Merged all things Brady, cheating, bellicheat, etc.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Hah! I bet this "scientist" is on Al Gore's payroll too with the global warming nonsense!

Christians don't need scientists to tell us who's good and who's evil!

Crucify them!

Ask A Scientist: Deflategate Is Trumped Up Nonsense

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/24/basic-physics-may-defeat-deflategate.html

Ask A Scientist: Deflategate Is Trumped Up Nonsense
Note to scandal seekers: Gases lose volume when it’s cold, meaning the Patriots may not have done anything wrong.

New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick says that he is “not a scientist,” but a basic law of physics taught in high school may well vindicate his team in the controversy dubbed DeflateGate.

On a blackboard, the Ideal Gas Law is written thus:

PV=nRT

The P stands for pressure, the V for volume. The n is the amount of gas, the R a mathematical constant. The T is temperature.

Among other things, the equation establishes that if the volume is a constant such as the inside of a football, then the pressure will vary in accordance with the temperature.

Let’s say the internal pressure of a football is measured indoors, as the footballs were two hours before the AFC Championship game last weekend.

And let’s assume that the temperature inside was in the mid-70s Fahrenheit.

Now we know that the temperature on the field was around 50 degrees when the balls were brought out for the start of the game.

We also know that the temperature soon after dropped into the mid-40s.

And, as calculated by a prominent Boston physicist at the request of the Daily Beast, a 30-degree decrease in temperature would result in a corresponding pressure drop of 1.54 PSI (pounds per square inch.)

“You’re on the right track,” Dr. Michael Naughton, chair of the Department of Physics at Boston College, confirmed when contacted by The Daily Beast on Friday.

Naughton was as cautious as is any good scientist when it comes to speculation, but he ventured, “What’s not unreasonable is that footballs initially measured in a typically warm room and then brought outside and used in a 40s temperature field will have dropped one and a half to two PSI.”

This would mean that balls inflated in the warmth of the indoors to the regulation lower limit of 12.5 PSI—which the Patriots are said to prefer—would have dropped to less than 11 PSI in the first half.

That would explain why all but one of the 12 Patriot game balls came in under the limit when they were tested at the half, triggering DeflateGate and the accompanying accusations of cheating.

All the game balls of the opposing Colts tested within the regulation limit, but that could be because they were initially inflated to the upper limit of 13.5 PSI.

...more...

[CommissarSpartacus]

Oh, I liked this part too...

"In this instance, the details may prove there is no devil involved.

Given his position at Boston College, Naughton was a natural expert to consult regarding DeflateGate, even though he turns out to be a Buffalo Bills fan.

And when the Daily Beast first contacted Naughton on Friday he had already been contacted by Boston-area reporters. He got a call from CNN on Saturday.

After all, the questions were what should have occurred to anybody who did not sleep through high school physics"...


:rofl:

He can't be much of a Bills fan if he's not willing to slander the Patriots!

[chernobylwraiths]

But that one ball pays no attention to any of those laws. That one ball is an outlaw.

It also means that the Colts MUST have cheated instead. Because if ALL the balls would lose 1.5 PSI then the Colts must have overinflated their balls. The Colts should be fined and lose a draft pick. In addition, since they also cheated by losing all their games on purpose to get Luck, they she forfeit him as well. It's only fair.

[CommissarSpartacus]

It also means that the Colts MUST have cheated instead. Because if ALL the balls would lose 1.5 PSI then the Colts must have overinflated their balls.

Not necessarily.

If Luck likes his footballs harder and didn't want them to deflate, they could have been filled with outside air.

Has anyone asked Andrew Luck?

[CommissarSpartacus]

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/01/22/andrew-luck-deflategate-controversy-blown-out-of-proportion/

Andrew Luck: Deflategate controversy ‘blown out of proportion’
01.22.15 at 12:55 am ET
By Christopher Price

On Wednesday, Andrew Luck shrugged off the Deflategate controversy, saying that “€œthings in the media tend to be blown out of proportion.”

Speaking at the Pro Bowl draft, the Colts quarterback appeared to dismiss the uproar of underinflated footballs that were reportedly used by the Patriots in the AFC title game last Sunday in Foxboro.

“Everybody has a preference and our equipment managers sort of handle our footballs in a sense,” Luck told reporters. “I get them as they are, I guess.”

...more...

[CommissarSpartacus]

http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/bucky-gleason/deflategate-much-ado-about-nothing-20150121

Deflategate much ado about nothing

By Bucky Gleason | News Sports Columnist | @TBNbucky | Google+

on January 21, 2015

Sorry, folks, but I’m not biting on Deflategate. The whole thing is asinine and overblown. It would be three paragraphs on Page B6 if it didn’t involve the Patriots and their dastardly coach, that sneaky repeat offender Bill Belichick, leading into Super Bowl XLIX.

Apparently, all but one of the footballs used by the Patriots in their 45-7 win over the Colts in the AFC Championship Game were missing 2 pounds of pressure per square inch. But because their coach already was convicted in another cheating scandal, Spygate, we’re led to believe he’s back to his old tricks.

Let me get a few things straight before we wrap up this nonsense: The Patriots would have beaten the Colts by three touchdowns if Tom Brady threw a Nerf ball with his left arm. Are you telling me that lighter balls allowed LeGarrette Blount to run faster while rushing for 148 yards and three touchdowns?

You want soft? Check the Colts’ run defense.

Cheating isn’t right, but it’s hardly a novel concept. It started in sports when they began keeping score. Players are taught to cheat. If they threw the book at everyone who ever doctored a ball, Gaylord Perry would be doing life in Leavenworth rather enjoying the view from Cooperstown.

The last time anyone checked, the same officiating crew handled footballs for both teams Sunday. They didn’t notice a discernible difference. It took super sleuth linebacker D’Qwell Jackson, who handled the ball once more than Belichick did during the game, to notice one was not like the others?

...more...

[Meathead]

lmao

yes bill and the cheatriots have discovered a magical formula that nobody in the history of football has been able to do - a way to dramatically improve your teams ability to hold onto the ball like it was impossible

and it has nothing to do with the whole lot of underinflated balls they finally got caught with

holy hell thats stupid

and when next year rolls around and they mysteriously come right back to the statistical pack with the rest of the teams it will be puuuuure coincidence

******s

[CommissarSpartacus]

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/1/19/7854479/deflategate-bolsters-the-patriots-haters

DeflateGate Bolsters the Patriots Haters

By Alec Shane on Jan 19 2015,

Say what you want about the NFL, but they certainly know how to generate pageviews.

News recently broke that the league is investigating whether or not the New England Patriots used deflated balls in their 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Championship Game. At one point in the third quarter, the referees stopped play, inspected a football, and replaced it with another. Early Monday morning, local Indianapolis beat writer Bob Kravitz broke the story that the Patriots might have tampered with the footballs, and while it would in no way affect the outcome of the game, should the allegations prove true, there will be some form of repercussions.

I didn't think much about it when I went to bed last night, figuring that it was just some hack trying to get his name out there and generate some controversy. But when I woke up this morning and discovered that the investigation is in fact going to happen, I could only react in one way:

This is brilliant. Absolutely, certifiably BRILLIANT. The NFL strikes again.

There's absolutely no denying that the vast, vast majority of football fans hate the Patriots. And I only use the word "hate" here because there simply isn't a word in the English language that describes just how despised this franchise is outside of New England. There just isn't any way to accurately portray how deeply our beloved Patriots are loathed by pretty much everybody. I'd even go so far to say that, for some fans, hating the Patriots is even more enjoyable than rooting for whatever sadsack group of misfits they have hitched their wagon to. And while said haters are always quick to point to SpyGate or Belichick's demeanor or Tom Brady's fashion sense as the main reason behind their fury, the fact of the matter is that there is one reason - and one reason only - why the Patriots are so universally disliked, and that reason is because they are good. They consistently win games. They have been dominant for 15 straight years now, occupy a large amount of media time, and are difficult to avoid if you consider yourself an NFL fan. Yeah, their coach is standoffish and their quarterback is a prettyboy who takes his fashion very seriously, but the only reason anybody cares about that is because the Patriots win games. If New England didn't win, nobody would care, and there isn't any disputing that. They aren't unique in that, every team that wins a lot is hated, but it's especially relevant in a league specifically designed to prevent this kind of run. And so, because of that the Patriots are hated far more than most.

However, the major problem with the "you win a lot, so I hate you" narrative is one that makes it more or less impossible for fans to come away from that situation without coming across as butthurt and whiny. There is also no real logical reasoning behind it other than petty jealousy and consistently being on the receiving end of a New England-generated beatdown. Thus, when something like SpyGate comes around - an actual, tangible, legitimate reason to not only hate the Patriots, but irrationally justify why they have been so successful for so long - people cling to it like a life raft in a monsoon and will never, at any point, let go. I get it, and I don't blame them; in fact, I encourage it. Hating other teams is fun, and I would never want to deprive somebody of that smug, self-righteous feeling that you get when you have successfully trolled somebody else or gotten under an opposing fan's skin. I will take issue with those out there who truly and genuinely believe that SpyGate is the sole reason for the Patriots' string of success, but those people are few and far between and also wear tinfoil hats as they try to disprove the moon landing. For the most part, I tell Pats haters to take SpyGate and run with it. Bringing that up constantly has to be a lot of fun.

The problem with that, though, is that should the Patriots win Super Bowl XLIX, one of anti-Patriots Nation's favorite lines - the Patriots haven't won a Super Bowl since SpyGate - suddenly goes away. That beautiful, glorious nugget of hate is no longer applicable. The Patriots will be able to silence a lot of haters should they find a way to win against the Seattle Seahawks, and that, I'm sure, has a lot of people fired up about this matchup.

Enter DeflateGate.

...more...

[harmonkoz]

The problem with that, though, is that should the Patriots win Super Bowl XLIX, one of anti-Patriots Nation's favorite lines - the Patriots haven't won a Super Bowl since SpyGate - suddenly goes away. That beautiful, glorious nugget of hate is no longer applicable. The Patriots will be able to silence a lot of haters should they find a way to win against the Seattle Seahawks, and that, I'm sure, has a lot of people fired up about this matchup.

This guy must be sharing your crack pipe Farticus. If the Cheatriots win, and that is a big if... While the line "The Cheatriots have not won a Super Bowl since spygate" may go away, it will be replaced with an entirely new line.

"The Cheatriots Stole their only Super Bowl since SpyGate" and "Don't waste your time on the NFL, it's no different than the WWF"

[Discotrish]

Hah! I bet this "scientist" is on Al Gore's payroll too with the global warming nonsense!

Christians don't need scientists to tell us who's good and who's evil!

Crucify them!


Even the New England season ticket holders aren't trying this hard.

https://i.imgflip.com/gu8lt.jpg

Patti

[MikeInRoch]

A "a prominent Boston physicist", eh?

V, n, and R are constants in this case. Which means that T/P must also stay constant.

At the time of checking the ball, T = 75F ~= 297K. P = (minimally) 12.5 PSI. T/P = 23.76.

At halftime, T = 50F ~= 283K. P = T/23.76 ~= 11.9 PSI.

12.5 - 11.9 does not equal "1.5 to 2 PSI".

[CommissarSpartacus]

A "a prominent Boston physicist", eh?

V, n, and R are constants in this case. Which means that T/P must also stay constant.

At the time of checking the ball, T = 75F ~= 297K. P = (minimally) 12.5 PSI. T/P = 23.76.

At halftime, T = 50F ~= 283K. P = T/23.76 ~= 11.9 PSI.

12.5 - 11.9 does not equal "1.5 to 2 PSI".

Write him a letter. He is a Bills fan after all.

Plus, we don'tknow that T = 75, do we?

Not only that, but every time you test the ball, it loses pressure. How many times was the gauge used?

Sorry, but NONE of this would stand up in court...

[Pinkerton Security]

A "prominent scientist" - Bill Nye - also stated that the "science" that Bill Belichick presented made no sense...

It must also be said that Nye is an admitted Seahawks fan, so I would actually like to see a non-partisan scientist break down whether Belichick's explanation made sense, because my physics experience in college was less than what people would call "passing" lol..

[MikeInRoch]

Write him a letter. He is a Bills fan after all.

Plus, we don'tknow that T = 75, do we?

Not only that, but every time you test the ball, it loses pressure. How many times was the gauge used?

Sorry, but NONE of this would stand up in court...

I was just using the same assumption as the article...

[CommissarSpartacus]

I was just using the same assumption as the article...

I don't remember T = 75 in the article?

Plus, since we don't KNOW who, how and where the balls were tested at half time, we can't verify what they claimed, ie. the balls were uniformly two psi under.

Especially if the guys that "tested" the balls at half time were the same guys that initiated the complaint.

You would think objectivity would demand that people use the same amount of thought into considering the pats may be innocent as considering they're guilty, wouldn't it.

Too bad I don't see this here, just a desperate attempt to pin something on the Pats, no matter what the facts...

[gebobs]

And, as calculated by a prominent Boston physicist at the request of the Daily Beast, a 30-degree decrease in temperature would result in a corresponding pressure drop of 1.54 PSI (pounds per square inch.)
Negative. It's about half that. Not sure how a prominent physicist botched that.

[gebobs]

I don't remember T = 75 in the article?

"And let’s assume that the temperature inside was in the mid-70s Fahrenheit."

It's an easy calculation: P2 = P1*T2/T1 though temperature has to be in either kelvins or rankine.

[Joe Fo Sho]

"And let’s assume that the temperature inside was in the mid-70s Fahrenheit."

HA.

Don't try to reason with this guy, he won't understand it.

[Bill Cody]

Bellichick claimed they did their own test where they rub the balls down to get a certain tackiness and then inflated them to 12.5 psi indoors, which is what they ask the refs to do. His test showed that the psi dropped about a pound after the effects of the rubbing wore off and the ball reached equilibrium. Then you have the balls going outside for 3 hours before they're retested at halftime which could drop the psi even further. Is that true? No idea. But I would think the league would have to run their own experiment on this. Maybe the Colts do their ball prep earlier in the day. Maybe they inflate them to 13.5 not 12.5. Does anyone know?

And here's the other thing: I read somewhere that since they had the World Cup soccer at Foxboro 5-6 years ago they have cameras that cover every inch of the stadium. All they need to do is find the camera that covered the area where the bag of balls was kept on the sideline. The drill is after the refs finish their inspection the balls are brought to the sideline. So if some ball boy went in to the ball bag to let air out, it is on tape. Or it isn't.

[Pinkerton Security]

So if some ball boy went in to the ball bag to let air out, it is on tape. Or it isn't.

..or the NFL will destroy the evidence the same way they did with the Spygate evidence...

[Bill Cody]

..or the NFL will destroy the evidence the same way they did with the Spygate evidence...

either way if there is evidence the patriots will get slammed just as they did in Spygate. I really believe we will know what happened on this in the end.

[Joe Fo Sho]

either way if there is evidence the patriots will get slammed just as they did in Spygate.

Another slap on the wrist, great.


I really believe we will know what happened on this in the end.

