep down inside, i think we all kinda know it's true.

its an entertainment product that generates billions and billions of dollars--it would be nonsensical to leave it up to chance.

i mean, as it relates to the bills--why wasn't mike vick allowed to sign here? goodell basically stepped in and redirected a player away from exercising his freewell, and put him in a bigger market, in a more high profile division, with a team that was a big draw in the NFC at that point.

it doesn't even have to be egregious--just subtle doctoring of games over the course of the season that gets the big market/big owners deep into the playoffs. plus, the NFL can shape these stories years in advance, and sculpt them like a soap opera.

hell, this football story, deflategate, EASILY could have been handled in-house by the NFL, or even addressed by this point. Why the silence? Goodell speaks out of two sides of his mouth, or rather, allows himself to be presented as "we must protect the shield at all costs, the integrity of the league comes first": but yet, here he is, letting a negative story drag on for a WEEK! he probably wont issue the "punishment" until right before media day. it's just another twist in the patriots legacy.

i mean (hold on to your hats here guys, im baked) look at robert craft:

http://c.o0bg.com/rf/image_585w/Boston/2011-2020/2013/12/22/BostonGlobe.com/Lifestyle/Images/davis_nebalpre6_spts.jpg

some air force ones, some model girlfriend. couldn't you just SEE him addressing the owners 10-15 years ago, with a speach like
"everyone loves a bad guy. we need a team in the NFL like the WWF has their heels. we need a club that everyone despises. let the Patriots be that club".
he just looks like the kind of old man who wants to be cool with the kids and black guys, the kind of guy that would want his billion dollar new toy to be "edgy".

the story line is written. pats draft no name qb in 6th round based on his good looks so he can be the all american poster boy that the girls fall for, they get gifted 3 super bowls by the league as a "welcome to the good old boys club, lets get you guys up to 'dynasty status' asap, we gotta make america think the patriots = class of the nfl."

and the climax? patriots go 18-0 then BOOM lose to the plucky team from new york on the same week its revealed you guys were cheaters so everyone in america is rooting against you now.

and now deflate gate.

the only plus side to this that i can see, and maybe it goes hand in hand with why the bills have sucked for the last 15 years, but we have owners who are now at the top of the heap when it comes to cash. i bet kim will be a hit on jerry's party bus. i can just see daniel snyder having 3 too many gin and tonics at the next owners meeting and talling terry that "he's so glad that old bastard ralph is in the ground, now lets get to building a new stadium in downtown buffalo! put me on your psl list! lol"

ralph was so miserly and anti-establishment, no wonder every call has been going against us for 25 years.

hey. maybe our story arch is being written right now?

bills are an up and coming young team with star wideout sammy watkins and rb cj spiller. an offseason trade nets them colin kapernick. 3 prime time games next year. hell, we already know we got a london game.

far fetched? rex is in town and guides the team on an improbable playoff run--bills win first super bowl. welcome to the league terry pegula? thanks for agreeing to build that stadium in downtown buffalo?

i mean--wouldnt that be a great story line?

ARE THE BILLS WINNING THE SUPER BOWL NEXT YEAR??!?!?

[harmonkoz]

As another poster so eloquently pointed out, if you fill those balls in the locker room with warm/heated air they will shrink out in the cold. Air shrinks. So unless they are tested out on the field, which apparently they aren't, this may be in play.


It has already been printed that they would have needed to been filled in 91 degree weather for that much air loss so keep reaching for straws dilrod.


http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/01/21/how-the-patriots-could-have-cheated-without-letting-air-out-the-ball/Eocm5m29nIlh0HRBjFWsYO/story.html

[chris66]

with the lack of info coming from any source this what i think happened
brady picked out 24 Balls the ref in charge picked up a half dozen and gave the ok without actually checking. Balls are shown not properly inflated. Dean bandino questions Walt Anderson about what the starting pressure was, he states he has no idea because they never actually took a measurement

[Novacane]

with the lack of info coming from any source this what i think happened
brady picked out 24 Balls the ref in charge picked up a half dozen and gave the ok without actually checking. Balls are shown not properly inflated. Dean bandino questions Walt Anderson about what the starting pressure was, he states he has no idea because they never actually took a measurement



Just stop dude. Your QB and HC are cheaters. You know it. Everyone knows it.

[Strongman]

It has already been printed that they would have needed to been filled in 91 degree weather for that much air loss so keep reaching for straws dilrod.


http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/01/21/how-the-patriots-could-have-cheated-without-letting-air-out-the-ball/Eocm5m29nIlh0HRBjFWsYO/story.html

The only way that works is if the balls are completely deflated and then filled up. There's a problem though...

I read the balls are shipped from the manufacturer (Wilson) already inflated to the proper PSI range. So a team would only need to let a tiny bit of air out or add some in to adjust it to the QB's preference. If they are taking ALL the air out and inflating it with warmer than normal air, then that has to come under intentional tampering.

[GreedoII]

with the lack of info coming from any source this what i think happened
brady picked out 24 Balls the ref in charge picked up a half dozen and gave the ok without actually checking. Balls are shown not properly inflated. Dean bandino questions Walt Anderson about what the starting pressure was, he states he has no idea because they never actually took a measurement

eff off man....

[ckg927]

This is already getting glossed as #Ballgahzi on Keith Olbermann's Twitter feed. I think he's going to join in the piling on the Patriots feed on his show tonight-as only he can.

And speak of the devil...here he is!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luqtjL7_da8

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

lol that was awesome !

[don137]

The best part of this whole situation is Pats fans are very quiet and humbled. They don't have a leg to stand on. Going to the Super Bowl and they cannot run their mouth with anything intelligent to say. The Patriots are to football what Sammy Sosa, Mark McGuire and Barry Bonds is to baseball. Legacy is tarnished permanently.
Patriots haven't won a road playoff game in 7 years. How many other times this year did they cheat to get the number one seed?

[paladin warrior]

Are still investigation? or done .

[CommissarSpartacus]

Either that or the weather....I'm sure the NFL can pull some junk scientist out of the woodwork who will describe how the balls all lost pressure due to the cold.

The fact that air contracts when it cools is "Junk" science?

[CommissarSpartacus]

BTW, the NFL has provided the Patriots with the BEST pre-Superbowl bulletin board materail in the history of the league.

If the Patriots and Brady wanted to win before, they'd sell their souls for it now.

This is a showdown.

Think the NFL will tell the refs to make ABSOLUTELY SURE the Patriots lose?

[coastal]

The fact that air contracts when it cools is "Junk" science?
On one sideline?

lolz.

[CommissarSpartacus]

On one sideline?

lolz.

Were the balls filled to the exact same level initially?

Luck gets to choose and prepare his balls too.

Maybe he likes them harder.

Have we heard him chime in yet?

[Skooby]

nope they are going to pin it on the refs. Pats have no knowledge its up to the nfl to prove their case. they didnt even talk to Brady. this is going to go away faster than a summer shower and the refs are going to take the fall

You sound like a Mass-hole.

[ckg927]

BTW, the NFL has provided the Patriots with the BEST pre-Superbowl bulletin board materail in the history of the league.

If the Patriots and Brady wanted to win before, they'd sell their souls for it now.

This is a showdown.

Think the NFL will tell the refs to make ABSOLUTELY SURE the Patriots lose?

Uh....I think the Pats already sold their souls to The Man Downstairs.

Soon, it'll be time to pay the piper.