I hope you're right.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Negative. It's about half that. Not sure how a prominent physicist botched that.

We established previously that a 50 degree drop in temp would do it.

50 + 50 is a 100, or 2 degrees hotter than body temperature.

Even 110 is only lukewarm....

[Joe Fo Sho]

We established previously that a 50 degree drop in temp would do it.

50 + 50 is a 100, or 2 degrees hotter than body temperature.

Even 110 is only lukewarm....

You should stop using this argument if you understand how it works in the real world.

[gebobs]

We established previously that a 50 degree drop in temp would do it.


Correct. And that would be an example of unfairly skirting the rules.

[DynaPaul]

The math doesn't add up, I'm not buying it and I took Physics I and II in college.

[coastal]

Bill Nye says blow me...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2015/01/25/bill-nye-says-bill-belichick-made-no-sense-on-deflategate-explanation/?tid=sm_tw

[stuckincincy]

It would be simple to cobble up a needle that would allow for a fairly consistent release of prevailing ball pressure...small enough to be easily palmed. All it takes, then, is the ball boy to reach into the bag, insert the modified assembly, bleed the ball, and then remove it from the bag.

[Ingtar33]

Hah! I bet this "scientist" is on Al Gore's payroll too with the global warming nonsense!

Christians don't need scientists to tell us who's good and who's evil!

Crucify them!

Ask A Scientist: Deflategate Is Trumped Up Nonsense

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/24/basic-physics-may-defeat-deflategate.html

Ask A Scientist: Deflategate Is Trumped Up Nonsense
Note to scandal seekers: Gases lose volume when it’s cold, meaning the Patriots may not have done anything wrong.

New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick says that he is “not a scientist,” but a basic law of physics taught in high school may well vindicate his team in the controversy dubbed DeflateGate.

On a blackboard, the Ideal Gas Law is written thus:

PV=nRT

The P stands for pressure, the V for volume. The n is the amount of gas, the R a mathematical constant. The T is temperature.

Among other things, the equation establishes that if the volume is a constant such as the inside of a football, then the pressure will vary in accordance with the temperature.

Let’s say the internal pressure of a football is measured indoors, as the footballs were two hours before the AFC Championship game last weekend.

And let’s assume that the temperature inside was in the mid-70s Fahrenheit.

Now we know that the temperature on the field was around 50 degrees when the balls were brought out for the start of the game.

We also know that the temperature soon after dropped into the mid-40s.

And, as calculated by a prominent Boston physicist at the request of the Daily Beast, a 30-degree decrease in temperature would result in a corresponding pressure drop of 1.54 PSI (pounds per square inch.)

“You’re on the right track,” Dr. Michael Naughton, chair of the Department of Physics at Boston College, confirmed when contacted by The Daily Beast on Friday.

Naughton was as cautious as is any good scientist when it comes to speculation, but he ventured, “What’s not unreasonable is that footballs initially measured in a typically warm room and then brought outside and used in a 40s temperature field will have dropped one and a half to two PSI.”

This would mean that balls inflated in the warmth of the indoors to the regulation lower limit of 12.5 PSI—which the Patriots are said to prefer—would have dropped to less than 11 PSI in the first half.

That would explain why all but one of the 12 Patriot game balls came in under the limit when they were tested at the half, triggering DeflateGate and the accompanying accusations of cheating.

All the game balls of the opposing Colts tested within the regulation limit, but that could be because they were initially inflated to the upper limit of 13.5 PSI.

...more...

and the colt's footballs were within spec all game long because they are mutant footballs that ignore the laws of thermodynamics?

I'm not arguing the science, but the colts balls were tested as well and all 12 footballs were within spec.

furthermore, the nfl inflated the pats balls at halftime, and then measured them after the game and found they were all up to spec.

seems to me like someone was doing something.

[tomz]

Write him a letter. He is a Bills fan after all.

Plus, we don'tknow that T = 75, do we?

Not only that, but every time you test the ball, it loses pressure. How many times was the gauge used?

Sorry, but NONE of this would stand up in court...


Only if the jury was packed with dolts. If the temp was +/- 5 degrees in either place the maximum error would be a few percent, not a factor of 3!!!! The change due to gauge is minimal enough to be less than that. And the assumption is that testing was done indoors and outdoors respectively. Is that true?

[Buckets]

A "a prominent Boston physicist", eh?

V, n, and R are constants in this case. Which means that T/P must also stay constant.

At the time of checking the ball, T = 75F ~= 297K. P = (minimally) 12.5 PSI. T/P = 23.76.

At halftime, T = 50F ~= 283K. P = T/23.76 ~= 11.9 PSI.

12.5 - 11.9 does not equal "1.5 to 2 PSI".

It was 40 at half time.

[Buckets]

Negative. It's about half that. Not sure how a prominent physicist botched that.

Lets see your calculations.

[jamze132]

I'll play along. Lets say the Patriots do inflate them to 12.5, but they probably do in in the sauna so when the balls go outside, they drop significantly.

[notacon]

Like I said in another of the seemingly endless threads defending the Pats cheating.

Sparky has elevated trolling to an art form.

His argument is for ****...but, this is entertaining.

[DesertFox24]

First off as an engineer Bill is correct that outside conditions can effect the balls. That being said Boston is near sea level so 1 atmosphere pressure, Broncos stadium is over a mile so there will be a slight change in air pressure. The aspect that no one is talking about is that the refs inspect all the balls prior to them going out on the field, so at one point both teams balls were inflated correctly. For their to be a 2 psi drop in 11/12 balls and none of the colts ball throws the atmospheric or weather conditions out. Do I think it made a big different no. That being said the ball will be a lot easier to hold onto and grip and that is a fact.

[gebobs]

Lets see your calculations.

P2 = P1*T2/T1. Plug and chug.

[gebobs]

I'll play along. Lets say the Patriots do inflate them to 12.5, but they probably do in in the sauna so when the balls go outside, they drop significantly.

Of course. If they did that, that would be willful flaunting of the rules. Not exactly against the rules, but against the spirit of the rules and level sportsmanship. The problem is, no one wants to have to write the rule book in such minute detail to account for every possible way to slant the game. At some point, you have to depend on the competitors sense of fair play.

Then again, I would hope the officials in charge would have the sense to let any balls sit for a while ambient game temperature. These aren't concrete blocks. If a ball is above or below temperature, it will settle in close enough to test in short order.

But I don't think that's what happened here since this doesn't account for the return to kosher pressure after the game.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I'll play along. Lets say the Patriots do inflate them to 12.5, but they probably do in in the sauna so when the balls go outside, they drop significantly.

The logistics of this are ridiculous. You can't guarantee that the refs are going to measure the pressure in time for the psi to be within the legal range. As soon as the footballs are in ambient temperature, the pressure begins to deflate. If the refs take too long, the pressure is too low, if they measure the pressure too quickly, the pressure is too high. If the refs see a pattern of the footballs the Pats give them being under or overinflated, it throws up a huge red flag. No way the Pats risk it.

[SpikedLemonade]

Of course. If they did that, that would be willful flaunting of the rules. Not exactly against the rules, but against the spirit of the rules and level sportsmanship. The problem is, no one wants to have to write the rule book in such minute detail to account for every possible way to slant the game. At some point, you have to depend on the competitors sense of fair play.

I agree with that 100%.

It is the way I feel about the Sabres losing games on purpose for the past 2 years.

[Mike]

Here is the real question:

"why does the NFL require the Teams to provide their own balls (12 of them each) instead of providing all 24 and having each team play with all the balls throughout the game?"

If your the NFL would you want each team to play with identical balls?

[Mike]

UPDATE:

"NFL has zeroed in on an attendant who took the Balls to another room after they were inspected by refs"
per NFL.com

&

Brady's Father on subject "it will end badly"

ANY SUGGESTION THAT THE NFL IS LOOKING THE OTHER WAY IS ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS!!!

http://www.nfl.com/m/share?p=/news/story/0ap3000000463606/article/tom-bradys-father-it-will-end-badly-in-new-england&campaign=social-owned-twitter-nflmobile_article_0ap3000000463606&cvosrc=sm_owned.twitter.nflmobile_article_0ap3000000463606

[gebobs]

The logistics of this are ridiculous. You can't guarantee that the refs are going to measure the pressure in time for the psi to be within the legal range. As soon as the footballs are in ambient temperature, the pressure begins to deflate. If the refs take too long, the pressure is too low, if they measure the pressure too quickly, the pressure is too high. If the refs see a pattern of the footballs the Pats give them being under or overinflated, it throws up a huge red flag. No way the Pats risk it.

Yeah, there's no way they do that, or even as Shiva has suggested, warm them to 110 F. They will be at ambient temperature within minutes.

I think the likely scenario is that the balls were tested ahead of time. The Pats were at the low end, the Colts probably the upper. I don't know why they would, but maybe the officials do their halftime checks without letting the Pats' balls warm up a bit and they are under spec by 1 psi and the Colts' are right at the lower spec. After the game, they let them warm up, back to what they were before.

Surely the officials must be aware that this happens so why this was news, I can't say. I would love to know what their SOP is for this. It seems woefully inadequate.

[better days]

If Brady feels great after the 16 game season, I think HGH has more to do with that than his diet.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Yeah, there's no way they do that, or even as Shiva has suggested, warm them to 110 F. They will be at ambient temperature within minutes.

I think the likely scenario is that the balls were tested ahead of time. The Pats were at the low end, the Colts probably the upper. I don't know why they would, but maybe the officials do their halftime checks without letting the Pats' balls warm up a bit and they are under spec by 1 psi and the Colts' are right at the lower spec. After the game, they let them warm up, back to what they were before.

Surely the officials must be aware that this happens so why this was news, I can't say. I would love to know what their SOP is for this. It seems woefully inadequate.

That was the point I was trying to make to him. I tried to explain like 5 times, the guy doesn't understand things.

The problem is that the Pats balls dropped 2 psi. If the Colts balls had the same effect, they should be below the legal limit no matter what their original pressure was. The Pats cheated, we're just not sure how. Apparently the equipment guy is a suspect now and I'm sure Brady is going to say he acted alone.

[Strongman]

Belichick's DeflateGate story is 'BS' says football maker

Everyone from Bill Nye the Science Guy to Saturday Night Live is weighing in on the DeflateGate scandal, and now the official manufacturer of the league's footballs -- Wilson Sporting Goods -- has joined the debate from Arizona, per a report from Boston.com.

The company claims that all of its footballs are set at the regulation air pressure when they are delivered to the NFL, and that there is little chance that a simple change in temperature could have significantly deflated the balls during the AFC Championship.

The company has a booth at this year's NFL Experience -- an interactive fanfest held in the days leading up to the Super Bowl at the Phoenix Convention Center -- where visitors can watch the creation of Wilson's league-regulated footballs from the initial bladder and lacing process, through the pressurization stage, and to the final weight check.

Wilson representative Jim Jenkins explained the process:

"[It] goes to 120 pounds for one minute, then back down to 13, and then when it comes out, see how nice everything looks? All the seams are perfect, laces are perfect. That's what that does right there and it comes out 13 pounds per square inch."

Jenkins confirmed that every single ball that leaves the factory is set at a pressure between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch, the official legal limit set by the NFL. When asked about Bill Belichick's theory that the cold temperatures and wet conditions likely contributed to the ball being underinflated in the AFC title game, Jenkins laughed and replied, "That's BS."

[CommissarSpartacus]

and the colt's footballs were within spec all game long because they are mutant footballs that ignore the laws of thermodynamics?


The Colts could have filled their balls with cold air outside. Therefore no temperature drop and no deflation.

Probably that's what happened when they filled the balls up at half time. They did it outside.

See, the funny thing is EVERYONE went off on this calling the Pats cheaters and it wasn't until I mentioned the temperature issue the first time (before any of the media chimed in) that people even THOUGHT about it.

But the fact is that iof you fill a ball with warm air to a certain psi, if you take it into the cold, it will lose pressure. That's not cheating. If people want to claim it "skirted" the rules, the only people to blame are the people that wrote the rule. Don't hate the Pats for NOT BREAKING THE RULES, just cu2 you feel like it did.

[CommissarSpartacus]

BS

Dude, the Wilson guy can only attest to how the balls leave the factory, and it only takes an air pressure gauge to deflate one.

And the fact is that footballs, like tires, lose air pressure as the temperature drops. It's high school physics.

Jenkins is just covering his company's ass...

[Discotrish]

Hah! I bet this "scientist" is on Al Gore's payroll too with the global warming nonsense!

Christians don't need scientists to tell us who's good and who's evil!

Crucify them!

Ask A Scientist: Deflategate Is Trumped Up Nonsense

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/24/basic-physics-may-defeat-deflategate.html

Ask A Scientist: Deflategate Is Trumped Up Nonsense
Note to scandal seekers: Gases lose volume when it’s cold, meaning the Patriots may not have done anything wrong.

New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick says that he is “not a scientist,” but a basic law of physics taught in high school may well vindicate his team in the controversy dubbed DeflateGate.

On a blackboard, the Ideal Gas Law is written thus:

PV=nRT

The P stands for pressure, the V for volume. The n is the amount of gas, the R a mathematical constant. The T is temperature.



LRA + UF = DS

Locker Room Attendant plus Unsupervised Footballs = Deflation Scandal

Patti

[Strongman]

Dude, the Wilson guy can only attest to how the balls leave the factory, and it only takes an air pressure gauge to deflate one.

And the fact is that footballs, like tires, lose air pressure as the temperature drops. It's high school physics.

Jenkins is just covering his company's ass...

Dude,

Don't you think that Wilson, like I don't know, basically everyone else in manufacturing has a QA department that extensively tests their products under varying conditions? They know how their products perform on the field better than anybody else...

In the tens of thousands of games played over the years, please explain how no one else has noticed this deflation before?

They are cheating!

[YardRat]

I think it's funnier than **** that physicists are lining up on both sides of this argument, some saying it's possible, some saying it isn't. These people can't even agree on something as simple as temperature's affect on air pressure, yet some still swallow whole the 97% consensus on global warming propaganda. What a hoot.

That being said, there have been differing opinions from all kinds of 'experts' (scientists, QB's, etc) but the majority seem to be falling on the 'liar, liar, pants on fire' side of the fence.

[Discotrish]

Somebody needs to get Lee Harvey Equipment Guy into protective custody!

Patti

[CommissarSpartacus]

Dude,

Don't you think that Wilson, like I don't know, basically everyone else in manufacturing has a QA department that extensively tests their products under varying conditions? They know how their products perform on the field better than anybody else...


It has nothing to do with the footballs.

It's about the air INSIDE the football and there isn't one set of physics for Wilson and another set for the rest of the world...

[Discotrish]

It has nothing to do with the footballs.

It's about the air INSIDE the football and there isn't one set of physics for Wilson and another set for the rest of the world...

Still with this?

I think you've gone autistic on us.

Patti

[harmonkoz]

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140209013353/creepypasta/images/a/a9/Don't_Feed_the_Troll.jpeg

[Strongman]

It has nothing to do with the footballs.

It's about the air INSIDE the football and there isn't one set of physics for Wilson and another set for the rest of the world...

Please give a rational explanation on why, in the many thousands of games played in colder weather, this hasn't been observed before?

[coastal]

Please give a rational explanation on why, in the many thousands of games played in colder weather, this hasn't been observed before?
Because then he couldn't get attention?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Please give a rational explanation on why, in the many thousands of games played in colder weather, this hasn't been observed before?

What hasn't been observed before? That the ball loses pressure as the air inside it cools?

[sukie]

What hasn't been observed before? That the ball loses pressure as the air inside it cools?
for 11 of 12 balls for one of two teams playing in equal conditions? It could be suggested that the Colts over inflated against the rules to account for the loss of pressure. THAT would also be cheating

[CommissarSpartacus]

for 11 of 12 balls for one of two teams playing in equal conditions? It could be suggested that the Colts over inflated against the rules to account for the loss of pressure. THAT would also be cheating

When the Colts turned the balls over, they were within limits. 12.5 - 13.5.

When they were tested at halftime, they were only reported as still within limits, which could be 12.5. So they could have lost a psi and still be okay.

[DynaPaul]

I actually saw the accused Patriots attendant yesterday. He didn't seem that stressed out despite all of the blame coming down on him and he even let me take his picture.

17264

[CommissarSpartacus]

You stay loyal to the Godfather, he takes care of you.

Loyalty is important.

Why do you think none of Belichek's former players say anything bad about the guy?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Kraft knows he has nothing to worry about...

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/american-football/30997068


Deflate-gate: New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft defends side
Super Bowl XLIX

Date: Sunday, 1 February

New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft has denied any wrongdoing by his team as NFL's 'deflate-gate' rumbles on.

The Super Bowl finalists are under investigation after being found to have used under-inflated balls in their 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts.

Kraft believes "unconditionally" that the Patriots have "done nothing inappropriate" or violated NFL rules.

He also wants the NFL to apologise if his side, who face the Seattle Seahawks in Sunday's Super Bowl, are cleared.

Kraft went on to defend Patriots coach Bill Belichick and quarterback Tom Brady, the two men at the centre of the saga.

"I am disappointed in how this entire matter has been handled and reported upon," said Kraft.

"I would expect and hope that the league would apologise to our entire team and in particular Bill Belichick and Tom Brady for what they have had to endure this past week."

...more...

[sukie]

When the Colts turned the balls over, they were within limits. 12.5 - 13.5.

When they were tested at halftime, they were only reported as still within limits, which could be 12.5. So they could have lost a psi and still be okay.

Are you suggesting that the balls the colts used were inflated to the max allowable so when they had a pressure reduction due to temp they were within limits... and the Pat's balls were inflated to the lower limit thus falling out of the range? (except that one magic ball) This should easily be discovered if the refs pre game had records of what the teams balls were inflated to pregame.

If such a record is (obviously) not kept... I assume it will be from now on.

Why teams are allowed to have posession of game balls , 12 aside , is silly. The home team should provide all 24 which the league has control of throughout.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Are you suggesting that the balls the colts used were inflated to the max allowable so when they had a pressure reduction due to temp they were within limits... and the Pat's balls were inflated to the lower limit thus falling out of the range? (except that one magic ball) This should easily be discovered if the refs pre game had records of what the teams balls were inflated to pregame.

He's suggesting exactly that. So the Pats balls lost 2 psi while the Colts balls only lost a maximum of 1. Must have been colder on the home side of the outdoor stadium.


Why teams are allowed to have posession of game balls , 12 aside , is silly. The home team should provide all 24 which the league has control of throughout.

That's how it used to be (except the home team had control of all 24) until 2006 when Tom Brady petitioned the league and got the rule changed. Then he threw 50 TDs in 2007, after a year of only throwing 24 TDs in 2006.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Are you suggesting that the balls the colts used were inflated to the max allowable so when they had a pressure reduction due to temp they were within limits... and the Pat's balls were inflated to the lower limit thus falling out of the range?


Yup.

[Novacane]

boo hoo

[Joe Fo Sho]

First Tom Brady says his feelings got hurt, now Kraft is crying for an apology. What a bunch of babies.

[Meathead]

im sorry that you wont find a boil free area of my ass to kiss

[Strongman]

Did Kraft apologize when his quarterback decided to insult the City of Buffalo?

[CommissarSpartacus]

LOL!

Haters are funny and sad all at the same time.

Bill Belichek is DE DEBBIL!

[Joe Fo Sho]

LOL!

Haters are funny and sad all at the same time.

Bill Belichek is DE DEBBIL!

Who here is sad? And did anyone say anything about Belichick?

Now you're just talking to hear yourself talk. Quit slobbin on the Pats knob, guy.

[sukie]

That's how it used to be (except the home team had control of all 24) until 2006 when Tom Brady petitioned the league and got the rule changed. Then he threw 50 TDs in 2007, after a year of only throwing 24 TDs in 2006.
I did not know this.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I did not know this.

It's actually not a bad rule if you don't abuse it. Peyton Manning was also a proponent of this rule change. He mentioned that sometimes during away games, he'd be down late in the game with one drive left and the football they would bring in would be different than the rest of the game, more slippery and what not. He hasn't been caught abusing the rule like Brady did though. There's also not a spike in his stats like Brady, and his teams fumble rate didn't drop significantly in 2007 like the Patriots did.

[EricStratton]

What exactly has the NFL done wrong here. They received a notice from a team about the inflation of the footballs are are investigating it.

The fans, media and Patriots (calling three press conferences to date) have blown this up but the NFL keeps on plugging along at a snails pace.

[coastal]

My Fool's Gold campaign is amateur at best compared to this troll job.

[Joe Fo Sho]

My Fool's Gold campaign is amateur at best compared to this troll job.

Truth, but at least you kept it to one thread. That thread happened to be like 150 pages, but still.

This guy is spreading his seed all over this forum, like he would do on Brady's back.

[Historian]

The best defense is a good offense.

At least Kraft and cronies have learned that much.

[sukie]

It's actually not a bad rule if you don't abuse it. Peyton Manning was also a proponent of this rule change. He mentioned that sometimes during away games, he'd be down late in the game with one drive left and the football they would bring in would be different than the rest of the game, more slippery and what not. He hasn't been caught abusing the rule like Brady did though. There's also not a spike in his stats like Brady, and his teams fumble rate didn't drop significantly in 2007 like the Patriots did.

The other team has to play with the new slippery ball as well. It's like with .6 on the clock and Lebron demanding a ball change.

[gebobs]

I find it hard to believe that the officials are so stupid as to not understand that a ball inflated to the minimum pressure is not going to fall under spec when cooled 30 degrees. Until we find out what the test conditions were, what the actual readings were, it's anyone's guess what happened.

[Discotrish]

Tom should sue for defamation.

Pete Rose is still awaiting his apology.

Patti

[Mr. Miyagi]

LOL!

Haters are funny and sad all at the same time.

Bill Belichek is DE DEBBIL!
Who let this clown in?

F U Kraft.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Tom should sue for defamation.

Pete Rose is still awaiting his apology.

Patti
So are Bernie Madoff, Barry Bonds, and Milli Vanill.

I'm sure all those haters were just jealous that they had so much success.

[trapezeus]

the patriots have the worst PR team in the history of PR. They should keep their mouth shut since a lot of this is pointing directly at them for doing multiple illegal things and if deflate gate isn't the thing, they are going to get them.

the more they talk, the more they are going to take down others with them. but what's the old saying? "no honor amongst thieves?"
They scurry like rats to save themselves.

[SpikedLemonade]

Did Kraft apologize when his quarterback decided to insult the City of Buffalo?

What did he say?

[justasportsfan]

Not only will he get an apology but he will get it in the form of Goddell kneeling down with a dozen flowers on his doorstep.

[gebobs]

What did he say?

I suppose this...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/02/travel/tom-brady-buffalo-hotels/

[SpikedLemonade]

I suppose this...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/02/travel/tom-brady-buffalo-hotels/

"I don't know if any of you guys have ever been to the hotels in Buffalo, but they're not the nicest places in the world"

That's it?

LOL!!!!

[Night Train]

Pretend I'm Goodell and throw $$ at me to make it go away.

[THATHURMANATOR]

**** off Robert Kraft.

[EricStratton]

My Fool's Gold campaign is amateur at best compared to this troll job.

He's turned into Eddie Harris.

[CommissarSpartacus]

... They received a notice from a team about the inflation of the footballs are are investigating it.


They WHAT? A notice from what team?

[CommissarSpartacus]

BTW, are the haters starting to get the sinking feeling that the Pats will be fully exonerated and they'll look like total fools again?

Time to start backtracking guys if your credibility means anything to you.

Just a friendly warning...

[Joe Fo Sho]

Time to start backtracking guys if your credibility means anything to you.

Or what, the big bad hindsight police are gonna come after us??


...

On a side note, why do you use so many ellipses? It seems like after almost everything you say you put an ellipses. Why do you do that?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Or what, the big bad hindsight police are gonna come after us??

On a side note, why do you use so many ellipses? It seems like after almost everything you say you put an ellipses. Why do you do that?

1. Yup.

2. I generally use ellipses only at the ends of posts to seem more conversational, and also to indicate I've made my point but more can be said if necessary. I guess...

[Tatonka]

Im sorry, Mr. Kraft. I'm sorry that you can go **** off. Im not sorry about watching the Hawks beat your ass in the superbowl. That will be truly entertaining.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I find it hard to believe that the officials are so stupid as to not understand that a ball inflated to the minimum pressure is not going to fall under spec when cooled 30 degrees. Until we find out what the test conditions were, what the actual readings were, it's anyone's guess what happened.

Thank you...

[CommissarSpartacus]

I find it hard to believe that the officials are so stupid as to not understand that a ball inflated to the minimum pressure is not going to fall under spec when cooled 30 degrees. Until we find out what the test conditions were, what the actual readings were, it's anyone's guess what happened.

Who knows how accurate the various different pressure gauges are? If one was used in the refs room and one was used on the field, they may not read the same. Most gauges in industry have to be calibrated on a regular basis.

Plus, as I believe portable air pressure gauges are still meahanical, they need the release of a certain amount of air to do the test. So, if you test the ball 5 times in a row, everytime you take a reading there'll be less air in the football, because you've been using it to do the tests...

[trapezeus]

BTW, are the haters starting to get the sinking feeling that the Pats will be fully exonerated and they'll look like total fools again?

Time to start backtracking guys if your credibility means anything to you.

Just a friendly warning...

the level of intellectual dishonesty in your postings are tiring.

you are a genius. just like belichick. Are you happy? will you go away?

[Meathead]

BTW, are the haters starting to get the sinking feeling that the Pats will be fully exonerated and they'll look like total fools again?

Time to start backtracking guys if your credibility means anything to you.

Just a friendly warning...

nick rolovich

[EricStratton]

They WHAT? A notice from what team?


Before every game each team give a list of things to look for to the officials, the Colts listed the inflation of footballs on their list according to Mort during the pro bowl pregame show Sunday.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Before every game each team give a list of things to look for to the officials, the Colts listed the inflation of footballs on their list according to Mort during the pro bowl pregame show Sunday.

Did Mort give a reason as to why it occurred to the Colts to ask for it?

[DynaPaul]

This reminds me of that time Dick Cheney shot a guy in the face and made the guy hold an apology press conference as he was leaving the hospital.

[sukie]

I wonder how much money a hand held pressure gauge calibrator makes and are there bennies? I love it when Sparty gets all sciencey... Why would there be a need for more than 1 gauge? Pre game inspection... 1 gauge... Pats controversy checked with the same gauge... and it's not like checking a car tire pressure concerning air lost. The pin once inserted seals the opening otherwise it wouldn't work. You could probably insert, pull out, insert, pull out, for a minute (sound familiar? I kid) with no observable pressure loss.

[EricStratton]

Did Mort give a reason as to why it occurred to the Colts to ask for it?


Based on the game they played earlier in the year

[CommissarSpartacus]

I wonder how much money a hand held pressure gauge calibrator makes and are there bennies? I love it when Sparty gets all sciencey... Why would there be a need for more than 1 gauge? Pre game inspection... 1 gauge... Pats controversy checked with the same gauge... and it's not like checking a car tire pressure concerning air lost. The pin once inserted seals the opening otherwise it wouldn't work. You could probably insert, pull out, insert, pull out, for a minute (sound familiar? I kid) with no observable pressure loss.

Don't speculate, do a test. Buy a football and a buch of different pressure gauges and a compressor and a foot pump and go to town. Make a video. Post it on youtube. Become famous. The guy that PROVED the Pats cheated. You'll be a hero. Never have to buy your own drinks ever again.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Based on the game they played earlier in the year

And what happened in the earlier game that prompted it?

[EricStratton]

Apparently two picks by someone.

I didn't know the teams game a list of things to look for but I guess it's part of the meeting teams have the day before the game with the officials. They point out stuff like potential trick plays (tackle eligible etc) and anything they have seen on tape from the other teams. Mort (or Schefter, they were both at the table) mentioned it was in that report.



http://www.wcvb.com/sports/nfl-investigation-into-deflated-patriots-footballs-ongoing/30840298

It;s mentioned in here

[gebobs]

Who knows how accurate the various different pressure gauges are? If one was used in the refs room and one was used on the field, they may not read the same. Most gauges in industry have to be calibrated on a regular basis.ALL gauges need to be calibrated on a regular basis. Gauge repeatability and reproducibility are important testing metrics. Variation between known sample readings can be due to gauge or operator error. Any robust test method, done under controlled conditions, is going to account for both. If their test method doesn't, it's crap.


Plus, as I believe portable air pressure gauges are still meahanical, they need the release of a certain amount of air to do the test. So, if you test the ball 5 times in a row, everytime you take a reading there'll be less air in the football, because you've been using it to do the tests...

I doubt it. A gauge is not going to release even close to a cc of air. A football has a volume of about 4200 cc. You could do a hundred tests and not change the pressure more than 0.1 psi.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I wonder how much money a hand held pressure gauge calibrator makes and are there bennies?

You can actually make pretty decent money doing that stuff, provided you work for a NIST certified Calibration Lab. The problem is that you'll have to be familiar with more than just pressure gauges and the job can probably get pretty repetitive.


I love it when Sparty gets all sciencey...

He tries so hard, right?


Why would there be a need for more than 1 gauge? Pre game inspection... 1 gauge... Pats controversy checked with the same gauge... and it's not like checking a car tire pressure concerning air lost. The pin once inserted seals the opening otherwise it wouldn't work. You could probably insert, pull out, insert, pull out, for a minute (sound familiar? I kid) with no observable pressure loss.

There is actually some logic to using multiple gauges. If one is out of calibration, you can decrease your odds of getting a misread by using more than one gauge. My understanding is that they used 2 different gauges at halftime. Generally though, if you used the same gauge pregame and at halftime, the difference in pressure is probably a valid measurement.