[swiper]

It has already been printed that they would have needed to been filled in 91 degree weather for that much air loss so keep reaching for straws dilrod.


http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/2015/01/21/how-the-patriots-could-have-cheated-without-letting-air-out-the-ball/Eocm5m29nIlh0HRBjFWsYO/story.html

Well it's not hard too heat air a little Einstein. A hair dryer. A compressor. You're just another under-educated, loudmouth fan that spouts off nonsense when you have nothing actually worthwhile to add. Crawl back under your rock.

[feldspar]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B8AEaMrCQAAIGiz.jpg

[coastal]

Were the balls filled to the exact same level initially?

Luck gets to choose and prepare his balls too.

Maybe he likes them harder.

Have we heard him chime in yet?
Prepare his balls?

i must have missed the part of the process where the QB had any part in the inflation of the balls.

[harmonkoz]

Well it's not hard too heat air a little Einstein. A hair dryer. A compressor. You're just another under-educated, loudmouth fan that spouts off nonsense when you have nothing actually worthwhile to add. Crawl back under your rock.


Ha ha... You are a fool. A compressor? Do you think they start with a flat ball fan boy? Trust me you are generally the loudmouth who adds nothing. Anyone who can use the post search feature can see that quite easily. Go back to Boston, Miami, or wherever you dragged your sorry ass from. You obviously are not a Bills fan if you are defending the Patriots.

[cookie G]

The fact that air contracts when it cools is "Junk" science?

Yeah..if all you're going to say is 1) air contracts when it cools and 2) it was colder outside than inside where the balls were tested...and therefore...that's what caused the deflation.

That's pretty much the definition of junk science. Taking a scientific principle and throwing it around in a general sense without any type of meaningful analysis.

[cookie G]

Well it's not hard too heat air a little Einstein. A hair dryer. A compressor. You're just another under-educated, loudmouth fan that spouts off nonsense when you have nothing actually worthwhile to add. Crawl back under your rock.

And why would they heat the air when inflating the footballs?

[Novacane]

BTW, the NFL has provided the Patriots with the BEST pre-Superbowl bulletin board materail in the history of the league.

If the Patriots and Brady wanted to win before, they'd sell their souls for it now.

This is a showdown.

Think the NFL will tell the refs to make ABSOLUTELY SURE the Patriots lose?



Yes.

[better days]

Former NFL QB Mark Brunell said he does not believe Tom Brady.

[Discotrish]

Former NFL QB Mark Brunell said he does not believe Tom Brady.

Why would anyone believe Brady? You'd have to think it was done by a rogue ballboy or an official who had money on the game.

Note he parsed his words so what he said is "technically true" a la Bill Clinton. Of course he didn't personally do it, someone did it for him.

Also enjoyed Belichick using Obama's m.o. when it comes to be questioned: "I just found out about this when YOU did, from the media."

I'm sure a control freak like Belichick knew all about it. Actually, his claim to "not know" is probably also true in the sense that they've probably been doing this for so long that he's absolutely out of touch with what is their "routine" no doubt set up years ago.

Patti

[CommissarSpartacus]

Well it's not hard too heat air a little Einstein. A hair dryer. A compressor. You're just another under-educated, loudmouth fan that spouts off nonsense when you have nothing actually worthwhile to add. Crawl back under your rock.

Like I said, I don't think there's any rule about the temperature of the air you fill the ball with.

Don't blame Brady and Belichek because they read the rules.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Yeah..if all you're going to say is 1) air contracts when it cools and 2) it was colder outside than inside where the balls were tested...and therefore...that's what caused the deflation.

That's pretty much the definition of junk science. Taking a scientific principle and throwing it around in a general sense without any type of meaningful analysis.

Excuse me?

It's a simple calculation. We know the volume of a football. We know how much air expands and contracts according to temperature.

If you fill the balls to the required minimum with 120 degree air and then take it out and play with it in 50 degree temperatures, THEN WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN?

Jesus, I thought at LEAST you wouldn't pick up the flaming torch and join the lynch mob...

[Discotrish]

Like I said, I don't think there's any rule about the temperature of the air you fill the ball with.

Don't blame Brady and Belichek because they read the rules.

There's no rule about whether they keep the ball in a freezer or a greenhouse, either. The rule is about proper inflation weight of the ball.

Patti

[CommissarSpartacus]

And why would they heat the air when inflating the footballs?

So when it cooled, the ball would be softer.

Duh.

There is a rule about minimum psi when the balls are handed over.

There is no rule about minimum psi after the game is over.

Man, I thought you guys embarrassed yourselves beyond belief with Spygate, but this takes the cake.

[CommissarSpartacus]

There's no rule about whether they keep the ball in a freezer or a greenhouse, either. The rule is about proper inflation weight of the ball.

Patti

There is no "proper" inflation level of a football.

There is a NFL mandated minimum and maximum psi levels when the balls are handed over.

A see no evidence that suggests the Patriots didn't follow this rule precisely.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Prepare his balls?

i must have missed the part of the process where the QB had any part in the inflation of the balls.

Apparently you did.

There are game balls and kicking balls and each team gets to scuff up the game balls to their satisfaction.

[DraftBoy]

Prepare his balls?

i must have missed the part of the process where the QB had any part in the inflation of the balls.

Every QB tells the equipment manager how they want the ball prepared. The inflation is only a part of the process. The real prep for a QB is in how they want the ball scuffed. Usually a QB will hold everyone of the game balls late in the week (I think Brady said Thursday in his PC) and will make sure the scuff is right for his grip to ensure he can deliver the ball the best.

There are some QB's who prefer over inflated balls like Aaron Rodgers;
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

[swiper]

Ha ha... You are a fool. A compressor? Do you think they start with a flat ball fan boy? Trust me you are generally the loudmouth who adds nothing. Anyone who can use the post search feature can see that quite easily. Go back to Boston, Miami, or wherever you dragged your sorry ass from. You obviously are not a Bills fan if you are defending the Patriots.

@sshole I was born and raised in Buffalo. So FOAD. If you could read, which you obviously can't do, I never defended any Patriot. You are a horrid poster. Just leave.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Do you think they'll cover the inflation of the game and kicking balls live before the Superbowl?

How else can fans be sure the patriots aren't cheating?

[Discotrish]

Do you think they'll cover the inflation of the game and kicking balls live before the Superbowl?

How else can fans be sure the patriots aren't cheating?

If Tom Brady isn't playing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k04Wv0fydvU

Patti

[harmonkoz]

@sshole I was born and raised in Buffalo. So FOAD. If you could read, which you obviously can't do, I never defended any Patriot. You are a horrid poster. Just leave.

You were? Who'd a thunk it? You come across as a chowd guzzler.

Just leave... FOAD... @sshole... lmao. Unbunch your panties Sally.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Cool it boys. Heated debate is one thing. No more personal attacks.

[cookie G]

So when it cooled, the ball would be softer.

Duh.

There is a rule about minimum psi when the balls are handed over.

There is no rule about minimum psi after the game is over.

Man, I thought you guys embarrassed yourselves beyond belief with Spygate, but this takes the cake.

Good answer..the one I expected...we'll go with that.

So..someone with the Pats (a junior ballboy, I'm sure), purposefully used higher temperature air to inflate the footballs...knowing that the colder temps would decrease the pressure on the field.

A premeditated plan to reach a desired effect. And it worked, apparently. OK...pushes the rule, but doesn't necessarily break it.

Now, let's move ahead to yesterday's awesome press conferences.

Bill, do you know what happened?

-"Nah, I didn't know anything about anything until Monday morning. This isn't an area I get into, footballs and all that...so I really wouldn't know...let's go ask Tom!"

Tom, do you know how the footballs lost pressure?

-Nah, I have NOooooo idea!!! Hell, I didn't even notice it when we were playing...were they deflated? Good question, sure hope the NFL gets to the bottom of this.

Under your theory, one of the two, or both, would have known all along, since this was their own plan.

According to them..both knew nothing.

If what you are saying is true, why should anyone believe them?

[Strongman]

Good answer..the one I expected...we'll go with that.

So..someone with the Pats (a junior ballboy, I'm sure), purposefully used higher temperature air to inflate the footballs...knowing that the colder temps would decrease the pressure on the field.

A premeditated plan to reach a desired effect. And it worked, apparently. OK...pushes the rule, but doesn't necessarily break it.

Now, let's move ahead to yesterday's awesome press conferences.

Bill, do you know what happened?

-"Nah, I didn't know anything about anything until Monday morning. This isn't an area I get into, footballs and all that...so I really wouldn't know...let's go ask Tom!"

Tom, do you know how the footballs lost pressure?

-Nah, I have NOooooo idea!!! Hell, I didn't even notice it when we were playing...were they deflated? Good question, sure hope the NFL gets to the bottom of this.

Under your theory, one of the two, or both, would have known all along, since this was their own plan.

According to them..both knew nothing.

If what you are saying is true, why should anyone believe them?

I believe the balls are shipped from Wilson already inflated to within the proper NFL psi specifications.

It would only work if they completely deflated the ball and re-inflated it with air at the required temperature. In my mind, that's premeditated, very intentional, and the NFL should look at it as cheating.

[better days]

I believe the balls are shipped from Wilson already inflated to within the proper NFL psi specifications.

It would only work if they completely deflated the ball and re-inflated it with air at the required temperature. In my mind, that's premeditated, very intentional, and the NFL should look at it as cheating.

Well, I highly doubt the footballs were filled with HOT air.

I believe they were filled under normal conditions & air was let out by someone associated with the CHEATERS.

Now Belicheat & Brady? I believe both of them are full of HOT AIR.

[Strongman]

Well, I highly doubt the footballs were filled with HOT air.

I believe they were filled under normal conditions & air was let out by someone associated with the CHEATERS.

Now Belicheat & Brady? I believe both of them are full of HOT AIR.

I agree that someone simply letting the air out is most likely to have happened. The hot air theory floating around (pun intended) just seems overly complicated. Other than those possibilities, the only other explanation is the balls were switched out. Now granted, the balls are marked by the refs, but I'm sure it would occur to someone to keep the balls from a previous game that were marked by the same official.

[upstart]

The media knows it too...that's what made it so funny to watch.

-Tom, they stopped the game for about a minute and changed the footballs...and no one told you why?

-Tom, you said you like the football at 12.5...that's the "feel' for you, but you couldn't tell a difference when the pressure decreased 15%?

-Tom, baseball players comment that they can tell the difference when a bat is a 1/2 oz. lighter or heavier..but you couldn't note a change in feel on the ball?

Pats fans will believe this crap...the rest of the world doesnt.

I don't care if a member of the Pats let some air out of the footballs, its a $25,000 fine- big deal.... So Mr Kraft send the League a check for $25G's and tell them to STFU.

End of story.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Good answer..the one I expected...we'll go with that.

So..someone with the Pats (a junior ballboy, I'm sure), purposefully used higher temperature air to inflate the footballs...knowing that the colder temps would decrease the pressure on the field.

A premeditated plan to reach a desired effect. And it worked, apparently.

Of course it worked, it's physics. Something smart people know - like videotape means you don't have to take notes.


OK...pushes the rule, but doesn't necessarily break it.

It doesn't "push" the rule either. It merely does not break any written rule, and I doubt the rulebook has a section about being a smarty-pants. This, like Spygate, is the stupid majority of the NFL and it's fanbase trying to use a niggling accusation about an irrelevant situation to try to tarnish the Pats success, and thus excuse their own failure.


Now, let's move ahead to yesterday's awesome press conferences.

Bill, do you know what happened?

-"Nah, I didn't know anything about anything until Monday morning. This isn't an area I get into, footballs and all that...so I really wouldn't know...let's go ask Tom!"

Tom, do you know how the footballs lost pressure?

-Nah, I have NOooooo idea!!! Hell, I didn't even notice it when we were playing...were they deflated? Good question, sure hope the NFL gets to the bottom of this.

Under your theory, one of the two, or both, would have known all along, since this was their own plan.

Not necessarily. "Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?" = "I like my footballs as soft as possible. Why can't the NFL let us use softer footballs? Makes for a better game!".

Always the possibility of a bright young boy coming up with a good idea. Plus, we still haven't addressed the very real possibility it could have been a third party that ****ed with the footballs, if in fact they were actually ****ed with. Or, as I said, it could have been operatives working for Roger Goodell.


According to them..both knew nothing.

Maybe they'll take a polygraph. A waterboard would get the truth out of them.


If what you are saying is true, why should anyone believe them?

I hate to be dreary, but this is a logical fallacy that goes "Just because I can't think of another scenario, I must believe this one."

There are oother possibilities than Belichek and Brady coercing some frightened ball boy into screwing with all the footballs after they've been sequestered.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Well, I highly doubt the footballs were filled with HOT air.


Why? It's simple to do and isn't breaking any rule.

[Mr. Pink]

Every QB tells the equipment manager how they want the ball prepared. The inflation is only a part of the process. The real prep for a QB is in how they want the ball scuffed. Usually a QB will hold everyone of the game balls late in the week (I think Brady said Thursday in his PC) and will make sure the scuff is right for his grip to ensure he can deliver the ball the best.

There are some QB's who prefer over inflated balls like Aaron Rodgers;
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

Then Rodgers and the Packers cheat just as much, don't they?

Where's the big uproar about them in all of this?

If the QB likes the ball to be over-inflated above the rules because of the feel it's just as much of a competitive advantage as another QB who likes the ball to be under-inflated because of the feel, right?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Of course it worked, it's physics. Something smart people know

OK, professor. How long do you think it would take for the football to get back to room temperature after being inflated with hot air? A few minutes? You think the equipment guy can inflate 12 footballs with hot air, get them over to the refs, and have the refs measure the pressure in time for it to make any difference?

I'm just asking because you're so smart, Smarticus. You must have taken Thermal Transfer courses in college.

[CommissarSpartacus]

OK, professor. How long do you think it would take for the football to get back to room temperature after being inflated with hot air? A few minutes? You think the equipment guy can inflate 12 footballs with hot air, get them over to the refs, and have the refs measure the pressure in time for it to make any difference?


It'd be easy.

For someone with a brain.

It's only math...

[Joe Fo Sho]

It'd be easy.

For someone with a brain.

It's only math...

So do the math.

[better days]

Why? It's simple to do and isn't breaking any rule.

Well, that is EXACTLY why the Pats* didn't do that.

In the PC both Belicheat & Brady addressed the deflated football issue. They would/could have said, well maybe the balls were filled with hot air & with the cold weather the psi decreased.

But NEITHER of them said that.

The Patriots* have cultivated a culture of CHEATING & no matter what they say or do forever more, The Patriots* will be known as CHEATERS, NOT a dynasty.