If the Pats wanted to challenge it, they could send both of the gauges to a calibration lab to check and see if they are out of spec. This should be done by the NFL once a year anyway. If the gauge comes back out of tolerance, they need to check the data that this particular gauge measured, between the last time it was calibrated and now, and see if it affects anything important. It's less likely to matter when it comes to the NFL, but this is how it's done at Nationally Recognized Test Labs.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Apparently two picks by someone.

I didn't know the teams game a list of things to look for but I guess it's part of the meeting teams have the day before the game with the officials. They point out stuff like potential trick plays (tackle eligible etc) and anything they have seen on tape from the other teams. Mort (or Schefter, they were both at the table) mentioned it was in that report.

SOMEONE still has to pipe up and say "I think the inflation levels of the Pats footballs are low and should be checked at half time." Who was that person and why did that occur to him? They tried to use D'qwell Jackson as the guy, but he denied it. Now it's some anonymous guy on the Colts who convinces the team to put it ion the pre-game list of things to watch for?

I'd like to know who the guy is.

Did the league put him up to it?

Gamblers? Apparently a lot of money went down originally on the Pats. 3 1/2 point spread for Seattle dropped to pick em after Deflate gate. Hmmmmm.

[Discotrish]

**** off Robert Kraft.

I was thinking yesterday we needed your input on this! I almost put out an alert.

Patti

[gebobs]

Thank you...
That's not to say this is "trumped up". If the allegations are true, they would have serious implications for the NFL and deserve to be investigated thoroughly. At the very least, there needs to be a thorough review of how the balls are controlled. In my opinion, each team should use the same balls, straight from Wilson. If these whiny millionaire qbs can't throw them, that's their problem. It didn't bother Otto Graham.

[CommissarSpartacus]

https://images.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVjkz.MdU2H4A.FInnIlQ?p=air+pressure+gauge&fr=&fr2=piv-web&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-001

[ticatfan]

Instead of a million links, is it better to play with a deflated ball?

[CommissarSpartacus]

That's not to say this is "trumped up". If the allegations are true, they would have serious implications for the NFL and deserve to be investigated thoroughly. At the very least, there needs to be a thorough review of how the balls are controlled. In my opinion, each team should use the same balls, straight from Wilson. If these whiny millionaire qbs can't throw them, that's their problem. It didn't bother Otto Graham.

I have no doubt Otto Graham didn't use virgin balls from the factory.

Sorry, but I'd rather see people catching balls than dropping them.

Otherwise we'd be playng football with a greased pig, rather than a pigskin...

[gebobs]

I have no doubt Otto Graham didn't use virgin balls from the factory.

Sorry, but I'd rather see people catching balls than dropping them.
There are certainly solutions to any problem as simple as this if one doesn't just throw up their hands and give up.

[CommissarSpartacus]

There are certainly solutions to any problem as simple as this if one doesn't just throw up their hands and give up.

Personally, I don't see a problem.

I see a manufactured crisis over a situation that anyone with a shred of scientific knowledge could have predicted. if indeed keeping the balls at 12.5 - 13.5 is so important.

[gebobs]

Personally, I don't see a problem.
How would you know? You don't even know what kind of pressure gauge they use. You don't know what their test method is?


I see a manufactured crisis over a situation that anyone with a shred of scientific knowledge could have predicted. if indeed keeping the balls at 12.5 - 13.5 is so important.
You can't make that conclusion any more than someone can that the Patriots cheated.

[CommissarSpartacus]

How would you know? You don't even know what kind of pressure gauge they use. You don't know what their test method is?

I meant I don't see a problem with slightly under-inflated footballs. For kicking, sure, but other than that, I don't watch football to enjoy an exhibition of incompetence.


You can't make that conclusion any more than someone can that the Patriots cheated.

I can make any wild allegation about you I want and as long as you can'r DISprove it, we have to consider it having an equal possibility of being true or false? C'mon

[CommissarSpartacus]

From Robert Parry, a REAL investigative journalist, not a sports scribbler...

http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/robert-parry/60667/rushing-to-judge-nfls-patriots-guilty

Rushing to Judge NFL's Patriots Guilty

by Robert Parry | January 27, 2015 - 10:21am

Given how bad mainstream American journalism has become, I sometimes turn to ESPN for relief and generally find the sports network’s reporting – based on statistics and observable facts – to be superior to the rushes to judgment that have come to define U.S. political and foreign reporting.

But it seems the disease of sloppy and opinionated journalism has spread to ESPN, too, as demonstrated by the network’s unseemly rush to judgment over the so-called “Deflate-gate” scandal swirling around the New England Patriots’ 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Championship game on Jan. 18.

Immediately after the game, all anyone was talking about was whether the Patriots intentionally deflated the footballs used in the first half to gain an unfair competitive advantage, by taking the balls from a legal minimum 12.5 pounds per square inch (PSI), down about 2 PSI below the legal standard.

And, though this controversy is about football – not about whether to go to war in some faraway country – the scandal does touch on journalistic principles that should be applied everywhere, especially where people’s reputations are affected.

As a longtime investigative reporter, I have always found it important – when addressing a suspicion of wrongdoing – to consider possible innocent explanations before concluding that someone committed an offense. Otherwise, you become easily drawn into conspiracy theories, assuming guilt rather than assessing evidence.

However, as “Deflate-gate” jumped from the sports pages onto the news shows and news pages, what was lacking across the board was any skepticism regarding the Patriots’ assumed guilt. The principle of presumed innocence was jettisoned and the only question was who was more guilty, coach Bill Belichick or quarterback Tom Brady, and what the punishment should be.

It became common for commentators on ESPN as well as regular news shows and talk radio to call Brady a liar and Belichick a chronic cheater. Yet, those conclusions were reached in the absence of direct evidence that anyone working for the Patriots had actually deflated the footballs.

...and...

Fitting with ESPN’s defensiveness, an article on Sunday was largely dismissive of Belichick’s explanation while burying at the bottom of the story this item from a Pittsburgh-based sports science organization which essentially replicated the Patriots’ experiment:

“HeadSmart Labs in Pittsburgh conducted a study that indicated the pressure in the footballs used in the AFC Championship Game could have dropped 1.95 PSI from weather and field conditions alone.

“HeadSmart said it tested 12 new footballs that were inflated to 12.5 PSI in a 75 degree room to imitate the indoor conditions where the referees would have tested the footballs 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff. The footballs were then moved to a 50-degree environment to simulate the temperatures that were experienced throughout the game and were dampened to replicate the rainy conditions.

“‘Out of the 12 footballs we tested, we found that on average, footballs dropped 1.8 PSI when being exposed to dropping temperatures and wet conditions,’ the lab’s report states.”

In other words, an independent organization that specializes in the science of athletic equipment essentially confirmed what Belichick had said. And there is the additional loss of PSI that one might expect from 300-pound players landing on the footballs.

...more...

[better days]

From Robert Parry, a REAL investigative journalist, not a sports scribbler...

http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/robert-parry/60667/rushing-to-judge-nfls-patriots-guilty

Rushing to Judge NFL's Patriots Guilty

by Robert Parry | January 27, 2015 - 10:21am

Given how bad mainstream American journalism has become, I sometimes turn to ESPN for relief and generally find the sports network’s reporting – based on statistics and observable facts – to be superior to the rushes to judgment that have come to define U.S. political and foreign reporting.

But it seems the disease of sloppy and opinionated journalism has spread to ESPN, too, as demonstrated by the network’s unseemly rush to judgment over the so-called “Deflate-gate” scandal swirling around the New England Patriots’ 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Championship game on Jan. 18.

Immediately after the game, all anyone was talking about was whether the Patriots intentionally deflated the footballs used in the first half to gain an unfair competitive advantage, by taking the balls from a legal minimum 12.5 pounds per square inch (PSI), down about 2 PSI below the legal standard.

And, though this controversy is about football – not about whether to go to war in some faraway country – the scandal does touch on journalistic principles that should be applied everywhere, especially where people’s reputations are affected.

As a longtime investigative reporter, I have always found it important – when addressing a suspicion of wrongdoing – to consider possible innocent explanations before concluding that someone committed an offense. Otherwise, you become easily drawn into conspiracy theories, assuming guilt rather than assessing evidence.

However, as “Deflate-gate” jumped from the sports pages onto the news shows and news pages, what was lacking across the board was any skepticism regarding the Patriots’ assumed guilt. The principle of presumed innocence was jettisoned and the only question was who was more guilty, coach Bill Belichick or quarterback Tom Brady, and what the punishment should be.

It became common for commentators on ESPN as well as regular news shows and talk radio to call Brady a liar and Belichick a chronic cheater. Yet, those conclusions were reached in the absence of direct evidence that anyone working for the Patriots had actually deflated the footballs.

...and...

Fitting with ESPN’s defensiveness, an article on Sunday was largely dismissive of Belichick’s explanation while burying at the bottom of the story this item from a Pittsburgh-based sports science organization which essentially replicated the Patriots’ experiment:

“HeadSmart Labs in Pittsburgh conducted a study that indicated the pressure in the footballs used in the AFC Championship Game could have dropped 1.95 PSI from weather and field conditions alone.

“HeadSmart said it tested 12 new footballs that were inflated to 12.5 PSI in a 75 degree room to imitate the indoor conditions where the referees would have tested the footballs 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff. The footballs were then moved to a 50-degree environment to simulate the temperatures that were experienced throughout the game and were dampened to replicate the rainy conditions.

“‘Out of the 12 footballs we tested, we found that on average, footballs dropped 1.8 PSI when being exposed to dropping temperatures and wet conditions,’ the lab’s report states.”

In other words, an independent organization that specializes in the science of athletic equipment essentially confirmed what Belichick had said. And there is the additional loss of PSI that one might expect from 300-pound players landing on the footballs.

...more...

smirkingchimp.com LMAO, not exactly the Washington Post is it?

Parry is NOT Woodward or Bernstein.

So sad watching you TRY to defend the CHEATERS.

[Buddo]

What a load of bollocks. Pats cheated, simple as. You can BS all you want about temp changes, but the simple fact remains, that at no stage did the footballs used by the Colts, not have sufficient pressure in them to be deemed legal. By the end of the first half, 11 out of 12 footballs the Pats used, were under-inflated, and hence 'illegal'. All of this garbage about temp changes, didn't make any difference to the footballs remaining legal, at the end of the game, when the zebras re-checked them after putting the right amount of air in them. You don't need physics to work out what simple logic tells you. The Patsies cheated, again.

[Joe Fo Sho]

From Robert Parry, a REAL investigative journalist, not a sports scribbler...

http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/robert-parry/60667/rushing-to-judge-nfls-patriots-guilty

Rushing to Judge NFL's Patriots Guilty

by Robert Parry | January 27, 2015 - 10:21am

Given how bad mainstream American journalism has become, I sometimes turn to ESPN for relief and generally find the sports network’s reporting – based on statistics and observable facts – to be superior to the rushes to judgment that have come to define U.S. political and foreign reporting.

But it seems the disease of sloppy and opinionated journalism has spread to ESPN, too, as demonstrated by the network’s unseemly rush to judgment over the so-called “Deflate-gate” scandal swirling around the New England Patriots’ 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Championship game on Jan. 18.

Immediately after the game, all anyone was talking about was whether the Patriots intentionally deflated the footballs used in the first half to gain an unfair competitive advantage, by taking the balls from a legal minimum 12.5 pounds per square inch (PSI), down about 2 PSI below the legal standard.

And, though this controversy is about football – not about whether to go to war in some faraway country – the scandal does touch on journalistic principles that should be applied everywhere, especially where people’s reputations are affected.

As a longtime investigative reporter, I have always found it important – when addressing a suspicion of wrongdoing – to consider possible innocent explanations before concluding that someone committed an offense. Otherwise, you become easily drawn into conspiracy theories, assuming guilt rather than assessing evidence.

However, as “Deflate-gate” jumped from the sports pages onto the news shows and news pages, what was lacking across the board was any skepticism regarding the Patriots’ assumed guilt. The principle of presumed innocence was jettisoned and the only question was who was more guilty, coach Bill Belichick or quarterback Tom Brady, and what the punishment should be.

It became common for commentators on ESPN as well as regular news shows and talk radio to call Brady a liar and Belichick a chronic cheater. Yet, those conclusions were reached in the absence of direct evidence that anyone working for the Patriots had actually deflated the footballs.

...and...

Fitting with ESPN’s defensiveness, an article on Sunday was largely dismissive of Belichick’s explanation while burying at the bottom of the story this item from a Pittsburgh-based sports science organization which essentially replicated the Patriots’ experiment:

“HeadSmart Labs in Pittsburgh conducted a study that indicated the pressure in the footballs used in the AFC Championship Game could have dropped 1.95 PSI from weather and field conditions alone.

“HeadSmart said it tested 12 new footballs that were inflated to 12.5 PSI in a 75 degree room to imitate the indoor conditions where the referees would have tested the footballs 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff. The footballs were then moved to a 50-degree environment to simulate the temperatures that were experienced throughout the game and were dampened to replicate the rainy conditions.

“‘Out of the 12 footballs we tested, we found that on average, footballs dropped 1.8 PSI when being exposed to dropping temperatures and wet conditions,’ the lab’s report states.”

In other words, an independent organization that specializes in the science of athletic equipment essentially confirmed what Belichick had said. And there is the additional loss of PSI that one might expect from 300-pound players landing on the footballs.

...more...

So roughly a 2 psi pressure drop. How come the Colts balls didn't deflate that much? Assuming they were at the max range of 13.5 psi, a 2 psi drop would put them under the lower limit by 1 psi. This story is bull****.

[Strongman]

Many times, when someone claims they followed the law (or in this case, rule) to the letter, they know they didn't follow the spirit of the rule.

At this point, my best guess is the Cheatriots** are skirting the rules and exploiting a gray area. They probably used a ball that had lower pressure (something in the 12.0 +/-0.5 PSI range).

The reason Kraft is sounding so confident is he's pretty sure, is they have a plausible excuse to account for this. The temperature on game day could account for some of the lower pressure, but not a full 2 lbs.

[Mr. Pink]

BTW, are the haters starting to get the sinking feeling that the Pats will be fully exonerated and they'll look like total fools again?

Time to start backtracking guys if your credibility means anything to you.

Just a friendly warning...

They'll be hit with a slap on the wrist.

The league will do it to save face.

Just like they did with the Chargers in 2012 with the "Stick Um" incident.

[gebobs]

I saw the presentation by HeadSmart Labs and was not impressed at all. Their results were shockingly at odds with basic physics.

[gebobs]

I can make any wild allegation about you I want and as long as you can'r DISprove it, we have to consider it having an equal possibility of being true or false? C'mon
Who cares if they can't disprove it or not? This has all been brought on by them with their skirting and breaking the rules or the past decade and more. This is important and even if they are not guilty, it underscores a weakness in the way the game is presented. There need to be changes.

[Strongman]

I saw the presentation by HeadSmart Labs and was not impressed at all. Their results were shockingly at odds with basic physics.

There are a few assumptions the Headsmart Labs video made that we simply don't know at this point. The biggest three are we don't know the initial conditions in which the balls were inflated, what the final PSI readings really were, or even if they are using some kind water resistant resin in their prepping.