[CommissarSpartacus]

So do the math.

You need to know how long it takes from the time the balls are filled to the time they're tested and the ambient temperature in the room where they test them.

You can then do your own test to see how much the balls deflate, then add the appropriate extra amount of air so it's at 12.5 when tested.

Use your head...

[upstart]

The Pats have *****ed slapped the teams in the NFL for over 14 years. For the last decade the Bills have had NO balls when playing my Pats.


You should kiss Patriot ass and end the childish hate.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Well, that is EXACTLY why the Pats* didn't do that.

In the PC both Belicheat & Brady addressed the deflated football issue. They would/could have said, well maybe the balls were filled with hot air & with the cold weather the psi decreased.

But NEITHER of them said that.

They don't have to say it. All they have to say is they don't know. It's not their job to figure out how it could have happened.


The Patriots* have cultivated a culture of CHEATING & no matter what they say or do forever more, The Patriots* will be known as CHEATERS, NOT a dynasty.

A "culture of cheating"? Horse****.

Spygate was a powerplay between Goodell and the Pats. When the Pats started taping signals, there was NO RULE against it. The rule was only changed because the other teams who hadn't been smart enough to think of it themselves ganged up in the competition committee and rammed it through.

The Patriots didn't think it was fair so they made an issue of it.

Until now, that's the ONLY incidence of cheating that was hung on the Pats.

Culture of cheating?

Bull****...

[CommissarSpartacus]

The Pats have *****ed slapped the teams in the NFL for over 14 years. For the last decade the Bills have had NO balls when playing my Pats.


You should kiss Patriot ass and end the childish hate.

It IS childish.

Sour grapes.

guys that can't beat them on the field trying to beat them in the boardroom and the media...

[Joe Fo Sho]

You need to know how long it takes from the time the balls are filled to the time they're tested and the ambient temperature in the room where they test them.

That's the question I'm asking you, professor. What's the time frame for something like that to happen. For this question, assume an ambient temperature of 70°F.

[better days]

They don't have to say it. All they have to say is they don't know. It's not their job to figure out how it could have happened.



A "culture of cheating"? Horse****.

Spygate was a powerplay between Goodell and the Pats. When the Pats started taping signals, there was NO RULE against it. The rule was only changed because the other teams who hadn't been smart enough to think of it themselves ganged up in the competition committee and rammed it through.

The Patriots didn't think it was fair so they made an issue of it.

Until now, that's the ONLY incidence of cheating that was hung on the Pats.

Culture of cheating?

Bull****...

A Power play between Goodell & Kraft?

LMAO, Goodell & Kraft are GOOD friends & that is the only reason Belicheat is still coaching in the NFL.

And CHEATING goes back to when the Pats* PLOWED snow off the field to kick a field goal.

[Discotrish]

I believe the balls are shipped from Wilson already inflated to within the proper NFL psi specifications.

It would only work if they completely deflated the ball and re-inflated it with air at the required temperature. In my mind, that's premeditated, very intentional, and the NFL should look at it as cheating.

If, as some theorize, it is NOT cheating, then Brady and Belichick can simply explain it that way. We tested the limits of the rule but did not break it.

That isn't what I'm hearing though.

There is a saboteur in the organization, apparently.

Patti

[cookie G]

Of course it worked, it's physics. Something smart people know - like videotape means you don't have to take notes.



It doesn't "push" the rule either. It merely does not break any written rule, and I doubt the rulebook has a section about being a smarty-pants. This, like Spygate, is the stupid majority of the NFL and it's fanbase trying to use a niggling accusation about an irrelevant situation to try to tarnish the Pats success, and thus excuse their own failure.



Not necessarily. "Who will rid me of this troublesome priest?" = "I like my footballs as soft as possible. Why can't the NFL let us use softer footballs? Makes for a better game!".

Always the possibility of a bright young boy coming up with a good idea. Plus, we still haven't addressed the very real possibility it could have been a third party that ****ed with the footballs, if in fact they were actually ****ed with.

Well...when you come up with another scenario, one that doesn't have Bill and Tom lying through their teeth on national TV..I'll certainly listen.




Or, as I said, it could have been operatives working for Roger Goodell.

Do you think this plan was in effect when Roger was having dinner at Bob's the night before the game?

The thoughts that would have been going through Goodell's head that night would be priceless to hear.

I wonder if he was snickering all through the chowder course, as Kraft was prattling on about the Pats' return to glory?




Maybe they'll take a polygraph. A waterboard would get the truth out of them.

Belichick could probably beat a polygraph. Since he doesn't really care what he says, none of the answers would get a rise out of him.

Well..except when the reporter asked him why trouble seems to follow him...you could see his blood boiling there.

Brady...he'd flunk the control questions.




I hate to be dreary, but this is a logical fallacy that goes "Just because I can't think of another scenario, I must believe this one."

There are oother possibilities than Belichek and Brady coercing some frightened ball boy into screwing with all the footballs after they've been sequestered.

Oh well..you came up with one fake scenario..keep at it..I'm sure there will be more.

[cookie G]

The Pats have *****ed slapped the teams in the NFL for over 14 years. For the last decade the Bills have had NO balls when playing my Pats.


You should kiss Patriot ass and end the childish hate.

eh...there was a time they were looking like a dynasty, but it really hasn't been that way any more for a decade.

Now, they're more like the SB Bills, the Broncos of the 80's, or most Marty Schottenheimer coached teams. That's assuming, of course, all of those teams cheated. If not, they've moved a rung below them.

Good..but not quite there.

[paladin warrior]

Just wait until SB is over . And see if Tom B will go to NFL court . if Tom B is bully lier a little rat with wipe the smile face off . if Tom.B is guilty and I bet his wife will divorce him .

[coastal]

Just wait until SB is over . And see if Tom B will go to NFL court . if Tom B is bully lier a little rat with wipe the smile face off . if Tom.B is guilty and I bet his wife will divorce him .
No zoner left behind

[Skooby]

If, as some theorize, it is NOT cheating, then Brady and Belichick can simply explain it that way. We tested the limits of the rule but did not break it.

That isn't what I'm hearing though.

There is a saboteur in the organization, apparently.

Patti

It's all about the weather Patti.

- - - Updated - - -


Just wait until SB is over . And see if Tom B will go to NFL court . if Tom B is bully lier a little rat with wipe the smile face off . if Tom.B is guilty and I bet his wife will divorce him .

If Tom's balls deflate, then maybe.

[ckg927]

The Pats have *****ed slapped the teams in the NFL for over 14 years. For the last decade the Bills have had NO balls when playing my Pats.


You should kiss Patriot ass and end the childish hate.

We kick ass. We don't kiss ass.

Here in Buffalo, to quote former pro wrestler Taz, "The mood is about to change." And the Bills should adopt his catchphrase as their new motto: "Beat me if you can! Survive if I LET YOU!"

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Until now, that's the ONLY incidence of cheating that was hung on the Pats.

That's the only thing that progress enough to punishment, but they've been doing stuff like this for years. They intentionally held the Colts wideouts over and over in the AFCCG, so the NFL was forced to come in and remind the refs that illegal contact is still a penalty in the playoffs. They worked the injury report system, listing Brady with the exact same shoulder injury for six full seasons (an injury which he had suffered 2 years earlier and completely recovered from). They pulled foolishness like subbing their entire punt team out for the offense at the last seconds of the play clock vs. the Broncos, and then acted furious when the refs (correctly) forced them to wait for the Broncos.

Individually, these aren't big deals, but that constant stepping over every line until somone pushes back is what makes a "culture" of cheating.

[YardRat]

I don't care if a member of the Pats let some air out of the footballs, its a $25,000 fine- big deal.... So Mr Kraft send the League a check for $25G's and tell them to STFU.

End of story.

Bull****.

'The plow driver did nothing illegal. End of story.'
'Quit whining about 'just give it to them, refs make mistakes'. End of story.'
'Belichek wasn't really under contract to the Jets. End of story.'
'So what? They use cameras to cheat. They were punished. End of story.'
'The Pats aren't favored by the refs, it just looks that way because you lost. End of story.'
'Who cares if they cheated and get fined, as long as cheating keeps leading to wins. End of story.'

The problem is, there is no end to this story, and it just keeps manifesting itself in different ways and continues on and on. Cheat, get caught, find a new way to cheat. Rinse, repeat.

How about this...

Ban Belichek for life.
Ban Brady for life.
Eradicate all titles and statistics from the BB and TB era.
Force Kraft to sell the team and move it to LA.

That would be 'End of story'.

[coastal]

So apparently Bellicheat has admitted spatacus' heated air hypothesis isn't true.

[harmonkoz]

So apparently Bellicheat has admitted spatacus' heated air hypothesis isn't true.

Surely this does not shock you.

[chris66]

Bull****.

'The plow driver did nothing illegal. End of story.'
'Quit whining about 'just give it to them, refs make mistakes'. End of story.'
'Belichek wasn't really under contract to the Jets. End of story.'
'So what? They use cameras to cheat. They were punished. End of story.'
'The Pats aren't favored by the refs, it just looks that way because you lost. End of story.'
'Who cares if they cheated and get fined, as long as cheating keeps leading to wins. End of story.'

The problem is, there is no end to this story, and it just keeps manifesting itself in different ways and continues on and on. Cheat, get caught, find a new way to cheat. Rinse, repeat.

How about this...

Ban Belichek for life.
Ban Brady for life.
Eradicate all titles and statistics from the BB and TB era.
Force Kraft to sell the team and move it to LA.

That would be 'End of story'.

Not for nothing most of those things other than the taping are league issues

[YardRat]

Not for nothing most of those things other than the taping are league issues

Quit being ignorant...those are Patriot issues.

[chris66]

Quit being ignorant...those are Patriot issues.
How is the refs just give it to them the Pats issue.
Pats gave jets a first round pick. Again league issue
Calls pats get dont get is a league issue

[CommissarSpartacus]

So apparently Bellicheat has admitted spatacus' heated air hypothesis isn't true.

That's not what I heard.

I heard he was all over my explanation...

[upstart]

Bull****.

'The plow driver did nothing illegal. End of story.'
'Quit whining about 'just give it to them, refs make mistakes'. End of story.'
'Belichek wasn't really under contract to the Jets. End of story.'
'So what? They use cameras to cheat. They were punished. End of story.'
'The Pats aren't favored by the refs, it just looks that way because you lost. End of story.'
'Who cares if they cheated and get fined, as long as cheating keeps leading to wins. End of story.'

The problem is, there is no end to this story, and it just keeps manifesting itself in different ways and continues on and on. Cheat, get caught, find a new way to cheat. Rinse, repeat.

How about this...

Ban Belichek for life.
Ban Brady for life.
Eradicate all titles and statistics from the BB and TB era.
Force Kraft to sell the team and move it to LA.

That would be 'End of story'.

You play to win the game. End of story.

I laugh at you.

[better days]

We cheat to win the game. End of story.

I laugh at you.

Fixed that for you.

He who laughs last...

[CommissarSpartacus]

LOL! x 12.5.

The amount of stupidity and rabid jealousy prompted by this idiot "conspiracy" is staggering. But it's the flat out denial of anything but a desire for justice is the motivation behind the howling lynch mob.

Logical fallacies left and right, baseless assertions and ridiculous hyperbole rule the day.

Take this article from this morning's Sun.

The headline says one thing, while in the aricle itself, the U of T physics professor says it's entirely feasible. But then that doesn't stop the writer from calling 30 C "super-hot" and reacting to the idea like it's fiendishly evil just to think like that.

Utterly bi2arre...

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/01/24/deflategate-physicist-discredits-natural-pressure-drop-theories

Deflategate: physicist discredits natural pressure-drop theories

By John Kryk, QMI Agency

First posted: Saturday, January 24, 2015 03:47 PM EST

It would take a 30C drop in temperature (or 54F) for an inflated football to naturally lose two pounds per square inch (PSI) of air pressure, a University of Toronto physicist says.

Two nations’ deflation preoccupation this week had me looking up the physics of how a football might lose two PSI without a surreptitious insertion of a pin.

...and...

But what if the Patriots inflate their balls entirely with super-hot 30C air, right before turning them over to officials for gauging gbefore the game?

“Yes, of course. That would work too,” Morris said. “This would require a hot air pump.”

Would the Patriots go to that length? It’s inconceivable they would, or could, without Belichick’s knowledge.


50 F + 54 F = 114 F.

Ooooo, 114 F! Isn't that the temperature of the Sun?

[harmonkoz]

LOL! x 12.5.... blah blah blah blah

I will tell you what is utterly bizarre. You posting these rant books.

You are like a chatty Cathy doll that pulls her own string.

[better days]

Ooooo, 114 F! Isn't that the temperature of the Sun?

No, it is the temperature in Arizona in the Summer.

LOL at CHEATERS fan TRYING to defend that CHEATING team.

[Joe Fo Sho]

But what if the Patriots inflate their balls entirely with super-hot 30C air, right before turning them over to officials for gauging gbefore the game?

So the Pats inflate 12 balls, get them to the refs, and have the refs check all twelve before the temperature of the football drops to ambient? That's what you're saying?

[CommissarSpartacus]

So the Pats inflate 12 balls, get them to the refs, and have the refs check all twelve before the temperature of the football drops to ambient? That's what you're saying?

It's certainly a possibility, isn't it?

Doesn't break any rule as far as I can see....

[CommissarSpartacus]

No, it is the temperature in Arizona in the Summer.


Exactly.

In other words, big ****ing deal and show me where it breaks a rule.

[Joe Fo Sho]

It's certainly a possibility, isn't it?

Doesn't break any rule as far as I can see....

You say how easy it is to do the math that could prove this, yet you don't do the math. How come, Smarticus?

[CommissarSpartacus]

I will tell you what is utterly bizarre. You posting these rant books.

You are like a chatty Cathy doll that pulls her own string.

Simple solution.

Don't bother reading the thread if you find it so disturbing.

Football is a big tent - the stupid can allow the intelligent a corner...

[CommissarSpartacus]

You say how easy it is to do the math that could prove this, yet you don't do the math. How come, Smarticus?

Did you read the article I posted?

A U of T physics prof did the math.

Do you have a problem with it?

[stuckincincy]

You say how easy it is to do the math that could prove this, yet you don't do the math. How come, Smarticus?
He could read this:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/227930-TMZ-NFL-says-they-have-Video-evidence-of-deflate-gate?p=4053849#post4053849

...and note that any temperature effects during the game would also apply to the balls that IND had on the sidelines, also.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Did you read the article I posted?

A U of T physics prof did the math.

Do you have a problem with it?