The smoking gun here is are the Patriots** prepping their game balls so close to game time? Other teams seem to do this days to weeks in advance, and not a couple of hours prior like the Patriots** seem to do. Also Belichick, claiming he doesn't know a thing about how balls are prepped... I don't buy that.

[Mr. Cynical]

:monkeyp: Kraft

[YardRat]

Bob Kraft can eat a bag of dicks too.

[YardRat]

Now both Kraft and Belichek sounded way too confident in their pressers...they know Goodell will make it go away.

[YardRat]

Goodell's response will most likely be 'This probably happens all of the time with cold weather games, it's just never been asked by any team to check before this. The Patriots did absolutely nothing wrong, but steps will be taken in future games to assure that the balls used comply with league rules at all times, as stated.'

[Skooby]

Apologize to a team known to cheat & that has been caught before ?

[upstart]

This whole thing was a non-issue.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Dear Mr. Kraft, I have requested that the NFL send you an apology to your inbox. To obtain the document, please put your head between your own legs and shove it up your own ass.

[ckg927]

Hey, Mr. Kraft: **** your apology, **** you in the neck, MF'er...**** the Cheatriots...**** the Red Sox, who were the last MLB team to integrate...AND **** Boston, that place that dissed Bill Russell so badly he called the city "a flea market for racism".

Did I say the F word one too many times? :D

[ckg927]

Dear Mr. Kraft, I have requested that the NFL send you an apology to your inbox. To obtain the document, please put your head between your own legs and shove it up your own ass.

No, no, no...the RIGHT way to say it is this..."Please put your head in your hands...once you shine that head up nice and good...put your head between your legs....turn that sum***** sideways...AND STICK IT STRAIGHT UP YOUR CANDY ASS!"

[upstart]

Now both Kraft and Belichek sounded way too confident in their pressers...they know Goodell will make it go away.

The Pats reputation hasn't been tarnished. The Pats should be looked at as a model and top tier NFL franchise over the last 15 years. Fans of all teams should be happy to have New England as an example of what their team could be,

[OpIv37]

**** Kraft and **** the Patriots organization.

You know, I used to think Kraft had class and made a mistake by hiring an ass in Belicheck- obviously he can't fire Belicheck for being an arrogant ass when he's winning. As far as Brady: he's arrogant, too, but I don't think they were too concerned about that when they drafted him with a 6th round pick after he spent most of his college career riding pine behind a ****ty baseball player.

But after this, it seems that Kraft is just as arrogant as those two bastards. He knows he owns Goodell's sorry ass and he knows he can get away with it. Brady and Belicheck think they're above the rules because they know what it feels like to win and won't risk losing. Kraft feels like he's above the rules because he has money and is not afraid to use it to buy influence.

All three of them are horrible human beings who are tarnishing the league. And because of his affiliation with Kraft, Goodell is as impotent as a Nevada boxing commissioner.

This will be a better league when all 4 of them are out of football.

[Skooby]

The Pats reputation hasn't been tarnished. The Pats should be looked at as a model and top tier NFL franchise over the last 15 years. Fans of all teams should be happy to have New England as an example of what their team could be,

When the cameras stop rolling for the Pats, so did the Championships.

[Strongman]

I have a hard time seeing Goodell doing anything to one of the league's most valuable franchises owned by his friend and the NFL's golden boy Brady.

[paladin warrior]

What a A.$.$.-O Kraft!! . NFL and Fans won't take accept a apology from Kraft. All NFL and fans spit at Kraft face . Except cheater and M.....F...er Fans

[CommissarSpartacus]

You diehards are funny.

Even if you're completely wrong, you won't apologi2e.

Nah, it's not a hatred issue at all.

[Sammy Avalon]

Let Shiva be a sceptic for once. He loves it, especially if he's the only one ;) Attention seeking are we?

On Crafts statement: This is a typical machiavellian way of trying to rebuff an accusation when having nothing else to prove. Aggression and intimidation from a position of power and influence. It's very effective under the right circumstances.

I don't think much will happen as far as disciplinary consequences go. But if the Pats win the Superbowl their legacy will be forever be tarnished and discredited. Especially since this is the second time they have been caught cheating.

And that is priceless.

[harmonkoz]

Let Shiva be a sceptic for once. He loves it, especially if he's the only one ;) Attention seeking are we?

On Crafts statement: This is a typical machiavellian way of trying to rebuff an accusation when having nothing else to prove. Aggression and intimidation from a position of power and influence. It's very effective under the right circumstances.

I don't think much will happen as far as disciplinary consequences go. But if the Pats win the Superbowl their legacy will be forever be tarnished and discredited. Especially since this is the second time they have been caught cheating.

And that is priceless.


You call what Fartacus is doing being a sceptic? I call it being a troll. Quite clearly trolling.

I do agree with the rest of your take. I would love to see the Cheatriots get booed off the field in victory.

[YardRat]

Nobody deeply involved in the league probably cares as much about the Patriot 'legacy' as much as the public does, but one would think they are damn sick and tired of being associated with someone that continuously spits in the face of the integrity of the game at their expense. I hate to say it, but if the rest of the owners don't man up and demand real consequences, they deserve what they get...we just have to continue to suffer along with them, which sucks.

If the owners are OK with running their league like professional wrestling it's their call, but I sincerely hope if they do the status of the 'sport' gets relegated to the level where it belongs, and that isn't anywhere near major league, professional competition.

[Sammy Avalon]

You call what Fartacus is doing being a sceptic? I call it being a troll. Quite clearly trolling.

I do agree with the rest of your take. I would love to see the Cheatriots get booed off the field in victory.

No he's not a troll. He just love going against the grain. It's been his bread butter since I can remember.

The patriots getting booed off the field and Chief Gestapo Goodell's facial expression zoomed in!

[coastal]

The conflict of interest, given Goodell's relationship with Kraft, is of primary concern here.

the "investigation" is likely nothing more than PR management.

[better days]

This whole thing was a non-issue.

You would love to believe that, but it is a HUGE issue.

The Pats* are proven CHEATERS & the CHEATING NEVER ENDS.

Belicheck & Brady both need to be suspended for a year.

[Historian]

The Pats reputation hasn't been tarnished. ,

That's true.

They will forever be looked at as the team that waved their dicks at a female reporter.

[better days]

That's true.

They will forever be looked at as the team that waved their dicks at a female reporter.

And they will be forever looked at as a team of CHEATERS.

Yes upstart, the Pats* reputation is tarnished & no amount of polishing by you or other Pats* fans will remove that tarnish.

[Discotrish]

https://i.imgflip.com/gx832.jpg

Patti

[justasportsfan]

I OWN THE NFL, beeyotch!!!!

Roger Goodell Hung Out At New England Patriots Owner Robert Kraft’s House Night Before AFC Championship Game


17267


http://www.brobible.com/sports/article/roger-goodell-robert-kraft-photo-deflategate/

[Discotrish]

https://i.imgflip.com/gxaen.jpg

Patti

[CommissarSpartacus]

Let Shiva be a sceptic for once. He loves it, especially if he's the only one ;) Attention seeking are we?

On Crafts statement: This is a typical machiavellian way of trying to rebuff an accusation when having nothing else to prove. Aggression and intimidation from a position of power and influence. It's very effective under the right circumstances.

I don't think much will happen as far as disciplinary consequences go. But if the Pats win the Superbowl their legacy will be forever be tarnished and discredited. Especially since this is the second time they have been caught cheating.

And that is priceless.

You remember all those times I disagreed with everyone, even though the rest, secure in the fact they were the majority, threw every idiotic accusation in the book at me?

Did I ever turn out to be wrong?

Now, one would think that if they knew someone that had been right about everything for 12 years, when something like this came along, they'd say "Hmmmm, maybe there's something in what shiva says, after all his record in these sort of situations is spotless."

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

And that's one of the things that makes doing this so amusing.

Watching how so many can be wrong so often and still be firmly convinced they're right.

Football, politics - it's exactly the same dynamic.

Americans have YEARS to be indoctrinated into the notion that Americans are right about everything before they reach the age of reason (supposedly about 7 or 8) and notice that it may not actually be the truth.

And even if they turn into howling lefties who hate everything "Murika" stands for, they STILL have that level of basic training that means if their buttons are pushed, they have no problem regressing to their knee-jerk childhoods.

It's still a very real possibility the Pats are totally innocent, but that doesn't matter, BECAUSE WE HATE THE PATS, and dammit, if hating our enemies and slandering them unfairly is in our interests AND makes us feel good, then IT'S OUR RIGHT TO BEHAVE LIKE THAT!

Cu2 we're "Murikans, dammit!

[Sammy Avalon]

You remember all those times I disagreed with everyone, even though the rest, secure in the fact they were the majority, threw every idiotic accusation in the book at me?

Did I ever turn out to be wrong?

Now, one would think that if they knew someone that had been right about everything for 12 years, when something like this came along, they'd say "Hmmmm, maybe there's something in what shiva says, after all his record in these sort of situations is spotless."

But NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

And that's one of the things that makes doing this so amusing.

Watching how so many can be wrong so often and still be firmly convinced they're right.

Football, politics - it's exactly the same dynamic.

Americans have YEARS to be indoctrinated into the notion that Americans are right about everything before they reach the age of reason (supposedly about 7 or 8) and notice that it may not actually be the truth.

And even if they turn into howling lefties who hate everything "Murika" stands for, they STILL have that level of basic training that means if their buttons are pushed, they have no problem regressing to their knee-jerk childhoods.

It's still a very real possibility the Pats are totally innocent, but that doesn't matter, BECAUSE WE HATE THE PATS, and dammit, if hating our enemies and slandering them unfairly is in our interests AND makes us feel good, then IT'S OUR RIGHT TO BEHAVE LIKE THAT!

Cu2 we're "Murikans, dammit!

I'm not going to lie I have learned a lot of things from you over the years but I don't recall you never being wrong about anything. That's a bit of an overstatement.

Of course there is a chance they didn't do it but you have to look at the circumstantial evidence here. A rule is a rule and if you break it you should be punished accordingly.

Anyway the friggin' Balls were under inflated and the Colts' weren't. The kid took the balls to the bathroom were he knew no security footage could be recorded. The Pats have almost no fumbles all year. They live off the running game and the intermediate passing game. Both Belichek and Brady are very vague and seem highly confused in their initial pressers concerning the issue. They have cheated before and have been convicted.

The evidence suggests that they cheated. That's all I know. And btw your nemesis the main stream media is fully on your side. Looks like you made nice with them afterall.

[coastal]

Boom

[upstart]

LOL

I'm sorry but YOU people are letting their imagination run wild here. So I'll take some time to set you straight ....

The rule says the balls must be in the possession of the refs 2 hours before game time so that they can be tested for specs, it does not say that the balls must meet those specs when delivered to the ref. So, if the balls arrived underinflated and the ref missed it, no rules were violated.

I don't know if the balls were checked before being certified or not... and neither does anyone on this board.

End of story.

[Strongman]

Hah! I bet this "scientist" is on Al Gore's payroll too with the global warming nonsense!

Christians don't need scientists to tell us who's good and who's evil!

Crucify them!

Ask A Scientist: Deflategate Is Trumped Up Nonsense

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/24/basic-physics-may-defeat-deflategate.html

Ask A Scientist: Deflategate Is Trumped Up Nonsense
Note to scandal seekers: Gases lose volume when it’s cold, meaning the Patriots may not have done anything wrong.

New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick says that he is “not a scientist,” but a basic law of physics taught in high school may well vindicate his team in the controversy dubbed DeflateGate.

On a blackboard, the Ideal Gas Law is written thus:

PV=nRT

The P stands for pressure, the V for volume. The n is the amount of gas, the R a mathematical constant. The T is temperature.

Among other things, the equation establishes that if the volume is a constant such as the inside of a football, then the pressure will vary in accordance with the temperature.

Let’s say the internal pressure of a football is measured indoors, as the footballs were two hours before the AFC Championship game last weekend.

And let’s assume that the temperature inside was in the mid-70s Fahrenheit.

Now we know that the temperature on the field was around 50 degrees when the balls were brought out for the start of the game.

We also know that the temperature soon after dropped into the mid-40s.

And, as calculated by a prominent Boston physicist at the request of the Daily Beast, a 30-degree decrease in temperature would result in a corresponding pressure drop of 1.54 PSI (pounds per square inch.)

“You’re on the right track,” Dr. Michael Naughton, chair of the Department of Physics at Boston College, confirmed when contacted by The Daily Beast on Friday.

Naughton was as cautious as is any good scientist when it comes to speculation, but he ventured, “What’s not unreasonable is that footballs initially measured in a typically warm room and then brought outside and used in a 40s temperature field will have dropped one and a half to two PSI.”

This would mean that balls inflated in the warmth of the indoors to the regulation lower limit of 12.5 PSI—which the Patriots are said to prefer—would have dropped to less than 11 PSI in the first half.

That would explain why all but one of the 12 Patriot game balls came in under the limit when they were tested at the half, triggering DeflateGate and the accompanying accusations of cheating.

All the game balls of the opposing Colts tested within the regulation limit, but that could be because they were initially inflated to the upper limit of 13.5 PSI.

...more...

I had some down time on my job so I decided to take a stab at this with Excel. It's weird, because I got a different result than Dr. Michael Naughton. Right off the bat, I noticed he made a couple of errors. The first is assuming it was filled in a room in the mid 70's because we simply don't know that. His other glaring mistake is using the temperature at the start of the game. The balls were measured at halftime so that's the temperature you would have to use.

To account for a 2 psi drop in pressure, P1/T1 = P2x/T2 tells use either:

1. The balls were inflated in an 85 degree room
2. The Cheatriots** submitted gameballs at 11.25 PSI that the refs didn't check

[YardRat]

From Robert Parry, a REAL investigative journalist, not a sports scribbler...

http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/robert-parry/60667/rushing-to-judge-nfls-patriots-guilty

Rushing to Judge NFL's Patriots Guilty

by Robert Parry | January 27, 2015 - 10:21am

Given how bad mainstream American journalism has become, I sometimes turn to ESPN for relief and generally find the sports network’s reporting – based on statistics and observable facts – to be superior to the rushes to judgment that have come to define U.S. political and foreign reporting.

But it seems the disease of sloppy and opinionated journalism has spread to ESPN, too, as demonstrated by the network’s unseemly rush to judgment over the so-called “Deflate-gate” scandal swirling around the New England Patriots’ 45-7 victory over the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Championship game on Jan. 18.

Immediately after the game, all anyone was talking about was whether the Patriots intentionally deflated the footballs used in the first half to gain an unfair competitive advantage, by taking the balls from a legal minimum 12.5 pounds per square inch (PSI), down about 2 PSI below the legal standard.

And, though this controversy is about football – not about whether to go to war in some faraway country – the scandal does touch on journalistic principles that should be applied everywhere, especially where people’s reputations are affected.

As a longtime investigative reporter, I have always found it important – when addressing a suspicion of wrongdoing – to consider possible innocent explanations before concluding that someone committed an offense. Otherwise, you become easily drawn into conspiracy theories, assuming guilt rather than assessing evidence.