Did you read the part of your quote that I quoted? It says nothing about this in the article. That's what I have a problem with. It's inconceivable to me that the refs measure 12 footballs within seconds of the pats inflating them. That is what the article suggests. You believe they can?

[CommissarSpartacus]

He could read this:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/227930-TMZ-NFL-says-they-have-Video-evidence-of-deflate-gate?p=4053849#post4053849

..and note that any temperature effects during the game would also apply to the balls that IND had on the sidelines, also.

Indeed, but as I've said a hundred times, the Colts ball may have been filled to 13.5 with room temperature air to begin with.

Has anyone asked Andrew Luck about it?

Thought not.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Did you read the part of your quote that I quoted? It says nothing about this in the article. That's what I have a problem with. It's inconceivable to me that the refs measure 12 footballs within seconds of the pats inflating them. That is what the article suggests. You believe they can?

Huh? I don't understand what you're complaining about.

As far as I know so far, the Pats balls are prepared and inflated by the Pats and delivered to the refs to be checked 2 hours before the game.

As far as I know, the refs have nothing to do with the balls before they're delivered.

And if they have a machine for measuring the balls, the officials may not even have to touch them as they're tested.

So, it's simple - they deliver hot balls (no rule against it) and the balls deflate as they cool.

Big deal.

If they don't like it, they can rewrite the rule.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Huh? I don't understand what you're complaining about.

As far as I know so far, the Pats balls are prepared and inflated by the Pats and delivered to the refs to be checked 2 hours before the game.

As far as I know, the refs have nothing to do with the balls before they're delivered.

And if they have a machine for measuring the balls, the officials may not even have to touch them as they're tested.

So, it's simple - they deliver hot balls (no rule against it) and the balls deflate as they cool.

Big deal.

If they don't like it, they can rewrite the rule.

My question is simple, assume the 'filled the footballs with hot air' conspiracy.

The Patriots fill up their footballs with hot air. Immediately after doing so, the footballs temperature will begin moving toward ambient temperature because that's what physics says will happen. How long will the hot footballs remain hot enough for this conspiracy to work? They have to get the footballs to the refs to measure before the temperature lowers too much. There has to be a maximum time limit which allows this to work. We can call this maximum limit t(max).

The equipment guys will have to inflate 12 footballs, which takes a certain amount of time. Then they have to deliver the footballs to the refs, which takes a certain amount of time. Then the refs have to decide that it's time to check the pressure of the balls, which takes a certain amount of time. All of these things add up to a length of time, which we'll call t.

Is this value of t below the allowed t(max)?

Since we don't know much of these values, my original question was asking you the value of t(max). To which you reponded "It'd be easy. For someone with a brain." You're logic for this conclusion was because "It's only math..."

Please do the math.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Please do the math.

You complain you can't do the math because you don't know the values. Same here.

Don't be a jackass. Once you know the values, you add extra air to accommodate for the time it takes to transport and test them.

Jesus. Stop quibbling...

[YardRat]

114deg air inside a football would be easily recognized by touching the outside.

[CommissarSpartacus]

114deg air inside a football would be easily recognized by touching the outside.

Not necessarily.

And there's nothing in the rules about hot footballs 2 1/2 hours before kickoff...

[Joe Fo Sho]

You complain you can't do the math because you don't know the values. Same here.

Don't be a jackass. Once you know the values, you add extra air to accommodate for the time it takes to transport and test them.

Jesus. Stop quibbling...

Some people are too stupid to understand that they're too stupid.

[cookie G]

It's certainly a possibility, isn't it?

Doesn't break any rule as far as I can see....

Of course you can add heated air to a football..people have been using hair dryers to fill air matressses for decades.

So?

Here's the point you're missing..

The Pats have already denied it...

At no time were any of our footballs prepared anywhere other than in the locker room or in an area very close to that – never in a heated room or heated condition. That has absolutely never taken place to anyone’s knowledge or anyone’s recollection. That just didn’t happen.

~~Bill Belichick, yesterday's new conference.

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/01/post_19.html

I guess you could argue that "heated condition" wouldn't mean injecting heated air.

Great...Lex Luthor has now morphed into the Riddler.

He decides to clear the air with a press conference to play word games...I'm in awe of the evil genius behind it.

One more time...

HE denied knowing how the air pressure decreased;
Brady denied knowing how the air pressure decreased;

If they are putting hot air into footballs as you suggest, they were doing it for a reason.

If that's true...one or both lied. Screwing with game footballs doesnt' get done without the knowledge and consent of Belichick, Brady, or both.

And yet...you're expecting people to believe them if they come out and change their story?

[YardRat]

Maybe they fully, or partially, filled the footballs with helium to exacerbate the psi loss with the temperature change. Of course, that isn't against the letter of the rulebook as BB stated either, is it?

[harmonkoz]

Simple solution.

Don't bother reading the thread if you find it so disturbing.

Football is a big tent - the stupid can allow the intelligent a corner...


Right, so quit spreading your stupidity all across the board, you could at least leave us a corner.

[notacon]

They don't have to say it. All they have to say is they don't know. It's not their job to figure out how it could have happened.



A "culture of cheating"? Horse****.

Spygate was a powerplay between Goodell and the Pats. When the Pats started taping signals, there was NO RULE against it. The rule was only changed because the other teams who hadn't been smart enough to think of it themselves ganged up in the competition committee and rammed it through.

The Patriots didn't think it was fair so they made an issue of it.

Until now, that's the ONLY incidence of cheating that was hung on the Pats.

Culture of cheating?

Bull****...

I don't believe one word of that. Prove it with your so many sources within the depths of the NFL.

Goodell and Kraft are thick as thieves. The idea that there is a "power play" between them is ludicrous.

Yes, "culture of cheating" is exactly true!

[CommissarSpartacus]

Right, so quit spreading your stupidity all across the board, you could at least leave us a corner.

Suffer baby, suffer.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I don't believe one word of that. Prove it with your so many sources within the depths of the NFL.

Goodell and Kraft are thick as thieves. The idea that there is a "power play" between them is ludicrous.

Yes, "culture of cheating" is exactly true!

Whether you believe it of not, it's true. I wrote extensively about it over at the Range.

The short story is...

Observation is not against the rules. There is no such thing as stealing signs. If you're stupid enough to wave want you want to do on D from the sidelines and the other team sees it, it's YOUR OWN ****ING FAULT.

In 2000, when some bright boy on the Pats suggested videotaping opposing D coordinators to build a data base of their signs, IT WAS NOT AGAINST THE RULES.

It was just a smart idea.

It wasn't until Eric Mangini took the Jets HC job over Belichek's objections that he ratted out the Pats to the commissioner, who then informed the competetion community.

The competition committee, and all the other teams too stupid not to have thought of it, freaked out, and because NONE of them had the same thing in place, THEY BANNED IT.

The Pats, quite rightly, were pissed, and when I say the Pats, I mean BOTH Belicheck AND Kraft, who felt this was totally unfair and the league USING the competition committee, which sets the rules, as a way to legislate against the Pates BEING SMARTER THAN EVERYONE ELSE.

So, they decided to make an issue of it and dared the Jets to bust them on it, because even though they knew that they were outnumbered in the boardroom, they wanted to defend what they had done by smoking Goodell and the others out.

The rest is history, and the animosity is there on both sides still...

[CommissarSpartacus]

The Pats have already denied it...

....

I guess you could argue that "heated condition" wouldn't mean injecting heated air.



Why ask me when you can answer your own questions?

You guys are doing the same thing with Belichek that you do to me all the time - whining that I won't say things in a way that let's you make your dumb arguments.

If Belichek's haters want to use innuendo and speculation to pin him with the Dr Evil tag. is it so surprising he's careful with what he says?

Seriously.

The Pats balls checked out with the refs.

Then, after a half, they didn't, apparently to the Pats advantage?

Now, I can understand why the Pats would be suspects, but I don't see why it's absurd to say it might NOT be them.

There are others that could benefit from this situation, and that doesn't even rewuire the hot air scenario...

[harmonkoz]

Your take is ridiculous Farticus. Even if they did not do anything against the rules, it is just like Spygate -- where they also were not doing anything against the rules. It goes against the spirit of the game, it goes against good sportsmanship--are these the types of things you want to be teaching children who idolize NFL players? No.

Deflating the balls benefits no one besides the Patriots. Warren Sharp has essentially proven that.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Your take is ridiculous Farticus....

Excuse me if I didn't read any farther.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You guys are doing the same thing with Belichek that you do to me all the time - whining that I won't say things in a way that let's you make your dumb arguments.

I could not care less HOW you answer my question, I would just like you to answer it.


Don't be a jackass. Once you know the values, you add extra air to accommodate for the time it takes to transport and test them.

This is wrong.

[harmonkoz]

Excuse me if I didn't read any farther.

Sorry honest typographical error. My bad.

- - - Updated - - -

You kind of remind me of a fart, maybe thats where it came from. Full of hot air and it smells bad.

[better days]

Excuse me if I didn't read any farther.

Why don't you take your love for the CHEATING Pats* to a Patriots* board?

I'm sure you could find others that will agree with you there, but that is the ONLY board you will find that.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I could not care less HOW you answer my question, I would just like you to answer it.

This is wrong.

1. I have.

2. No, it's not, but if you wish to keep CLAIMING it is, you can always provide an explanation.

There is already a thread where a physics professor supports my position.

Do you have anything other than your ass to support yours?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Sorry honest typographical error. My bad.

- - - Updated - - -

You kind of remind me of a fart, maybe thats where it came from. Full of hot air and it smells bad.

Moron. Grow up...

- - - Updated - - -


Why don't you take your love for the CHEATING Pats* to a Patriots* board?

I'm sure you could find others that will agree with you there, but that is the ONLY board you will find that.

Moron #2...

[harmonkoz]

Moron. Grow up...

Since you are the original moron, I will take that as a compliment.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Since you are the original moron, I will take that as a compliment.

I don't care what you do as long as you behave like you're old enough to have pubic hair.

[Joe Fo Sho]

1. I have.

2. No, it's not, but if you wish to keep CLAIMING it is, you can always provide an explanation.

There is already a thread where a physics professor supports my position.

Do you have anything other than your ass to support yours?

Your answer is wrong though.

Just adding air to the ball initially defeats the entire premise of adding heat to the air to begin with. All that would do is make the final air pressure higher once the football reached ambient temperature. This is not what the Patriots were trying to achieve. See why you're wrong?

What I believe you meant to say was that you can make the air temperature warmer as well as increase the initial pressure in order to account for the delay. While this take seems reasonable at first, it's actually quite ridiculous. What that would mean is that you would have a time window in which the refs would have to measure the balls. If they measure it too soon the pressure is too high, if they wait too long the pressure is too low. The Patriots have no control over this variable, and I doubt they would risk it. If the refs were constantly measuring footballs that were out of spec, it would raise a huge red flag.

None of your little scientist articles address this. They all assume the footballs are measured instantly after the Pats fill them, which is ludicrous.

[Discotrish]

The physics professor has spoken!

http://www.animateit.net/data/media/nov2011/24b3dab0c717.gif

Patti

[CommissarSpartacus]

Your answer is wrong though.

Just adding air to the ball initially defeats the entire premise of adding heat to the air to begin with. All that would do is make the final air pressure higher once the football

No, I'm not wrong.

The object is to have the football at 12.5 when it's tested, so if you put hot air in and the testing takes place 15 minutes later in a colder room, you need to add a bit more air to compensate for the pressure it will lose between filling and testing.

Not that hard to understand.

[better days]

No, I'm not wrong.

The object is to have the football at 12.5 when it's tested, so if you put hot air in and the testing takes place 15 minutes later in a colder room, you need to add a bit more air to compensate for the pressure it will lose between filling and testing.

Not that hard to understand.

In the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP game, 11 of 12 PATRIOTS* footballs were found to be DEFLATED BELOW the level allowed by the NFL...while NONE of the Colts footballs were deflated.

What is so hard to understand about that for you?

[Joe Fo Sho]

No, I'm not wrong.

The object is to have the football at 12.5 when it's tested, so if you put hot air in and the testing takes place 15 minutes later in a colder room, you need to add a bit more air to compensate for the pressure it will lose between filling and testing.

Not that hard to understand.

Wrong again.

The object is certainly not to have the football at 12.5 psi when tested. The object is to have the ball at 10.5 psi during game time. In order to do that, you need to have the ball at between 12.5 and 13.5 psi when the refs measure it. Adding only air pressure initially will increase the final air pressure to something above what they're shooting for.

You also didn't address the rest of my post. Do you not understand it?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Wrong again.

The object is certainly not to have the football at 12.5 psi when tested. The object is to have the ball at 10.5 psi during game time. In order to do that, you need to have the ball at between 12.5 and 13.5 psi when the refs measure it. Adding only air pressure initially will increase the final air pressure to something above what they're shooting for.

You also didn't address the rest of my post. Do you not understand it?

Jesus. Once again...

You fill the ball with hot air. As the ball travels to the place where it's to be tested, if the ambient temperature is lower, the ball loses pressure, so you have to add a little extra so it'll test at 12.5.

Now, what's the other thing I'm supposed to address?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Jesus. Once again...

You fill the ball with hot air. As the ball travels to the place where it's to be tested, if the ambient temperature is lower, the ball loses pressure, so you have to add a little extra so it'll test at 12.5.

Now, what's the other thing I'm supposed to address?

Wow, you really don't get it do you? I thought you were just being argumentative, but I guess you can't help it. Let me try to explain this again just for you.

First, you have to get this '12.5' number out of your head, it doesn't matter. The real number is a range from 12.5 to 13.5. This is the pressure that the refs need measure in order to approve the ball. The final number that the pats want is 10.5, because Tom Brady can't grip a regulation football.

For the sake of arguing, let's assume a few things. Let's say it takes 5-10 minutes to fill 12 footballs and get them to the refs. Let's also assume that the refs, once they receive the game balls, will measure them within 10 - 30 minutes of receiving them. Still with me?

That means that you need to fill the footballs with an air temperature and air pressure of something that will equate to between 12.5 psi and 13.5 psi when measured at 15 to 40 minutes in the future. Once they find this magic combination, they can't just add pressure as the final pressure will be increased. If they wanted to increase the time delay, they could add pressure and also add temperature but this effect would only delay the window in which the balls will be between 12.5 and 13.5 psi. Basically, it would shift the window, it would not increase the window.

My argument is that there is no way to do this and guarantee results. I believe they could do it if they knew the exact time the balls were to be measured. For instance, they could do it if the balls were measured in 15 minutes. They could also do it if the balls were measured in 40 minutes. However, they can't do it if the balls were going to be measured in the 15 - 40 minute range. The pressure would be too high at 15 minutes and too low at 40 minutes.