However, as “Deflate-gate” jumped from the sports pages onto the news shows and news pages, what was lacking across the board was any skepticism regarding the Patriots’ assumed guilt. The principle of presumed innocence was jettisoned and the only question was who was more guilty, coach Bill Belichick or quarterback Tom Brady, and what the punishment should be.

It became common for commentators on ESPN as well as regular news shows and talk radio to call Brady a liar and Belichick a chronic cheater. Yet, those conclusions were reached in the absence of direct evidence that anyone working for the Patriots had actually deflated the footballs.

...and...

Fitting with ESPN’s defensiveness, an article on Sunday was largely dismissive of Belichick’s explanation while burying at the bottom of the story this item from a Pittsburgh-based sports science organization which essentially replicated the Patriots’ experiment:

“HeadSmart Labs in Pittsburgh conducted a study that indicated the pressure in the footballs used in the AFC Championship Game could have dropped 1.95 PSI from weather and field conditions alone.

“HeadSmart said it tested 12 new footballs that were inflated to 12.5 PSI in a 75 degree room to imitate the indoor conditions where the referees would have tested the footballs 2 hours and 15 minutes before kickoff. The footballs were then moved to a 50-degree environment to simulate the temperatures that were experienced throughout the game and were dampened to replicate the rainy conditions.

“‘Out of the 12 footballs we tested, we found that on average, footballs dropped 1.8 PSI when being exposed to dropping temperatures and wet conditions,’ the lab’s report states.”

In other words, an independent organization that specializes in the science of athletic equipment essentially confirmed what Belichick had said. And there is the additional loss of PSI that one might expect from 300-pound players landing on the footballs.

...more...

Why do you keep bringing up all of these 'expert' conclusions that ignore the obvious? If they are so intelligent and their calculations are so correct THE COLT'S BALLS WOULD HAVE FAILED ALSO AND THEY DIDN'T. Why is that so difficult to understand and accept?

[CommissarSpartacus]

I'm not going to lie I have learned a lot of things from you over the years but I don't recall you never being wrong about anything. That's a bit of an overstatement.

Of course there is a chance they didn't do it but you have to look at the circumstantial evidence here. A rule is a rule and if you break it you should be punished accordingly.

Anyway the friggin' Balls were under inflated and the Colts' weren't. The kid took the balls to the bathroom were he knew no security footage could be recorded. The Pats have almost no fumbles all year. They live off the running game and the intermediate passing game. Both Belichek and Brady are very vague and seem highly confused in their initial pressers concerning the issue. They have cheated before and have been convicted.

The evidence suggests that they cheated. That's all I know. And btw your nemesis the main stream media is fully on your side. Looks like you made nice with them afterall.

I'm sure you reali2e that "I don't recall you never being wrong about anything" means that you also can't recall me ever being wrong about anything. Think about it. Can you remember a specific iincidence? I'm not saying this to brag but just to point oput peoples' resistance to admitting it when faced with a disagreement with me.

Sorry, but the evidence suggests they might have cheated, but it also suggests they were telling the truth, and this is a set-up by whoever alerted the Colts into complaining about the balls in the first place.

You see, all this nonsense is based on the idea that a softer ball offers a significant advantage to EVERYONE, rather than it just being a matter of preference to some.

Sorry, but you're suffering from a culturally ingrained knee jerk reaction on this, like so many other people that should know better.

[EricStratton]

Who was that "next great QB" again, some guy named Nick or something?

[upstart]

Boom


You are a clown,and everybody on every other NFL team, their coaching and scouting staffs, and all the NFL officials during all those games were too dumb and clueless to see this huge under-inflated ball advantage. is that right?


STFU

[CommissarSpartacus]

Who was that "next great QB" again, some guy named Nick or something?

I've never called ANYONE the "next great QB".

Try again.

[CommissarSpartacus]

To account for a 2 psi drop in pressure, P1/T1 = P2x/T2 tells use either:

1. The balls were inflated in an 85 degree room
2. The Cheatriots** submitted gameballs at 11.25 PSI that the refs didn't check

Filling the balls in an 85 degree room is not against the rules.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Why do you keep bringing up all of these 'expert' conclusions that ignore the obvious? If they are so intelligent and their calculations are so correct THE COLT'S BALLS WOULD HAVE FAILED ALSO AND THEY DIDN'T. Why is that so difficult to understand and accept?

I've explained this a half a do2en times.

If Andrew Luck like his balls at 13.0, say, and the equipment manager paid attention in high school, he'd fill the balls outside,with cold air and there would be no reason for the balls to lose pressure.

Duh....

[Strongman]

Filling the balls in an 85 degree room is not against the rules.

Most reasonable people would view it is an attempt to skirt the rules and view it as cheating. This is why Belichick didn't come right out and say that at his impromptu press conference last Saturday.

At this point, I doubt they did that. Instead they simply prepared balls that were 11.25 psi and were reasonable certain the refs wouldn't check them. That's still cheating.

[Mace]

I'm sure you reali2e that "I don't recall you never being wrong about anything" means that you also can't recall me ever being wrong about anything. Think about it. Can you remember a specific iincidence? I'm not saying this to brag but just to point oput peoples' resistance to admitting it when faced with a disagreement with me.

Sorry, but the evidence suggests they might have cheated, but it also suggests they were telling the truth, and this is a set-up by whoever alerted the Colts into complaining about the balls in the first place.

You see, all this nonsense is based on the idea that a softer ball offers a significant advantage to EVERYONE, rather than it just being a matter of preference to some.

Sorry, but you're suffering from a culturally ingrained knee jerk reaction on this, like so many other people that should know better.

I recall you being wrong about Stevie Johnson (in his family van) and David Nelson (devout religious guy) being party maniacs corrupting each other, and Nelson's gf being a floozie because she was a cheerleader (she's a missionary in some underdeveloped country now), Russia not having troops in the Ukraine and several other things, but I have come to appreciate your point and perspective enough where it's fun to agree with your legalistic, reasoned philosophy time to time. It's fun to watch you work and not feel invested in the outcome.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I recall you being wrong about Stevie Johnson (in his family van) and David Nelson (devout religious guy) being party maniacs corrupting each other, and Nelson's gf being a floozie because she was a cheerleader (she's a missionary in some underdeveloped country now), Russia not having troops in the Ukraine and several other things...

Stevei DID corrupt Nelson, I didn't call Nelson a "party maniac" and I don't remember calling Nelson's GF a floo2ie because she was a cheerleader.

I also remember many accusations that Russia has troops in the Ukraine with no proof.

Many other things? Same deal. Not wrong.

And I don't se my philosophy as legalistic,but merely rational...

[coastal]

hugeproject much?

[CommissarSpartacus]

Most reasonable people would view it is an attempt to skirt the rules and view it as cheating.

"Most reasonable people" = people desperate for something to pin on the Pats.

It's really quite pathetic watching fans of a team that's been consistently taken to the woodshed by the Pats over the last 13 years whine about something so ****ing trivial.

"Oooo, boo hoo hoo, if the Pats weren't giant cheaters we might have won another game or two!"

Aaaaargh. Makes me ashamed to be a Bills fan....

[Strongman]

"Most reasonable people" = people desperate for something to pin on the Pats.

It's really quite pathetic watching fans of a team that's been consistently taken to the woodshed by the Pats over the last 13 years whine about something so ****ing trivial.

"Oooo, boo hoo hoo, if the Pats weren't giant cheaters we might have won another game or two!"

Aaaaargh. Makes me ashamed to be a Bills fan....

Most reasonable people = basically anyone other than a Cheatriots fan.

If it was so trivial, then please explain why the NFL is investigating this.

Quit while you're behind.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Aaaaargh. Makes me ashamed to be a Bills fan....

I'd be ashamed to be a Bills fan if I was a Patriots fan, too.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I've never called ANYONE the "next great QB".

Try again.

You were on Matt Flynn's jock for a while.

[YardRat]

Why would the NFL have to apologize to Kraft anyway, the only real info to come from the league itself has been A)The balls were found to be under-inflated and replaced pursuant to the rules, and B)They are conducting an investigation. The league is supposed to apologize for following their own rules? That says a lot.

[EricStratton]

Always dragging a thread back to the point Yard.

- - - Updated - - -

So you didn't love him as a QB and claim the NFL missed on him?

[coastal]

Why would the NFL have to apologize to Kraft anyway, the only real info to come from the league itself has been A)The balls were found to be under-inflated and replaced pursuant to the rules, and B)They are conducting an investigation. The league is supposed to apologize for following their own rules? That says a lot.
Kraft asking for an apology is interesting given what you've said. You're absolutely correct, so why would Kraft go public with a pronouncement like that.

hes either feeling pressure about it all or letting Goodell's know where he stands.

This is could get interestnf.

Probably wont... But it might.

[better days]

LOL

I'm sorry but YOU people are letting their imagination run wild here. So I'll take some time to set you straight ....

The rule says the balls must be in the possession of the refs 2 hours before game time so that they can be tested for specs, it does not say that the balls must meet those specs when delivered to the ref. So, if the balls arrived underinflated and the ref missed it, no rules were violated.

I don't know if the balls were checked before being certified or not... and neither does anyone on this board.

End of story.

NO, it is NOT the end of the story because that never happened.

You are just trying to deflect blame to the officials when it was in fact the Pats* CHEATING...AGAIN.

[CommissarSpartacus]

You were on Matt Flynn's jock for a while.

Matt Flynn's a better qb than Orton or EJ or Kevin Kolb.

I wasn't on his jock, I just saw him, like Kelly Holcomb in 2005, as the best available option.

Green Bay was happy to have him back after watching him get dicked around by loser organi2ations and the emergence of Russell Wilson.

I have no doubt that if we'd given Matt Flynn the starters job when he got here, we would have made the playoffs last year.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Matt Flynn's a better qb than Orton or EJ or Kevin Kolb.

I wasn't on his jock, I just saw him, like Kelly Holcomb in 2005, as the best available option.

Green Bay was happy to have him back after watching him get dicked around by loser organi2ations and the emergence of Russell Wilson.

I have no doubt that if we'd given Matt Flynn the starters job when he got here, we would have made the playoffs last year.

Yeah, we should get into another debate over some hypothetical thing that no one can prove. The only thing we know for sure is that Matt Flynn is a backup quarterback.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I have no doubt that if we'd given Matt Flynn the starters job when he got here, we would have made the playoffs last year.
There goes the little credibility you had left.

I'm done with your clowning.

[Bill Cody]

Why would the NFL have to apologize to Kraft anyway, the only real info to come from the league itself has been A)The balls were found to be under-inflated and replaced pursuant to the rules, and B)They are conducting an investigation. The league is supposed to apologize for following their own rules? That says a lot.

Not quite. The league said that the balls were properly checked and that the deflation was not weather related, that it was "man made". If it turns out NE presented balls to the refs that were low because they either knew it or didn't put them on a gauge because they know that's the refs job and then the refs just failed to properly test/inflate the balls then that would differ pretty substantially from what the league said. Not sure it warrants an apology or not but it certainly would be a relatively minor offense if anything, certainly not the international circus this has become which has at least in part been based on the leaks from the league. The leaks from the laegue have fueled speculation on what happened without evidence. Example, the league leaks that the ball boy who went to the john is a "person of interest". That translates to a headline "NFL closing in on person who deflated balls". Based on what? Maybe the kid deflated balls and maybe he just needed to take a leak, who knows? That's not the way reporting used to work but it flies today and there's no retraction from anyone ever if they spout off stuff that turns out to be total fiction. Not just this story but most stories. Print first ask questions later.

Another thing you could make a case that they COULD owe NE an apology for: I think the league decided from the jump to slow walk this case in order to protect their big game. Does it really take this long to investigate some footballs getting deflated (or not)? I'm not saying NE is innocent. But just for laughs let's say all they were guilty of was not bothering to put a gauge on the balls, that Brady liked how they felt and they left it to the refs to pump them or not. They could have come out with that a week ago no? And that would have ended the beating NE has taken in the press would it not? So yeah, that's on the league- the Super Bowl came first not the investigation. Am I missing something here?

[Strongman]

Maybe Kraft should apologize to the reporter who broke the Deflategate story:

When you’re in the news business, you anticipate blowback when you break a story that casts someone in a negative light.

But Indianapolis writer Bob Kravitz, who works for television station WTHR, said he was floored by the volume of response from Patriots fans after he wrote the first story about #DeflateGate.

“Feedback? Hell, it’s been a tsunami of hatred,” Kravitz said, via Ben Volin of the Boston Globe. “My office voice mail is full. My emails are overflowing from New England fans. The tweets are just out of control. It’s gotten very personal, very mean-spirited, some anti-Semitic remarks, some threats to my well-being, but, then, I didn’t expect otherwise.

“I’ve been in the business for over 30 years and I’ve developed some very thick skin over the years. I’m a big boy; I can handle it. I’ll say this: New England fans are among the most vocal and passionate I’ve ever seen, which is a good thing.”

Kravitz said the last week and a half “has been the most insane period of my professional life.”

“Other writers keep jokingly coming up to me and saying, “This is all your fault,’’ but I’m quite sure this story would have gotten out whether I reported it or not,” he said. “An NFL investigation into allegations of cheating is a big thing; surely, someone would have caught wind of it. As it happened, I’m the one who heard about it and confirmed it and reported it — accurately, I might add.”

That reporting has caused many Patriots fans to misplace their anger, with social media giving the bullies a louder voice.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/29/reporter-who-broke-deflategate-says-fans-have-threatened-him/

[upstart]

NO, it is NOT the end of the story because that never happened.

You are just trying to deflect blame to the officials when it was in fact the Pats* CHEATING...AGAIN.

Really? I get the whole "cheating history" crap but spare me the self righteous indignation over this. This is beyond small potato BS. Even more so when the ref touches the ball all game.

But I'm sure because of the timing and not the offense. The media will blindly whine about this until Goodell does something beyond the worth of the offense.

Heck let's look into all the claims by the SI reporter too. I'm sure the Pats also built Patriot place specifically to help Belichick cheat.


I laugh

[upstart]

project much?

Project this,the Patriots have indicated that they provided the NFL with access to whatever they wanted access to. Standard practice reviewing this will be conducted and documented

When the NFL comes out of this with nothing, that implies that the Patriots are not cheating in any way at all. That's why an apology from the NFL will happen.

[YardRat]

Not quite. The league said that the balls were properly checked and that the deflation was not weather related, that it was "man made". If it turns out NE presented balls to the refs that were low because they either knew it or didn't put them on a gauge because they know that's the refs job and then the refs just failed to properly test/inflate the balls then that would differ pretty substantially from what the league said. Not sure it warrants an apology or not but it certainly would be a relatively minor offense if anything, certainly not the international circus this has become which has at least in part been based on the leaks from the league. The leaks from the laegue have fueled speculation on what happened without evidence. Example, the league leaks that the ball boy who went to the john is a "person of interest". That translates to a headline "NFL closing in on person who deflated balls". Based on what? Maybe the kid deflated balls and maybe he just needed to take a leak, who knows? That's not the way reporting used to work but it flies today and there's no retraction from anyone ever if they spout off stuff that turns out to be total fiction. Not just this story but most stories. Print first ask questions later.