If the Pats couldn't guarantee results without triggering a red flag, there's no way they would do it.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Wow, you really don't get it do you? I thought you were just being argumentative, but I guess you can't help it. Let me try to explain this again just for you.

First, you have to get this '12.5' number out of your head, it doesn't matter. The real number is a range from 12.5 to 13.5. This is the pressure that the refs need measure in order to approve the ball. The final number that the pats want is 10.5, because Tom Brady can't grip a regulation football.


Gee, he didn't seem to have a problem gripping it in the second half.

And yes, the 12.5 matters, because that's the number you want when the ball's tested.

If the balls deflates past that AFTER the test, it's not against the rules.

Give your head a shake...

[Joe Fo Sho]

[/B]

Gee, he didn't seem to have a problem gripping it in the second half.

And yes, the 12.5 matters, because that's the number you want when the ball's tested.

If the balls deflates past that AFTER the test, it's not against the rules.

Give your head a shake...

You can admit that this is over your head if you don't understand it.

[CommissarSpartacus]

You can admit that this is over your head if you don't understand it.

I understand it all right. You might want to rethink...

[harmonkoz]

You can admit that this is over your head if you don't understand it.

:whoosh:

[Joe Fo Sho]

I understand it all right. You might want to rethink...

The only problem I have is that my background isn't k-12 education. I don't know how to explain this any easier, that's not what I went to college for.

[CommissarSpartacus]

The only problem I have is that my background isn't k-12 education. I don't know how to explain this any easier, that's not what I went to college for.

Really? You went to college? Wow!

[Joe Fo Sho]

Really? You went to college? Wow!

Good one.

[feldspar]

Jesus. Once again...

You fill the ball with hot air. As the ball travels to the place where it's to be tested, if the ambient temperature is lower, the ball loses pressure, so you have to add a little extra so it'll test at 12.5.



If that's what happened, then why did Brady and/or Belichick feel the need to LIE about it and claim complete ignorance on the subject to the world?

Because, IF they filled the balls with hot air, they lied in everybody's face, didn't they? Why do you suppose they would do that, if your unproven theory is correct?

[CommissarSpartacus]

If that's what happened, then why did Brady and/or Belichick feel the need to LIE about it and claim complete ignorance on the subject to the world?

What did they say that was a lie?

[Discotrish]

I love these multi-paragraph physics explanations that ignore the obvious:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gpOwYhKc6DE/UY4bnXfdwCI/AAAAAAAATcE/aOiyIhJD7iE/s1600/crim.gif

Patti

[feldspar]

What did they say that was a lie?

For Christ's sake...IF they filled the balls with hot air to have them deliberately deflate to a certain degree over time, then them saying that they have no idea why the balls were under-inflated would be a lie. No? Did they not say that they have no idea why the balls were under-inflated? The answer is yes, they did.

I'll ask you again. Why would they lie IF filling them with hot air isn't exactly breaking the rules, like you claim?

[CommissarSpartacus]

For Christ's sake...IF they filled the balls with hot air to have them deliberately deflate to a certain degree over time, then them saying that they have no idea why the balls were under-inflated would be a lie. No? Did they not say that they have no idea why the balls were under-inflated? The answer is yes, they did.

I'll ask you again. Why would they lie IF filling them with hot air isn't exactly breaking the rules, like you claim?

That's what YOU say.

I asked what THEY said, you know, quotes and stuff.

After all, if you're going to accuse people of saying something incriminating, it's only fair to post quotes, is it not?

Even brainiacs like you might misunderstand something...

[feldspar]

That's what YOU say.

I asked what THEY said, you know, quotes and stuff.

After all, if you're going to accuse people of saying something incriminating, it's only fair to post quotes, is it not?

Even brainiacs like you might misunderstand something...

You are worse than a lawyer...worse than that the worst kind of lawyer here. It's OK to tell the truth, buddy.

You ****ing understand what I said.

Brady and Belichick both implicitly denied any knowledge whatsoever as to why those balls were under-inflated, and they both did so repeatedly. You ****ing KNOW that. Are you denying they claimed complete ignorance? Stop with the games...you KNOW they did. Again, WHY would they make such denials if they filled the balls with hot air and that's not against the rules?

[CommissarSpartacus]

You are worse than a lawyer...worse than that the worst kind of lawyer here. It's OK to tell the truth, buddy.

You ****ing understand what I said.

Brady and Belichick both implicitly denied any knowledge whatsoever as to why those balls were under-inflated, and they both did so repeatedly. You ****ing KNOW that. Are you denying they claimed complete ignorance? Stop with the games...you KNOW they did. Again, WHY would they make such denials if they filled the balls with hot air and that's not against the rules?

Either tell us exactly what they said or admit you don't wanna do it because they didn't actually say what you're claiming they said.

Thanks...

[feldspar]

Either tell us exactly what they said or admit you don't wanna do it because they didn't actually say what you're claiming they said.

Thanks...

OK, lawyer. Whatever.

Why didn't they say that the balls were filled with hot air, if that's what they did and it's not against the rules to do that?

[CommissarSpartacus]

"We're coming for YOU Dr Belichek - you and your monster!"

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-waMBfdRwUko/TwzCcXiMcGI/AAAAAAAAAT4/JjYzEGEdpcg/s1600/imagesCAO7M13F.jpg

[CommissarSpartacus]

OK, lawyer. Whatever.

Why didn't they say that the balls were filled with hot air, if that's what they did and it's not against the rules to do that?

Why should they?

[feldspar]

Why should they?

Why wouldn't they?

It would save them a lot of grief, no?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Why wouldn't they?

It would save them a lot of grief, no?

"Better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you're an idiot rather than open it and remove all doubt" ~ Abraham Lincoln...

Something for you to keep in mind...

[feldspar]

"Better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you're an idiot rather than open it and remove all doubt" ~ Abraham Lincoln...

Something for you to keep in mind...



"**** you" ~ feldspar

Something for you to keep in mind

If you don't want to have a discussion, then don't pretend to want to. If there is something wrong with telling the truth, I wonder what that could be.

I'll ask you one more time: why wouldn't the Patriots just tell the truth if they did nothing wrong?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Either tell us exactly what they said or admit you don't wanna do it because they didn't actually say what you're claiming they said.

Thanks...

This from the guy who claims spygate was completely legal but can't be bothered to find a source online.


3. It's true. Trust me or not, but I'm not going to look for a link.

Mangini, the pat's DC, was offered the HC job with the Jets. Belichek objected, as his position was ALWAYS that he would support any of his staff taking an HC job IN ANOTHER DIVISION, which is entirely reasonable.

Mangini took it anyway and then went to the commissioner to tell trade secrets.

That's how it started and it's why belichek hates Mangini, who was a protoge of Bill's...

Belichek MADE Mangini's career, then Mangini stabbed him in the back.

[CommissarSpartacus]

This from the guy who claims spygate was completely legal but can't be bothered to find a source online.

Go read the Spygate thread...

[Joe Fo Sho]

Go read the Spygate thread...

I don't want to waste my time, unless you have a specific comment.

[feldspar]

If the balls were filled with hot air, why wouldn't the Patriots just tell the truth if they did nothing wrong?

[Discotrish]

If the balls were filled with hot air, why wouldn't the Patriots just tell the truth if they did nothing wrong?

Exactly.

Patti