Another thing you could make a case that they COULD owe NE an apology for: I think the league decided from the jump to slow walk this case in order to protect their big game. Does it really take this long to investigate some footballs getting deflated (or not)? I'm not saying NE is innocent. But just for laughs let's say all they were guilty of was not bothering to put a gauge on the balls, that Brady liked how they felt and they left it to the refs to pump them or not. They could have come out with that a week ago no? And that would have ended the beating NE has taken in the press would it not? So yeah, that's on the league- the Super Bowl came first not the investigation. Am I missing something here?

I must have missed that...

[upstart]

Kraft asking for an apology is interesting given what you've said. You're absolutely correct, so why would Kraft go public with a pronouncement like that.

hes either feeling pressure about it all or letting Goodell's know where he stands.

This is could get interestnf.

Probably wont... But it might.

Its people like you that prove nothing more than being jealous fans.

Brady first half with balls deflated: 11-21, 1 TD 1 Int

Brady second half with balls inflated to legal pressure: 12-14, 2 TDs 0 Ints

Can we give this bull**** a rest?

[coastal]

And what's your answer for the 7 years of stats short shooter?

[CommissarSpartacus]

There goes the little credibility you had left.

I'm done with your clowning.

I'm devastated...

[upstart]

And what's your answer for the 7 years of stats short shooter?

He didn't have a Bills coach .

[CommissarSpartacus]

He didn't have a Bills coach .

If the Bills had played with under-inflated balls for the last 13 years, their record would be JUST AS GOOD as the Patriots! The fumble stats prove it!

[upstart]

Some fans views about the Patriots have no basis in logic or fact. So my first conjecture about the emotional basis for their irrationality is the widely-known emotional filter for football, namely which team you root for.

If you people have some other reason instead for venting at length in total opposition to reality, I regret the error.

There was a guy after all who wrote a book saying he'd heard a rumor of an experience Doug Flutie had had. Even though neither Flutie nor anybody else ever confirmed it -- hey, one writer made some money by saying something, and he might not have been making it up. There also was the video guy who confessed something and then retracted the confession; I forget the details on that one.

And of course there are also the many football insiders who claim that all teams "cheat", if they are correct, I'd greatly doubt that the Patriots are a uniquely virtuous exception.

[cookie G]

I must have missed that...

Our office has been conducting an investigation as to whether the footballs used in last Sunday’s AFC Championship Game complied with the specifications that are set forth in the playing rules. The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/nfl-makes-statement-about-deflate-gate-investigation-192128202.html

Of course, that finding is subject to change, now that assistant commissioner Kraft has gotten involved.

Expect a retraction, and an apology.

[better days]

Really? I get the whole "cheating history" crap but spare me the self righteous indignation over this. This is beyond small potato BS. Even more so when the ref touches the ball all game.

But I'm sure because of the timing and not the offense. The media will blindly whine about this until Goodell does something beyond the worth of the offense.

Heck let's look into all the claims by the SI reporter too. I'm sure the Pats also built Patriot place specifically to help Belichick cheat.


I laugh

The ref touching/holding the ball, is FAR DIFFERENT from A QB, WR, or RB grabbing it TIGHTLY in his hands.

CHEATING is CHEATING. If it was no big deal, not much to be gained, then the CHEATING Patriots* should not have done it.

End of story.

And Patriot place was built to reduce traffic before & after games to that Stadium built in the middle of nowhere that has few roads & far too much traffic on game days.

[coastal]

He didn't have a Bills coach .
So the statistical outlier exists because of highly superior coaching?

sure thing.

[Parzival]

If the Bills had played with under-inflated balls for the last 13 years, their record would be JUST AS GOOD as the Patriots! The fumble stats prove it!


Not one person has said that. Anywhere.

[YardRat]

Our office has been conducting an investigation as to whether the footballs used in last Sunday’s AFC Championship Game complied with the specifications that are set forth in the playing rules. The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday’s game.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/nfl-makes-statement-about-deflate-gate-investigation-192128202.html

Of course, that finding is subject to change, now that assistant commissioner Kraft has gotten involved.

Expect a retraction, and an apology.

Yeah, I knew that part, but Bill Cody stated the league announced the deflation wasn't weather-related and was 'man-made'...that's the part I haven't seen...or missed.

[Night Train]

Project this,the Patriots have indicated that they provided the NFL with access to whatever they wanted access to. Standard practice reviewing this will be conducted and documented

When the NFL comes out of this with nothing, that implies that the Patriots are not cheating in any way at all. That's why an apology from the NFL will happen.


The media is pounding them because of Spygate and the sudden incredible vanishing act of evidence. The league squashed Matt Walsh who said he snuck into opposing teams practices for 3 years between 2000-2002 to tape gameplans. Then shockingly, all the film is gone.

Then Kraft leads the charge to raise Goodells salary from like 7 Mil to the 35-40 Mil range.

Gee, why would anyone outside of New England have it out for the Pats and question the integrity of the NFL ?

If you don't like the press and general public pounding them, start following cricket.

[YardRat]

“Ah you think cheating is your ally? You merely adopted the practice. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was fined for it, by then it was nothing to me but blinding!”

http://41.media.tumblr.com/6b8ad345d4f8b5340cd78022e7d76596/tumblr_niloa8ojru1qb8x86o1_r1_500.jpg

[Strongman]

http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/imce/2015/01-JAN/MAD-Magazine-Patriots-Cheaties_54bfd60620f555.21568197.jpg

[chris66]

The media is pounding them because of Spygate and the sudden incredible vanishing act of evidence. The league squashed Matt Walsh who said he snuck into opposing teams practices for 3 years between 2000-2002 to tape gameplans. Then shockingly, all the film is gone.

Then Kraft leads the charge to raise Goodells salary from like 7 Mil to the 35-40 Mil range.

Gee, why would anyone outside of New England have it out for the Pats and question the integrity of the NFL ?

If you don't like the press and general public pounding them, start following cricket.

The film never existed. Walsh was lying. He was bitter because he was fired.

[Woodman]

The biggest ass clown the NFL has is ......... wait for it ..........

ROBERT KRAFT!!

[better days]

The film never existed. Walsh was lying. He was bitter because he was fired.

LMAO. Goodell admitted to burning the film & the rest of the evidence he had from spygate.

Thanks to Kraft's buddy Goodell, the film no longer exists, but we all know it did.

The Pats* did not pay that fine & lose a draft pick for no reason.

[chris66]

LMAO. Goodell admitted to burning the film & the rest of the evidence he had from spygate.

Thanks to Kraft's buddy Goodell, the film no longer exists, but we all know it did.

The Pats* did not pay that fine & lose a draft pick for no reason.

Dont even know where to start. So ill start from the beginning.
The tapes that were destroyed were of the coaches signals. That was in sept of 07.

On the Friday before the superbowl. The Boston Herald ran a story wtitten by John Tomasse that there were tapes of the Rams walk through prior to SB36 and that Matt Walsh had them.

In May of 08 the NFL interviewed walsh an he provided tapes of coaches signals which was what the nfl already knew. Walsh admitted that he never taped a walkthrough and the Herald retracted the story and apologized.

[YardRat]

Yeah, too bad it's on record that Belichick admitted to Goodell that he'd been taping ever since he arrived in New England.

[Night Train]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/17/roger-goodell-spygate-ray-rice-arlen-specter

I guess the press is making it all up. :rolleyes:

[chris66]

Yeah, too bad it's on record that Belichick admitted to Goodell that he'd been taping ever since he arrived in New England.

Coaches signals. Not practices

[chris66]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2014/09/17/roger-goodell-spygate-ray-rice-arlen-specter

I guess the press is making it all up. :rolleyes:

Press still makes it up. Cant tell you how many times i read references.

Google matt walsh,herald apology.

[swiper]

Press still makes it up. Cant tell you how many times i read references.

Google matt walsh,herald apology.


ROFL @ you. You read that article? There are MULTIPLE citings of taping by various organizations.

One of several:


On Nov. 19, 2006, Doug Collins, the Green Bay Packers (http://www.si.com/nfl/team/green-bay-packers)’ security chief removed Patriots film guy Matt Estrella after Estrella was caught taping the Packers’ defensive signals.

What part of that, exactly, did the media "make up?"

[YardRat]

"I've got no rules to hold me down / to make me fret, or make me frown / I had rules, but now I'm <nobr>free (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2395427/quotes#)</nobr> / There are no rules for me! "

http://mlblogsredstatebluestate.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/bill_belichick.jpg

[chris66]

ROFL @ you. You read that article? There are MULTIPLE citings of taping by various organizations.

One of several:



What part of that, exactly, did the media "make up?"
Taping practices

[CommissarSpartacus]

Yeah, too bad it's on record that Belichick admitted to Goodell that he'd been taping ever since he arrived in New England.

It wasn't against the rules when he arrived in New England, and wasn't until the rule was changed SIX YEARS LATER.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

[Discotrish]

Dont even know where to start. So ill start from the beginning.
The tapes that were destroyed were of the coaches signals. That was in sept of 07.

On the Friday before the superbowl. The Boston Herald ran a story wtitten by John Tomasse that there were tapes of the Rams walk through prior to SB36 and that Matt Walsh had them.

In May of 08 the NFL interviewed walsh an he provided tapes of coaches signals which was what the nfl already knew. Walsh admitted that he never taped a walkthrough and the Herald retracted the story and apologized.

Actually Goodell/the NFL released a statement characterizing THEIR interpretation of what was said. He said he had no tape to turn over. Seems pretty clear, with the sheer number of attorneys involved, that Walsh was threatened with legal action, and he ultimately was able to get immunity from prosecution, based on what he DID turn over. You can be there would be NO immunity had he turned over a tape of the walk-through! Not sure if the issue is that the Patriots owned the tapes or equipment. Also the Patriots flatly denied that "The Patriots" taped a walk-through. Well of course if someone is doing this ON THEIR OWN (kinda like a Deflating Equipment Manager) then it wouldn't be "The Patriots" doing it.

Patti

[YardRat]

It wasn't against the rules when he arrived in New England, and wasn't until the rule was changed SIX YEARS LATER.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Because the portion of Article IX of the NFL Constitution and Bylaws that both the Patriots and Belichick were penalized for breaking was in the document at it's inception in 1970.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Because the portion of Article IX of the NFL Constitution and Bylaws that both the Patriots and Belichick were penalized for breaking was in the document at it's inception in 1970.

:rofl:

Excuse me?

[Strongman]

NFL executive confirms Colts' general manager tipped off DeflateGate

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/2/3/7969629/nfl-deflategate-indianapolis-colts-new-england-patriots

[YardRat]

:rofl:

Excuse me?

Look it up...it's right there in black and white.

[Mr. Pink]

It's rather amusing that the only ball that was found to be significantly underinflated was the one that D'Qwell Jackson intercepted and the Colts handled before turning it over. Things that make you go hmmmm...

But facts be damned and let ESPNTMZ and others allow a rush to judgement to cloud peoples perception in order to tell a fabricated story for ratings and page clicks.

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, too bad it's on record that Belichick admitted to Goodell that he'd been taping ever since he arrived in New England.

You do know that Marty Schoettenheimer was taping signals when he was in KC and who knows if anyone from his coaching tree followed suit, like Herm Edwards, Tony Dungy and Bill Cowher. Marty admitted to taping signals.

Also, EPSN taped a portion of a Bills practice prior to the Superbowl and it aired on TV, it showed a play in specific which was designed to attack a weakness in the Cowboys D that Jimmy Johnson was able to see and thus adjust for.

The media and league decided to rush to judgement on the Pats, because lets face it, the league likes parity and wants to see new teams be able to rise not have the same team be dominant for a decade plus...the fans ate it up because just like the league other teams fans get sick of seeing the same team win year in and year out...and then when all the facts come out the story fizzles out. All that's left is Matt Walsh was taping practices; he wasn't...and that gave the Pats a distinct advantage and allowed for them to win the Superbowl against the Rams. Then again when you have Marshall Faulk banging that "the only reason we could have possibly lost to the Pats is because they cheated," it's hard to believe anything else.

Truth be told, the only rule they may have actually violated is where they were taping the opposition's sidelines and signals from.

But that wouldn't be as fun of a story for the media to report right? I mean after all ESPN needs ratings and page clicks.

[cookie G]

It's rather amusing that the only ball that was found to be significantly underinflated was the one that D'Qwell Jackson intercepted and the Colts handled before turning it over. Things that make you go hmmmm...

But facts be damned and let ESPNTMZ and others allow a rush to judgement to cloud peoples perception in order to tell a fabricated story for ratings and page clicks.

The amusing thing is that the "it was only one ball" leak came out after Bob Kraft whined about the treatment his boys were getting in the media.

Uh huh. Its amusing that people will actually believe the updated story.

I doubt anyone in Pats land anticipated the reaction they received, both from the media and former players/coaches.

They had to do something..so Kraft strong arms the commissioner he owns to create the whitewash story.

Shocking...lol.

One born every minute.

[Mr. Pink]

The amusing thing is that the "it was only one ball" leak came out after Bob Kraft whined about the treatment his boys were getting in the media.

Uh huh. Its amusing that people will actually believe the updated story.

I doubt anyone in Pats land anticipated the reaction they received, both from the media and former players/coaches.

They had to do something..so Kraft strong arms the commissioner he owns to create the whitewash story.

Shocking...lol.

One born every minute.

Of course, one must always believe the initial rush to judgement inflated claims over the actual truth. Especially when the original story is just so much more exciting than the actual truth. Or you know when the story is against a sports team you hate because they consistently beat the sports team you follow.

What's that about suckers?

Lemme guess Kraft strong armed the commish and league to whitewash Matt Walsh's story too?

[cookie G]

Of course, one must always believe the initial rush to judgement inflated claims over the actual truth. Especially when the original story is just so much more exciting than the actual truth. Or you know when the story is against a sports team you hate because they consistently beat the sports team you follow.

What's that about suckers?

Lemme guess Kraft strong armed the commish and league to whitewash Matt Walsh's story too?

And yet...when the NFL released its statement on Jan. 23rd....it used the term "footballs" on several occasions."

While the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots in the first half, the footballs were properly inflated for the second half and confirmed at the conclusion of the game to have remained properly inflated. The goals of the investigation will be to determine the explanation for why footballs used in the game were not in compliance with the playing rules and specifically whether any noncompliance was the result of deliberate action. We have not made any judgments on these points and will not do so until we have concluded our investigation and considered all of the relevant evidence.

Nothing in there about all of the game balls but one being slightly, or a smidgen under regulation pressure.

If it was just one, I doubt anyone would have cared. You throw that ball out and move on.

But what the hell...people will believe what they want.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Look it up...it's right there in black and white.

Really?

Then why not post it here in black and white?

[CommissarSpartacus]

It's rather amusing that the only ball that was found to be significantly underinflated was the one that D'Qwell Jackson intercepted and the Colts handled before turning it over. Things that make you go hmmmm...

But facts be damned and let ESPNTMZ and others allow a rush to judgement to cloud peoples perception in order to tell a fabricated story for ratings and page clicks.

It's amusing as well that we STILL haven't found out WHO told the refs to check the balls and why.

I've been watching the NFL for 50 years and have NEVER HEARD ANYONE beef about underinflated balls EVER. So it's not something that anyone would be suspecting, history proves that.

So WHO WAS IT that initiated this complaint in the first place?

And I've heard reports that a number of the under-inflated balls were only a "tick under" and it's really only Chris Mortenson's initial report that claims that 11 out of 12 were significantly under.

This whole thing stinks and it may wind up that it's not the Pat's whose rep takes a hit.

[CommissarSpartacus]

The amusing thing is that the "it was only one ball" leak came out after Bob Kraft whined about the treatment his boys were getting in the media.

Uh huh. Its amusing that people will actually believe the updated story.


:rofl:

Only complete fools believe updated stories.

EVERYONE knows that the initial story is invariably correct.

Are you starting to get a little nervous now? What started as a "let's **** with shiva" prank is gonna wind up leaving you with egg on your face?

This is just another example of how virtue is it's own reward. It's what moonie doesn't get with his right-wing persona.

You can't argue FOR nefarious behavior without ultimately looking stupid. It's inevitable.

It's what Americans don't get - your vital interests do NOT come first.

[CommissarSpartacus]

If it was just one, I doubt anyone would have cared. You throw that ball out and move on.


WHO was the guy that IDed the ball to the refs and suggested ALL the balls should be checked?

Why would the refs suspect that because 1 ball was under, others may be under too and thus ALL balls should be checked?

[cookie G]

:rofl:

Only complete fools believe updated stories.

EVERYONE knows that the initial story is invariably correct.

Are you starting to get a little nervous now? What started as a "let's **** with shiva" prank is gonna wind up leaving you with egg on your face?

This is just another example of how virtue is it's own reward. It's what moonie doesn't get with his right-wing persona.

You can't argue FOR nefarious behavior without ultimately looking stupid. It's inevitable.

It's what Americans don't get - your vital interests do NOT come first.

Nervous that the NFL might gloss over this investigation with "new information"?

Please....most people had figured out on day one that it would happen just like that.

But please, continue looking at a probable whitewash as some vindication.

[Mr. Pink]

But meanwhile notice now that it's one ball significantly underinflated and the rest only a couple ticks away, it's no longer a big story anywhere? ESPN isn't talking about, NFL Network isn't really talking about it. Why?

Because the truth has come out, people like Mortenson will never admit they were wrong and people have made their judgements about the situation anyway. Plus ESPNTMZ is infallible and can do no wrong, except to Bills fans when they don't give the Bills any type of coverage.

Plus the truth isn't as exciting as the initial story and nobody hates the Colts. If the story was reversed and it was the Colts using underinflated balls the media would be all over the latest news saying the Pats were cheating again and underinflated the ball before handing it over to the NFL and the other 10 balls were inconsequentially just under regulations, which actually could be caused by weather conditions.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Nervous that the NFL might gloss over this investigation with "new information"?

You reject the possibility that new information would be exculpatory? Of course you do. We all know who the guilty party is, now don't we?


Please....most people had figured out on day one that it would happen just like that.

Most people are idiots. The Patriots are 1 team with 31 enemies. Is it surprising that everyone picked up a pitchfork?


But please, continue looking at a probable whitewash as some vindication.

Any outcome that exonerates the Pats must be a whitewash, huh? You gave them a fair trial so let's hang them before the lily livered start to have doubts...

[Mace]

But please, continue looking at a probable whitewash as some vindication.

The stupid rule about balls is going to be whitewashed imho.

Depending on how you look at the physics, they are still absolute. Balls submitted at absolute minimum and compliant, or balls submitted at maximum and compliant, are going to change on weather, though compliant when signed off on, becoming easily uncompliant, whether on purpose or not, through the course of the game.

The rule, should reflect how uncompliant a ball could possibly become in NFL conditions, and probably just state the balls need be at that midpoint, for both teams, start of game, and everyone uses the same pool of random balls, and not any team being responsible for them, but the league delivering the same damn stupid, universally generic freaking unprepared balls to everyone because that's just common sense and they should know it already.

[YardRat]

Really?

Then why not post it here in black and white?

Because you can google it, like I did...I even gave you the specific article of the constitution, so it is in black and white, here.

LOL...what a rationalization...'others were just a few ticks under'. It really doesn't matter how far under they were...they didn't comply, period, and that's the bottom line.

[Strongman]

The Colts' GM Ryan Grigson alerted the NFL. Troy Vincent confirmed that.

His Wikipedia page is interesting... He might be the only person cheated by them in 3 championship games:

Grigson was hired by the St. Louis Rams as a national scout in 1999. He was part of the Rams' Super Bowl XXXIV championship team in 1999 and the Rams' NFC Championship/Super Bowl XXXVI team in 2001 as an area scout.

On May 15, 2004, Grigson was hired by the Philadelphia Eagles as a western regional scout. He was a part of the Eagles' NFC Championship/Super Bowl XXXIX team in 2004. On June 8, 2006, he was promoted to director of college scouting,[1] and on February 3, 2010, he was promoted to director of player personnel.[6]

Grigson was hired by the Indianapolis Colts as their general manager on January 11, 2012. After a surprising 2012 season, which put the Colts back in the NFL Playoffs with an 11-5 record, Grigson earned Executive of the Year honors from the Sporting News [7] and Pro Football Weekly.[8] He also won the 2013 Drew Brees Mental Toughness Award from the Northwest Indiana Chapter of the National Football Foundation.[9] On January 11, 2015 -- Grigson's third anniversary with the team -- the Indianapolis Colts beat the Denver Broncos to qualify for the AFC Championship game against the New England Patriots.

[Mace]

The Colts' GM Ryan Grigson alerted the NFL. Troy Vincent confirmed that.

His Wikipedia page is interesting... He might be the only person cheated by them in 3 championship games:

Grigson was hired by the St. Louis Rams as a national scout in 1999. He was part of the Rams' Super Bowl XXXIV championship team in 1999 and the Rams' NFC Championship/Super Bowl XXXVI team in 2001 as an area scout.

On May 15, 2004, Grigson was hired by the Philadelphia Eagles as a western regional scout. He was a part of the Eagles' NFC Championship/Super Bowl XXXIX team in 2004. On June 8, 2006, he was promoted to director of college scouting,[1] and on February 3, 2010, he was promoted to director of player personnel.[6]

Grigson was hired by the Indianapolis Colts as their general manager on January 11, 2012. After a surprising 2012 season, which put the Colts back in the NFL Playoffs with an 11-5 record, Grigson earned Executive of the Year honors from the Sporting News [7] and Pro Football Weekly.[8] He also won the 2013 Drew Brees Mental Toughness Award from the Northwest Indiana Chapter of the National Football Foundation.[9] On January 11, 2015 -- Grigson's third anniversary with the team -- the Indianapolis Colts beat the Denver Broncos to qualify for the AFC Championship game against the New England Patriots.

No doubt.

But let's get to the bare bones argument, why isn't the NFL supplying generic compliant balls to both teams from a pool ?

[Strongman]

No doubt.

But let's get to the bare bones argument, why isn't the NFL supplying generic compliant balls to both teams from a pool ?

Because the NFL wanted to make their star players (Peyton and Brady) happy.

[Mace]

Because the NFL wanted to make their star players (Peyton and Brady) happy.

Yes yes, but also catered to Manziels, Leafs, Trent Edwards and Tim Tebows.

The whole thing has to end with league balls, which in their hunger for greenbacks, they should have already tapped. That they didn't already is hugely ridiculous. I don't know, maybe that was the league's marketing thought ? It looks stupid but really obvious.

Geez, I'm getting to think like Spartacus.

[Discotrish]

Of course, one must always believe the initial rush to judgement inflated claims over the actual truth. Especially when the original story is just so much more exciting than the actual truth. Or you know when the story is against a sports team you hate because they consistently beat the sports team you follow.

What's that about suckers?

Lemme guess Kraft strong armed the commish and league to whitewash Matt Walsh's story too?

You're starting to catch on!

Patti

[CommissarSpartacus]

Finally, after two weeks of closed mouths, it finally emerges that it was Grigson, THE COLTS GM, who apparently sent more than one complaint during the game to "league officials", telling them to check the balls the Pats were using.

And now we find out that only ONE ball was under-inflated significantly - the original ball the Colts gave to the officials to check.

Now, after 50 years of NFL history without ONE complaint about under-inflated balls, all of a sudden the COLTS GM, who gets nowhere near the field, "suspects" the balls are under and whines a number of times to the NFL about it?

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, you'd think the next logical question would be "Well Mr Grigson, HOW did you come to suspect the balls were under-inflated? id someone tip you off or did you just have a feeling about it?"

Well, he's not talking.

What are the odds that GRIGSON winds up with egg all over his face?

Could HE have arranged for someone to deflate the one ball before handing it to the refs?

One thing for sure, he hasn't made any friends with Bob Kraft and Billy B....

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-02-03/troy-vincent-confirms-colts-tip-started-deflate-gate

Troy Vincent confirms Colts' tip started Deflate-gate

Kirstie Chiappelli Perform Media

February 3, 2015 12:02pm EST

NFL football operations chief Troy Vincent confirmed that a tip from Colts general manager Ryan Grigson started the Deflate-gate controversy. Vincent asserted that Grigson contacted league officials about the Patriots using under-inflated balls throughout the AFC championship game.

In an interview with "60 Minutes Sports" that airs on Tuesday, Vincent reportedly claims that Grigson notified the league about the potential problem.

"Everything I'm sure is going to come out in the investigation, guys. Like I said, it's not appropriate for me to talk about. I can't do that," Grigson said on Jan. 23 when asked if he or anyone else in the Colts organization notified the league about the Patriots using deflated balls. "It's in the league's hands. I'm sorry."

...more...

[Topas]

Well, I am not sure what to believe. Is it now clear how many balls were underinflated? Only one?
I dont know.
Actually I would be almost sad if there is clear evidence that the Pats did not cheat.

But whatever comes out, how do you explain their low fumble rate after each team was allowed to use their own balls (insert joke here). Coincidence? Hard to believe ...

[BuffaloRedleg]

You are really in your troll glory right now I can see, can't wait to take that victory lap with your new BFF Bill Belicheat.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CommissarSpartacus]

Because you can google it, like I did...I even gave you the specific article of the constitution, so it is in black and white, here.

LOL...what a rationalization...'others were just a few ticks under'. It really doesn't matter how far under they were...they didn't comply, period, and that's the bottom line.

:rofl:

Okay, you got me. I thought you were being serious. Won't make that mistake again.

Carry on. Now that I know laughs are your target, I get it.

[CommissarSpartacus]

You are really in your troll glory right now I can see, can't wait to take that victory lap with your new BFF Bill Belicheat.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

C'mon, admit it, you were wrong.

What we have here is a guy who was wupped previously by BB trying to get revenge by arranging an embarrassing incident for the pats and an uncomfortable situation for Tom Brady DURING THE GAME.

Let me ask all the haters a question.

If it turns out that this is all a creation of Ryan Grigson and the Pats had nothing to do with it, are you going to go after the Colts with the same hysterical fervor as you did with the Pats?

Will you apologi2e if it turns out the Pats are 100% innocent?

[BuffaloRedleg]

C'mon, admit it, you were wrong.

What we have here is a guy who was wupped previously by BB trying to get revenge by arranging an embarrassing incident for the pats and an uncomfortable situation for Tom Brady DURING THE GAME.

Let me ask all the haters a question.

If it turns out that this is all a creation of Ryan Grigson and the Pats had nothing to do with it, are you going to go after the Colts with the same hysterical fervor as you did with the Pats?

Will you apologi2e if it turns out the Pats are 100% innocent?

Dude don't speculate as to what I think.

It's a ****ing game and it is fun to pile on the Patriots. Why are you obsessed with this white knight crusade for truth and justice in football? Are you trying to protect something? Are you that worried about people having fun with Patriots fans about it? They've been whooping us for years who cares if we get a shot in. It's all in good fun.

You've been drinking that "omg NFL is serious business" koolaide and that's the only thing all over anyone's face here.

[coastal]

11 of the 12 footballs were below the league minimum... one a full two pounds below.

[WagonCircler]

Dude don't speculate as to what I think.

It's a ****ing game and it is fun to pile on the Patriots. Why are you obsessed with this white knight crusade for truth and justice in football? Are you trying to protect something? Are you that worried about people having fun with Patriots fans about it? They've been whooping us for years who cares if we get a shot in. It's all in good fun.

You've been drinking that "omg NFL is serious business" koolaide and that's the only thing all over anyone's face here.

Canadians are pissed off at the NFL because they missed their one and only shot at having a team this year, so they're bats-it crazy with anger and striking out at the league at every opportunity.

[coastal]

Don Shula calls a spade a spade...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/08/don-shula-calls-bill-belichick-beli-cheat/

[CommissarSpartacus]

Dude don't speculate as to what I think.

It's a ****ing game and it is fun to pile on the Patriots. Why are you obsessed with this white knight crusade for truth and justice in football? Are you trying to protect something? Are you that worried about people having fun with Patriots fans about it? They've been whooping us for years who cares if we get a shot in. It's all in good fun.

You've been drinking that "omg NFL is serious business" koolaide and that's the only thing all over anyone's face here.

So, you admit that facts and the truth and sincere and intelligent discussion of the great game of football don't come into play here, it's all about letting your inner idiot run free?

Hey. I enjoy taking shots as much as the next guy as long as they're justified.

But while ragging on people and organi2ations for things that are UNTRUE might be fun for adolescent sociopaths, they aren't fun for everyone.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Don Shula calls a spade a spade...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/08/don-shula-calls-bill-belichick-beli-cheat/

Don Shula? Really? This is like the NRA using Chuck Heston to try to shut people up.

Pointing out the guys might be senile isn't very nice, so shut up stupid Lib/Pat/tards!

[better days]

NOTHING in the link you provided says only one ball was deflated.

More Pats* BS.

[coastal]

Don Shula? Really? This is like the NRA using Chuck Heston to try to shut people up.

Pointing out the guys might be senile isn't very nice, so shut up stupid Lib/Pat/tards!
I just KNEW you would go here.

And this isn't another example of your left v right meme.

One team cheats. It's just that simple.

[BuffaloRedleg]

So, you admit that facts and the truth and sincere and intelligent discussion of the great game of football don't come into play here, it's all about letting your inner idiot run free?

Hey. I enjoy taking shots as much as the next guy as long as they're justified.

But while ragging on people and organi2ations for things that are UNTRUE might be fun for adolescent sociopaths, they aren't fun for everyone.

However you want to paint it, your idealistic crusade to defend the honor of the Patriots is just as silly as the people who are busting Patriots fans balls about this incident.